This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: mfcour1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.kentucky.counties.garrard/891.957.1.1.2.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: The Madison Co,Marriage records are on the internet Mary Polly Ford Marriage to John Pruett,they married Sept 12, 1805 in Madison Co,Ky Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: mfcour1 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.kentucky.counties.garrard/891.957.1.1.2.2.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Mary Polly Ford's son by Chief Little Turtle,was given the American name:John Ford Pruett.He married the first time to Mildred Green,he left her and married Malissa Taylor ,Malissa was a daughter of Moorman Taylor & Levina Banks Taylor.They had five or six children came down the Green River on a log raft to Butler Co,Ky.Malissa died and John Ford Pruett married his 3rd wife,and had 3 children, JAmes Banton Pruett,Nancy Elizabeth Pruett,& William Thomas Henry Pruett. James Banton Pruett was my great grand father he married Martha Louisa Alford John Ford Pruett lied about his age,I think ! Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: georgeanne_edwards Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.kentucky.counties.garrard/891.957.1.1.2.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I am descended from Mary Polly's 1/2 brother, Joel. He stayed in Virginia, and wasn't with the family when they were ambushed at McNitt's Defeat in Laurel County. He did go to Indiana to bring her home when she was finally located. I have a copy of an advertisement, of sorts, that was placed in a newspaper in Ft Wayne Indiana, and in Kentucky...she's looking for her family in Kentucky. I know about Peter Ford's will and I understand the Madison county court records...when she came back to claim her inheritance...are 'very interesting'...haven't seen them. Have you?? Georgeanne Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

The story of the John Ford Pruett is very interesting; I also checked and found the Butler Co 1850 census John Pruett. One KY history author - maybe Harry Enoch?? - wrote that one account of what happened to John Ford Pruitt, was that he simply went back to live with the Indians.... Mary Alice ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

Gerald, I don't have the Vockery's Madison Co Marriages book, but do have their books of 2 other counties. I found the bonds I needed at EKU, microfilm of the orignals. Don't know when that film was made. Mine were all early - 1788 to 1809, and were there. As to wills, yes; many wills were "lifted" from the county clerk's office. My 5thGGf's 1817 will is in Jessamine Court House, but his wife's 1842 will is missing (but was copied by clerk into Will Book). Also, some clerks were horrible at copying correctly. Some were not dated as to when they were entered in court for probate!! I think that was in very early Madison or Lincoln counties. I found differences in the spelling of names between the actual will and the clerk's copy. Oh, well..... Mary Alice ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

Georganne, what year would that record be in County Court books?? No years mentioned here. ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

Gerald, I was just responding to Elizabeth, about the fabrication of films... didn't even notice your use of "vitals" .... Mary Alice ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

Pat, finding "boxes and boxes" would be wonderful! I tracked down the people who purchased rights to re-print a deceased woman's research books, since one will she mentioned but did not quote entirely, could not be verified - that entire Will Book 1 for Lawrence Co AL had been missing for many, many years - not available in any AL State source. The new owners of rights to these books, sold by writer's son, were in Arkansas; they wrote me there were no "loose papers" found by the son, and they purchased only the right to re-print the author's books. If anyone has a clue as to where I can find a filmed copy of the named Will Book, I will gladly pay for the information!! Mary Alice ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

Church records? -----Original Message----- From: kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of E Kaspar Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 2:40 PM To: M. A. Farrell; kygarrar@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYGARRAR] RE Garrard Co County DATA THANKS anyway! Gioe put out (self published) about 132 booklets of KY. stats from every county....ALL without any sources! Her husband is still advertising them in major genealogy magazines! KY. genealogical librarians are quite familiar with her work, and most libraries won't buy them because they lack any sources. She would have to have found zillions of family Bibles in order to glean all of the material she has put out. Her husband insists that she worked primarily in Frankfort, but I have met with all of the experts there. Elizabeth M. A. Farrell wrote: > This didn't arrive with my post yesterday, and Gerald has made the subject clear: > > I have never heard of the woman or her booklets; I will say it sounds as if she got much of this info on birth and marriages from old bible records. The Frankfort connection is interesting. > > I find it nearly impossible to get an exact date of very early marriage unless it happened in a place where there was actually a minister or magistrate who recorded the marriage. As to exact birthdates - very hard to find. Some recorded documents (County Court Order Books) contain birthdates of children - binding them out, for instance, until exactly 21 years old. Other early documents I have seen containing chidren's exact birthdates and full names, are "Separation Agreements", where a couple have a legal agreement as to alimony, custody and support of children. These have been found in Will Books and Deed Books. I have seen emancipations of slaves with an exact date of birth - usually children. Generally speaking, this is very hard information to come by - except in family bibles.. > > Wish I could help, but can't. Mary Alice > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KYGARRAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Elizabeth, the microfilms are of the original County records - county courts, deeds, wills and probate, marriage bonds, land entries, surveys, patents, etc. These are not called "vital statistics", but you glean the genealogical material by reading them. They are, indeed, real and not farbicated films of the original, hand-written documents!! People have been reading these for many years - a lot of the films I have at my local LDS Family History Center - the same available at the KY Library Archives in Frankfort, and KY university libraries - were filmed back in the 1940s and 50s. I suppose you haven't been researching long enough to have seen these??? They are the only "real proof" records, unless you have something before copied by the County Clerks into the record books. Genealogy has moved leaps and bounds beyond reading the old books published by so-called researchers.... Hope you will discover this wonderful world of research!! Mary Alice ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

Elizabeth, I search fonly for primary source documents, so have no use for the older compilations of genealogical information - research only court, land, probate, etc, recorded material. Mary Alice ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

THANKS anyway! Gioe put out (self published) about 132 booklets of KY. stats from every county....ALL without any sources! Her husband is still advertising them in major genealogy magazines! KY. genealogical librarians are quite familiar with her work, and most libraries won't buy them because they lack any sources. She would have to have found zillions of family Bibles in order to glean all of the material she has put out. Her husband insists that she worked primarily in Frankfort, but I have met with all of the experts there. Elizabeth M. A. Farrell wrote: > This didn't arrive with my post yesterday, and Gerald has made the subject clear: > > I have never heard of the woman or her booklets; I will say it sounds as if she got much of this info on birth and marriages from old bible records. The Frankfort connection is interesting. > > I find it nearly impossible to get an exact date of very early marriage unless it happened in a place where there was actually a minister or magistrate who recorded the marriage. As to exact birthdates - very hard to find. Some recorded documents (County Court Order Books) contain birthdates of children - binding them out, for instance, until exactly 21 years old. Other early documents I have seen containing chidren's exact birthdates and full names, are "Separation Agreements", where a couple have a legal agreement as to alimony, custody and support of children. These have been found in Will Books and Deed Books. I have seen emancipations of slaves with an exact date of birth - usually children. Generally speaking, this is very hard information to come by - except in family bibles.. > > Wish I could help, but can't. Mary Alice > > > > > >

GT wrote: > Correct me if I am wrong, but Vital Statistics films for the late 1700's and > early 1800's do not exist. If so, someone has fabricated such records. > Again, correct me if in error. > *No,* the stats Gioe quotes are true; I already have located 4-5 of the births, so know her data are accurate. Also she has the spouses named correctly for many of my relatives who lived then along with later births to them. This makes the situation all the more puzzling. WHERE did she find all of these? There must be a long and early Garrard list somewhere. Kathy Vockery is puzzled too. EAK > When Vital Stats were mandated on and off for several years beginning > 1852-1859 and again 1874-1878 for Garrard Co., they were far from accurate > in many cases. > Bill and Kathy Vockery pretty well explains the difficulty when they > researched by film and original records. They added to their completed > publication a hand written note by Geo. A. Brown, Assesser G. C. in 1854: > "In Consequence of Midwives and doctors living in adjacent Counties > practicing in Different Counties, and Midwives not returning Certificates, > the ignorance of many Citizens and the neglect of Masters, to record their > Slaves births and Deaths Our Registry is bound to be more or less > imperfect." > > Not to say that this has happened in Garrard Co., but I am aware of it > occuring in another county. Whenever, the parents are not decided on a name > for their new born, the responsible party would leave the new birth as > "unnamed", but in a few cases, the Doctor would simple add his name to the > child, and the true name would later appear in the records! > > Although there is, for example, a James Baker in the early Tax Lists, it > does not reveal family names. Also the early census has a james Baker, but > again no wife or others named. > > Unless the names are mentioned in Deeds or other court actions, it is hard > to really identify the Bakers, for example. > > Mrs. Gioe left a lot to wonder about. I'll not say she purposely omitted > her sources, but one wonders about embellishment and unintential combining > of different counties' data. > GRT > > >> Vital statistics films? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of E Kaspar >> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 10:04 PM >> To: M. A. Farrell; kygarrar@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [KYGARRAR] County data >> >> Looking for a miracle! >> >> The late Joan Colbert Gioe of "The Researchers" in Indianapolis, put >> out dozens of booklets listing Kentucky vital statistics. Alas, none >> cited any sources. The booklets listed data by county; several focused >> on data from Garrard County. >> >> For ten years or so I have been searching for her sources for the many >> births listed to my great4grandparents, James and Elizabeth Fuqua Baker >> in the late 1700s and early 1800s in Garrard Co. Librarians at The >> Kentucky History Center (They report many similar requests regarding her >> sources), the state archives and The Filson Society in Louisville all >> are stumped. Together we have searched in vain. Also I have put repeated >> queries in the journal of The Kentucky Genealogy Society and the >> Garrard Co. Historical Society Newsletter. I sought help from the KY. >> expert at the library in Salt Lake City as well. >> >> I have been offering $75 to anyone who can produce her original sources >> for these Baker data. The offer still stands. >> >> In this particular Garrard booklet, her list contains several hundred >> births and marriages; therefore she must have found a sizable book of >> data. Her husband has no idea where she found the material though he >> reports that she spent most of her research time in Frankfort. >> >> I continue to hope that someone will stumble on her original sources. >> Somewhere they have to exist! >> >> E. A. Kaspar >> >> >> >

Elizabeth and all. I don't know who Betty J. Masley and Carley Gioe are, but perhaps they would be a resource? "Compiled from the Records of the KY State Historical Society by Joan Colbert Gioe, revised in 1996 by Betty J. Masley and Carley Gioe. Researchers Publications, PO Box 39063 Indianapolis, IN 46239." It looks as though, from a cursory websearch, that Joan produced many, many, pamphlets from several states and counties, and on. . and on . . Seems this discussion has occurred before, but has anyone gone to the husband (is that Carley? If so, there is a son, Mario) and asked for her "notes"? My bet is there are boxes and boxes. Pat (in Tucson) -----Original Message----- From: kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of E Kaspar Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:40 AM To: M. A. Farrell; kygarrar@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYGARRAR] RE Garrard Co County DATA THANKS anyway! Gioe put out (self published) about 132 booklets of KY. stats from every county....ALL without any sources! Her husband is still advertising them in major genealogy magazines! KY. genealogical librarians are quite familiar with her work, and most libraries won't buy them because they lack any sources. She would have to have found zillions of family Bibles in order to glean all of the material she has put out. Her husband insists that she worked primarily in Frankfort, but I have met with all of the experts there. Elizabeth M. A. Farrell wrote: > This didn't arrive with my post yesterday, and Gerald has made the subject clear: > > I have never heard of the woman or her booklets; I will say it sounds as if she got much of this info on birth and marriages from old bible records. The Frankfort connection is interesting. > > I find it nearly impossible to get an exact date of very early marriage unless it happened in a place where there was actually a minister or magistrate who recorded the marriage. As to exact birthdates - very hard to find. Some recorded documents (County Court Order Books) contain birthdates of children - binding them out, for instance, until exactly 21 years old. Other early documents I have seen containing chidren's exact birthdates and full names, are "Separation Agreements", where a couple have a legal agreement as to alimony, custody and support of children. These have been found in Will Books and Deed Books. I have seen emancipations of slaves with an exact date of birth - usually children. Generally speaking, this is very hard information to come by - except in family bibles.. > > Wish I could help, but can't. Mary Alice > > > > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KYGARRAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: DWW502 Surnames: Comley/Hager/Murphy/Massie Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.kentucky.counties.garrard/1186.1388.1393/mb.ashx Message Board Post: These are my ancestors........my gggreat grandmother was Susie Murphy Hager wife of Millard Hager. She was the daughter of Linsy Murphy and Susie Massie. The sister to Paulina was Martha and Betsey A. E-mail me at dww502@aol.com so we can share info Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Vital Statistics films for the late 1700's and early 1800's do not exist. If so, someone has fabricated such records. Again, correct me if in error. When Vital Stats were mandated on and off for several years beginning 1852-1859 and again 1874-1878 for Garrard Co., they were far from accurate in many cases. Bill and Kathy Vockery pretty well explains the difficulty when they researched by film and original records. They added to their completed publication a hand written note by Geo. A. Brown, Assesser G. C. in 1854: "In Consequence of Midwives and doctors living in adjacent Counties practicing in Different Counties, and Midwives not returning Certificates, the ignorance of many Citizens and the neglect of Masters, to record their Slaves births and Deaths Our Registry is bound to be more or less imperfect." Not to say that this has happened in Garrard Co., but I am aware of it occuring in another county. Whenever, the parents are not decided on a name for their new born, the responsible party would leave the new birth as "unnamed", but in a few cases, the Doctor would simple add his name to the child, and the true name would later appear in the records! Although there is, for example, a James Baker in the early Tax Lists, it does not reveal family names. Also the early census has a james Baker, but again no wife or others named. Unless the names are mentioned in Deeds or other court actions, it is hard to really identify the Bakers, for example. Mrs. Gioe left a lot to wonder about. I'll not say she purposely omitted her sources, but one wonders about embellishment and unintential combining of different counties' data. GRT > Vital statistics films? > > -----Original Message----- > From: kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of E Kaspar > Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 10:04 PM > To: M. A. Farrell; kygarrar@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KYGARRAR] County data > > Looking for a miracle! > > The late Joan Colbert Gioe of "The Researchers" in Indianapolis, put > out dozens of booklets listing Kentucky vital statistics. Alas, none > cited any sources. The booklets listed data by county; several focused > on data from Garrard County. > > For ten years or so I have been searching for her sources for the many > births listed to my great4grandparents, James and Elizabeth Fuqua Baker > in the late 1700s and early 1800s in Garrard Co. Librarians at The > Kentucky History Center (They report many similar requests regarding her > sources), the state archives and The Filson Society in Louisville all > are stumped. Together we have searched in vain. Also I have put repeated > queries in the journal of The Kentucky Genealogy Society and the > Garrard Co. Historical Society Newsletter. I sought help from the KY. > expert at the library in Salt Lake City as well. > > I have been offering $75 to anyone who can produce her original sources > for these Baker data. The offer still stands. > > In this particular Garrard booklet, her list contains several hundred > births and marriages; therefore she must have found a sizable book of > data. Her husband has no idea where she found the material though he > reports that she spent most of her research time in Frankfort. > > I continue to hope that someone will stumble on her original sources. > Somewhere they have to exist! > > E. A. Kaspar > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KYGARRAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KYGARRAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This didn't arrive with my post yesterday, and Gerald has made the subject clear: I have never heard of the woman or her booklets; I will say it sounds as if she got much of this info on birth and marriages from old bible records. The Frankfort connection is interesting. I find it nearly impossible to get an exact date of very early marriage unless it happened in a place where there was actually a minister or magistrate who recorded the marriage. As to exact birthdates - very hard to find. Some recorded documents (County Court Order Books) contain birthdates of children - binding them out, for instance, until exactly 21 years old. Other early documents I have seen containing chidren's exact birthdates and full names, are "Separation Agreements", where a couple have a legal agreement as to alimony, custody and support of children. These have been found in Will Books and Deed Books. I have seen emancipations of slaves with an exact date of birth - usually children. Generally speaking, this is very hard information to come by - except in family bibles.. Wish I could help, but can't. Mary Alice ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com

Vital statistics films? -----Original Message----- From: kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kygarrar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of E Kaspar Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 10:04 PM To: M. A. Farrell; kygarrar@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYGARRAR] County data Looking for a miracle! The late Joan Colbert Gioe of "The Researchers" in Indianapolis, put out dozens of booklets listing Kentucky vital statistics. Alas, none cited any sources. The booklets listed data by county; several focused on data from Garrard County. For ten years or so I have been searching for her sources for the many births listed to my great4grandparents, James and Elizabeth Fuqua Baker in the late 1700s and early 1800s in Garrard Co. Librarians at The Kentucky History Center (They report many similar requests regarding her sources), the state archives and The Filson Society in Louisville all are stumped. Together we have searched in vain. Also I have put repeated queries in the journal of The Kentucky Genealogy Society and the Garrard Co. Historical Society Newsletter. I sought help from the KY. expert at the library in Salt Lake City as well. I have been offering $75 to anyone who can produce her original sources for these Baker data. The offer still stands. In this particular Garrard booklet, her list contains several hundred births and marriages; therefore she must have found a sizable book of data. Her husband has no idea where she found the material though he reports that she spent most of her research time in Frankfort. I continue to hope that someone will stumble on her original sources. Somewhere they have to exist! E. A. Kaspar ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KYGARRAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Looking for a miracle! The late Joan Colbert Gioe of "The Researchers" in Indianapolis, put out dozens of booklets listing Kentucky vital statistics. Alas, none cited any sources. The booklets listed data by county; several focused on data from Garrard County. For ten years or so I have been searching for her sources for the many births listed to my great4grandparents, James and Elizabeth Fuqua Baker in the late 1700s and early 1800s in Garrard Co. Librarians at The Kentucky History Center (They report many similar requests regarding her sources), the state archives and The Filson Society in Louisville all are stumped. Together we have searched in vain. Also I have put repeated queries in the journal of The Kentucky Genealogy Society and the Garrard Co. Historical Society Newsletter. I sought help from the KY. expert at the library in Salt Lake City as well. I have been offering $75 to anyone who can produce her original sources for these Baker data. The offer still stands. In this particular Garrard booklet, her list contains several hundred births and marriages; therefore she must have found a sizable book of data. Her husband has no idea where she found the material though he reports that she spent most of her research time in Frankfort. I continue to hope that someone will stumble on her original sources. Somewhere they have to exist! E. A. Kaspar