My sympathy to the Bill Baker families. Nancy

Well? She's 43 and married with at least 9 kids by the time the 1880 was taken. Judging by the age of the oldest child, I presume she married at about the age of 23 in about 1860. We could try looking for a 13 year old black or mulatto Harriet in Clay Co. in the 1850 census. It isn't likely that there would be too many to choose from, is there? It wouldn't be conclusive proof, but it would have a very high probability ratio. Do you already have her on the 1860 as being married and having children? 1880 Census Place Manchester, Clay, Kentucky - Page Number 469A Family History Library Film 1254410 NA Film Number T9-0410 William POTTER Self M Male B 48 KY Shoemaker KY KY Harriet POTTER Wife M Female B 43 KY Keeping House KY KY Berry POTTER Son S Male B 19 KY At Home KY KY Almira POTTER Dau S Female B 15 KY At Home KY KY William POTTER Son S Male B 13 KY At Home KY KY Sarah POTTER Dau S Female B 12 KY At Home KY KY Carolina POTTER Dau S Female B 11 KY At Home KY KY Olivia POTTER Dau S Female B 7 KY KY KY Stephen POTTER Son S Male B 5 KY KY KY Newton POTTER Son S Male B 3 KY KY KY Louisa POTTER Dau S Female B 1M KY KY KY Kathy Renee Smith wrote: > > Slavery - that "peculiar institution". I have found it almost an impossibility thus far tracing slaves/slave names. I am running into this difficulty with my slave ancestor Harriett. I have read many, many documents wherein (if fortunate) at least the slave's given name is mentioned.

Jess our cousin Bill Baker died last night he was Tom Baker & Emily Lytter Baker grandson Bob Baker & Floria Ball Bill Baker & Ann Edith Ball Holiday Fl

Katie, I have a better one for you than that. My grandmother raised her neice because her mother, my grandmothers sister died. When she came there her name was Mary but when she left years later she knew her name as Charlesetta. My grandmother had only one brother and apparently she worshiped him. She named my mother Char' lene, pronounced like Charles with the Lene at the end. She also renamed Mary to Charlesetta after him. When Charlesetta applied for her retirement they could not find her. There was a Mary listed to her parents with her birthdate etc etc etc. So one never knows what may happen. Life is a true drama isn't it? Sue Ann Hornung Morrow Kygal@tampabay.rr.com Gulfport FL researching since 1973 Please visit my website at: http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/m/o/r/Sue-Morrow-Gulfport/ and my NEW webite at: http://www.geocities.com/suekygal2003/ Very Interested in families from Harlan County and Southeastern Kentucky ----- Original Message ----- From: Katie To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Harriet Potter, 1920 Clay County Census Hi Renee,don't take the census or birth records as gospel! I found the birth for my Aunt , and she was listed as Lillie Smith when in fact no one ever knew her as anything other than Gertrude Smith! When she applied for Social Security, she had to find people to swear she was "Gertrude"! Gertrude Smith, b, 2-28-1914,2002. Also "Lillie" is a nickname for Lillian. Just check whatever records you have for your grandma. Good Luck in your quest! Katie in Fairborn OH. k.t@core.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Renee Smith" <hrsmith40@msn.com> To: <KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Harriet Potter, 1920 Clay County Census > Perhaps. Maybe Sue Morrow has stumbled upon something. Well....Lord knows. Can you imagine the situation? To have thought that my grandma was Lillian all these years and to find out that perhaps she was "Lillie" instead? (She raised me. This is not someone who I only heard about or saw on a census record.) There apparently is some "mystery" surfacing here. I buried my grandmother as "Lillian". She lived, married, and moved in this society as "Lillian". > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: CM7153@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:53 AM > To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Harriet Potter, 1920 Clay County Census > > In a message dated 7/26/03 11:07:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > hrsmith40@msn.com writes: > > > anywhere. She was born in 1914 in Clay Co. and is the daughter of Louisa > > and granddaughter of Harriett. THANKS AGAIN. > > God Bless. > > Renee > > Columbus, Ohio > > Renee, > > Could she be the Lillie that is listed? > > Thanks, > Charlotte > > >

A birth certificate is available and a copy could be obtained for a Lillian H. Potter. The birthday is 4 28 1914 Clay County vol 38 certificate 18918 Mother Louisa Potter. This certificate was not issued until 1943 -----Original Message----- From: Renee Smith [mailto:hrsmith40@msn.com] Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:59 AM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Harriet Potter, 1920 Clay County Census Perhaps. Maybe Sue Morrow has stumbled upon something. Well....Lord knows. Can you imagine the situation? To have thought that my grandma was Lillian all these years and to find out that perhaps she was "Lillie" instead? (She raised me. This is not someone who I only heard about or saw on a census record.) There apparently is some "mystery" surfacing here. I buried my grandmother as "Lillian". She lived, married, and moved in this society as "Lillian". ----- Original Message ----- From: CM7153@aol.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:53 AM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Harriet Potter, 1920 Clay County Census In a message dated 7/26/03 11:07:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hrsmith40@msn.com writes: > anywhere. She was born in 1914 in Clay Co. and is the daughter of Louisa > and granddaughter of Harriett. THANKS AGAIN. > God Bless. > Renee > Columbus, Ohio Renee, Could she be the Lillie that is listed? Thanks, Charlotte

Must have been "Smiths" LOL! ----- Original Message ----- From: <Guilda11133@aol.com> To: <KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:16 AM Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered (William Potter) > Thank you, Renee, > I would love to have your resources. > > My cousin said they weren't registered because they hid & weren't moved at > the time. > > Thanks again, > Guilda > > >

Hi Renee,don't take the census or birth records as gospel! I found the birth for my Aunt , and she was listed as Lillie Smith when in fact no one ever knew her as anything other than Gertrude Smith! When she applied for Social Security, she had to find people to swear she was "Gertrude"! Gertrude Smith, b, 2-28-1914,2002. Also "Lillie" is a nickname for Lillian. Just check whatever records you have for your grandma. Good Luck in your quest! Katie in Fairborn OH. k.t@core.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Renee Smith" <hrsmith40@msn.com> To: <KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:58 AM Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Harriet Potter, 1920 Clay County Census > Perhaps. Maybe Sue Morrow has stumbled upon something. Well....Lord knows. Can you imagine the situation? To have thought that my grandma was Lillian all these years and to find out that perhaps she was "Lillie" instead? (She raised me. This is not someone who I only heard about or saw on a census record.) There apparently is some "mystery" surfacing here. I buried my grandmother as "Lillian". She lived, married, and moved in this society as "Lillian". > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: CM7153@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:53 AM > To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Harriet Potter, 1920 Clay County Census > > In a message dated 7/26/03 11:07:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > hrsmith40@msn.com writes: > > > anywhere. She was born in 1914 in Clay Co. and is the daughter of Louisa > > and granddaughter of Harriett. THANKS AGAIN. > > God Bless. > > Renee > > Columbus, Ohio > > Renee, > > Could she be the Lillie that is listed? > > Thanks, > Charlotte > > >

Thank you, Renee, I would love to have your resources. My cousin said they weren't registered because they hid & weren't moved at the time. Thanks again, Guilda

Doe any one know where I would look for records of a pool farm? This is where people would stay if they had no other places to live. Thanks Vanita

Perhaps. Maybe Sue Morrow has stumbled upon something. Well....Lord knows. Can you imagine the situation? To have thought that my grandma was Lillian all these years and to find out that perhaps she was "Lillie" instead? (She raised me. This is not someone who I only heard about or saw on a census record.) There apparently is some "mystery" surfacing here. I buried my grandmother as "Lillian". She lived, married, and moved in this society as "Lillian". ----- Original Message ----- From: CM7153@aol.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:53 AM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Harriet Potter, 1920 Clay County Census In a message dated 7/26/03 11:07:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hrsmith40@msn.com writes: > anywhere. She was born in 1914 in Clay Co. and is the daughter of Louisa > and granddaughter of Harriett. THANKS AGAIN. > God Bless. > Renee > Columbus, Ohio Renee, Could she be the Lillie that is listed? Thanks, Charlotte

In a message dated 7/26/03 11:07:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hrsmith40@msn.com writes: > anywhere. She was born in 1914 in Clay Co. and is the daughter of Louisa > and granddaughter of Harriett. THANKS AGAIN. > God Bless. > Renee > Columbus, Ohio Renee, Could she be the Lillie that is listed? Thanks, Charlotte

Slavery - that "peculiar institution". I have found it almost an impossibility thus far tracing slaves/slave names. I am running into this difficulty with my slave ancestor Harriett. I have read many, many documents wherein (if fortunate) at least the slave's given name is mentioned. ----- Original Message ----- From: Allison Reker Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:24 AM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [KYCLAY] slave question Those of you with some experience in tracing slaves, I have a general question. How hard is it to find out what happened to a particular slave when you don't know what her last name is? I have a copy of a very old will, probated in 1823 in Madison County, VA. In it one of my ancestors writes "It is my will and desire that the balance of my old negro woman Milley shall have the priviledge of choosing her master, and that whoever she may choose, shall have her at valuation." I've always wondered what happened to her. Is there any possible way to find out, or is that a lost cause all together? -----Original Message----- From: Joyce Collins [mailto:joycecollins@compuserve.com] Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 12:44 AM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered (William Potter) RESPONSE: The WHITES and the GARRARDS were part of the wealthy, slave holding families in Clay Co. associated with the salt making industry in that county of that time. There were several free "Blacks" listed in the census prior to the Civil War who are listed in the census records and who worked in the saltmaking industry. Hugh WHITE came from VA into Clay Co. before 1800 and was one of the pioneers of the salt making industry. If you have old photos of Clay Co., I would suggest you contact the person now in charge of the main Clay Co. webpage. I think that is Kelly. If you go to the main Clay Co. page, you will locate her address. I'm sure she would be grateful to have copies of any of those photos to post as she is rebuilding the Clay Co. site. It would be most interesting to me and I'm sure to others to be able to view them. From the 1880 Clay Co. Fed. Census, Dwelling 5-6 WHITE, Beverly P., 38, b. KY; father b. AL, mother b. KY . .Helen G., 32, wife, b. KY; parents b. KY . .James, 11, son, KY . .Eva, 9, dau, KY . .Lucy, 7, dau, KY NEAL, Polly, Mulatto female, 14, servant, b. TN; father b. TN; mother b. KY POTTER, Ellen, Black female, 38, servant, b. KY; father b. KY; mother b. VA NOTE Helen GARRARD married Beverly P. WHITE. Dwelling 274-317 is one POTTER family that was listed as a Black family ; however, with the excpetion of their ages, none of the names could be read by the transcriber. All that is listed is: Dwelling 274-317 POTTER, J.??, BM, 54, widow, b. KY; father b. KY; mother b. VA . .W. ???, 25, son, KY . . Be.???, 18, son, KY . ._____, 12, dau, KY . ._____, 9, male, KY NOTE: All chidren are listed as Black family members. . .______, 48, White family, b. VA; father b. IR; mother b. VA . .+_____, 33, wife, b. KY; parents b. KY Joyce Taylor Collins La Palma, CA Message text written by INTERNET:KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com >Sorry Calvin, Wanted to clarify. When you said the Potters lived near the Whites, might you lend the census data on the Whites. I do remember now that a relative told me that grandma Harriett may have been in servitude to a WHITE family at some point in time. Renee Charlotte, Calvin, all others w/Clay Co. interests. I have LOTS of very old photos, some on tin-type of various folks, black and white. I wanted to find a website that I could post them to that Clay county folk may attempt to identify them. Some of the photos are wonderfully preserved, others very poor. However, I hold ea. and every one of them as treasure. I will try to email you a couple to you soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: Calvin Smith<

Guilda, Re: NA research, have you tried the NA Census data such as Dawes Roll, Guion-Miller Roll, Baker Roll? Have you tried the many NA pages online? I would be happy to send you a list of the resources I have. Renee Schedules for NA Rolls can be found in the book "The Source" published by Ancestry (Ancestry, Box 476, Salt Lake City, Utah 84110) -- has detailed schedules re: Native Americans: Manufacturing, Agricultural) ----- Original Message ----- From: Guilda11133@aol.com Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:29 AM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered (William Potter) Jes, You are right about the NA. My G-Gran'ma, Susan Proffitt George, told my Gran'ma, Sarah Elizabeth George, their family hid in the NC mountains to escape the Gov't. moving them West. I'm supposing that was the Trail of Tears. Sarah was born in Pittsburg, Laurel, Ky. She married David Yeager & moved to Yale, Johnson Co. Ar. Then on to Ok.after Gran'dad died & Gran'ma was left with 5 children , one born a few months after Gran'dad died. Wish I could talk with Gran'ma now. She told her daughter, that Susan, G-Gran'ma, was 1/2 NA. Sorry, didn't mean to ramble! Guilda

Jes, You are right about the NA. My G-Gran'ma, Susan Proffitt George, told my Gran'ma, Sarah Elizabeth George, their family hid in the NC mountains to escape the Gov't. moving them West. I'm supposing that was the Trail of Tears. Sarah was born in Pittsburg, Laurel, Ky. She married David Yeager & moved to Yale, Johnson Co. Ar. Then on to Ok.after Gran'dad died & Gran'ma was left with 5 children , one born a few months after Gran'dad died. Wish I could talk with Gran'ma now. She told her daughter, that Susan, G-Gran'ma, was 1/2 NA. Sorry, didn't mean to ramble! Guilda

Those of you with some experience in tracing slaves, I have a general question. How hard is it to find out what happened to a particular slave when you don't know what her last name is? I have a copy of a very old will, probated in 1823 in Madison County, VA. In it one of my ancestors writes "It is my will and desire that the balance of my old negro woman Milley shall have the priviledge of choosing her master, and that whoever she may choose, shall have her at valuation." I've always wondered what happened to her. Is there any possible way to find out, or is that a lost cause all together? -----Original Message----- From: Joyce Collins [mailto:joycecollins@compuserve.com] Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 12:44 AM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered (William Potter) RESPONSE: The WHITES and the GARRARDS were part of the wealthy, slave holding families in Clay Co. associated with the salt making industry in that county of that time. There were several free "Blacks" listed in the census prior to the Civil War who are listed in the census records and who worked in the saltmaking industry. Hugh WHITE came from VA into Clay Co. before 1800 and was one of the pioneers of the salt making industry. If you have old photos of Clay Co., I would suggest you contact the person now in charge of the main Clay Co. webpage. I think that is Kelly. If you go to the main Clay Co. page, you will locate her address. I'm sure she would be grateful to have copies of any of those photos to post as she is rebuilding the Clay Co. site. It would be most interesting to me and I'm sure to others to be able to view them. From the 1880 Clay Co. Fed. Census, Dwelling 5-6 WHITE, Beverly P., 38, b. KY; father b. AL, mother b. KY . .Helen G., 32, wife, b. KY; parents b. KY . .James, 11, son, KY . .Eva, 9, dau, KY . .Lucy, 7, dau, KY NEAL, Polly, Mulatto female, 14, servant, b. TN; father b. TN; mother b. KY POTTER, Ellen, Black female, 38, servant, b. KY; father b. KY; mother b. VA NOTE Helen GARRARD married Beverly P. WHITE. Dwelling 274-317 is one POTTER family that was listed as a Black family ; however, with the excpetion of their ages, none of the names could be read by the transcriber. All that is listed is: Dwelling 274-317 POTTER, J.??, BM, 54, widow, b. KY; father b. KY; mother b. VA . .W. ???, 25, son, KY . . Be.???, 18, son, KY . ._____, 12, dau, KY . ._____, 9, male, KY NOTE: All chidren are listed as Black family members. . .______, 48, White family, b. VA; father b. IR; mother b. VA . .+_____, 33, wife, b. KY; parents b. KY Joyce Taylor Collins La Palma, CA Message text written by INTERNET:KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com >Sorry Calvin, Wanted to clarify. When you said the Potters lived near the Whites, might you lend the census data on the Whites. I do remember now that a relative told me that grandma Harriett may have been in servitude to a WHITE family at some point in time. Renee Charlotte, Calvin, all others w/Clay Co. interests. I have LOTS of very old photos, some on tin-type of various folks, black and white. I wanted to find a website that I could post them to that Clay county folk may attempt to identify them. Some of the photos are wonderfully preserved, others very poor. However, I hold ea. and every one of them as treasure. I will try to email you a couple to you soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: Calvin Smith<

I can see that I'm not the only one who has been overwhelmed with gratitude because of the efforts of this group and my smith email group (which have many of the same people) : ) I've never met so many kind and generous people, who go to such lengths to help others. All of you really are a God send. -----Original Message----- From: Renee Smith [mailto:hrsmith40@msn.com] Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 11:14 PM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [KYCLAY] CLAY LOOKUP INFO - THANK YOUS I am overwhelmed. This list has been a GOD-SEND. I say with all sincerity and with the utmost of appreciation. I am sssooo very grateful for the information. As my grandma Lillian used to say - "The good Lord sho did put a aweful lotta things here for us to enjoy." (That being before the days of the internet and worldwide web.) Tonight I am overwhelmed with the helpful response from everyone and just wanted to send a word of thanks to the following who have given of their time to help with my very difficult search: CHARLOTTE MILLER CALVIN SMITH JOYCE COLLINS BETTY EDDY If any omissions, please forgive. THANK YOU ALL AND GOD BLESS. Turning in for tonight but will write more later. Renee Columbus, OH

I have a little information on the Yeagers and the Powells. Would love to talk with you a little. Cassy. -- Please check out my new free genealogy site. I am currently looking for others willing to share their photographs as well. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~foe3643/

Another weekend update to Tombstone Central. The following cemeteries can be found by going to Tombstone Central's home page http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~foe3643/ Click on the "blue" State you are interested in then click on any of the cemeteries you would like to view. Please don't forget we are always looking for others to donate photographs so they can be shared with all. Sometimes it takes me a while to post them, but I don't think I've lost any yet. :-) Cassy. ARKANSAS CLAY COUNTY Williams Cemetery KENTUCKY KNOX COUNTY CEMETERIES Betty Frost Cemetery, Disappointment Hollow Callebs Creek Cemetery, Callebs Creek Williamson, Walker LEWIS COUNTY CEMETERIES Laurel Point, KY RTE 59 Stone, Scotts Branch Road Walnut-Grove, KY RTE 1068 CARTER COUNTY CEMETERIES Unknown Cemetery, Henderson Branch Tabor Cemetery, Psimer Ridge WHITLEY COUNTY CEMETERIES Piney Grove, Williamsbug -- Please check out my new free genealogy site. I am currently looking for others willing to share their photographs as well. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~foe3643/

Jesse, Yes, I agree and realize that. This coincides with something told to me by a family member, that perhaps the WHITE family was who Harriett was in servitude to. From what I have gleaned from my 15+ years of digging, it may have been the WHITE family and/or the Barton POTTER family (for William). Thank you kindly. I appreciate everyone's input. This has been a quest of more than 15 years for our family, obtaining this information. BEST SUCCESS TO ALL IN THEIR RESEARCH Renee We cannot change the past, But we can change our attitude toward it. Uproot guilt and plant forgiveness. Tear out arrogance and seed humility. Exchange love for hate -- Thereby, making the present comfortable And the future promising. ----- Original Message ----- From: jess wilson Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 8:09 AM To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered (William Potter) Renee, When they rererred to "the white`s" they may have been talking about the WHITES, one of the first and most prominent families in Clay County. Jess Wilson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Renee Smith" <hrsmith40@msn.com> To: <KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered (William Potter) > Calvin, > Oh, you just don't know how much this means. To have this info offered, in that you say they lived "near the whites". Can you please help me understand how this was gleaned. Can a location be pinpointed at all? By chance any way of determining from whince Harriet came before marrying William? Someone else reported my grandmother having appeared on the census as "Mulatto" - which is new news to me. I can get no further than back than Harriett and William. I suppose I'll never find out what Harriett's surname was prior to her becoming a Potter. > Thank you ever so much. > Renee > Columbus Ohio > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Calvin Smith > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 1:25 PM > To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered (William Potter) > > 1900 census indicates the following: > Potter William head bm apr 1831 69 m 31 > Harriet wife bf may 1848 52 m 31 12 kids 6 living > Steven son bm sep 1870 29 s > Newton son bm may 1879 21 s > Louise dau bf apr 1882 18 s > Lilly gdau bf aug 1889 10 s > They were listed as day laborers living near the Whites > > Calvin Smith > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Renee Smith [mailto:hrsmith40@msn.com] > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 4:59 PM > To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered > > Charlotte, > Thank you kindly for helping. Shall await word from you (fingers > crossed). > Renee > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: CM7153@aol.com > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 4:57 PM > To: KYCLAY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KYCLAY] Look-ups offered > > In a message dated 7/25/03 5:03:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > hrsmith40@msn.com writes: > > > Charlotte, > > Thank you for the offer. Trying to locate any census records wherein > > > appeared one Harriett POTTER. > > Harriett would be listed under the household of either a William > POTTER or > > George POTTER. She had a daughter named Louise (or Louisa). Harriett > is my > > great, grandma. She was black, and I was told she was likely a slave > at some > > point in time. I am having a grave time of this. Do you know if > anyone has > > any records pertaining to slaves in Manchester? > > Renee > > Renee, > > I will look and get back with you. I don't know anything about slave > records. > > Thanks, > Charlotte Miller > <A > HREF="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Our_Sharing_Place/">http://groups.ya > hoo.com/group/Our_Sharing_Place/</A>

Here are two links I found: <A HREF="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~orphanshome/">Orphans Home Website</A> <A HREF="http://www.poorhousestory.com/poorhouses_in_kentucky.htm">Kentucky Poorhouse History</A> If you are unable to click on this, go to www.kygenweb.net, under Ky links and resources look under "orphans,orphanges,and poorhouses" the links are listed there. Hope this helps. Nanette