The current ongoing, sometimes heated, discussion on the list concerning the pros and cons of LDS related genealogy is quite appropriate. There are two things that were distracting. I might make a suggestion. The phrase "HORSE CRAP" can be translated from its east central Kentucky dialect to the more tactful "nonsense". (Besides, there are far more bulls in Bath County than horses.) Another way to say "liar" could be "perhaps could you be wrong". This could be a problem since we Kentuckians can't speak sentences containing more than four words. In answer to the question from California, Linda and I are expecting our first grandchild in September. The child will be the 12th generation Sorrell. Jim Sorrell

Congratulations, Jim! By the tone of your message, I know you are as excited as we were when we had our first Grandchild! You are in for a wonderful experience! Enjoy! Jan Lund genhelp@worldnet.att.net

In a message dated 3/8/2002 11:09:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, SMARCMAR@aol.com writes: > too was told that the LDS took the earliest court > records. I received this information when I went to the Bath Co. > courthouse > and tried to find the earliest records. Are you talking about the early marriage books or court records? I wasn't aware there were any court documents missing---except for the ones lodged at Kentucky Archives. Orginal documents damaged in a fire were to be thrown out when someone from the Historical Society showed up... that is what I was told. Those documents are not at Bath County Courthouse---nor have they been indexed. I went through them a few years ago., they are very fragile, water stained and some are even half burned. In the past few years several people have went to the archives to search these files but no one there knew anything about them... in fact I found them listed in a book and when I asked at the desk no one knew where they were or what they were -----but they did find them. Now the marriage books are a different story. The story I was told was it was a local genealogist that "lost" them and not the LDS... in fact I was under the impression they actually knew where they were.

Johnny Mack, I am NOT a liar and I don't appreciate being referred to as one and I am definitely NOT a male. I am a Christian lady in every aspect and the last thing this list needs is sarcasm and rudeness. My apology was directed to any I might have offended, which was definitely not my intent. Billie

Wow, I came home from work and there were allot of emails from the Bath Co list. I deleted them all. But, I would like to point out that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone basis those opinions on experiences they've had. So, what makes it wrong for anyone to state their opinion? That's why America is the country it is. That's why my ancestors fought and died in the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812 and the Civil War, World War One and Two, Korean, Vietnam and on and on. That's why I fly the flag in my front yard everyday. Now, I too have sent folks my data, and this is to folks of all walks of life, not necessarily LDS, only to find it ending up in books these same people then turned around and offered to SELL me LOL ( it ticked me off royally). And no folks, I didn't buy the books :-) YET, I will continue to send folks my info, I will share whatever I have to find more and to help others who seek my lines. My lines too are in the IGI submitted by others but I don't use the IGI. I have looked thru it but the nice helpers made sure I knew it was just other folks research and it didn't make it right OR correct. I prefer doing it the old fashioned way. But, if anyone is looking for WOODARD, HENDRIX, ANDERSON, PERKINS and many others email me!! And on that note before I start singing the National anthem to you all I'm going to go talk to my husband. You all have a great day and good luck with your genealogy!! Donna Gill

....and just who asked you.....??? A lie is a lie.... so his apology was accepted.... we don't need others who don't understand the PRINCIPLE involved. ----- Original Message ----- From: "hunts" <hunts@bracken.ekns.net> To: <KYBATH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:13 PM Subject: [KYBATH] IGI > HELLO ALL > THIS IS A BUNCH OF HORSE CRAP YOU SHOULDNT BASH ON SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH LDS I MEAN MAYBE IT DID HAPPEN THAT WAY WHO ARE YOU (OKIRKMAN OR JOHNNY MACK) TO SAY IT DOESNT OR DIDNT HAPPEN YOU SAY YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE LDS WELL IF THATS THE WAY THE LDS ARE THEN I DEFINATELY DONT WANT TO JOIN THAT CHURCH BUT IM SURE 99.9 % ARENT IM NOT QUESTIONING YOUR RELIGION IM QUESTIONING YOU WERE YOU THERE DID YOU SEE WHAT BILLIE SAW IM GUESSING NO CAN YOU SUBMITT FACTS THAT THIS DIDNT HAPPEN IVE TALKED TO BILLIE AND SHE SEEMS A PRETTY REPUTABLE PERSON TO ME AND IM SURE OTHERS ON THIS LIST I ALSO HAVE ROOTS DEEP IN BATH FLEMING MORGAN AND ROWAN CO'S BUT DOES THAT GIVE ME THE RIGHT TO BASH SOMEONE ON WHAT THEY BELIEVE I THINK NOT CAN YOU PRESENT FACTSTHAT NO ONE PRESENTS FALSE NAMES DATES OR PLACES AS FOR THE CLASSES YOU GAVE I SURE HOPE YOU HAVE A REFUND POLICY AS FOR WHO MADE GENEOLOGY SO POPULAR I CANT ANSWER THAT AS I BELIEVE NOONE ELSE CAN BUT ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO! > MAKE PEOPLE SHY AWAY FROM IT IM SORRY FOR THIS BUT ENOUGH HORSECRAP IS ENOUGH HORSECRAP > > BOBBY HUNT >

IF I OFFENDED ANONE I GIVE MY DEEPEST APOLOGIES IM NOT REAL RELIGIOUS BUT I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE WE ARE ALL HERE FOR THE SAME REASON WE WANT TO KNOW OUR ROOTS WHERE WE CAME FROM WHO OUR ANCESTORS ARE AND TO FIND NEW INFO AND NEW RELATIONS WE NEVER KNEW WE HAD BOBBY HUNT

Folks, lets let this drop. I really am sorry I "voiced" my opinion - guess I should have kept it to myself. I have sent separate emails to Johnny Mack and okirkman explaining in detail the situations I had mentioned in the initial post. Let's get back to "diggin' up roots. Again, if I offended anyone, I truly apologize. Billie

HELLO ALL THIS IS A BUNCH OF HORSE CRAP YOU SHOULDNT BASH ON SOMEONE WHO HAS HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH LDS I MEAN MAYBE IT DID HAPPEN THAT WAY WHO ARE YOU (OKIRKMAN OR JOHNNY MACK) TO SAY IT DOESNT OR DIDNT HAPPEN YOU SAY YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE LDS WELL IF THATS THE WAY THE LDS ARE THEN I DEFINATELY DONT WANT TO JOIN THAT CHURCH BUT IM SURE 99.9 % ARENT IM NOT QUESTIONING YOUR RELIGION IM QUESTIONING YOU WERE YOU THERE DID YOU SEE WHAT BILLIE SAW IM GUESSING NO CAN YOU SUBMITT FACTS THAT THIS DIDNT HAPPEN IVE TALKED TO BILLIE AND SHE SEEMS A PRETTY REPUTABLE PERSON TO ME AND IM SURE OTHERS ON THIS LIST I ALSO HAVE ROOTS DEEP IN BATH FLEMING MORGAN AND ROWAN CO'S BUT DOES THAT GIVE ME THE RIGHT TO BASH SOMEONE ON WHAT THEY BELIEVE I THINK NOT CAN YOU PRESENT FACTSTHAT NO ONE PRESENTS FALSE NAMES DATES OR PLACES AS FOR THE CLASSES YOU GAVE I SURE HOPE YOU HAVE A REFUND POLICY AS FOR WHO MADE GENEOLOGY SO POPULAR I CANT ANSWER THAT AS I BELIEVE NOONE ELSE CAN BUT ITS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO! MAKE PEOPLE SHY AWAY FROM IT IM SORRY FOR THIS BUT ENOUGH HORSECRAP IS ENOUGH HORSECRAP BOBBY HUNT

Johnny, I do not know Billie or you. I do not know either of your characters, but in defense to Billie, I too was told that the LDS took the earliest court records. I received this information when I went to the Bath Co. courthouse and tried to find the earliest records. After driving for 8 hours, I set out on my search for family documents at the courthouse. Upon not finding the books I was looking for, I asked for help from a worker in the Clerk's office. I was told the LDS took the records to microfilm them and never brought them back. Maybe they did not "steal" them, but they sure are taking a long time copying or indexing them! Also, I did go to the Library and there was no index there either. Besides, what good is an index when there are no document books to look at. A similar situation happened to me in Wilkinson Co., MS. I had just found information I needed, when the document books were pulled for the LDS. I was not given time to get copies of what I needed. That trip was about 17 hours one way. Shawn Martin Shawn Martin

Question: You say that you have been a member of the LDS church for 30 years. Are you defending the quality of various research material or are you defending the church? You seem to equate the one with the other and that definitely WAS NOT the intent of the post. It is possible to question one without questioning the other. Perhaps YOU are the one that needs to lighten up!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "MIDIguru" <souderj@mindspring.com> To: <KYBATH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [KYBATH] LDS > NO Ma'am.... you did NOT.... you did not establish FACT.... only > innuendo and accusations.... > > > Johnny Mack > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Billie Hunt" <bhunt@ycnx.net> > To: <KYBATH-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 7:53 PM > Subject: [KYBATH] LDS > > > > If I offended anyone with my prior email I apologize but after 3 bad > > instances with LDS, I refuse to darken their door again. I am not > accusing > > them - I only state fact. > > > > > >

If I offended anyone with my prior email I apologize but after 3 bad instances with LDS, I refuse to darken their door again. I am not accusing them - I only state fact.

NO Ma'am.... you did NOT.... you did not establish FACT.... only innuendo and accusations.... Johnny Mack ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billie Hunt" <bhunt@ycnx.net> To: <KYBATH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 7:53 PM Subject: [KYBATH] LDS > If I offended anyone with my prior email I apologize but after 3 bad > instances with LDS, I refuse to darken their door again. I am not accusing > them - I only state fact. > >

Dear Billie, Please see my comments injected below........... <sigh> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billie Hunt" <bhunt@ycnx.net> To: <KYBATH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 6:54 PM Subject: [KYBATH] LDS > I guess I will put my two cents worth in here. A few years back I obtained > the name and address of a LDS researcher who had submitted data on a line of > my family that I had been trying to locate for a long time. I wrote the > submitter and as always sent all data on my direct line to the branch he had > submitted. I ask him to let me know the documentation that supported his > research - not only did it take him 9 months to write back but he never said > one word about that branch of my family and I later found out that he took > every bit of the data I had sent him and submitted to LDS as his own > research. Billie.... you are an experienced library worker.... so I know that you know that these kinds of things happen all the time.... they may not be right.... but when you share your work with others that you don't really know these things can happen.... it has even happened to ME...!! I hope you're not suggesting this man was a member of the LDS Church.... that would be a false accusation since you do not know that!! > I have also been told by a very reliable source that LDS > researchers make up names in a lineage just so there is something on file. Well, let ME be your other "very reliable source".... I have been an active member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for over 30 years. I joined in Morehead when I was 21 years old. Many members are on this listserver as well as the Rowan Co. listserver. I have also been one of those teachers of genealogy classes and instructor on how to use the LDS library resourses and I'll assure you that no one, on purpose, makes up, falsifies, or in any other way "doctors" data. It is contrary to the very core of our belief and our reasons for doing research. Many, many people spend years researching and painstakingly searching for records and precise sources. I think your statement is defamitory and that you should be more careful. The LDS Church came through Kentucky, as they did in many other states, and at their own expense, microfilmed ALL the records they could get and THEN gave a copy to all the local libraries and colleges. If it wasn't for their indexing and archiving.... where would many researchers be today?? Who do think started making genealogy so popular? Nuff said! > Another LDS researcher was the last person seen to have some of the old > marriage books belonging to Bath COunty which disappeared from the court > house. My shadow will never darken the door of an LDS library again and I > would never use any of the information that came from them. my, my Billie... that is a big step.... so rash... and a big INUENDO at that.... so unbecoming of you!! ...so the last person seen.... is by default... the person who STOLE some records... hmmm.... It's statements like that that start bad rumors and bad feelings. I'm not sure I'm ever going to have the same opinion of you that I had yesterday and in the past. Please don't poison others by making such rash and illogical statements. > > Billie Hunt > bhunt@ycnx.net > Have a good day Billie and please, please be a little more discriminating in your choice of words. I for one am very offended by your generalizations and stray conclusions!! Johnny Mack Souder from Morehead, Ky... with deep roots in Bath County, Rowan Co. and Morgan Co. Johnny Mack Souder souderj@mindspring.com ICQ #17300362 _________________ Souder/ Bennett/ Wainscott/ Wright/ Richardson Clifton/ Scudder/ Lancaster (Owen & Madison Co., Ky) _________________ McKinney/ Bailey/ Cassity/ Williams/ Wilson/ Owen/ Archer Hasty/ Carter/ Chastain/ Gill/ Murdock/ Richards/ Grant/ Ammon (Rowan, Bath, Morgan, Montgomery, Lincoln, & Clark Co.'s.) _________________ ..."I shall be telling this with a sigh somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference" Robert Frost

I guess I will put my two cents worth in here. A few years back I obtained the name and address of a LDS researcher who had submitted data on a line of my family that I had been trying to locate for a long time. I wrote the submitter and as always sent all data on my direct line to the branch he had submitted. I ask him to let me know the documentation that supported his research - not only did it take him 9 months to write back but he never said one word about that branch of my family and I later found out that he took every bit of the data I had sent him and submitted to LDS as his own research. I have also been told by a very reliable source that LDS researchers make up names in a lineage just so there is something on file. Another LDS researcher was the last person seen to have some of the old marriage books belonging to Bath COunty which disappeared from the court house. My shadow will never darken the door of an LDS library again and I would never use any of the information that came from them. Billie Hunt bhunt@ycnx.net

Billie, I take great distress to your email. Any one can input names and not everyone is LDS. I am and I take great care to have orginial sources for my information. Many volunteers have spent millions of hours extracting orginal records so everyone can have access to them and the 1880 every name index done by volunteers has helped many many people find their family members. Maybe the person was LDS and maybe not, but you should not judge all people by one and I have NEVER heard of anyone making up names!!! Just like all records submitted by individual on the internet, rootsweb, ancestral file, everyone is told to use it as a tool to check and use resources. Grow up. I will now unsubscribe to this list. Orita ----- Original Message ----- From: "Billie Hunt" <bhunt@ycnx.net> To: <KYBATH-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 6:54 PM Subject: [KYBATH] LDS > I guess I will put my two cents worth in here. A few years back I obtained > the name and address of a LDS researcher who had submitted data on a line of > my family that I had been trying to locate for a long time. I wrote the > submitter and as always sent all data on my direct line to the branch he had > submitted. I ask him to let me know the documentation that supported his > research - not only did it take him 9 months to write back but he never said > one word about that branch of my family and I later found out that he took > every bit of the data I had sent him and submitted to LDS as his own > research. I have also been told by a very reliable source that LDS > researchers make up names in a lineage just so there is something on file. > Another LDS researcher was the last person seen to have some of the old > marriage books belonging to Bath COunty which disappeared from the court > house. My shadow will never darken the door of an LDS library again and I > would never use any of the information that came from them. > > Billie Hunt > bhunt@ycnx.net > >

You were close...<grin> The IGI is an index /compilation of all the names that have been submitted to the LDS Temples and "had the work done". The Ancestral File is a similiar index and compilation of NAMES submitted to the LDS Church but that HAS NOT BEEN proven to be correct. There are many mistakes in the Ancestral file database. Use it with caution... anyone can send in their "research" and then it is made available to anyone who chooses to use it. It also tells you submitted the work so that you can contact them and collaborate. Each LDS Ward (Church building) has a room set aside as a Genealogy room where you can view this information on CD roms. You can also go to www.familysearch.com and view this information online. Search features are available as well as other databases such as the Social Security Death Index and others. Hope this helps!! Johnny Mack Souder URMOSER@aol.com wrote: > I'm sorry!! I thought everyone knew what IGI was. I forget there are newbies to genealogy on these sites. It is an index from the LDS, oops! Latter Day Saints in Utah. People send in their group sheets and they are indexed and Mr. Wallis has found a way to look at them on-line. If someone has a better explanation please feel free to add to this. International Genealogical Index. Or if I made a mistake, please correct me. Jane

I'm sorry!! I thought everyone knew what IGI was. I forget there are newbies to genealogy on these sites. It is an index from the LDS, oops! Latter Day Saints in Utah. People send in their group sheets and they are indexed and Mr. Wallis has found a way to look at them on-line. If someone has a better explanation please feel free to add to this. International Genealogical Index. Or if I made a mistake, please correct me. Jane

This address came from a Missouri list I am on. It is great! http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm If I sent this before, please forgive me. I have senior moments often. Jane

I have a Mary Ann BAILEY, who was born in about 1824-1825 in Bath County, Kentucky, to unknown parents. She married James C. SORRELL in Bath County on June 22, 1848. She then married Madison HOWARD on May 20, 1866, in Atlanta, Logan County, Illinois, after James SORRELL died in the Civil War in Little Rock, Arkansas, in 1863. Mary Ann died in Logan County, Illinois, on February 17, 1885. Any connections to your BAILEY's from Bath County, KY? Thanks! Kevin Miller