I am just starting Scottish research, so, please excuse any errors. I am looking for information on William Grove and Elizabeth Tassie who married 28 Dec. 1866 at Govan, Lanark. I believe that she was the daughter of Elizabeth Barclay Russell and George Tassie. William may have been the son of Edward Grove and Mary McColl. William Grove and Elizabeth Tassie had several children: some did not live, the three who did were George, b 1870, Edward b 1873, and, Mary b 1877. William died sometime after Mary was conceived as the widow, Ellizabeth Grove and the three children arrived in America in 1879 on the Ship Bolivia. They went to Otterttail Co., Minnesota where there was an Elizabeth Tassie living. What relation was she to them? Any information on this family will be greatly appreciated. Shirlee Crow

Hello Glenys Sorry, the closest I have to McDonalds Is a McLeod and a mysterious middle name of McDugal. I wish I could help. The couple you found are mine. After marriage they disappear until they turn up in Govan, but other than Robert witnessing Mary's death certificate in 1879, he disappears again. Well thanks for looking and good hunting. Michael > > > > ________________________________ >

Ian Mair,        I had a somewhat similar situation with my ancestor, Margaret Kenedy (Ross) McIntyre.  She was b.   1819 in Dumfries, and when m. she was Margaret Kennedy Ross, and for the birth of her subsequent children she was some form of the same name.  On her death record, it listed her parents as William Neilson & Elizabeth Henderson.         I finally found her birth, and it was listed under Kennedy/Neilson, her mother was listed as Elizabeth Neilson.  A month or so later when she was Christened, her father was named Robert Ross.  I never did find out the first name of the Kennedy.        The reason her parents were recorded as Wm. Neilson & Eliz. Henderson is because they were the grandparents, and the son who was the informant must have thought they were his grandparents, instead of his gr. grandparents.        Maybe your ancestor's mother had remarried a Clelland, and so some of her children thought her maiden name was Clelland.   Marc --- On Thu, 8/5/10, Ian Mair <r.i.mair@bigpond.net.au> wrote: From: Ian Mair <r.i.mair@bigpond.net.au> Subject: [Lanark] A name conundrum To: lanark@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, August 5, 2010, 6:24 AM Hello List I have a perplexing conundrum! My 2x great grandmother, Margaret Thomson (b.abt 1827 in West Calder) married John Weir (b 21 June 1829 in Whitburn). Her death record of 1907 lists her parents (my 3x great grandparents) as Thomas Thomson and Barbara Thomson (nee McLean). There is a marriage bann listed in the OPRs for West Calder between Thomas Thomson and Barbara McLean. The 1841 census records a Thomas Thomson living in West Lothian with wife Barbara and sons James (b1829), Thomas (b.abt 1933) and William (b.abt 1839). My 2x great grandmother who would have been about 14-15 years is presumably not at home. There is a record for a Margaret Thomson, 15 years, working as a FS at Braehead, Whitburn Parish, which seems close enough to the family home to be a possibility. The 1851 census records a Barbara Thomson living in Whitburn Parish, West Lothian with sons James, Thomas and William and daughter Jane (b.abt 1842). The 1861 census records Barbara Thomson living in Whitburn Parish, West Lothian with sons Thomas and William, daughters Jane and granddaughter Catherine. And so on ..... Now the conundrum!! As stated above the death record for daughter Margaret Thomson records her mother's maiden name as McLean, as does her mother's marriage bann. The apparent death record for son James Thomson records his mother's maiden name as Clelland. All other details match what would be expected. There is also an OPR birth record in Whitburn Parish for a James Thomson with mother's maiden name of Clelland. The apparent death record for son Thomas Thomson records his mother's maiden name as Clelland. The informant was his brother James Thomson. The apparent death record for son William Thomson records his mother's maiden name as McLean. The apparent death record for daughter Jane Thomson records her mother's maiden name as McLean. The death record for Barbara Thomson witnessed by her son Thomas Thomson lists her maiden name as Clelland. There is no matching record in Scotland's People or Family Search for a marriage between a Thomas Thomson and a Barbara Clelland. There is no record to indicate that Barbara Thomson (nee McLean) re-married after her husband Thomas Thomson's death, apparently sometime between 1841 and 1851. I have checked for a Barbara Thomson or a Barbara McLean marrying a Clelland. I have probably left out some important detail, however, the question is, are Barbara McLean and Barbara Clelland the same person and what explanation could there be for the name change? Could it be that some of the children (notably James and Thomas) just had Barbara Thomson's maiden name wrong and it was recorded incorrectly in the death records of Barbara Thomson and her sons James and Thomas? Did the registrar of the birth of James Thomson get the mother's maiden name wrong and recorded Clelland instead of McLean which caused the confusion? I have not found any OPR record of the birth on any of the siblings of James. The presumption from the available information is that Barbara McLean and Barbara Clelland are the same person, but is this justifiable? Any thoughts, insights or challenges would be appreciated. Ian Mair Melbourne, Australia   ------------------------------- LANARK, SCOTLAND MAILING LIST LIST TOPIC:  The discussion and research of genealogy or history information pertaining to Lanark, Scotland at any point in its history. WHEN REPLYING to any list post please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply LIST INFORMATION PAGE:  Contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com; or to search the list archives, get information on subscribing or unsubscribing, or to obtain other useful information to help you use the list more effectively, please click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Michael,   sorry I do not have anything on Robert & Mary,  Just that they were married on 9th Dec. 1850 I have tried Scotlandspeople but there is no children born between 1850-1860 sorry I cannot help you. What do you have on the McDondalds? my McDonalds are:-   Elizabeth McDonald m Alexander Campbell 19-7-1816. Thanks. Glenys ________________________________ From: michael paton <voyager87@gmail.com> To: lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 5 August, 2010 8:40:42 AM Subject: Re: [Lanark] MacDonald's in Old Monkland Hi Glenys     Do you happen to have a Robert Muir c1814 married Mary Paton in Paisley m1850. Mary died 1879 in Govan, but I can't find anything on Robert or whether they had children Regards Michael   ------------------------------- LANARK, SCOTLAND MAILING LIST LIST TOPIC:  The discussion and research of genealogy or history information pertaining to Lanark, Scotland at any point in its history. WHEN REPLYING to any list post please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply LIST INFORMATION PAGE:  Contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com; or to search the list archives, get information on subscribing or unsubscribing, or to obtain other useful information to help you use the list more effectively, please click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Perhaps he could the answer to our dearly beloved, & missed Duncan , who gave us so many detailed & descriptive passages re Scotland? Not that Duncan could ever be replaced , but G.Russel seems to also have the knack of painting interesting pictures with his words. Hope we hear more from him! Thanks, G.R.! Ruth

More ... on Carnwath / Kaimend .... Carnwath is the Parish - all records available via the ScotlandsPeople website (pre-payment needed) GGR

Hello Rosemary, Kaimend is a tiny settlement, on the eastern side of Carnwath, whose name reflects its topography ! A 'kaim' or kame or 'drumlin' is the Scots word for the gently rolling sandhills and piles of glacial 'outwash' - sand and smoothly rolled boulders - that are the last traces of the meltwater streams that flowed along the bottoms of ancient glaciers that covered this area in the last ice age ... Kaimend sits literally at the end of the largest set of these in the Clyde / Mouse valley. The landscape to the north west and north east of Carnwath is formed of these ancient sandhills - a landscape that mimics Switzerland in its glaciated traces, but without the mountains !. It was mostly an 'estate village' for workers in the Bertram House estate - farm and agricultural 'servants' and sits to the north of the river and the famous 'Carnwath Mill' that features in the Scots song known worldwide as ' No Awa' tae Bide Awa'. Robert Burns ( the Poet) spent a rollicking weekend here in the late 1700's and changed horses here on his way to publish the 'Kilmarnock Edition' of his famous poems at Edinburgh. Archibald Prentice of Covington Mill and his brother who had the Bank ( a farm) in Carnwath were his hosts ... Carnwath is a very ancient little town, of Norman origin, that grew around a 'Motte and Bailey' Castle on an earth mound, and a small 'Chapel of Ease' established to expiate the sins of the Baron de Sommerville and his families ... Its streets still show the 'higgledy piggledy' edges of the feudal plots for houses and shops (nothing follows a straight line in Carnwath ...). Nowadays, it has a few small shops, and houses, a good golf course ( round the Castle mound), the old Church and the Parish Church / Cemetery. Most folk will travel out to work, or work in the nearby State Hospital or maybe on the small industrial estate on the east side of the Town. Farming is the major activity in the area and part of the sandhills are being quarried (erratically) as the demand for concrete rises and falls. You can have a look at both Carnwath and Kaimend / Bertram House via Google Earth ... G Russell Carluke ( about 7 miles from Carnwath )

Hi: I am almost afraid to respond to this message. Am I supposed to change the subject line? Why? In any event I want to thank Mr./Mrs/Ms Russell for the wonderful history. It does not mean anything to my family tree but it was a wonderful message that we need more of on this mail list. I almost wish my ancestors were from Kaiment or Carnwath so I could include it in my Genealogy. Thank you again. Frank Easton Sherwood Park Alberta. -----Original Message----- From: lanark-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:lanark-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of G Russell Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:18 PM To: lanark@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Lanark] Kaimend & Carnwath Hello Rosemary, Kaimend is a tiny settlement, on the eastern side of Carnwath, whose name reflects its topography !

> I am doing some organizing and have come across certifcates > that have no relation > to me but that may be of some use to > other listers. Why not put them on the Scottish BDM Exchange web site http://www.sctbdm.com/index.php ? Anne

> Generations of her > family lived in Carnwath & Kaimend (which had various > spellings in the > censuses over the decades). Please can anyone tell me more > about these > places - was Kaimend a hamlet? Have a look at http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS9846 http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NS9945 http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/161854 http://www.carnwath.org.uk/ HTH Anne

> My gg grandparents' marriage certificate lists the bride's > name as Ann > Harvie or Boag. I've found other instances of this in the > Scottish Census. > What is the significance of the second name? Is it a > previous marriage, > mother's name? It depends. Legally, in Scotland a woman's surname does not change when she marries, so if Jean Brown marries John Smith, she will be described in legal and certain other documents either as 'Jean Brown or Smith' or as 'Jean Brown wife/widow/relict of John Smith'. It is merely a convention that she is known informally as 'Jean Smith' However there is another situation, which is when someone is born illegitimate. In such cases they are occasionally described by both their father's and their mother's names. It also sometimes occurs if someone has been adopted by a step-parent. You don't say when and where this marriage took place, so it's impossible to be certain, but a previous marriage is the most likely explanation. In this case the certificate should say that she is widowed (or divorced). Her death certificate should also tell you the names of both her husbands. HTH Anne

Christine, regarding the following marriage you posted: Marriage: 1875 New Monkland Thomas Allardice (21) to Marion Knox (23). Thomas's parents are Wm & Marion Allardice. Marion's parents are James & Janet Knox. Wedding took place August 13, 1875 I would be very appreciative if you were able to scan/email (?) a copy. Thank you so much for posting all the data that you did. I am sure if not today, at some time you will make a few researchers very happy. Thanks again, Ruth Sprowls

Hi Glenys Do you happen to have a Robert Muir c1814 married Mary Paton in Paisley m1850. Mary died 1879 in Govan, but I can't find anything on Robert or whether they had children Regards Michael

I am doing some organizing and have come across certifcates that have no relation to me but that may be of some use to other listers. If you wish a copy of the document, please contact me off list. Christine Marriage: 1875 New Monkland Thomas Allardice (21) to Marion Knox (23). Thomas's parents are Wm & Marion Allardice. Marion's parents are James & Janet Knox. Wedding took place August 13, 1875. Death: November 7 1897 New Monkland James Millar aged 5 yrs son of Thomas & Isabella Millar (Roughrigg) Death: November 7 1897 New Monkland Annie Connor aged 2 months daughter of John & Annie Connor (Meadowfield by Airdrie)'' Marriage: 1871 Hamilton Robert Baird (30) to Maggie Ross (23). Roberts parents are John & Margaret Baird. Maggie's parents are Alexander Ross (deceased) and Marion Ross. Wedding took place 28th April 1871. 1882 Births in New Monkland: April 2 - Jane Swan daughter of George & Sarah (Rigghead) May 2 - unnamed baby girl Campbell daughter of Robert & Betty (Roughrigg) 1887 Births in Airdrie: June 16th Sarah Elizabeth Mitchell daughter of David & Elizabeth June 11th Neil O'Neil son of James & Catherine 1877 Births in New Monklnad: May 13th David Sharpe son of David & Margaret (Leehead?) June 1st Margaret Dick, illegitimate, daughter of James Dick and Helen Courie(?)

I am doing some organizing and have come across certifcates that have no relation to me but that may be of some use to other listers. If you wish a copy of the document, please contact me off list. Christine Marriage: 1875 New Monkland Thomas Allardice (21) to Marion Knox (23). Thomas's parents are Wm & Marion Allardice. Marion's parents are James & Janet Knox. Wedding took place August 13, 1875. Death: November 7 1897 New Monkland James Millar aged 5 yrs son of Thomas & Isabella Millar (Roughrigg) Death: November 7 1897 New Monkland Annie Connor aged 2 months daughter of John & Annie Connor (Meadowfield by Airdrie)'' Marriage: 1871 Hamilton Robert Baird (30) to Maggie Ross (23). Roberts parents are John & Margaret Baird. Maggie's parents are Alexander Ross (deceased) and Marion Ross. Wedding took place 28th April 1871. 1882 Births in New Monkland: April 2 - Jane Swan daughter of George & Sarah (Rigghead) May 2 - unnamed baby girl Campbell daughter of Robert & Betty (Roughrigg) 1887 Births in Airdrie: June 16th Sarah Elizabeth Mitchell daughter of David & Elizabeth June 11th Neil O'Neil son of James & Catherine 1877 Births in New Monklnad: May 13th David Sharpe son of David & Margaret (Leehead?) June 1st Margaret Dick, illegitimate, daughter of James Dick and Helen Courie(?)

Hello Listers I'm trying to trace the family history of a 90 year-old aunt whose father & grandfather were both named Thomas GRAHAM. Generations of her family lived in Carnwath & Kaimend (which had various spellings in the censuses over the decades). Please can anyone tell me more about these places - was Kaimend a hamlet? As I'm in Western Australia I have no concept of the geography of these places. I've trawled the IGI & purchased some death certificates from the GRO, but does anyone have access to PR's, burial records or monumental inscriptions for Carnwath? Related families that lived in that village were GRAHAM, KIDD, BAIRD, SMITH. I'm also interested in THOMSONs from Walston (this aunt has a Sampler worked in 1809 by her great grandmother Elizabeth THOMPSON, daughter of Thomas & Margaret nee DEANS or DEON.) Thankyou in hope Rosemary

My gg grandparents' marriage certificate lists the bride's name as Ann Harvie or Boag. I've found other instances of this in the Scottish Census. What is the significance of the second name? Is it a previous marriage, mother's name? Thanks. Jeanne

Yes, thanks Bob, that's the family I found on the LDS Family Search site. I'm new to UK research and had no idea what BIVRI2 was. I see from a Google search that it's a vital records index. I'm lucky enough to have a Family History Library about 10 minutes away, but it might be something worth investing in to have at home. I don't see Robert listed with the family on any Census record I've been able to find, and Christian seems to be missing from 1841 on too. Of course Robert could have been off on his own by 1841 but the mother must have died. I understand keeping death wasn't mandatory so what's the best way (or the best place) to find those records? Jeanne In a message dated 8/3/2010 10:59:55 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, hiflyte@telus.net writes: Found these records in the BIVRI2 data. Bob

Hi just read your email.   I also have Mcdonald's & Muir's in my family.   can you email me in regards to these family's please. regards. Glenys in Mandurah W.A. ________________________________ From: Heather <heathermullen@bigpond.com> To: lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 3 August, 2010 7:40:07 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] MacDonald's in Old Monkland A number of my Galbraith ancestors have McDonald as their middle name (Archibald MacDonald Galbraith, Donald MacDonald Galbraith). This is from Archibald's mother Catherin MacDonald, who was born in Bowmore. I also hane names such as Cullen and Muir Regards Heather from a very chilly Bellarine Peninsula (Victoria) > > In conclusion; would it be true to say that almost the entire population > of Airdrie and Coatbridge > have Macdonald as a surname?  Any comments from the locally > well-connected? > > Alastair Macdonald > Brisbane, Australia. > >   ------------------------------- LANARK, SCOTLAND MAILING LIST LIST TOPIC:  The discussion and research of genealogy or history information pertaining to Lanark, Scotland at any point in its history. WHEN REPLYING to any list post please remember to snip most of the earlier message before you post any reply LIST INFORMATION PAGE:  Contact the List Admin at lanark-admin@rootsweb.com; or to search the list archives, get information on subscribing or unsubscribing, or to obtain other useful information to help you use the list more effectively, please click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I dont know if there is any connection regards Jean *John Christie * *b. 1820, Huntly, Aberdeen, Scotland* *& **Grace Harvey*** Aberdein C112275* *b. 22 Jun 1839, New Machar,* *Aberdeen, Scotland* *d. 23 Dec 1894, Fintray,* *Aberdeen, Scotland* *m. 9 Dec 1856, New Machar,* *Aberdeen, Scotland M112271* > ------------------------------- > > LANARK, SCOTLAND MAILING LIST > > > LIST TOPIC: The discussion and research of genealogy or history > information pertaining to Lanark, Scotland at any point in its history. > > WHEN REPLYING to any list post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message before you post any reply > > LIST INFORMATION PAGE: Contact the List Admin at > lanark-admin@rootsweb.com; or to search the list archives, get information > on subscribing or unsubscribing, or to obtain other useful information to > help you use the list more effectively, please click on the following link > to the list information page online: > > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > LANARK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > -- Jean NAMES I AM SEARCHING MCSHANE WELSH VANCE LYNCH ONEIL CHRISTIE RAFFERTY,MCCONNELL TACKNEY BROGAN MCHALE THORNTON COYLE MULHEARN MCGURK AND HALF OF SCOTLAND LOL