Maisie, If you go to the Virtual Mitchell Street Search, Great Eastern Road is listed. Click on the road name and you will see photos, including a 1903 image of No. 615. http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/index.php?a=street&s=gallery&key=rYToxOntpOjA7czoxNjoiR3JlYXQgRWFzdGVybiBSZCI7fQ== Kind Regards, iain McKenzie On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Maisie Egger <campsiehills@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > A forebear died at 400 Great Eastern Road, Glasgow. I can’t quite put my > finger on where this road could be as Great Western Road is far more > familiar to Glaswegians. Obviously it runs east, but from where to where, > and was it in a lower income area, unlike Great Western Road? > > Maisie > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

George, whilst trying to track down why my Spence potter forebear ended up living in Great Eastern Road, Parkhead/Camlachie area of Glasgow, I went to Google to read more about the Annfield Pottery, which was likely within walking distance of where William Spence worked...all conjecture, of course, as I do not for a fact that he was employed there. Most of my Hillcoat/Spence ‘lot’ worked in potteries in Glasgow and Rutherglen. Anyway, this link enlightens one on the awful conditions in which pottery workers worked and perhaps excuses why my great-grandfather died of excess spirits coma...or moroculous as they used to say in Glasgow. http://www.bellsglasgowpottery.com/fileuploads/Bells%20Chapter%2009.pdf Maisie

Ah, ha, Linda, I see Annfield Pottery is not too far from Great Eastern Road. My forebear had worked in potteries in Glasgow and Rutherglen, so this makes sense of why he might have moved to Great Eastern Road IF he did find work in the Annfield Pottery. More little pieces to put together. Thanks for that very good map. Maisie -----Original Message----- From: Linda Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 3:29 PM To: lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] 400 Great Eastern Rd., location Hi Maisie The Great Eastern Road ran between Gallowgate and Tollcross Road, according to the 1913-14 Valuation Roll. You can find the ward map (no. 3) at http://www.theglasgowstory.com/ward-maps/?ward=3 Kind regards, Linda -----Original Message----- From: LANARK [mailto:lanark-bounces+kiwikin=ihug.co.nz@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maisie Egger Sent: Monday, August 15, 2016 5:25 AM To: LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Lanark] 400 Great Eastern Rd., location A forebear died at 400 Great Eastern Road, Glasgow. I can’t quite put my finger on where this road could be as Great Western Road is far more familiar to Glaswegians. Obviously it runs east, but from where to where, and was it in a lower income area, unlike Great Western Road? Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Johnson To: SCT-RENFREW-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2016 1:06 PM Subject: Apology Dear listers , My sincere apologies for the virus unknowingly spread by me , i think i may have received it from an authentic looking email with attachment, went against past history and trusted instinct wih dire results, had to ditch every thing , but remembered to write by hand all my contacts from address book . i hope no one opened any virus email from me , if so please contact me . I am now virus free and have updated my Norton anti virus and will do so weekly . Kind regards, Brian Johnson (Johno) bjohnson3@vtown.com.au

A forebear died at 400 Great Eastern Road, Glasgow. I can’t quite put my finger on where this road could be as Great Western Road is far more familiar to Glaswegians. Obviously it runs east, but from where to where, and was it in a lower income area, unlike Great Western Road? Maisie

Wow, thanks Anne. I doubt if I would have thought of that. I'll look for the US records for Rensselaer, NY and hopefully will have some luck. Thanks again. Laurette _____ From: Anne Burgess [mailto:anne.listmail@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, August 5, 2016 5:48 PM To: L Gerholt; ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] PENMAN family Hmmm. I looked for Jane's and Charles' births. There is a possible Charles: Charles Daniel Bell, born 10 May 1869 in Glasgow, parents Charles Bell and Helen Dempster. However I didn't find a likely Jane. Charles Bell and Helen Dempster were married in Glasgow on 18 February 1869. How one gets from there to the family in Troy, NY I have trouble imagining. Unless both Helen Penman and Charles Bell died, and the widowed Daniel married the widowed Helen Dempster or Bell and her children took his surname. However There are no deaths of either Helen in the Scottish records, and there is no marriage of Daniel Thomson to Helen Dempster or Bell. Nor would this explain Jane, or the absence of Helen jr and George from the 1880 census. You really need to find some US records to confirm that you have the right people.Unfortunately I can't help with US records - I believe that they are collected on a county rather than on a state basis, so I suppose you'd need to find out where the birth records for Rensselaer County are, and whether you can access them. Anne _____ From: L Gerholt <laurettekg@bigpond.com> To: 'Anne Burgess' <anne.listmail@btinternet.com>; ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 12:50 Subject: RE: [Lanark] PENMAN family I believe you're correct Anne, but I just couldn't see it because both males were in the iron industry, and some of the children's names had me quite confused. I haven't found a good BDM site for New York as yet, but I did find a headstone for the other Daniel, and when I looked closer his wife's name was there, and it was Dempster. Back to the drawing boards. I've been looking for them on the 1881 Census, without luck. I guess I'll start looking at passenger lists again. Can you think of anywhere else I should be looking? Thanks so much for your help. Laurette ________________________________ From: Anne Burgess [mailto:anne.listmail@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:32 PM To: L Gerholt; ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] PENMAN family I am not convinced that this is the same family at all. Helen jr should be listed, aged 13, and George, aged 11. Assuming their ages in that census are accurate Jane, aged 12, would have been born between 11 Jun 1867 and 10 June 1868, and Charles, aged 10, between 11 June 1868 and 10 June 1869 (as the census date was 10 June 1880). This would mean that Helen had had four successful pregnancies in 37 months; and Charles' age is incompatible with George's date of birth. If I were you I would look for the birth or baptism of one of the four children born in New York, and see what the mother's maiden surname was. Unless Helen Jr is listed in the census as Jane and George is listed as Charles, in spite of their ages being wrong. Were Jane and Charles listed with Daniel, Helen sr, Helen Jr and George in the 1871 census in Scotland? Have you looked in the 1871 census of Scotland for a Jane and Charles Thom(p)son* in the same household and both aged under 4 years? *The commoner spelling of this surname in Scotland is Thomson; Thompson with the 'p' is commoner in England. Of course spelling is largely unimportant before about 1900. Anne ________________________________ From: L Gerholt via <lanark@rootsweb.com> To: ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 4:12 Subject: [Lanark] PENMAN family Hi Ruth I appreciate your offer and I would certainly like to find out more of my ggrandmother's sister's family. Her name was Helen Baxter PENMAN, born 17 Sep 1847 at 16 Marshall Street, Glasgow. Her parents were William PENMAN and Helen DRUMMOND. Helen PENMAN married Daniel THOMSON (an Iron worker) on 14 Jul 1865 at Calton. I can only find them up until the 1871 Census in Glasgow, from there they appear on the 1880 Census at Troy, Rensselaer, New York. I have no idea when they left Glasgow, nor when they arrived in NY. The following children were born in Glasgow: Helen Drummond THOMSON born 11 Oct 1866 Glasgow - have BC nothing further. George THOMSON born 31 Jan 1869 Bridgeton - have BC nothing further. Daniel THOMSON born 4 Mar 1874 Calton, died 24 Apr 1875 Calton - have both certificates On the 1880 NY Census there is mention of a Jane THOMSON, 12yo female, at home, born Scotland, but I'm unable to find that birth. On the same Census there is mention of a son, Charles THOMSON, 11yo, at school, born Scotland, can't find that birth either. The following are the remaining family members on the same Census: Daniel THOMPSON, 34yo married male, works in Iron Works, born Scotland Ellen, wife, 32yo married female, keeping house, born Scotland George, son, 7yo male, born New York Isabella, daughter, 5yo female, born New York Catharine, daughter, 2yo female, born New York Annie, daughter, 4mo female, born New York I may or may not have two families mixed up, but I can't find any further mention of them in Scotland. Any help would be gratefully received. Laurette ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

< http://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2016/08/05/jamie-stuart-glasgow-bible-author--obituary/ > The bible translated into "pure Glaswegian". Regards and Enjoy! -- *Edward*

Hmmm. I looked for Jane's and Charles' births. There is a possible Charles: Charles Daniel Bell, born 10 May 1869 in Glasgow, parents Charles Bell and Helen Dempster. However I didn't find a likely Jane. Charles Bell and Helen Dempster were married in Glasgow on 18 February 1869. How one gets from there to the family in Troy, NY I have trouble imagining. Unless both Helen Penman and Charles Bell died, and the widowed Daniel married the widowed Helen Dempster or Bell and her children took his surname. However There are no deaths of either Helen in the Scottish records, and there is no marriage of Daniel Thomson to Helen Dempster or Bell.  Nor would this explain Jane, or the absence of Helen jr and George from the 1880 census. You really need to find some US records to confirm that you have the right people.Unfortunately I can't help with US records - I believe that they are collected on a county rather than on a state basis, so I suppose you'd need to find out where the birth records for Rensselaer County are, and whether you can access them. Anne From: L Gerholt <laurettekg@bigpond.com> To: 'Anne Burgess' <anne.listmail@btinternet.com>; ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 12:50 Subject: RE: [Lanark] PENMAN family I believe you're correct Anne, but I just couldn't see it because both males were in the iron industry, and some of the children's names had me quite confused.  I haven't found a good BDM site for New York as yet, but I did find a headstone for the other Daniel, and when I looked closer his wife's name was there, and it was Dempster. Back to the drawing boards.  I've been looking for them on the 1881 Census, without luck.  I guess I'll start looking at passenger lists again.  Can you think of anywhere else I should be looking?  Thanks so much for your help. Laurette ________________________________ From: Anne Burgess [mailto:anne.listmail@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:32 PM To: L Gerholt; ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] PENMAN family I am not convinced that this is the same family at all. Helen jr should be listed, aged 13, and George, aged 11. Assuming their ages in that census are accurate Jane, aged 12, would have been born between 11 Jun 1867 and 10 June 1868, and Charles, aged 10, between 11 June 1868 and 10 June 1869 (as the census date was 10 June 1880). This would mean that Helen had had four successful pregnancies in 37 months; and Charles' age is incompatible with George's date of birth. If I were you I would look for the birth or baptism of one of the four children born in New York, and see what the mother's maiden surname was. Unless Helen Jr is listed in the census as Jane and George is listed as Charles, in spite of their ages being wrong. Were Jane and Charles listed with Daniel, Helen sr, Helen Jr and George in the 1871 census in Scotland? Have you looked in the 1871 census of Scotland for a Jane and Charles Thom(p)son* in the same household and both aged under 4 years? *The commoner spelling of this surname in Scotland is Thomson; Thompson with the 'p' is commoner in England. Of course spelling is largely unimportant before about 1900. Anne ________________________________ From: L Gerholt via <lanark@rootsweb.com> To: ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 4:12 Subject: [Lanark] PENMAN family Hi Ruth I appreciate your offer and I would certainly like to find out more of my ggrandmother's sister's family.  Her name was Helen Baxter PENMAN, born 17 Sep 1847 at 16 Marshall Street, Glasgow.  Her parents were William PENMAN and Helen DRUMMOND.  Helen PENMAN married Daniel THOMSON (an Iron worker) on 14 Jul 1865 at Calton. I can only find them up until the 1871 Census in Glasgow, from there they appear on the 1880 Census at Troy, Rensselaer, New York.  I have no idea when they left Glasgow, nor when they arrived in NY. The following children were born in Glasgow: Helen Drummond THOMSON born 11 Oct 1866 Glasgow - have BC nothing further. George THOMSON born 31 Jan 1869 Bridgeton - have BC nothing further. Daniel THOMSON born 4 Mar 1874 Calton, died 24 Apr 1875 Calton - have both certificates On the 1880 NY Census there is mention of a Jane THOMSON, 12yo female, at home, born Scotland, but I'm unable to find that birth. On the same Census there is mention of a son, Charles THOMSON, 11yo, at school, born Scotland, can't find that birth either. The following are the remaining family members on the same Census: Daniel THOMPSON, 34yo married male, works in Iron Works, born Scotland Ellen, wife, 32yo married female, keeping house, born Scotland George, son, 7yo male, born New York Isabella, daughter, 5yo female, born New York Catharine, daughter, 2yo female, born New York Annie, daughter, 4mo female, born New York I may or may not have two families mixed up, but I can't find any further mention of them in Scotland. Any help would be gratefully received. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: ruth.enns@shaw.ca [mailto:ruth.enns@shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 1:33 PM To: L Gerholt; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] FW: Single mothers Laurette: Just a wild guess, but I feel the Father of the child, perhaps  did not even know your  ggrandmother was pregnant. In those days she may have run off in shame, poor girl. If you want to share his name, perhaps some of these super sleuths can find him on a Census, if they knew a name . place, & approximate date. You may consider sharing her name & her sister's name. People on the Lanark List are not judgmental, they just want to help each other solve family mysteries. Most of us have skeletons in our family closets. Ruth ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I believe you're correct Anne, but I just couldn't see it because both males were in the iron industry, and some of the children's names had me quite confused. I haven't found a good BDM site for New York as yet, but I did find a headstone for the other Daniel, and when I looked closer his wife's name was there, and it was Dempster. Back to the drawing boards. I've been looking for them on the 1881 Census, without luck. I guess I'll start looking at passenger lists again. Can you think of anywhere else I should be looking? Thanks so much for your help. Laurette ________________________________ From: Anne Burgess [mailto:anne.listmail@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:32 PM To: L Gerholt; ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] PENMAN family I am not convinced that this is the same family at all. Helen jr should be listed, aged 13, and George, aged 11. Assuming their ages in that census are accurate Jane, aged 12, would have been born between 11 Jun 1867 and 10 June 1868, and Charles, aged 10, between 11 June 1868 and 10 June 1869 (as the census date was 10 June 1880). This would mean that Helen had had four successful pregnancies in 37 months; and Charles' age is incompatible with George's date of birth. If I were you I would look for the birth or baptism of one of the four children born in New York, and see what the mother's maiden surname was. Unless Helen Jr is listed in the census as Jane and George is listed as Charles, in spite of their ages being wrong. Were Jane and Charles listed with Daniel, Helen sr, Helen Jr and George in the 1871 census in Scotland? Have you looked in the 1871 census of Scotland for a Jane and Charles Thom(p)son* in the same household and both aged under 4 years? *The commoner spelling of this surname in Scotland is Thomson; Thompson with the 'p' is commoner in England. Of course spelling is largely unimportant before about 1900. Anne ________________________________ From: L Gerholt via <lanark@rootsweb.com> To: ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 4:12 Subject: [Lanark] PENMAN family Hi Ruth I appreciate your offer and I would certainly like to find out more of my ggrandmother's sister's family. Her name was Helen Baxter PENMAN, born 17 Sep 1847 at 16 Marshall Street, Glasgow. Her parents were William PENMAN and Helen DRUMMOND. Helen PENMAN married Daniel THOMSON (an Iron worker) on 14 Jul 1865 at Calton. I can only find them up until the 1871 Census in Glasgow, from there they appear on the 1880 Census at Troy, Rensselaer, New York. I have no idea when they left Glasgow, nor when they arrived in NY. The following children were born in Glasgow: Helen Drummond THOMSON born 11 Oct 1866 Glasgow - have BC nothing further. George THOMSON born 31 Jan 1869 Bridgeton - have BC nothing further. Daniel THOMSON born 4 Mar 1874 Calton, died 24 Apr 1875 Calton - have both certificates On the 1880 NY Census there is mention of a Jane THOMSON, 12yo female, at home, born Scotland, but I'm unable to find that birth. On the same Census there is mention of a son, Charles THOMSON, 11yo, at school, born Scotland, can't find that birth either. The following are the remaining family members on the same Census: Daniel THOMPSON, 34yo married male, works in Iron Works, born Scotland Ellen, wife, 32yo married female, keeping house, born Scotland George, son, 7yo male, born New York Isabella, daughter, 5yo female, born New York Catharine, daughter, 2yo female, born New York Annie, daughter, 4mo female, born New York I may or may not have two families mixed up, but I can't find any further mention of them in Scotland. Any help would be gratefully received. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: ruth.enns@shaw.ca [mailto:ruth.enns@shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 1:33 PM To: L Gerholt; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] FW: Single mothers Laurette: Just a wild guess, but I feel the Father of the child, perhaps did not even know your ggrandmother was pregnant. In those days she may have run off in shame, poor girl. If you want to share his name, perhaps some of these super sleuths can find him on a Census, if they knew a name . place, & approximate date. You may consider sharing her name & her sister's name. People on the Lanark List are not judgmental, they just want to help each other solve family mysteries. Most of us have skeletons in our family closets. Ruth ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Marie, I was in touch with them last year and there's still no mention of this side of the family on there. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: Marie Simpson [mailto:mesdts@bigpond.net.au] Sent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:32 PM To: L Gerholt; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] PENMAN family Laureate, I'm away from home at the moment otherwise I would look for you but have a look at the Penman One Name studies and see if she or one of her family is listed. All the best Marie

Laureate, I'm away from home at the moment otherwise I would look for you but have a look at the Penman One Name studies and see if she or one of her family is listed. All the best Marie

Hi Ruth I appreciate your offer and I would certainly like to find out more of my ggrandmother's sister's family. Her name was Helen Baxter PENMAN, born 17 Sep 1847 at 16 Marshall Street, Glasgow. Her parents were William PENMAN and Helen DRUMMOND. Helen PENMAN married Daniel THOMSON (an Iron worker) on 14 Jul 1865 at Calton. I can only find them up until the 1871 Census in Glasgow, from there they appear on the 1880 Census at Troy, Rensselaer, New York. I have no idea when they left Glasgow, nor when they arrived in NY. The following children were born in Glasgow: Helen Drummond THOMSON born 11 Oct 1866 Glasgow - have BC nothing further. George THOMSON born 31 Jan 1869 Bridgeton - have BC nothing further. Daniel THOMSON born 4 Mar 1874 Calton, died 24 Apr 1875 Calton - have both certificates On the 1880 NY Census there is mention of a Jane THOMSON, 12yo female, at home, born Scotland, but I'm unable to find that birth. On the same Census there is mention of a son, Charles THOMSON, 11yo, at school, born Scotland, can't find that birth either. The following are the remaining family members on the same Census: Daniel THOMPSON, 34yo married male, works in Iron Works, born Scotland Ellen, wife, 32yo married female, keeping house, born Scotland George, son, 7yo male, born New York Isabella, daughter, 5yo female, born New York Catharine, daughter, 2yo female, born New York Annie, daughter, 4mo female, born New York I may or may not have two families mixed up, but I can't find any further mention of them in Scotland. Any help would be gratefully received. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: ruth.enns@shaw.ca [mailto:ruth.enns@shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 1:33 PM To: L Gerholt; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] FW: Single mothers Laurette: Just a wild guess, but I feel the Father of the child, perhaps did not even know your ggrandmother was pregnant. In those days she may have run off in shame, poor girl. If you want to share his name, perhaps some of these super sleuths can find him on a Census, if they knew a name . place, & approximate date. You may consider sharing her name & her sister's name. People on the Lanark List are not judgmental, they just want to help each other solve family mysteries. Most of us have skeletons in our family closets. Ruth ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am not convinced that this is the same family at all. Helen jr should be listed, aged 13, and George, aged 11. Assuming their ages in that census are accurate Jane, aged 12, would have been born between 11 Jun 1867 and 10 June 1868, and Charles, aged 10, between 11 June 1868 and 10 June 1869 (as the census date was 10 June 1880). This would mean that Helen had had four successful pregnancies in 37 months; and Charles' age is incompatible with George's date of birth. If I were you I would look for the birth or baptism of one of the four children born in New York, and see what the mother's maiden surname was. Unless Helen Jr is listed in the census as Jane and George is listed as Charles, in spite of their ages being wrong. Were Jane and Charles listed with Daniel, Helen sr, Helen Jr and George in the 1871 census in Scotland? Have you looked in the 1871 census of Scotland for a Jane and Charles Thom(p)son* in the same household and both aged under 4 years? *The commoner spelling of this surname in Scotland is Thomson; Thompson with the 'p' is commoner in England. Of course spelling is largely unimportant before about 1900. Anne From: L Gerholt via <lanark@rootsweb.com> To: ruth.enns@shaw.ca; lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2016, 4:12 Subject: [Lanark] PENMAN family Hi Ruth I appreciate your offer and I would certainly like to find out more of my ggrandmother's sister's family.  Her name was Helen Baxter PENMAN, born 17 Sep 1847 at 16 Marshall Street, Glasgow.  Her parents were William PENMAN and Helen DRUMMOND.  Helen PENMAN married Daniel THOMSON (an Iron worker) on 14 Jul 1865 at Calton. I can only find them up until the 1871 Census in Glasgow, from there they appear on the 1880 Census at Troy, Rensselaer, New York.  I have no idea when they left Glasgow, nor when they arrived in NY. The following children were born in Glasgow: Helen Drummond THOMSON born 11 Oct 1866 Glasgow - have BC nothing further. George THOMSON born 31 Jan 1869 Bridgeton - have BC nothing further. Daniel THOMSON born 4 Mar 1874 Calton, died 24 Apr 1875 Calton - have both certificates On the 1880 NY Census there is mention of a Jane THOMSON, 12yo female, at home, born Scotland, but I'm unable to find that birth. On the same Census there is mention of a son, Charles THOMSON, 11yo, at school, born Scotland, can't find that birth either. The following are the remaining family members on the same Census: Daniel THOMPSON, 34yo married male, works in Iron Works, born Scotland Ellen, wife, 32yo married female, keeping house, born Scotland George, son, 7yo male, born New York Isabella, daughter, 5yo female, born New York Catharine, daughter, 2yo female, born New York Annie, daughter, 4mo female, born New York I may or may not have two families mixed up, but I can't find any further mention of them in Scotland. Any help would be gratefully received. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: ruth.enns@shaw.ca [mailto:ruth.enns@shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 1:33 PM To: L Gerholt; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] FW: Single mothers Laurette: Just a wild guess, but I feel the Father of the child, perhaps  did not even know your  ggrandmother was pregnant. In those days she may have run off in shame, poor girl. If you want to share his name, perhaps some of these super sleuths can find him on a Census, if they knew a name . place, & approximate date. You may consider sharing her name & her sister's name. People on the Lanark List are not judgmental, they just want to help each other solve family mysteries. Most of us have skeletons in our family closets. Ruth ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I omitted to send this to the list as well as Irene. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: L Gerholt [mailto:laurettekg@bigpond.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 9:24 AM To: 'Irene Macleod' Subject: RE: [Lanark] Single mothers Hi Irene I did try to find the father, but all I had to go on was what my ggrandmother had stated on the Birth Certificate, so I didn't get very far. I imagine being pregnant and single is what forced her to make that decision. But after having another five children, two of them died before her, one at 29yo and the other at 19yo. With all that she went through, I hope she had some happiness in her life. Thank you. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: Irene Macleod [mailto:lowlandscot@sky.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 5:26 PM To: L Gerholt Subject: Re: [Lanark] Single mothers Hi Laurette Did you trace the father of the baby? Was he free to marry her? If he was and didn't perhaps she decided there was nothing to keep her in Scotland and she reckoned she'd have a better life in Australia. Pre-marital pregnancy was frowned on by the church but tolerated when followed by marriage. Lack of marriage probably encouraged moving to another area when a girl could pretend she was a widow. Irene Sent from my iPhone > On 2 Aug 2016, at 02:37, L Gerholt via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hi John > > Thanks for your input. I doubt if I will ever find the answer. She > would have met her future husband in Brisbane, no relatives that I can > find to date. I don't know if being single and pregnant was something > to be ashamed of hence her departure. Her only living relative, her > sister, married in Glasgow and moved to New York. I really don't > think they knew each other, and my ggrandmother never knew her real > surname, it took me ages to track that one down. > > Laurette > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean & John Johnston [mailto:jeanjohn@xtra.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 5:22 AM > To: L Gerholt; Lanarkshire Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Lanark] Single mothers > > Hello Laurette, > > A sad story, as you say. > > Your great gran was seeking a better life no doubt. Perhaps she was > accompanying the man she married, was going to stay with friends or > relatives in Australia, or possibly was indentured to work there. > > Regards, > > John > > > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Laurette: Just a wild guess, but I feel the Father of the child, perhaps did not even know your ggrandmother was pregnant. In those days she may have run off in shame, poor girl. If you want to share his name, perhaps some of these super sleuths can find him on a Census, if they knew a name . place, & approximate date. You may consider sharing her name & her sister's name. People on the Lanark List are not judgmental, they just want to help each other solve family mysteries. Most of us have skeletons in our family closets. Ruth -----Original Message----- From: L Gerholt via Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 6:32 PM To: 'Lanarkshire Mailing List' Subject: [Lanark] FW: Single mothers I omitted to send this to the list as well as Irene. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: L Gerholt [mailto:laurettekg@bigpond.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 9:24 AM To: 'Irene Macleod' Subject: RE: [Lanark] Single mothers Hi Irene I did try to find the father, but all I had to go on was what my ggrandmother had stated on the Birth Certificate, so I didn't get very far. I imagine being pregnant and single is what forced her to make that decision. But after having another five children, two of them died before her, one at 29yo and the other at 19yo. With all that she went through, I hope she had some happiness in her life. Thank you. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: Irene Macleod [mailto:lowlandscot@sky.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 5:26 PM To: L Gerholt Subject: Re: [Lanark] Single mothers Hi Laurette Did you trace the father of the baby? Was he free to marry her? If he was and didn't perhaps she decided there was nothing to keep her in Scotland and she reckoned she'd have a better life in Australia. Pre-marital pregnancy was frowned on by the church but tolerated when followed by marriage. Lack of marriage probably encouraged moving to another area when a girl could pretend she was a widow. Irene Sent from my iPhone > On 2 Aug 2016, at 02:37, L Gerholt via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hi John > > Thanks for your input. I doubt if I will ever find the answer. She > would have met her future husband in Brisbane, no relatives that I can > find to date. I don't know if being single and pregnant was something > to be ashamed of hence her departure. Her only living relative, her > sister, married in Glasgow and moved to New York. I really don't > think they knew each other, and my ggrandmother never knew her real > surname, it took me ages to track that one down. > > Laurette > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean & John Johnston [mailto:jeanjohn@xtra.co.nz] > Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 5:22 AM > To: L Gerholt; Lanarkshire Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Lanark] Single mothers > > Hello Laurette, > > A sad story, as you say. > > Your great gran was seeking a better life no doubt. Perhaps she was > accompanying the man she married, was going to stay with friends or > relatives in Australia, or possibly was indentured to work there. > > Regards, > > John > > > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi John Thanks for your input. I doubt if I will ever find the answer. She would have met her future husband in Brisbane, no relatives that I can find to date. I don't know if being single and pregnant was something to be ashamed of hence her departure. Her only living relative, her sister, married in Glasgow and moved to New York. I really don't think they knew each other, and my ggrandmother never knew her real surname, it took me ages to track that one down. Laurette -----Original Message----- From: Jean & John Johnston [mailto:jeanjohn@xtra.co.nz] Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 5:22 AM To: L Gerholt; Lanarkshire Mailing List Subject: Re: [Lanark] Single mothers Hello Laurette, A sad story, as you say. Your great gran was seeking a better life no doubt. Perhaps she was accompanying the man she married, was going to stay with friends or relatives in Australia, or possibly was indentured to work there. Regards, John

Hello Laurette, A sad story, as you say. Your great gran was seeking a better life no doubt. Perhaps she was accompanying the man she married, was going to stay with friends or relatives in Australia, or possibly was indentured to work there. Regards, John

Hi List I've been wondering for some time why my ggrandmother, who was very pregnant at the time, would contemplate sailing to Australia from Glasgow on her own. The ship "Toowoomba" departed Glasgow on 10 Dec 1872 and arrived at Brisbane, Australia on 29 Mar 1873. The baby, a girl, was born on the voyage on 18 Dec 1872, just over a week after departure. Unfortunately, the little girl died in Brisbane on 21 Apr 1873. The baby's father was named on the Birth Certificate, but he wasn't on the passenger list. My ggrandmother eventually married in 1886 and had another five children. Her father died in 1852, then her mother in 1860, both in Glasgow. The mother had to apply for Poor Relief, which she received, as she had two girls. She couldn't look after my ggrandmother as she was a "sickly" child (no idea of why, stated on poor relief papers) and was fostered out to a family. She appeared on both the 1851 Census and 1861 Census with this family. I don't know if she had any further contact with her immediate family, but I doubt it. Her sister was staying with another family on the 1861 Census, but she was present when her mother died. It's a very sad story but I can't fathom out as to why she would travel to the other side of the world alone, and pregnant. Any ideas please? Laurette

Wow, Jo-Ann thanks heaps for that. Perhaps they did not survive but will follow your suggestion. cheers Marg -----Original Message----- From: Jo Ann Croft via Sent: Monday, August 1, 2016 11:00 AM To: lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] DOBBIE, CARLIN, HEGGARTY and HARRIGAN familysearch.org shows two female births for Thomas Williamson and Anne Carlin who married 7 June 1859 in Glasgow. Sarah b 18 Aug 1860 in High Church area of Glasgow Alice b 23 Aug 1862 in High Church area of Glasgow 1861 census in High Church shows Thomas, Ann and Sarah (8 months) 1871 census in Barony shows only Thomas, Ann and James (6 years) You should check scotlandspeople for the deaths of the girls to be sure they weren't simply living with other family members at the time of the census. Jo-Ann Croft On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 8:32 PM, marg o'leary via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Catherine Carlin had a sister Anne who married James Williamson 7 june > 1859. > > I would dearly like to be able to track down what happens to this family. > I > think she had two boys James and Thomas, but did she have any girls?. > > ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Maisie, for your time, Well, O's and U's could appear very similar in my own hand writing at times, but, I had not considered that spelling previously. Will try it today, see where it takes me. Mary New Zealand. -----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger [mailto:campsiehills@sbcglobal.net] https://www.british-genealogy.com/archive/index.php/t-37879.html Any good? I didn't go down the whole article, however. Maisie -----Original Message----- From: Mary Legarth via Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2016 5:08 PM To: lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: [Lanark] CLUGGIE Is anyone researching the name CLUGGIE ? c 1889, James CLUGGIE and Margaret FORSYTH married , possibly Stow, Midlothian, Scotland. They show in Glasgow, where the following known children were born. Isabella Forsyth 1889; James 1898; Mattew 1901. There may have been misspellings, the name has also been spelt as CLUQQIE. James died 1933, from a Cardiac condition. Isabella married Robert BROWN 1912, in Stow. Matthew married Elizabeth GORDON 1929, Glasgow. Margaret Cluggie (Forsyth), died 1932, living at 133 Balmoral St., Glasgow The Mother of Margaret Forsyth was Janet DODDS, my 2 X Gt. Grandmother.