Hi Sherry! I am just in Mumbai (formerly Bombay) for a few days business - back in the UK on Thursday. There are still a few Scots names are here, but no Lairds yet! Yours aye Iain

I apologize, I've been out of town for awhile... is this still in reference to the Mrs. Carl Laird postcard? I'm still wondering if it could be my Uncle Carl's wife, Aunt Ora. Couldn't read what the postcard said, so I couldn't make any connection. Can anyone else shed some light on that postcard? Thanks BobbiLaird@aol.com

Hi! Iain, do you live in Bombay, or are you just visiting?? And does anyone out there have any info on the following people?? Is this o.k. to ask here? I'm a new subscriber, and I sure don't want to upset anyone, but I'm searching for "Dad's People" for my mom. Thanks! I'm enjoying learning from this letter, though I guess I'd love to hear I was related to someone historically famous, etc. Sherry http://www.rootsweb.com/~ksscgs/ http://www.grapevine.net/~wgtnavia >Thanks, Patricia. Good to hear from you again. It's a pleasure to >participate and knowing where to look helps, and a great deal of what we need >is in the UK. Actually I'm in Mumbai (Bombay) at the moment, and practically >everything I need is in the UK!!! > >Yours aye > >Iain > > >==== LAIRD Mailing List ==== >List archive search engines? See resource page at: >http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/l/a/LAIRD/ > >

Very interesting....... Nathaniel, (son of Nathaniel who immigrated to the Us from Scottland, around the 1740's) and his wife Agness Scott, had 5 children : 1. Margaret "Peggy" b. 16 Jan., 1783 in N.Carolina 2. John b. 18 Feb., 1789 in Iredell, Co.N.C. 3. James S. b. 6. Aug., 1798 in Rowen Co., N.C. (from whom I descend) 4. Nathanial b. 29 Oct., 1797 in Irdell Co.N.C. 5. Andrew b. 28 Feb., 1802 in Irdell Co., N.C. The person of possable interest to you is Margaret "Peggy" she married Elias Scott on 27 Feb, 1822 in Maury Co., Tenn. They lived in Lincoln Co., Tenn in 1850. Their known children: Angeline R. Lifty (Arlifta?)Scott b. 1822 in Tenn John Laird Scott b. 1824 in Tenn m. Hermett ________ Their known Children: Angeline Scott b. 1844 in Tenn Elias Scott b. 1845 in Tenn Perhaps this explains your Laird/Scott connection... Sorry I took so long to respond, I'm in a Master's program and very overwelmed by the amount of work. Therefor I am only able to spend one or two days a month on my genealogy. If you would like to respond it is helpful to place my first name in the first part of the subject line. When I scan my e-mail I read these first. Happy Hunting :-) Sally Andolino San Diego

Thanks, Patricia. Good to hear from you again. It's a pleasure to participate and knowing where to look helps, and a great deal of what we need is in the UK. Actually I'm in Mumbai (Bombay) at the moment, and practically everything I need is in the UK!!! Yours aye Iain

Iain, I have been off line lately, needing a break from genealogy. Thank you so much for your help in tracking down the letter. This will help lay to rest the speculation that it has presented. Your efforts have been of great service to all of us on this list, who desire the truth no matter where it may lead us. I have enjoyed all of your postings. Thanks again. Sincerely, Patricia Laird Howard

Now that the "German" origin of Lairds would appear to have been dismissed by the College of Arms (at least as far as the factual references to Chancery, the "heraldic role" of H Harnage, genealogy and a grant of Arms in England are concerned), it is worth remembering that there are many other elements of the letter of W T Laird that are correct. I am sure he believed the story he was told. There were Lairds at Aberdour in Buchan, Aberdeenshire. The modern town is New Aberdour, but it is still a parish name. There was a castle and before that a fort at Dundargue at Aberdour Bay of great antiquity. The area suffered in the attempts to retain James VII as King against William of Orange, and there had been fighting there during the Civil War in Scotland some 50 years earlier. There was a Henry Harnage in Shropshire, on the Severn. I have checked further into his ancestry through the IGI. His father was from Blackfriars in London and his father in turn was possibly named Blackman, and was born in the West Indies. They appear to have been rather "grand" but may have made their money in the West Indies and had certainly created a position for themselves. Perhaps they took the few facts that W T Laird's brother knew and made something more of it to achieve more status for a prospective son-in-law? Perhaps he was aware of William Laird of Glenhuntly - if it is the Glen or Strath near modern Strathbogie and Huntly Castle, it was only 35 miles away. William Laird's Arms have the Stag's Head of Rollo as the crest. Rollo was a real warlord. He was a Viking with a large following, and raided in the North Sea to the extent that the French King granted him the land that became Normandy, and gave rise to the Norman people. It was the Vikings who dominated the seas in the 900s and 1000s and their domination continued until the Battle of Largs. For 600 years Scotland, down to Perth was part of the Kingdom of Norway. So perhaps the Arms he refers to are those of William Laird of Glenhuntly. And the warlord is a memory of Rollo. So I believe all still points back to Norway. This is what my family remembers. And it is the Sinclairs who are the direct descendants of Rollo. And I believe the Lairds, in Caithness at least, have always been alongside the Sinclairs. Perhaps in Aberdeenshire they were with that other great Norman Clan, the Gordons. Both families clung to catholicism and the Stuarts too long for their own good in a protestant dominated Scotland, though my family has been Scots Presbyterian (Church of Scotland) as long as we can remember. Politics and religion rarely separate in Scots and Irish history and dominate the scene in Ireland to this day. There may still be a southern Scots origin of Laird, as in the conventional references, but I still think most of us should look to Norway for our origins. Again I would point you to the Sinclair "Discussion" website at "www.mids.org/sinclair/" which is a great store of information and history from Norway in the 900s to Rosslyn near Edinburgh in the 14th Century , and Caithness from the 900s. But this is still speculation, so we keep looking! Yours aye Iain

Dear Cousins I have had a reply from the College of Arms in London. It confirms what many of us had suspected, that there is no basis to the "Count Hlawford" story as set out in W T Laird's 1888 letter, though many other elements in the letter are correct. The rest is speculation. Yours aye Iain The College of Arms, London, E.C.4. 22 September 1999 Dear Mr Laird, Thank you for your fax of 12 September addressed to the College of Arms which has been passed to me as Officer in Waiting. I am afraid that I can find nothing here to support the story contained in the letter of 1888 of which you sent a transcript. There is no such position, or anything like it as a "commissioner in the National Heraldic Office". A coat of arms and crest does not lie in Chancery. The Chancery Courts never had anything to do with heraldry. I have searched our official records here and there is no pedigree of Laird recorded here in this century or the nineteenth century. There has been no grant or confirmation of arms to any person named Laird in this century or the last 50 years of the nineteenth century. I did not search back any further than that. The possibility remains that one of the heralds here might have undertaken genealogical research on the Laird family but that the resulting pedigree was not entered into the official records here. But certainly no right to arms or crest was established. Yours sincerely, D.V. White Rouge Croix Pursuivant

Hi everyone, I still have not had any luck locating info. on my gg grandfather Joseph Laird (born in Ireland), his wife Catharine Foley (from England) or his daughter Maragaret Ann Laird my gg grandmother. She married Thomas Henry Hammond in the late 1850's. I don't know exactly when they came to PA. But I am guessing it was around 1830's-1840's. Catharine and Joseph were both born abroad. Anyway they all settled and lived in Upland , PA near Philadelphia. Anyone else have these names in their database? If so I'd love to hear from you. Thanks, Diane Hammond Watson

Another link to W T Laird's 1888 Story? From the IGI. Yours aye Iain Individual Record FamilySearch® Ancestral File™ v4.19 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Henry HARNAGE (AFN: MQB8-K7) Sex: M - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Event(s): Born: 24 Jun 1827 , Belswardyne Hall, Shropshire, England Died: 13 Jan 1888 Cronage, Near Ironbridge, Shropshire, England - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Parents: Father: George HARNAGE (AFN: MQB8-9T) Mother: Caroline Helene GOODRICH (AFN: MQB8-GP) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Marriage(s): Spouse: Elizabeth Sarah Maude EGREMONT (AFN: MQB8-LD) Marriage: 4 Oct 1866

More news! My Mother has spoken to our relatives from Aberdeenshire, who advise Huntly Castle is at Strathbogie where the rivers Bogie and Deveron meet. The "valley" through which the Bogie flows is also known as Strathbogie. "Strath" means a wide valley, and it was once called Strath-huntly. A short step from that to Glenhuntly? Speculation, but perhaps the closest we will get. And not far from W T Laird's Aberdour (about 35 miles). Check out the Huntly Castle website at http://www.castles.org/Chatelaine/HUNTLY.HTM. Yours aye Iain p.s. I should have mentioned in my Lairds of Birkenhead message, that quite coincidentally, I stayed there in 1980/81. I worked at the Pier Head in Liverpool, taking the Mersey Ferry from Birkenhead each day and had a view of the Cammell Laird yard in all weathers. If only I had known then what I know now!

I have found a little more information about the shipbuilders and some good websites. William Laird started the shipyards in Birkenhead in 1824 and laid the beginnings of the town as a grid pattern with Hamilton Square at the commercial center. URL: http://www.vwlowen.demon.co.uk/wirral/wirral.htm His son was John Laird and their yard made fine ships from 1824 onward. Perhaps its most famous vessel was the warship and raider, the "Alabama". She was purchased by the Confederates in the American civil war and had a short career sinking merchantmen of the Northern Union States. The Alabama was finally sunk by the Union battleship "Kearsarge" in the Bay of Biscay in 1864. John Laird was Birkenhead's first mayor in 1877. His statue stands in Hamilton square, one of the finest 19th century squares in Britain. URL: http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/birkenhead/index.htm Birkenhead Town Hall is located in Hamilton Square, one of Wirral's finest architectural attractions. It was opened in 1887 by John and William Laird - Birkenhead's great shipbuilding pioneers - and served as the administrative centre of the town until 1974. URL: http://www.merseyworld.com/wirral_tourist/wirral6.html There is a picture of Hamilton Square and the Town Hall opened by the Lairds at URL: http://www.vwlowen.demon.co.uk/wirral/birkhall.htm The more recent genealogy of the Birkenhead shipbuilders can be found at URL:http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wardjc/glengyle.htm. It does not show William Laird's father, but the IGI on line shows his father as John Laird born 1754 W.Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland. There are two books on the yard, now known as Cammell Laird. "Cammell Laird: The Golden Years" by - by David Roberts. Foreword by Frank Field MP. A look back at the world famous shipyard's history with particular focus upon the 1960s and 70s when Lairds were engaged in the building of Polaris Nuclear submarines. A unique look at the history of this yard that contains many photographs and references. URL: http://www.avidpublications.co.uk/lairds_golden.html The second book also by David Roberts is Life At Lairds An enormously successful book documenting the memories of working shipyard men. It is about what life was like for the ordinary people who worked in Cammell Lairds shipyard, through two World Wars to the present day. These are the voices of some of the men who built the ships that carried the navies and the food, the coal and the iron, and the weapons of war. The ships that are part of the history of Britain. There are some good sites on the Alabama with reference to the Laird Shipbuilders. "CSS Alabama, the birth of a raider", URL: http://www.gardenroute.org.za/shipyard/ships/alabama/alabama_history.htm. Plans of the "Alabama" can be found at URL: http://www.slis.ua.edu/tgtest/cssala/LOWDECK.HTM There is a good picture of the shipyard at URL: http://www.slis.ua.edu/tgtest/cssala/LAIRD2.HTM And an interesting report by the Union spies at the shipyard at URL: http://www.slis.ua.edu/tgtest/cssala/SPY.HTM There is an account of MacGregor Laird (1808-1861) and his African discoveries, having sailed to Africa in a ship of his own design. One of the elders at Canisbay Kirk (I think Robert Sinclair, the owner of the "Last House Museum at John O'Groats, once a Laird home) in 1993 told us that the shipbuilders were of the Caithness Laird Family, but I can only get the line back to Renfrewshire. Good browsing! Yours aye Iain Laird

Dear Iain: You are an invaluable resourse for "GENE-IES", and we thank you Signed: FatFingerFrank (cause I have to retype about ninety percent of everything my fingers Miss on the keyboard) THEY CALL IT TOUCH TYPING BUT I CALL IT "TRIPPLE TOUCH" AND DELETE TYPING "EL FLOHO TRABAJAR DOUBLE"("They lazy one works twice") INSLaird@cs.com wrote: > > Dear Frank > > Thank you for your further message. To give you an idea of the distances > involved, Berwick to Peebles is about 63 miles, Berwick to Paisley, > Renfrewshire is about 120 miles. Berwick to New Aberdour, Aberdeenshire is > 237 miles and Berwick to Wick, Caithness is 322 miles. Berwick was lost to > the English in 1333 and up to then had been the main port of Scotland. There > is a good aerial photograph of Berwick at > "http://members.tripod.com.mcbishop/elizabet.htm". > > Yours aye > > Iain > > ==== LAIRD Mailing List ==== > Laird Family Association Website: http://www.qcsi.net/lfa

Dear Frank Thanks for your message. It's a pleasure to share with you what little I know. Please let me know if there is anything else you wish to clarify, and I'll do the best I can. Por lo que he visto, no eres tan flojo! But I am pretty much a two finger typist and rely on computer spelling checks to pick up the worst errors, so I sympathise! Yours aye Iain

I have found quite a useful Clan Map at the following URL: "http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~gatti/gabaldon/clanmap.html" With so many places mentioned in our discussion groups and with so much history revealed, a map can often bring things into focus. It certainly serves to explain why Lairds in Caithness would seek to support the Sinclairs (along with the better known local families, Budges, Clynes, Linklaters, Lyalls and Masons). Yours aye Iain

Another reference can be found at "http://www.islands.cc/clan.baird/auchmedden.htm" Yours aye Iain

Dear Patricia While waiting for the College of Arms reply, I have been looking further into the elements of the letter. Again, it we find everything in Aberdeenshire. There is a place, New Aberdour, to the west of Fraserburgh, on the Buchan coast. Near New Aberdour is Old Aberdour Church, said to be one of the oldest churches in the North East of Scotland. Close by is Dundargue Castle and Fort. The North East has a strong Pictish heritage. New Aberdour is about 35 miles from Huntly. Aberdour is also the parish name. Further information can be found at "http://www.urie.demon.co.uk/genuki/ABD/Aberdour/description.html". There is also an active parish map at "http://www.urie.demon.co.uk/genuki/ABD/parishmap1.html" which will give you a better idea of the area. I have also found a story describing support for the Crown in the area, which has resonance to some of the Laird stories, in Buchan, some 14 miles from New Aberdour in a Buchan website: Fedderate Castle The gaunt remains of the once massive Fedderate Castle stand two miles to the north-west of Maud, reached by the road leading on from Castle Road. Fedderate was build by William Crawford who held the barony between 1474 and 1519. The four-storey L-plan tower originally stood within a courtyard, with defensive towers on the outer walls. A drawbridge spanned the moat to give access. The surrounding land consisted mainly of bog and the original castle must have seemed a very safe refuge indeed. The present state of the castle is a legacy of the revolutionary times of James the Second and the struggle for crown and power. The castle was reported to have been the last strongholds of James II's supporters. The castle was besieged for four weeks and finally destroyed by the forces of King William III (William of Orange) in 1690, during the civil strife of that period. There are many legends relating to Fedderate and, as might be expected, the ruins are said to be haunted. The URL is "http://www.buchan.org.uk/" By James II, they mean James VII. He was James II of England but the VII of Scotland! There is a further description and picture of Fedderate Castle in another local site: "http://www.buchanweb.demon.co.uk/his-mau.htm". I think we are on to something here! Yours aye Iain

Dear Frank Thank you for your further message. To give you an idea of the distances involved, Berwick to Peebles is about 63 miles, Berwick to Paisley, Renfrewshire is about 120 miles. Berwick to New Aberdour, Aberdeenshire is 237 miles and Berwick to Wick, Caithness is 322 miles. Berwick was lost to the English in 1333 and up to then had been the main port of Scotland. There is a good aerial photograph of Berwick at "http://members.tripod.com.mcbishop/elizabet.htm". Yours aye Iain

I'd like to correspond with any Lairds from Arkansas. I'm looking for my Great Grandfather's family - his name was M.C. Laird, born approx 1887 in Arkansas. He married Pearl Hopkins and together they moved to Truckee, California. They had three children, Viola, Orville and Horace. They divorced in the early 1900's, Pearl moved with the children to Arizona, M.C. stayed in California as far as we know. After the divorce, either he cut himself off from the family, or she did, I'm not sure how that went, but my father only saw him one time in his life an that was in the 1930's some time in Los Angeles. I'd love to hear from anyone in Arkansas and see if we can come up with some common info. As for now, MC is lost to me, I'm hoping I can get some info about his family and go from there.

Thanks Iain for your informative email. A Book now out of publication is in the SCOTTISH FESTIVAL MUSEUM in SALADO Tx.[where pole tossing, and other games are done in full KILT and ,tartan.plaid regalia,etc including music ( an anual event) The references to Laird as a surname are REFERENCEDin that BOOK from the BERWICK and PEEBLES Subclan entries. The Publication has been out of print sinces about 1920, but the Historical data about Scotts are not only referencing LAIRDS but , Camerons,Campbells,Mac(ADD ANY surname after that is considered Scottish and it) will be included in that book. I am attempting to get the STATE Historical Society to do a Reference on all items in the Museum and in particular those books. Thanks Again Francis Marion Laird FatFingerFrank >INSLaird@cs.com wrote: > > Dear Frank > > I am in Norway at the moment, and so away from my books. To give you > something of an idea, Berwick, where the Lairds were first recorded in the > 13th Century, when it was Scots, has been in North East England since the > 14th Century, just south of the Scottish Border. Peebles is still in > Scotland, but not far from Berwick, and is in the Borders. Renfrewshire is > on the outskirts of Glasgow over on the south west coast (I am prepared to be > corrected by Graeme Laird on its precise limits, as I am more familiar with > the east coast!). Caithness is the northermost county of Scotland, situated > on the north east coast of the mainland, and has the famous tourist > attraction of "John O'Groats". It is in the modern "Highland Region" but is > flat terrain and often thought of as north of the Highlands. The Islanders > just to the north of Caithness, in Orkney and Shetland do not really think of > themselves as Scots, and feel closer to Scandinavia. All these places are > therefore some considerable distance apart (in European terms, not US!). It > is a feature of Europe and Scandinavia that relatively short distances can > produce considerable changes in the perception of identity and position. > > I am not sure of the basis of the first records of Lairds as a family, but > the majority of references to Scots family names give the surname "Laird" as > "Berwick and Peebles in the 13th Century". The Highlands start just north of > Glasgow in the West from a line which stretches north east to just south of > Inverness in the east. I do not know of a "Castle Berwick" in the Highlands. > This does not mean that it does not, or did not exist. > > I will let you have some more information when I get home. And we keep > looking. > > Yours aye > > Iain > > ==== LAIRD Mailing List ==== > List archive search engines? See resource page at: > http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/l/a/LAIRD/