Bill, Until 1850, the census only listed the heads of the households. So these guys would have been the man of the house. Norma At 11:42 AM 8/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Norma, > >Thanks for the info. Can you tell me if any of those names were about 6 >years old? > >Bill >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Norma Adams" <njadams@cinci.rr.com> >To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:32 AM >Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] 1825 Census > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > The first federal census for Morgan Co. is 1830. The Adams men listed >were: > > Matthew Adams > > Larkin Adams > > Lewis Adams > > William Adams > > Jesse Adams > > Charles Adams > > Daniel Adams > > William Adams > > Andrew Adams > > Isaac Adams > > > > Norma > > At 10:06 AM 8/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > >Hello, I am researching Adams's of Morgan County circa 1825. Does >anyone > > >know where on the internet I could find the census for 1825? Or any >census > > >close to that era. > > > > > >Bill Adams > > > > > >Otto L Adams F > > >Johnny Adams G > > >Manuel Adams GG > > >John Adams GGG > > >Elisha (sp?) Adams GGGG (Born Morgan Co KY) > > >Wesyune (sp?) Adams GGGGGF Sally Wilson GGGGGM > > > > > > > > from - Middletown, Ohio > > Family Page: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/myfamilygenes > > Gentry Records Page: http://members.tripod.com/~nanny_4/index.html > > from - Middletown, Ohio Family Page: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/myfamilygenes Gentry Records Page: http://members.tripod.com/~nanny_4/index.html

Hi Bill, The first federal census for Morgan Co. is 1830. The Adams men listed were: Matthew Adams Larkin Adams Lewis Adams William Adams Jesse Adams Charles Adams Daniel Adams William Adams Andrew Adams Isaac Adams Norma At 10:06 AM 8/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, I am researching Adams's of Morgan County circa 1825. Does anyone >know where on the internet I could find the census for 1825? Or any census >close to that era. > >Bill Adams > >Otto L Adams F >Johnny Adams G >Manuel Adams GG >John Adams GGG >Elisha (sp?) Adams GGGG (Born Morgan Co KY) >Wesyune (sp?) Adams GGGGGF Sally Wilson GGGGGM from - Middletown, Ohio Family Page: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/myfamilygenes Gentry Records Page: http://members.tripod.com/~nanny_4/index.html

Norma, Thanks for the info. Can you tell me if any of those names were about 6 years old? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norma Adams" <njadams@cinci.rr.com> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] 1825 Census > > Hi Bill, > The first federal census for Morgan Co. is 1830. The Adams men listed were: > Matthew Adams > Larkin Adams > Lewis Adams > William Adams > Jesse Adams > Charles Adams > Daniel Adams > William Adams > Andrew Adams > Isaac Adams > > Norma > At 10:06 AM 8/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: > >Hello, I am researching Adams's of Morgan County circa 1825. Does anyone > >know where on the internet I could find the census for 1825? Or any census > >close to that era. > > > >Bill Adams > > > >Otto L Adams F > >Johnny Adams G > >Manuel Adams GG > >John Adams GGG > >Elisha (sp?) Adams GGGG (Born Morgan Co KY) > >Wesyune (sp?) Adams GGGGGF Sally Wilson GGGGGM > > > > from - Middletown, Ohio > Family Page: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/myfamilygenes > Gentry Records Page: http://members.tripod.com/~nanny_4/index.html >

Hello, I am researching Adams's of Morgan County circa 1825. Does anyone know where on the internet I could find the census for 1825? Or any census close to that era. Bill Adams Otto L Adams F Johnny Adams G Manuel Adams GG John Adams GGG Elisha (sp?) Adams GGGG (Born Morgan Co KY) Wesyune (sp?) Adams GGGGGF Sally Wilson GGGGGM

Can anyone tell me if Louella who was d/o Nancy Belle Hill and Brown and married to Williams, could have later married a Hamilton namely Samuel who was the son of Reuben and Mary Fraley Hamilton. Thanks Sharon

Hello Joe I am enjoying this site. I have a problem that I have been dealing with for quite some time. My great grandfather was brought to this country by a Catholic Orphanage from France. He eventually landed in Ky. I have no idea where to begin looking to see when he came over. I do know that it was in 1851. I am open for any ideas. Thanks Dorothy Shaver PS are you military? My husband was retired Air Force. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Armstrong <SgtMaj@zianet.com> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:13 PM Subject: [KYMORGAN] BORN OVERSEAS? CHECK THIS OUT > State Department Overseas Records: The State Department might be able to > provide reports of birth, marriage and death that occurred overseas. Go to > http://www.travel.state.gov and click on "Travel and Living Abroad." Then > click on "Birth, Death and Marriage Records." At the page titled "Birth, > Death and Marriage Records, " click on "Apply for a copy of a report issued > by an American embassy or consulate showing that a U.S. citizen was born, > married or died while abroad." That takes you to "Consular > Reports of Birth, Death, and Marriage on File with the Department of > State." There you will find the information you want, along with a form > that can be copied and pasted, and the address where you can mail > it. [Source: Armed Forces News 18 JUL 03] > > ************************************************************** This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway **************************************************************

State Department Overseas Records: The State Department might be able to provide reports of birth, marriage and death that occurred overseas. Go to http://www.travel.state.gov and click on "Travel and Living Abroad." Then click on "Birth, Death and Marriage Records." At the page titled "Birth, Death and Marriage Records, " click on "Apply for a copy of a report issued by an American embassy or consulate showing that a U.S. citizen was born, married or died while abroad." That takes you to "Consular Reports of Birth, Death, and Marriage on File with the Department of State." There you will find the information you want, along with a form that can be copied and pasted, and the address where you can mail it. [Source: Armed Forces News 18 JUL 03]

Not my Gambles if anyone is interested please mail me and I'll send it out or should I just sent it to the site now? Eleanor

Still not fixed Glenda. Denise Putting my name didn't help Glenda, it was still returned. <vanderson@access-one.com>: 198.247.160.6 failed after I sent the message. Remote host said: 554 Filtered out by Filter 0 because "Received" = "from wbrg-dialup-216-74-205-40.iland.net (HELO yourav9l904ire) (216.74.205.40)" ----- Original Message ----- From: "rwbrauer@iland" <rwbrauer@iland.net> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > Putting my name didn't help Glenda, it was still returned. > Maybe knowing what it said will help you figure it out. > <vanderson@access-one.com>: > 198.247.160.6 failed after I sent the message. > Remote host said: 554 Filtered out by Filter 0 because "Received" = "from > wbrg-dialup-216-74-205-63.iland.net (HELO yourav9l904ire) (216.74.205.63)" > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rwbrauer@iland" <rwbrauer@iland.net> > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:31 PM > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > > > > Glenda I tried to write you back, but my letter got returned. Twice. > This > > is what I wrote: > > > > Glenda, on the 1820 census in Floyd county, I found a George Maddox and a > > William Gilmore on the same page. I really feel good about this. So I > > think, I might be getting somewhere on my Maddox's. I didn't get to > finish > > Floyd, but I did get all through Bath county, and didn't find any Maddox's > > of any spelling variation. > > > > I don't know anything about Trumbo, but I think my family already went to > > MO, but maybe not all of them. Keep me in mind, and send me whatever you > > want to. Denise > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Glenda Anderson" <vanderson@access-one.com> > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:31 PM > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > > > > > > > This is your MADDOX line...Great! I can't help any more on James' MADDOX > > > ancestors--but do you have Mary Jane's TRUMBO line? > > > From "The Trumbo Family" by Conrad W. Feltner, it is: > > > 1. Andrius Trumbo b. 1680 m. Mary Magdelene Unknown; > > > 2. Hans Jacob Trumbo b. 1714 m. abt 1737 Mary Custer b. abt 1718, VA; > > > 3. Andrew Trumbo, Sr. b. Apr 22, 1743, in Augusta Co., VA, m. Apr 22, > 1773 > > , > > > prob. in the area that is now Moorefield Co., WVA, Margaret Katherine > > "Kate" > > > Harness b. May 16, 1748, d. Aug 6, 1792, in Bourbon, later Clark, later > > > Montgomery and then Bath Co.; > > > 4. George Trumbo b. Sep 29, 1769, on the South Fork of the South Branch > of > > > the Potomac in VA, near what is now Moorefield, WVA, m. Susannah Coffman > > Sep > > > 17, 1789, in Mercer Co., KY, Susannah b. abt 1774; > > > 5. John L. Trumbo b. abt 1792, KY, m. Sarah Manly Oct 12, 1828, in Bath > > Co., > > > KY; > > > 6. Mary Jane Trumbo b. June 27, 1841, m. James Maddox, d. Mar 25, 1896, > in > > > prob. Lewis Co., KY. > > > > > > I would welcome any MADDOX information you have. In connecting these > > TRUMBOs > > > and HARNESSes, I'm finding a lot of our old first KY families...Glenda > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Beverly Yackel" <yackel@monmouth.com> > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:29 AM > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > > > > > > > > > > This is "my MADDOX line"!!!!!! > > > > > > > > -- Beverly Yackel > > > > > > > > Glenda Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > > > Denise, I have this MADDOX family. The TRUMBOs were in the part of > > > Bourbon > > > > > which became Clark then Montgomery then Bath. Other county divisions > > > were > > > > > made and the descendants fanned out from these counties. I hope this > > > > > MADDOX/TRUMBO line is yours.. > > > > > === > > > > > Descendants of James Maddox > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > > Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/2003 > > > > > > > > > >

Putting my name didn't help Glenda, it was still returned. Maybe knowing what it said will help you figure it out. <vanderson@access-one.com>: 198.247.160.6 failed after I sent the message. Remote host said: 554 Filtered out by Filter 0 because "Received" = "from wbrg-dialup-216-74-205-63.iland.net (HELO yourav9l904ire) (216.74.205.63)" ----- Original Message ----- From: "rwbrauer@iland" <rwbrauer@iland.net> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > Glenda I tried to write you back, but my letter got returned. Twice. This > is what I wrote: > > Glenda, on the 1820 census in Floyd county, I found a George Maddox and a > William Gilmore on the same page. I really feel good about this. So I > think, I might be getting somewhere on my Maddox's. I didn't get to finish > Floyd, but I did get all through Bath county, and didn't find any Maddox's > of any spelling variation. > > I don't know anything about Trumbo, but I think my family already went to > MO, but maybe not all of them. Keep me in mind, and send me whatever you > want to. Denise > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Glenda Anderson" <vanderson@access-one.com> > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:31 PM > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > > > > This is your MADDOX line...Great! I can't help any more on James' MADDOX > > ancestors--but do you have Mary Jane's TRUMBO line? > > From "The Trumbo Family" by Conrad W. Feltner, it is: > > 1. Andrius Trumbo b. 1680 m. Mary Magdelene Unknown; > > 2. Hans Jacob Trumbo b. 1714 m. abt 1737 Mary Custer b. abt 1718, VA; > > 3. Andrew Trumbo, Sr. b. Apr 22, 1743, in Augusta Co., VA, m. Apr 22, 1773 > , > > prob. in the area that is now Moorefield Co., WVA, Margaret Katherine > "Kate" > > Harness b. May 16, 1748, d. Aug 6, 1792, in Bourbon, later Clark, later > > Montgomery and then Bath Co.; > > 4. George Trumbo b. Sep 29, 1769, on the South Fork of the South Branch of > > the Potomac in VA, near what is now Moorefield, WVA, m. Susannah Coffman > Sep > > 17, 1789, in Mercer Co., KY, Susannah b. abt 1774; > > 5. John L. Trumbo b. abt 1792, KY, m. Sarah Manly Oct 12, 1828, in Bath > Co., > > KY; > > 6. Mary Jane Trumbo b. June 27, 1841, m. James Maddox, d. Mar 25, 1896, in > > prob. Lewis Co., KY. > > > > I would welcome any MADDOX information you have. In connecting these > TRUMBOs > > and HARNESSes, I'm finding a lot of our old first KY families...Glenda > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Beverly Yackel" <yackel@monmouth.com> > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:29 AM > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > > > > > > > This is "my MADDOX line"!!!!!! > > > > > > -- Beverly Yackel > > > > > > Glenda Anderson wrote: > > > > > > > Denise, I have this MADDOX family. The TRUMBOs were in the part of > > Bourbon > > > > which became Clark then Montgomery then Bath. Other county divisions > > were > > > > made and the descendants fanned out from these counties. I hope this > > > > MADDOX/TRUMBO line is yours.. > > > > === > > > > Descendants of James Maddox > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/2003 > > > > >

Thanks to John H. from this mailing list he has helped to locate my GGGG Grandmother Eliza Warren age 17 on the 1850 census of Morgan County KY. I know that my GGGG Grandfather Elijah Adams was born in Morgan County KY as well. I am hoping that they grew up there and were married there. Does anyone know of family searchers for the Warren Family or Adams Families of Morgan County and also does anyone know of a marriage of Elijah Adams and Eliza Warren around 1850 through 1854? Also does anyone where I can look at newspapers from the early 1800's for Morgan county? thanks Bill Adams

Nothing new - but still aggravating. Denise what you received may just be a sly solicitation for "wipe mail". The tactic is a bit of a trick /scam. The person sending you the solicitation is probably not a legitimate subscriber - one who subscribed with good intentions. This sort of thing happens on practically all lists groups - the ones on Yahoo, MSN and others. It goes like this - the person subscribes to the discussion/list group - monitors a lot of mail - collects e-mail addresses and then sends out a solicitation - maybe even with a phony return e-mail address and using some sly trick. I belong to many Yahoo.com discussions / list groups - alternative construction materials and methods - "adobe brick", etc., And, guess what - we get the same kind of thing. It is very difficult for a list moderator to stop this sort of thing. OR - it is a over zealous KYMORGAN list member who just doesn't realize how obtrusive and aggravating his/her new "solution" is to other people. OR - this is a malicious message that may cause you to receive a virus for your efforts. I would just write this person off - block them with filters that you can put in your mail software. Filter capability is built into Outlook (for instance). Just set a filter to send mail from this person straight to the trash can. You'll never know the malicious mail came in. Just some suggestions - Joe Greene *********************** "rwbrauer@iland" wrote: > I received this in my box today. I don't think that people who subscribe to > a list should do this. We all receive junk mail, and this, in my opinion is > just as bad as junk mail. > > I received this message from jsiders@ameritech.net and I do not know why, as > I don't see any letter that I wrote them. I might have but, I don't > remember it. > > I will not do this, I have enough trouble getting hold of family and having > to research than to do this. Rootsweb Magazine, last month recommended if > you are a genealogists, and you have a program like this, you may just be > missing a vital message, because of this program. > Thanks, Denise in MO > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thank > you for sending me your email. I really want to receive it. > > In an effort to eliminate junk email, I am using Mail Wiper. Mail Wiper has > placed your message safely on hold. > > Please reply to this email and send it to me so I can add you to my eMail > address book and we will be able to communicate freely from now on. > > Thank you for your assistance. > > For 100% Junk free eMail please visit http://www.mailwiper.com > > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I received this in my box today. I don't think that people who subscribe to a list should do this. We all receive junk mail, and this, in my opinion is just as bad as junk mail. I received this message from jsiders@ameritech.net and I do not know why, as I don't see any letter that I wrote them. I might have but, I don't remember it. I will not do this, I have enough trouble getting hold of family and having to research than to do this. Rootsweb Magazine, last month recommended if you are a genealogists, and you have a program like this, you may just be missing a vital message, because of this program. Thanks, Denise in MO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thank you for sending me your email. I really want to receive it. In an effort to eliminate junk email, I am using Mail Wiper. Mail Wiper has placed your message safely on hold. Please reply to this email and send it to me so I can add you to my eMail address book and we will be able to communicate freely from now on. Thank you for your assistance. For 100% Junk free eMail please visit http://www.mailwiper.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glenda I tried to write you back, but my letter got returned. Twice. This is what I wrote: Glenda, on the 1820 census in Floyd county, I found a George Maddox and a William Gilmore on the same page. I really feel good about this. So I think, I might be getting somewhere on my Maddox's. I didn't get to finish Floyd, but I did get all through Bath county, and didn't find any Maddox's of any spelling variation. I don't know anything about Trumbo, but I think my family already went to MO, but maybe not all of them. Keep me in mind, and send me whatever you want to. Denise ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenda Anderson" <vanderson@access-one.com> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > This is your MADDOX line...Great! I can't help any more on James' MADDOX > ancestors--but do you have Mary Jane's TRUMBO line? > From "The Trumbo Family" by Conrad W. Feltner, it is: > 1. Andrius Trumbo b. 1680 m. Mary Magdelene Unknown; > 2. Hans Jacob Trumbo b. 1714 m. abt 1737 Mary Custer b. abt 1718, VA; > 3. Andrew Trumbo, Sr. b. Apr 22, 1743, in Augusta Co., VA, m. Apr 22, 1773 , > prob. in the area that is now Moorefield Co., WVA, Margaret Katherine "Kate" > Harness b. May 16, 1748, d. Aug 6, 1792, in Bourbon, later Clark, later > Montgomery and then Bath Co.; > 4. George Trumbo b. Sep 29, 1769, on the South Fork of the South Branch of > the Potomac in VA, near what is now Moorefield, WVA, m. Susannah Coffman Sep > 17, 1789, in Mercer Co., KY, Susannah b. abt 1774; > 5. John L. Trumbo b. abt 1792, KY, m. Sarah Manly Oct 12, 1828, in Bath Co., > KY; > 6. Mary Jane Trumbo b. June 27, 1841, m. James Maddox, d. Mar 25, 1896, in > prob. Lewis Co., KY. > > I would welcome any MADDOX information you have. In connecting these TRUMBOs > and HARNESSes, I'm finding a lot of our old first KY families...Glenda > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Beverly Yackel" <yackel@monmouth.com> > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO > > > > This is "my MADDOX line"!!!!!! > > > > -- Beverly Yackel > > > > Glenda Anderson wrote: > > > > > Denise, I have this MADDOX family. The TRUMBOs were in the part of > Bourbon > > > which became Clark then Montgomery then Bath. Other county divisions > were > > > made and the descendants fanned out from these counties. I hope this > > > MADDOX/TRUMBO line is yours.. > > > === > > > Descendants of James Maddox > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/2003 > >

Glenda, Yes, I have Mary Jane's TRUMBO ancestors. I also own the book by Conrad Feltner. I'm even "in the book". My sons were upset that they are not in the book. I told them, hey guys, I wasn't even married when the book was written. Do you have TRUMBO ancestors???

It has come down through the generations that I am related to the Trumbos and they do marry into the Allen families that my Allens married into. I believe Elizabeth Allen who m. John Alkire Trumbo may be the dau of John and Ann (Griffin) Allen m. 1794 in Clark Co., KY --and a sister of my 2G Daniel Williams Allen who m. Nancy Hughes; my Daniel Williams Allen was a brother of Richard Allen who m. Edy Williams, d/o Rev. Daniel and Violet (Crouch) Williams. My KY line is: 5Gs: Matthias and Hannah (Dixon) Yocum m. 1755, VA 4Gs: John and Sarah "Sallie" (Yocum) Stephens m. Sep 8, 1783, Lincoln Co., KY; 3Gs: James Enoch and Emily (Stephens) Pergram m. 1800 in Montgomery Co., KY; 2Gs: Daniel Williams and Narcissa J. (Pergram) Allen m. Nov 23, 1848 in Bath Co., KY--Daniel the s/o John and Ann (Griffin) Allen, m. June 18, 1794 in Clark Co., KY, and Ann the d/o Richard and Mary (Brown) Griffin....then on down to me. The Yocum/Harness/Trumbo/See/Dennis intermarriages are great in KY. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beverly Yackel" <yackel@monmouth.com> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] MADDOX & TRUMBO & HARNESS > Glenda, > > Yes, I have Mary Jane's TRUMBO ancestors. I also own the book by Conrad > Feltner. > I'm even "in the book". My sons were upset that they are not in the book. I > told them, hey guys, I wasn't even married when the book was written. > > Do you have TRUMBO ancestors??? > > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 7/24/2003

In a message dated 7/28/2003 1:53:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, shwarner@voyager.net writes: > I also have a copy of his delay-filed birth certificate which > lists Betty Elam for his mother but there is no one listed in the spot for > father. (He was born in 1896 and this certificate was filed in 1941). He was > married twice, and the certificates have different names for BOTH parents, > but I think they both referred to his cousin Charlie and his wife with whom > he was living at the time of the 1900 census, and the copy of his death > Sharon, Have you checked the court records to see if Elizabeth Elam charged anyone with the support of Troy Elam? Thank You Joanne

Joe, I do have Troy's obituary and it just says when he was born, but not to whom he was born. I also have a copy of his delay-filed birth certificate which lists Betty Elam for his mother but there is no one listed in the spot for father. (He was born in 1896 and this certificate was filed in 1941). He was married twice, and the certificates have different names for BOTH parents, but I think they both referred to his cousin Charlie and his wife with whom he was living at the time of the 1900 census, and the copy of his death certificate lists purely fictional names as far as I can tell which I assume were supplied by his second wife. I think the fact that Troy was probably embarrassed by his upbringing caused all of these conflicting records. And I am quite sure that Troy knew who his father was and I believe the people in the area he lived knew as well. I've been working on this one on and off since the mid '70s, and although I've made tremendous progress I don't know if I'll be able to get any further with it (but I keep trying now and then!!). Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Greene <jdg2003@softhome.net> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] Troy ELAM Sharon, I was monitoring the related messages and when I found the info I sent you on Troy - I had noticed the place of burial in Wisconsin. Perhaps there is an obituary in the local Wisconsin area paper that mentions a father. Who knows? Also, I found a William Taylor Elam who was denoted as brother to Elizabeth. I came across this info when looking for details on a William Taylor Elam - who is related to my Elam line - (brother to Laura Belle Elam Manning). Good Hunting, Joe Greene ****************************** Sharon Warner wrote: > Thanks, Joe, for taking the time to pass this on! The ever-elusive father is > the one who'll eventually drive me crazy... > > Sharon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe Greene <jdg2003@softhome.net> > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] Troy ELAM > > Dear Sharon - In a Family Tree Maker Elam database that I imported from a > Genweb > file - the origins and original author of which I have no recollection ---- > I > found the following information: > > ********************************************************* > > Troy Elam, b. Feb. 8 1896 - Campton, Wolfe County, Ky > > Died - April 26, 1966 --- Buried - Rhinelander, Oneida County, WI. > > His mother is listed as Elizabeth Elam, b. April 23, 1866, of Wheelrim, > Morgan, > Ky > > Elizabeth's parents are listed as John Elam and Rebecca Coffee of Morgan Co. > > A sibling - a brother Bernie is also listed - no other info on him. > > No father listed. > > Hope this helps Sharon > > Regards - Joe Greene > > Elam/Manning/Holbrook of Morgan Co, and Green/Anderson/Gose of Magoffin Co. > > ******************************** > Sharon Warner wrote: > > > Dorothy, Joe and Joanne, > > > > I think Joe's explanation for Kaney ELAM sounds logical to me as I've > heard > > Troy's name connected with that area. I descend from Billy Cannon ELAM > > through Gilbert ELAM and Catherine COOLEY's son, John C. ELAM (husband of > > Rebecca COFFEE). John and Rebecca's daughter Elizabeth (Betty) ELAM was > > Troy's mother. Troy's daughter Geneva is my mother. > > > > I'm posting some of the information I've already sent to Joanne to the > list > > in hopes that someone might be able to add something to it... > > > > All my mother knows about her father's upbringing was that he didn't live > > with his mother and his mother was never married. All Troy's second wife > > would tell me after his death when I first started searching was "Grandpa > > (Troy) wouldn't like you digging around in his past." I believe he ran > away > > from whomever he was staying with at a fairly young age as he was > > mistreated - as in worked overly hard. > > > > I was able to piece together over the years that Troy's mother, Betty > ELAM, > > was never married, had seven children with five different men and she > never > > raised any of her children. An aunt has told me that at some point - maybe > > in the 1940s - Troy received a letter from his father from "out west > > someplace" which invited Troy and his family to move near him saying > "money > > and a job would be no object." Troy didn't want anything to do with him > > since his father hadn't wanted anything to do with him as a child. > > > > I don't know who Troy lived with as a child except for what I've found in > > census records: > > > > Wolfe County Kentucky 1900 census > > All were born in Kentucky. > > Mag. Dis./Lee City, Vol. 76, Ed. P2, Sheet 12, Line 31. > > 214-214 ELAM > > Charlie 26 Laborer (born 6/1874) > > Mary B 26 (born Dec 1873) > > William G 6/12 (born November 1899) > > Troy 4 Cousin (born February 1896) > > > > 1910 Morgan County, Kentucky census (Adele Precinct) Taken April 19 Roll > 492 > > Sheet 6 E.D. 167 Was located at Wheelrim Fork of Johnson Creek > > 98-99 ELEAM, Ben C. HH M W 67 In marriage #2 Married 32 years Ky Va > Va > > Farmer, Labor at home, Owned free > of > > mortgage, Could > > read, Could not write > > Emili wife F W 52 In marriage #1 Married 32 years 6 children born/5 > > children living > > Ky Ky Ky Could not read or write > > Grant son M W 18 Single Farm Labor at home (School since Sept. 1, > > 1909: Yes) > > Ky Ky Ky Could read and write Working own > > account > > Troy nephew M W 14 Single Farm Labor at home (School since Sept. 1, > 1909: > > Yes) > > Ky Ky Ky Could read and write Working own > > account > > > > One of Troy's half sisters gave the names of Betty's children and their > > fathers to another relative probably in the late 1980s or early '90s. The > > ones with full names I have been able to verify, so I believe that they > were > > who she said they were. I also believe that all of the children at the > very > > least knew of each other, and that most knew and kept up with each other. > I > > also believe that who the fathers were was no secret. The problem with > > Troy's father is that his half sister could only remember a last name for > > him - AMYX. Betty ELAM died in 1948. > > > > It seems like this whole situation must have been at least somewhat > > scandalous and that people would have talked about it, so I'm hoping > someone > > might know which AMYX this was. I have had a very promising lead which I > > followed up on, but either it was unknown to that person or they were > > unwilling to admit to it (if they were aware of it at all; if it was even > > the right family). > > > > Dorothy, thanks for the 1920 census record, I have seen it. In fact, I > think > > it may have been something I posted as I remember putting in my notes a > > question of whether or not the "D" was for disabled. Do you by any chance > > have any other photos with Troy/Kaney in them? That is the only pic I have > > of him as a child. > > > > I do have a lot of documentation on this line if anyone needs it. > > > > Hoping someone might have some suggestions on figuring out who Troy's > father > > was - or better yet, can just tell me! > > > > Sharon > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: dorothy shaver <shavq121@interaxs.net> > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:36 AM > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > Hello Sharon, > > > > > > Did your grandfather use a different first name? On the back of my > > picture > > > his name is listed as Kaney Elam. Who were his parents? > > > Yes John Sherman was the son of Daniel Elam and his wife was Amanda > > > Elizabeth Tyler. You have all of the kids right. Mary Jane was my > > > grandmother. I must be getting old because I knew all of them except > > Herman > > > and I believe he died young. Yeah Preston is George W's father. My > grand > > > parents were second cousins. George's mother was Candas Elam and she > was > > > the daughter of Samuel Elam and Saphrona Elam. Sam was the brother of > > > Daniel and they were the sons of Gilbert who married Catherine Cooley. > > > We also have some first cousins that married, check out Sam and > Saphrona. > > > His father was Gilbert and her father was Walter Walker and they were > the > > > sons of William Cannon Elam. > > > I can't tell my Aunt's that they are still upset with me because I told > > them > > > their parents were second cousins. What is past has already happened we > > > just have to accept it. Besides there was no one else to marry except > > > relatives. How do you fit into this mix? > > > You can email me direct at Shavq121@interaxs.net. I would like to share > > > info. > > > > > > Thanks Dorothy Shaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Sharon Warner <shwarner@voyager.net> > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:35 PM > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dorothy, > > > > > > > > I was the one who wanted to know who was in the picture with my > > > grandfather, > > > > Troy ELAM. I've had the picture for several years and haven't been > able > > to > > > > find out, so I was thrilled to have them identified. My copy just said > > > Troy > > > > ELAM on the back and 1911. Do you have any information at all about > > Troy? > > > He > > > > wasn't raised by his mother, and was in different households in the > 1900 > > > and > > > > 1910 censuses, so I'm not sure who he spent most of his growing up > years > > > > with. (He was married by 1920.) Most of his early life is a mystery to > > me > > > > and to my mother, his daughter. According to my records, Candas Elam > > CRASE > > > > was Troy's 1st cousin once removed; her father Samuel was Troy's great > > > uncle > > > > and Saphrona was his 1st cousin twice removed. > > > > > > > > Is the John Sherman ELAM you mention the one who was born 13 May 1865 > > (son > > > > of Daniel ELAM)? I have his wife as Manda Elizabeth, but had no last > > name > > > > for her. I have six children listed for them: Mary Jane, Minnie Lane, > > > > Beulah, Robert Wayne, Jewell and Herman. And is the Preston you > mention > > as > > > > the father of George Washington the same Preston CRASE as mentioned in > > the > > > > picture? Trying to tie up some loose ends... > > > > > > > > Thanks so much for taking the time to respond with their identities! > > > > > > > > Sharon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: dorothy shaver <shavq121@interaxs.net> > > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:46 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > > > > HELLO, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHO I AM WRITING TO BUT I HAVE A COPY OF > > > THIS > > > > > PICTURE AND I KNOW WHO THE OTHER FOLKS ARE. THE PICTURE WAS GIVEN > TO > > ME > > > > BY > > > > > MY MOTHER. > > > > > > > > > > THE OLDER COUPLE SITTING DOWN ARE PRESTON CRASE AND CANDAS ELAM > CRASE > > > > (THEY > > > > > ARE MY GREAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS. THE MAN STANDING NEXT TO TROY IS > > LOGAN > > > > > CRASE THEIR SON AND THE WOMAN IS THEIR DAUGHTER SAPHRONA CRASE > STACY. > > > THE > > > > > CHILD IS SAPHRONA'S DAUGHTER ETHEL STACY SHOCKLEY. > > > > > CANDAS IS THE DAUGHTER OF SAMUEL ELAM AND SAPHRONA ELAM. > > > > > I AM THE DAUGHTER OF CASSIE CRASE QUESNELL, HER FATHER WAS GEORGE > > > > WASHINGTON > > > > > CRASE AND MARY JANE ELAM. GEORGE WAS THE SON OF PRESTON AND MARY > JANE > > > WAS > > > > > THE DAUGHTER OF JOHN SHERMAN ELAM AND AMANDA TYLER. I WOULD LIKE TO > > > KNOW > > > > > MORE ABOUT THE TYLERS IF ANYONE HAS ANY INFO. > > > > > > > > > > HOPE THIS HELPS > > > > > > > > > > DOROTHY QUESNELL SHAVER > > > > > > > > > > SHAVQ121@INTERAXS.NET > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: <Jo209@aol.com> > > > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:18 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > > > That is great news! Can't wait to hear how you managed it.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I send you the info on Troy Elam -- seems I did. He is listed > > in > > > > 1910 > > > > > > census with Benjamim Emily and Grant... he is their nephew. There > > is > > > a > > > > > picture > > > > > > and they are trying to figure out who the people are... I am sure > I > > > sent > > > > > it > > > > > > but just in case > > > > > > > > > > > > <A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HREF="http://www.geocities.com/pezzullo03/ufp1.html">http://www.geocities.co > > > > > m/pezzullo03/ufp1.html</A> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You > > > > > > Joanne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > -- > ÿØÿà -- ÿØÿà

Thanks, Joe, for taking the time to pass this on! The ever-elusive father is the one who'll eventually drive me crazy... Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Greene <jdg2003@softhome.net> To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] Troy ELAM Dear Sharon - In a Family Tree Maker Elam database that I imported from a Genweb file - the origins and original author of which I have no recollection ---- I found the following information: ********************************************************* Troy Elam, b. Feb. 8 1896 - Campton, Wolfe County, Ky Died - April 26, 1966 --- Buried - Rhinelander, Oneida County, WI. His mother is listed as Elizabeth Elam, b. April 23, 1866, of Wheelrim, Morgan, Ky Elizabeth's parents are listed as John Elam and Rebecca Coffee of Morgan Co. A sibling - a brother Bernie is also listed - no other info on him. No father listed. Hope this helps Sharon Regards - Joe Greene Elam/Manning/Holbrook of Morgan Co, and Green/Anderson/Gose of Magoffin Co. ******************************** Sharon Warner wrote: > Dorothy, Joe and Joanne, > > I think Joe's explanation for Kaney ELAM sounds logical to me as I've heard > Troy's name connected with that area. I descend from Billy Cannon ELAM > through Gilbert ELAM and Catherine COOLEY's son, John C. ELAM (husband of > Rebecca COFFEE). John and Rebecca's daughter Elizabeth (Betty) ELAM was > Troy's mother. Troy's daughter Geneva is my mother. > > I'm posting some of the information I've already sent to Joanne to the list > in hopes that someone might be able to add something to it... > > All my mother knows about her father's upbringing was that he didn't live > with his mother and his mother was never married. All Troy's second wife > would tell me after his death when I first started searching was "Grandpa > (Troy) wouldn't like you digging around in his past." I believe he ran away > from whomever he was staying with at a fairly young age as he was > mistreated - as in worked overly hard. > > I was able to piece together over the years that Troy's mother, Betty ELAM, > was never married, had seven children with five different men and she never > raised any of her children. An aunt has told me that at some point - maybe > in the 1940s - Troy received a letter from his father from "out west > someplace" which invited Troy and his family to move near him saying "money > and a job would be no object." Troy didn't want anything to do with him > since his father hadn't wanted anything to do with him as a child. > > I don't know who Troy lived with as a child except for what I've found in > census records: > > Wolfe County Kentucky 1900 census > All were born in Kentucky. > Mag. Dis./Lee City, Vol. 76, Ed. P2, Sheet 12, Line 31. > 214-214 ELAM > Charlie 26 Laborer (born 6/1874) > Mary B 26 (born Dec 1873) > William G 6/12 (born November 1899) > Troy 4 Cousin (born February 1896) > > 1910 Morgan County, Kentucky census (Adele Precinct) Taken April 19 Roll 492 > Sheet 6 E.D. 167 Was located at Wheelrim Fork of Johnson Creek > 98-99 ELEAM, Ben C. HH M W 67 In marriage #2 Married 32 years Ky Va Va > Farmer, Labor at home, Owned free of > mortgage, Could > read, Could not write > Emili wife F W 52 In marriage #1 Married 32 years 6 children born/5 > children living > Ky Ky Ky Could not read or write > Grant son M W 18 Single Farm Labor at home (School since Sept. 1, > 1909: Yes) > Ky Ky Ky Could read and write Working own > account > Troy nephew M W 14 Single Farm Labor at home (School since Sept. 1, 1909: > Yes) > Ky Ky Ky Could read and write Working own > account > > One of Troy's half sisters gave the names of Betty's children and their > fathers to another relative probably in the late 1980s or early '90s. The > ones with full names I have been able to verify, so I believe that they were > who she said they were. I also believe that all of the children at the very > least knew of each other, and that most knew and kept up with each other. I > also believe that who the fathers were was no secret. The problem with > Troy's father is that his half sister could only remember a last name for > him - AMYX. Betty ELAM died in 1948. > > It seems like this whole situation must have been at least somewhat > scandalous and that people would have talked about it, so I'm hoping someone > might know which AMYX this was. I have had a very promising lead which I > followed up on, but either it was unknown to that person or they were > unwilling to admit to it (if they were aware of it at all; if it was even > the right family). > > Dorothy, thanks for the 1920 census record, I have seen it. In fact, I think > it may have been something I posted as I remember putting in my notes a > question of whether or not the "D" was for disabled. Do you by any chance > have any other photos with Troy/Kaney in them? That is the only pic I have > of him as a child. > > I do have a lot of documentation on this line if anyone needs it. > > Hoping someone might have some suggestions on figuring out who Troy's father > was - or better yet, can just tell me! > > Sharon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dorothy shaver <shavq121@interaxs.net> > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > Hello Sharon, > > > > Did your grandfather use a different first name? On the back of my > picture > > his name is listed as Kaney Elam. Who were his parents? > > Yes John Sherman was the son of Daniel Elam and his wife was Amanda > > Elizabeth Tyler. You have all of the kids right. Mary Jane was my > > grandmother. I must be getting old because I knew all of them except > Herman > > and I believe he died young. Yeah Preston is George W's father. My grand > > parents were second cousins. George's mother was Candas Elam and she was > > the daughter of Samuel Elam and Saphrona Elam. Sam was the brother of > > Daniel and they were the sons of Gilbert who married Catherine Cooley. > > We also have some first cousins that married, check out Sam and Saphrona. > > His father was Gilbert and her father was Walter Walker and they were the > > sons of William Cannon Elam. > > I can't tell my Aunt's that they are still upset with me because I told > them > > their parents were second cousins. What is past has already happened we > > just have to accept it. Besides there was no one else to marry except > > relatives. How do you fit into this mix? > > You can email me direct at Shavq121@interaxs.net. I would like to share > > info. > > > > Thanks Dorothy Shaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Sharon Warner <shwarner@voyager.net> > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > Hi Dorothy, > > > > > > I was the one who wanted to know who was in the picture with my > > grandfather, > > > Troy ELAM. I've had the picture for several years and haven't been able > to > > > find out, so I was thrilled to have them identified. My copy just said > > Troy > > > ELAM on the back and 1911. Do you have any information at all about > Troy? > > He > > > wasn't raised by his mother, and was in different households in the 1900 > > and > > > 1910 censuses, so I'm not sure who he spent most of his growing up years > > > with. (He was married by 1920.) Most of his early life is a mystery to > me > > > and to my mother, his daughter. According to my records, Candas Elam > CRASE > > > was Troy's 1st cousin once removed; her father Samuel was Troy's great > > uncle > > > and Saphrona was his 1st cousin twice removed. > > > > > > Is the John Sherman ELAM you mention the one who was born 13 May 1865 > (son > > > of Daniel ELAM)? I have his wife as Manda Elizabeth, but had no last > name > > > for her. I have six children listed for them: Mary Jane, Minnie Lane, > > > Beulah, Robert Wayne, Jewell and Herman. And is the Preston you mention > as > > > the father of George Washington the same Preston CRASE as mentioned in > the > > > picture? Trying to tie up some loose ends... > > > > > > Thanks so much for taking the time to respond with their identities! > > > > > > Sharon > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: dorothy shaver <shavq121@interaxs.net> > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:46 PM > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > HELLO, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHO I AM WRITING TO BUT I HAVE A COPY OF > > THIS > > > > PICTURE AND I KNOW WHO THE OTHER FOLKS ARE. THE PICTURE WAS GIVEN TO > ME > > > BY > > > > MY MOTHER. > > > > > > > > THE OLDER COUPLE SITTING DOWN ARE PRESTON CRASE AND CANDAS ELAM CRASE > > > (THEY > > > > ARE MY GREAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS. THE MAN STANDING NEXT TO TROY IS > LOGAN > > > > CRASE THEIR SON AND THE WOMAN IS THEIR DAUGHTER SAPHRONA CRASE STACY. > > THE > > > > CHILD IS SAPHRONA'S DAUGHTER ETHEL STACY SHOCKLEY. > > > > CANDAS IS THE DAUGHTER OF SAMUEL ELAM AND SAPHRONA ELAM. > > > > I AM THE DAUGHTER OF CASSIE CRASE QUESNELL, HER FATHER WAS GEORGE > > > WASHINGTON > > > > CRASE AND MARY JANE ELAM. GEORGE WAS THE SON OF PRESTON AND MARY JANE > > WAS > > > > THE DAUGHTER OF JOHN SHERMAN ELAM AND AMANDA TYLER. I WOULD LIKE TO > > KNOW > > > > MORE ABOUT THE TYLERS IF ANYONE HAS ANY INFO. > > > > > > > > HOPE THIS HELPS > > > > > > > > DOROTHY QUESNELL SHAVER > > > > > > > > SHAVQ121@INTERAXS.NET > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <Jo209@aol.com> > > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:18 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > That is great news! Can't wait to hear how you managed it.... > > > > > > > > > > Did I send you the info on Troy Elam -- seems I did. He is listed > in > > > 1910 > > > > > census with Benjamim Emily and Grant... he is their nephew. There > is > > a > > > > picture > > > > > and they are trying to figure out who the people are... I am sure I > > sent > > > > it > > > > > but just in case > > > > > > > > > > <A > > > > > > > > > > HREF="http://www.geocities.com/pezzullo03/ufp1.html">http://www.geocities.co > > > > m/pezzullo03/ufp1.html</A> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You > > > > > Joanne > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > -- ÿØÿà

Sharon, I was monitoring the related messages and when I found the info I sent you on Troy - I had noticed the place of burial in Wisconsin. Perhaps there is an obituary in the local Wisconsin area paper that mentions a father. Who knows? Also, I found a William Taylor Elam who was denoted as brother to Elizabeth. I came across this info when looking for details on a William Taylor Elam - who is related to my Elam line - (brother to Laura Belle Elam Manning). Good Hunting, Joe Greene ****************************** Sharon Warner wrote: > Thanks, Joe, for taking the time to pass this on! The ever-elusive father is > the one who'll eventually drive me crazy... > > Sharon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joe Greene <jdg2003@softhome.net> > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:25 PM > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] Troy ELAM > > Dear Sharon - In a Family Tree Maker Elam database that I imported from a > Genweb > file - the origins and original author of which I have no recollection ---- > I > found the following information: > > ********************************************************* > > Troy Elam, b. Feb. 8 1896 - Campton, Wolfe County, Ky > > Died - April 26, 1966 --- Buried - Rhinelander, Oneida County, WI. > > His mother is listed as Elizabeth Elam, b. April 23, 1866, of Wheelrim, > Morgan, > Ky > > Elizabeth's parents are listed as John Elam and Rebecca Coffee of Morgan Co. > > A sibling - a brother Bernie is also listed - no other info on him. > > No father listed. > > Hope this helps Sharon > > Regards - Joe Greene > > Elam/Manning/Holbrook of Morgan Co, and Green/Anderson/Gose of Magoffin Co. > > ******************************** > Sharon Warner wrote: > > > Dorothy, Joe and Joanne, > > > > I think Joe's explanation for Kaney ELAM sounds logical to me as I've > heard > > Troy's name connected with that area. I descend from Billy Cannon ELAM > > through Gilbert ELAM and Catherine COOLEY's son, John C. ELAM (husband of > > Rebecca COFFEE). John and Rebecca's daughter Elizabeth (Betty) ELAM was > > Troy's mother. Troy's daughter Geneva is my mother. > > > > I'm posting some of the information I've already sent to Joanne to the > list > > in hopes that someone might be able to add something to it... > > > > All my mother knows about her father's upbringing was that he didn't live > > with his mother and his mother was never married. All Troy's second wife > > would tell me after his death when I first started searching was "Grandpa > > (Troy) wouldn't like you digging around in his past." I believe he ran > away > > from whomever he was staying with at a fairly young age as he was > > mistreated - as in worked overly hard. > > > > I was able to piece together over the years that Troy's mother, Betty > ELAM, > > was never married, had seven children with five different men and she > never > > raised any of her children. An aunt has told me that at some point - maybe > > in the 1940s - Troy received a letter from his father from "out west > > someplace" which invited Troy and his family to move near him saying > "money > > and a job would be no object." Troy didn't want anything to do with him > > since his father hadn't wanted anything to do with him as a child. > > > > I don't know who Troy lived with as a child except for what I've found in > > census records: > > > > Wolfe County Kentucky 1900 census > > All were born in Kentucky. > > Mag. Dis./Lee City, Vol. 76, Ed. P2, Sheet 12, Line 31. > > 214-214 ELAM > > Charlie 26 Laborer (born 6/1874) > > Mary B 26 (born Dec 1873) > > William G 6/12 (born November 1899) > > Troy 4 Cousin (born February 1896) > > > > 1910 Morgan County, Kentucky census (Adele Precinct) Taken April 19 Roll > 492 > > Sheet 6 E.D. 167 Was located at Wheelrim Fork of Johnson Creek > > 98-99 ELEAM, Ben C. HH M W 67 In marriage #2 Married 32 years Ky Va > Va > > Farmer, Labor at home, Owned free > of > > mortgage, Could > > read, Could not write > > Emili wife F W 52 In marriage #1 Married 32 years 6 children born/5 > > children living > > Ky Ky Ky Could not read or write > > Grant son M W 18 Single Farm Labor at home (School since Sept. 1, > > 1909: Yes) > > Ky Ky Ky Could read and write Working own > > account > > Troy nephew M W 14 Single Farm Labor at home (School since Sept. 1, > 1909: > > Yes) > > Ky Ky Ky Could read and write Working own > > account > > > > One of Troy's half sisters gave the names of Betty's children and their > > fathers to another relative probably in the late 1980s or early '90s. The > > ones with full names I have been able to verify, so I believe that they > were > > who she said they were. I also believe that all of the children at the > very > > least knew of each other, and that most knew and kept up with each other. > I > > also believe that who the fathers were was no secret. The problem with > > Troy's father is that his half sister could only remember a last name for > > him - AMYX. Betty ELAM died in 1948. > > > > It seems like this whole situation must have been at least somewhat > > scandalous and that people would have talked about it, so I'm hoping > someone > > might know which AMYX this was. I have had a very promising lead which I > > followed up on, but either it was unknown to that person or they were > > unwilling to admit to it (if they were aware of it at all; if it was even > > the right family). > > > > Dorothy, thanks for the 1920 census record, I have seen it. In fact, I > think > > it may have been something I posted as I remember putting in my notes a > > question of whether or not the "D" was for disabled. Do you by any chance > > have any other photos with Troy/Kaney in them? That is the only pic I have > > of him as a child. > > > > I do have a lot of documentation on this line if anyone needs it. > > > > Hoping someone might have some suggestions on figuring out who Troy's > father > > was - or better yet, can just tell me! > > > > Sharon > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: dorothy shaver <shavq121@interaxs.net> > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:36 AM > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > Hello Sharon, > > > > > > Did your grandfather use a different first name? On the back of my > > picture > > > his name is listed as Kaney Elam. Who were his parents? > > > Yes John Sherman was the son of Daniel Elam and his wife was Amanda > > > Elizabeth Tyler. You have all of the kids right. Mary Jane was my > > > grandmother. I must be getting old because I knew all of them except > > Herman > > > and I believe he died young. Yeah Preston is George W's father. My > grand > > > parents were second cousins. George's mother was Candas Elam and she > was > > > the daughter of Samuel Elam and Saphrona Elam. Sam was the brother of > > > Daniel and they were the sons of Gilbert who married Catherine Cooley. > > > We also have some first cousins that married, check out Sam and > Saphrona. > > > His father was Gilbert and her father was Walter Walker and they were > the > > > sons of William Cannon Elam. > > > I can't tell my Aunt's that they are still upset with me because I told > > them > > > their parents were second cousins. What is past has already happened we > > > just have to accept it. Besides there was no one else to marry except > > > relatives. How do you fit into this mix? > > > You can email me direct at Shavq121@interaxs.net. I would like to share > > > info. > > > > > > Thanks Dorothy Shaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Sharon Warner <shwarner@voyager.net> > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 10:35 PM > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dorothy, > > > > > > > > I was the one who wanted to know who was in the picture with my > > > grandfather, > > > > Troy ELAM. I've had the picture for several years and haven't been > able > > to > > > > find out, so I was thrilled to have them identified. My copy just said > > > Troy > > > > ELAM on the back and 1911. Do you have any information at all about > > Troy? > > > He > > > > wasn't raised by his mother, and was in different households in the > 1900 > > > and > > > > 1910 censuses, so I'm not sure who he spent most of his growing up > years > > > > with. (He was married by 1920.) Most of his early life is a mystery to > > me > > > > and to my mother, his daughter. According to my records, Candas Elam > > CRASE > > > > was Troy's 1st cousin once removed; her father Samuel was Troy's great > > > uncle > > > > and Saphrona was his 1st cousin twice removed. > > > > > > > > Is the John Sherman ELAM you mention the one who was born 13 May 1865 > > (son > > > > of Daniel ELAM)? I have his wife as Manda Elizabeth, but had no last > > name > > > > for her. I have six children listed for them: Mary Jane, Minnie Lane, > > > > Beulah, Robert Wayne, Jewell and Herman. And is the Preston you > mention > > as > > > > the father of George Washington the same Preston CRASE as mentioned in > > the > > > > picture? Trying to tie up some loose ends... > > > > > > > > Thanks so much for taking the time to respond with their identities! > > > > > > > > Sharon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: dorothy shaver <shavq121@interaxs.net> > > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 8:46 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > > > > HELLO, I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHO I AM WRITING TO BUT I HAVE A COPY OF > > > THIS > > > > > PICTURE AND I KNOW WHO THE OTHER FOLKS ARE. THE PICTURE WAS GIVEN > TO > > ME > > > > BY > > > > > MY MOTHER. > > > > > > > > > > THE OLDER COUPLE SITTING DOWN ARE PRESTON CRASE AND CANDAS ELAM > CRASE > > > > (THEY > > > > > ARE MY GREAT GREAT GRANDPARENTS. THE MAN STANDING NEXT TO TROY IS > > LOGAN > > > > > CRASE THEIR SON AND THE WOMAN IS THEIR DAUGHTER SAPHRONA CRASE > STACY. > > > THE > > > > > CHILD IS SAPHRONA'S DAUGHTER ETHEL STACY SHOCKLEY. > > > > > CANDAS IS THE DAUGHTER OF SAMUEL ELAM AND SAPHRONA ELAM. > > > > > I AM THE DAUGHTER OF CASSIE CRASE QUESNELL, HER FATHER WAS GEORGE > > > > WASHINGTON > > > > > CRASE AND MARY JANE ELAM. GEORGE WAS THE SON OF PRESTON AND MARY > JANE > > > WAS > > > > > THE DAUGHTER OF JOHN SHERMAN ELAM AND AMANDA TYLER. I WOULD LIKE TO > > > KNOW > > > > > MORE ABOUT THE TYLERS IF ANYONE HAS ANY INFO. > > > > > > > > > > HOPE THIS HELPS > > > > > > > > > > DOROTHY QUESNELL SHAVER > > > > > > > > > > SHAVQ121@INTERAXS.NET > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: <Jo209@aol.com> > > > > > To: <KYMORGAN-L@rootsweb.com> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:18 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [KYMORGAN] GIBSON MANNING ELAM HAVENS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > > > That is great news! Can't wait to hear how you managed it.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Did I send you the info on Troy Elam -- seems I did. He is listed > > in > > > > 1910 > > > > > > census with Benjamim Emily and Grant... he is their nephew. There > > is > > > a > > > > > picture > > > > > > and they are trying to figure out who the people are... I am sure > I > > > sent > > > > > it > > > > > > but just in case > > > > > > > > > > > > <A > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HREF="http://www.geocities.com/pezzullo03/ufp1.html">http://www.geocities.co > > > > > m/pezzullo03/ufp1.html</A> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank You > > > > > > Joanne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > This message was scanned by the Avast Anti-Virus Gateway > > > > > > ************************************************************** > > > > > > > > -- > ÿØÿà -- ÿØÿà