Joe, I do have Troy's obituary and it just says when he was born, but not to whom he was born. I also have a copy of his delay-filed birth certificate which lists Betty Elam for his mother but there is no one listed in the spot for father. (He was born in 1896 and this certificate was filed in 1941). He was married twice, and the certificates have different names for BOTH parents, but I think they both referred to his cousin Charlie and his wife with whom he was living at the time of the 1900 census, and the copy of his death certificate lists purely fictional names as far as I can tell which I assume were supplied by his second wife. I think the fact that Troy was probably embarrassed by his upbringing caused all of these conflicting records. And I am quite sure that Troy knew who his father was and I believe the people in the area he lived knew as well. I've been working on this one on and off since the mid '70s, and although I've made tremendous progress I don't know if I'll be able to get any further with it (but I keep trying now and then!!). Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Greene <jdg2003@softhome.net> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] Troy ELAM Sharon, I was monitoring the related messages and when I found the info I sent you on Troy - I had noticed the place of burial in Wisconsin. Perhaps there is an obituary in the local Wisconsin area paper that mentions a father. Who knows? Also, I found a William Taylor Elam who was denoted as brother to Elizabeth. I came across this info when looking for details on a William Taylor Elam - who is related to my Elam line - (brother to Laura Belle Elam Manning). Good Hunting, Joe Greene ****************************** Sharon Warner wrote: > Thanks, Joe, for taking the time to pass this on! The ever-elusive father is > the one who'll eventually drive me crazy... > > Sharon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe Greene <jdg2003@softhome.net> > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] Troy ELAM > > Dear Sharon - In a Family Tree Maker Elam database that I imported from a > Genweb > file - the origins and original author of which I have no recollection ---- > I > found the following information: > > ********************************************************* > > Troy Elam, b. Feb. 8 1896 - Campton, Wolfe County, Ky > > Died - April 26, 1966 --- Buried - Rhinelander, Oneida County, WI. > > His mother is listed as Elizabeth Elam, b. April 23, 1866, of Wheelrim, > Morgan, > Ky > > Elizabeth's parents are listed as John Elam and Rebecca Coffee of Morgan Co. > > A sibling - a brother Bernie is also listed - no other info on him. > > No father listed. > > Hope this helps Sharon > > Regards - Joe Greene > > Elam/Manning/Holbrook of Morgan Co, and Green/Anderson/Gose of Magoffin Co. > > ******************************** > Sharon Warner wrote: > > > Dorothy, Joe and Joanne, > > > > I think Joe's explanation for Kaney ELAM sounds logical to me as I've > heard > > Troy's name connected with that area. I descend from Billy Cannon ELAM > > through Gilbert ELAM and Catherine COOLEY's son, John C. ELAM (husband of > > Rebecca COFFEE). John and Rebecca's daughter Elizabeth (Betty) ELAM was > > Troy's mother. Troy's daughter Geneva is my mother. > > > > I'm posting some of the information I've already sent to Joanne to the > list > > in hopes that someone might be able to add something to it... > > > > All my mother knows about her father's upbringing was that he didn't live > > with his mother and his mother was never married. All Troy's second wife > > would tell me after his death when I first started searching was "Grandpa > > (Troy) wouldn't like you digging around in his past." I believe he ran > away > > from whomever he was staying with at a fairly young age as he was > > mistreated - as in worked overly hard. > > > > I was able to piece together over the years that Troy's mother, Betty > ELAM, > > was never married, had seven children with five different men and she > never > > raised any of her children. An aunt has told me that at some point - maybe > > in the 1940s - Troy received a letter from his father from "out west > > someplace" which invited Troy and his family to move near him saying > "money > > and a job would be no object." Troy didn't want anything to do with him > > since his father hadn't wanted anything to do with him as a child. > > > > I don't know who Troy lived with as a child except for what I've found in > > census records: > > > > Wolfe County Kentucky 1900 census > > All were born in Kentucky. > > Mag. Dis./Lee City, Vol. 76, Ed. P2, Sheet 12, Line 31. > > 214-214 ELAM > > Charlie 26 Laborer (born 6/1874) > > Mary B 26 (born Dec 1873) > > William G 6/12 (born November 1899) > > Troy 4 Cousin (born February 1896) > > > > 1910 Morgan County, Kentucky census (Adele Precinct) Taken April 19 Roll > 492 > > Sheet 6 E.D. 167 Was located at Wheelrim Fork of Johnson Creek > > 98-99 ELEAM, Ben C. HH M W 67 In marriage #2 Married 32 years Ky Va > Va > > Farmer, Labor at home, Owned free > of > > mortgage, Could > > read, Could not write > > Emili wife F W 52 In marriage #1 Married 32 years 6 children born/5 > > children living > > Ky Ky Ky Could not read or write > > Grant son M W 18 Single Farm Labor at home (School since Sept. 1, > > 1909: Yes) > > Ky Ky Ky Could read and write Working own > > account > > Troy nephew M W 14 Single Farm Labor at home (School since Sept. 1, > 1909: > > Yes) > > Ky Ky Ky Could read and write Working own > > account > > > > One of Troy's half sisters gave the names of Betty's children and their > > fathers to another relative probably in the late 1980s or early '90s. The > > ones with full names I have been able to verify, so I believe that they > were > > who she said they were. I also believe that all of the children at the > very > > least knew of each other, and that most knew and kept up with each other. > I > > also believe that who the fathers were was no secret. The problem with > > Troy's father is that his half sister could only remember a last name for > > him - AMYX. Betty ELAM died in 1948. > > > > It seems like this whole situation must have been at least somewhat > > scandalous and that people would have talked about it, so I'm hoping > someone > > might know which AMYX this was. I have had a very promising lead which I > > followed up on, but either it was unknown to that person or they were > > unwilling to admit to it (if they were aware of it at all; if it was even > > the right family). > > > > Dorothy, thanks for the 1920 census record, I have seen it. In fact, I > think > > it may have been something I posted as I remember putting in my notes a > > question of whether or not the "D" was for disabled. Do you by any chance > > have any other photos with Troy/Kaney in them? That is the only pic I have > > of him as a child. > > > > I do have a lot of documentation on this line if anyone needs it. > > > > Hoping someone might have some suggestions on figuring out who Troy's > father > > was - or better yet, can just tell me! > > > > Sharon > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: dorothy shaver <shavq121@interaxs.net> > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:36 AM > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > Hello Sharon, > > > > > > Did your grandfather use a different first name? On the back of my > > picture > > > his name is listed as Kaney Elam. Who were his parents? > > > Yes John Sherman was the son of Daniel Elam and his wife was Amanda > > > Elizabeth Tyler. You have all of the kids right. Mary Jane was my > > > grandmother. I must be getting old because I knew all of them except > > Herman > > > and I believe he died young. Yeah Preston is George W's father. My > grand > > > parents were second cousins. George's mother was Candas Elam and she > was > > > the daughter of Samuel Elam and Saphrona Elam. Sam was the brother of > > > Daniel and they were the sons of Gilbert who married Catherine Cooley. > > > We also have some first cousins that married, check out Sam and > Saphrona. > > > His father was Gilbert and her father was Walter Walker and they were > the > > > sons of William Cannon Elam. > > > I can't tell my Aunt's that they are still upset with me because I told > > them > > > their parents were second cousins. What is past has already happened we > > > just have to accept it. Besides there was no one else to marry except > > > relatives. How do you fit into this mix? > > > You can email me direct at Shavq121@interaxs.net. I would like to share > > > info. > > > > > > Thanks Dorothy Shaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Sharon Warner <shwarner@voyager.net> > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:35 PM > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dorothy, > > > > > > > > I was the one who wanted to know who was in the picture with my > > > grandfather, > > > > Troy ELAM. I've had the picture for several years and haven't been > able > > to > > > > find out, so I was thrilled to have them identified. My copy just said > > > Troy > > > > ELAM on the back and 1911. Do you have any information at all about > > Troy? > > > He > > > > wasn't raised by his mother, and was in different households in the > 1900 > > > and > > > > 1910 censuses, so I'm not sure who he spent most of his growing up > years > > > > with. (He was married by 1920.) Most of his early life is a mystery to > > me > > > > and to my mother, his daughter. According to my records, Candas Elam > > CRASE > > > > was Troy's 1st cousin once removed; her father Samuel was Troy's great > > > uncle > > > > and Saphrona was his 1st cousin twice removed. > > > > > > > > Is the John Sherman ELAM you mention the one who was born 13 May 1865 > > (son > > > > of Daniel ELAM)? I have his wife as Manda Elizabeth, but had no last > > name > > > > for her. I have six children listed for them: Mary Jane, Minnie Lane, > > > > Beulah, Robert Wayne, Jewell and Herman. And is the Preston you > mention > > as > > > > the father of George Washington the same Preston CRASE as mentioned in > > the > > > > picture? Trying to tie up some loose ends... > > > > > > > > Thanks so much for taking the time to respond with their identities! > > > > > > > > Sharon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: dorothy shaver <shavq121@interaxs.net> > > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:46 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > > > > HELLO, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHO I AM WRITING TO BUT I HAVE A COPY OF > > > THIS > > > > > PICTURE AND I KNOW WHO THE OTHER FOLKS ARE. THE PICTURE WAS GIVEN > TO > > ME > > > > BY > > > > > MY MOTHER. > > > > > > > > > > THE OLDER COUPLE SITTING DOWN ARE PRESTON CRASE AND CANDAS ELAM > CRASE > > > > (THEY > > > > > ARE MY GREAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS. THE MAN STANDING NEXT TO TROY IS > > LOGAN > > > > > CRASE THEIR SON AND THE WOMAN IS THEIR DAUGHTER SAPHRONA CRASE > STACY. > > > THE > > > > > CHILD IS SAPHRONA'S DAUGHTER ETHEL STACY SHOCKLEY. > > > > > CANDAS IS THE DAUGHTER OF SAMUEL ELAM AND SAPHRONA ELAM. > > > > > I AM THE DAUGHTER OF CASSIE CRASE QUESNELL, HER FATHER WAS GEORGE > > > > WASHINGTON > > > > > CRASE AND MARY JANE ELAM. GEORGE WAS THE SON OF PRESTON AND MARY > JANE > > > WAS > > > > > THE DAUGHTER OF JOHN SHERMAN ELAM AND AMANDA TYLER. I WOULD LIKE TO > > > KNOW > > > > > MORE ABOUT THE TYLERS IF ANYONE HAS ANY INFO. > > > > > > > > > > HOPE THIS HELPS > > > > > > > > > > DOROTHY QUESNELL SHAVER > > > > > > > > > > SHAVQ121@INTERAXS.NET > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: <Jo209@aol.com> > > > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:18 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > > > That is great news! Can't wait to hear how you managed it.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I send you the info on Troy Elam -- seems I did. He is listed > > in > > > > 1910 > > > > > > census with Benjamim Emily and Grant... he is their nephew. There > > is > > > a > > > > > picture > > > > > > and they are trying to figure out who the people are... I am sure > I > > > sent > > > > > it > > > > > > but just in case > > > > > > > > > > > > <A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HREF="http://www.geocities.com/pezzullo03/ufp1.html">http://www.geocities.co > > > > > m/pezzullo03/ufp1.html</A> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You > > > > > > Joanne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > -- > ÿØÿà -- ÿØÿà