I was asked to do so after contacting admin. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Jackson [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, 2 January 2015 2:17 AM To: 'Lorraine Standfield' Subject: RE: [Lanark] Trial I do not understand the need for a "trial" email. If you have something to say to the list, do so. Otherwise please do not clutter our mailboxes and the archives with useless mails.

The following article came indirectly from another source, and though not pertaining to the Lanark list, it should be of general interest. In addition, many people moved to Glasgow from the Western Isles, Orkneys and Shetlands and Highlands for work, and likely continue to do so. Even during my time, I personally knew some hielanders who would congregate under the Hielanman’s Umbrella to meet their fellow Gaels and converse in their first language, the Gaelic. Nollaig Chridheil agus Bliadhna Mhath Ùr (Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.) The following link explains more about the Hielanman’s Umbrella and the impact of so many from other parts of Scotland who congregated to Glasgow for work. http://www.glasgowwestend.co.uk/out/outdoors/teuchter.php Maisie THE REMOTE BRITISH COMMUNITY THAT WILL NOT CELEBRATE NEW YEAR FOR ANOTHER FORTNIGHT One of Britain's remotest communities will not celebrate the New Year until nearly two weeks after the rest of the country - because it still adheres to an ancient calendar for the festivity. Foula in Shetland is still to even celebrate Christmas. It marks Christmas and New Year according to the feast days of the old Julian calendar - Yule on January 6 and Newerday on the 13th. The community of just over 30 on the tiny Shetland island has a strong Norse tradition of folklore, music and special festivities. Its inhabitants were the last to speak Norn, a form of old Norse which died out around 1800. Islanders will gather in one house to celebrate Christmas where they will exchange gifts and greetings. They islanders include six children - who had been patiently waiting for Santa Claus. 'Islanders have celebrated these days every since the Georgian Calendar,' said crofter Jim Gear, 71, who was born on the island. 'We have carried this long for a long time - it is part of our tradition. 'We are not unique - other parts of the world still celebrate the old calendar. When New Year comes we will visit each others' houses.' The island is three and a half miles long by two and a half miles wide. At one point, Foula - which lies 15 miles west of mainland Shetland and 100 miles north of mainland Scotland, on the same latitude as outhern Greenland - sustained 287 people. Foula got running water in 1982 and full electricity by 1984, supplied by a diesel generator. It currently has a renewable energy system - mainly photo voltaic - backed up by diesel. The isle is so remote and prone to the weather that attempts by the last Church of Scotland minister, the Rev. Tom Macintyre, to reach it for one Christmas service had to be abandoned after three attempts. On Foula, Mr Macintyre carried out one wedding - when he married Amy and Wullie Ratter in their croft garden - one funeral, where mourners had to walk a mile from the church to the cemetery and, sadly, no baptisms in his five years in charge. Mr Macintyre said he usually left Foula with gifts of lamb and home baking. By special arrangement of the CoS General Assembly, Foula is required to have six visits per year. Foula - meaning "bird island" in old Norse - was the location for the film The Edge of the World. The RMS Oceanic was wrecked on the nearby Shaalds of Foula.

Now available to view are images for Scottish statutory births in 1914, marriages in 1939 and deaths in 1964. These digital images of the official records are released under the legislation that allows the publication of birth, marriage and death (BMD) records that were registered in Scotland more than 100, 75 and 50 years ago. -- Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Trial e-mail

Hi I have found that James Kirkwood age 25 & John Kirkwood age 21 came to Melbourne. If this is them they were on the "Loch Tay" arriving in the February 1888 Their father died in the December they did not stay long after his death. They may have left before? Happy New Year Pam in Melbourne -----Original Message----- From: Family Historian via Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:46 AM To: Maisie Egger Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia John Kirkwood was born in Glasgow on 12 June 1866, son of William Kirkwood and Jean (Jane) Muir and his brother James was born Glasgow 19 Feb 1862. William and Jane had 9 children in total, only 3 survived into adulthood. Jane died in 1872 and William remarried in 1873 to Margaret Craig a 20 year old widow who was 28 years his junior and with whom he went on to have another 5 children all of whom survived into adulthood. William died in late December 1887 so it is understandable for John and James to go to Australia in Feb 1888. Judy, thank you for the newspaper announcements I feel certain that this is my John.. I will go online and order their death certificates but it does look like neither of the brothers married in Australia. It is a sad to think that of the nine children Jane gave birth to only one survived to marry and have children. I had an inkling that something had happened to both John and James.Their father William died a very wealthy man and had set up a trust in his will for his decedents which was only wound up around 2003 when the last of his properties was sold. Knowing who the final recipients of the trust were, I realised that none of John or James decedents ( if they had had any) could have survived. My great grandfather was one of William and Margaret’s sons. Thank you all for your help Eliena ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

http://www.scotsman.com/what-s-on/research-suggests-hogmanay-originated-in-yorkshire-1-3647789 A Guid New Year tae ane an’ a’ ... Happy Hogmanay to all on the Lanark list no matter where the tradition originated. Maisie from Dear Auld Glesga Toon

> Begin forwarded message: > > Subject: Re: William Kirkwood m Margaret Craig > From: Family Historian <[email protected]> > Date: 30 December 2014 12:13:55 GMT > To: [email protected] > > Charles > > She was 28 years his junior. They lied dreadfully I’m afraid. On their marriage certificate he gives his age as 40 and she gave her age as 28 admitting an age difference of 12 years however he was 48 and she was 20- a 28 year difference. !! This is my direct line and I have both their birth certificates. Poor Margaret was married, widowed and remarried before the age of 21. This census record shows John and James who went to Australia (William and Jane’s sons), my great grandfather Alexander and his brother David. Tom, Agnes and Andrew were to follow later while William’s eldest son William by Jean/Jane had married and left the family unit by that time. William was born 25 July1826 in Rutherglen and Margaret Marion Lee Craig was born on 7 March 1853 in Kilmacolm. > > Eliena >> On 30 Dec 2014, at 10:43, [email protected] wrote: >> >> Margaret Craig was 39 on the April 1881 Census so she would have been about 32 when she married William Kirkwood in 1873 and he would have been about 47 as he was born about 1826 on the 1851/ 1861 Censuses. So looks like he was about 15 years older than Margaret. >> Regards >> >> Charles >> ============= >> Dwelling: 203 Crown Street >> Census Place: Govan, Lanark, Scotland >> Source: FHL Film 0203669 GRO Ref Volume 644-11 EnumDist 7 Page 15 >> Marr Age Sex Birthplace >> William KIRKWOOD M 50 M Rutherglen, Lanark, Scotland >> Rel: Head >> Occ: Wine & Spirit Merchant >> Margaret C. KIRKWOOD M 39 F Kilmacolm, Lanark, Scotland >> Rel: Wife >> James KIRKWOOD 19 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland >> Rel: Son >> Occ: Architect >> John KIRKWOOD 14 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland >> Rel: Son >> Occ: Scholar >> Alex KIRKWOOD 4 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland >> Rel: Son >> David KIRKWOOD 2 M Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland >> Rel: Son >> Margaret RUSSELL 19 F Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland >> Rel: Serv >> Occ: General Serv >> >

Page 19 Febry 21st Thomas Brownlie & Margaret Dalzell both in this par give to ye poor 1/10/0 Febry 27th William Johnstone Jannet Russel both in this parish give to ye poor 1/10/0 March 17th James Russel Jannet Daunie both in this parish give to ye poor 1/10/0 Aprile 3 William Kinloch in the par: of Whitburn & Agnas Marshall in this parish give to ye poor 1/10/0 Aprile 10th Archbald Hamiltone in this par: & Jannet Walker in ye par of West Calder give to ye poor 1/10/0 Aprile 30 Richard Hamilton in the pa: of West Calder & Mary Teat in ys par gave 1/10/0 An accompt of the proclamations from May 2d 1736 Alexr Smith & Bethea Fram both in this par: give 1/10/0 Alexr Strethern & Helen Whitlaw both in this parish give 1/10/0 John Dalzel & Mary Waddle both in this par give 1/10/0 James Calderhead in the parish of Cambusnethan Anna Brownlie in this par give 1/10/0 William Lifgow & Helen Bailie both in this par give 1/10/0 James Rankin & Agnas Wardrop both in this parish give 1/10/0 John Breud(?) & Mary Tanniehill both in this parish five 1/10/0 John Russel in this parish and (blank) Cleellund in the parish of Foodel 1/10/0 Octr 7 George Waddell in this pa: and Margaret Calder in the pa: of Muir vensyde(?) gave 5/0/0 James Armour in the parish of old Munkland and Agnes Burnlie in this parish gave 1/10/0 Robert Steil and Jean Burnlie Both in this parish gave 1/10/0 Novmr 6thJames Smith in chiep(?) and Binah Octeer in the pa: of Cambusnethan gave Jo: Whytlaw and Jannet Chalmers both in this pa: gave 1 ? Jo: Turner and Anne Raid both in this pa gave 2/0/0 Michael Thomson and Hel(?) ? 1737 (?) Lang and Isobel Falconer both in this pa gave 1/10/0 Decmer 11th Matthew Neil and Jannet Baird both in this parish gave 1/10/0 May 8th William Bailie in the parish of Old Munkland and Helen Laurie in this parish gave 1/10/0 James Allan and Margaret Martin both in this parish gave 1/10/0 Thomas Treebairn and Janet Fairlie both in this parish gave 1/10/0 Alexander Lightbodie and Janet Rankin both in this parish gave 1/10/0 May 28 Alexander Dick in this parish and Agnes Christie in the parish of Bathgate gave 1/10/0 June 11th Henry Peterson in the parish of East Munkland and Mary Kedder in this parish gave 1/10/0 June 18th James Bell in this parish and Agnes Weir in the parish of Camrynethan gave 1/10/0 Jully 30 Thomas Millar in this parish and Jannet Gilkerson in the parish of Bothwell gave 1/10/0 Octr 11th William Baird in this pa: and Isobel Hanna in the pa: of Slammana gave 1/10/0 William Chalmers and Jean Millar both in this pa gave 1/10/0 Octr 22d John Fairslie and Marion Turner both in this gave 1/10/0 Octr 29th Thomas Petecrew in the parish of Cambusnethan and Christen Turner in this parish gave 1/10/0 John Russell in this parish and Marion Scot in the parish of Cambusnethan gave 1/10/0 Robert Wallace in the parish of Cambusnethan and Mary Walker in this parish gave 1/10/0 Janry 7th 1738 James Neulands and Jean Jaffrey both in this parish gave 1/10/0 James Neil in the parish of East Munkland and Margret Thomson in this parish gave 1/10/0 William Waddell and Jannet Walker both in this parish gave 1/10/0 John Willson in the parish of Whiteburn and Agnes Steil in this parish gave 1/10/0 Janry 28 John Burnlie in this parish and Mary Marshall in ye parish of Old Munkland gave 1/10/0 Febr 10th Thomas Simington and Janet Burnlie both in this parish gave 1/10/0 March 24 John Easton in this pa and Agnes Marshel in the parish of Torphichen gave 1/10/0 April 8 Thomas Burnlie in this parish and Agnes Reid in the parish of East Munkland gave 1/10/0

Morning all, Until after WWII it was relatively rare for working class families to give children more than one Christian name. Middle names tended to be the preserve of the landed/middle class. Obviously there are exceptions to all general rules. Middle names were often adopted where there was an unmarried great aunt or uncle with something worth inheriting, e.g. a croft or a healthy Coop insurance and parents would name a child after the said great aunt or uncle and indeed often invite her/him to be godparent/sponsor of said child in the hope it would lead to the inheritance! Happy New Year when it comes Mark -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maisie Egger via Sent: 29 December 2014 22:26 To: Jennifer Myers; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria, Australia Jenny, my parents had eight children: two brothers had no middle names, one was named after my mother's father, and one after my father. My two sisters and I had middle surnames from my mother's side, and only one from my father's side. Of our three children, I gave our two daughters middle 'Christian' names - Marguerite (an 'excuse' for Margaret after my mother as she did not want my girls named after her (and my young sister who died) and Catherine (after my mother's mother). Our son was given a first and middle name after my father's father, so at least I was awake 'genealogy-wise' when naming him! None of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren have carried on with either my or my husband's surnames. When I had to sign in my full name, such as on my driver's license, for some reason only my middle surname Brown (my mother's maiden surname) was signified, and not my own maiden surname. It bemuses me when I am asked if Brown is from my first marriage (I've just been married once to my beloved!). I then have to go into a big explanation that, no, in Scotland traditionally one carried on one's mother's maiden surname. This tradition seems not to apply, even in the U.K., anymore. Here, in the USA, my great-granddaughters' middle names are forenames: Marie, Rose, June, and then one to be born in March will have Grace as a middle name. The great-grandsons similarly, with Joseph (1), James (2), and only one surname Marshall. Time and change! Maisie

Hello List I am looking for birth/baptism for Mary Leslie Montgomery b. abt 1848 in Glasgow. She must have migrated to Australia when she was about 19 years old as she married in 1867 and had her first child in NSW in 1872 at age 23 years. Any assistance much appreciated. Thanks

Eliena, Maybe you could share with us the parental names or other info that might help pinpoint the right Kirkwoods... Not all offspring were given parental surnames as a middle name, I have a number of Scottish families where there were up to 12 children from a marriage and not one has a middle name. As for public trees and trees posted elsewhere, sorry I don’t look at them. Regards, Jenny From: Family Historian Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:55 AM To: Jennifer Myers Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia Thanks you all for replying to my query regarding the Kirkwood brothers. Thanks Jenny for posting the details below. However I doubt that my John Kirkwood married Rosetta, firstly the children names didn’t have any grandparent names in them and secondly a search on Ancestry of John and Rosetta showed them to be in several public trees. This John has different parents and is born in Australia. One further question how do I obtain copies of these death certificates in Victoria? Is there site like Scotland's People where you can obtain certificates online? Thanks Eliena On 29 Dec 2014, at 12:11, Jennifer Myers <[email protected]> wrote: Eliena, Each state and territory in Aus. is responsible for its own BDM registrations and as previously advised, the information on the death registrations (as in most instances in any country) relies upon the Informant’s knowledge of the deceased. Almost all certificates in the states of Aus. have far more information than English, and similar to Scottish, death c. incl. addresses of usual residence and where died, spouse info, length of marriage, no. of children, with a little luck how long a resident in the colony. Arriving as an Unassisted Passengers to Victoria on the ship Loch Tay (Feb. 1888 ), was John Kirkwood age 21 and James Kirkwood age 25. Is the following is the right John Kirkwood ?? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

You can down load a BDM certificate but at a cost which is different amount in each state. http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/ This is the Victorian site What information do you have? other than what other people think might be correct. Cheers Pam -----Original Message----- From: Family Historian via Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:55 AM To: Jennifer Myers Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia @rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John Kirkwood was born in Glasgow on 12 June 1866, son of William Kirkwood and Jean (Jane) Muir and his brother James was born Glasgow 19 Feb 1862. William and Jane had 9 children in total, only 3 survived into adulthood. Jane died in 1872 and William remarried in 1873 to Margaret Craig a 20 year old widow who was 28 years his junior and with whom he went on to have another 5 children all of whom survived into adulthood. William died in late December 1887 so it is understandable for John and James to go to Australia in Feb 1888. Judy, thank you for the newspaper announcements I feel certain that this is my John.. I will go online and order their death certificates but it does look like neither of the brothers married in Australia. It is a sad to think that of the nine children Jane gave birth to only one survived to marry and have children. I had an inkling that something had happened to both John and James.Their father William died a very wealthy man and had set up a trust! in his will for his decedents which was only wound up around 2003 when the last of his properties was sold. Knowing who the final recipients of the trust were, I realised that none of John or James decedents ( if they had had any) could have survived. My great grandfather was one of William and Margaret’s sons. Thank you all for your help Eliena

Eliena, Each state and territory in Aus. is responsible for its own BDM registrations and as previously advised, the information on the death registrations (as in most instances in any country) relies upon the Informant’s knowledge of the deceased. Almost all certificates in the states of Aus. have far more information than English, and similar to Scottish, death c. incl. addresses of usual residence and where died, spouse info, length of marriage, no. of children, with a little luck how long a resident in the colony. Arriving as an Unassisted Passengers to Victoria on the ship Loch Tay (Feb. 1888 ), was John Kirkwood age 21 and James Kirkwood age 25. Is the following is the right John Kirkwood ?? There is a downloadable Will for Rosetta Kirkwood who died 25 May 1921 at http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/ = Access Collection = PROVs Digitised records and online indexes....Search. Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: John Event: M Spouse Surname: NEAL, Gvn Names: Rosetta Birth Place: REMSEY ?? Year: 1888, Reg Number: 200 Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Rosetta Event: B, Sex: F Father: John Mother: Rosetta NEAL Birth Place: WARR Year: 1893, Reg. Number: 36080 Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Rosetta Event: D, Sex: Father: Kirkwood Jno Mother: Rosetta NEAL Age: 5 Death Place: Wbool Year: 1899, Reg. Number: 7858 ==== Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Daisy Maude Event: B, Sex: F Father: Jno Mother: Rosetta NEAL Birth Place: WARRNAMBOOL Year: 1889, Reg. Number: 17338 Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Daisy Maude Event: D, Sex: F Father: Jno Mother: Rosetta NEAL Age: 9 Age Code: D Death Place: Warrnambool Year: 1889, Reg. Number: 10247 ==== Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Fredk Jas Event: B, Sex: M Father: John Mother: Rosetta NEAL Birth Place: WARRNAMBOOL Year: 1890, Reg. Number: 37327 ==== Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Maud Inez Event: B, Sex: F Father: Jno Mother: Rosetta NEAL Birth Place: WARRNAMBOOL Year: 1898, Reg. Number: 15030 ==== Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Rosetta Event: B, Sex: F Father: Jno Mother: Rosetta NEAL Birth Place: WARRNAMBOOL Year: 1900, Reg. Number: 30534 ==== Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Jno Event: D Father: Unknown Mother: Jane MUIR Age: 35 Death Place: Melb S H H Year: 1901, Reg. Number: 2959 ================================= Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Jas Event: D, Sex: M Father: Wm Mother: Jane MUIR Age: 29 Death Place: S Y Year: 1891, Reg. Number: 12369 ================================= Happy New Year, Jenny -----Original Message----- From: Family Historian via Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 4:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Fwd: John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia > After many years of searching, I have finally found the two half brothers of my great grandfather. John ( bn 1866 - 1901) and James Kirkwood (1862 -1891) both born in Glasgow. I finally found their deaths in Victoria, Australia aged only 29 and 35. Can anyone in Australia tell me if the death certificates states whether the person was married and their spouses' names. The index on Ancestry gives both parents names for one of them and only the mother’s name for the other brother. At the ages of 29 and 35 I would think it is possible that one of both could have married. > > Thanks > Eliena --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Thanks you all for replying to my query regarding the Kirkwood brothers. Thanks Jenny for posting the details below. However I doubt that my John Kirkwood married Rosetta, firstly the children names didn’t have any grandparent names in them and secondly a search on Ancestry of John and Rosetta showed them to be in several public trees. This John has different parents and is born in Australia. One further question how do I obtain copies of these death certificates in Victoria? Is there site like Scotland's People where you can obtain certificates online? Thanks Eliena > On 29 Dec 2014, at 12:11, Jennifer Myers <[email protected]> wrote: > > Eliena, > > Each state and territory in Aus. is responsible for its own BDM registrations and as previously advised, the information on the death registrations (as in most instances in any country) relies upon the Informant’s knowledge of the deceased. Almost all certificates in the states of Aus. have far more information than English, and similar to Scottish, death c. incl. addresses of usual residence and where died, spouse info, length of marriage, no. of children, with a little luck how long a resident in the colony. > > Arriving as an Unassisted Passengers to Victoria on the ship Loch Tay (Feb. 1888 ), was John Kirkwood age 21 and James Kirkwood age 25. > > Is the following is the right John Kirkwood ?? > > There is a downloadable Will for Rosetta Kirkwood who died 25 May 1921 at http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/ <http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/> = Access Collection = > PROVs Digitised records and online indexes....Search. > > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: John > Event: M > Spouse Surname: NEAL, Gvn Names: Rosetta > Birth Place: REMSEY ?? > Year: 1888, Reg Number: 200 > > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Rosetta > Event: B, Sex: F > Father: John > Mother: Rosetta NEAL > Birth Place: WARR > Year: 1893, Reg. Number: 36080 > > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Rosetta > Event: D, Sex: > Father: Kirkwood Jno > Mother: Rosetta NEAL > Age: 5 > Death Place: Wbool > Year: 1899, Reg. Number: 7858 > ==== > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Daisy Maude > Event: B, Sex: F > Father: Jno > Mother: Rosetta NEAL > Birth Place: WARRNAMBOOL > Year: 1889, Reg. Number: 17338 > > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Daisy Maude > Event: D, Sex: F > Father: Jno > Mother: Rosetta NEAL > Age: 9 > Age Code: D > Death Place: Warrnambool > Year: 1889, Reg. Number: 10247 > ==== > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Fredk Jas > Event: B, Sex: M > Father: John > Mother: Rosetta NEAL > Birth Place: WARRNAMBOOL > Year: 1890, Reg. Number: 37327 > ==== > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Maud Inez > Event: B, Sex: F > Father: Jno > Mother: Rosetta NEAL > Birth Place: WARRNAMBOOL > Year: 1898, Reg. Number: 15030 > ==== > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Rosetta > Event: B, Sex: F > Father: Jno > Mother: Rosetta NEAL > Birth Place: WARRNAMBOOL > Year: 1900, Reg. Number: 30534 > ==== > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Jno > Event: D > Father: Unknown > Mother: Jane MUIR > Age: 35 > Death Place: Melb S H H > Year: 1901, Reg. Number: 2959 > ================================= > Surname: KIRKWOOD, Given Names: Jas > Event: D, Sex: M > Father: Wm > Mother: Jane MUIR > Age: 29 > Death Place: S Y > Year: 1891, Reg. Number: 12369 > ================================= > > > Happy New Year, > Jenny > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Family Historian via > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 4:41 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Lanark] Fwd: John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia > > > After many years of searching, I have finally found the two half brothers of my great grandfather. John ( bn 1866 - 1901) and James Kirkwood (1862 -1891) both born in Glasgow. I finally found their deaths in Victoria, Australia aged only 29 and 35. Can anyone in Australia tell me if the death certificates states whether the person was married and their spouses' names. The index on Ancestry gives both parents names for one of them and only the mother’s name for the other brother. At the ages of 29 and 35 I would think it is possible that one of both could have married. > > > > Thanks > > Eliena > > > > <http://www.avast.com/> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com <http://www.avast.com/>

Jenny, my parents had eight children: two brothers had no middle names, one was named after my mother's father, and one after my father. My two sisters and I had middle surnames from my mother's side, and only one from my father's side. Of our three children, I gave our two daughters middle 'Christian' names - Marguerite (an 'excuse' for Margaret after my mother as she did not want my girls named after her (and my young sister who died) and Catherine (after my mother's mother). Our son was given a first and middle name after my father's father, so at least I was awake 'genealogy-wise' when naming him! None of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren have carried on with either my or my husband's surnames. When I had to sign in my full name, such as on my driver's license, for some reason only my middle surname Brown (my mother's maiden surname) was signified, and not my own maiden surname. It bemuses me when I am asked if Brown is from my first marriage (I've just been married once to my beloved!). I then have to go into a big explanation that, no, in Scotland traditionally one carried on one's mother's maiden surname. This tradition seems not to apply, even in the U.K., anymore. Here, in the USA, my great-granddaughters' middle names are forenames: Marie, Rose, June, and then one to be born in March will have Grace as a middle name. The great-grandsons similarly, with Joseph (1), James (2), and only one surname Marshall. Time and change! Maisie -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Myers via Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 1:48 PM To: Family Historian Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia Eliena, Maybe you could share with us the parental names or other info that might help pinpoint the right Kirkwoods... Not all offspring were given parental surnames as a middle name, I have a number of Scottish families where there were up to 12 children from a marriage and not one has a middle name. As for public trees and trees posted elsewhere, sorry I don’t look at them. Regards, Jenny From: Family Historian Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 4:55 AM To: Jennifer Myers Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia Thanks you all for replying to my query regarding the Kirkwood brothers. Thanks Jenny for posting the details below. However I doubt that my John Kirkwood married Rosetta, firstly the children names didn’t have any grandparent names in them and secondly a search on Ancestry of John and Rosetta showed them to be in several public trees. This John has different parents and is born in Australia. One further question how do I obtain copies of these death certificates in Victoria? Is there site like Scotland's People where you can obtain certificates online? Thanks Eliena On 29 Dec 2014, at 12:11, Jennifer Myers <[email protected]> wrote: Eliena, Each state and territory in Aus. is responsible for its own BDM registrations and as previously advised, the information on the death registrations (as in most instances in any country) relies upon the Informant’s knowledge of the deceased. Almost all certificates in the states of Aus. have far more information than English, and similar to Scottish, death c. incl. addresses of usual residence and where died, spouse info, length of marriage, no. of children, with a little luck how long a resident in the colony. Arriving as an Unassisted Passengers to Victoria on the ship Loch Tay (Feb. 1888 ), was John Kirkwood age 21 and James Kirkwood age 25. Is the following is the right John Kirkwood ?? --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Eliena, Not knowing exactly where they died, the are a number of Kirkwood burials in Box Hill Cemetery, Vic. and many when you search on Kirkwood no other details. http://austcemindex.com Will send you more VIC. info later today. Happy New Year, Jenny on beautiful Lake Macquarie NSW Aus -----Original Message----- From: Family Historian via Subject: [Lanark] Fwd: John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia > After many years of searching, I have finally found the two half brothers > of my great grandfather. John ( bn 1866 - 1901) and James Kirkwood > (1862 -1891) both born in Glasgow. I finally found their deaths in > Victoria, Australia aged only 29 and 35. Can anyone in Australia tell me > if the death certificates states whether the person was married and their > spouses' names. The index on Ancestry gives both parents names for one of > them and only the mother’s name for the other brother. At the ages of 29 > and 35 I would think it is possible that one of both could have married. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Hi Death Certificates in Victorian are among the best you can get. They were designed on the 1855 certificates in Scotland. The death Certificates for John & James should have all the information you require only remember that the person giving the information to the person writing may not know all of it. Cheers Pam -----Original Message----- From: Family Historian via Sent: Monday, December 29, 2014 4:41 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Fwd: John and James Kirkwood - Glasgow to Victoria,Australia > > Hello > > After many years of searching, I have finally found the two half brothers > of my great grandfather. John ( bn 1866 - 1901) and James Kirkwood > (1862 -1891) both born in Glasgow. I finally found their deaths in > Victoria, Australia aged only 29 and 35. Can anyone in Australia tell me > if the death certificates states whether the person was married and their > spouses' names. The index on Ancestry gives both parents names for one of > them and only the mother’s name for the other brother. At the ages of 29 > and 35 I would think it is possible that one of both could have married. > > Thanks > Eliena ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> > Hello > > After many years of searching, I have finally found the two half brothers of my great grandfather. John ( bn 1866 - 1901) and James Kirkwood (1862 -1891) both born in Glasgow. I finally found their deaths in Victoria, Australia aged only 29 and 35. Can anyone in Australia tell me if the death certificates states whether the person was married and their spouses' names. The index on Ancestry gives both parents names for one of them and only the mother’s name for the other brother. At the ages of 29 and 35 I would think it is possible that one of both could have married. > > Thanks > Eliena

> What you see varies between different year's rolls but they > generally give you the name of the owner of the > property, the tenant or occupier, and the annual rent they > paid. And of course the address. The valuation in the valuation rolls is not the actual annual rent paid by a tenant to the landlord. It's the assessed rental, a notional figure calculated on the basis of a series of criteria by the assessors, so that the rates (property tax) to be paid by the owner/tenant/occupier to the local authority can be worked out equitably on the basis of the size and amenities of each property. That's why you get a valuation for owner-occupied properties as well as for properties which were actually let to tenants. The critical point about valuation rolls is that **only the heads of households are listed**. They do not contain any information at all about families - spouses, children, other relatives, servants or visitors. Anne