From SURNAMES OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: A CONCISE ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY BY H E N R Y H A R R I S O N 1918 THORNTON (Eng. and Scand.) Bel. to Thornton ; or Dweller at the THORN - Tree ENCLOSURE or FARMSTEAD [O.E. O.N. \orn + O.E. O.N. tun] Thornton, Dorset, occurs in a charter A.D. 958 as 'aet porntune' — dat. The various York. Thorntons appear in Domesday-Bk. as Torentun, Torentune, Tornetun, Torneton, Tornitun ; Lanc. Domesday entries being Torenton, Torentun; Chesh., Torintone. Forms in the Hundred-Rolls (A.D. 1274) are Thorneton, Thorntone. Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 16/04/2016 15:09, Jeannette Walton via wrote: > Thank you, Anne. I shall continue my pursuit of the Thorntons. Here in > America, any time I've said we were Scots, were told "oh no, that's > English" Brrrr. Maybe a few of them headed south, but my line are still > Scots. > > My group were in the West Lothian area and someone married a person from > Shotts. Haven't seen a Duncan yet, but there's always a chance. > > Someone on this list shared the info from Black's book and I've been able > to order one, so it will be another read for me. > > Thanks to all. > Jeannette --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

From SURNAMES OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: A CONCISE ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY BY H E N R Y H A R R I S O N 1918 KEARSLEY (Eng.) Bel. to 1 Kearsley (Lancs), 1501 Keresley [the older form here quoted presupposes the genit. of M.E. ker, a moss (v. under Kerr), rather than M.E. kerse, O.E. caerse, cress - + M.E. ley, O.E, leah, a lea] 2 Kearsley (Fell), Northumberland Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 16/04/2016 16:04, Alexandra Haslip via wrote: > Did I see, in passing, an email which talked about where clusters of a > particular surname might be found in Scotland? I'm working with very little > information on a 3Xgreatgrandfather who came from Scotland, but I have no > idea where to start looking for him. His surname was "KEARSLEY" or a variant > Kersley. Thanks for any help. (& I love this list. It's active & > interesting.) Alexandra --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Thank you, Nivard. Any statistics for the early 1700s? He was born in 1718 and emigrated to the US in 1738. Alexandra -----Original Message----- From: Nivard Ovington [mailto:ovington.one@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 9:14 AM To: Alexandra Haslip; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Jonathan Kearsley Scotland census transcripts on Ancestry KEARSLEY 1871 x 2 1881 x 11 1891 x 7 1901 x 1 Of those in 1881 There are 11 hits 5 males 4 out 5 were born in England 1 born Aberdeen (son of the above) 6 females 5 born Scotland 1 born England KERSLEY 1 hit in the census in 1861 x 1 born England The NT surname profiler shows the largest concentrations around Lancashire, Northumberland in 1881 UK Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 16/04/2016 16:40, Alexandra Haslip wrote: > Thank you, Nivard. I have that information. What I'm looking for is where > there are clusters of the name Kearsleys found in Scotland. For example, I > know there are some around Glasgow and some around Edinburgh. Alexandra > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7539 / Virus Database: 4545/12042 - Release Date: 04/16/16

Does anyone have information about this surname and its origins? Thanks. Lee Keyes Searching for Roger & John Keyes of VA via Ulster & Scotland Ancestral for L1065

I suggest you google these two names and the word surname. The several web sites that sell reports on your name, also give unexpectedly good information on where late medieval records turn up. There are additionally Scottish name references that often contain information of that nature. Google might also find you an entire history if a family by that name is known to have been established in one place. Dora -----Original Message----- From: Alexandra Haslip via Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 10:04 AM To: lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland Did I see, in passing, an email which talked about where clusters of a particular surname might be found in Scotland? I'm working with very little information on a 3Xgreatgrandfather who came from Scotland, but I have no idea where to start looking for him. His surname was "KEARSLEY" or a variant Kersley. Thanks for any help. (& I love this list. It's active & interesting.) Alexandra ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you, Anne. I shall continue my pursuit of the Thorntons. Here in America, any time I've said we were Scots, were told "oh no, that's English" Brrrr. Maybe a few of them headed south, but my line are still Scots. My group were in the West Lothian area and someone married a person from Shotts. Haven't seen a Duncan yet, but there's always a chance. Someone on this list shared the info from Black's book and I've been able to order one, so it will be another read for me. Thanks to all. Jeannette On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 4:50 AM, Anne Burgess via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Thornton is reasonably straightfoward - from Old English meaning 'thorn' > and the suffix '-ton' which again is Old English and means a farm. So it's > a place name from a place which is thorny. I know what G F Black says, but > it's entirely possible for the surname to have originated independently in > one of several places of the same name as well as in the Mearns. > I can think of a Thornton in Fife and another in Angus, and a Thorntoun in > Ayrshire. > > There is a concentration of the surname around West Lothian and > Lanarkshire. > My 4th-great-grandfather was Duncan Thornton, who farmed at Hirst in the > parish of Shotts in the late 18th century. It must have been a pretty hard > life because it's poor farmland, heavy, wet and boggy in spite of being > high up and pretty exposed to the worst of the weather. He had 11 recorded > children by two marriages. Two daughters died young, another daughter died > unmarried at a ripe old age, and one son was my 3rd-great-grandfather. I > have no idea what became of the other two sone and five daughters. They may > also have died young, or moved away, or emigrated. As for Duncan, I have no > idea where he came from. > > Anne > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

That 'Scotsman' article is a bit thin! The original article is at http://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/names/most-common-surnames-in-birth-marriage-and-death-registers The GROS published a booklet several years ago that looked at the numbers of various surnames. I don't have it to hand, but the thing that sticks in my mind is that if you combined names beginning with 'Mac' and the names beginning with 'Mc' the picture was rather different. M*donald came second to Smith, and M*Leod and some others were well up the list as well. This also seems to be the case with these figures. Anne

Thornton is reasonably straightfoward - from Old English meaning 'thorn' and the suffix '-ton' which again is Old English and means a farm. So it's a place name from a place which is thorny. I know what G F Black says, but it's entirely possible for the surname to have originated independently in one of several places of the same name as well as in the Mearns.  I can think of a Thornton in Fife and another in Angus, and a Thorntoun in Ayrshire. There is a concentration of the surname around West Lothian and Lanarkshire.  My 4th-great-grandfather was Duncan Thornton, who farmed at Hirst in the parish of Shotts in the late 18th century. It must have been a pretty hard life because it's poor farmland, heavy, wet and boggy in spite of being high up and pretty exposed to the worst of the weather. He had 11 recorded children by two marriages. Two daughters died young, another daughter died unmarried at a ripe old age, and one son was my 3rd-great-grandfather. I have no idea what became of the other two sone and five daughters. They may also have died young, or moved away, or emigrated. As for Duncan, I have no idea where he came from. Anne

Thank you, Nivard. I have that information. What I'm looking for is where there are clusters of the name Kearsleys found in Scotland. For example, I know there are some around Glasgow and some around Edinburgh. Alexandra -----Original Message----- From: lanark-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lanark-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Nivard Ovington via Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2016 8:23 AM To: lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland From SURNAMES OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: A CONCISE ETYMOLOGICAL DICTIONARY BY H E N R Y H A R R I S O N 1918 KEARSLEY (Eng.) Bel. to 1 Kearsley (Lancs), 1501 Keresley [the older form here quoted presupposes the genit. of M.E. ker, a moss (v. under Kerr), rather than M.E. kerse, O.E. caerse, cress - + M.E. ley, O.E, leah, a lea] 2 Kearsley (Fell), Northumberland Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK) On 16/04/2016 16:04, Alexandra Haslip via wrote: > Did I see, in passing, an email which talked about where clusters of a > particular surname might be found in Scotland? I'm working with very > little information on a 3Xgreatgrandfather who came from Scotland, but > I have no idea where to start looking for him. His surname was > "KEARSLEY" or a variant Kersley. Thanks for any help. (& I love this > list. It's active & > interesting.) Alexandra --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7539 / Virus Database: 4545/12042 - Release Date: 04/16/16

It's more likely to be Gow than Gowan. 'Gobha' is the Gaelic for 'smith'. The 'bh' combination is barely pronounced in Gaelic, and it is anglicised as Gow. A gowan is a sort of daisy. Anne From: Dora Smith via <lanark@rootsweb.com> To: Maisie Egger <campsiehills@sbcglobal.net>; lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, 15 April 2016, 1:50 Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland The top name is Smith!  LOLOLOL!  That makes me TRULY Scottish. Seriously, my brother's Y DNA traces to the narrow end of the Forth of Firth.  But the name was God knows what when it left Scotland, and it could have been Gowan, which means Smith.  It was often changed in Ireland. Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger via Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 12:46 PM To: LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland http://www.scotsman.com/news/is-your-surname-among-the-20-most-common-in-scotland-1-4100176 Out of the 20 names listed, I can claim four on my tree to make me truly Scottish (?): (2) Brown, (5) Thomson, (8 ) Anderson, (15) Young Anderson is not really a clan name, so one might say that all four names are generic with no particular claim to Scotland.  The only hielan’ blood that I can claim are two by the name of McLean and McDougall, but the female progeny did not carry the names down through the generations.  My ‘lot’ seem to be rooted mainly in the Southwest area and Central Belt/Lanarkshire areas of Scotland.  Throw in a spot of Irish and English and I can claim to be one of Jock Tamson’s bairns. Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Did I see, in passing, an email which talked about where clusters of a particular surname might be found in Scotland? I'm working with very little information on a 3Xgreatgrandfather who came from Scotland, but I have no idea where to start looking for him. His surname was "KEARSLEY" or a variant Kersley. Thanks for any help. (& I love this list. It's active & interesting.) Alexandra

Hello: Thornton would probably pertain to a place name in many cases I would think ?. I have no idea which are your Thornton. You will find families of Thornton m. into families like: Alexander Leslie-Melville, Earl of Leven m. Jane Thornton. Richard Rich [1 Baron Rich Lord Chancellor England] had Audrey 'Ethelreda' Rich m. Robert Drury and had Anne Drury m. John Thornton. [High marriage]. William Wright of Plowland in Holderness Yorks m. Ann Thornton b:c.1530? of Thornton Yorks, who connect near those involved in the Powder Plot. [High marriage]. http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=thornton : Irish. http://irishdeedsindex.net/search/index.php : Still being much transcribed for some time yet. Try a surname only search to start off with. https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Thornton?iframe=ycolorized : To have any immediate idea of which Thornton family one might belong to (or NOT!), a DNA test must be done. (or NOT!): Just as important, you can drop off wods of known lines that are not yours. The Domesday Book of 1086 lists 24 places called Thornton. [Johan de Thorntone]: Sounds more towards a 'town' name, and [James Thorntoune Glasgow 1685] the same, which seems a very late date for this spelling, so you could also expect a surname spelling change any time soon. But, for my own meager English research, it seems that mainly the upper gentry took on the names of places, to the greater extent ?. But 1720 I feel is well too late for a surname origin, depending of course how famous in antiquity the family may be. Origins mostly go back hundreds of years before this ?. What are the top 20 SURNAMES or so in Scotland ?. Bart .... -----Original Message----- Now I'm trying to find the origin of THORNTON. Many say it's English, but so far I have mine back to 1720s in West Lothian then Lanarkshire. ---------------------------------

The name is derived from the Gaelic " Ghobhainn " meaning Blacksmith or Smith. It is pronounced Gowan. MacGowan is son of the smith. Another wee Gaelic lesson, Maisie. I am not an expert, just interested in the language after years of climbing Scottish mountains and learning meanings and pronunciation. Archie Gilbert. -----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger via Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 3:07 AM To: Dora Smith ; LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland To add to the name mix: Definition of gowan chiefly Scottish : daisy 1; broadly : a white or yellow field flower gowany play \-ə-nē\ adjective, chiefly Scottish ---------------------------------------------- Robert Burns referred to the daisies as gowans. The field daisy is very small (think of the ones used to make daisy chains, but the gowan is a much larger daisy, depending on where it grows. -----------------------------------------------. Auld Lang Syne We twa hae run about the braes, and pu’d the gowans fine ; But we’ve wander’d mony a weary fit, sin auld lang syne. ...and more: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jmack/mcgowan/name.htm Maisie ------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 5:50 PM To: Maisie Egger ; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland The top name is Smith! LOLOLOL! That makes me TRULY Scottish. Seriously, my brother's Y DNA traces to the narrow end of the Forth of Firth. But the name was God knows what when it left Scotland, and it could have been Gowan, which means Smith. It was often changed in Ireland. Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger via Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 12:46 PM To: LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland http://www.scotsman.com/news/is-your-surname-among-the-20-most-common-in-scotland-1-4100176 Out of the 20 names listed, I can claim four on my tree to make me truly Scottish (?): (2) Brown, (5) Thomson, (8 ) Anderson, (15) Young Anderson is not really a clan name, so one might say that all four names are generic with no particular claim to Scotland. The only hielan’ blood that I can claim are two by the name of McLean and McDougall, but the female progeny did not carry the names down through the generations. My ‘lot’ seem to be rooted mainly in the Southwest area and Central Belt/Lanarkshire areas of Scotland. Throw in a spot of Irish and English and I can claim to be one of Jock Tamson’s bairns. Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A good book on the source of Scottish surnames is *The Surnames of Scotland *by George F Black. He has this to say: THORNTON. From the lands ofThornton in the Mearns. The first of the nameto appear is Laurence de Thoneton, witness in a deedby Henry, abbot of Arbroath, c. 1204-11 (RAA., i, p 117). John of Thornton, burgess of Montrose, and Johan de Thorntone0f the county of Kicardyn en Miernes, rendered homage in 1296 (Bain,ii, p 198, 209). In 1299 Walter de Thorneton, a Scots prisoner of war, who was exchanged for an esquire of Sir William de Cathcart, is probably Walter de Thornetone, executor of Marie, countess of Stratherne in the same year. There is more, so there is quite a lot of information out there. Best Regards, Iain McKenzie Glasgow On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 3:57 PM, Jeannette Walton via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > This discussion on the Onomastic naming pattern is great, but... It leads > to great confusion in family research for me. On my tree, I have 19 Peter > Thorntons, and only 2 have middle names. Similar records for William and > James. When searching, I need to find wives, as even birth years don't > work when brothers would have sons in the same year! > > Now I'm trying to find the origin of THORNTON. Many say it's English, but > so far I have mine back to 1720s in West Lothian then Lanarkshire. Last > week I found one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence in > America was Matthew Thornton who was born in Ireland in 1714 and emigrated > with his parents in 1717. > > So my search continues. If anyone has any clues or comments, please let > me know. > > Thank you, > Jeannette, daughter of a Thornton from Ferniegair > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 3:38 AM, Jose Jones via <lanark@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > > Coincidentally, I had just been trying to identify some ancestors using > > the traditional Scottish parental naming system when this email arrived. > > > > I found a very good article explaining the difference between the > > traditional parental Scottish and the ancestral Scottish naming patterns > ( > > http://www.johnbrobb.com/Content/TheScottishOnomasticPattern.pdf). > > > > However, based on the article, you might be interested to know that in > the > > 18th and 19th centuries over 72% of sons were called John, James, > William, > > Alexander or Robert and nearly 69% of daughters were called Margaret, > Mary, > > Jennet, Elizabeth, Jean or Ann - so, no wonder there is such confusion! > ... > > especially if combined with Smith or Brown! > > > > Jose > > > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On 14 Apr 2016, at 19:46, Maisie Egger via <lanark@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > http://www.scotsman.com/news/is-your-surname-among-the-20-most-common-in-scotland-1-4100176 > > > > > > Out of the 20 names listed, I can claim four on my tree to make me > truly > > Scottish (?): > > > > > > (2) Brown, (5) Thomson, (8 ) Anderson, (15) Young > > > > > > Anderson is not really a clan name, so one might say that all four > names > > are generic with no particular claim to Scotland. The only hielan’ blood > > that I can claim are two by the name of McLean and McDougall, but the > > female progeny did not carry the names down through the generations. My > > ‘lot’ seem to be rooted mainly in the Southwest area and Central > > Belt/Lanarkshire areas of Scotland. Throw in a spot of Irish and English > > and I can claim to be one of Jock Tamson’s bairns. > > > > > > Maisie > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > > > > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click > on > > the following link to the list information page online: > > > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on > > the following link to the list information page online: > > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

When my niece who lives in Lenzie, north of Glasgow, wrote that her elementary aged son had recited the Sair Finger in his class, it brought me up short that we never were exposed to any poems or literature in the vernacular when I attended school, except for the poems of Robert Burns. We were totally discouraged from using anything but standard English. Of late, there’s been a movement afoot to encourage the use of ‘dialectical’ works, among which are some easy poems for young school children, such as the Sair Finger. At this time I am reading James Barke’s Land of the Leal, in which Barke uses much of the dialect of Southwest Scotland, which is almost like a foreign language to those of us from such as Lanarkshire, or other areas of Scotland. Aberdeen, Angus and other parts of the east coast have their own speech patterns. Leal means faithful and true, but it has also been expressed as being where one goes in the afterlife. I doubt if this word is used nowadays. Some ‘proper’ Scots words or expressions are still retained in legal parlance, such as Not proven A verdict or decision of acquittal of an accused person. A sheriff is equivalent to a trial judge for one. When in court they are bewigged and gowned. A supposition on my part: it is most likely that many of our forebears used their local dialect, until the Scottish Education Act in 1875 (?) when a standard English curriculum particularly discouraged local speech patterns, with much emphasis being placed on learning a (European) foreign language starting at a very young age. (In my own case a choice of French, German, Latin at the age of 11 plus when one entered Secondary school). Maisie http://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poetry/tags/early-20th-century-scottish-poems On this day in 1865, children's poet Walter Wingate was born in Dalry, Ayrshire. Wingate was the son of David Wingate, a noted local poet in Ayrshire, known as the "Collier Poet". Walter was also a noted watercolour artist in his lifetime, but is best remembered today for his volume of children's poetry which was published in 1919. His poems such as Sair Finger are much loved for their gentle humour.

This discussion on the Onomastic naming pattern is great, but... It leads to great confusion in family research for me. On my tree, I have 19 Peter Thorntons, and only 2 have middle names. Similar records for William and James. When searching, I need to find wives, as even birth years don't work when brothers would have sons in the same year! Now I'm trying to find the origin of THORNTON. Many say it's English, but so far I have mine back to 1720s in West Lothian then Lanarkshire. Last week I found one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence in America was Matthew Thornton who was born in Ireland in 1714 and emigrated with his parents in 1717. So my search continues. If anyone has any clues or comments, please let me know. Thank you, Jeannette, daughter of a Thornton from Ferniegair On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 3:38 AM, Jose Jones via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Coincidentally, I had just been trying to identify some ancestors using > the traditional Scottish parental naming system when this email arrived. > > I found a very good article explaining the difference between the > traditional parental Scottish and the ancestral Scottish naming patterns ( > http://www.johnbrobb.com/Content/TheScottishOnomasticPattern.pdf). > > However, based on the article, you might be interested to know that in the > 18th and 19th centuries over 72% of sons were called John, James, William, > Alexander or Robert and nearly 69% of daughters were called Margaret, Mary, > Jennet, Elizabeth, Jean or Ann - so, no wonder there is such confusion! ... > especially if combined with Smith or Brown! > > Jose > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 14 Apr 2016, at 19:46, Maisie Egger via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > > > > http://www.scotsman.com/news/is-your-surname-among-the-20-most-common-in-scotland-1-4100176 > > > > Out of the 20 names listed, I can claim four on my tree to make me truly > Scottish (?): > > > > (2) Brown, (5) Thomson, (8 ) Anderson, (15) Young > > > > Anderson is not really a clan name, so one might say that all four names > are generic with no particular claim to Scotland. The only hielan’ blood > that I can claim are two by the name of McLean and McDougall, but the > female progeny did not carry the names down through the generations. My > ‘lot’ seem to be rooted mainly in the Southwest area and Central > Belt/Lanarkshire areas of Scotland. Throw in a spot of Irish and English > and I can claim to be one of Jock Tamson’s bairns. > > > > Maisie > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Coincidentally, I had just been trying to identify some ancestors using the traditional Scottish parental naming system when this email arrived. I found a very good article explaining the difference between the traditional parental Scottish and the ancestral Scottish naming patterns (http://www.johnbrobb.com/Content/TheScottishOnomasticPattern.pdf). However, based on the article, you might be interested to know that in the 18th and 19th centuries over 72% of sons were called John, James, William, Alexander or Robert and nearly 69% of daughters were called Margaret, Mary, Jennet, Elizabeth, Jean or Ann - so, no wonder there is such confusion! ... especially if combined with Smith or Brown! Jose Sent from my iPad > On 14 Apr 2016, at 19:46, Maisie Egger via <lanark@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > http://www.scotsman.com/news/is-your-surname-among-the-20-most-common-in-scotland-1-4100176 > > Out of the 20 names listed, I can claim four on my tree to make me truly Scottish (?): > > (2) Brown, (5) Thomson, (8 ) Anderson, (15) Young > > Anderson is not really a clan name, so one might say that all four names are generic with no particular claim to Scotland. The only hielan’ blood that I can claim are two by the name of McLean and McDougall, but the female progeny did not carry the names down through the generations. My ‘lot’ seem to be rooted mainly in the Southwest area and Central Belt/Lanarkshire areas of Scotland. Throw in a spot of Irish and English and I can claim to be one of Jock Tamson’s bairns. > > Maisie > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. > > You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Archie, you know more Gaelic than probably anyone on this list, so we'll pay heed. I have to go to 'published sources' for information, ergo: The McGowan name is mentioned as having its roots in Ireland, with the Irish Gaelic (Erse) spelling. When it crossed the channel then the spelling was changed. Have you noticed that it is more P.C. nowadays to refer to the form of Gaelic from Eire as Irish Gaelic rather than Erse. Now I just wonder why, maybe something to do with the way Glesga folk, for example, pronounce certain words! Maisie -----Original Message----- From: Archie Gilbert Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 9:06 AM To: Maisie Egger ; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland The name is derived from the Gaelic " Ghobhainn " meaning Blacksmith or Smith. It is pronounced Gowan. MacGowan is son of the smith. Another wee Gaelic lesson, Maisie. I am not an expert, just interested in the language after years of climbing Scottish mountains and learning meanings and pronunciation. Archie Gilbert. -----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger via Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 3:07 AM To: Dora Smith ; LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland To add to the name mix: Definition of gowan chiefly Scottish : daisy 1; broadly : a white or yellow field flower gowany play \-ə-nē\ adjective, chiefly Scottish ---------------------------------------------- Robert Burns referred to the daisies as gowans. The field daisy is very small (think of the ones used to make daisy chains, but the gowan is a much larger daisy, depending on where it grows. -----------------------------------------------. Auld Lang Syne We twa hae run about the braes, and pu’d the gowans fine ; But we’ve wander’d mony a weary fit, sin auld lang syne. ...and more: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jmack/mcgowan/name.htm Maisie ------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 5:50 PM To: Maisie Egger ; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland The top name is Smith! LOLOLOL! That makes me TRULY Scottish. Seriously, my brother's Y DNA traces to the narrow end of the Forth of Firth. But the name was God knows what when it left Scotland, and it could have been Gowan, which means Smith. It was often changed in Ireland. Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger via Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 12:46 PM To: LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland http://www.scotsman.com/news/is-your-surname-among-the-20-most-common-in-scotland-1-4100176 Out of the 20 names listed, I can claim four on my tree to make me truly Scottish (?): (2) Brown, (5) Thomson, (8 ) Anderson, (15) Young Anderson is not really a clan name, so one might say that all four names are generic with no particular claim to Scotland. The only hielan’ blood that I can claim are two by the name of McLean and McDougall, but the female progeny did not carry the names down through the generations. My ‘lot’ seem to be rooted mainly in the Southwest area and Central Belt/Lanarkshire areas of Scotland. Throw in a spot of Irish and English and I can claim to be one of Jock Tamson’s bairns. Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The top name is Smith! LOLOLOL! That makes me TRULY Scottish. Seriously, my brother's Y DNA traces to the narrow end of the Forth of Firth. But the name was God knows what when it left Scotland, and it could have been Gowan, which means Smith. It was often changed in Ireland. Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger via Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 12:46 PM To: LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland http://www.scotsman.com/news/is-your-surname-among-the-20-most-common-in-scotland-1-4100176 Out of the 20 names listed, I can claim four on my tree to make me truly Scottish (?): (2) Brown, (5) Thomson, (8 ) Anderson, (15) Young Anderson is not really a clan name, so one might say that all four names are generic with no particular claim to Scotland. The only hielan’ blood that I can claim are two by the name of McLean and McDougall, but the female progeny did not carry the names down through the generations. My ‘lot’ seem to be rooted mainly in the Southwest area and Central Belt/Lanarkshire areas of Scotland. Throw in a spot of Irish and English and I can claim to be one of Jock Tamson’s bairns. Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as LANARK@Rootsweb.com. You may contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

To add to the name mix: Definition of gowan chiefly Scottish : daisy 1; broadly : a white or yellow field flower gowany play \-ə-nē\ adjective, chiefly Scottish ---------------------------------------------- Robert Burns referred to the daisies as gowans. The field daisy is very small (think of the ones used to make daisy chains, but the gowan is a much larger daisy, depending on where it grows. -----------------------------------------------. Auld Lang Syne We twa hae run about the braes, and pu’d the gowans fine ; But we’ve wander’d mony a weary fit, sin auld lang syne. ...and more: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jmack/mcgowan/name.htm Maisie ------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Dora Smith Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 5:50 PM To: Maisie Egger ; lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland The top name is Smith! LOLOLOL! That makes me TRULY Scottish. Seriously, my brother's Y DNA traces to the narrow end of the Forth of Firth. But the name was God knows what when it left Scotland, and it could have been Gowan, which means Smith. It was often changed in Ireland. Dora Smith -----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger via Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 12:46 PM To: LANARK@rootsweb.com Subject: [Lanark] Twenty most common names in Scotland http://www.scotsman.com/news/is-your-surname-among-the-20-most-common-in-scotland-1-4100176 Out of the 20 names listed, I can claim four on my tree to make me truly Scottish (?): (2) Brown, (5) Thomson, (8 ) Anderson, (15) Young Anderson is not really a clan name, so one might say that all four names are generic with no particular claim to Scotland. The only hielan’ blood that I can claim are two by the name of McLean and McDougall, but the female progeny did not carry the names down through the generations. My ‘lot’ seem to be rooted mainly in the Southwest area and Central Belt/Lanarkshire areas of Scotland. Throw in a spot of Irish and English and I can claim to be one of Jock Tamson’s bairns. Maisie