> 1. In this timeframe, how likely was it for the son of an > innkeeper in > Kirkcudbright to become a Calton weaver? I think it is quite > possible, and also > quite possible for weavers to have become > coal miners in the mid 19th- > century, but I would like to ask for the opinions of list > members. It's possible. > 2. Why can I not find the baptism of James McMunn born 1842? The most likely reason is because his baptism was not recorded, or if it was, the record has not survived. > Nor can I find James McMunn/McMinn's purported siblings born > between > 1833 and 1850. My sense is that perhaps James and his family > were "Free > Church" and so their records are not available on SP. The Free Church could be part of the reason, but it cannot account for all of the omissions because it did not exist until 1843. > Does this mean I must consult a private researcher? Possibly. I take it that you have checked the Roman Catholic records on SP? You don't say which records yielded which information, but as James was married in Scotland, it is far more likely that this marriage certificate gives the correct names for his parents than some random online tree of whose accuracy you have no guarantee. However it is still not impossible for information in marriage certificates to be wrong, especially if the informant is unable to read and write and thus to check the detail. The 1851 census record for 23 Quarry Street, Hamilton, confirms some of your information. In particular it lists James McMunn as aged 8, which is one year less than he would have been on census day if he was born on 8 February 1842 - he would have had his ninth birthday two months before the day of the census. It also lists William McMunn as born in Glasgow and aged 42, which corresponds to a birth in 1808/9. The index to the 1861 census lists William, 52; Jane, 50; Jane, 28; James, 18; Ann, 15 and John 11, all still in Hamilton. Therefore you should be able to get William's death certificate and check the names of his parents (always bearing in mind that informants may not always know the names of the parents of the deceased). As for the previous generation, I think you are right to be wary of the supposed descent from David McMinn. I see that the IGI (a useful pointer, but not to be trusted as authoritative - you need to check the original documents from which the information is taken) lists the date of death of William McMunn, son of William McMunn and Ann Newton, as 8 September 1865. Have you got this death certificate? It also says that his brother John, born 1809, died on 20 August 1889, and that both of his parents were born in 1790 and died in 1850. Also that they married in 1809, which doesn't tally with the date you have. Unfortunately the oldest William McMinn in the 1841 census according to FreeCEN is aged 40, a ship carpenter in Barony (Glasgow) but not born in Lanarkshire. The oldest William McMunn is yours, age given as 31, born in Lanarkshire. There is a 50-year-old William McMin, a mason, in Borgue, Kirkcudbrightshire, who might just be old enough to be the father of your William, but his wife is Margaret, his occupation differs significantly, and he isn't in Glasgow. So unless you can find another William McMunn aged at least 50 (because if he was married in 1806 he must have been at least 16, and was very probably older still) in another transcription (I am using FreeCEN) the supposed death date of 1850 doesn't look convincing. In fact, for a weaver marrying in Glasgow in 1806, I'd be looking for a birth more like 1775/80, and certainly no later than 1785, because it is very unlikely that a 16-year-old weaver, probably still an apprentice at that age, would be able to support a wife and family. If I were to speculate, I would lean towards William McMin, son of John McMin and Margaret Easton, born 17 November 1774 in the Gorbals. But I would want evidence to back that up. If you have fully explored the Church of Scotland and Roman Catholic records on SP, you might try the records of other denominations. Many if not most of these are in the National Archives of Scotland, catalogue reference starting CH3/ - but noy including the Free Church as it came into existence too late. These records have been digitised but you have to go to Edinburgh (or another archive with access to them, for example Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness, and probably others) to see them, so this would probably involve engaging a professional searcher. You would certainly need a professional if you wanted to track down and check stray registers of the minority churches, or the records of the Episcopal Church, which are all over the place - some are in the churches, some in diocesan archives, some in university archives and some in local archives. HTH Best wishes Anne

Many thanks, Anne, for all the very useful suggestions. I will be following them up. I would just add that I have the copy of an irregular marriage for William McMinn, weaver, and Ann Newton, 2 Jul 1806 (Barony) which follows the birth of a first son John, 20 May 1806/baptism 13 Jul 1806. It does, however, precede the birth of the William McMinn I am interested in (to William McMinn, weaver, Calton and Ann Newton --1 Nov 1808). William McMinn born 1808, married Jane Lamont 4 Jul 1832 Airdrie or New Monkland did indeed die 8 Sep 1865 in Hamilton, Lanark with son James McMunn as informant, and his parents are recorded as William McMunn and Ann McMunn (MS Newton). Given the "irregular marriage" of William McMinn and Ann Newton 2 Jul 1806, I think it is reasonable to conclude that the birth dates of their children, or at least that of the eldest child John, may have been fudged over the years. Apologies for not posting more detail. I didn't want to overload people, but I do have quite a few OPR and Statutory records as well as Census records. I think it is clear that since I find no one by the name of David in my branch of the McMunns/McMinns (the mean are always James, John, Thomas and William/Bill), I should write off David McMinn, the innkeeper of Auchencairn, Kirkcudbright as an ancestor. Thanks again. Carolyn

> Given the "irregular marriage" of William McMinn and Ann > Newton 2 Jul 1806, > I think it is reasonable to conclude that > the birth dates of their children, or at > least that of the eldest child John, may have been fudged over > the years. If it is the parish register record of the marriage, bear in mind that the wedding ceremeny, whatever form it took, couls have taken place some time before the parish caught up with it. The date in the register might be the date when the fact of the irregular marriage was entered in the register rather than the date it took place. I don't think there is any particular reason to 'fudge' the baptism dates. > I think it is clear that since I find no one by the name of > David in my branch of > the McMunns/McMinns (the mean are always James, John, Thomas > and > William/Bill), I should write off David McMinn, the innkeeper > of Auchencairn, > Kirkcudbright as an ancestor. I would certainly store him in the dustiest pigeonhole available for the present. Anne