I'm happy and sad for you. Very happy at your success in Ireland, I wish I could get there as my husband's great grandparents are a big brick wall. Sad for your experience at the Mitchell. It seems that hiring a researcher is still the least expensive method of finding anything not on scotlandspeople. Jo-Ann On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Jennifer Myers <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello to All, > > I have just returned home from a 6 week journey around IRE, Nthn IRE and > UK...some wonderful highlights and a couple on the down side! > > Highlight - The staff at the Irish Archives couldn’t have been more > helpful with my friend’s research as were the staff at the Ireland (Dublin) > GRO in supplying an 1899 non-certified marriage registration within a > minute of paying over the Euros. > Costs for articles purchased – A 1936 Will and Testament @ E15 posted to > your o’seas address – Non-Cert. Marriage @ E4 handed to you over the > counter. > > Another highlight was the help at the deconsecrated Church of Ireland in > Bandon Parish Co. Cork. This Church is now a Museum of the local area. The > gr grandfather of my friend’s partner was the Rector and then Canon of this > Church for 38yrs, between 1898-1936. The historian had us follow him to > another Church and Burial Ground containing the grave of he and his wife > and possibly one of their children about 6-7 miles out of town, so helpful. > From here we managed to find the old Rectory which is now in private hands. > This Church Museum holds a card index as well as transcribed registers for > what seemed to be all the former Ch. of Ire. Churches within the Parish of > Bandon going well back in time. Never give up on finding Irish records,,, > > On the Downside – The new 5th floor Family History and Special Collections > together with the new Scottish GRO as in ScotlandsPeople/NRH/Park Circus > set up. > > The Mitchell general research centre staff were helpful to a point as were > the special collections – when one is not a regular researcher at the > Mitchell and not sure of the records available in each section a little > extra help would have been appreciated even after going through what was > showing on the computer catalogue. Comparing this visit to 10 yrs ago, > there was no comparison, the staff 10 yrs ago seemed to be more > knowledgeable, looked at what you already had then guided and advised you > as to which records would possibly be most beneficial. > > The use of the General Reg, Section – you are better off doing your > research from the luxury of your own home, I was so disappointed. > As to the two NOT so happy staff, I think they require training in Public > Relations! > DO NOT go in there with a friend if only one of you is going to do the > computer searching...£30 to use one only computer, that is only one person > researching, no offer of two computers....NO we were made pay for 2 people > at one computer, this payment equated to almost AU$60 which would have been > far better spent buying multiple SP Credits at home. Any record you wanted > had to be printed by their own printer and nothing after 3pm, no use of a > camera or downloading an image to a portable drive was allowed. Not > realising I had hit print on a record after 3 it was brought to me and was > told, no more! > > Needless to say I was not impressed with the situation. I hope this makes > others aware of the time factor and cost to use the new facility in > relation to researching from home wherever you might live. Paying the > normal fee of £15 whether at this facility or at NRH I would have happily > paid but not double. ( I think that is the Scottish blood showing through! ) > > Our other disappointment was not having an extra day to go to NAS in > Edinburgh...If only Episcopalian Records were added to the SP database! > Bank Holiday closures caught up with us no matter where we were. > > Regards > Jenny > > >

Re: Capetown S.A. source for birth cert. Hi Maisie, It's not that easy to get a birth certificate from Cape Town unless you have the denomination / parish of the birth. Then if you have that information it is relatively easy either to get in touch with the parish, or to try to source a repository for that particular denomination. For example, Methodist Church documents are kept at the Cory Library in Grahamstown. Hope this helps. Best wishes, Rose On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:00 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >

Maisie, Were the children British citizens? If so they may be registered on Consular Birth records. These will be kept in London. Kate Israel-Manwell Verzonden vanaf Samsung Mobile <div>-------- Oorspronkelijk bericht --------</div><div>Van: [email protected] </div><div>Datum:05-06-2014 09:22 (GMT+01:00) </div><div>Aan: [email protected] </div><div>Onderwerp: LANARK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 75 </div><div> </div> PLEASE NOTE When replying to a digest message, please quote only the specific portion or message to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. ------------------------------- Today's Topics: 1. Re: James Lawson & Margaret Stewart b. c. 1800 (Rhoda Overson) 2. Deciphering a place name on an OPR birth - help? (Carolyn Perkes) 3. Re: Deciphering a place name on an OPR birth - help? (Carolyn Perkes) 4. Capetown S.A. source for birth cert. (Maisie Egger) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 12:35:58 +0100 From: "Rhoda Overson" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Lanark] James Lawson & Margaret Stewart b. c. 1800 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hello Michael Glasgow was the main port of sail for people leaving Scotland for the Americas; there were others such as Dundee (I have ancestors who sailed directly from Dundee to Canada in the 1840s). But James and Margaret may not have been born, or even lived, in the Glasgow area. The name 'Lawson' was found all over central Scotland at the end of the 18th century and early 19th century - in Angus, Perthshire, Fife, Midlothian etc etc as well as Lanarkshire (from a search on the Births/Baptisms index at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk). And 'Stewart' was probably found everywhere. The births/baptisms of 381 Margaret Stewarts were entered in the Church of Scotland parish records between 1790 and 1805. There would have been others who weren't in the Registers. Rhoda -----Original Message----- From: Michael Wallace Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 2:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] James Lawson & Margaret Stewart b. c. 1800 Hi Folks, At the suggestion of a member, I am posting my request here as he tells me older generations of Lawsons lived in Lanark. My wife's ancestors, James (maybe Ramsey for a middle name) Lawson and Margaret Stewart emigrated from Glasgow directly to Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada according to family notes. Apparently she had found "the love of her life" and left a teaching post in a boarding school for James. The records of the Presbyterian church show that they were married in June 1825 although their oldest child was born two months prior to that, also here in Saint John. So was he maybe an older man? ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 13:04:07 -0400 From: Carolyn Perkes <[email protected]> Subject: [Lanark] Deciphering a place name on an OPR birth - help? To: Lanark Lanarkshire <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Yesterday I downloaded an OPR birth (1827) for a Bremner ancestor in Caithness and was thrilled to find a relation of another ancestor, a Polson, on the same page, and possibly a third, a Finlayson, who may somehow be connected. I would ask on the Caithness list but it is not very active. There *is* a later connection to Lanark since several descendants in this group did move south to Glasgow and one married a Lesmahagow ancestor. I have tried researching place names, on an old Latheron parish map and in Eric Richardson's "Highland Clearances," but without success. http://www.scottish-places.info/parishes/parmap119.html#TMaps This could be a hamlet or perhaps an estate. It may well be a Gaelic name, am really not sure. It looks like Brachugge (but that cannot be correct). I thought perhaps it could be Balnabruich, near Dunbeath, but this is only a guess. If any list members are interested in taking a look at the birth record to try to decipher this place name, I could send it privately. Many thanks. Carolyn ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2014 13:35:07 -0400 From: Carolyn Perkes <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Lanark] Deciphering a place name on an OPR birth - help? To: Lanark Lanarkshire <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII After more careful examination of the old map of Latheron parish, I think the place must be Braehungie Unroofed croft house recently sold nearby: http://www.uklanddirectory.com/land-for-sale.asp?id=12822 Carolyn On 2014-06-04, at 1:04 PM, I wrote: > Yesterday I downloaded an OPR birth (1827) for a Bremner ancestor in Caithness and was thrilled to find a relation of another ancestor, a Polson, on the same page, and possibly a third, a Finlayson, who may somehow be connected. > > I would ask on the Caithness list but it is not very active. There *is* a later connection to Lanark since several descendants in this group did move south to Glasgow and one married a Lesmahagow ancestor. > > I have tried researching place names, on an old Latheron parish map and in Eric Richardson's "Highland Clearances," but without success. > > http://www.scottish-places.info/parishes/parmap119.html#TMaps > > This could be a hamlet or perhaps an estate. It may well be a Gaelic name, am really not sure. It looks like Brachugge (but that cannot be correct). I thought perhaps it could be Balnabruich, near Dunbeath, but this is only a guess. > > If any list members are interested in taking a look at the birth record to try to decipher this place name, I could send it privately. > > Many thanks. > > Carolyn ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 15:27:56 -0700 From: "Maisie Egger" <[email protected]> Subject: [Lanark] Capetown S.A. source for birth cert. To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I have the birth certificate for my mother?s sister who was born in Capetown, South Africa. There was another child born also in Capetown, but when the family came back to Glasgow he died at Ruchill Hospital of diphtheria at the age of four in 1909. Can anyone tell me where I should apply for the birth certificate in such as Capetown for Robert Brown, child of Robert Brown and Catherine McDougall Anderson Brown, formerly from 116 George St., Glasgow (among other addresses)? Maisie ------------------------------ To contact the LANARK list administrator, send an email to [email protected] To post a message to the LANARK mailing list, send an email to [email protected] __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of LANARK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 75 *************************************

Excellent link, Nivard. With thanks. Maisie -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 2:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Capetown S.A. source for birth cert. Hi Maisie I have not seen a reply to your enquiry here is a link that may help that I had saved in my South Africa file <http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/> There is also a South Africa list where you will find sound advice Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 04/06/2014 23:27, Maisie Egger wrote: > I have the birth certificate for my mother’s sister who was born in > Capetown, South Africa. There was another child born also in Capetown, > but when the family came back to Glasgow he died at Ruchill Hospital of > diphtheria at the age of four in 1909. > > Can anyone tell me where I should apply for the birth certificate in such > as Capetown for Robert Brown, child of Robert Brown and Catherine > McDougall Anderson Brown, formerly from 116 George St., Glasgow (among > other addresses)? > > Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Maisie I have not seen a reply to your enquiry here is a link that may help that I had saved in my South Africa file <http://home.global.co.za/~mercon/> There is also a South Africa list where you will find sound advice Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 04/06/2014 23:27, Maisie Egger wrote: > I have the birth certificate for my mother’s sister who was born in Capetown, South Africa. There was another child born also in Capetown, but when the family came back to Glasgow he died at Ruchill Hospital of diphtheria at the age of four in 1909. > > Can anyone tell me where I should apply for the birth certificate in such as Capetown for Robert Brown, child of Robert Brown and Catherine McDougall Anderson Brown, formerly from 116 George St., Glasgow (among other addresses)? > > Maisie

I have the birth certificate for my mother’s sister who was born in Capetown, South Africa. There was another child born also in Capetown, but when the family came back to Glasgow he died at Ruchill Hospital of diphtheria at the age of four in 1909. Can anyone tell me where I should apply for the birth certificate in such as Capetown for Robert Brown, child of Robert Brown and Catherine McDougall Anderson Brown, formerly from 116 George St., Glasgow (among other addresses)? Maisie

After more careful examination of the old map of Latheron parish, I think the place must be Braehungie Unroofed croft house recently sold nearby: http://www.uklanddirectory.com/land-for-sale.asp?id=12822 Carolyn On 2014-06-04, at 1:04 PM, I wrote: > Yesterday I downloaded an OPR birth (1827) for a Bremner ancestor in Caithness and was thrilled to find a relation of another ancestor, a Polson, on the same page, and possibly a third, a Finlayson, who may somehow be connected. > > I would ask on the Caithness list but it is not very active. There *is* a later connection to Lanark since several descendants in this group did move south to Glasgow and one married a Lesmahagow ancestor. > > I have tried researching place names, on an old Latheron parish map and in Eric Richardson's "Highland Clearances," but without success. > > http://www.scottish-places.info/parishes/parmap119.html#TMaps > > This could be a hamlet or perhaps an estate. It may well be a Gaelic name, am really not sure. It looks like Brachugge (but that cannot be correct). I thought perhaps it could be Balnabruich, near Dunbeath, but this is only a guess. > > If any list members are interested in taking a look at the birth record to try to decipher this place name, I could send it privately. > > Many thanks. > > Carolyn

Yesterday I downloaded an OPR birth (1827) for a Bremner ancestor in Caithness and was thrilled to find a relation of another ancestor, a Polson, on the same page, and possibly a third, a Finlayson, who may somehow be connected. I would ask on the Caithness list but it is not very active. There *is* a later connection to Lanark since several descendants in this group did move south to Glasgow and one married a Lesmahagow ancestor. I have tried researching place names, on an old Latheron parish map and in Eric Richardson's "Highland Clearances," but without success. http://www.scottish-places.info/parishes/parmap119.html#TMaps This could be a hamlet or perhaps an estate. It may well be a Gaelic name, am really not sure. It looks like Brachugge (but that cannot be correct). I thought perhaps it could be Balnabruich, near Dunbeath, but this is only a guess. If any list members are interested in taking a look at the birth record to try to decipher this place name, I could send it privately. Many thanks. Carolyn

Hello Michael Glasgow was the main port of sail for people leaving Scotland for the Americas; there were others such as Dundee (I have ancestors who sailed directly from Dundee to Canada in the 1840s). But James and Margaret may not have been born, or even lived, in the Glasgow area. The name 'Lawson' was found all over central Scotland at the end of the 18th century and early 19th century - in Angus, Perthshire, Fife, Midlothian etc etc as well as Lanarkshire (from a search on the Births/Baptisms index at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk). And 'Stewart' was probably found everywhere. The births/baptisms of 381 Margaret Stewarts were entered in the Church of Scotland parish records between 1790 and 1805. There would have been others who weren't in the Registers. Rhoda -----Original Message----- From: Michael Wallace Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 2:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] James Lawson & Margaret Stewart b. c. 1800 Hi Folks, At the suggestion of a member, I am posting my request here as he tells me older generations of Lawsons lived in Lanark. My wife's ancestors, James (maybe Ramsey for a middle name) Lawson and Margaret Stewart emigrated from Glasgow directly to Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada according to family notes. Apparently she had found "the love of her life" and left a teaching post in a boarding school for James. The records of the Presbyterian church show that they were married in June 1825 although their oldest child was born two months prior to that, also here in Saint John. So was he maybe an older man?

Hi Folks, At the suggestion of a member, I am posting my request here as he tells me older generations of Lawsons lived in Lanark. My wife's ancestors, James (maybe Ramsey for a middle name) Lawson and Margaret Stewart emigrated from Glasgow directly to Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada according to family notes.  Apparently she had found "the love of her life" and left a teaching post in a boarding school for James.  The records of the Presbyterian church show that they were married in June 1825 although their oldest child was born two months prior to that, also here in Saint John.  So was he maybe an older man? Are there any Lawson or Stewart relatives who subscribe to this list that knows anything about a James Lawson sweeping some sweet young teacher off her feet and not setting her down until they were in Canada? According to the 1851 Census, Margaret, then 51, had been born in Scotland and was a widow by that time.  She had four daughters, Margaret (married George Reece Ganong), Elizabeth (married Duncan Somerville, Matilda and Mary (my wife's line) and one son, James.  We have no records of death or any other earlier information for either one of them.  What became of them?  Is it possible they ended their days with their daughter, Matilda (Tildie) who may possibly have been living in The United States? Any direction or suggestions gratefully received. Thanks for taking the time to read my query. Michael C. Wallace 24 Queen Street Saint John, NB Canada E2L 1R8 506-652-3168 [email protected]

Hi all the BL newspapers site have asked users to suggest the next papers to scan and make available <http://help-and-advice.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/forums/243704-newspapers-we-should-add-next> More Scottish Papers seems quite far down the list ;-) You need to use an email address (perhaps a throw away one?) and accept their terms & conds You get ten votes and can use 1 to 3 on each subject -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi again How do you come by the information regarding the deaths, what is the source ? Can you post the names, dates, places etc. is it possible you have not found the registrations due to name variations etc Without finding the death registrations or perhaps a mention in the papers, any suggestions are pure guesswork For example, there may have been an outbreak of cholera, TB or whatever in the period, killing many people, but yours may have all died in a fire or each died from different causes At the time of any epidemic, people died from a variety of other causes in the same period NB I don't know what the situation was in Scotland regarding death / burials, ie the legislation, for example in England/Wales it was not until 1874 that an act was brought in that death registration had to be within 5 days and supported by a doctors certificate, and not until 1926 that a death or coroners certificate was required before burial or cremation could take place Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 28/05/2014 08:35, Jennifer Cole wrote: > Sorry for delay, I cant find death regs. As all these young people > died in 1860' I wondered if there was some sort of epidemic at that > time in or around Glengowan,. Jen

Sorry for delay, I cant find death regs. As all these young people died in 1860' I wondered if there was some sort of epidemic at that time in or around Glengowan,. Jen Sent from my iPad > On 27 May 2014, at 5:01 pm, [email protected] wrote: > > > > PLEASE NOTE > > When replying to a digest message, please quote only the specific portion or message to which you are replying, removing the rest of the digest from your reply. Also, remember to change the subject of your reply so that it coincides with the message subject to which you are replying. > > ------------------------------- > > Today's Topics: > > 1. 1860 (Jennifer Cole) > 2. Re: 1860 (Nivard Ovington) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 18:13:51 +1000 > From: Jennifer Cole <[email protected]> > Subject: [Lanark] 1860 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Can anyone tell me what happened in dalserf in 1860. I have three deaths from the one family in that year, was there some epidemic , also in 1840 two died. Jennifer. Cole > > Sent from my iPad > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 09:22:58 +0100 > From: Nivard Ovington <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Lanark] 1860 > To: [email protected] > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Jennifer > > What do the death registrations give as cause of death for the 1860 events ? > > Across time in all places people have died from accidents, illness, etc etc > > Even in times of cholera outbreaks, people have been killed in fires or > by other causes > > So what was happening in Dalserf in the period, may have had no effect > on your family > > Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) > >> On 26/05/2014 09:13, Jennifer Cole wrote: >> Can anyone tell me what happened in dalserf in 1860. I have three >> deaths from the one family in that year, was there some epidemic , >> also in 1840 two died. Jennifer. Cole > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the LANARK list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the LANARK mailing list, send an email to [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of LANARK Digest, Vol 9, Issue 71 > *************************************

You are more than welcome Its a pity we have to pay for them but am philosophical about it Unlike the Irish wills which are free Just in case they may be of interest <http://soldierswills.nationalarchives.ie/search/sw/home.jsp> And the English/Welsh https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/ Which are a horrendous price by comparison Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 27/05/2014 20:27, Rhoda Overson wrote: > Thank you, Nivard. I didn't find a will for my Great Uncle but I did find > his pal's who died a week after him in 1916. Both aged 21. Very moving. > > Rhoda

Thank you, Nivard. I didn't find a will for my Great Uncle but I did find his pal's who died a week after him in 1916. Both aged 21. Very moving. Rhoda -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Soldiers wills go online Hi all Thought this may be of interest <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27575187> They are on scotlandspeople and cost 2.50gbp each or 10 credits -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Hi all Thought this may be of interest <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27575187> They are on scotlandspeople and cost 2.50gbp each or 10 credits -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Can anyone tell me what happened in dalserf in 1860. I have three deaths from the one family in that year, was there some epidemic , also in 1840 two died. Jennifer. Cole Sent from my iPad

Hi Jennifer What do the death registrations give as cause of death for the 1860 events ? Across time in all places people have died from accidents, illness, etc etc Even in times of cholera outbreaks, people have been killed in fires or by other causes So what was happening in Dalserf in the period, may have had no effect on your family Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 26/05/2014 09:13, Jennifer Cole wrote: > Can anyone tell me what happened in dalserf in 1860. I have three > deaths from the one family in that year, was there some epidemic , > also in 1840 two died. Jennifer. Cole

Hi Maisie This was very interesting to read and I wondered if you tell me where you found the records please. I have quite a number of families on my husband's lineage who lived in Kirkcudbrightshire and a few that I know of are illegitimate, so when I read about the Paternity orders, wondered how you accessed the records. I live in Brisbane, so cannot visit in person, but if access is via ordering in any particular film via the LDS then I can do that or if there is a site on line would love to know. Or even if you had someone do a look up at the archives regarding the records. Many thanks and look forward to hearing more about the adventures. I have some in Lanarkshire, in which we have named the mothers as " free spirited lasses" as we have 3 sisters who all had a number of children out of wedlock each. With one young girl - Janet, who only got married just in time before her last child was born, this child was no 6 of her children and all survived and went on to have families of their own. Her other sisters, seems that her mother and father brought up the children, and I mean children. Not much different to today's families I don't think and this was back in the 1850/60's. Thanks Ailsa Ailsa Corlett [email protected] or alternative email [email protected] Family History Web Site http://home.st.net.au/~ ailsa -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maisie Egger Sent: Sunday, 18 May 2014 1:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Chikld Support re Paternity Orders My daughter works for a county department that chases down deadbeat fathers, to the tune of saving taxpayers million of dollars. I thought this was a more modern introduction, until recently I received a copy of a Paternity Order in 1850 in Kirkcudbright Sheriff Court where a great-grandfather of mine had to pay ‘child support’ for 14 years for a male illegitimate child he ‘spawned.” Now I have received copies of another Kirkcudbright Sheriff Court’s action against a tenant farmer, the ‘spawner’ of twins born to the sister of the great grandfather (crumbs!) who worked as a domestic servant on this very large farm of 600 acres. The tenant farmer was ordered to pay two pounds ten shillings lying-in expenses attending the birth of twin children, male and female. The male child died. The defender also had to pay five shillings deduction of the ten shillings share of expenses attending the funeral of the male child.. Further: Item of the sum of five pounds sterling yearly as his share of the expenses of alimenting clothing and education the said female child and by quarterly payments of one pound five shillings starting in advance, beginning the first quarter’s payment ... and spread out over each quarter, etc., ... until the said female child is seven years complete. There are more details about payments when and how much, but the thing that caught my eye is that the great-grandfather’s illegitimate son, born 1849, was to be supported until he was fourteen years of age, whereas, his sister’s illegitimate female child, born 1852, would be supported until she was only seven years of age. Sexism? Why? Now this tenant farmer, who remained unmarried, seems to have been a cad in more ways than one because even though he did not own the land he rented and which belonged to some Duke or Other, he had much farming equipment, horses and other assets, enough to leave such in his will to his unmarried sisters, but not a bean to the illegitimate daughter he brought into this world and who was given his mother’s name, to add insult to injury! Each child would take the surname of each ‘recalcitrant’ father. The question: would this be part of the ‘support aliment’ that they had to bear the surnames of the fathers if they were to receive financial support? The illegitimate male child of my great-grandfather ended up in England as a policeman, and where some of his descendants in the Oxford area have done well for themselves as dentists, etc. The illegitimate female child became a domestic like her mother and also moved to England, subsequently going up the domestic servant employment ladder as a housekeeper a la Downton Abbey in a big house in the Manchester area. She would also pattern her mother’s ‘problem’ of having a child out of wedlock. We have no clue who the father was...maybe the big shot who owned the very large house/estate. Dunno! Her son toed the mark, married and had a family...but no luminaries so far as I know! Interesting that we have tracked down the descendants of both ill-begotten children (to quote Robert Burns) and all seem to be flourishing well enough. I haven’t had the need to check any illegitimate offspring of anyone in the Lanarkshire constituency, but must assume that there is the same set-up as in Kirkcudbright Sheriff Court as in the 1850s to make the fathers of illegitimate children financially accountable. Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My daughter works for a county department that chases down deadbeat fathers, to the tune of saving taxpayers million of dollars. I thought this was a more modern introduction, until recently I received a copy of a Paternity Order in 1850 in Kirkcudbright Sheriff Court where a great-grandfather of mine had to pay ‘child support’ for 14 years for a male illegitimate child he ‘spawned.” Now I have received copies of another Kirkcudbright Sheriff Court’s action against a tenant farmer, the ‘spawner’ of twins born to the sister of the great grandfather (crumbs!) who worked as a domestic servant on this very large farm of 600 acres. The tenant farmer was ordered to pay two pounds ten shillings lying-in expenses attending the birth of twin children, male and female. The male child died. The defender also had to pay five shillings deduction of the ten shillings share of expenses attending the funeral of the male child.. Further: Item of the sum of five pounds sterling yearly as his share of the expenses of alimenting clothing and education the said female child and by quarterly payments of one pound five shillings starting in advance, beginning the first quarter’s payment ... and spread out over each quarter, etc., ... until the said female child is seven years complete. There are more details about payments when and how much, but the thing that caught my eye is that the great-grandfather’s illegitimate son, born 1849, was to be supported until he was fourteen years of age, whereas, his sister’s illegitimate female child, born 1852, would be supported until she was only seven years of age. Sexism? Why? Now this tenant farmer, who remained unmarried, seems to have been a cad in more ways than one because even though he did not own the land he rented and which belonged to some Duke or Other, he had much farming equipment, horses and other assets, enough to leave such in his will to his unmarried sisters, but not a bean to the illegitimate daughter he brought into this world and who was given his mother’s name, to add insult to injury! Each child would take the surname of each ‘recalcitrant’ father. The question: would this be part of the ‘support aliment’ that they had to bear the surnames of the fathers if they were to receive financial support? The illegitimate male child of my great-grandfather ended up in England as a policeman, and where some of his descendants in the Oxford area have done well for themselves as dentists, etc. The illegitimate female child became a domestic like her mother and also moved to England, subsequently going up the domestic servant employment ladder as a housekeeper a la Downton Abbey in a big house in the Manchester area. She would also pattern her mother’s ‘problem’ of having a child out of wedlock. We have no clue who the father was...maybe the big shot who owned the very large house/estate. Dunno! Her son toed the mark, married and had a family...but no luminaries so far as I know! Interesting that we have tracked down the descendants of both ill-begotten children (to quote Robert Burns) and all seem to be flourishing well enough. I haven’t had the need to check any illegitimate offspring of anyone in the Lanarkshire constituency, but must assume that there is the same set-up as in Kirkcudbright Sheriff Court as in the 1850s to make the fathers of illegitimate children financially accountable. Maisie