Hi Anna, I was glad to hear from you. I saw one of your surnames that got my attention that was Dukes. Several of my Cope family members married into the Dukes family. Who is your Duke family ? Maybe we can share notes. Write when you can. Wayne

Hi Ernie -- thanks for the information. Each bit helps. Wilma

Hi Wilma, Punched the wrong button twice. Sorry! I'm a Heltsley and related, way back, to some of those names. If you haven't yet, get a hold of Brenda Collier Doss's book, Heltsley/Helsley Family.It's a start. Most of those names are there, including info on Elizabeth Jane Elkins and Benjamin Dela Perry Drake. You can get the book at the Muhlenberg Co. Genealogy Library or buy it from A.B. Willhite, Russellville, Ky. Good luck, Ernie Heltsley

In 1870 these are the only 2 HARDISON G W HARDISON 30 KY DELANA 28 KY GEO W 9 JOHN W 7 ALEXANDER 5 AMANDA E 3 AUTHER 1 ===== J J HARDISON 54 KY SUSANNA 23 KY HARRIET 20 MARY H 17 JOHN W 11 ====== In 1880 it shows RICHARD B HARDISON 52 KY ELIZABETH 54 KY RICHARD C 22 JOHN C 20 NELLIE R 15 LAYFETT 11 ====== THE G W from 1870 is now listed in 1880 as GABE HARDISON 43 KY MARY 38 KY GEO 20 JOHN 18 ALEXANDER 16 AMANDA 13 AUTHOR 10 MARY 8 SPURLIN 6 MARION 1 LARA 6 NIECE IN 1900 the GABE from 1880 listed as GABEREL W HARDISON 63 JAN 1837 KY MARY L 60 WIFE FEB 1840 KY BIRD 15 SON CHARLY W 13 SON ----- My dream is of a place and a time where America will once again be seen as the last best hope of earth. -- Abraham Lincoln On Tue, 17 Sep 2002, Jonwil1@aol.com wrote... >Hello to anyone on the Muhlenberg List. I am Wilma Page and somewhat new to >genealogy. I have roots in Muhlenberg County with the names of Drake, >Elkins, Heltsley, Yonts/Yantz, Wells, Finley, Craft, King. At the moment I'm >trying to compile information on Elizabeth Jane Elkins who married Benjamn >Dela Perry Drake on March 25, 1851. I know that she is buried in the >Elkins-Drake cemetery on Hwy 171 in Muhlenberg County and that she most >likely died between 1920 and 1924. My grandmother told me this many years >ago, but I can find no record of her death anywhere. Actually I got started >at this when I was attempting to get correct birth and death dates so that I >might get proper grave markers for relatives in some of these old family >cemeteries. Benjamin died February 8, 1856, and Elizabeth may have remarried >W. W. Hardison in July 1864 although I have no evidence of this, just heard >it in passing. No one in the family ever seemed to know where Benjamin was >buried (possibly in Drakesboro) and they did not know why Elizabeth was not >buried with him. Any bit of information would be appreciated. And I would >be happy to share the small clues that I have developed so far. Obviously I >need to make a trip to Kentucky to do on-site research -- maybe next spring. >Thank you very much. > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Wilma, I noticed you're researching the Yonts families. I have an entire web site devoted to them at: www.nii.net/~yonts Or if you'd like, e-mail directly with any questions you have. Also I'd like to see where your Yontses fit into our family tree. Cheers, Dr. MacTavish E-mail: yonts@nii.net

Hello to anyone on the Muhlenberg List. I am Wilma Page and somewhat new to genealogy. I have roots in Muhlenberg County with the names of Drake, Elkins, Heltsley, Yonts/Yantz, Wells, Finley, Craft, King. At the moment I'm trying to compile information on Elizabeth Jane Elkins who married Benjamn Dela Perry Drake on March 25, 1851. I know that she is buried in the Elkins-Drake cemetery on Hwy 171 in Muhlenberg County and that she most likely died between 1920 and 1924. My grandmother told me this many years ago, but I can find no record of her death anywhere. Actually I got started at this when I was attempting to get correct birth and death dates so that I might get proper grave markers for relatives in some of these old family cemeteries. Benjamin died February 8, 1856, and Elizabeth may have remarried W. W. Hardison in July 1864 although I have no evidence of this, just heard it in passing. No one in the family ever seemed to know where Benjamin was buried (possibly in Drakesboro) and they did not know why Elizabeth was not buried with him. Any bit of information would be appreciated. And I would be happy to share the small clues that I have developed so far. Obviously I need to make a trip to Kentucky to do on-site research -- maybe next spring. Thank you very much.

Is there anyone out there that has run across or have researched the Davis family? Nathan Davis and his wife Mary Scott were last found in the census in 1860 in McLean Cty. They lived in Muhlenburg but after the county changes, they were in McLean County. Any help would really be appreciated. Jeanne jlinc12317@aol.com

SORRY, I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS ANY TURNERS IN MY LINEAGE. I WILL KEEP YOU IN MIND THROUGH MY SEARCH. THANKS FOR THE REPLY. ANNA ----- Original Message ----- From: Genie91954@wmconnect.com Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:38 PM To: KYMUHLEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [KYMUHLEN] Any male TURNER born in 1868 in Warren County Kentucky> died ? 1923 in ??? Ok I will take ANY male with the last name TURNER born in 1868 in Warren County Kentucky. He died in 1923, where I do not know. Send them to me. God Bless Pam ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

a.. My gggrandfather, Enos WEST, was born somewhere in Kentucky (don't know what county) in 1808 and died in McLean County in 1898. In 1837 he married Elizabeth ELLIS (b. 1810 in N.C.--father--Dennis Ellis) in Muhlenberg (now McLean Co.) Ky. b.. Enos WEST's father is my brick wall. According to census records, his father was born in Maryland and his mother in Pennsylvania, but that is as far as I have been able to go. c.. The first record of Enos is in in 1830 when he witnessed a land transaction on Green River purchased by Jesse EVERLY. There are a few connections with the EVERLY's who came to Kentucky from Harrison Co., Virginia. d.. In 1835 Enos witnessed a land transaction between Nathan West and John Bland on Cypress Creek in Muhlenberg (now McLean) Co. e.. There are two deeds of record in McLean Co. from William W. WEST and Benjamin WEST of Christian County to Enos WEST, but I have been unable to connect these WESTS' to Enos. f.. ANY HELP ON FINDING ENOS WESTS' FATHER, OR BROTHERS AND SISTERS WILL BE APPRECIATED.

Ok I will take ANY male with the last name TURNER born in 1868 in Warren County Kentucky. He died in 1923, where I do not know. Send them to me. God Bless Pam

Hi Lisa, I remember seeing all the names you mention in our Heltsley line. My late aunt, Maud Underwood had a good friend who may still be living around Drakesboro by the name of Casebier. On the difference between Heltsley/Helsley, my dad always assumed the names were the same. It was just, he said, that one side inserted the "t" because they were so religious they didn't want to say "hell." That's as good a reason as any. Fun aside, I don't think there's any question the two names have the same source and are the same. The big question is what name came before Helsley. I'm working on the German-Swiss idea that Brenda Collier Doss floated in her book. What do you think? Ernie

Hi Ernie, I'm Lisa Kinser, most likely a distant cousin... My GGGreat grandfather, Benjamin T. CASEBIER married Mary "Polly" HELTSLEY. And his brother, James, married Catherine HELSLEY. I always wondered if the names were the same or not. I would love to see more info on them, especially Mary. I have info on their children, but some of it is conflicting data. I'm also looking for the parents of Benjamin. Thanks, ~Lisa Williams Kinser~

Hi, I am Ernie Heltsley. Is this Johanna Fox. If so, I talked with you 2-3 years ago on telep. I've been doing my Heltsley/Helsley family book all this time. You mentioned Drake in the families. Is that the founding Drake family for Drakesboro that crops up a lot. I've assumed it but not yet checked it out. Thanks, Ernie

WAYNE, SO FAR, I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS THOSE NAMES IN MY ANCESTRAL TREE. I AM NEW TO THIS AND STARTED OUT BY TRYING TO FIND AN AUNT THAT MAY VERY POSSILBLY STILL BE LIVING & HER DESCENDANTS. SORRY TO SAY, BUT IT IS EASIER TO FIND PEOPLE THAT HAVE PASSED ON THAN ALIVE. I HAVE FOUND THAT A PERSON ENDS UP HAVING TO GO BACK IN THE GENERATIONS BEFORE THEY CAN GO FORWARDS. MY FAMILY TREE IS FROM THE McLEAN & MUHLENBURG COUNTIES IN KENTUCKY & SOME OF THEM ARE STILL IN THOSE AREAS. THE SURNAMES I HAVE COME ACROSS THAT SEEM TO BE IN MY FAMILY TREE ARE AS FOLLOWS: JACKSON, CONWAY, THOMPSON, DRAKE, NEWTON, BURTON, STOKES, DUKES, SHAKLETT, MARKWELL, MOORE & POSSIBLY GROSS, HIBBS & EVANS. THESE LAST THREE SURNAMES I JUST RAN ACROSS FROM ANOTHER FAMILY TREE THAT I AM LOOKING INTO AT THIS TIME. IF THESE SURNAMES LOOK FAMILIAR WRITE BACK WITH YOUR INFO ON THEM & MAYBE WE CAN MATCH SOMEWHERE IN OUR TREES. I WILL KEEP YOU IN MIND WITH THE INFO YOU HAVE GIVEN ME ALREADY & DURING MY SEARCH IF I COME ACROSS ANYTHING I WILL NOTIFY YOU. THANKS FOR THE REPLY & GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SEARCH. ANNA ----- Original Message ----- From: wayne langston Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 11:04 PM To: KYMUHLEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [KYMUHLEN] Waggoner and Cope family of Muhlenberg Co, Ky. Hi, I am researching William Cope b. 1796 Ky. d. before 1850 Graves Co, Ky. married Malinda V. Waggoner b. 1804 Ga. 12 Aug 1819 Muhlenberg Co, Ky. d. After 1860 Graves Co, Ky. Looking for descendants of this family. Any help appreciated. Wayne ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Are there any city directories for Greenville? Am looking for the name and location of a store owned by my GGrandfather,Hilan H. Adkins.It was a "general store", he owned for sure in mid to late 1930's. Thanks Kit (ACLIN, ADKINS, OATES, WILCOX)

Hi, I am researching William Cope b. 1796 Ky. d. before 1850 Graves Co, Ky. married Malinda V. Waggoner b. 1804 Ga. 12 Aug 1819 Muhlenberg Co, Ky. d. After 1860 Graves Co, Ky. Looking for descendants of this family. Any help appreciated. Wayne

BOY.....was that food for thought........:>).... What a great imagination....I loved it....:>).. Margaret

Fran Jan, unicorn@sun-spot.com One of my favorite restaurants to frequent features as décor a wide range of antiques (some of which I recognize, and some I do not), as well as a large collection of portraits (none of whom I recognize). Quite a mood this decor creates, and for someone of ripe imagination, perhaps too much mood. It never fails that when I visit this restaurant, my thoughts run rampant. And so I thought I might let you in on just what those thoughts are… *********************************************************************** Enough Rope and You Hang Yourself (from the Sunday Afternoon Rocking series) The old woman sniffed and pursed her lips, whispering loudly to the distinguished gentleman with the goatee next to her, “He is HANGING here because he deserves to be! That is why!” Dark beady eyes across the way suddenly stopped their perusal of the dining room and darted quickly and with purpose to focus on the old woman. She squirmed a bit and tugged at her bonnet. The subject of the woman’s mockery leaned forward with purpose, and fierce eyebrows quivered with the anger expressed in his deliberate and deadly voice. “Hush your mouth, you old fool! You would not be hanging around here either if anyone wanted you in his or her home! Emma, you know good and well you were NEVER allowed to grace a decent respectable home in your entire lifetime.” There was a high titter, and a hand abruptly dropped its hanky to fall out of reach. The skinny sallow faced woman gracing the far dark corners of the room clapped her hand over her thin lips to stifle its sound. The first “lady” (though apparently the other characters of this menagerie held that appraisal in doubt), stood up abruptly and curled her fingers tightly about the bottom of the frame that held her. Her knuckles gleamed like sharp deadly teeth in the gloom of the darkened room. “George Harold! You tell me what is worse! A lady of profession or a thief and a murderer??? At least I earned my living! You, George Harold Jones, stole yours…and then proceeded to make the matter worse. And if you ask me it is the devil’s due that you hung then, and hang now, and will hang for all of eternity!!!! What is more, had I had any children, I am sure I would have found a home with one of them, which you, George, did not! They even changed their name after your escapade did they not??? Didn’t claim to know you, and that you deserved as well! And as for YOU, Annie Louise, you have no right to sit over there in the corner listening in on everyone’s conversations and giggling. You know good and well you are keeping company with the rest of us misfits for a very good reason, and we all know what it is. Shall I tell them all what you did, Annie? Shall I now? Cut your OWN throat you did. So mean to your only daughter she could not bear to have you in her sight, and pitched you out with the garbage. You brought your fate upon yourself, where as I, on the other hand, was not loved or unwanted! I simply did not have children!” “My my!”, sneered George Harold, a nasty smirk upon his mustachioed face, “You doooo go on, my dear lady ‘of profession'. Since you think I am such a villain, perhaps I should just ply my own trade upon you. Maybe I could take that kerchief around you shoulders and simply squeeze it very tightly around your scrawny little neck. Eh, Emma?” Emma squirmed and yanked the kerchief off her shoulders. George grinned, enjoying her discomfort and the gasps of the shocked company about them. “Perhaps,” he continued with relish, “I could rip your head off…tear it off with purpose and let the pieces drift to the floor!” There was a collective gasp and a squeal from more than a few of the ladies. Emma sank out of sight leaving behind only the plush velvet chair she had sat in. George raised one shaggy eyebrow and glanced to his left. “After all, Edward, you would know all about missing body parts, wouldn’t you? A fit of temper on the part of your own nephew is the very reason you sit there with one arm and half your chest missing!” Edward blinked and glanced down at the missing half of his body. He tugged at his tie and sat up a bit straighter to make presentable what was left of him. Greatly enjoying an appreciative audience, George strained his neck and leaned forward to peer about the room. They were a motley crew, the lot of them. The sniveling child over there hiding behind a mother’s skirts…the mother herself cowering behind her bearded husband. They best keep their own thoughts silent, thought George. They had not much to brag about either. Sold to the highest bidder to pay taxes, they were. And Queen Mary over there, with her head tilted and her nose in the air, always refusing to take part in the nightly conversations, thinking she was too good for the rest of them. Well he knew Queen Mary’s story too, and knew she was so blasted ugly she had been relegated to rooms where no visitor would ever discover the family secret…an ugly grandmother. Not allowed to be seen, that one was. And he knew how she had been passed between first one relation and then the other, until each of them tired of keeping up the pretense of wanting the old hag, kinship or not, around. He turned his gaze to Philip, the distinguished gentleman to Emma’s side. Thus far, he had kept his own counsel. But then, that was exactly the reason he was a part of the gathering. His silence. So silent he was rarely, if ever, noticed, not then and not now. So silent no one knew who he was, not then and not now. Yup. Silent to the bone, pun intended. He was just about to describe in great detail, complete with all manner of colorful adjectives, other steps he could take to permanently silence the mouthy Emma. He was just about to warn other of the company that dared to poke fun of his not so recent demise, or make a pun of the fact that “once hung, always hung”. He was just about to describe with great relish what could happen if one of them found their way into the garbage disposal in the kitchen, or managed to find his or her way into the dishwasher. It occurred to him what a nasty situation could arise if one of them just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, namely Cook’s microwave. He was just about to set off such a stew of gasps and screams and squeals that undoubtedly the motion detector would be set off by the simple vibrations resounding from the walls…when the inevitable happened. “HUSH!” screamed Emma imperatively, hastily rising from her hiding place, and straightening the scarf about her neck, “They’re back!” Immediately twenty-five people resumed their places, their attitudes, their demeanors. Their faces straightened into dignified solemnity, and their poses resumed a rigid and most proper posture. Darkness disappeared from even Annie’s corner, as bright lights suddenly snapped on and glared overhead. There was a collective blink as they all adjusted to the change, but Lisa did not notice. Lisa swept through the dining room, thrusting a pile of remarkably fresh tablecloths toward the unremarkable Kenny. Indeed the only thing remarkable about Kenny was the fact that he often stopped in front of a portrait as he cleared away the dirty dishes, or dropped the clanking dirty silverware into his tray. And more than a few times, he had stolen a quick look about to see that no one was listening, and whispered to the portrait, “And who might you be? Where did you live? What is a nice girl like you doing hanging around a place like this?” (Emma particularly liked that young man!) Of course he never received an answer but it did not keep him from wondering. And this morning, despite the fact that his manager was far more interested in getting the restaurant opened than in dwelling on philosophical thoughts, Kenny let his wondering spill. “Ya ever wonder why it is these folks are in here?”, he asked, gesturing toward the walls. Lisa continued folding napkins into neat fancy little caps on table 12. “Some of them are quite ugly, aren’t they?” (George resisted an urge to glance toward “Queen Mary” and snicker). “But they do add a certain ambiance of the past to the place. People like the feel of an ‘old home’ when they come here. Draws customers.” Kenny checked the salt and peppershakers on table 10, taking care that each lid was on tight. Now and then some jokester would loosen them, and an unsuspecting patron would wind up with a plateful of salt, which never failed to cut into the tips, and consequently Kenny’s cut of the same. “No,” he said, shaking his head, “That is not what I mean…I mean wonder why they were not kept in their families? I mean, it seems most folks would be tickled to have portraits of their own ancestors! Just makes you wonder…that is all. How these folks got separated from their families.” Lisa reached for another napkin and checked her watch. “Maybe they did not get separated, maybe they got pitched out. Maybe they were so mean no one wanted them around.” Emma came near to chortling then, and took the risk of sending a triumphant glance toward Annie. Annie tossed her head indignantly and then froze, hoping desperately that her movement had not been detected. It had not. “Yeah,” replied Kenny, snapping open another snowy white tablecloth, “Maybe we have a horse thief or a murderer or something hanging around here!” Lisa, realizing they were well on schedule and would open without any delay, took the time to joke. She laughed, “Maybe we do, maybe we do. Kind of a give em enough rope and they hang themselves…for eternity!” Kenny hooted at the pun. Emma could not help it and burst into wild laughter. A titter here, a giggle there, and soon the whole room was laughing! A crash accompanied the chorus of laughter. Kenny and Lisa each dropped a napkin and stared at one another. “What on earth was THAT???” Kenny turned wildly in a circle as he surveyed the room, and then it dawned upon him. “LOOK!”, he exclaimed, pointing from wall to wall. On the face of every once stern dignified forgotten ancestor was a knowing smile, or a mischevious smile, sometimes a virtual grin. Emma's face was frozen in an absolute guffaw exposing the flaw she had tried so long to keep secret, that of missing teeth. Yes, all the portraits seemed suddenly quite merry. All except one, that is. George's space was empty. His frame rested at the foot of a claw footed table. Kenny reached for it and shuddered as he held it up. George was not happy. Kenny placed the portrait carefully back on the wall, taking care it was straight and noting that the glass had not broken. "Easy old boy," Kenny whispered, "You may be gone, but you aren't forgotten. We'll keep you hanging around." George’s normally dignified detached air was quite changed, more so even than the demeanors of his like company. George's countenance bore no smile, and far from that of a calmly collected middle aged man of the late 1800’s, was now drawn into a perpetual fierce scowl. They had gone and hung him again…for eternity. Copyright ©2002JanPhilpot ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (Note: Afternoon Rocking messages are meant to be passed on, meant to be shared...simply share as written without alterations...and in entirety. Thanks, jan) Sunday Afternoon Rocking columns are distributed weekly on the list Sunday Rocking. This is not a "reply to" list, and normally only one message per week will come across it, that being the column. To subscribe send email to Sundayrocking-subscribe@topica.com Comments about the content of these messages can be sent to unicorn@sun-spot.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In a message dated 8/25/02 11:00:49 AM, KYMUHLEN-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: << http://www.rootsweb.com/~kymuhlen/index.html >> Hi Pam, The page number you are looking for is stamped on the upper right hand side of the pages. It is NOT the original number on the upper left. When you open the first image in Muhlenberg the number in the upper right is 402. That's the one you are looking for. Subtract that number from the pg.# you are looking for (429) and then times that answer by 2. 429-402=27 x 2=54. Type 54 into the box and click on go to image. This should put you on your image. The page numbers actually cover a 2 page spread. If you are not on your correct page using this formula - just click back 1 page or forward 1 page and it should be there. ANYWAY - you need (in your case) image #55 for pg. 429 and image #153 for pg. 478. This formula should work for all the images that are in 2 page spreads. Hope this helps. Lona Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio Searcher Researching: LOSTUTTER, WILKEY/WHELCHEL, DREW, OVERTON

Margaret, My present address is 230 Burnam Court Apt 3, Richmond, Ky, 40475, I will gladly reimburse you the postage. email is dhark62488@aol.com. Thanks,Dot