Hello to all! I have only briefly scanned this Naming Thing, though I will look at it in more detail later. But I thought it would be an appropriate place for this anticdote told to me by my Grandmother. Evidently, back in the days when people had such huge families they ran out of ideas for names. My granny had a cousin who was born at home. When the doctor asked her name, the parents said they hadn't decided yet. Well the doctor picked the name "Mary" and put it on her birth certificate. In the meantime, the parents decided that "Estelle" was a pretty name and she was known by that. It was only when she went to draw her social security, that she found out her birth certificate was listed in a different name. Imagine her surprise. In another instance, a baby boy was born. The harried father was asked what the name should be and the only name he could think of was the name of the then current president, Calvin Coolidge. Fortunatelyl, Calvin lived to be a very old man. <VBG> It was evidently not unheard of for doctors to just put any old name on the certificate. So it could be necessary in some cases to look for the names of the parents and the correct birthdate. Marsha

If it is allowable, may I share a personal experience with you ? My father was the youngest of 8 children, and they were all given the same name combinations of their parent's families; and in turn, repeated the same patterns with their children... except for my Dad. None of my 7 brothers and sisters were named"after" ANY one in either of my parent's families; nor were any of us given names that could be shortened or nicknamed. Anyone tracing our family would find no clues to naming patterns. I was the youngest, and grew up with the rumor that I named myself. :-) It seems that my older siblings all wanted a role in naming me, and of course 7 youngsters couldn't agree, so I went unnamed for the first year (or more) of my life. When I was teased about it, my philosophic mother would appease me by saying that I was "so special" that they were "choosy" about naming me.. and I was naive enough to beleive her. Of course, my siblings would try to convince me that my birth was so uneventful, and unwelcomed, that they just didn't bother with naming me. ( Wouldn't the modern psycholigists have a field day with that one???? I would grow up with (a) an inflated ego, (b) with an inferiority complex (c) psychosis, ad nauseam! They would be disappointed to know that we were, and are, a very close knit family. ) When it came time for me to apply for SS, of course I had to produce my birth certificate. When I applied for it, I learned that the doctor who delivered me ( at home) had not even recorded it. I can only assume that he delayed recording it until I was named, and it got lost in the shuffle. I was able to obtain a "certificate of birth", after finding 3 relatives to verify that I was "born". ---------- > Hello to all! > > I have only briefly scanned this Naming Thing, though I will look at it in > more detail later. But I thought it would be an appropriate place for this > anticdote told to me by my Grandmother. > > Evidently, back in the days when people had such huge families they ran out of > ideas for names. My granny had a cousin who was born at home. When the > doctor asked her name, the parents said they hadn't decided yet. Well the > doctor picked the name "Mary" and put it on her birth certificate. In the > meantime, the parents decided that "Estelle" was a pretty name and she was > known by that. It was only when she went to draw her social security, that > she found out her birth certificate was listed in a different name. Imagine > her surprise. > > In another instance, a baby boy was born. The harried father was asked what > the name should be and the only name he could think of was the name of the > then current president, Calvin Coolidge. Fortunatelyl, Calvin lived to be a > very old man. <VBG> > > It was evidently not unheard of for doctors to just put any old name on the > certificate. So it could be necessary in some cases to look for the names of > the parents and the correct birthdate. > > Marsha > > > > ==== KYJacksonPurchase Mailing List ==== > Check out the Jackson Purchase Images Page at > http://www.rootsweb.com/~kygraves/temp/JPL.htm > for landowner survey maps of portions of the Jackson Purchase, plus other > images. Check it often - it changes as new material > is added. >

Based on the latest naming pattern puzzler, I got to thinking about one family that I have been brick-walled on for years. Can we assume that if in a family, they used a traditional naming pattern, can we "fill-in the blanks" on some of the brick-walls? Abner COOPER's (b Sept 1825 TN) parents have always been a mystery. From the naming patterns below, can I look to the possibility that Abners parents are named William and Mary COOPER? Here is what I have: Martha Helen COOPER (d/o Abner COOPER and Sarah WEST d/o Jesse WEST and Martha "Mollie" PRUITT) m John JC FLEMING (s/o Robert Russell FLEMING s/o David C FLEMING and Martha RUSSELL) and Martha Jane MARSHALL (d/o Reuben MARSHALL and Elizabeth JAMES). Martha Helen COOPER and John JC FLEMING had children (in birth order): Robert Russell FLEMING (named after his father) Abner Cooper FLEMING (her father) Mary Elizabeth FLEMING (1st name? and middle name after paternal gr-gm) John Reuben FLEMING (father and paternal gr-gf) Martha Jane FLEMING (mother and paternal gm) William David FLEMING (1st name? and paternal gr-gf) Fannie Rachel FLEMING (1st name? 2nd name?) Lula Helen FLEMING (1st name? 2nd after mother) John Graves FLEMING (was John Graves a famous person?) Thomas Richard FLEMING (? unknown names in families - a famous person?) Samuel Murray FLEMING (? unknown names in families - a famous person?) Henry Harrison FLEMING (? unknown names in families - a famous person?) Jesse McKinley FLEMING (? unknown names in families - a famous person?) Thanks for reading and giving me your thoughts. --GinaSmith@aol.com

Let's all jump on the L.& N. Railroad and visit Crofton, Ky at the Town Pump across from the old Crofton Hotel. Pick up an Jan-Feb 1895 Hopkinsville Kentuckian paper and read about the current happenings at: http://www.usroots.com/~kyseeker/christian/christalhn.html "bring your own dipper!" *******KYSEEKER********

Need information on John Pittman who was born 1865, married Callie Bard in Graves County. Believed to have left the area with the William Samuel Bard family who went to Texas. John Pittman died in 1899. Believe he is listed on the 1870 Graves County Census age 5, with mother Martha Pittman age 40, Tena age 18, William age 16, Virginia age 8. All these state they were born in TN. I did not find this Pittman Family on the 1860 TN census. 1870 the family is living in the approximate area that became Water Valley. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

My friends - I have had so many requests(and they are still coming in)for the William Gardner 1901 newspaper interview that I have decided to post it here to the List, and it will go simultaneously to the LORE List, as well. This will be our "data" post for this evening. Those of you who have not read this narrative will, I think, enjoy it for its historical value. I will be away from home most of the day tomorrow, and there may not be a data posting. If I return early enough to do it, I will post it. If not, I'll post a "No Data Post Today" note. -B ============================================================ Interview With William Gardner Paducah News-Democrat 1901 There is a gentleman, now visiting Paducah, who remembers when even the name Paducah did not exist, and when the site of this thriving city was a howling wilderness, unmarked by human habitation or footprints. The visitor is Mr. William Gardner, of Hico, Calloway County, father of Mr. Napoleon Gardner, of Paducah, and the oldest living pioneer in western Kentucky. He is the brother of the late Jesse M. Gardner, Paducah's first mayor. Mr. Gardner was born in North Carolina, near Saulsbury, November 28, 1804, and consequently lacks only three years and a little over a month of the century mark. His mind is remarkably bright and clear, and he is sufficiently strong physically to go anywhere he chooses. He was a native of the same county in North Carolina in which Daniel Boone lived before he explored Kentucky. Mr. Gardner's mother was a Miss Hampton, a cousin of Gen. Wade Hampton's grandfather. The family moved to Kentucky when Mr.Gardner, who with a twin brother, were the oldest children of the family, was 13 years of age. "I remember the trip distinctly", said Mr.Gardner to a News-Democrat reporter yesterday afternoon. "We first stopped at Boonesboro, Kentucky's first settlement on the Kentucky River. We stayed there two or three days. The old fort was even at that time beginning to look dilapidated.. From here we went to Clark County, where we lived several years. My brother, Jesse Gardner, who was the youngest of the family, was born there. We next moved to Calloway County, where I have since made my home. That was before the county was divided and old Wadesboro was the county seat. There were then only four counties in this part of the State. They were Hickman, McCracken, Calloway and Ballard". "The first time I cam into the vicinity of Paducah was the year I married in 1827,", and the old man's reminiscent tone took on a tender note. "You see", he continued smilingly, "I had to have something to keep house with, and so I started out to find it. I floated down the Tennessee River in a dugout with an old man, who was a friend of mine. Between us we had 500 pounds of bacon, which we brought down hunting for a market for it. When we reached the mouth of the Tennessee River, we were directed to Smithland, 12 miles up the Ohio River. With some difficulty, we got our clumsy craft up there by means of 'poling' it along the shallowest water. When we reached the wharf at Smithland, we disposed of our bacon at five cents a pound, the whole amount bringing $25.00. I bought my household outfit, which consisted of a set of knives and forks made of what was then known as pot metal, a set of plates, and some cups and saucers. The other things were made at home." "At that time, there was no sign of a town here. The first remembrance I have of the name of this city was a year after my marriage, when my sister-in-law came down in this section. She came back relating wonderful stories of a new place called Paducah. She said that it had one store and several houses, and that she had found it an excellent market for the farm products she had to sell." "'Paducah!', I exclaimed, 'what a curious name!' This is the first recollection I have of the present prosperous city." "But", said an interested listener, "tell us more of your wedding. Where did you get your wedding suit?" The old man's eyes twinkled. "It was made at home, every stitch of it. My mother wove the cloth, and the she made the clothes. They were gray jeans, and the shoes I made myself. They were of deer skin, which I had tanned and stripped of the hair. They were not half-bad looking shoes, either." My wife also spun, wove and made her wedding dress. She was a Miss Frances Miller, who came from South Carolina with her parents about the same time our family had moved from North Carolina. A remarkable woman, she was", and the old man's eyes showed with pride. "Besides weaving all of her wedding clothes and household outfit in the way of quilts, sheets, towels, and the like, she had sold enough of her work to buy a bureau. They were very rare in those days, I tell you, and this one cost $25.00. It was very plain and made of cherry. I never will forget how she enjoyed my surprise when she brought it out when we started to move to our new home. My granddaughter, who lives in Calloway County, still has the old bureau." Our first home was a log house of one room about 16 feet square. My oldest son, Napolean, who is now 73 years of age, was born there. When he was one year old, we moved to another place, several miles distant and a short way from where Hico now is. We had some difficulty in lighting our first fire in this home. It was late in the evening hen we got there and very cold. There were no matches in those days, and the flint, which was our only means of making a fire, had gotten misplaced. It was all I could do to unpack the household goods before night, so my wife left the baby with me and rode a mile on horseback to a neighbor's house to get a chunk of fire. She brought it back with her, and it was thus that our first fire was lit in a home in which we lived for 60 years. My wife died there at the age of 85 years." "Of course, in this time I came to Paducah many times and was surprised at each visit to find it larger. My brother, Jesse Gardner, came here to live and was this city's first mayor." The staunch old pioneer had voted in every presidential election except the first six. He was first a Whig and is now an enthusiastic Democrat. He voted for John Quincy Adams in 1829 and for William Jenning Bryan in 1899. He is a great disciple of Henry Clay, and says he was tempted to vote for him with he ran with Adams for vice-president in 1825, but lacked a few months of being of age. In religion, Mr.Gardner is a Baptist. He attended the Baptist association, then in session at Olivet Church, four miles from this city, on last Wednesday. Mr.Gardner relates an interesting incident connected with his life in North Carolina. He says his twin brother, Frank, who died at the age of 70, suffered when he was a boy from phthisis. An old German woman, who was a neighbor, told our mother that if she would cut a lock of hair and put it in a hole bored in a hickory sapling, he would be cured. She did so and thought nothing more about it, except that the phthisis left his brother entirely. A few years ago some woodmen in North Carolina cut down a large hickory tree. On the inside was a lock of hair, which had apparently come from the tow head of a child. The quaintness of the find awakened some interest, and it got into the newspapers and Mr.Gardner read of it. From the location of the tree, Mr.Gardner is sure that the lock of hair was that of his brother. He had never gone back to North Carolina. He and his brother had planned a trip back on their 70th birthday, but just before they were ready to start, his brother died. Mr. William Gardner has never since cared to go alone. He will return to his home in Calloway County this week, after enjoying his visit to Paducah. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does anyone have information on Rainy/Raney and Reed/Read? My father's family is the Carlock, Miller, and Bandy families from around Allen county.We have a lot of the history on these families but missed a lot on the Rainey and Reed families.--Alicia Mason

Any of you folks looking for Jones in Graves County...Does this family ring any bells with anyone??? 1850 Graves County Ky census Entry 589/589 J.W. Jones age 39 Blacksmith 150 born Tn Rutha Jones age 28 born Tennessee Sylvanius Male age 6 born Ky William Male age 4 born Ky John (or could be James? hard to read) male age 2 Malinda Female age 1 born Ky +George Gentry age 16 carpenter living in household **J.W. Jones was James W. Jones,,Rutha Jones was Rutha New...Rutha New was the Sister to my Gr.Gr. Grandfather William J. New, that married Angeline Tibbs. Any help would be appreciated.. Thanks Bette (New) Sousa Fremont, Ca.

Colleen, Perhaps if you offeredto make copies of what you have and send it to this "gentleman" (and I use that term loosely) he may see the error of his ways. Sounds to me like a woman who wrote a history of my husband's ancestors .... boy was she messed up. Right now I have two information from two researchers on the KILLEBREW family and they have a lot of discrepencies. If you have copies of official records stick to your guns until he can produce something better. Jennifer

Hello, I am a new subscriber. I am looking for information on Benjamin Clark who married Julia Ann Sudduth (Suddeth) in April 30, 1854. He had one known child James Francis Marion Clark born 1860. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Joyce Collins

Would JESSE FORD inquiring about Absalom Ford please contact me. Have tried his e-mail address several times and it keeps getting returned. Pat

My friends - Please excuse the need for this post to go to the List, but I have a request from an AOL subscriber with the user name TRAICEEL. I cannot fill the request, as my mail is being blocked. If Traiceel reads this, please unblock your mail coming from my address, so that I can fill you request. -B ============================================================

The Pioneer Graveyard has been added to the Christian County ALHN Home Page at: http://www.usroots.com/~kyseeker/christian/christalhn.html *******KYSEEKER********

My friends - Today, we are going to resume our look at vital statistics marriages from Calloway County in the period 1875-1878. In two prior segments in this series, we had worked our way through part of the year 1875, and we will continue with that year tonight. If you see a marriage of interest, and would like the full data set(which usually includes the ages of bride and groom, date of marriage, where each party was born and where the father and mother of the bride and groom were born, and, occasionally, the location of the ceremony), let me know and I will get that out to you. As always, your help in not resending this entire message back to me with your requests is greatly appreciated. I have had a tremendous number of requests for the William Gardner Interview piece from 1901, which indicates a lot of interest in this sort of material. I will be keeping my eyes open for more of this type of printed history as we go forward. -B ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Calloway County Vital Statistics Records - 1875-1878 - Marriages - Part 3 Kelley, C.D. Smith, M.A. Roberts, C.C. Frazee, Martha J. Curd, J.D.M. Sutherlin, Nancy Edwards, John Olison Osburn, M[ary] Elizabeth Grogan, James Adison Hicks, Mary Jane Garrison, W.R. Eldridge, R.A. Morris, J.W. West, S.A. Moore, D.A. Moore[sic], C.A. Ragsdale, J.G. Scarbrough, Margaret J. Myers, G.H. Dowdy, Sally C. Pogue, W.B. Pogue[sic], M.S. Erwin, M. Hitzler, E. Ferguson, W.R. Miller, E. Rogers, N.S. Williams, Lil A. Guier, N.O. Guier, E.M. Harris, A.J. Stagner, N.A. Atkins, N.J. McLane, W.P. Simpson, A.L. Stroud, A.A. Lovett, G.S. Kirk, V.M. Jones, W.D. Peters, Ellen McKeel Beach, Isaac N. Hudspeth, W.A. Hitzler, John Pall, Harriett Trimble, Otho Ramsey, Nancy A. Miller, W.B. Myers, Sally A.A. Taylor, T.M. Bladwin, M.F. Clark, Daniel Cooper, Mary ~to be continued~ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Tammy, I found information about my Tiller line at this site: http://www.resnet.wm.edu/~tltill/ Milton ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Volunteer of "Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness" at http://www.rootsweb.com/~tnraogk/index.htm ----- Original Message -----

This request is being posted to the List because the old address is no longer valid. Kathy/DiamondEnt please contact me. I have new info. Thanks, Anna

Is anyone researching Alben BARKLEY's family or any other BARKLEY families in the JP area. My GG Grandmother is an Elizabeth BARKLEY who married a Lafayette CLARK. Unfortunately I do not have a date on her. I do know that her son Gilson was born 23 Dec 1867. I am having trouble finding any information on her. The last three generations of my family have grown up being told that she was a cousin of Alben. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. Thank You Tracy BUSH

>1) Found a reference to: "Co. H 3rd KY'. Anyone know if this is a > Civil War Company and and anything about them? That would be Company H. There was a 3rd KY Infantry, 3rd KY Cavalry, and a 3rd KY Mounted Infantry. If it's properly written the 3rd KY should be a reference to the 3rd KY Infantry, but I think it was the 3rd KY Mounted Infantry that was raised in Fulton County. My ancestor Lacy Meadows Midgett is listed as being in the 3rd KY Regt, but I haven't found him on any KY roster, including the 3rd KY Mounted Infantry, and though he was from Graves Co., he for some reason joined the 8th MO Cavalry at some point. Jim

I am still seeking any information on the Tiller family. Henry Turner Tiller was my g-grandfather, he married Mary Jane Washburn Fowler, and a Pinnegar, and at the time of his death he was married to Lizzie Hammonds. Henry had a brother Lewis David "Jack" Tiller and a Sister Dora. His father was Sumner Tiller who married Mary Murray. I would like to know who the parents of Sumner Tiller were or any information on this family. henry is buried in Pinnegar Cemetery and lived in or around Old Eddyville. Henry was born in1888 and died in 1962. Thanks Tammy Clark----Indiana

Dear fellow researchers, I'm sorry to bother you but I have run across a situation that I am so stunned over and so new at genealogical research that I am unsure what to do next or who to ask! I answered a query about one of my ancestors. The name was Charles Sanderfer. I have documentation (his death certificate of 1918 which names his parents, marriage license, county vital records, censuses, etc.) that leads me to this ancestor back in 1850 in Casey Co., KY. His parents were Andrew Jackson Sanderfer & Rebecca Worley. I have tried to be very careful in gathering my evidence and believe I have done it correctly. But this gentleman who placed the query claims I am not a descendant because his grandfather (who died in 1934) said one time that his name was originally Charles Sandifer, though he was reared by an Evan Thomas and he later changed it to Worley because another family befriended him. When he married, he used the name Thomas Worley. That's all the evidence he has, no one else in his family ever knew anything about his grandfather's family. This gentleman says my documentation doesn't mean much if anything! He agrees that one of us has the wrong lineage, strongly hinting several times that it is me. What do I do now? How does one deal with a genealogist that won't accept documentation? I don't think I'll ever be able to convince him. Thank you for your time & patience, Colleen