Have a page of baptisms for 1797 thus: XXXX in Castle Douglas had two unlawful children baptized 4th September 1797. Named William and Jean. On the side bar the surnames of the spouses of the other children baptized are listed once, but the one for the ‘father?’ of the unlawful children is listed twice (once for each child, if the name is for the father, i.e.) I can’t make it out: it’s either palty or patly (and I thought even partly). ..or maybe even patty...whether lower case or capital p is hard to tell. Would this be some sort of form of record-keeping for ‘unlawful’ children, or would it be the father’s surname? Regardless, how cruel in those days to stigmatise those children as unlawful even when being baptized. What a lot ‘religion’ has to answer for that poor wee innocent souls had to carry this label throughout their lives Maisie

From: Maisie Egger Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 10:07 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Fw: The ScotlandsPeople July Newsletter For general news. Maisie From: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 2:54 AM Subject: The ScotlandsPeople July Newsletter If this email does not display correctly, you can view it online. July 2013 Dear ScotlandsPeople Customer, Congratulations to Andy Murray! We thought we'd start off this month's newsletter by offering our congratulations to Andy Murray. His marvellous achievement in winning the men's singles at Wimbledon was truly a joyful and historic moment (even though it was a very nail-biting experience to watch the final, especially that last game - phew!). We noticed that one of Andy's next challenges is a 'Battle of the Sexes' match against 'Minnie the Minx'. Hmm, winning the Wimbledon men's title is one thing; but winning a tennis match against 'Minnie the Minx' is a different kettle of fish entirely. Oh, he's a brave lad, Andy! We wish him every success in his showdown match with 'Minnie'. The Open at Muirfield and Scottish gowfers from the past With the Open teeing off at Muirfield this week, we're hoping that Andy Murray's triumph at Wimbledon can inspire one of the Scottish gowfers in the field to win the famous claret jug. Scotland has produced its fair share of Open champions - especially for the period from 1860 to 1889, when every single winner was a Scot. Admittedly, the tournament at that time was not quite as cosmopolitan as it is today. So we're hoping that one of today's Scots can emulate the amazing feats of *Tom Morris (Senior and Junior), James Braid, Willie Park, Jamie Anderson, Bob Ferguson, et al. So to celebrate the start of the Open and also the Scottish gowfers of yesteryear, here is a Valuation Roll entry for St Andrews from 1915, which includes a certain professional golfer by the name of Lawrie Auchterlonie. *Tom Morris Senior and Junior are family ancestors of Grant, who works in the ScotlandsPeople Team - Grant says that, unfortunately, the ability to play links golf is not passed down through the ancestral genes. The 1895 Valuation Rolls - Abdul Karim at Balmoral Castle and the Cranston Tea Rooms in Glasgow There's an exotic flavour to the first of the 1895 Valuation Roll (VR) entries highlighted in this month's newsletter. For included in this highlighted entry is 'The Munshi Abdul Karim', who gave Queen Victoria lessons in Hindustani, as well as teaching her about Indian religion and culture, when she stayed at Balmoral Castle. In addition to the 'Munshi' (which means teacher), you can see the names and job titles of other people who lived on the Balmoral Estate in 1895. To read more about Abdul Karim's time in Scotland and to view the Valuation Roll page, follow this link. In the second example from the 1895 Valuation Rolls this month, we've highlighted an old Glasgow institution - the Cranston Tea Rooms. These tea rooms (or 'tea shops') were established by Catherine (Kate) Cranston, who defied Victorian convention by stepping out of the domestic sphere and becoming a popular and successful businesswoman. In these Valuation Roll entries, you can see her listed as a 'restaurant keeper' and learn who owned the business premises that she rented - you can also see the annual rateable values of her premises at 114 Argyll Street and 205-211 Ingram Street. It's also fascinating to see the names and job titles of the people who lived nearby to her tea rooms. N.B. when viewing the large images for these VRs on the website, just click on the image to enlarge it even further. The Fife budgie who used tee-names We love the stories about tee-names that you've been sharing with us - thanks for sending them in. Davina Baker contacted us to tell us about her Dad from Wemyss in Fife, who was known as 'Dainty Dave' – he earned this tee-name name because was highly skilled at woodwork and also a wonderful dancer. When he returned home from work each night, the family's budgie would trill, 'Dainty Dave! 'Dainty Dave!' We imagine that there are still plenty more quirky tee-name tales lurking out there… Daylight robbery? Window Tax rolls go online Historical records of the notorious window tax dating back over 250 years go online on 18 July 2013. The tax rolls in the National Records of Scotland that have been added to the ScotlandsPlaces website span fifty years and cover the whole of Scotland, listing taxpayers in the burghs and country parishes. They show how much thousands of Scots paid for each window in their houses - from 14 pence for 7 windows at the lower end of the scale to over 29 pounds for 294 windows at Floors Castle near Kelso. The term "daylight robbery" is linked to the window tax but although the rolls prove that some householders blocked up their windows to avoid the window tax, archivists at the National Records of Scotland suspect that there is more myth than history surrounding this. Many of the apparently blocked windows on Georgian buildings, for example in the New Town, Edinburgh, are in fact blind windows designed to maintain the building's symmetrical façade. As the tax was on the wealthy, the difference of a few shillings per year was not necessarily enough to force people to give up their light and air. The window tax rolls are the latest additions to a treasure trove of historical information held on the ScotlandsPlaces website. Researchers can now get access to hundreds of thousands of names in the rolls covering the decades before 1800, including taxes on male and female servants, carriages, carts, saddle and farm horses, clocks and watches, and shops. The tax rolls are very useful for genealogists seeking to place their Scottish ancestors in a specific time and place. If you are in Edinburgh between 29 July and 23 August why not visit the free exhibition 'Window on the Past' at the National Records of Scotland? Learn about the lifestyles of the great and the good of Enlightenment Scotland and discover how tally sticks were used in the collection of tax revenues. The exhibition is open Monday to Friday, 9:00 - 4:30. ScotlandsPeople at the New Zealand Family History Fair - Manukau, 2 to 4 August 2013 Thanks to the New Zealand Society of Genealogists (NZSoG), ScotlandsPeople will have a stand at the New Zealand Family History Fair in Manukau, from Friday 2 to Sunday 4 August. Volunteers from the NZSoG will be manning (or rather womanning) the ScotlandsPeople stand, which will be located in 'the Celtic Fringe' area (next to the Irish and Welsh stalls) of the conference hall. The number for the ScotlandsPeople stand is 61. Next door to the SP stand will be the NZSG Scottish Interest Group (stand 60), so stands 60 and 61 will be the stands to visit if you're looking to make enquiries about your Scottish roots. The Vodafone Events Centre in Manukau is the venue for the fair and there is free admission. So if you're going to be attending the NZ FH Fair, please drop in on stand 61 and say 'hello' to the ScotlandsPeople volunteers. Family History and Heritage Fair - Peterhead, Saturday 27 July 2013 If you're in the Peterhead area on Saturday 27 July, then you might like to attend the Family History and Heritage Fair that the Buchan Family History Society (BFHS) is holding. The venue is the Apex Church Hall on Queen Street, Peterhead, there is free admission and the event runs from 10am to 4pm. You can find out more about this event on the BFHS website. Local and Family History Fair - Motherwell, Saturday 23 August 2013 As part of the 'David Livingstone 200' celebrations, the Lanarkshire Family History Society (LFHS) is organising a Local and Family History Show. With over 70 exhibitor stalls already booked, the fair will be one of the biggest local and family history events in Scotland in 2013 – you can see the full list of exhibitors and speakers on the LFHS website. There is free admission to the fair. The venue for the show is the Motherwell Concert Hall and Theatre (Windmill Street, ML1 1AB), and it takes place on Saturday 24 August 2013, from 10am to 4.30pm. 'Who Do You Think You Are? - the new UK series starts on Wednesday 24 July The first programme in Series 10 of 'Who Do You Think You Are? will be broadcast at 21:00 on BBC1 on Wednesday 24 July. The first celebrity to explore their family history in the new series is actress, Una Stubbs. Judging by the information provided in the programme's summary on the WDYTYA? website, it looks like Una's story is going to be a very poignant one with plenty of amazing coincidences to be revealed. 'Family Tree' - a BBC2 sit-com about genealogy Until the arrival of the BBC2 programme, 'Family Tree', we'd never heard about a sit-com that explores the subject of family history. But we watched the first episode of 'Family Tree' this week and it made us laugh, so we thought the readers of this newsletter might also be interested in it. In short, the series is about the ancestral odyssey that the unemployed and unattached, Tom Chadwick, embarks upon when a great-aunt leaves him a box full of curios and old photos. So if you're curious to see how the muse of genealogy (a hybrid of Clio and Hyndla, possibly…) can inspire sit-com writers, check out 'Family Tree' on BBC2 on Tuesday nights. News and events a.. A local history conference / series of events to celebrate the 850th anniversary of the building of Paisley Abbey; b.. The re-opening of the Black Watch Museum in Perth; c.. The search for Edinburgh's missing apostrophe - the Apostrophe Society says it's high time the missing apostrophe was returned to Edinburgh's apostropheless Princes Street; d.. The National Library of Scotland announce August and September dates for family history workshops; e.. Archaeologists find evidence of Highland Clearance violence in Sutherland; f.. Forensic experts at the University of Dundee create a 'virtual sculpture' of Mary, Queen of Scots; g.. Kelpies Unbound! Work starts on the two 100-foot sculptures of the Falkirk and Grangemouth Kelpies. All the Best, The ScotlandsPeople Team www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk We are sending this email to you because you are registered with ScotlandsPeople. Click here to change or update your details: you will need to log in and go to "My Details". To make sure you keep receiving emails from us, add [email protected] to your safe list or address book. Please do not reply to this email: send any comments you have to [email protected] If you no longer wish to receive emails from us, click here to opt out: you will need to log in and go to "My Details". Click here to view our Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. This email has been sent by BrightSolid Limited: Registered in Scotland Company Number 161678 powered by phplist v 2.10.12, © tincan ltd

For general news. Maisie From: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 2:54 AM Subject: The ScotlandsPeople July Newsletter If this email does not display correctly, you can view it online. July 2013 Dear ScotlandsPeople Customer, Congratulations to Andy Murray! We thought we'd start off this month's newsletter by offering our congratulations to Andy Murray. His marvellous achievement in winning the men's singles at Wimbledon was truly a joyful and historic moment (even though it was a very nail-biting experience to watch the final, especially that last game - phew!). We noticed that one of Andy's next challenges is a 'Battle of the Sexes' match against 'Minnie the Minx'. Hmm, winning the Wimbledon men's title is one thing; but winning a tennis match against 'Minnie the Minx' is a different kettle of fish entirely. Oh, he's a brave lad, Andy! We wish him every success in his showdown match with 'Minnie'. The Open at Muirfield and Scottish gowfers from the past With the Open teeing off at Muirfield this week, we're hoping that Andy Murray's triumph at Wimbledon can inspire one of the Scottish gowfers in the field to win the famous claret jug. Scotland has produced its fair share of Open champions - especially for the period from 1860 to 1889, when every single winner was a Scot. Admittedly, the tournament at that time was not quite as cosmopolitan as it is today. So we're hoping that one of today's Scots can emulate the amazing feats of *Tom Morris (Senior and Junior), James Braid, Willie Park, Jamie Anderson, Bob Ferguson, et al. So to celebrate the start of the Open and also the Scottish gowfers of yesteryear, here is a Valuation Roll entry for St Andrews from 1915, which includes a certain professional golfer by the name of Lawrie Auchterlonie. *Tom Morris Senior and Junior are family ancestors of Grant, who works in the ScotlandsPeople Team - Grant says that, unfortunately, the ability to play links golf is not passed down through the ancestral genes. The 1895 Valuation Rolls - Abdul Karim at Balmoral Castle and the Cranston Tea Rooms in Glasgow There's an exotic flavour to the first of the 1895 Valuation Roll (VR) entries highlighted in this month's newsletter. For included in this highlighted entry is 'The Munshi Abdul Karim', who gave Queen Victoria lessons in Hindustani, as well as teaching her about Indian religion and culture, when she stayed at Balmoral Castle. In addition to the 'Munshi' (which means teacher), you can see the names and job titles of other people who lived on the Balmoral Estate in 1895. To read more about Abdul Karim's time in Scotland and to view the Valuation Roll page, follow this link. In the second example from the 1895 Valuation Rolls this month, we've highlighted an old Glasgow institution - the Cranston Tea Rooms. These tea rooms (or 'tea shops') were established by Catherine (Kate) Cranston, who defied Victorian convention by stepping out of the domestic sphere and becoming a popular and successful businesswoman. In these Valuation Roll entries, you can see her listed as a 'restaurant keeper' and learn who owned the business premises that she rented - you can also see the annual rateable values of her premises at 114 Argyll Street and 205-211 Ingram Street. It's also fascinating to see the names and job titles of the people who lived nearby to her tea rooms. N.B. when viewing the large images for these VRs on the website, just click on the image to enlarge it even further. The Fife budgie who used tee-names We love the stories about tee-names that you've been sharing with us - thanks for sending them in. Davina Baker contacted us to tell us about her Dad from Wemyss in Fife, who was known as 'Dainty Dave' – he earned this tee-name name because was highly skilled at woodwork and also a wonderful dancer. When he returned home from work each night, the family's budgie would trill, 'Dainty Dave! 'Dainty Dave!' We imagine that there are still plenty more quirky tee-name tales lurking out there… Daylight robbery? Window Tax rolls go online Historical records of the notorious window tax dating back over 250 years go online on 18 July 2013. The tax rolls in the National Records of Scotland that have been added to the ScotlandsPlaces website span fifty years and cover the whole of Scotland, listing taxpayers in the burghs and country parishes. They show how much thousands of Scots paid for each window in their houses - from 14 pence for 7 windows at the lower end of the scale to over 29 pounds for 294 windows at Floors Castle near Kelso. The term "daylight robbery" is linked to the window tax but although the rolls prove that some householders blocked up their windows to avoid the window tax, archivists at the National Records of Scotland suspect that there is more myth than history surrounding this. Many of the apparently blocked windows on Georgian buildings, for example in the New Town, Edinburgh, are in fact blind windows designed to maintain the building's symmetrical façade. As the tax was on the wealthy, the difference of a few shillings per year was not necessarily enough to force people to give up their light and air. The window tax rolls are the latest additions to a treasure trove of historical information held on the ScotlandsPlaces website. Researchers can now get access to hundreds of thousands of names in the rolls covering the decades before 1800, including taxes on male and female servants, carriages, carts, saddle and farm horses, clocks and watches, and shops. The tax rolls are very useful for genealogists seeking to place their Scottish ancestors in a specific time and place. If you are in Edinburgh between 29 July and 23 August why not visit the free exhibition 'Window on the Past' at the National Records of Scotland? Learn about the lifestyles of the great and the good of Enlightenment Scotland and discover how tally sticks were used in the collection of tax revenues. The exhibition is open Monday to Friday, 9:00 - 4:30. ScotlandsPeople at the New Zealand Family History Fair - Manukau, 2 to 4 August 2013 Thanks to the New Zealand Society of Genealogists (NZSoG), ScotlandsPeople will have a stand at the New Zealand Family History Fair in Manukau, from Friday 2 to Sunday 4 August. Volunteers from the NZSoG will be manning (or rather womanning) the ScotlandsPeople stand, which will be located in 'the Celtic Fringe' area (next to the Irish and Welsh stalls) of the conference hall. The number for the ScotlandsPeople stand is 61. Next door to the SP stand will be the NZSG Scottish Interest Group (stand 60), so stands 60 and 61 will be the stands to visit if you're looking to make enquiries about your Scottish roots. The Vodafone Events Centre in Manukau is the venue for the fair and there is free admission. So if you're going to be attending the NZ FH Fair, please drop in on stand 61 and say 'hello' to the ScotlandsPeople volunteers. Family History and Heritage Fair - Peterhead, Saturday 27 July 2013 If you're in the Peterhead area on Saturday 27 July, then you might like to attend the Family History and Heritage Fair that the Buchan Family History Society (BFHS) is holding. The venue is the Apex Church Hall on Queen Street, Peterhead, there is free admission and the event runs from 10am to 4pm. You can find out more about this event on the BFHS website. Local and Family History Fair - Motherwell, Saturday 23 August 2013 As part of the 'David Livingstone 200' celebrations, the Lanarkshire Family History Society (LFHS) is organising a Local and Family History Show. With over 70 exhibitor stalls already booked, the fair will be one of the biggest local and family history events in Scotland in 2013 – you can see the full list of exhibitors and speakers on the LFHS website. There is free admission to the fair. The venue for the show is the Motherwell Concert Hall and Theatre (Windmill Street, ML1 1AB), and it takes place on Saturday 24 August 2013, from 10am to 4.30pm. 'Who Do You Think You Are? - the new UK series starts on Wednesday 24 July The first programme in Series 10 of 'Who Do You Think You Are? will be broadcast at 21:00 on BBC1 on Wednesday 24 July. The first celebrity to explore their family history in the new series is actress, Una Stubbs. Judging by the information provided in the programme's summary on the WDYTYA? website, it looks like Una's story is going to be a very poignant one with plenty of amazing coincidences to be revealed. 'Family Tree' - a BBC2 sit-com about genealogy Until the arrival of the BBC2 programme, 'Family Tree', we'd never heard about a sit-com that explores the subject of family history. But we watched the first episode of 'Family Tree' this week and it made us laugh, so we thought the readers of this newsletter might also be interested in it. In short, the series is about the ancestral odyssey that the unemployed and unattached, Tom Chadwick, embarks upon when a great-aunt leaves him a box full of curios and old photos. So if you're curious to see how the muse of genealogy (a hybrid of Clio and Hyndla, possibly…) can inspire sit-com writers, check out 'Family Tree' on BBC2 on Tuesday nights. News and events a.. A local history conference / series of events to celebrate the 850th anniversary of the building of Paisley Abbey; b.. The re-opening of the Black Watch Museum in Perth; c.. The search for Edinburgh's missing apostrophe - the Apostrophe Society says it's high time the missing apostrophe was returned to Edinburgh's apostropheless Princes Street; d.. The National Library of Scotland announce August and September dates for family history workshops; e.. Archaeologists find evidence of Highland Clearance violence in Sutherland; f.. Forensic experts at the University of Dundee create a 'virtual sculpture' of Mary, Queen of Scots; g.. Kelpies Unbound! Work starts on the two 100-foot sculptures of the Falkirk and Grangemouth Kelpies. All the Best, The ScotlandsPeople Team www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk We are sending this email to you because you are registered with ScotlandsPeople. Click here to change or update your details: you will need to log in and go to "My Details". To make sure you keep receiving emails from us, add [email protected] to your safe list or address book. Please do not reply to this email: send any comments you have to [email protected] If you no longer wish to receive emails from us, click here to opt out: you will need to log in and go to "My Details". Click here to view our Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. This email has been sent by BrightSolid Limited: Registered in Scotland Company Number 161678 powered by phplist v 2.10.12, © tincan ltd

It’s taken a month or two but I have to offer kudos to Lyn, researcher at the Mitchell library, for trying to verify who among my mother’s relatives died in the City Poorhouse, Parliamentary Rd., Glasgow. A few years back, Des Garrety was able to find the applications for admission to the poorhouse for two of three sisters. I had wondered if one of the husbands had also died there, though the list of paupers buried in Common Ground, as it was called, in a new area behind Glasgow Cathedral, indicated that he and his father-in-law, Joseph Pope, must have been living in their own residences at the time of death, one at Saltmarket and the other Princes St. (no longer to be found...so either the name was changed or the street was demolished). Joseph Pope, the patriarch of the sisters, and the husband of one, actually died in Glasgow Infirmary. Lyn, at the Mitchell, was unable to find any applications to the poorhouse by Joseph Pope, his wife Margaret McBride, and son-in-law Francis Ferrie...all by way of Ireland, incidentally. Joseph Pope was likely Scottish as he served with the Fife Fencibles and was in Co. Kilkenny when they disbanded late 1700s after they had sorted out yet another skirmish with the Irish. It would appear that he and his family stayed in Co. Kilkenny after the regiment was disbanded, and then at some point the family ended up in Glasgow. The Fife Fencibles could have recruited from anywhere in Scotland as Joseph Pope, shoemaker, is in Glasgow at the time of his death. Two of the children of Francis Pope and Margaret McBride were christened in St. Mary’s Church of Ireland, Co. Kilkenny, 1800 and 1808, respectively, and so I am assuming that Joseph and Margaret could have been born around the 1770s. I am discouraged about the 1770 date for Margaret McBride as my forays into Irish records have been dismal, to say the least. I am conjecturing that she and Joseph might have met in Co. Kilkenny and married there, so the next shot in the dark might be to contact this Church of Ireland’s St. Mary’s, Co. Kilkenny to find out if/where any such records might be kept. I do not know if the Anglican community keeps its own records or if there is a central repository, such as New Register House, Edinburgh. Perhaps someone on the list will know. I have no complaints at all about the service provided by the researchers at the Mitchell Library, and all free, thanks to the Glasgow taxpayer! Maisie

Evening all, As Maisie said, we commemorate the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn next June. Three years ago I set myself the task of identifying those ancestors who fought at Bannockburn or who were around at the time. Thanks to the wonders of DNA that question has been answered. I would take issue with one comment by Maisie. Sir John Menteith did not betray William Wallace. He was the Governor of Dumbarton Castle appointed to that office by Edward I of England and it was in that capacity he arrested Wallace, an action which received the support of virtually the entire Scottish aristocracy which by then was fed up with Wallace's refusal to engage in peace negotiations with Edward. Sir John Menteith was my 22nd x great grandfather. His mother was Mary Countess of Menteith in her own right and her husband Walter Stewart whose family acquired the throne through the marriage of another Walter his great-nephew to Princess Marjorie Bruce. Sir John's wife Helena was daughter of Garnait, 8th Earl of Mar. Garnait's sisters Isabella and Mary were married to Robert the Bruce and Kenneth 4th Earl of Sutherland respectively. Both were also 22nd x great grandfathers. Sir John's daughter Joanna was the 2nd wife of Kenneth's son William, making them my 21st x great grandparents. William's 1st wife was Princess Margaret, daughter of Robert the Bruce and his 2nd wife Elizabeth de Burgh and therefore sister of David II. Sir John Menteith was as you can see extremely closely related by both birth and marriage to the Bruce family. There can be little doubt that his action in arresting Wallace was at least known by, if not supported by Robert the Bruce and his 2 brothers-in-law. It is fascinating knowing that 4 ancestors Sir John Menteith, Kenneth 4th Earl of Sutherland, Donald 7th Earl of Mar and King Robert the Bruce played such a key role in the events leading up to Bannockburn and the Declaration of Arbroath, though frankly I think the real power brokers were their wives/daughters, especially the Mar sisters who must have inherited some of the wit of their own mother, Helen of Wales, daughter of Llewellyn the Great, Prince of Wales. Mark -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maisie Egger Sent: 14 July 2013 19:18 To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Fw: Homecoming Carole, If you go to Google there are many choices to pick from for the Year of Homecoming 2014, including one for the Ryder Cup if you're interested in golf. One of the highlights, if you are "into" the history of Scotland, will be the 700th commemoration of the Battle of Bannockburn. 'The Battle of Bannockburn (Blàr Allt a' Bhonnaich in Scottish Gaelic) (24 June 1314) was a significant Scottish victory in the Wars of Scottish Independence. It was one of the decisive battles of the First War of Scottish Independence. The Scottish victory was complete and, although full English recognition of Scottish independence was not achieved until more than ten years later, Robert Bruce's position as king was greatly strengthened by the outcome....' The list of casualties at the Battle of Bannockburn includes many with French-Norman-styled names. I don't know at which point in history in the British Isles the French "de" was dropped. Robert de Brus (who was of French-Norman-Scottish heritage), hero of the Battle of Bannockburn, became Robert the Bruce, whilst nowadays he's referred to as Robert Bruce by some historians. Deaths Gilbert de Clare, 8th Earl of Gloucester Sir Giles d'Argentan John Lovel, 2nd Baron Lovel John Comyn, Lord of Badenoch (Scottish -- notice no 'de') Robert de Clifford, 1st Baron de Clifford Sir Henry de Bohun William le Marshal, Marshal of Ireland ('le' - Anglo-French -- a high official in the household of a medieval king, prince, or noble .....) Edmund de Mauley, King's Steward Sir Robert de Felton of Litcham, 1st Lord Captives Humphrey de Bohun, 4th Earl of Hereford John de Segrave, 2nd Baron Segrave Maurice de Berkeley, 2nd Baron Berkeley Sir Marmaduke Tweng Ralph de Monthermer, 1st Baron Monthermer Robert de Umfraville, Earl of Angus (Scottish) Sir Anthony de Luci Sir Ingram de Umfraville (Scottish) I don't have a Bruce on my tree but I do have a Wallace. I make no claims to be related to Scotland's true hero (according to some) William Wallace. The name Wallace could also be French Norman, William de Waleys, though some opine it comes from North Britain (Wales) as Wallis. Historians are uncertain whether Wallace's family came from Elderslie, Renfrewshire ('next door' to Lanarkshire), or Ellerslie, Ayrshire, two doors down from Lanarkshire! The absolute connection Wallace has with Lanarkshire is that he was betrayed in Robroyston, north of Glasgow, a short walk away from where I grew up. by his own servant Jack Short and a Scottish Baron, Sir John Menteith. Most bodies of waters in Scotland are referred to as lochs. Up until the 19th century Lake Mentieth was referred to as Loch Menteith. Lake Menteith has nothing to do with being named after Sir John Menteith but apparently came about due to a corruption by 16th-century Dutch cartographers of the Lowland Scots Laich o Menteith, where "laich" simply means "low place". My own maiden surname Clint is Danish 'klint' for a hard, rocky surface. It is a locative name in South-west Scotland, so no family lore to fall back on down through the centuries presumably. However, as the name is as scarce as hen's teeth in Scotland, I have resorted to claiming my roots in York (northern England), settled by the Danes, where lots by the name of Clint have been found over the centuries. In summation, then, do you really know who you are? ... and all this because you, Carole (Kenney), were interested in a short summary of events during the Year of Homecoming 2014! Maisie From: Carole Kenney Subject: [Lanark] Homecoming ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Carole, If you go to Google there are many choices to pick from for the Year of Homecoming 2014, including one for the Ryder Cup if you're interested in golf. One of the highlights, if you are "into" the history of Scotland, will be the 700th commemoration of the Battle of Bannockburn. 'The Battle of Bannockburn (Blàr Allt a' Bhonnaich in Scottish Gaelic) (24 June 1314) was a significant Scottish victory in the Wars of Scottish Independence. It was one of the decisive battles of the First War of Scottish Independence. The Scottish victory was complete and, although full English recognition of Scottish independence was not achieved until more than ten years later, Robert Bruce's position as king was greatly strengthened by the outcome....' The list of casualties at the Battle of Bannockburn includes many with French-Norman-styled names. I don't know at which point in history in the British Isles the French "de" was dropped. Robert de Brus (who was of French-Norman-Scottish heritage), hero of the Battle of Bannockburn, became Robert the Bruce, whilst nowadays he's referred to as Robert Bruce by some historians. Deaths Gilbert de Clare, 8th Earl of Gloucester Sir Giles d'Argentan John Lovel, 2nd Baron Lovel John Comyn, Lord of Badenoch (Scottish -- notice no 'de') Robert de Clifford, 1st Baron de Clifford Sir Henry de Bohun William le Marshal, Marshal of Ireland ('le' - Anglo-French -- a high official in the household of a medieval king, prince, or noble .....) Edmund de Mauley, King's Steward Sir Robert de Felton of Litcham, 1st Lord Captives Humphrey de Bohun, 4th Earl of Hereford John de Segrave, 2nd Baron Segrave Maurice de Berkeley, 2nd Baron Berkeley Sir Marmaduke Tweng Ralph de Monthermer, 1st Baron Monthermer Robert de Umfraville, Earl of Angus (Scottish) Sir Anthony de Luci Sir Ingram de Umfraville (Scottish) I don't have a Bruce on my tree but I do have a Wallace. I make no claims to be related to Scotland's true hero (according to some) William Wallace. The name Wallace could also be French Norman, William de Waleys, though some opine it comes from North Britain (Wales) as Wallis. Historians are uncertain whether Wallace's family came from Elderslie, Renfrewshire ('next door' to Lanarkshire), or Ellerslie, Ayrshire, two doors down from Lanarkshire! The absolute connection Wallace has with Lanarkshire is that he was betrayed in Robroyston, north of Glasgow, a short walk away from where I grew up. by his own servant Jack Short and a Scottish Baron, Sir John Menteith. Most bodies of waters in Scotland are referred to as lochs. Up until the 19th century Lake Mentieth was referred to as Loch Menteith. Lake Menteith has nothing to do with being named after Sir John Menteith but apparently came about due to a corruption by 16th-century Dutch cartographers of the Lowland Scots Laich o Menteith, where "laich" simply means "low place". My own maiden surname Clint is Danish 'klint' for a hard, rocky surface. It is a locative name in South-west Scotland, so no family lore to fall back on down through the centuries presumably. However, as the name is as scarce as hen's teeth in Scotland, I have resorted to claiming my roots in York (northern England), settled by the Danes, where lots by the name of Clint have been found over the centuries. In summation, then, do you really know who you are? ... and all this because you, Carole (Kenney), were interested in a short summary of events during the Year of Homecoming 2014! Maisie From: Carole Kenney Subject: [Lanark] Homecoming

I agree with Anne's comment that this isn't the forum for political debate, but there are some fundamental democratic principles involved in the decision to restrict eligibility to vote to only those who legitimately appear on the Scottish Electoral Register and I think it is worth clarifying these before this topic is banned on this list: If the vote were to be extended to individuals not on the Scottish Electoral Register, how would these people be defined and, just as importantly, how could their legitimacy be established? Native-born Scots living elsewhere, or anyone who claimed Scottish ancestry? Neither would be administratively feasible. Even if it were feasible to extend the vote to non-resident Scots, it would completely undermine basic democratic principles for the ballot to be affected by the votes of people who do not have to live with the consequences of the result. What if the resident Scots voters opted overwhelmingly to remain in the UK, but the total ballot outcome was for independence as a result of non-resident voters? It would be equally unacceptable for the voters of Scotland, if they voted for independence, to have that denied them by the votes of non-residents who have little first-hand knowledge of life and politics in 21st century Scotland. I don't see the Canadian Government offering the vote in their elections to my wife on the basis that her mother was Canadian, so why should anyone expect it to apply in Scotland? We, who actually live in Scotland, are finding precious little realism in the utterings of politicians on both sides of the debate, but at least there is realism, on the grounds of practicality, common sense and democratic principles, in the decision to restrict the referendum vote to the Scottish Electoral Register. Over and out, Ken Mathieson ----- Original Message ----- From: "nautakat" <[email protected]> To: "'Maisie Egger'" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 1:45 AM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 > Go, Maisie!!!!! > > I understand that only residents in Scotland will be voting in the > referendum regardless of their national background. Scots outside the > country will not be allowed to vote. > Even my English relatives living in Scotland think this is idiotic and > idiotic. > > It's frustrating and depressing to know that there are people who think > national politics is somehow separate from national identity and heritage. > Kathryn > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of MARC ARCHER > Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013 2:44 AM > To: Maisie Egger; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 > > You tell them, Maisie. Get their heads out of the sand. > > > > ________________________________ > From: Maisie Egger <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 > > > They say that you never know you're happy until the minute after; well, > this > does not apply to my reference to the referendum in 2014 for Scots in > Scotland to determine whether they'll stay with the union or not. I > sensed > that this mere reference would not be acceptable to some, but hoped that > if > one read between the lines one would accept it for what it was: that > there > was another historical sea change afoot for Scotland next year at the same > time as the Year of Homecoming. > > Re my remark: > > 'Next year will offer yet another Year of the Homecoming, whilst there > will > be a more important event for Scots in Scotland who will be presented with > a > referendum to be ‘independent’ from the rest of the U.K., or stay with the > union as it is. ‘We’ born and bred Scots in U.S.A, Australia, New > Zealand, > Canada, etc., who are part of the ‘Scottish Diaspora,’ are not allowed a > vote in this referendum.' > > Lister's response: > > 'This forthcoming referendum is a purely political matter. It has > absolutely nothing to do with heritage, or culture, or national > identity. > > And therefore, of course, it is an entirely inappropriate topic > for discussion in this forum.' > > > As our English cousin would say south of the border: Wot! > > I avoided going into details about why or why not a vote to continue 'as > is' as part of the union was political. One might want to refer to the > article in the Irish Times should Scotland, for example, become an > independent nation under the umbrella of the EU: > > http://www.irishtimes.com/news/eu-regulation-could-restrict-genealogical-research-1.1440075 > > It has caused a bit of a backlash with petitions on different lists being > called for to curtail this move by the EU. Germane to those of us who > depend on "government" sources, such as scotlandspeople? Of course. > Political? Of course. Scotland's inclusion in the EU would be impacted, > judging from the Irish Times article. The paper did all of us a favour in > printing what's afoot for genealogists who want to access government > records > under EU guidelines about invasion of privacy, etc. > > My apologies to those on the list if reference to the Scottish referendum > in > 2014 was a "political" statement, therefore unacceptable on this list. > Those attending the Year of the Homecoming from all over the world next > year > will surely be made aware of possible sea changes afoot for the future > history of Scotland. Is more elaboration needed? I hope not. > > I have no interest in continuing with this topic. Obtuse as I am, not > even > reading between the lines, I thought the inclusion of this historical > event > (2014 referendum) would have brought attention to those attending the Year > of Homecoming that Scotland is very much a part of the 21st century even > as > we continue to pursue researching the past. > > Maisie > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier > message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on > the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3204/5988 - Release Date: 07/13/13 >

Also looking forward to meeting again Nuala Farrell-Griffin at the http://www.oneworldonefamily-theevent.com ..wonderful personality and excellent presenter. http://www.oneworldonefamily-theevent.com/Presenter/Details/10 Frank McGonigal Ont.Canada ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ---Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 5:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Genealogy research directions I’m not in the business of promoting anything on this Lanark list, except to encourage those in their family research. This link per Christine Woodcock, former active Lanark lister. She offers some good tips and commonsensical advice. http://genealogytoursofscotland.blogspot.ca/ http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=3ecfe2086e908628176eb613b&id=d9c81562d8&e=9c7080b35d Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Christine will running workshops at the LDS 'One World-One Family Conference' in Brampton Ont. August 24th where I volunteer once a week at the FHC...I was asked if I would recommend her to have a workshop there ..which I did. SEE... www.oneworldonefamily-theevent.com I have never met her before but have exchanged EMails with her in the past...I'm looking forward to meeting her and attending her workshops. Cheers Frank McGonigal Ont.Canada ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 5:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Genealogy research directions I’m not in the business of promoting anything on this Lanark list, except to encourage those in their family research. This link per Christine Woodcock, former active Lanark lister. She offers some good tips and commonsensical advice. http://genealogytoursofscotland.blogspot.ca/ http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=3ecfe2086e908628176eb613b&id=d9c81562d8&e=9c7080b35d Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

What an interesting itinerary for the OneWorld-One Family Conference in Brampton, and how convenient for you, Frank. I see one of the FHC volunteers with you, Dorothy Kew, will be offering insights on genealogy research to do with Jamaica. Too bad former Jamaican resident Jinx McDonald lives in Florida as she would have been most interested in Dorothy's presentation. Let's hope that Jinx's tootling around South-West Scotland at the moment will reap many genealogy rewards where we might even find out that we are related. Maisie -----Original Message----- From: Frank McGonigal Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 3:04 PM To: Maisie Egger ; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Genealogy research directions Christine will running workshops at the LDS 'One World-One Family Conference' in Brampton Ont. August 24th where I volunteer once a week at the FHC...I was asked if I would recommend her to have a workshop there ..which I did. SEE... www.oneworldonefamily-theevent.com I have never met her before but have exchanged EMails with her in the past...I'm looking forward to meeting her and attending her workshops. Cheers Frank McGonigal Ont.Canada ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ----Original Message----- From: Maisie Egger Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 5:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Genealogy research directions I’m not in the business of promoting anything on this Lanark list, except to encourage those in their family research. This link per Christine Woodcock, former active Lanark lister. She offers some good tips and commonsensical advice. http://genealogytoursofscotland.blogspot.ca/ http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=3ecfe2086e908628176eb613b&id=d9c81562d8&e=9c7080b35d Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I’m not in the business of promoting anything on this Lanark list, except to encourage those in their family research. This link per Christine Woodcock, former active Lanark lister. She offers some good tips and commonsensical advice. http://genealogytoursofscotland.blogspot.ca/ http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=3ecfe2086e908628176eb613b&id=d9c81562d8&e=9c7080b35d Maisie

Go, Maisie!!!!! I understand that only residents in Scotland will be voting in the referendum regardless of their national background. Scots outside the country will not be allowed to vote. Even my English relatives living in Scotland think this is idiotic and idiotic. It's frustrating and depressing to know that there are people who think national politics is somehow separate from national identity and heritage. Kathryn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MARC ARCHER Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013 2:44 AM To: Maisie Egger; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 You tell them, Maisie. Get their heads out of the sand. ________________________________ From: Maisie Egger <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 They say that you never know you're happy until the minute after; well, this does not apply to my reference to the referendum in 2014 for Scots in Scotland to determine whether they'll stay with the union or not. I sensed that this mere reference would not be acceptable to some, but hoped that if one read between the lines one would accept it for what it was: that there was another historical sea change afoot for Scotland next year at the same time as the Year of Homecoming. Re my remark: 'Next year will offer yet another Year of the Homecoming, whilst there will be a more important event for Scots in Scotland who will be presented with a referendum to be ‘independent’ from the rest of the U.K., or stay with the union as it is. ‘We’ born and bred Scots in U.S.A, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc., who are part of the ‘Scottish Diaspora,’ are not allowed a vote in this referendum.' Lister's response: 'This forthcoming referendum is a purely political matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with heritage, or culture, or national identity. And therefore, of course, it is an entirely inappropriate topic for discussion in this forum.' As our English cousin would say south of the border: Wot! I avoided going into details about why or why not a vote to continue 'as is' as part of the union was political. One might want to refer to the article in the Irish Times should Scotland, for example, become an independent nation under the umbrella of the EU: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/eu-regulation-could-restrict-genealogical-research-1.1440075 It has caused a bit of a backlash with petitions on different lists being called for to curtail this move by the EU. Germane to those of us who depend on "government" sources, such as scotlandspeople? Of course. Political? Of course. Scotland's inclusion in the EU would be impacted, judging from the Irish Times article. The paper did all of us a favour in printing what's afoot for genealogists who want to access government records under EU guidelines about invasion of privacy, etc. My apologies to those on the list if reference to the Scottish referendum in 2014 was a "political" statement, therefore unacceptable on this list. Those attending the Year of the Homecoming from all over the world next year will surely be made aware of possible sea changes afoot for the future history of Scotland. Is more elaboration needed? I hope not. I have no interest in continuing with this topic. Obtuse as I am, not even reading between the lines, I thought the inclusion of this historical event (2014 referendum) would have brought attention to those attending the Year of Homecoming that Scotland is very much a part of the 21st century even as we continue to pursue researching the past. Maisie ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Go Maisie, indeed! I think it's interesting to hear what is going on in the country whose heritage we all share. We needn't take sides or discuss our feelings about the vote. Thank you to all who brought the subject up in terms of how it might affect our research. I would, however, also be interested in a short summary of what the Year of Homecoming consists of. Thanks to all for your various contributions to this site! Carole Kenney Upper Merion Supervisor Upper Merion Tricentennial Year 2013 "Preserving the Past, Shaping the Future" On Jul 13, 2013, at 3:01 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > They say that you never know you're happy until the minute after; well, this > does not apply to my reference to the referendum in 2014 for Scots in > Scotland to determine whether they'll stay with the union or not.? I sensed > that this? mere reference would not be acceptable to some, but hoped that if > one read between the lines one would accept it for what it was:? that there > was another historical sea change afoot for Scotland next year at the same > time as the Year of Homecoming.

> It's frustrating and depressing to know that there are people > who think national > politics is somehow separate from national identity and > heritage. Of course it is separate. We Scots have very successfuly retained our identity, culture and heritage, as well as our own separate church, education and legal systems as part of the United Kingdom for the last 300 years. There are plenty of examples all over the world of nations retaining their heritage etc as part of a larger political entity. And of course it is right that the forthcoming referendum should be discussed *in the proper places*. However this forum is **not** a proper place for such discussions. Anne

I dare say that most descendants of Scottish blood living outside the Isles would vote for independence ;-)   Cliff. ________________________________ From: nautakat <[email protected]> To: 'Maisie Egger' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 Go, Maisie!!!!! I understand that only residents in Scotland will be voting in the referendum regardless of their national background.  Scots outside the country will not be allowed to vote. Even my English relatives living in Scotland think this is idiotic and idiotic. It's frustrating and depressing to know that there are people who think national politics is somehow separate from national identity and heritage.  Kathryn -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of MARC ARCHER Sent: Saturday, 13 July 2013 2:44 AM To: Maisie Egger; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 You tell them, Maisie.  Get their heads out of the sand. ________________________________ From: Maisie Egger <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 They say that you never know you're happy until the minute after; well, this does not apply to my reference to the referendum in 2014 for Scots in Scotland to determine whether they'll stay with the union or not.  I sensed that this  mere reference would not be acceptable to some, but hoped that if one read between the lines one would accept it for what it was:  that there was another historical sea change afoot for Scotland next year at the same time as the Year of Homecoming. Re my remark: 'Next year will offer yet another Year of the Homecoming, whilst there will be a more important event for Scots in Scotland who will be presented with a referendum to be ‘independent’ from the rest of the U.K., or stay with the union as it is.  ‘We’ born and bred Scots  in U.S.A, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc., who are part of the ‘Scottish Diaspora,’ are not allowed a vote in this referendum.' Lister's response: 'This forthcoming referendum is a purely political matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with heritage, or culture, or national identity. And therefore, of course, it is an entirely inappropriate topic for discussion in this forum.' As our English cousin would say south of the border:  Wot! I avoided going into details about why or why not a vote to continue  'as is' as part of the union was political.  One might want to refer to the article in the Irish Times should Scotland, for example, become an independent nation under the umbrella of the EU: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/eu-regulation-could-restrict-genealogical-research-1.1440075 It has caused a bit of a backlash with petitions on different lists being called for to curtail this move by the EU.  Germane to those of us who depend on "government" sources, such as scotlandspeople?  Of course. Political?  Of course.  Scotland's inclusion in the EU would be impacted, judging from the Irish Times article.  The paper did all of us a favour in printing what's afoot for genealogists who want to access government records under EU guidelines about invasion of privacy, etc. My apologies to those on the list if reference to the Scottish referendum in 2014 was a "political" statement, therefore unacceptable on this list. Those attending the Year of the Homecoming from all over the world next year will surely be made aware of possible sea changes afoot for the future history of Scotland.  Is more elaboration  needed?  I hope not. I have no interest in continuing with this topic.  Obtuse as I am, not even reading between the lines, I thought the inclusion of this historical event (2014 referendum) would have brought attention to those attending the Year of Homecoming that Scotland is very much a part of the 21st century even as we continue to pursue researching the past. Maisie   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have an entry from the OPR  Scotlandspeople. There is about 40 names listed. My gggranfather is on the  list. He died on 9th September 1854 of Cholera in Govan The page is divided into columns.  with the following headings  DATE  SEX  AGE  LAIR   (GOVAN in this case) DISEASE      NAME      NUMBER (The numbers are in numerical order )and two more columns for money ( I can't read the headings) Does anyone know if the Govan would mean the cemetery and  the number 724 would be the lair. All help is appreciated!! Thank You   Margaret

You tell them, Maisie.  Get their heads out of the sand. ________________________________ From: Maisie Egger <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 They say that you never know you're happy until the minute after; well, this does not apply to my reference to the referendum in 2014 for Scots in Scotland to determine whether they'll stay with the union or not.  I sensed that this  mere reference would not be acceptable to some, but hoped that if one read between the lines one would accept it for what it was:  that there was another historical sea change afoot for Scotland next year at the same time as the Year of Homecoming. Re my remark: 'Next year will offer yet another Year of the Homecoming, whilst there will be a more important event for Scots in Scotland who will be presented with a referendum to be ‘independent’ from the rest of the U.K., or stay with the union as it is.  ‘We’ born and bred Scots  in U.S.A, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc., who are part of the ‘Scottish Diaspora,’ are not allowed a vote in this referendum.' Lister's response: 'This forthcoming referendum is a purely political matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with heritage, or culture, or national identity. And therefore, of course, it is an entirely inappropriate topic for discussion in this forum.' As our English cousin would say south of the border:  Wot! I avoided going into details about why or why not a vote to continue  'as is' as part of the union was political.  One might want to refer to the article in the Irish Times should Scotland, for example, become an independent nation under the umbrella of the EU: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/eu-regulation-could-restrict-genealogical-research-1.1440075 It has caused a bit of a backlash with petitions on different lists being called for to curtail this move by the EU.  Germane to those of us who depend on "government" sources, such as scotlandspeople?  Of course. Political?  Of course.  Scotland's inclusion in the EU would be impacted, judging from the Irish Times article.  The paper did all of us a favour in printing what's afoot for genealogists who want to access government records under EU guidelines about invasion of privacy, etc. My apologies to those on the list if reference to the Scottish referendum in 2014 was a "political" statement, therefore unacceptable on this list. Those attending the Year of the Homecoming from all over the world next year will surely be made aware of possible sea changes afoot for the future history of Scotland.  Is more elaboration  needed?  I hope not. I have no interest in continuing with this topic.  Obtuse as I am, not even reading between the lines, I thought the inclusion of this historical event (2014 referendum) would have brought attention to those attending the Year of Homecoming that Scotland is very much a part of the 21st century even as we continue to pursue researching the past. Maisie   ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online:  http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> Next year will offer yet another Year of the Homecoming, > whilst there will be a more > important event for Scots in > Scotland who will be presented with a referendum to be > > ‘independent’ from the rest of the U.K., or stay with the > union as it is. > ‘We’ born and bred Scots in U.S.A, Australia, New > Zealand, Canada, etc., > who are part of the ‘Scottish Diaspora,’ are not allowed a > vote in this > referendum. This forthcoming referendum is a purely political matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with heritage, or culture, or national identity. And therefore, of course, it is an entirely inappropriate topic for discussion in this forum. Anne

They say that you never know you're happy until the minute after; well, this does not apply to my reference to the referendum in 2014 for Scots in Scotland to determine whether they'll stay with the union or not. I sensed that this mere reference would not be acceptable to some, but hoped that if one read between the lines one would accept it for what it was: that there was another historical sea change afoot for Scotland next year at the same time as the Year of Homecoming. Re my remark: 'Next year will offer yet another Year of the Homecoming, whilst there will be a more important event for Scots in Scotland who will be presented with a referendum to be ‘independent’ from the rest of the U.K., or stay with the union as it is. ‘We’ born and bred Scots in U.S.A, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc., who are part of the ‘Scottish Diaspora,’ are not allowed a vote in this referendum.' Lister's response: 'This forthcoming referendum is a purely political matter. It has absolutely nothing to do with heritage, or culture, or national identity. And therefore, of course, it is an entirely inappropriate topic for discussion in this forum.' As our English cousin would say south of the border: Wot! I avoided going into details about why or why not a vote to continue 'as is' as part of the union was political. One might want to refer to the article in the Irish Times should Scotland, for example, become an independent nation under the umbrella of the EU: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/eu-regulation-could-restrict-genealogical-research-1.1440075 It has caused a bit of a backlash with petitions on different lists being called for to curtail this move by the EU. Germane to those of us who depend on "government" sources, such as scotlandspeople? Of course. Political? Of course. Scotland's inclusion in the EU would be impacted, judging from the Irish Times article. The paper did all of us a favour in printing what's afoot for genealogists who want to access government records under EU guidelines about invasion of privacy, etc. My apologies to those on the list if reference to the Scottish referendum in 2014 was a "political" statement, therefore unacceptable on this list. Those attending the Year of the Homecoming from all over the world next year will surely be made aware of possible sea changes afoot for the future history of Scotland. Is more elaboration needed? I hope not. I have no interest in continuing with this topic. Obtuse as I am, not even reading between the lines, I thought the inclusion of this historical event (2014 referendum) would have brought attention to those attending the Year of Homecoming that Scotland is very much a part of the 21st century even as we continue to pursue researching the past. Maisie

Good morning all, I can confirm that the government agencies involved have downgraded the role of clans to being no more than a small bit of the reason to celebrate Scotland much to the considerable annoyance of most of us within the Clan structure if the dozens of emails I have seen and groups I am a member of are in any way representative of the wider view. Many of us are becoming more and more worried about the way the Bannockburn anniversary is being hijacked by some politicians to promote their views in advance of the referendum debate. The sad side effect is that many of us who had ancestors on the battlefield that day will not now be attending. I am not sure whether I will be attending and so far I know of 4 ancestors on the battlefield including Robert the Bruce himself. Although this is the Lanark List, I should point out that at Bannockburn 2014 in June, there will be little more than a token presence from a number of clans. The Highland Council has decided to host an Inverness Highland Meeting 12-14th September in Inverness and member clans of the Association of Highland Clans are turning it into a mini International Clan Gathering because a number of us are using it as the centre of our Gatherings next year. In our case, Clan Sutherland, we are holding an international gathering from 12-15th September. For those of you with connections to other Highland clans, I suggest you check their various websites to see what they are doing. Regards, Mark John M Sutherland-Fisher Past President, Webmaster and Genealogist: Clan Sutherland North Cadboll House, North Cadboll, Fearn by Tain, Ross-shire. IV20 1TN Tel and Fax: 01862 871877 Mobile: 07765-272815 Skype: john.sutherland.fisher Web-site: www.clansutherland.org.uk Email: [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maisie Egger Sent: 12 July 2013 05:34 To: [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Year of the Homecoming 2014 Christine Woodcock used to be a very active member of the Lanark list, and then she diverted her energies into promoting Scottish genealogy, She is very involved in one of the Ontario genealogy groups as well. Also, as a young widow she is supporting her teenagers after her husband died recently. Next year will offer yet another Year of the Homecoming, whilst there will be a more important event for Scots in Scotland who will be presented with a referendum to be ‘independent’ from the rest of the U.K., or stay with the union as it is. ‘We’ born and bred Scots in U.S.A, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc., who are part of the ‘Scottish Diaspora,’ are not allowed a vote in this referendum. With it all, then, 2014 is going to be a singular year to visit Scotland and to do some digging into your family research. Chrstine Woodcock’s ‘promotion’ for the following 2014 Year of the Homecoming and help with doing genealogy research might be of interest to some listers. (I have no connection with Christine at all, except I know she has been leading successful genealogy research tours to Edinburgh annually.) Maisie ----------------------------------------------------- 2014 has been designated as the Year of the Homecoming by the Scottish Government. The last homecoming, in 2009, was a rousing success for the Diaspora and clans from all over the world, but caused a major deficit financially for the host city. As a result, there has been reluctance by City councils to take on hosting the event. However, June 2014 is also the 700th anniversary of the Battle of Bannockburn. Clans from all over the world, but primarily Canada, the US and Australia have determined that they will have gatherings of their own during the year of the Homecoming. These events will not be a mass gathering as has taken place in the past, but rather clans will gather on their own at various venues throughout the country and throughout the year. This means that tourism will be busy all year. Many clans have had their facilities and events booked since 2012. That said, hotel availability will be at a premium. As well, there is a large push by the Scottish Government to promote Ancestral Tourism during these events since the Diaspora will be returning to their ancestral homeland. This means that the archives will also be busier than usual. Genealogy Tours of Scotland is already booked for the 2014 Genealogy Research Trip, including hotel space. It will be difficult to secure further rooms at a later date, so all spaces in the 2014 tour will be on a first come, first serve basis and will only be considered confirmed once full fees have been received. Spots can be reserved on a temporary basis (pending full payment) by paying your deposit today at: http://www.genealogytoursofscotland.ca/Tour_dates_and_Pricing.html ------------------------------- WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message