Thanks, Cliff. Yes, Judaism has beliefs and traditions – not DNA. Middle Eastern characteristics are being discussed perhaps – not Jewish. There are Jewish people of all nationalities, of all inherited characteristics, so it seems a bit nonsensical to discuss a ‘Jewish’ hair colour, or eye colour gene. Numerous characteristics in our recent thread are recessive genes. The same recessive gene from both parents is needed to result in a particular characteristic. Red hair is a recessive gene, so are blue eyes. Cheers, Kathryn From: Cliff. Johnston [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 2 December 2013 6:05 AM To: nautakat; Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Yes, Judaism is a religion as used/developed by specific tribes or families of Semites in the Middle East initially. Technically, Christianity is a reformed Jewish movement. The pope still wears a yarmulke which is a Jewish tradition. Cliff. _____ From: nautakat <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Judaism is a religion, is it not???? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, 1 December 2013 4:38 AM To: Cliff. Johnston; iain.mcneill; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots You know, it never even occurred to me to point out that there are multiple known genes for red hair, and that the trait sporadically pops up in deepest Africa and among isolated tribes in the Pacific Ocean. I stuck to the history. Everyone knows that red hair was a Celtic trait as well as a Norse trait. If you won’t believe that, it seemed like there’s no point in mentioning they may not even have the same genes. Historically those groups are not as distinct as people want to think. Both have part Indo-European steppe people roots, and for much of their history the two peoples shared most of Europe. Most of northern, western and central Europe and some parts of Eastern Europe were once part of the Celtic empire, even modern Denmark. Celts were specifically drawn to Denmark by the amber trade, where they and native people formed a common elite along the western and southern shores of the Baltic sea. Their group extended into Scandinavia. Dora From: Cliff. Johnston Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 9:52 PM To: Dora Smith ; iain.mcneill ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Sometime ago I copied an article on red hair that also discusses other hair colors. If anyone would like a copy of it, email me privately, and I will send it to you as an attachment. Cliff. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dora Smith <[email protected]> To: iain.mcneill <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots I didn't know you all didn't realize how deeply the Norse penetrated into British Celtic territory. I thought red hair was being wrongly attributed to the Norse. The Norse are thought of has having red hair. Now, I frankly don't see a whole lot of red hair among photos of people in Scandinavia and Denmark; in fact, they're more likely to be medium to short and have dark skin and dark hair, that for some reason today is commonly associated with people of Scotch Irish stock in the eastern United States. Otherwise they are tall and good looking by English standards and have blonde or brown hair. It is possible that those who became Vikings were some subgroup of them. If as is thought the Norse are partially descended from relatively recent invaders from the Asian steppes, they could have maintained something of a warrior class, despite the fact that allegedly most Vikings were farmers whose homeland had run short of land. Two Y DNA haplogroups are common in Scandinavia, Indo-European R1a, and I1. I1 is a paleolithic haplogroup, it would be quite something if the people who bore it had any sort of bright colored hair, though I've an idea that in eastern Europe it became reddish early. Red hair has been a Celtic stereotype since ancient times, and is also a stereotype of certain Celtic subcultures such as Wiccan families. Dora --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

LOL. They came from the Middle East. In the 16th century BC, the predominant ethnic group was from Asia, but they had dark hair. Some Indo-Aryans did move in, but I don't know that they were blond and blue eyed, though one thing they markedly did was play the harp. The people we know as Jews were a blend of these people. What happened is that over the millenia, there was a lot of cross breeding. Jews were a fairly exclusive people. But Jewish women were often raped. They believe that this is why they still reckon descent through the woman. So blond and red hair are not Jewish traits, but they are definitely common among Jews. Nevertheless I don't think it's particularly rare for a Jew with red hair to get odd looks on some circles. It's hard to know what to completely make of Jewish DNA; something like half of all Jews have the mitochondrial DNA of four women who were definitely native to Eastern Europe and not the Middle East. The Jews passed through that area and spent some time there. I can't account for how the bloodlines of women who were not Jewish came to dominate their ethnic group. Clearly the non-Jewish roots of those women was soon forgotten! The presence of a Jewish family in my brother's Germanic Y DNA cluster proves that that woman didn't get her blond hair from the Middle East! Dora -----Original Message----- From: nautakat Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Thanks, Cliff. Yes, Judaism has beliefs and traditions – not DNA. Middle Eastern characteristics are being discussed perhaps – not Jewish. There are Jewish people of all nationalities, of all inherited characteristics, so it seems a bit nonsensical to discuss a ‘Jewish’ hair colour, or eye colour gene. Numerous characteristics in our recent thread are recessive genes. The same recessive gene from both parents is needed to result in a particular characteristic. Red hair is a recessive gene, so are blue eyes. Cheers, Kathryn From: Cliff. Johnston [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, 2 December 2013 6:05 AM To: nautakat; Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Yes, Judaism is a religion as used/developed by specific tribes or families of Semites in the Middle East initially. Technically, Christianity is a reformed Jewish movement. The pope still wears a yarmulke which is a Jewish tradition. Cliff. _____ From: nautakat <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2013 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Judaism is a religion, is it not???? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dora Smith Sent: Sunday, 1 December 2013 4:38 AM To: Cliff. Johnston; iain.mcneill; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots You know, it never even occurred to me to point out that there are multiple known genes for red hair, and that the trait sporadically pops up in deepest Africa and among isolated tribes in the Pacific Ocean. I stuck to the history. Everyone knows that red hair was a Celtic trait as well as a Norse trait. If you won’t believe that, it seemed like there’s no point in mentioning they may not even have the same genes. Historically those groups are not as distinct as people want to think. Both have part Indo-European steppe people roots, and for much of their history the two peoples shared most of Europe. Most of northern, western and central Europe and some parts of Eastern Europe were once part of the Celtic empire, even modern Denmark. Celts were specifically drawn to Denmark by the amber trade, where they and native people formed a common elite along the western and southern shores of the Baltic sea. Their group extended into Scandinavia. Dora From: Cliff. Johnston Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 9:52 PM To: Dora Smith ; iain.mcneill ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots Sometime ago I copied an article on red hair that also discusses other hair colors. If anyone would like a copy of it, email me privately, and I will send it to you as an attachment. Cliff. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dora Smith <[email protected]> To: iain.mcneill <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Viking red-haired roots I didn't know you all didn't realize how deeply the Norse penetrated into British Celtic territory. I thought red hair was being wrongly attributed to the Norse. The Norse are thought of has having red hair. Now, I frankly don't see a whole lot of red hair among photos of people in Scandinavia and Denmark; in fact, they're more likely to be medium to short and have dark skin and dark hair, that for some reason today is commonly associated with people of Scotch Irish stock in the eastern United States. Otherwise they are tall and good looking by English standards and have blonde or brown hair. It is possible that those who became Vikings were some subgroup of them. If as is thought the Norse are partially descended from relatively recent invaders from the Asian steppes, they could have maintained something of a warrior class, despite the fact that allegedly most Vikings were farmers whose homeland had run short of land. Two Y DNA haplogroups are common in Scandinavia, Indo-European R1a, and I1. I1 is a paleolithic haplogroup, it would be quite something if the people who bore it had any sort of bright colored hair, though I've an idea that in eastern Europe it became reddish early. Red hair has been a Celtic stereotype since ancient times, and is also a stereotype of certain Celtic subcultures such as Wiccan families. Dora --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com