Hi Maisie As far as the census is concerned, the instruction to the householders & enumerators was to record :- (example from 1881 schedule) Where Born Opposite the Names of those born in England, write the COUNTY, and TOWN or PARISH If born in SCOTLAND, IRELAND, the British COLONIES or the EAST INDIES, state the Country or Colony If born in FOREIGN PARTS write the particular State or Country; and if also a BRITISH SUBJECT, add "British Subject" or "Naturalised British Subject" as the case may be The same applied in Scotland or Ireland with relevant alterations As far as passenger lists are concerned that would be relevant to the Country into which they were travelling In the main the country a person was going to was far more interested in the origin of that person than the country they were leaving Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 30/03/2016 20:19, Maisie Egger via wrote: > Irked! > > I have been looking at some Scottish marriage and census documents wherein anyone born in Scotland has the particular district or county identified. Oftentimes, however, if the person came from Ireland or England (or Wales even), there is no specific area denoted. For example on a Scottish census: Jane Doe, born Hamilton, John Doe, born Ireland. > > The same applies to an “English” boat passenger list, as another example: William Doe, born Leeds, but John Doe, Ireland- no particular place in Ireland. Those on my tree born in the Southwest of Scotland who were employed in England in the 1800s were listed on the English census as being born in Scotland, but other English domestics in the same household were defined specifically as born is Blackpool, Harrowgate, and so on, not a ‘generic’ England. Is there some reason for this? > > Maisie --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

> Is there some reason for this? That is what the enumerators were instructed to do. Why they were so instructed, I have no idea. Anne

Hi Jenny, Jeannette The Goldie line I am researching all come from the East End of Glasgow, I am aware that the name is common in Ayrshire, but I have quite a few statuary certificates all pertaining to Glasgow, in fact, one family in the census are listed at Goldie's land, Shettleston. I have marriage and death certificates for James Goldie (wife Margaret Jackson) who confirm his parents as James Goldie and Agnes Martin. I have searched Scotlands people, family search and Ancestry and cannot find this couple anywhere. I have one possibility that James Goldie is found in the 1851 census age 5yr (correct with countback on the certs) in the Glasgow poor house no parents listed. I went to the Mitchel to check the poor laws, but he was not listed, the archivist told me that the records did not cover that year, seems strange? I will go back and check again and see if they have admission registers for the poor house. many thanks billty On 29 March 2016 at 19:23, Bravaal <billy.bravaal@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > Looking to hear from anyone with connections to the Goldie family in > Tollcross and Shettleston. One lady had previously posted in 1999 on this > family. is Christine Hadden still on the list? > > regards > billy >

At Mitchell Library , . make an reservation to look at  Application for Poor House Relief, for the person you want. Bob Elliott, Canada On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:03 PM, Bravaal via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hi Jenny, Jeannette     The Goldie line I am researching all come from the East End of Glasgow, I am aware that the name is common in Ayrshire, but I have quite a few statuary certificates all pertaining to Glasgow, in fact, one family in the census are listed at Goldie's land, Shettleston.   I have marriage and death certificates for James Goldie (wife Margaret Jackson) who confirm his parents as James Goldie and Agnes Martin. I have searched Scotlands people, family search and Ancestry and cannot find this couple anywhere. I have one possibility that James Goldie is found in the 1851 census age 5yr (correct with countback on the certs) in the Glasgow poor house no parents listed. I went to the Mitchel to check the poor laws, but he was not listed, the archivist told me that the records did not cover that year, seems strange?   I will go back and check again and see if they have admission registers for the poor house. many thanks billty On 29 March 2016 at 19:23, Bravaal <billy.bravaal@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, >    Looking to hear from anyone with connections to the Goldie family in > Tollcross and Shettleston. One lady had previously posted in 1999 on this > family. is Christine Hadden still on the list? > > regards > billy >   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Can you tell me who the parents were for Lillia. I have Porteous in my tree from Holytown, Lanark area.Thank you  The [scotlandspeople]  website is quite excellent!. [Lillia PORTEOUS 14 May 1838]: Probably should read 'Lillias'. As accurate as I currently have it:  Thank You Margaret Ontario  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Those were the instructions given to the enumerators. We don't know why the government did it that way. Somewhere on the freecen.org.uk website(s) are each years instructions. Jo-Ann On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Maisie Egger via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Irked! > > I have been looking at some Scottish marriage and census documents wherein > anyone born in Scotland has the particular district or county identified. > Oftentimes, however, if the person came from Ireland or England (or Wales > even), there is no specific area denoted. For example on a Scottish > census: Jane Doe, born Hamilton, John Doe, born Ireland. > > The same applies to an “English” boat passenger list, as another > example: William Doe, born Leeds, but John Doe, Ireland- no particular > place in Ireland. Those on my tree born in the Southwest of Scotland who > were employed in England in the 1800s were listed on the English census as > being born in Scotland, but other English domestics in the same household > were defined specifically as born is Blackpool, Harrowgate, and so on, not > a ‘generic’ England. Is there some reason for this? > > Maisie > > >

Hi Billy, I have a few Goldies (Robert) married onto my Thorntons, mainly in West Lothian and Midlothian in the late 1880s, if that is of any help. Regards, Jeannette On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Bravaal via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hi, > Looking to hear from anyone with connections to the Goldie family in > Tollcross and Shettleston. One lady had previously posted in 1999 on this > family. is Christine Hadden still on the list? > > regards > billy > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Irked! I have been looking at some Scottish marriage and census documents wherein anyone born in Scotland has the particular district or county identified. Oftentimes, however, if the person came from Ireland or England (or Wales even), there is no specific area denoted. For example on a Scottish census: Jane Doe, born Hamilton, John Doe, born Ireland. The same applies to an “English” boat passenger list, as another example: William Doe, born Leeds, but John Doe, Ireland- no particular place in Ireland. Those on my tree born in the Southwest of Scotland who were employed in England in the 1800s were listed on the English census as being born in Scotland, but other English domestics in the same household were defined specifically as born is Blackpool, Harrowgate, and so on, not a ‘generic’ England. Is there some reason for this? Maisie

Hi Billy, Do you have any info that they may be descended from Ayrshire Goldie / Goudie family lines ? Any census info of where born? Regards Jenny -----Original Message----- From: Bravaal via Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 5:23 AM To: LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Lanark] Goldie, Tollcross Hi, Looking to hear from anyone with connections to the Goldie family in Tollcross and Shettleston. One lady had previously posted in 1999 on this family. is Christine Hadden still on the list? regards billy --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hi, Looking to hear from anyone with connections to the Goldie family in Tollcross and Shettleston. One lady had previously posted in 1999 on this family. is Christine Hadden still on the list? regards billy

Hello: Thank you for such an excellent response!. The [scotlandspeople] website is quite excellent!. [Lillia PORTEOUS 14 May 1838]: Probably should read 'Lillias'. As accurate as I currently have it: === Matthew Blair MURRAY b:30-09-1891 in Bryans? Place, Plains, Lanark, Scotland, d:30-03-1918 [WWI: Grave VI. J. 28, Orchard Dump Cemetery, Pas de Calais, France] [WWI: German Operation Mars, Oppy/Gavrelle], m1:24-12-1914 at Stellarton, Nova Scotia to Helen Davidson CASSELS, daughter of Bryce CASSELS and Jeanie Livingstone Steen. She (HDC) was b:05-02-1894, Law Hill [Not Low Hill], near Law, Lanark, Scotland. Child of Matthew MURRAY and Helen CASSELS is: Bryce Cassels MURRAY, b:10-02-1917, Helen Place, Law, Lanark, Scotland; d:02-02-1982, Bulawayo, Zimbabwe. Bryce Cassels Murray ('Uncle Jock') m. Iris Rebecca Watson (1921-1987) (My mother's aunt). They had 4k, 2s2d, 1s1d died young, 1s1d still living, no further male Murray line. Helen Davidson Cassels/Murray m2:24-09-1919, Residence of Minister, Faulkner Street, Truro, Colchester County, Nova Scotia, Canada to Thomas Patton (Single) b:c.1895, Oxford, Nova Scotia, son of William Patton b:Nova Scotia and Kandas Adgeshade (?). === Kandas Adgeshade (Line 10): https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVBV-16FX : Adgeshade can't be right ?. Can anyone recognise this surname from the image ?. Thanks - Bart [!!!] .... -----Original Message-----

Her name on her marriage record was Catherine Adshade although census and children's marriage records all show her as Candas or variations. She was born abt 1853 in Cumberland County, Nova Scotia to John Adshade & Mary Fortune. She is in a family tree on ancestry.com although they deciphered William's surname as Potter. If you do not have an ancestry.com subscription, I would be willing to give your email address to the tree owner to whom I have given the correct surname for William. Jo-Ann On Tue, Mar 29, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Bart Simon via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hello: Thank you for such an excellent response!. The [scotlandspeople] > website is quite excellent!. [Lillia PORTEOUS 14 May 1838]: Probably should > read 'Lillias'. As accurate as I currently have it: > === > Matthew Blair MURRAY b:30-09-1891 in Bryans? Place, Plains, Lanark, > Scotland, d:30-03-1918 [WWI: Grave VI. J. 28, Orchard Dump Cemetery, Pas de > Calais, France] [WWI: German Operation Mars, Oppy/Gavrelle], m1:24-12-1914 > at Stellarton, Nova Scotia to Helen Davidson CASSELS, daughter of Bryce > CASSELS and Jeanie Livingstone Steen. She (HDC) was b:05-02-1894, Law Hill > [Not Low Hill], near Law, Lanark, Scotland. Child of Matthew MURRAY and > Helen CASSELS is: Bryce Cassels MURRAY, b:10-02-1917, Helen Place, Law, > Lanark, Scotland; d:02-02-1982, Bulawayo, Zimbabwe. Bryce Cassels Murray > ('Uncle Jock') m. Iris Rebecca Watson (1921-1987) (My mother's aunt). They > had 4k, 2s2d, 1s1d died young, 1s1d still living, no further male Murray > line. Helen Davidson Cassels/Murray m2:24-09-1919, Residence of Minister, > Faulkner Street, Truro, Colchester County, Nova Scotia, Canada to Thomas > Patton (Single) b:c.1895, Oxford, Nova Scotia, son of William Patton b:Nova > Scotia and Kandas Adgeshade (?). > === > Kandas Adgeshade (Line 10): > https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVBV-16FX : Adgeshade can't be > right > ?. Can anyone recognise this surname from the image ?. Thanks - Bart [!!!] > .... >

Hi, Looking to get in touch with Christine Hadden ref the above family. regards billy

Hi Bart Have you checked out his Attestation Papers (Service Files of the First World War, 1914-1918 - Canadian Expeditionary Force) for Matthew Blair Murray? In his attestation papers his wife's name is noted as Ellen. It also noted that he had spent four years in the Territorials in Scotland. You can search the database at http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/firs t-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/search.aspx Attestation papers are very interesting, as they give details you may not find elsewhere and include the signature of the soon-to-be soldier. There are normally two pages, so don't forget to check page two. The first page give details of name, address, occupation, etc. The second page gives details such as height, complexion, eye and hair colour, distinguishing marks, etc. Hope this helps. Cheers, Linda -----Original Message----- From: lanark-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lanark-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Bart Simon via Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 12:37 PM To: lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Helen Davidson Cassels [!!!] Hello: Thanks you for all the replies and information!. Yes, that would seem to be the Law Hill in question. To go through a few things: http://canadiangreatwarproject.com/searches/soldierDetail.asp?ID=14113 : It is Matthew Blair Murray d:30-03-1918, not his wife. She went on to m. ? Patton. Then: = Matthew Blair Murray b:1891, Scotland, 23, Parents: Robert + Mary. Sp: Helen D. Cassels b:1894, Law Hill, Scotland, 20, Parents: Bryce + Jeanie*. m:24-12-1914, Stellarton, Pictou, Nova Scotia. = [Bryce + Jeanie*]: She should be [Jeanie* Livingstone Steen]. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ9P-18N https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQDY-KZ1 Jane Livingston Steen bn:03-12-1870 Carluke, Lanark F:Thomas Steen M:Mary Davidson. Jeanie* Livingstone bn:08-11-1870 Milton, Glasgow, Lanark, Steen F:David Steen M:Helen Davidson. = Andrew Davidson m. Jane Livingston had: 1. Mary Davidson bn:30-08-1846 m. Thomas Steen. 2. Helen Livingstone Davidson bn:09-05-1852 New Monkland, Lanark (m. David Steen). !!! !!! !!!. = Law Hill: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/55.74340/-3.87835 : Then if you go just up a bit into Brackenhill where Station Rd crosses the railway line is Law Junction, Thanks GR, looks right and makes complete sense. I have obviously jumped right back into the heartland for Bryce Cassels Murray here, need a bit of time to absorb and sort it out. Cheers - Bart [!!!] .... ================== ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello: Thanks you for all the replies and information!. Yes, that would seem to be the Law Hill in question. To go through a few things: http://canadiangreatwarproject.com/searches/soldierDetail.asp?ID=14113 : It is Matthew Blair Murray d:30-03-1918, not his wife. She went on to m. ? Patton. Then: = Matthew Blair Murray b:1891, Scotland, 23, Parents: Robert + Mary. Sp: Helen D. Cassels b:1894, Law Hill, Scotland, 20, Parents: Bryce + Jeanie*. m:24-12-1914, Stellarton, Pictou, Nova Scotia. = [Bryce + Jeanie*]: She should be [Jeanie* Livingstone Steen]. https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ9P-18N https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQDY-KZ1 Jane Livingston Steen bn:03-12-1870 Carluke, Lanark F:Thomas Steen M:Mary Davidson. Jeanie* Livingstone bn:08-11-1870 Milton, Glasgow, Lanark, Steen F:David Steen M:Helen Davidson. = Andrew Davidson m. Jane Livingston had: 1. Mary Davidson bn:30-08-1846 m. Thomas Steen. 2. Helen Livingstone Davidson bn:09-05-1852 New Monkland, Lanark (m. David Steen). !!! !!! !!!. = Law Hill: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/55.74340/-3.87835 : Then if you go just up a bit into Brackenhill where Station Rd crosses the railway line is Law Junction, Thanks GR, looks right and makes complete sense. I have obviously jumped right back into the heartland for Bryce Cassels Murray here, need a bit of time to absorb and sort it out. Cheers - Bart [!!!] .... ==================

Here is the URL for the 1896 large scale map showing 'Law Hill' (Mauldslie or as this map has it, 'mauldside' - corrupted to'maulds-lee' !!) on the NLS map site :- http://maps.nls.uk/view/82893144 GR --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I am right ! The later event recorded at 'Law Junction' ( the railway Station / yard where the Caledonian Railway joined the Wishaw and Coltness ) clinches it ... It's Carluke Parish - the settlement on the top of Law Hill (Law of Mauldslie on the OS maps) is shown as 'Law Hill' and encompasses the village school, some cottages, a pair of farms, including Stravenhouse. Later 19th C. large scale maps show the 'dissenting' Church and manse on the road that links 'Law Hill' with the village of Law itself. The Church has since been demolished, but the Manse is still there. The Census shows Law as a separate enumeration district, but still part of Carluke Parish, and the Registrar's Office is in Carluke. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  Hi Bart You may find what you are after on Scotland's People http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ [1]   Best wishes Annie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bart Simon" lanark@rootsweb.com To: Cc: Sent:Fri, 25 Mar 2016 01:04:01 +0200 Subject:[Lanark] Helen Davidson Cassels [!!!] Hello: I am new to this list. Helen Davidson Cassels (b:c.1894 Low Hill, Scotland) m:24-12-1914 Stellarton, Nova Scotia to Matthew Blair Murray (bp:30-09-1891 Airdrie, Lanarkshire d:30-03-1918 WWI). Her parents should be Bryce Cassels (b:11-06-1868 Carluke, Lanarkshire) m. ('Jeonie' ???). His parents (MBM) should be Robert Murray and Mary (Blair ?). Matthew Blair Murray and Helen Davidson Cassels have a son Bryce Cassels Murray (b:10-02-1917 Law Junction, Lanarkshire d:1982 Byo, Zim). It seems.... I would like to know the following: 1. Helen Davidson Cassels: Her bp. date/place, her mother’s full name. 2. Robert Murray’s wife Mary (Blair ?): That her surname was Blair, and where and when did they marry ?. 3. Where would (Low Hill, Scotland) be ?. Thanks – Bart [!!!] .... ======================= ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Links: ------ [1] http://www.scotlandspeople.govuk/

Just to add that there are dozens of Law Hills, or hills called Law, in Scotland. Even some Low Hills and low hills. G Russell is probably right, but the only way to be sure is getting that certificate. It will cost you less than a cup of coffee. Anne

Hello Bart, Cassels and Davidson are names found in the Parish of Carluke, South Lanarkshire. The Cassels family even have a street named after them. Your 'Low Hill' is probably a mis-read of Law Hill. The settlement of Law (of Mauldslie) is a 'Quod Sacra' adjunct to Carluke and in the period you mention it was something of a 'boom town' based on its important railway junction ( at Gillhead ) and the surrounding industries of coal, iron and steel making. Law marked the joining of the Caledonian Railway (from Carlisle and southwards) and the Wishaw and Coltness railway - one of the earlest in Scotland. Law Hill is a settlement name, used on the modern UK Ordnance Survey maps on sheet 72 of the second series 1:50000 maps. It is serviced by a minor road, from the 'Cross' in Law Village to Scoularhall near Carluke. There are still houses of that period on both sides of the road. You can see historic maps of your period of interest at the old maps section of the National Library of Scotland's website or view it on Google maps. G Russell Carluke, Scotland --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus