Hi Ailsa There is a lot to be read about canals in Scotland on the Internet. I suspect that your relative was a boatman on the Monkland Canal because it was very close to Baillieston. The Monkland Canal was just over 12 miles long and constructed to take coal from the mines around Old Monkland to Glasgow. It was eventually linked to the Forth and Clyde Canal which took vessels from the river Clyde on Scotland's west to the river Forth on the other side of the country. Much of the Monkland Canal is now under the M8 motorway near enough to Baillieston. I used to live nearby to Cuilhill Gullet where the barges took the coal to Glasgow. I was in ignorance that one of my gg grandfathers had drowned in the canal there. He was a widower of 40 who, blind drunk on a Sunday afternoon stroll with some inebriated companions, boasted that he could dive into the canal and swim to the other side. He quickly got into difficulties and his body was retrieved by the boatman. The Dykehead I know is in the Shotts area of Lanarkshire. My grandmother was born there. Regards Ella Ross, Sydney > On 16 Nov 2013, at 12:13, "Ailsa Corlett" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi > > > > I have two birth certificates dated 1857 & 1859, showing the father as being > Boatman on Canal. The births took place at Dykehead and the Registration > district is in the Western District of Old Monkland, Lanark. There is also > another father listed also as a Boatman on Canal on the same page as the > 1859 birth, but his child's birth took place at Baillieston. > > Would these Canals be running off the River Clyde or where these Canals the > actual River Clyde.? > > Would a boatman still be dealing with the coal mines, eg. loading coal onto > the boats perhaps ? > > Would this Dykehead be the one near Shotts or the one North of Glasgow near > Lake Menteith ? or is there or was there another place called Dykehead near > Baillieston and Old Monkland that I cannot locate on a > > Any help with the place of Dykehead and especially about the occupation of > Boatman around that time frame would be appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > Ailsa > > > > > > Ailsa Corlett > > [email protected] > > www.st.net.au/~ailsa > > alternative email if having trouble sending to my normal email is: > > [email protected] > > > > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi I have two birth certificates dated 1857 & 1859, showing the father as being Boatman on Canal. The births took place at Dykehead and the Registration district is in the Western District of Old Monkland, Lanark. There is also another father listed also as a Boatman on Canal on the same page as the 1859 birth, but his child's birth took place at Baillieston. My questions are: Would these Canals be running off the River Clyde or where these Canals the actual River Clyde.? What would the boatman actually be doing ? Would a boatman still be dealing with the coal mines, eg. loading coal onto the boats perhaps ? Would this Dykehead be the one near Shotts or the one North of Glasgow near Lake Menteith ? or is there or was there another place called Dykehead near Baillieston and Old Monkland that I cannot locate on a map ? Around where Crosshill is.? The 1861 Census lists lots of families including mine, all at Dykehead, Quoad Sacra Parish of Crosshill and Parish of Old Monkland. I have the family via the Census etc, living in places like Govan, Barony, Old Monkland, Blantyre and finally in Bothwell as the districts. Alexander, the father's occupation varies over the time, from Carter, Pit Bottomer, Boatman on Canal, Watchman, and when he died he was listed as Colliery - Pitheadman. Any help with the place of Dykehead and especially about the occupation of Boatman around that time frame would be appreciated. Thanks Ailsa Ailsa Corlett [email protected] www.st.net.au/~ailsa alternative email if having trouble sending to my normal email is: [email protected]

Ailsa, I don't think you ever stated the family name you are interested in. I had family in the early 1800s around Dykehead in Old Monkland. I don't remember now which surname that was and it would take too long to trawl through my thousands of names :-) to find them. If you could give us the surname it would shorten my search ..... Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ailsa Corlett Sent: 15-Nov-13 11:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Lanark] Occupation listed as Boatman on Canal - where were thecanals in Glasgow Many thanks to both Ella and you Anne. I had no idea about the Monkland Canal and I definitely feel the Dikehead which on the mining site also spells it as Dykehead is the place I have been looking for. It all fits perfectly with all the mines around it as well as the Canal. I have been having a great time today looking at the old maps, reading about the Canal etc. Anne I found that site you have mentioned and it is wonderful, could switch back and forth and really the places that were previously and are not there today is amazing. All that I feel is left of the small area called Dikehead/ Dykehead is Dykehead Road and close to it which was Langmuir is now Langmuir Way. Again thanks to all from the list for your help. Ailsa

If the births are registered in a particular district at that period, then the place of birth is normally in the district where the registration took place. The exception is where a child was born in a different parish from its parents' usual residence, in which case it was registered in the place where the birth occurred, and the Registrar there forwarded the details to the Registrar in the district where the parents normally lived. In this cad you get duplicate index entries.  Dykehead is a very common name for a farm, and occurs in parishes all over Scotland.  So I don't think that this Dykehead is the one in the parish or the one near the Lake of Menteith. It will be a different Dykehead in the parish of Old Monkland.   Go to www.nls.uk and follow the links to the digital maps of Scotland. Select 'Series Maps' and 'OS Six-inch 1843-1882'. Type 'Baillieston' in the search box and hit 'return'. This should produce a map showing Ballieston in the 1850s. Move right from Baillieston until you are level with Baillieston and below the 'M' and 'O' of 'Monkland'. You should find Dikehead, which I am willing to bet is the place you are looking for. You will also see the Monkland Canal snaking across the map above the words 'Old Monkland', and if you move the slider button marked < > at top left of the map you can see the area as it is today. Your 19th century ancestors would not recognise it now. HTH Anne

On 27/09/2013 12:18 AM, Ken wrote: > I didn't actually have that thought, since I had arrived from here, the > original God's country. > I really enjoyed Qld, but Tassie was more like home. Most of my genes were > formed over centuries in Orkney and they don't handle the heat and humidity > of Qld all that well (but Darwin was far worse!). > Maybe it's just me, and not the genes. A second cousin has been living in > Brisbane for about 30 years, and a great-great aunt (a daughter of the > Morrison from Bridge of Allan) went there (and NSW) in the 1870s. :-) > > Ken Harrison > North Vancouver, Canada > -----Original Message----- > From: Alastair [mailto:[email protected]] > So Ken, as you said, more likely the closest we came was our connection > to Brisbane in God's own state! Did you think that > when you were over here? > > Thanks Ken, > > Alastair. > Ken, it's been a long time since I received your email and I'm sorry I have taken so long to respond. On the subject of your second cousin - do you want me to look her up? On the subject of 'God's own country' - I suppose it depends on your point of view (geographically). And on that subject did you hear the one about God and the angel Gabriel? I thought not : Well one day, God took a teabreak from creating the world and He asked Gabriel to have a look at the country He'd just created. Gabriel took a look and said - My God! That's the finest piece of work you've done yet. You really are getting the hang of this stuff. Aren't you. God thanked Gabriel for the compliment while Gabby continued to enthuse about this new country. My God! Look at those beautiful mountains, and the rivers and the glens. Look at the fish swimming in them and the beautiful lochs - I've never seen such beautiful desolation. Are you going to make the rest of the world like this? God answered, No, that might ruin my plan but as I have made a beautiful land I also have to give it a beautiful people - and He did. Gabby started to extol the beauty of the land and it's people while God wondered how he could offset the beauty of the people and the land. He communicated His fears and doubts to Gabby who also began wondering the same. All of a sudden God said, "I know. Let's give them some really bad neighbours!". Ta-dum! That's it for now Ken, let me know about that 2nd cousin. Best regards, Alastair.

Hi all, asking for your help. Well, supersleuthing actually. Am looking for the family of Susannah Haughey who migrated to Australia in 1853 with her husband Michaeil McCARRON. (spelt McCairn on the wedding record) Haughey can also be spelled many ways. In 1851 Agnes Haughey married Alexander Watt in the same church. I cannot pin that as a relationship to Susannah as yet buts its a chance. I cannot find Agnes and Alexander after their marriage. I think I found Susannah in the 1841 freecen, as a teenager working in the cotton industry in Gorbals, but not with a family.. The reason for my search is the Frommelles project, hoping to identify a soldier buried at the new Fromelles Memorial cemetery. Looking for sisters of Susannah or her parents, so we can follow that line down to the present. really grateful for any help. regards Marg OLeary Port Stephens NSW [email protected] also [email protected]

Well, indeed, time has moved on in the respect that the tradition of elders of the kirk wearing morning dress (tails) has indeed died out. However, some funeral directors continue to wear this formal dress as noted at the funeral in the Auld Kirk, Ayr to which over 900 attended for the service for Jack Alexander of the Alexander Brothers this month. (Some listers had suggested that they were indeed funeral directors.) (The Alexander Brothers duo was famous for their traditional Scottish music. At one point they sold more records in Scotland than the Beatles, to emphasise their popularity.) This note from the Auld Kirk in answer to my query about elders wearing morning dress: “It was indeed the Funeral Directors that were wearing the morning suits and top hats at Jack's funeral - but what a lovely mark of respect that would be if that tradition had carried on through the years.” The newspaper photograph showing gentlemen dressed in morning suits and attending personally to the mourners had led me to wonder that they might have been kirk elders. I have never observed funeral home staff be so personally attentive at any funerals I have attended where I live in California. Further on how time might not stand still, it was impressive to see the Remembrance Day Cenotaph services at the Cenotaph, Whitehall, London, at which over 10,000 ex-military marched past, with a contingent wearing the iconic John Bull bowler hat and carrying rolled up umbrellas. It was also a reminder that a cousin of my father a few times removed had been chosen as a representative of the British Merchant Navy to lay a wreath at the Cenotaph. During the war he had had a few ships blown out from under him in the North Sea. What has this to do with genealogy on this list? Well, as I keep on harping, it is more than just barebones BDMs and census returns. It has to do with the woof and weft that creates the texture of a country where our forebears lived. A friend has just finished her “book,” but mine is a non-starter as my lot were all ordinary people, the only one seemingly of note was this Captain in the Merchant Navy who was chosen to represent this service at the Remembrance Day ceremonies. Should I start on my “book,” do I include for colour a relative nicknamed Biddy the Barracuda as she was a most unhappy soul and chewed on the characters of relatives then spat them out? What about the layabouts who didn’t know the meaning of work, or those that had wee souls born on the other side of the blanket, "’father unknown,’ and so on? Should we air all this ‘dirty laundry’ of people of your own generation, or leave the negative stuff out? The intentions of most of us are not to create the book of the month, but to record what we have learned about family history. Maisie

For Remembrance Day, for my father and other relatives who fought in WWI, my brothers during WWII, for my husband who served with the U.S.Navy during the Korean Conflict, and all the other military who fought for us so that we can live a life more fully: When You Go Home, Tell Them Of Us And Say, For Your Tomorrow, We Gave Our Today has become world-famous as the Kohima poem. The verse is attributed to John Maxwell Edmonds (1875–1958), and is thought to have been inspired by the epitaph written by Simonides to honour the Greek who fell at the Battle of Thermopylae in 480 BC.[4] Maisie ”

In my posting re Scottish traditions: Of course it should have been Baltimore, MARYLAND that my husband’s Irish relatives went to...mental slip. Maisie

Some time back I wrote about how the traditions at Scottish church funerals might have died out where such as the elders would dress up in tails, such as the neighbour who wore his tails and top hat at his wife’s funeral back in the 1940s. I was so surprised, therefore, to see a photo of one of the elders at the Auld Kirk, Ayr, in formal tails greeting some of the 900 mourners at the service for Jack Alexander of the famous Alexander Brothers. This dress style seems like such an anachronism in 2013, yet seemingly the tradition lives on. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/hundreds-turn-out-to-say-farewell-to-legend-of-scots-music.22645501?utm_source=headlines&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email%2Balert The Alexander Brothers continued to cater to the musical tastes for who those who enjoyed traditional Scottish music, but with a modern twist as well. When my brother died his daughter played ‘Ae Fond Kiss’ on the violin, one of the most beautiful love songs composed by Robert Burns. This will go into my ‘narrative’ when I start recording my side of the family tree. I am almost finished with my husband’s Irish connection, which has been comparatively simple as I can’t find anything on the lives of his great-grandparents before they left Ireland in the 1830s to start up new lives in Baltimore, Ireland. The same is to be said for his father’s side who came from Austria in the late 1800s. The genealogy ‘narrative’ on my side will take an eternity as I have gathered so much information: BDMs, censuses, etc., over the years. I would never have gathered up so much material without the help of so many listers on this site and others in Southwest Scotland. None of my forebears was a luminary like this Jack Alexander, however, and I sorta envy the fact that he was such a well-known artiste in Scotland that the media have likely covered his life in-depth over the years. C’est la vie! Maisie

'Forwarded' from the ONTARIO , Canada Roots List. It may be of interest to some whose descendants were from these British Home children. Ruth Subject: [ONTARIO] Home Children Wreath Honouring British Home Children to Be Laid at National War Memorial in Ottawa The British Home Children and their descendants who joined the services will be remembered with a wreath to be laid at the National War Memorial on Monday, November 11, 2013. This wreath honours the British Home Children and their descendants who enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force as well as their descendants who chose to join the Canadian Military Services since that time. The wreath will be laid by a representative of the Ontario East British Home Child Family, Gloria Tubman. *********** Ten People All Genealogists Should Follow On Twitter: http://www.geneabloggers.com/ten-people-genealogists-follow-twitter/ Search Ontario Genealogy & Resources at http://olivetreegenealogy.com/can/ont/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Marg I drafted a reply to your original post, and now realise that I saved it to my 'Drafts folder' and didn't send it. This is it. It wanders a bit but it may help. "Some thoughts: here in the UK, in 1915, the upper age limit for volunteers enlisting in the British army was 40. Conscription was introduced in 1916, and I think the upper age limit was increased to 41 (these limits did not apply to those who had previously served in the army). If Australia had the same limits, then it is not unlikely that James Dobbie did subtract a year or two from his age at enlistment. Since he gave a friend as his nok, it suggests that not only did he not have near relatives in Australia but that his parents were dead. Without knowing any details of his life in Scotland apart from an uncertain year of birth and place of birth (he may have been born in Lanarkshire or Renfrewshire but gave Glasgow as the nearest recognisable place of birth), I think the answer to your search probably lies in Australia and not in Scotland or the rest of the UK. I assume you have looked for him on the Australian electoral registers? And what about Arthur Horsefield. Have you managed to trace him? I had a look at the birth registrations of a number of James DOBBIEs born in Lanarkshire between 1870 and 1876. The one who seemed most likely based on his month of birth and place of birth was James Dobbie born in Glasgow on 22 March 1871 to William Dobbie, Blacksmith, and Isabella Robertson. But he died in 1872. The only other birth in Glasgow during this period was James DOBBIE born September 10 1872 to James Dobbie, Funeral Undertaker, and Catherine Carroll. I could not find a death registration for him." Rhoda

POsted the story abt James Dobbie below. Kept coming up with brick walls Since then, due to tracking his work as a ship's fireman over about 15 years up to 1914, he consistently said he was born in 1871 or 1872. So when he said he was 40 on enlistment, he was probably a bit older. I am now seeking a James Dobbie born Glasgow, 1871 or 72, looking for any guidance re same. Found 2 in the 1881 census, one had a father who was an undertaker and the other's father was a blacksmith. Which do you think is more likely. Any interesting deductions?. Previous post I have been trying to track James Dobbie who died in WW1 in 1916, France, one of the Fromelles burials.. Am trying to find which family he came from. Grateful for any guidance. Its quite a brick wall. According to his war record (Australian) the following "facts" are known. he was 40 years and five months when he signed up in July 1915. And he was born in Glasgow. His occupation was marine fireman (stoker?) His next of kin was a friend Arthur Horsefield of Sydney, so presume he had no family in Aus. I think I tracked him arriving as a crew man in Sydney in 1901. I looked in the 1881 census, thinking I could pick him out and tracked the most obvious candidate, born in Glasgow, though Scotlands People, but found he died in Slamannan in 1944.

From: Ken Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:16 AM To: 'Maisie Egger' ; [email protected] ; [email protected] Subject: RE: [Lanark] LANARK Digest, Vol 8, Issue 183 Hi Ken and others There is actually one Rhododendron native to Australia - R. lochae. It has a very limited distribution in a mountainous area of north-east Queensland. Jean Hegarty NSW Australia [Just for the record, rhodos are not indigenous to Australia. Small indigenous ones are found all across mountainous areas of the northern half of the northern hemisphere but the really big, colourful ones originally came from the Himalayan Mountains. They LOVE the climate in Scotland and Ireland! Ken Harrison North Vancouver, Canada]

Hi, I have downloaded a very good possible for my William Gardner, saying he died in 1841 and the burial registers from Scotlandspeople shows the following: Death 17 Jan 1841, funeral 21 Jan 1841, William Gardner, Labourer, Residence: Renton, Undertaker or Wrights: Craig; Where Buried: In the Lair of: Robert Craig, No & Wall: 7 West; Churchyard: New Gr'd; Causing Death, Decline; Age Male 69; Style of Funeral: Carriage - Hearse, with 2 Horses; Nothing in the Charge for Moving Grave Stone, or in the Price of Ground, but Charge for Funeral was 6s It has taken me may years to find this record and I believe I have the correct one finally. BUT I have some questions. 1: Renton - from the record, which is hard to read, but it is definitely a R then looks like en, and positive of ton, making up Renton - I cannot find except references saying in Dunbartonshire. My family of Gardner's, up to 1819 of the last birth, were living in Barony Glasgow, this is occurring to the OPR's of any of the children's births, just say Barony. Q. Could it be Renton St, which today shows on the maps just above Cowcaddens Rd and round the Glasgow Caledonian University and the M8 or could it be the Renton showing as being in Dunbartonshire ? The burial is definitely recorded as being in Glasgow. the strange thing is that I downloaded the original entry back in 2010, but now if I go to find it again on the records it does not show, no matter what details I put in, including the GROS number, but if I go back to 2010 on my history, it is there and I can still bring it up with the same details, actually came up better this time around and able to read it better hence my queries. Ref if 644/01 0012 1841 Glasgow City, Glasgow/Lanark BTW when they married in 1792, William Gardner to Elizabeth Gilmour, William was listed as a Smith. So I expected him to be associated with this type of occupation or similar around 1841. Son Alexander born 1819, Barony his occupation was a carter, Pit Bottomer, Watchman, and finally on his death cert as Pit headman in the Colliery. 2: Buried in the Lair of Robert Craig: and the surname of the Undertaker or Wright was Craig: Sorry I have no idea what this means?? Can someone help here please to explain about Lairs and also the association of Undertaker or Wright? Are they the one and same or is the Robert Craig some other family member? 3. Churchyard: Says New Gr'd - I have found this means from looking at the other records on the page, this would mean New Graveyard - does this then mean the Glasgow Necropolis as this would be near Barony, and I know the Barony churchyard by this time was closed?? I have looked at Memento-mori regarding MI's, and there is nothing for William or for Robert Craig that I could ID. But I know this is only MI and not the burial details. Are there any further burial information that would be worth while getting apart from the wonderful burial record I have been able to obtain?? I doubt there would be an MI standing by this stage that would also be able to be read. 4. Style of Funeral: states it was carriage by Hearse with 2 horses. Cost of 6s, others also state Noddy 3s 6d, Chaise 4s 6d, Arms 1s, Spokes 2s 6d. Can someone explain all the differences to me please. Seems from the other records on the page, the Hearse and the Chaise could vary depending on amount of horses and Ushers and of course the removal of stone for the burial. My William appears to be the first one buried in this ground, as it states nothing for moving the grave stone and no price in the price of the Ground. 5. If he had a funeral with a Hearse with 2 horses, what is the chance of his notice being recorded in the newspaper, and if so what one could that be. I have full access to findmypast, ancestry and also been told about the Google newspapers regarding Lanark. Any assistance in understanding about the above information will make it easier for me to definitely say this is my William Gardner or not. Kind regards Ailsa in Brisbane Qld Ailsa Corlett [email protected] www.st.net.au/~ailsa alternative email if having trouble sending to my normal email is: [email protected]

Rhododendrons? I think it's time to unsubscribe. Fraser Forrest On 11/4/2013 6:16 PM, Don Muirhead wrote:

http://www.rhododendron.org/v47n3p139.htm

Hi Elizabeth Seems we are connected Janet Izat and william Penman are on my McHale line Kind regards Jean > Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 04:46:41 -0800 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Lanark] Joe Blow goes back to the 6th century---really! > > Dear Maisie, > I don't often respond but I had to in this case. I can trace my lineage all the way back. It was sheer luck. My William Penman married Janet Iset in 1774 in Tulliallan, Perth. " William Penman of Airth Parish and Janet Izat of this - married 4 Nov". Janet was baptised in 1755 to Willliam Izatt and Janet Coult in Tulliallan. They were a mining family and their monuments can be seen in the Tulliallan churchyard with the miner's hammer on them. They also tended to move around because of that. Towns frequented by mining families were Tulliallan, Alloa, Airth, and Larbert. I assume Janet Izat and William Penman knew of each other due to Janet's uncle Andrew marrying Isobel Jack from Airth. Janet's mother Isobel Coult was baptised 1736 to Thomas Coult or Colt and Isobel Steuart. Isobel's father was Walter Steuart and his grandfather was James Steuart who left quite a notable will in which he parsimoniously leaves token money to all his > children who were now living in Tulliallan. He was of the Episcopalian faith and his children had become Covenanters. He was the changekeeper at Bridge of Allan and back in 1900 a lady named Katherine Steuart wrote a book called By Allan Water which was endorsed by a professor at the University of Edinburgh. In that book she traces the Steuarts back to the illegitimate children of Alexander Steuart, Bishop of Scone and second son of James II. I think she used land leases because the names have "died before" on them. The land concerned was a farm at the crook of the Almond River just down from Scone. They called the land "Rome" because they found a Roman encampment on it. The family were known as the "Paips of Rome" because of the land and their questionable birth. So, all in all, sheer luck that somebody wrote a book back in 1900. > > I've also traced another side of my family down using witnesses at baptisms and found myself with Henry Frazer, Ross Herald as an ancestor. My several great grandfathers Charles Frazer died a miner but was christened with George Innes, King's Trumpeter as a witness. His father, James Frazer was a merchant and principal servitor to the Earl of Cassillis (which is why they ended up in Ayrshire and then Greenock). James Norie, the famous Scottish painter was the sponsor at his baptism in the parents' absence. His father, also called James had George Porteous, heraldic painter and Marchmount Herald as his baptism as his father was Henry Frazer, Ross Herald and half brother to George Porteous. Charles' mother was Mary Masterton and from her I can trace back to Bruces of Airth and Clackmannan. > > > Firstly, I think it depends on which side of the country you come from. I have had absolutely no luck tracing anyone on the west coast. My Ayrshire lines (except for Charles Frazer) all end in the 1770's. The lines that I have been able to trace all came from around the Edinburgh area or along the Firth. The other thing to remember is that it was entirely possible to go from riches to rags in one generation between 1650 and 1710 especially when the monarchy moved south followed by the Parliament. A whole middle/upper class of people in Edinburgh suddenly found there was nobody to buy their wares or use their services. Court offices existed with nothing to do as the king was in London but they had to be maintained in case he came back for a visit. In desperation, a lot of people invested in the Darien Adventure to found a colony in Panama. That bankrupted the country. > > Keep plugging. As somebody mentioned - we're all descended from Edward III. > > > Elizabeth Russon > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2013 10:07:09 -0700 > From: "Maisie Egger" <[email protected]> > Subject: [Lanark] Joe Blow goes back to the 6th century---really! > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hello, all, > > How do I keep my ?cool?? > > When I pooh-pooh a friends? claims that he?s descended from kings and queens back to the year dot, he insists that he has documentation to prove it. It drives me crackers as his latest assertion is that he is related to Margaret of Wessex, England, who was actually born in Hungary where the family was exiled, who then became Queen Margaret of Scotland when she married the rascally Malcolm !!!, and then Saint Margaret of Scotland (the only Scottish saint). Margaret is the one responsible for reforming the religious practices of the church in Scotland at that time to conform to those of Rome. She was canonised 1250. > > She was born ca 1045 and died at Edinburgh Castle 1093 a couple of days after her husband Malcolm III (Canmore=Bighead) and son Edward were killed at the Battle of Alnwick, Northumbria (England). > > Margaret and Malcolm III had eight children, three of whom would become kings of Scotland: Edgar 1097-1107: Alexander I 1107-1124: David 1 1124-1153. > > It is from David I that my friend claims lineage through this so-called royal line. Really! > > We now travel back in time for more of his braggadocio to 500-589 to David, Welsh bishop, who later became St. David, patron saint of Wales (St. Andrew is the patron saint of Scotland; St. George patron saint of England of St. George and the Dragon myth, then add on St. Patrick, each with his respective cross to make up the Union flag/jack, but somehow St. David was not included!). There is nothing that I could glean from Google that this David of Wales, who founded many monasteries, left any progeny. The Welsh church refused the Roman rite into the 8th century, so it is assumed that prior to that maybe some of the monks/religious may not have been celibate. My friend is trying to tell me he?s from this St. David. Really again! > > All this potted history, with no direct connection to Lanark, to ask...again...where does my American friend come up with this ?stuff,? and better yet, where does he find the documentation? He is aligned with the LDS/Mormon church and I believe it is a requirement of this group that one does one?s family tree. My friend is definitely an ordinary Joe blow with not one penny to rub against the other, so he is not a ?reincarnated? royal living in a pseudo castle...anything but. > > When he trots out all this ?stuff,? I do become irked as I?m not sure whether he is being na?ve in swallowing all these ?facts,? or if he actually believes them. He is a brilliant person otherwise. The farthest back I?ve landed on a limb of my tree was in the mid-1600s and they were the English, with the Irish born in the late 1700s who appeared in Glasgow in the early 1800s, whilst the Scottish born and bred ones, mainly from Lanarkshire south to the English border, surface in the early 1700s. I mean, their roots have to go back and back, of course, but I haven?t found documentation of such as yet. > > How the harry heck does this friend get back to the 6th century when I can?t even find my great-great-grandfather?s father when he was born in the 1790s? Plus, to irk me even more, New Register House cannot find a little book of banns where I was so excited to find the banns recorded for this great-great-grandfather of mine and his wife. In the interim, the book apparently has not been digitised, and even if it were to be found (it apparently has done a disappearing trick!), it will no longer be accessible to the public. YET, my friend says he has documentation that he belongs to David 1 of Scotland and St. David of Wales. Groan!!! > > Maisie > > ------------------------------ > > ------------------------------- > > WHEN REPLYING to a post please remember to snip most of the earlier message. Be sure the reply to address shows as [email protected] > > You may contact the List Admin at [email protected] or click on the following link to the list information page online: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/SCT/LANARK.html > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is just a friendly reminder that, when the topic of discussion makes a turn, the subject line needs changing accordingly. I appreciate the fact that the "Joe Blow" discussion seems to have died out so no more for me to say about that. I still enjoy the energetic discussions that you folks have here. It really brightens the day. Best wishes, Jim -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maisie Egger Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 10:58 PM To: Elizabeth Russon; [email protected] Subject: [Lanark] Lanark] Joe Blow goes back to the 6th century---really! Great genealogy research, Elizabeth. That must have taken a long time to put the pieces together. I liked your history notes, too. Oftentimes we get hung up on the romance of Scotland, ignoring the ups and downs...same with our own individual trees. (I snipped the rest for size considerations)

Great genealogy research, Elizabeth. That must have taken a long time to put the pieces together. I liked your history notes, too. Oftentimes we get hung up on the romance of Scotland, ignoring the ups and downs...same with our own individual trees. Even though my friend "bums his chat" about finding his antecedents back to the year dot, I patronise him! I can't argue or refute as I have no clues where he got his information from. I just think that he gilds the lily and believes what he wants to believe. Today, my friend Malcolm in England who moves heaven and earth to help me fill in the slots, uncovered the birth, marriage and death certificates of my father's cousin a few times removed, though they were of the same age and "hung out" when he came to Glasgow. He was born in Kirkcudbrightshire, but I found him living at Stanhope St., Townhead, Glasgow, in the same house where my father was born, as well as his mother and where her parents lived. He married a Glasgow person, I assume, but I don't have her birth certificate yet. He was a master shoemaker and she a domestic servant. His father before him was a shoemaker and forebears before him also plied the same trade. They were married in the minister's manse at 8 Queen Margaret Crescent, now changed to Hamilton Dr., Hillhead, a top drawer area in the west end of Glasgow where the University of Glasgow is located and where the natives are accused of being toffy-nosed with their Kelvinside speech affectation...no' Glesga patter for them! Even though the minister had his manse in this more affluent neighbourhood, the church was Dundas St. Congregational Union of Scotland, right smack dab in the middle of downtown Glasgow almost on top of Queen Street railway station. The answer as to why she attended this church is perhaps because her Townhead residence showed that it was a comparatively easy walk to the church. Maybe she just liked being a Congregationalist! Family stories had it that my father's cousin had gone to either Australia or New Zealand. Some very kind Australian and New Zealand listers some years back turned the world upside down trying to find him somewhere Downunder. Can you imagine my chagrin today when his death certificate showed he actually died at age 54 in a hospital in Glasgow not too far from where he had married at age 28! He'd stayed put! Apparently he and his wife had divorced; however, in registering his death she refers to herself as his widow. Howcum? The next part of the story is that she and her daughter went to Australia (or maybe New Zealand) on the £10 assisted passage, maybe around 1945-47, but it was after the war, of course. She must have been in her mid- fifties by then. Her first name was Mary but she went by Poll, short for Polly, which is the diminutive for Mary or Margaret. Now before I request SKS again in Australia or New Zealand to hunt for her and her daughter, who may have married after she left Glasgow, I need to go on the hunt for a death certificate in Glasgow, or at least in G.B. somewhere. If it can't be found, maybe logic should suggest that she could have gone to Australia or New Zealand with her daughter. This big long story is to remind us that sometimes family lore is just that but that "facts are chiels that winna ding and downa be disputed" ---facts are men that cannot be overturned or disputed (to quote Robert Burns). Today, I feel grateful for Malcolm helping me to get rid of some misconceptions I've been hanging on to forever! Maisie From: Elizabeth Russon Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 4:46 AM Dear Maisie, I don't often respond but I had to in this case. I can trace my lineage all the way back. It was sheer luck. My William Penman married Janet Iset in 1774 in Tulliallan, Perth. " William Penman of Airth Parish and Janet Izat of this - married 4 Nov". Janet was baptised in 1755 to Willliam Izatt and Janet Coult in Tulliallan. They were a mining family and their monuments can be seen in the Tulliallan churchyard with the miner's hammer on them. They also tended to move around because of that. Towns frequented by mining families were Tulliallan, Alloa, Airth, and Larbert. I assume Janet Izat and William Penman knew of each other due to Janet's uncle Andrew marrying Isobel Jack from Airth. Janet's mother Isobel Coult was baptised 1736 to Thomas Coult or Colt and Isobel Steuart. Isobel's father was Walter Steuart and his grandfather was James Steuart who left quite a notable will in which he parsimoniously leaves token money to all his children who were now living in Tulliallan. He was of the Episcopalian faith and his children had become Covenanters. He was the changekeeper at Bridge of Allan and back in 1900 a lady named Katherine Steuart wrote a book called By Allan Water which was endorsed by a professor at the University of Edinburgh. In that book she traces the Steuarts back to the illegitimate children of Alexander Steuart, Bishop of Scone and second son of James II. I think she used land leases because the names have "died before" on them. The land concerned was a farm at the crook of the Almond River just down from Scone. They called the land "Rome" because they found a Roman encampment on it. The family were known as the "Paips of Rome" because of the land and their questionable birth. So, all in all, sheer luck that somebody wrote a book back in 1900. ..........etc............