We used the same pronunciation for our Texas Kornegay family also. Grace Texas -----Original Message----- From: kornegay-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kornegay-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Margie L Lawrence Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 6:57 PM To: KORNEGAY@rootsweb.com Subject: [KORNEGAY] Kornegay In Texas the name Kornegay is pronounced as Korn=ne=gee. I remember when we were in Mississippi doing research I was corrected how we pronounced the name. I was told that was wrong but in Texas that is how the family said the name. I suppose where you live makes a difference. Margie Texas ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In my branch it was Conagee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie L Lawrence" <marlaw117@comcast.net> To: KORNEGAY@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 4:56:40 PM Subject: [KORNEGAY] Kornegay In Texas the name Kornegay is pronounced as Korn=ne=gee. I remember when we were in Mississippi doing research I was corrected how we pronounced the name. I was told that was wrong but in Texas that is how the family said the name. I suppose where you live makes a difference. Margie Texas ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Patty, Yes, I have Dr Cobbs speech also and I'm aware he said they came in 1710. However, because I've also seen claims they came in 1708, 1709, 1710, etc. etc. I tried to stay focused on the documents, especially regarding the date they came, and NOT on claims found in various publications 200 years later. And the NC petition documents that George signed clearly states they came in 1709. To re-iterate I think the Julian Calendar used at this time is the culprit....and I've seen other situations although it started out with someone plainly stating the double date....example 1709/10 and then later see it quoted as only 1710??!! ~Kathlynn~ ____________________________________ From: Pattyca103@aol.com Reply-to: kornegay@rootsweb.com To: kornegay@rootsweb.com Sent: 7/22/2013 7:57:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time Subj: Re: [KORNEGAY] IsThisJohnKrenigFamilyOurImmigrantAncestors/fatherOfGeorgeKorn... First about the date. In 1929 Dr. Colier Cobb of the Uni. of NC gave a very interesting speech to the Annual Meeting of The Descendants of the Palatines which was started in 1914. Anyway, Dr. Cobb gave a very interesting and indepth history of the Palentines from 945 to the ones who came with DeGraffenried. He said"In England, these people lived in tents from the early summer of 1709 until they sailed in mild weather in January, 1710".

Margie I have heard that the KORNEGAY name is pronounced Korn=ne=gee also Korn-nag-ee I am from MS but from what I had heard I knew that they didn't pronounce it like Carnagie, they put a little twist on it. Pat In a message dated 7/22/2013 7:58:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, marlaw117@comcast.net writes: In Texas the name Kornegay is pronounced as Korn=ne=gee. I remember when we were in Mississippi doing research I was corrected how we pronounced the name. I was told that was wrong but in Texas that is how the family said the name. I suppose where you live makes a difference. Margie Texas ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We say "KOR'-na-gee" My parents are from Central Texas and I grew up in DFW Kathy Kornegay Chruscielski -----Original Message----- From: kornegay-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kornegay-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathlynn3@aol.com Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 7:36 PM To: kornegay@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KORNEGAY] Kornegay Well, in Arkansas we pronounce it [or better said: mis-pronounce it] Kor-knee'-gee. And I know of one Kornegay family currently in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Texas area, that pronounces their name Kor-na- gay' ...which seems more correct than the AR way! In a message dated 7/22/2013 7:14:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jhkornegay@fisherpark.com writes: We, here in the piedmont of North Carolina, pronounce it the same way. On Monday, July 22, 2013, Margie L Lawrence wrote: > In Texas the name Kornegay is pronounced as Korn=ne=gee. I remember > when we were in Mississippi doing research I was corrected how we > pronounced the > name. I was told that was wrong but in Texas that is how the family > said the name. I suppose where you live makes a difference. > Margie > Texas > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just a couple of comments. I may add it is so good to see all of the researchers interacting again. First about the date. In 1929 Dr. Colier Cobb of the Uni. of NC gave a very interesting speech to the Annual Meeting of The Descendants of the Palatines which was started in 1914. Anyway, Dr. Cobb gave a very interesting and indepth history of the Palentines from 945 to the ones who came with DeGraffenried. He said"In England, these people lived in tents from the early summer of 1709 until they sailed in mild weather in January, 1710". He told that DeGraffenreid received five and a half pounds a piece for the 650 Palatines. He was not able to travel with them but he appointed 3 directors, notables from NC then in London, one of them a LAWSON, he said that the contract that DeGraffenreid made was still in existance. I think I read that they came on 3 ships. Dr. Cobb said, and he quotes, " In the group then were French Protestants from Guienne and from Gascony. a few French Swiss, German Swiss, and Germans from beyond the Palantinate. He goes on to tell the interesting story of John Martin FRANCKE a young German who evidently met and fell in love with Sevil MULLER on the way and changed his destination from Boston to New Bern. Dr. Cobb said she was the daughter of Jacob and Katherine MULLER, who came with their children to New Bern from the Palatinate in 1710". I have not done much at all on the FISHER Family but in my FISHER notes I have that Mary FISHER was born ca 1700 and married George KORNEGAY ca 1729 and died ca 1759. From: Winter 1969 Issue of North Carolina Genealogy: NC Council Minutes, & Wills & Invs., 1677-1701 p. 167-Power of Attorney- 14 of 11 mo. 1683- George FISHER of Albemarle Co., Marriner, to Thomas SYMONS of same. Proven Pascotank Pct. Cpurt 1691. p. 169-Re: merchandise shipped by Thos. HARVEY to Island of Barbados. Signed: George FICHER m 1690/91 (could be misprint for FISHER) 20 Dec 1749 Thomas SMITH a planter made his will in Craven Co NC. Witness of this will was Jacob MILLER, George (X) KORNEGAY, George FISHER. 31 Mar 1747 Will of Randolph (X) FISHER-Craven Co NC O,primis: TO my well beloved son Thomas FISHER 1 Negro man named Sam & 1 Negroe Woman named Bell and 1 feather Bed furniture & 2 iron pots 1 large the other small &Cract.4 puter Basones. 2 puter Dishes & 8 puter plates, 1 iorn Skillit, F13:15 in current Cash or the Valley(value?wph)in this provience Bills. Item: To my well beloved son George FISHER 4 young Negroes namely Toney, Tom & Sambo & Sorey also all of my ready money Goods Chattles Debts & c. after my Debts & Legacy payd. EXR. Son George FISHER.. Wit George GRAHAM, Tom MATCHETT. Richard BATH. Craven Co Ct. at New Bern 3d Tues Jun 1751. Proved by George GRAHAM Lres,Granted issued 15 Jul 1751. There was a William FISHER in Carteret Co NC. In a message dated 7/22/2013 7:20:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Kathlynn3@aol.com writes: Thanks Matt, I can always depend on you to give us valuable information about the spelling and pronunciation in German and English. NOTE you said: they came in 1708....CORRECTION THEY DEPARTED England Jan. 1709.....I think you probably just inadvertently hit the wrong key and I'm only mentioning it in order to eliminate any possibility of an incorrect date being carried forth, we have enough of that already......KWIM? LOL! In a message dated 7/22/2013 3:25:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mward39@bellsouth.net writes: Someone in the group found a listing for a family that came with the Baron von Graffenreid's colony in 1708 that was listed as Krenig. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, in Arkansas we pronounce it [or better said: mis-pronounce it] Kor-knee'-gee. And I know of one Kornegay family currently in the Dallas/Ft. Worth Texas area, that pronounces their name Kor-na- gay' ...which seems more correct than the AR way! In a message dated 7/22/2013 7:14:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jhkornegay@fisherpark.com writes: We, here in the piedmont of North Carolina, pronounce it the same way. On Monday, July 22, 2013, Margie L Lawrence wrote: > In Texas the name Kornegay is pronounced as Korn=ne=gee. I remember when > we were in Mississippi doing research I was corrected how we pronounced the > name. I was told that was wrong but in Texas that is how the family said > the name. I suppose where you live makes a difference. > Margie > Texas >

We, here in the piedmont of North Carolina, pronounce it the same way. On Monday, July 22, 2013, Margie L Lawrence wrote: > In Texas the name Kornegay is pronounced as Korn=ne=gee. I remember when > we were in Mississippi doing research I was corrected how we pronounced the > name. I was told that was wrong but in Texas that is how the family said > the name. I suppose where you live makes a difference. > Margie > Texas > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com <javascript:;> with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- *John H. Kornegay* Attorney At Law 314 N Church St Greensboro, NC 27401 (V) (336) 478-3268 (F) (336) 370-1789 jhkornegay@fisherpark.com www.johnhkornegaylaw.com <http://www.johnhkornegayattorneyatlaw.com/> *IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE:* Any tax advice contained in the body of this e-mail (or in any attachment) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by the recipient for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions. If you would like to receive written advice in a format that complies with IRS rules and that may be relied upon to avoid penalties, please contact the author of this e-mail*.*

Or perhaps I was thinking of when Graffenreid first recruited the initial participants of the colony in Switzerland. Matt -------------------------------------------------- From: <Kathlynn3@aol.com> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 6:20 PM To: <kornegay@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [KORNEGAY]IsThisJohnKrenigFamilyOurImmigrantAncestors/fatherOfGeorgeKorn... > Thanks Matt, I can always depend on you to give us valuable information > about the spelling and pronunciation in German and English. > > NOTE you said: they came in 1708....CORRECTION THEY DEPARTED England Jan. > 1709.....I think you probably just inadvertently hit the wrong key and > I'm > only mentioning it in order to eliminate any possibility of an incorrect > date being carried forth, we have enough of that already......KWIM? LOL! > > > In a message dated 7/22/2013 3:25:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > mward39@bellsouth.net writes: > > Someone in the group found a listing for a family that came with > the Baron von Graffenreid's colony in 1708 that was listed as Krenig. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Matt, I can always depend on you to give us valuable information about the spelling and pronunciation in German and English. NOTE you said: they came in 1708....CORRECTION THEY DEPARTED England Jan. 1709.....I think you probably just inadvertently hit the wrong key and I'm only mentioning it in order to eliminate any possibility of an incorrect date being carried forth, we have enough of that already......KWIM? LOL! In a message dated 7/22/2013 3:25:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mward39@bellsouth.net writes: Someone in the group found a listing for a family that came with the Baron von Graffenreid's colony in 1708 that was listed as Krenig.

In Texas the name Kornegay is pronounced as Korn=ne=gee. I remember when we were in Mississippi doing research I was corrected how we pronounced the name. I was told that was wrong but in Texas that is how the family said the name. I suppose where you live makes a difference. Margie Texas

helpful to see in one spot. Has peaked my interest. Sheila Butler -----Original Message----- From: Matt Ward <mward39@bellsouth.net> To: kornegay <kornegay@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Jul 22, 2013 4:25 pm Subject: Re: [KORNEGAY] IsThisJohnKrenigFamilyOurImmigrantAncestors/fatherOfGeorgeKornegay+Discernment: I have a theory that the "gay" ending may have come about by listening to the German speaking immigrant say his family name in the plural. Here is a Q & A between me and a native German speaking friend: On Jul 13, 2013, at 17:07, "Matt Ward" <mward39@bellsouth.net> wrote: Stefan, you are my German expert. Our genealogical group on the internet is discussing the likely surname that we believe got corrupted into "Kornegay". Even though it is spelled as you see it, it is pronounced like Kenege. (Kuh NEE ghee). Someone in the group found a listing for a family that came with the Baron von Graffenreid's colony in 1708 that was listed as Krenig. The baron brought both poor Palatines from the Palatinate of Germany and Swiss immigrants (most likely German speaking Swiss). I was wondering what a German speaker would say if they were telling the record keeper their family name and pluralized it like I might say "We are the Wards." What would be the German pluralization of Krenig? Could it be Krenige? (Which would sound an awful lot like Kuh Nee ghee.) Matt Hello Matt & greetings from Chicago! I'm thinking about examples that would be similar to the hypothesized pluralization. It sounds very plausible in general. I'm thinking about all the family names I know and how we would colloquially or in dialect refer to them in plural. It could also be the this might be the genitive case, i.e. of the Krenig family, as in "die/der Krenige(r) Kinder" or "der Kreniger Hof". Also, "die Krenigere or die Krenige" could stand for, "she who is from the Krenig family or from the Krenig farm." Another example would be the plural of "Fremdling". We would often refer to them in plural as the "Fremdlinge", which is a the same time a pun on the original meaning of the name. Let me think about the a bit more. Stefan -------------------------------------------------- From: <Kathlynn3@aol.com> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 12:25 PM To: <kornegay@rootsweb.com> Subject: [KORNEGAY]IsThisJohnKrenigFamilyOurImmigrantAncestors/fatherOfGeorgeKornegay+Discernment: > After sending this personally to those who ask for it, I decided to send > to > list for review and ask for corrections/additions/opinion? It's lengthy > and I realize sometime redundant because I tried to "dot every i and cross > every t."...... Hope it's not to lengthy for rootsweb to accept. > > WORKING NOTES for immigrant ancestor family of George Kornegay, compiled, > 2008-2013, by descendant Kathlynn SIMPSON Arledge-Johnson. > > PREFACE [CAVEAT]: John George Hornigh family was previously believed > to be our ancestor family, however current research has PROVED they are > NOT OUR immigrant ANCESTORS. This family WENT from the Palatinate in > Germany > to London, England and then TO IRELAND and has many proven descendants in > Ireland where the surname is aka as Hornich: Document preserved in the > British Museum Library, London, England, Board of Trade, Misc., Vol 2 - > Page > 57. 6 May 1709 - A list of all the poor Germans lately come over from the > Palatinate into this Kingdom Tolsen in St. Catherine's. Hornigh, John > George, > age 38 years, wife, 2 sons age 8 and 2, and 2 daughters age 12 and 10, > member of Reformed Church, Husbandman and Wine dresser. > Extensive research in Germany and Switzerland produced no document that > will prove without doubt who our immigrant ancestors are, and probably > never > will, based on the fact that documents were destroyed during the > centuries > of ongoing wars, religious upheaval, destruction and other horrifically > devastating situations that took place during this time frame. > Although research has been ongoing it is a very difficult task to search > for the family of our George Kornegay because there is no one specific > surname spelling to search for based on the fact his surname is found > spelled so > many different ways on the earlier North Carolina documents [see entered > below]. > Some researchers have continuously said, throughout the years, they > believe our ancestor family [and Jacob Miller family] could be Swiss from > Switzerland and were with Graffenried's second group that departed > Switzerland > July 1710, and the originally Swiss surname for Kornegay starts with "G" > i.e., Gnaegi, Gnegy, Gnagi, Gnecki, Gnage, etc...vs...German surnames > starting > with "K" i.e., Knege, Kenege, Knag, Knegi, Knecky, Kinige in addition to > the other variations. However, I have never understood why this was ever > considered a possibility based on the fact we always had North Carolina > documents [see below] for both, our ancestor George and Jacob Miller and > many > others in North Carolina, purporting to be Palatines and they came with > Graffenried in 1709. And now we have the following documents which > clearly > identifies them as Palatines from the Palatinate when they arrived in > London, > England on 11 June 1709. And from other sources we know they departed > England > in Jan. 1709. [NOTE the Julian Calendar was in use at this time and a > year > was from March 25 to March 25 which means 1st. group arrived in England > on > June 11, 1709 departed with Baron Christoph von Graffenried seven months > later, January 1709, and six months later, in July 1710, 2nd group > departed > with him from Switzerland. CONCLUSION: in my humble opinion any > speculations that they were Swiss from Switzerland can now be totally > eliminated, i.e. > until proven otherwise. > ................end of preface................. > > CURRENTLY I believe OUR GERMAN PALATINE IMMIGRANT ANCESTOR FAMILY FROM > THE > PALATINATE IN GERMANY is [possibly]: John Krenig born 1669, wife name and > age unknown, and in 1709 they had one daughter name unknown born 1698 and > one son born 1703 [source: Document 1 below]. Of course this is not the > proof one prefers to have, however the following CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE > seem > to lend credence to this possibility. NOTE all following statements are > based on documents below or in each said individuals notes section: > 1. John Krenig family is the only one found on this specific list of > Palatines with the surname that is any where close to the spelling found > later > on documents in North Carolina for George including but not limited to: > Knege, Kenege, Kernagy, Kernegy, Kneegee, Knigge, Kornagy, Kornegee, > Korneagy, Korneghke, Hernegay, Renegee, Corneque, and various other > spellings....before it finally became the Anglicized Kornegay spelling > many years later. > a. And on this same list with John Krenig, is Jacob Mueller, Peter > Fischer, George Kurtz [to be addressed in more detail below], and they or > their > descendants are all found later on North Carolina documents purporting to > be Palatines. Which means they left Germany together, arrived in England > together, departed from England together and arrived in North Carolina > together, and this may indicate they knew each other in Germany because > they were > all in the same business, or perhaps they were all close friends and > neighbors. > b. John Krenig's 6 year old son [born 1703] does fit to be George > Kornegay. > c. George named his first son John which could mean he was named after > his grandfather John Krenig which does fit the 18th Century German Naming > Customs that was customarily used during this time frame i.e., first born > son > named after father's father. > d. Plus, descendant/researchers Patricia Brown Hoffman, has constantly > stated throughout the years "One researcher unknown, at present, feels > that > from the study of passengers, 6,520 in all, has concluded that JOHN > KRENIG, > age 40 with wife, son age 6 and daughter age 11 is our ancestor" ... "I > never really felt that we belonged to the John HORNICH Family and I have > always felt good about the possibility of John KRENIG being our man, I > also > think there is a good possibility that we are going to turn out to be > SWISS > rather than GERMAN? I have nothing concrete to base this on, just a > hunch." > ... "I have also seen claims that Jacob Mueller is SWISS." > e. And, on 8-1-2011 after finding John Krenig on 3-16-2008, while > browsing thru my hard copies I discover [or re-discovered] that my TN > cousin, > Tabitha *Francis* Ward Waller also has this same John Krenig family as > our > immigrant ancestors. I could not believe I've had her family history > records > on group sheets [but this said document was not included] for 20+ years > and > had this on my manually kept genealogy records and apparently forgot > about > it later when I went to computer and blindly accepted the claim > circulating in cyberspace at the time that John George Hornigh was our > Immigrant > ancestor and now it appears that I accepted that as fact and just tucked > poor > John Krenig away and totally forgot about having him on my older records > from the get-go. It is very interesting that Francis has the exact same > information as stated on the list I found except she has: "Johan Krenig > [instead > of John] was born in the Upper Palatinate region of the Rhine Valley in > Germany [instead of just Palatinate in Germany, i.e, nothing about Upper > region of the Rhine Valley]. Wish I knew where Francis got this extra > bit of > information? [f] Conversely, there is one slight KICKER [or reason to > doubt]: John Krenig had only one son in 1709, and in 1711 it's apparent > George > had a brother...based on Graffenried's account while in captivity Sept. > 1711, on page 270-271: "The very same Indian with whom I lodged brought a > young > boy with him, one of my tenants" ... "Weeping bitterly this little fellow > told me that his father, mother, brother, yes, the whole family had been > massacred by this very same Indian." This "young boy-little fellow" is > also > believed to be our George Kornegay based on document stating he was > captured and held hostage by these Indians, until later rescued by the NC > Militia. > CONCLUSION: the only way it would fit for John Krenig family to be the > family of George Kornegay is to *assume* John had another son born after > June > 11,1709 [arrival in England] and Sept. 22, 1711 [Indian Massacre in > NC].....and that is certainly possible. > f. Plus: 3/16/2008 Matt writes: Kathlynn, this [John Krenig family] > looks like a very promising lead. I can't find anything within it to rule > it > out or even cast doubt on its possibility.....3/17/08 Sheila Lawrence > writes: I think this [John Krenig] is a very good lead, its better than > anything > else we have. I did a quick search and there is a mention of a ships > list, > but was lost in the early 1800's and no other list has been found. I did > an > extensive search on this at one time, even contacting a Navy dive expert > who specialized in wrecks in and around the Virginia area. I followed up > on > the pirate ship angle looking for a clue as to what French ships were > known > to be haunting the area during the time they landed, nothing. For some > reason there are not records of ships during that time in that area. > There are > articles that are lost to time and these are proving to be our wall to > traverse in finding our ancestors across the sea.....3/18/2008 Kathy > Kornegay > Chruscielski writes: Kathlynn, This is all very exciting about the > possible > Krenig connection! You are an admirable researcher, meticulous in your > sources and thorough. Thank you for sharing your gift! > OVERALL CONCLUSION: Even if it is later proven John Krenig family is NOT > our ancestor family....based on North Carolina documents it is without > doubt > that our ancestors, George Kornegay and his parents [regardless of the > name or the spelling of the surname] were German Palatines from the > Palatinate > in Germany. Although this does not prove their born location, it seems > highly likely that Germany is *probably* the born location of George, and > *possibly* his parents. And I see no reason to doubt John Krenig, Jacob > Mueller, Peter Fischer and their families [and also all of the other on > this > list], ARE, clearly and without doubt, German Palatines from the > Palatinate in > Germany. And I must add another considering factor that Mueller IS > German: > years ago my son, when he was in his teen's, worked for Hans Mueller > owner > of a local German Meet Processing Company in Dallas, TX. Therefore, it > appears to me it can totally be eliminated that our immigrant ancestor > family > OR Jacob Mueller could be Swiss from Switzerland. > > 2. Re: Jacob Miller in NC, I see no reason to doubt he is the same > person as Jacob Mueller on the list, therefore he was born 1659 [NOTE > John > Krenig born 1669] and in 1709 Jacob had wife, name & born date unknown, 1 > daughter born 1695 [which fits to be Sevil] and 1 son born 1703 [same as > our > George Kornegay, assuming he IS son of John Krenig]. > a. And what lends more credence for John Krenig family being our > ancestors is the Aug. 1713 document: Jacob Miller took orphans George > Kornegay > [sic] and George [Cones?] [sic] into his care after all of their family > members were killed in the September 22, 1711 Tuscarora Indian Massacre > [source: > book Kornegay History published by Charles Kornegay]. NOTE Charles states > his notes were taken from 1712-1713 Court Minutes, North Carolina State > Department of Archives and History, Raleigh. It seems apparent Charles > replace > the surname, whatever it was on the original document, with the Kornegay > surname that wasn't even firmly established until years later. I highly > suspect the surname on the document is Kenege based on: "George Kenege > 1733 > petition (as Carnepy); 1740 petitioner (as Connegue); 1747 petitioner. > Present > spelling, Kornegay." [source: Swiss & Palatines to New Bern from New Bern > Craven Co., Library site < http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm >>]. OR Kneegee which is the way it is spelled on this very same document in > different publication I found at the main Downtown Dallas Co. Library. I > will never understand how two different transcriptions for the same > document > could have the surname spelled different, or why anyone would change > anything on the original document. > CONCLUSION: Definitely NEED COPY OF ORIGINAL 1713 DOCUMENT, which appears > to be the first and earliest document, to see the exact spelling of the > surname for orphan George and if it is similar to Krenig. > > 3. Re: George [Cones?], this surname is also spelled many different > ways until it was finally established as Koonce. And it appears he may be > the > son of George Kurtz age 37 [=born 1672], wife, son age 12 [=George Cones > > > Coons > Koonce] born 1697, daughters -0- Lutheran [see document below]. > My > sole purpose for even mentioning this is the fact that Jacob took this > orphan boy in also and it could mean George Kurtz was also a friend or > acquaintance of Jacob Mueller/Miller & Peter Fischer/Fisher in Germany and > then > later in North Carolina which may be another added factor for John Krenig > being our man. > > 4. Re: Peter Fischer, born 1673, and in 1709 had wife, name and age > unknown, sons -0- and 2 daughters age 5 [=born 1704] and 2 [=born 1707]: > a. I think it is highly possible he is the father of Mary Fisher, > based > on dates fit for one of his daughters to be Mary and my best guess she is > the one born 1704. Although there is NO PROOF it seems to be the common > consensus of all researchers that she was the first wife of George > Kornegay. > I think the primary *CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE* for Fisher being her > maiden > name is based on: their only daughter, Mary Kornegay Simmons DeBruhl, > named > her only daughter MARY FISHER DeBRUHL by 2nd. husband, Edward Cornwallis > DeBruhl; their son William Kornegay [Sr] named a son GEORGE FISHER > KORNEGAY > [Sr] and he named a son GEORGE FISHER KORNEGAY [Jr]; Joseph Kornegay > [also > a son of George Fisher Kornegay, Sr.] named a son GEORGE FISHER KORNEGAY, > and there may be others that I am not aware of. Caveat: This discernment > is > based only on documents I have or have ever seen or heard about, and > thereby assuming there was only one immigrant Fisher family in North > Carolina, > thence progenitor of all Fishers. And this is not to say that there may > be > documents for some other Fisher in NC that I do not have which would > change > this whole speculative discernment. And there is a possibility that Mary > could have descended from the John Fisher on Jamestowne Society Qualifying > Ancestors list, via one of his descendants that could have moved at a > later > date to NC. > b. NOTEWORTHY MENTION: Mary Kornegay [daughter of George and Mary] > married 1st. Daniel Simmons, son of John Simmons & Margrett Bussett from > [German speaking] Village of Buchs, Switzerland [undocumented claim from > another > researcher]. Although there are no Simons/Simmons or Buset/Bussett found > on this specific said list taken in England there are North Carolina > documents for a John Simons in 1740, and a John and Daniel Simons and > Abraham > Buset in 1747 and on both documents they are Purporting to be Palatines > or > descendants of Palatines [see document below]. Although, it *could mean* > they > DID come with Graffenried's 2nd group from Switzerland, however, to me > that > doesn't mean they were actually Swiss born in Switzerland, instead it > most > likely means at this time they were Expatriates in Switzerland, i.e., a > person temporarily, or permanently, residing in a country and culture > other > than their birth-upbringing] in Switzerland. And I am basing this last > statement on: "Twenty Thousands of the homeless went to England where they > soon > became a burden and an embarrassment to Queen Anne. Switzerland, as well > as England, was overrun with thousands of refugees from the Palatinate and > from France. At one time nearly every well-to-do family in Switzerland > had > one or more refugees quartered upon it by order of the government." > [Source: > Charles Dewey Kornegay book, page 1]. > c. Now, I've said all of this to reinforce my point, i.e., IF my > overall understanding is correct: Even IF it is determined later that > this John > Krenig family is NOT our immigrant family and a more likely family is > found > that came with Graffenried 2nd group from Switzerland, I believe George > and > his family are none the less GERMAN PALATINES FROM THE PALATINATE [not > Swiss from Switzerland]....based on NC documents for George identifying > his-self as a Palatine. And the same is true for Jacob Mueller/Miller, > and the > all of the others. > d. Re: Randolph Fisher, Craven Co., NC LWT written March 31,1747 - > probated July 15, 1751, I think it is possible, if not probable, that he > is son > of Peter Fischer, thence brother of Mary, and Randolph's two sons, Thomas > & George, are grandsons of Peter Fischer. The only KICKER since Peter > Fischer didn't have a son in 1709 when he was in England and to make this > fit > one would have to assume Randolph was born after 1709 and assuming he was > born about 1710 in NC and was about age 22 when his son Thomas was born > about > 1732 and son George born about 1734, which in turn means Randolph died > about age 41, and left minor sons Thomas about age 19 and George about > age 17. > And then that means George at age 15 was one of the witnesses to the1749 > LWT of Thomas Smith....WHEW! Hope I've said all of this correctly. > Anyway, could this mean that Randolph Fisher is not a son of Peter > Fischer? > e. Re: Peter Fischer's other daughter born 1707, I think it is > possible > she married Thomas Smith whose 1749 Craven Co., NC LWT based on this will > was witnessed by: George Kornegay, George Fisher and Jacob Miller [see > document below]. > THE CONUNDRUMS REMAIN: On the documents I have there are NO > Fischers/Fishers orphans listed and NO Fishers Purporting to be Palatines > or Descendants > of Palatines on any of the other said documents: Could this indicate > Peter > was one of many that died during the voyage, or soon after arrival, or > killed in 1711 Indian massacre and thereby leaving his children, Mary, > unknown > daughter and *maybe* new born baby Randolph in the care of his surviving > wife [name unknown]? > CONCLUSION before any in depth discernment can be made, definitely NEED > COMPLETE COPY OF LWT for Randolph and for Thomas Smith instead of these > extractions with very limited information and MORE DOCUMENTS/DISCERNMENT > for > Thomas & George Fisher and Thomas Smith. > **********end of circumstantial evidence************ > > ENGLAND DOCUMENTS: > 1. John Krenig age 40 Husbandman & Vinedresser, wife, son age 6, > daughter age 11, Reformed Church [source: Palatines from Germany to > England in > 1709 - List taken June 15, 1709 at St. Catherine's [sic] and Debtfore of > poor > German Palatines from the Palatinate who arrived at St Catherin's [sic] > June 11th, 1709-Page 1] > > PREFACE - CAVEAT: [1] March 16, 2008 Kathlynn found the above and all of > the following online: > ttp://www.germanroots.home.att.net/1709palatines ---- > However, 5-20-2013, page not found by using the germanroots URL, but I > finally found same documents at: > http://www.genesearch.com/genealogy-records/1709palatines/ [2] The > following entries were extracted from the hundreds of > unnumbered names on the list of May arrivals and hundreds of different > unnumbered names on the June arrivals. [3] I extracted only the familiar > names of the ones found later on documents in North Carolina purporting > to be > Palatines or descendants of Palatines. [4] I entered the numbers beside > their names just as a reminder to show the order in which they are > listed, > i.e, they are not all listed one after the other. [5] And I also added > the > bracketed information. [6] NOTE strange but true....May arrivals page 1 > list > does not include heading for church affiliation, conversely page 2 > format, > that is continued from page 1, does include church. [7] NOTE preface at > the beginning of each page: "AS WITH ANY TRANSCRIPTON OF OLD RECORDS > THERE > MAY BE ERRORS. YOU SHOULD CONSULT THE ORIGINAL SOURCE. > > 6 MAY 1709 FIRST ARRIVALS: "List of all the poor Germans lately come over > from the Palatinate into this Kingdom taken in St. Catherine's." PAGE 1 - > HUSBANDMAN & VINEDRESSERS [114 total families, 852 total of all men, wives > and children. Unrelated but interesting #18 Valentine Presler age 40, > wife, 3 > sons, 2 daughters. Quote from end of list: "Supposed ancestor of Elvis > Presley & Jimmy Carter"]: > 21. John George Hornigh age 38, wife, 2 sons, 2 daughters [previously > believed to be our ancestor family, later proved HE IS NOT, he went to > Ireland]. > 32. Benedict GNAEDI, age 60 [born 1649], wife, son age 24 [born 1685], > daughter age 25 [born 1684]. > He is the only "G" surname...Swiss? found on this list. Nothing fits, > thence, eliminated as a candidate for the family of our > George Kornegay. However, the surname is similar which begs to > question: [a] Could Benedict be the father to Johan Genedig aka > John > GNAEDIG age 40 [born: 1669] Catholic, carpenter, wife, sons age 11 [born > 1698] & 5 [born 1704], daughter age 1 [born 1708]... [from > Richard > Hite see his complete 11-20-2011 post in rootsweb archives]. [b] Could > Benedict's son born 1685...OR one of the sons of Johan > Genedig/John > GNAEDIG be the John Granade listed on Jan 5, 1747 & July 13, 1747 North > Carolina documents? > 106. Valentine Mueller age 23 single [could he connect to Jacob, > Martin, > Henry, Peter Mueller on the June arrivals?] > PAGE 2 - HUSBANDMAN ONLY [total listed 32], continued from page 1. Quote > from cover page [that was NOT on Pg. 1]: Many of these went to America > see > Palatine Ships To New York in 1710. > 26. John Moor, age 25, single, Ref Church [Adam Moor in NC took > Palatine > orphan Peter Engott age 13] > 27. Austin Moor age 22, single, Ref Church. > 28. John Wm Moor age 18, single, Ref Church > [NO familiar names in next entries: Herdsman, Wheelwright, Smiths, > Saddler, Millers > BAKERS [TOTAL 2]: > 2. Daniel Muller age 50 single Reformed Church > [NO familiar names in next entries: Brewer, Butchers, Cloth & Linen > Weavers]. > TAILORS [total listed 3]: > 3. John Adam Koenig, age 30 single. Ref. Church. > SHOEMAKER [total 5] > 1. John Jacob Mueller age 42, wife, sons age 13-12-10-8-6-4, dau. age > 15, Ref. Church [could he connect to June arrival Jacob Mueller?] > [NO familiar names in next entries: Stocking Weaver, Tanner, Carpenters, > Joiners, Masons, Coopers, Bookbinder, Miner]. > [PAGE 3- continued from page 2. NO familiar names in next entries: > Unmarried Persons, Widows, Etc., Unmarried, Such as Entered their Names > Last] > > 11 JUNE 1709 ARRIVALS: "List of poor Palatines taken 15 June 1709 at St. > Catherine's and Debtford." > PAGE 1 - HUSBANDMEN & VINEDRESSERS [family total 143. NOTE this list > does > not have total of men, wives, children at end of the list] > 5. Jacob Mueller age 50, wife, son age 6, daughter, age 14, Reformed > [Jacob Miller took into his care our orphan George see Aug. 1713 > NC > document. > 50. Martin Mueller age 32, wife, sons age 8-6-5, daughter age 2, > Reformed > 58. George Kurtz age 37, wife, son age 12, daughters -0- Lutheran [could > he be father of NC orphan George Coons> Cones> Koonce that > Jacob Miller also took into his care? > 82. JOHN KRENIG age 40, wife, son age 6, daughter age 11, Reformed [also > listed above as Document 1] > 94. John Lutz age 33, wife, sons age 10-7-3, daughters age 14, Reformed > 120. Peter Fischer age 36, wife, sons -0- daughters age 5-2, Reformed > [could he be father of MARY FISHER, 1st. wife of George > Kornegay?.....dates fit.] > 126. Henry Mueller age 34, wife, sons age 4-3, daughter age 1, Reformed > PAGE 2 - HUSBANDMEN & VINEDRESSERS [continued from page 1]: > 53. Peter Mueller, age 45, wife, sons age 18-6-4, daughters -o- > Catholic > [could Henry and Peter connect to Jacob and the other Muellers?] > Page 3 [continued from page 2]: > [NO familiar names found in next entry: Coopers]. > MASONS [total 7]: > 4. David Moor age 36, wife, sons -o-, daughters -o- Reformed [NOTE > John, > Austin and John Wm. Moor listed above in May arrivals and Adam & > Dannis Moor on NC documents as Palatines]. > [NO familiar names found in next entries: Joiners, Wheelwrights, Smiths, > Linen & Cloth Weavers, Tailors, Schoolmasters, Shoemakers, Bricklayers, > Stocking Weavers, Bakers, Huntsmen, Hatters, Glaziers, Buthcher [sic], > Saddler, > Figuremaker, Locksmith, Brickmaker, Herdsman, Surgeon] > MILLERS [total 10]: > 2. Peter Mueller age 45, wife, sons age 15-14-7, daughters age 19-3, > Reformed [NOTE above Peter Mueller # 53=different Peter] > [NO familiar names found in next entries: Widows, Unmarried Women]. > Kathlynn comments: NOTE surnames both Mueller and Muller...could they be > same surname spelled differently? I'm more inclined to believe they are > totally two different surnames and perhaps unrelated. > **********end of England documents*********** > > NORTH CAROLINA DOCUMENTS: > 1. Aug. 1713 Jacob Miller [Muller] took into his care two orphans and > promised to teach them to read and write, to take care of them until 21 > years of age, and have them taught a carpenter's trade. These orphans > were > George Kornegay and George (Cones?)...[source: book published by Charles > Kornegay]. > [Kathlynn keyed exactly as found. NOTE it appears Charles entered the > much later established Anglo Kornegay spelling. I suspect it was either > Knege > or Kneegee. NEED COPY OF ORIGINAL 1712 - 1713 Court Minutes from North > Carolina State Department of Archives and History, Raleigh, NC....to see > what > the original surname spelling is for George and to see if it is similar > to > Krenig]. > > 2. [1747] Petition to King George II from Persons Identifying > Themselves as Palatines or Descendants of Palatines Presented to the > Council at > Whitehall, London 13 July 1747 [Excerpts from the Petition]...your > Petitioners > being sent Six hundred in Number under the care Of Christopher De > Graffenreid [sic] Baronet ... for peopling and Settling Plantations in > North > Carolina... in the year 1709...arrived in America...North Carolina...in > the year > 1711 Indians broke out against and destroyed several Familys [sic]...Our > Trustee (DeGraffenreid) [sic] was taken by the Indians...then came one > Thomas > Pollock who ruled both Governor and County and acted in the behalf as a > General...sent his Captain William Brice to take all the Dutch that was > able to > bear Arms...as soon as Our Trustee departed (from America in 1712 - CRH) > [sic] Colonel Thomas Pollock came to Our Settlements and took every > thing, > even the millstones and left us without any assistance intirely [sic] > Naked > to the Mercy of the Indians...in the year 1747, the 5th day of January > the > Heir of Colonel Thomas Pollock came to our Plantation to turn us off from > Our Possessions by Virtue of Authority in Order to Settle the Rebels the > Scots in our Possessions, it being in the dead time of winter --- not > knowing > which way to go with our familys'. [sic]. SIGNERS OF THE PETITION, > Purporting to be Palatines or Descendants of Palatine Immigrants: Philip > Fennijer > [sic]. Christian Eslar - Herman Grum - Peter Ender (Ander) [sic] - > Joseph > Perger - Adam Moor - Abraham Buset - Dannis Moor - John Granad - John > Rimer > - Michael Gesbel (used to be Kissible, sic] - Christian Bauer - Peter > Reyel - Michael Riser - Henry Morris - Jacob Eibach - Nicholaus Rimer - > John > Kensey - Andrew Wallis - Henry Gerst - JACOB MILLER - Christian Walker - > Matthias Risenover - John Kinsey (name twice) [sic) - Daniel Tetchey - > Peter > Pellman - Abraham Bauer - [used to be Bowers, sic] - Christian Ganter - > Peter Lots [used to be Luttz=sic] - JOHN SIMONS - DANIEL SIMONS - George > Sneider [sic]- Frederick Merkert - Caspar Rishied - John Letger Miller > [sic] - > GEORGE KENEGE - Simon Kehler - Jacob Huber - John Bernhard Shonewoolf - > Christian Slubbach - Philip Omend - Michael Shelffer [source: Charles > Kornegay > book page 12] > [Kathlynn comments: [1] I keyed exactly as found in Charles Kornegay's > publication, except I capitalized the names of the speicfic ones of > interest. > [2] I have other NC documents that clearly shows all of these said people > are "Purporting to be Palatines or Descendants of Palatines," but the > above > is the only one that includes who they are, where they are from, when and > who they came to NC with]. > > 3. 31 Mar 1747 LWT written-probated 15 July 1751] RANDOLPH (X) > FISHER - > Craven Co NC: Imprimis: To my well beloved SON THOMAS FISHER 1 Negro man > named Sam and 1 negro Woman named Bell and 1 feather Bed furniture & 2 > iron > pots 1 large the other small & Cract, 4 puter Basones. 2 puter Dishes and > 8 > puter plates, 1 iron Skillit, F13:15 in current Cash or the Valley > (value?wph) in this providence Bills. Item: To my well beloved SON GEORGE > FISHER 4 > young Negroes namely, Toney, Tom & Sambo & Sorey. Also all my Ready Money > Goods & Chattles Debts & c. after my Debts & Legacy payd. EXE. SON GEORGE > FISHER. Wit: George Graham, Thos. Matchett, Richard Bath. Craven Co Ct. > at > New Bern 3d Tues Jun 1751 proved by George Graham. Lres, Granted issued > 15 > Jul 1751. > > 4. Dec. 20, 1749 Thomas SMITH a planter made his Will in Craven Co NC. > Witness of this will was JACOB MILLER, GEORGE KORNEGAY, GEORGE FISHER. > [Kathlynn comments: NEED copies of original documents for the last two to > replace these extractions with limited information only, to see if > Randolph > names wife, etc. And documents for Thomas & George Fisher > **********end of North Carolina documents *********** > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have a theory that the "gay" ending may have come about by listening to the German speaking immigrant say his family name in the plural. Here is a Q & A between me and a native German speaking friend: On Jul 13, 2013, at 17:07, "Matt Ward" <mward39@bellsouth.net> wrote: Stefan, you are my German expert. Our genealogical group on the internet is discussing the likely surname that we believe got corrupted into "Kornegay". Even though it is spelled as you see it, it is pronounced like Kenege. (Kuh NEE ghee). Someone in the group found a listing for a family that came with the Baron von Graffenreid's colony in 1708 that was listed as Krenig. The baron brought both poor Palatines from the Palatinate of Germany and Swiss immigrants (most likely German speaking Swiss). I was wondering what a German speaker would say if they were telling the record keeper their family name and pluralized it like I might say "We are the Wards." What would be the German pluralization of Krenig? Could it be Krenige? (Which would sound an awful lot like Kuh Nee ghee.) Matt Hello Matt & greetings from Chicago! I'm thinking about examples that would be similar to the hypothesized pluralization. It sounds very plausible in general. I'm thinking about all the family names I know and how we would colloquially or in dialect refer to them in plural. It could also be the this might be the genitive case, i.e. of the Krenig family, as in "die/der Krenige(r) Kinder" or "der Kreniger Hof". Also, "die Krenigere or die Krenige" could stand for, "she who is from the Krenig family or from the Krenig farm." Another example would be the plural of "Fremdling". We would often refer to them in plural as the "Fremdlinge", which is a the same time a pun on the original meaning of the name. Let me think about the a bit more. Stefan -------------------------------------------------- From: <Kathlynn3@aol.com> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 12:25 PM To: <kornegay@rootsweb.com> Subject: [KORNEGAY]IsThisJohnKrenigFamilyOurImmigrantAncestors/fatherOfGeorgeKornegay+Discernment: > After sending this personally to those who ask for it, I decided to send > to > list for review and ask for corrections/additions/opinion? It's lengthy > and I realize sometime redundant because I tried to "dot every i and cross > every t."...... Hope it's not to lengthy for rootsweb to accept. > > WORKING NOTES for immigrant ancestor family of George Kornegay, compiled, > 2008-2013, by descendant Kathlynn SIMPSON Arledge-Johnson. > > PREFACE [CAVEAT]: John George Hornigh family was previously believed > to be our ancestor family, however current research has PROVED they are > NOT OUR immigrant ANCESTORS. This family WENT from the Palatinate in > Germany > to London, England and then TO IRELAND and has many proven descendants in > Ireland where the surname is aka as Hornich: Document preserved in the > British Museum Library, London, England, Board of Trade, Misc., Vol 2 - > Page > 57. 6 May 1709 - A list of all the poor Germans lately come over from the > Palatinate into this Kingdom Tolsen in St. Catherine's. Hornigh, John > George, > age 38 years, wife, 2 sons age 8 and 2, and 2 daughters age 12 and 10, > member of Reformed Church, Husbandman and Wine dresser. > Extensive research in Germany and Switzerland produced no document that > will prove without doubt who our immigrant ancestors are, and probably > never > will, based on the fact that documents were destroyed during the > centuries > of ongoing wars, religious upheaval, destruction and other horrifically > devastating situations that took place during this time frame. > Although research has been ongoing it is a very difficult task to search > for the family of our George Kornegay because there is no one specific > surname spelling to search for based on the fact his surname is found > spelled so > many different ways on the earlier North Carolina documents [see entered > below]. > Some researchers have continuously said, throughout the years, they > believe our ancestor family [and Jacob Miller family] could be Swiss from > Switzerland and were with Graffenried's second group that departed > Switzerland > July 1710, and the originally Swiss surname for Kornegay starts with "G" > i.e., Gnaegi, Gnegy, Gnagi, Gnecki, Gnage, etc...vs...German surnames > starting > with "K" i.e., Knege, Kenege, Knag, Knegi, Knecky, Kinige in addition to > the other variations. However, I have never understood why this was ever > considered a possibility based on the fact we always had North Carolina > documents [see below] for both, our ancestor George and Jacob Miller and > many > others in North Carolina, purporting to be Palatines and they came with > Graffenried in 1709. And now we have the following documents which > clearly > identifies them as Palatines from the Palatinate when they arrived in > London, > England on 11 June 1709. And from other sources we know they departed > England > in Jan. 1709. [NOTE the Julian Calendar was in use at this time and a > year > was from March 25 to March 25 which means 1st. group arrived in England > on > June 11, 1709 departed with Baron Christoph von Graffenried seven months > later, January 1709, and six months later, in July 1710, 2nd group > departed > with him from Switzerland. CONCLUSION: in my humble opinion any > speculations that they were Swiss from Switzerland can now be totally > eliminated, i.e. > until proven otherwise. > ................end of preface................. > > CURRENTLY I believe OUR GERMAN PALATINE IMMIGRANT ANCESTOR FAMILY FROM > THE > PALATINATE IN GERMANY is [possibly]: John Krenig born 1669, wife name and > age unknown, and in 1709 they had one daughter name unknown born 1698 and > one son born 1703 [source: Document 1 below]. Of course this is not the > proof one prefers to have, however the following CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE > seem > to lend credence to this possibility. NOTE all following statements are > based on documents below or in each said individuals notes section: > 1. John Krenig family is the only one found on this specific list of > Palatines with the surname that is any where close to the spelling found > later > on documents in North Carolina for George including but not limited to: > Knege, Kenege, Kernagy, Kernegy, Kneegee, Knigge, Kornagy, Kornegee, > Korneagy, Korneghke, Hernegay, Renegee, Corneque, and various other > spellings....before it finally became the Anglicized Kornegay spelling > many years later. > a. And on this same list with John Krenig, is Jacob Mueller, Peter > Fischer, George Kurtz [to be addressed in more detail below], and they or > their > descendants are all found later on North Carolina documents purporting to > be Palatines. Which means they left Germany together, arrived in England > together, departed from England together and arrived in North Carolina > together, and this may indicate they knew each other in Germany because > they were > all in the same business, or perhaps they were all close friends and > neighbors. > b. John Krenig's 6 year old son [born 1703] does fit to be George > Kornegay. > c. George named his first son John which could mean he was named after > his grandfather John Krenig which does fit the 18th Century German Naming > Customs that was customarily used during this time frame i.e., first born > son > named after father's father. > d. Plus, descendant/researchers Patricia Brown Hoffman, has constantly > stated throughout the years "One researcher unknown, at present, feels > that > from the study of passengers, 6,520 in all, has concluded that JOHN > KRENIG, > age 40 with wife, son age 6 and daughter age 11 is our ancestor" ... "I > never really felt that we belonged to the John HORNICH Family and I have > always felt good about the possibility of John KRENIG being our man, I > also > think there is a good possibility that we are going to turn out to be > SWISS > rather than GERMAN? I have nothing concrete to base this on, just a > hunch." > ... "I have also seen claims that Jacob Mueller is SWISS." > e. And, on 8-1-2011 after finding John Krenig on 3-16-2008, while > browsing thru my hard copies I discover [or re-discovered] that my TN > cousin, > Tabitha *Francis* Ward Waller also has this same John Krenig family as > our > immigrant ancestors. I could not believe I've had her family history > records > on group sheets [but this said document was not included] for 20+ years > and > had this on my manually kept genealogy records and apparently forgot > about > it later when I went to computer and blindly accepted the claim > circulating in cyberspace at the time that John George Hornigh was our > Immigrant > ancestor and now it appears that I accepted that as fact and just tucked > poor > John Krenig away and totally forgot about having him on my older records > from the get-go. It is very interesting that Francis has the exact same > information as stated on the list I found except she has: "Johan Krenig > [instead > of John] was born in the Upper Palatinate region of the Rhine Valley in > Germany [instead of just Palatinate in Germany, i.e, nothing about Upper > region of the Rhine Valley]. Wish I knew where Francis got this extra > bit of > information? [f] Conversely, there is one slight KICKER [or reason to > doubt]: John Krenig had only one son in 1709, and in 1711 it's apparent > George > had a brother...based on Graffenried's account while in captivity Sept. > 1711, on page 270-271: "The very same Indian with whom I lodged brought a > young > boy with him, one of my tenants" ... "Weeping bitterly this little fellow > told me that his father, mother, brother, yes, the whole family had been > massacred by this very same Indian." This "young boy-little fellow" is > also > believed to be our George Kornegay based on document stating he was > captured and held hostage by these Indians, until later rescued by the NC > Militia. > CONCLUSION: the only way it would fit for John Krenig family to be the > family of George Kornegay is to *assume* John had another son born after > June > 11,1709 [arrival in England] and Sept. 22, 1711 [Indian Massacre in > NC].....and that is certainly possible. > f. Plus: 3/16/2008 Matt writes: Kathlynn, this [John Krenig family] > looks like a very promising lead. I can't find anything within it to rule > it > out or even cast doubt on its possibility.....3/17/08 Sheila Lawrence > writes: I think this [John Krenig] is a very good lead, its better than > anything > else we have. I did a quick search and there is a mention of a ships > list, > but was lost in the early 1800's and no other list has been found. I did > an > extensive search on this at one time, even contacting a Navy dive expert > who specialized in wrecks in and around the Virginia area. I followed up > on > the pirate ship angle looking for a clue as to what French ships were > known > to be haunting the area during the time they landed, nothing. For some > reason there are not records of ships during that time in that area. > There are > articles that are lost to time and these are proving to be our wall to > traverse in finding our ancestors across the sea.....3/18/2008 Kathy > Kornegay > Chruscielski writes: Kathlynn, This is all very exciting about the > possible > Krenig connection! You are an admirable researcher, meticulous in your > sources and thorough. Thank you for sharing your gift! > OVERALL CONCLUSION: Even if it is later proven John Krenig family is NOT > our ancestor family....based on North Carolina documents it is without > doubt > that our ancestors, George Kornegay and his parents [regardless of the > name or the spelling of the surname] were German Palatines from the > Palatinate > in Germany. Although this does not prove their born location, it seems > highly likely that Germany is *probably* the born location of George, and > *possibly* his parents. And I see no reason to doubt John Krenig, Jacob > Mueller, Peter Fischer and their families [and also all of the other on > this > list], ARE, clearly and without doubt, German Palatines from the > Palatinate in > Germany. And I must add another considering factor that Mueller IS > German: > years ago my son, when he was in his teen's, worked for Hans Mueller > owner > of a local German Meet Processing Company in Dallas, TX. Therefore, it > appears to me it can totally be eliminated that our immigrant ancestor > family > OR Jacob Mueller could be Swiss from Switzerland. > > 2. Re: Jacob Miller in NC, I see no reason to doubt he is the same > person as Jacob Mueller on the list, therefore he was born 1659 [NOTE > John > Krenig born 1669] and in 1709 Jacob had wife, name & born date unknown, 1 > daughter born 1695 [which fits to be Sevil] and 1 son born 1703 [same as > our > George Kornegay, assuming he IS son of John Krenig]. > a. And what lends more credence for John Krenig family being our > ancestors is the Aug. 1713 document: Jacob Miller took orphans George > Kornegay > [sic] and George [Cones?] [sic] into his care after all of their family > members were killed in the September 22, 1711 Tuscarora Indian Massacre > [source: > book Kornegay History published by Charles Kornegay]. NOTE Charles states > his notes were taken from 1712-1713 Court Minutes, North Carolina State > Department of Archives and History, Raleigh. It seems apparent Charles > replace > the surname, whatever it was on the original document, with the Kornegay > surname that wasn't even firmly established until years later. I highly > suspect the surname on the document is Kenege based on: "George Kenege > 1733 > petition (as Carnepy); 1740 petitioner (as Connegue); 1747 petitioner. > Present > spelling, Kornegay." [source: Swiss & Palatines to New Bern from New Bern > Craven Co., Library site < http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm >>]. OR Kneegee which is the way it is spelled on this very same document in > different publication I found at the main Downtown Dallas Co. Library. I > will never understand how two different transcriptions for the same > document > could have the surname spelled different, or why anyone would change > anything on the original document. > CONCLUSION: Definitely NEED COPY OF ORIGINAL 1713 DOCUMENT, which appears > to be the first and earliest document, to see the exact spelling of the > surname for orphan George and if it is similar to Krenig. > > 3. Re: George [Cones?], this surname is also spelled many different > ways until it was finally established as Koonce. And it appears he may be > the > son of George Kurtz age 37 [=born 1672], wife, son age 12 [=George Cones > > > Coons > Koonce] born 1697, daughters -0- Lutheran [see document below]. > My > sole purpose for even mentioning this is the fact that Jacob took this > orphan boy in also and it could mean George Kurtz was also a friend or > acquaintance of Jacob Mueller/Miller & Peter Fischer/Fisher in Germany and > then > later in North Carolina which may be another added factor for John Krenig > being our man. > > 4. Re: Peter Fischer, born 1673, and in 1709 had wife, name and age > unknown, sons -0- and 2 daughters age 5 [=born 1704] and 2 [=born 1707]: > a. I think it is highly possible he is the father of Mary Fisher, > based > on dates fit for one of his daughters to be Mary and my best guess she is > the one born 1704. Although there is NO PROOF it seems to be the common > consensus of all researchers that she was the first wife of George > Kornegay. > I think the primary *CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE* for Fisher being her > maiden > name is based on: their only daughter, Mary Kornegay Simmons DeBruhl, > named > her only daughter MARY FISHER DeBRUHL by 2nd. husband, Edward Cornwallis > DeBruhl; their son William Kornegay [Sr] named a son GEORGE FISHER > KORNEGAY > [Sr] and he named a son GEORGE FISHER KORNEGAY [Jr]; Joseph Kornegay > [also > a son of George Fisher Kornegay, Sr.] named a son GEORGE FISHER KORNEGAY, > and there may be others that I am not aware of. Caveat: This discernment > is > based only on documents I have or have ever seen or heard about, and > thereby assuming there was only one immigrant Fisher family in North > Carolina, > thence progenitor of all Fishers. And this is not to say that there may > be > documents for some other Fisher in NC that I do not have which would > change > this whole speculative discernment. And there is a possibility that Mary > could have descended from the John Fisher on Jamestowne Society Qualifying > Ancestors list, via one of his descendants that could have moved at a > later > date to NC. > b. NOTEWORTHY MENTION: Mary Kornegay [daughter of George and Mary] > married 1st. Daniel Simmons, son of John Simmons & Margrett Bussett from > [German speaking] Village of Buchs, Switzerland [undocumented claim from > another > researcher]. Although there are no Simons/Simmons or Buset/Bussett found > on this specific said list taken in England there are North Carolina > documents for a John Simons in 1740, and a John and Daniel Simons and > Abraham > Buset in 1747 and on both documents they are Purporting to be Palatines > or > descendants of Palatines [see document below]. Although, it *could mean* > they > DID come with Graffenried's 2nd group from Switzerland, however, to me > that > doesn't mean they were actually Swiss born in Switzerland, instead it > most > likely means at this time they were Expatriates in Switzerland, i.e., a > person temporarily, or permanently, residing in a country and culture > other > than their birth-upbringing] in Switzerland. And I am basing this last > statement on: "Twenty Thousands of the homeless went to England where they > soon > became a burden and an embarrassment to Queen Anne. Switzerland, as well > as England, was overrun with thousands of refugees from the Palatinate and > from France. At one time nearly every well-to-do family in Switzerland > had > one or more refugees quartered upon it by order of the government." > [Source: > Charles Dewey Kornegay book, page 1]. > c. Now, I've said all of this to reinforce my point, i.e., IF my > overall understanding is correct: Even IF it is determined later that > this John > Krenig family is NOT our immigrant family and a more likely family is > found > that came with Graffenried 2nd group from Switzerland, I believe George > and > his family are none the less GERMAN PALATINES FROM THE PALATINATE [not > Swiss from Switzerland]....based on NC documents for George identifying > his-self as a Palatine. And the same is true for Jacob Mueller/Miller, > and the > all of the others. > d. Re: Randolph Fisher, Craven Co., NC LWT written March 31,1747 - > probated July 15, 1751, I think it is possible, if not probable, that he > is son > of Peter Fischer, thence brother of Mary, and Randolph's two sons, Thomas > & George, are grandsons of Peter Fischer. The only KICKER since Peter > Fischer didn't have a son in 1709 when he was in England and to make this > fit > one would have to assume Randolph was born after 1709 and assuming he was > born about 1710 in NC and was about age 22 when his son Thomas was born > about > 1732 and son George born about 1734, which in turn means Randolph died > about age 41, and left minor sons Thomas about age 19 and George about > age 17. > And then that means George at age 15 was one of the witnesses to the1749 > LWT of Thomas Smith....WHEW! Hope I've said all of this correctly. > Anyway, could this mean that Randolph Fisher is not a son of Peter > Fischer? > e. Re: Peter Fischer's other daughter born 1707, I think it is > possible > she married Thomas Smith whose 1749 Craven Co., NC LWT based on this will > was witnessed by: George Kornegay, George Fisher and Jacob Miller [see > document below]. > THE CONUNDRUMS REMAIN: On the documents I have there are NO > Fischers/Fishers orphans listed and NO Fishers Purporting to be Palatines > or Descendants > of Palatines on any of the other said documents: Could this indicate > Peter > was one of many that died during the voyage, or soon after arrival, or > killed in 1711 Indian massacre and thereby leaving his children, Mary, > unknown > daughter and *maybe* new born baby Randolph in the care of his surviving > wife [name unknown]? > CONCLUSION before any in depth discernment can be made, definitely NEED > COMPLETE COPY OF LWT for Randolph and for Thomas Smith instead of these > extractions with very limited information and MORE DOCUMENTS/DISCERNMENT > for > Thomas & George Fisher and Thomas Smith. > **********end of circumstantial evidence************ > > ENGLAND DOCUMENTS: > 1. John Krenig age 40 Husbandman & Vinedresser, wife, son age 6, > daughter age 11, Reformed Church [source: Palatines from Germany to > England in > 1709 - List taken June 15, 1709 at St. Catherine's [sic] and Debtfore of > poor > German Palatines from the Palatinate who arrived at St Catherin's [sic] > June 11th, 1709-Page 1] > > PREFACE - CAVEAT: [1] March 16, 2008 Kathlynn found the above and all of > the following online: > ttp://www.germanroots.home.att.net/1709palatines ---- > However, 5-20-2013, page not found by using the germanroots URL, but I > finally found same documents at: > http://www.genesearch.com/genealogy-records/1709palatines/ [2] The > following entries were extracted from the hundreds of > unnumbered names on the list of May arrivals and hundreds of different > unnumbered names on the June arrivals. [3] I extracted only the familiar > names of the ones found later on documents in North Carolina purporting > to be > Palatines or descendants of Palatines. [4] I entered the numbers beside > their names just as a reminder to show the order in which they are > listed, > i.e, they are not all listed one after the other. [5] And I also added > the > bracketed information. [6] NOTE strange but true....May arrivals page 1 > list > does not include heading for church affiliation, conversely page 2 > format, > that is continued from page 1, does include church. [7] NOTE preface at > the beginning of each page: "AS WITH ANY TRANSCRIPTON OF OLD RECORDS > THERE > MAY BE ERRORS. YOU SHOULD CONSULT THE ORIGINAL SOURCE. > > 6 MAY 1709 FIRST ARRIVALS: "List of all the poor Germans lately come over > from the Palatinate into this Kingdom taken in St. Catherine's." PAGE 1 - > HUSBANDMAN & VINEDRESSERS [114 total families, 852 total of all men, wives > and children. Unrelated but interesting #18 Valentine Presler age 40, > wife, 3 > sons, 2 daughters. Quote from end of list: "Supposed ancestor of Elvis > Presley & Jimmy Carter"]: > 21. John George Hornigh age 38, wife, 2 sons, 2 daughters [previously > believed to be our ancestor family, later proved HE IS NOT, he went to > Ireland]. > 32. Benedict GNAEDI, age 60 [born 1649], wife, son age 24 [born 1685], > daughter age 25 [born 1684]. > He is the only "G" surname...Swiss? found on this list. Nothing fits, > thence, eliminated as a candidate for the family of our > George Kornegay. However, the surname is similar which begs to > question: [a] Could Benedict be the father to Johan Genedig aka > John > GNAEDIG age 40 [born: 1669] Catholic, carpenter, wife, sons age 11 [born > 1698] & 5 [born 1704], daughter age 1 [born 1708]... [from > Richard > Hite see his complete 11-20-2011 post in rootsweb archives]. [b] Could > Benedict's son born 1685...OR one of the sons of Johan > Genedig/John > GNAEDIG be the John Granade listed on Jan 5, 1747 & July 13, 1747 North > Carolina documents? > 106. Valentine Mueller age 23 single [could he connect to Jacob, > Martin, > Henry, Peter Mueller on the June arrivals?] > PAGE 2 - HUSBANDMAN ONLY [total listed 32], continued from page 1. Quote > from cover page [that was NOT on Pg. 1]: Many of these went to America > see > Palatine Ships To New York in 1710. > 26. John Moor, age 25, single, Ref Church [Adam Moor in NC took > Palatine > orphan Peter Engott age 13] > 27. Austin Moor age 22, single, Ref Church. > 28. John Wm Moor age 18, single, Ref Church > [NO familiar names in next entries: Herdsman, Wheelwright, Smiths, > Saddler, Millers > BAKERS [TOTAL 2]: > 2. Daniel Muller age 50 single Reformed Church > [NO familiar names in next entries: Brewer, Butchers, Cloth & Linen > Weavers]. > TAILORS [total listed 3]: > 3. John Adam Koenig, age 30 single. Ref. Church. > SHOEMAKER [total 5] > 1. John Jacob Mueller age 42, wife, sons age 13-12-10-8-6-4, dau. age > 15, Ref. Church [could he connect to June arrival Jacob Mueller?] > [NO familiar names in next entries: Stocking Weaver, Tanner, Carpenters, > Joiners, Masons, Coopers, Bookbinder, Miner]. > [PAGE 3- continued from page 2. NO familiar names in next entries: > Unmarried Persons, Widows, Etc., Unmarried, Such as Entered their Names > Last] > > 11 JUNE 1709 ARRIVALS: "List of poor Palatines taken 15 June 1709 at St. > Catherine's and Debtford." > PAGE 1 - HUSBANDMEN & VINEDRESSERS [family total 143. NOTE this list > does > not have total of men, wives, children at end of the list] > 5. Jacob Mueller age 50, wife, son age 6, daughter, age 14, Reformed > [Jacob Miller took into his care our orphan George see Aug. 1713 > NC > document. > 50. Martin Mueller age 32, wife, sons age 8-6-5, daughter age 2, > Reformed > 58. George Kurtz age 37, wife, son age 12, daughters -0- Lutheran [could > he be father of NC orphan George Coons> Cones> Koonce that > Jacob Miller also took into his care? > 82. JOHN KRENIG age 40, wife, son age 6, daughter age 11, Reformed [also > listed above as Document 1] > 94. John Lutz age 33, wife, sons age 10-7-3, daughters age 14, Reformed > 120. Peter Fischer age 36, wife, sons -0- daughters age 5-2, Reformed > [could he be father of MARY FISHER, 1st. wife of George > Kornegay?.....dates fit.] > 126. Henry Mueller age 34, wife, sons age 4-3, daughter age 1, Reformed > PAGE 2 - HUSBANDMEN & VINEDRESSERS [continued from page 1]: > 53. Peter Mueller, age 45, wife, sons age 18-6-4, daughters -o- > Catholic > [could Henry and Peter connect to Jacob and the other Muellers?] > Page 3 [continued from page 2]: > [NO familiar names found in next entry: Coopers]. > MASONS [total 7]: > 4. David Moor age 36, wife, sons -o-, daughters -o- Reformed [NOTE > John, > Austin and John Wm. Moor listed above in May arrivals and Adam & > Dannis Moor on NC documents as Palatines]. > [NO familiar names found in next entries: Joiners, Wheelwrights, Smiths, > Linen & Cloth Weavers, Tailors, Schoolmasters, Shoemakers, Bricklayers, > Stocking Weavers, Bakers, Huntsmen, Hatters, Glaziers, Buthcher [sic], > Saddler, > Figuremaker, Locksmith, Brickmaker, Herdsman, Surgeon] > MILLERS [total 10]: > 2. Peter Mueller age 45, wife, sons age 15-14-7, daughters age 19-3, > Reformed [NOTE above Peter Mueller # 53=different Peter] > [NO familiar names found in next entries: Widows, Unmarried Women]. > Kathlynn comments: NOTE surnames both Mueller and Muller...could they be > same surname spelled differently? I'm more inclined to believe they are > totally two different surnames and perhaps unrelated. > **********end of England documents*********** > > NORTH CAROLINA DOCUMENTS: > 1. Aug. 1713 Jacob Miller [Muller] took into his care two orphans and > promised to teach them to read and write, to take care of them until 21 > years of age, and have them taught a carpenter's trade. These orphans > were > George Kornegay and George (Cones?)...[source: book published by Charles > Kornegay]. > [Kathlynn keyed exactly as found. NOTE it appears Charles entered the > much later established Anglo Kornegay spelling. I suspect it was either > Knege > or Kneegee. NEED COPY OF ORIGINAL 1712 - 1713 Court Minutes from North > Carolina State Department of Archives and History, Raleigh, NC....to see > what > the original surname spelling is for George and to see if it is similar > to > Krenig]. > > 2. [1747] Petition to King George II from Persons Identifying > Themselves as Palatines or Descendants of Palatines Presented to the > Council at > Whitehall, London 13 July 1747 [Excerpts from the Petition]...your > Petitioners > being sent Six hundred in Number under the care Of Christopher De > Graffenreid [sic] Baronet ... for peopling and Settling Plantations in > North > Carolina... in the year 1709...arrived in America...North Carolina...in > the year > 1711 Indians broke out against and destroyed several Familys [sic]...Our > Trustee (DeGraffenreid) [sic] was taken by the Indians...then came one > Thomas > Pollock who ruled both Governor and County and acted in the behalf as a > General...sent his Captain William Brice to take all the Dutch that was > able to > bear Arms...as soon as Our Trustee departed (from America in 1712 - CRH) > [sic] Colonel Thomas Pollock came to Our Settlements and took every > thing, > even the millstones and left us without any assistance intirely [sic] > Naked > to the Mercy of the Indians...in the year 1747, the 5th day of January > the > Heir of Colonel Thomas Pollock came to our Plantation to turn us off from > Our Possessions by Virtue of Authority in Order to Settle the Rebels the > Scots in our Possessions, it being in the dead time of winter --- not > knowing > which way to go with our familys'. [sic]. SIGNERS OF THE PETITION, > Purporting to be Palatines or Descendants of Palatine Immigrants: Philip > Fennijer > [sic]. Christian Eslar - Herman Grum - Peter Ender (Ander) [sic] - > Joseph > Perger - Adam Moor - Abraham Buset - Dannis Moor - John Granad - John > Rimer > - Michael Gesbel (used to be Kissible, sic] - Christian Bauer - Peter > Reyel - Michael Riser - Henry Morris - Jacob Eibach - Nicholaus Rimer - > John > Kensey - Andrew Wallis - Henry Gerst - JACOB MILLER - Christian Walker - > Matthias Risenover - John Kinsey (name twice) [sic) - Daniel Tetchey - > Peter > Pellman - Abraham Bauer - [used to be Bowers, sic] - Christian Ganter - > Peter Lots [used to be Luttz=sic] - JOHN SIMONS - DANIEL SIMONS - George > Sneider [sic]- Frederick Merkert - Caspar Rishied - John Letger Miller > [sic] - > GEORGE KENEGE - Simon Kehler - Jacob Huber - John Bernhard Shonewoolf - > Christian Slubbach - Philip Omend - Michael Shelffer [source: Charles > Kornegay > book page 12] > [Kathlynn comments: [1] I keyed exactly as found in Charles Kornegay's > publication, except I capitalized the names of the speicfic ones of > interest. > [2] I have other NC documents that clearly shows all of these said people > are "Purporting to be Palatines or Descendants of Palatines," but the > above > is the only one that includes who they are, where they are from, when and > who they came to NC with]. > > 3. 31 Mar 1747 LWT written-probated 15 July 1751] RANDOLPH (X) > FISHER - > Craven Co NC: Imprimis: To my well beloved SON THOMAS FISHER 1 Negro man > named Sam and 1 negro Woman named Bell and 1 feather Bed furniture & 2 > iron > pots 1 large the other small & Cract, 4 puter Basones. 2 puter Dishes and > 8 > puter plates, 1 iron Skillit, F13:15 in current Cash or the Valley > (value?wph) in this providence Bills. Item: To my well beloved SON GEORGE > FISHER 4 > young Negroes namely, Toney, Tom & Sambo & Sorey. Also all my Ready Money > Goods & Chattles Debts & c. after my Debts & Legacy payd. EXE. SON GEORGE > FISHER. Wit: George Graham, Thos. Matchett, Richard Bath. Craven Co Ct. > at > New Bern 3d Tues Jun 1751 proved by George Graham. Lres, Granted issued > 15 > Jul 1751. > > 4. Dec. 20, 1749 Thomas SMITH a planter made his Will in Craven Co NC. > Witness of this will was JACOB MILLER, GEORGE KORNEGAY, GEORGE FISHER. > [Kathlynn comments: NEED copies of original documents for the last two to > replace these extractions with limited information only, to see if > Randolph > names wife, etc. And documents for Thomas & George Fisher > **********end of North Carolina documents *********** > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

After sending this personally to those who ask for it, I decided to send to list for review and ask for corrections/additions/opinion? It's lengthy and I realize sometime redundant because I tried to "dot every i and cross every t."...... Hope it's not to lengthy for rootsweb to accept. WORKING NOTES for immigrant ancestor family of George Kornegay, compiled, 2008-2013, by descendant Kathlynn SIMPSON Arledge-Johnson. PREFACE [CAVEAT]: John George Hornigh family was previously believed to be our ancestor family, however current research has PROVED they are NOT OUR immigrant ANCESTORS. This family WENT from the Palatinate in Germany to London, England and then TO IRELAND and has many proven descendants in Ireland where the surname is aka as Hornich: Document preserved in the British Museum Library, London, England, Board of Trade, Misc., Vol 2 - Page 57. 6 May 1709 - A list of all the poor Germans lately come over from the Palatinate into this Kingdom Tolsen in St. Catherine's. Hornigh, John George, age 38 years, wife, 2 sons age 8 and 2, and 2 daughters age 12 and 10, member of Reformed Church, Husbandman and Wine dresser. Extensive research in Germany and Switzerland produced no document that will prove without doubt who our immigrant ancestors are, and probably never will, based on the fact that documents were destroyed during the centuries of ongoing wars, religious upheaval, destruction and other horrifically devastating situations that took place during this time frame. Although research has been ongoing it is a very difficult task to search for the family of our George Kornegay because there is no one specific surname spelling to search for based on the fact his surname is found spelled so many different ways on the earlier North Carolina documents [see entered below]. Some researchers have continuously said, throughout the years, they believe our ancestor family [and Jacob Miller family] could be Swiss from Switzerland and were with Graffenried's second group that departed Switzerland July 1710, and the originally Swiss surname for Kornegay starts with "G" i.e., Gnaegi, Gnegy, Gnagi, Gnecki, Gnage, etc...vs...German surnames starting with "K" i.e., Knege, Kenege, Knag, Knegi, Knecky, Kinige in addition to the other variations. However, I have never understood why this was ever considered a possibility based on the fact we always had North Carolina documents [see below] for both, our ancestor George and Jacob Miller and many others in North Carolina, purporting to be Palatines and they came with Graffenried in 1709. And now we have the following documents which clearly identifies them as Palatines from the Palatinate when they arrived in London, England on 11 June 1709. And from other sources we know they departed England in Jan. 1709. [NOTE the Julian Calendar was in use at this time and a year was from March 25 to March 25 which means 1st. group arrived in England on June 11, 1709 departed with Baron Christoph von Graffenried seven months later, January 1709, and six months later, in July 1710, 2nd group departed with him from Switzerland. CONCLUSION: in my humble opinion any speculations that they were Swiss from Switzerland can now be totally eliminated, i.e. until proven otherwise. ................end of preface................. CURRENTLY I believe OUR GERMAN PALATINE IMMIGRANT ANCESTOR FAMILY FROM THE PALATINATE IN GERMANY is [possibly]: John Krenig born 1669, wife name and age unknown, and in 1709 they had one daughter name unknown born 1698 and one son born 1703 [source: Document 1 below]. Of course this is not the proof one prefers to have, however the following CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE seem to lend credence to this possibility. NOTE all following statements are based on documents below or in each said individuals notes section: 1. John Krenig family is the only one found on this specific list of Palatines with the surname that is any where close to the spelling found later on documents in North Carolina for George including but not limited to: Knege, Kenege, Kernagy, Kernegy, Kneegee, Knigge, Kornagy, Kornegee, Korneagy, Korneghke, Hernegay, Renegee, Corneque, and various other spellings....before it finally became the Anglicized Kornegay spelling many years later. a. And on this same list with John Krenig, is Jacob Mueller, Peter Fischer, George Kurtz [to be addressed in more detail below], and they or their descendants are all found later on North Carolina documents purporting to be Palatines. Which means they left Germany together, arrived in England together, departed from England together and arrived in North Carolina together, and this may indicate they knew each other in Germany because they were all in the same business, or perhaps they were all close friends and neighbors. b. John Krenig's 6 year old son [born 1703] does fit to be George Kornegay. c. George named his first son John which could mean he was named after his grandfather John Krenig which does fit the 18th Century German Naming Customs that was customarily used during this time frame i.e., first born son named after father's father. d. Plus, descendant/researchers Patricia Brown Hoffman, has constantly stated throughout the years "One researcher unknown, at present, feels that from the study of passengers, 6,520 in all, has concluded that JOHN KRENIG, age 40 with wife, son age 6 and daughter age 11 is our ancestor" ... "I never really felt that we belonged to the John HORNICH Family and I have always felt good about the possibility of John KRENIG being our man, I also think there is a good possibility that we are going to turn out to be SWISS rather than GERMAN? I have nothing concrete to base this on, just a hunch." ... "I have also seen claims that Jacob Mueller is SWISS." e. And, on 8-1-2011 after finding John Krenig on 3-16-2008, while browsing thru my hard copies I discover [or re-discovered] that my TN cousin, Tabitha *Francis* Ward Waller also has this same John Krenig family as our immigrant ancestors. I could not believe I've had her family history records on group sheets [but this said document was not included] for 20+ years and had this on my manually kept genealogy records and apparently forgot about it later when I went to computer and blindly accepted the claim circulating in cyberspace at the time that John George Hornigh was our Immigrant ancestor and now it appears that I accepted that as fact and just tucked poor John Krenig away and totally forgot about having him on my older records from the get-go. It is very interesting that Francis has the exact same information as stated on the list I found except she has: "Johan Krenig [instead of John] was born in the Upper Palatinate region of the Rhine Valley in Germany [instead of just Palatinate in Germany, i.e, nothing about Upper region of the Rhine Valley]. Wish I knew where Francis got this extra bit of information? [f] Conversely, there is one slight KICKER [or reason to doubt]: John Krenig had only one son in 1709, and in 1711 it's apparent George had a brother...based on Graffenried's account while in captivity Sept. 1711, on page 270-271: "The very same Indian with whom I lodged brought a young boy with him, one of my tenants" ... "Weeping bitterly this little fellow told me that his father, mother, brother, yes, the whole family had been massacred by this very same Indian." This "young boy-little fellow" is also believed to be our George Kornegay based on document stating he was captured and held hostage by these Indians, until later rescued by the NC Militia. CONCLUSION: the only way it would fit for John Krenig family to be the family of George Kornegay is to *assume* John had another son born after June 11,1709 [arrival in England] and Sept. 22, 1711 [Indian Massacre in NC].....and that is certainly possible. f. Plus: 3/16/2008 Matt writes: Kathlynn, this [John Krenig family] looks like a very promising lead. I can't find anything within it to rule it out or even cast doubt on its possibility.....3/17/08 Sheila Lawrence writes: I think this [John Krenig] is a very good lead, its better than anything else we have. I did a quick search and there is a mention of a ships list, but was lost in the early 1800's and no other list has been found. I did an extensive search on this at one time, even contacting a Navy dive expert who specialized in wrecks in and around the Virginia area. I followed up on the pirate ship angle looking for a clue as to what French ships were known to be haunting the area during the time they landed, nothing. For some reason there are not records of ships during that time in that area. There are articles that are lost to time and these are proving to be our wall to traverse in finding our ancestors across the sea.....3/18/2008 Kathy Kornegay Chruscielski writes: Kathlynn, This is all very exciting about the possible Krenig connection! You are an admirable researcher, meticulous in your sources and thorough. Thank you for sharing your gift! OVERALL CONCLUSION: Even if it is later proven John Krenig family is NOT our ancestor family....based on North Carolina documents it is without doubt that our ancestors, George Kornegay and his parents [regardless of the name or the spelling of the surname] were German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany. Although this does not prove their born location, it seems highly likely that Germany is *probably* the born location of George, and *possibly* his parents. And I see no reason to doubt John Krenig, Jacob Mueller, Peter Fischer and their families [and also all of the other on this list], ARE, clearly and without doubt, German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany. And I must add another considering factor that Mueller IS German: years ago my son, when he was in his teen's, worked for Hans Mueller owner of a local German Meet Processing Company in Dallas, TX. Therefore, it appears to me it can totally be eliminated that our immigrant ancestor family OR Jacob Mueller could be Swiss from Switzerland. 2. Re: Jacob Miller in NC, I see no reason to doubt he is the same person as Jacob Mueller on the list, therefore he was born 1659 [NOTE John Krenig born 1669] and in 1709 Jacob had wife, name & born date unknown, 1 daughter born 1695 [which fits to be Sevil] and 1 son born 1703 [same as our George Kornegay, assuming he IS son of John Krenig]. a. And what lends more credence for John Krenig family being our ancestors is the Aug. 1713 document: Jacob Miller took orphans George Kornegay [sic] and George [Cones?] [sic] into his care after all of their family members were killed in the September 22, 1711 Tuscarora Indian Massacre [source: book Kornegay History published by Charles Kornegay]. NOTE Charles states his notes were taken from 1712-1713 Court Minutes, North Carolina State Department of Archives and History, Raleigh. It seems apparent Charles replace the surname, whatever it was on the original document, with the Kornegay surname that wasn't even firmly established until years later. I highly suspect the surname on the document is Kenege based on: "George Kenege 1733 petition (as Carnepy); 1740 petitioner (as Connegue); 1747 petitioner. Present spelling, Kornegay." [source: Swiss & Palatines to New Bern from New Bern Craven Co., Library site < http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm >]. OR Kneegee which is the way it is spelled on this very same document in different publication I found at the main Downtown Dallas Co. Library. I will never understand how two different transcriptions for the same document could have the surname spelled different, or why anyone would change anything on the original document. CONCLUSION: Definitely NEED COPY OF ORIGINAL 1713 DOCUMENT, which appears to be the first and earliest document, to see the exact spelling of the surname for orphan George and if it is similar to Krenig. 3. Re: George [Cones?], this surname is also spelled many different ways until it was finally established as Koonce. And it appears he may be the son of George Kurtz age 37 [=born 1672], wife, son age 12 [=George Cones > Coons > Koonce] born 1697, daughters -0- Lutheran [see document below]. My sole purpose for even mentioning this is the fact that Jacob took this orphan boy in also and it could mean George Kurtz was also a friend or acquaintance of Jacob Mueller/Miller & Peter Fischer/Fisher in Germany and then later in North Carolina which may be another added factor for John Krenig being our man. 4. Re: Peter Fischer, born 1673, and in 1709 had wife, name and age unknown, sons -0- and 2 daughters age 5 [=born 1704] and 2 [=born 1707]: a. I think it is highly possible he is the father of Mary Fisher, based on dates fit for one of his daughters to be Mary and my best guess she is the one born 1704. Although there is NO PROOF it seems to be the common consensus of all researchers that she was the first wife of George Kornegay. I think the primary *CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE* for Fisher being her maiden name is based on: their only daughter, Mary Kornegay Simmons DeBruhl, named her only daughter MARY FISHER DeBRUHL by 2nd. husband, Edward Cornwallis DeBruhl; their son William Kornegay [Sr] named a son GEORGE FISHER KORNEGAY [Sr] and he named a son GEORGE FISHER KORNEGAY [Jr]; Joseph Kornegay [also a son of George Fisher Kornegay, Sr.] named a son GEORGE FISHER KORNEGAY, and there may be others that I am not aware of. Caveat: This discernment is based only on documents I have or have ever seen or heard about, and thereby assuming there was only one immigrant Fisher family in North Carolina, thence progenitor of all Fishers. And this is not to say that there may be documents for some other Fisher in NC that I do not have which would change this whole speculative discernment. And there is a possibility that Mary could have descended from the John Fisher on Jamestowne Society Qualifying Ancestors list, via one of his descendants that could have moved at a later date to NC. b. NOTEWORTHY MENTION: Mary Kornegay [daughter of George and Mary] married 1st. Daniel Simmons, son of John Simmons & Margrett Bussett from [German speaking] Village of Buchs, Switzerland [undocumented claim from another researcher]. Although there are no Simons/Simmons or Buset/Bussett found on this specific said list taken in England there are North Carolina documents for a John Simons in 1740, and a John and Daniel Simons and Abraham Buset in 1747 and on both documents they are Purporting to be Palatines or descendants of Palatines [see document below]. Although, it *could mean* they DID come with Graffenried's 2nd group from Switzerland, however, to me that doesn't mean they were actually Swiss born in Switzerland, instead it most likely means at this time they were Expatriates in Switzerland, i.e., a person temporarily, or permanently, residing in a country and culture other than their birth-upbringing] in Switzerland. And I am basing this last statement on: "Twenty Thousands of the homeless went to England where they soon became a burden and an embarrassment to Queen Anne. Switzerland, as well as England, was overrun with thousands of refugees from the Palatinate and from France. At one time nearly every well-to-do family in Switzerland had one or more refugees quartered upon it by order of the government." [Source: Charles Dewey Kornegay book, page 1]. c. Now, I've said all of this to reinforce my point, i.e., IF my overall understanding is correct: Even IF it is determined later that this John Krenig family is NOT our immigrant family and a more likely family is found that came with Graffenried 2nd group from Switzerland, I believe George and his family are none the less GERMAN PALATINES FROM THE PALATINATE [not Swiss from Switzerland]....based on NC documents for George identifying his-self as a Palatine. And the same is true for Jacob Mueller/Miller, and the all of the others. d. Re: Randolph Fisher, Craven Co., NC LWT written March 31,1747 - probated July 15, 1751, I think it is possible, if not probable, that he is son of Peter Fischer, thence brother of Mary, and Randolph's two sons, Thomas & George, are grandsons of Peter Fischer. The only KICKER since Peter Fischer didn't have a son in 1709 when he was in England and to make this fit one would have to assume Randolph was born after 1709 and assuming he was born about 1710 in NC and was about age 22 when his son Thomas was born about 1732 and son George born about 1734, which in turn means Randolph died about age 41, and left minor sons Thomas about age 19 and George about age 17. And then that means George at age 15 was one of the witnesses to the1749 LWT of Thomas Smith....WHEW! Hope I've said all of this correctly. Anyway, could this mean that Randolph Fisher is not a son of Peter Fischer? e. Re: Peter Fischer's other daughter born 1707, I think it is possible she married Thomas Smith whose 1749 Craven Co., NC LWT based on this will was witnessed by: George Kornegay, George Fisher and Jacob Miller [see document below]. THE CONUNDRUMS REMAIN: On the documents I have there are NO Fischers/Fishers orphans listed and NO Fishers Purporting to be Palatines or Descendants of Palatines on any of the other said documents: Could this indicate Peter was one of many that died during the voyage, or soon after arrival, or killed in 1711 Indian massacre and thereby leaving his children, Mary, unknown daughter and *maybe* new born baby Randolph in the care of his surviving wife [name unknown]? CONCLUSION before any in depth discernment can be made, definitely NEED COMPLETE COPY OF LWT for Randolph and for Thomas Smith instead of these extractions with very limited information and MORE DOCUMENTS/DISCERNMENT for Thomas & George Fisher and Thomas Smith. **********end of circumstantial evidence************ ENGLAND DOCUMENTS: 1. John Krenig age 40 Husbandman & Vinedresser, wife, son age 6, daughter age 11, Reformed Church [source: Palatines from Germany to England in 1709 - List taken June 15, 1709 at St. Catherine's [sic] and Debtfore of poor German Palatines from the Palatinate who arrived at St Catherin's [sic] June 11th, 1709-Page 1] PREFACE - CAVEAT: [1] March 16, 2008 Kathlynn found the above and all of the following online: http://www.germanroots.home.att.net/1709palatines ---- However, 5-20-2013, page not found by using the germanroots URL, but I finally found same documents at: http://www.genesearch.com/genealogy-records/1709palatines/ [2] The following entries were extracted from the hundreds of unnumbered names on the list of May arrivals and hundreds of different unnumbered names on the June arrivals. [3] I extracted only the familiar names of the ones found later on documents in North Carolina purporting to be Palatines or descendants of Palatines. [4] I entered the numbers beside their names just as a reminder to show the order in which they are listed, i.e, they are not all listed one after the other. [5] And I also added the bracketed information. [6] NOTE strange but true....May arrivals page 1 list does not include heading for church affiliation, conversely page 2 format, that is continued from page 1, does include church. [7] NOTE preface at the beginning of each page: "AS WITH ANY TRANSCRIPTON OF OLD RECORDS THERE MAY BE ERRORS. YOU SHOULD CONSULT THE ORIGINAL SOURCE. 6 MAY 1709 FIRST ARRIVALS: "List of all the poor Germans lately come over from the Palatinate into this Kingdom taken in St. Catherine's." PAGE 1 - HUSBANDMAN & VINEDRESSERS [114 total families, 852 total of all men, wives and children. Unrelated but interesting #18 Valentine Presler age 40, wife, 3 sons, 2 daughters. Quote from end of list: "Supposed ancestor of Elvis Presley & Jimmy Carter"]: 21. John George Hornigh age 38, wife, 2 sons, 2 daughters [previously believed to be our ancestor family, later proved HE IS NOT, he went to Ireland]. 32. Benedict GNAEDI, age 60 [born 1649], wife, son age 24 [born 1685], daughter age 25 [born 1684]. He is the only "G" surname...Swiss? found on this list. Nothing fits, thence, eliminated as a candidate for the family of our George Kornegay. However, the surname is similar which begs to question: [a] Could Benedict be the father to Johan Genedig aka John GNAEDIG age 40 [born: 1669] Catholic, carpenter, wife, sons age 11 [born 1698] & 5 [born 1704], daughter age 1 [born 1708]... [from Richard Hite see his complete 11-20-2011 post in rootsweb archives]. [b] Could Benedict's son born 1685...OR one of the sons of Johan Genedig/John GNAEDIG be the John Granade listed on Jan 5, 1747 & July 13, 1747 North Carolina documents? 106. Valentine Mueller age 23 single [could he connect to Jacob, Martin, Henry, Peter Mueller on the June arrivals?] PAGE 2 - HUSBANDMAN ONLY [total listed 32], continued from page 1. Quote from cover page [that was NOT on Pg. 1]: Many of these went to America see Palatine Ships To New York in 1710. 26. John Moor, age 25, single, Ref Church [Adam Moor in NC took Palatine orphan Peter Engott age 13] 27. Austin Moor age 22, single, Ref Church. 28. John Wm Moor age 18, single, Ref Church [NO familiar names in next entries: Herdsman, Wheelwright, Smiths, Saddler, Millers BAKERS [TOTAL 2]: 2. Daniel Muller age 50 single Reformed Church [NO familiar names in next entries: Brewer, Butchers, Cloth & Linen Weavers]. TAILORS [total listed 3]: 3. John Adam Koenig, age 30 single. Ref. Church. SHOEMAKER [total 5] 1. John Jacob Mueller age 42, wife, sons age 13-12-10-8-6-4, dau. age 15, Ref. Church [could he connect to June arrival Jacob Mueller?] [NO familiar names in next entries: Stocking Weaver, Tanner, Carpenters, Joiners, Masons, Coopers, Bookbinder, Miner]. [PAGE 3- continued from page 2. NO familiar names in next entries: Unmarried Persons, Widows, Etc., Unmarried, Such as Entered their Names Last] 11 JUNE 1709 ARRIVALS: "List of poor Palatines taken 15 June 1709 at St. Catherine's and Debtford." PAGE 1 - HUSBANDMEN & VINEDRESSERS [family total 143. NOTE this list does not have total of men, wives, children at end of the list] 5. Jacob Mueller age 50, wife, son age 6, daughter, age 14, Reformed [Jacob Miller took into his care our orphan George see Aug. 1713 NC document. 50. Martin Mueller age 32, wife, sons age 8-6-5, daughter age 2, Reformed 58. George Kurtz age 37, wife, son age 12, daughters -0- Lutheran [could he be father of NC orphan George Coons> Cones> Koonce that Jacob Miller also took into his care? 82. JOHN KRENIG age 40, wife, son age 6, daughter age 11, Reformed [also listed above as Document 1] 94. John Lutz age 33, wife, sons age 10-7-3, daughters age 14, Reformed 120. Peter Fischer age 36, wife, sons -0- daughters age 5-2, Reformed [could he be father of MARY FISHER, 1st. wife of George Kornegay?.....dates fit.] 126. Henry Mueller age 34, wife, sons age 4-3, daughter age 1, Reformed PAGE 2 - HUSBANDMEN & VINEDRESSERS [continued from page 1]: 53. Peter Mueller, age 45, wife, sons age 18-6-4, daughters -o- Catholic [could Henry and Peter connect to Jacob and the other Muellers?] Page 3 [continued from page 2]: [NO familiar names found in next entry: Coopers]. MASONS [total 7]: 4. David Moor age 36, wife, sons -o-, daughters -o- Reformed [NOTE John, Austin and John Wm. Moor listed above in May arrivals and Adam & Dannis Moor on NC documents as Palatines]. [NO familiar names found in next entries: Joiners, Wheelwrights, Smiths, Linen & Cloth Weavers, Tailors, Schoolmasters, Shoemakers, Bricklayers, Stocking Weavers, Bakers, Huntsmen, Hatters, Glaziers, Buthcher [sic], Saddler, Figuremaker, Locksmith, Brickmaker, Herdsman, Surgeon] MILLERS [total 10]: 2. Peter Mueller age 45, wife, sons age 15-14-7, daughters age 19-3, Reformed [NOTE above Peter Mueller # 53=different Peter] [NO familiar names found in next entries: Widows, Unmarried Women]. Kathlynn comments: NOTE surnames both Mueller and Muller...could they be same surname spelled differently? I'm more inclined to believe they are totally two different surnames and perhaps unrelated. **********end of England documents*********** NORTH CAROLINA DOCUMENTS: 1. Aug. 1713 Jacob Miller [Muller] took into his care two orphans and promised to teach them to read and write, to take care of them until 21 years of age, and have them taught a carpenter's trade. These orphans were George Kornegay and George (Cones?)...[source: book published by Charles Kornegay]. [Kathlynn keyed exactly as found. NOTE it appears Charles entered the much later established Anglo Kornegay spelling. I suspect it was either Knege or Kneegee. NEED COPY OF ORIGINAL 1712 - 1713 Court Minutes from North Carolina State Department of Archives and History, Raleigh, NC....to see what the original surname spelling is for George and to see if it is similar to Krenig]. 2. [1747] Petition to King George II from Persons Identifying Themselves as Palatines or Descendants of Palatines Presented to the Council at Whitehall, London 13 July 1747 [Excerpts from the Petition]...your Petitioners being sent Six hundred in Number under the care Of Christopher De Graffenreid [sic] Baronet ... for peopling and Settling Plantations in North Carolina... in the year 1709...arrived in America...North Carolina...in the year 1711 Indians broke out against and destroyed several Familys [sic]...Our Trustee (DeGraffenreid) [sic] was taken by the Indians...then came one Thomas Pollock who ruled both Governor and County and acted in the behalf as a General...sent his Captain William Brice to take all the Dutch that was able to bear Arms...as soon as Our Trustee departed (from America in 1712 - CRH) [sic] Colonel Thomas Pollock came to Our Settlements and took every thing, even the millstones and left us without any assistance intirely [sic] Naked to the Mercy of the Indians...in the year 1747, the 5th day of January the Heir of Colonel Thomas Pollock came to our Plantation to turn us off from Our Possessions by Virtue of Authority in Order to Settle the Rebels the Scots in our Possessions, it being in the dead time of winter --- not knowing which way to go with our familys'. [sic]. SIGNERS OF THE PETITION, Purporting to be Palatines or Descendants of Palatine Immigrants: Philip Fennijer [sic]. Christian Eslar - Herman Grum - Peter Ender (Ander) [sic] - Joseph Perger - Adam Moor - Abraham Buset - Dannis Moor - John Granad - John Rimer - Michael Gesbel (used to be Kissible, sic] - Christian Bauer - Peter Reyel - Michael Riser - Henry Morris - Jacob Eibach - Nicholaus Rimer - John Kensey - Andrew Wallis - Henry Gerst - JACOB MILLER - Christian Walker - Matthias Risenover - John Kinsey (name twice) [sic) - Daniel Tetchey - Peter Pellman - Abraham Bauer - [used to be Bowers, sic] - Christian Ganter - Peter Lots [used to be Luttz=sic] - JOHN SIMONS - DANIEL SIMONS - George Sneider [sic]- Frederick Merkert - Caspar Rishied - John Letger Miller [sic] - GEORGE KENEGE - Simon Kehler - Jacob Huber - John Bernhard Shonewoolf - Christian Slubbach - Philip Omend - Michael Shelffer [source: Charles Kornegay book page 12] [Kathlynn comments: [1] I keyed exactly as found in Charles Kornegay's publication, except I capitalized the names of the speicfic ones of interest. [2] I have other NC documents that clearly shows all of these said people are "Purporting to be Palatines or Descendants of Palatines," but the above is the only one that includes who they are, where they are from, when and who they came to NC with]. 3. 31 Mar 1747 LWT written-probated 15 July 1751] RANDOLPH (X) FISHER - Craven Co NC: Imprimis: To my well beloved SON THOMAS FISHER 1 Negro man named Sam and 1 negro Woman named Bell and 1 feather Bed furniture & 2 iron pots 1 large the other small & Cract, 4 puter Basones. 2 puter Dishes and 8 puter plates, 1 iron Skillit, F13:15 in current Cash or the Valley (value?wph) in this providence Bills. Item: To my well beloved SON GEORGE FISHER 4 young Negroes namely, Toney, Tom & Sambo & Sorey. Also all my Ready Money Goods & Chattles Debts & c. after my Debts & Legacy payd. EXE. SON GEORGE FISHER. Wit: George Graham, Thos. Matchett, Richard Bath. Craven Co Ct. at New Bern 3d Tues Jun 1751 proved by George Graham. Lres, Granted issued 15 Jul 1751. 4. Dec. 20, 1749 Thomas SMITH a planter made his Will in Craven Co NC. Witness of this will was JACOB MILLER, GEORGE KORNEGAY, GEORGE FISHER. [Kathlynn comments: NEED copies of original documents for the last two to replace these extractions with limited information only, to see if Randolph names wife, etc. And documents for Thomas & George Fisher **********end of North Carolina documents ***********

Dear Kathlynn and all, Before I forget it want to say that in Sep of 1995, Matt Ward wrote: Re: Duplin County Project: My latest discovery is that the name "Kornegay" may have any of these variants: GNAEGI, GNEGY, GNAGI, KNEGE, KENEGE, KNAG, KNEGI, GNECKI, GNAGE,KNECKY,KINIGE.......in addition to the varations I already had seen. The names starting with "G" are the spellings of the SWISS. I have done further research in the founding of New Bern so that I might better understand where our George KORNEGAY might have come from." Now to explain some of my reasoning. I have a paper intitiled DeGraffenreid and the Swiss and Palatine Settlement of New Bern, NC (Published of Historical papers. Series IV. the Historical Society of Trinity College. Durham NC, 1900 pp 64-71) I am going to hit the high spots of this paper.It says that Christoper De Graffenreid, a genetleman of Berne, Swirtzerland. He and another Swiss named Louis Mitchell had come to the Carolinas looking for a suitable Swiss settlement because at the time Switzerland was over crowded and persecuted Protestants so they were looking for a place in Americia to Colonize.At the same time great numbers of protestants from the Palatinate, a province in Germany were crowding into London being driven from their homes by the Catholic. In other words there were all of these Palentines and these Swiss Colonist together. This history says." It is hard to find out how many Swiss colonist there were, some accounts say 1,500, but as DeGraffenreid mentioned only one ship load, there could hardly have been that many". The arrival of the Swiss put new life into the Palantines so they must have been mixed together some how. So to me it is not unreasonable to think that our KORNEGAY could have been Swiss as well as German Palantines. Since we never could seem to find a name in Germany that we thought matched, I said maybe they were Swiss as I had read that Jacob MULLER was SWISS. You are right Kathlyn, Muller can be German as I have done some research on my Paternal lines of a Jacob MULLER who was the founder of Woodstock, VA and they are indeed German. However, I have Swiss lines that include some MILLERS rather than MUELLER (German) but many of the Swiss names are German sounding. In that court document about the orphans they spelled Jacob name as MILLER. Some where I have the story of Jacob MILLER and his dau Sevil marrying FRANKE but I can't find it, I can't remember if that says anything about them being Swiss or not. So to answer your question, I really don't know or have definite proof that our family is Swiss but I don't know for sure if they are German Palantine either. Pat In a message dated 7/10/2013 10:54:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stevene.rowe@gmail.com writes: http://www.knappenberger.net/GermanImmigrantsToPA.pdf "The early German immigrants to Pennsylvania, ... were predominantly from parts of SW Germany, known today as the states of Rhineland-Palatinate (Rheinland- Pfaltz) and Baden-Wuerttemberg. Others came from nearby German communities just over the border in Switzerland and in Alsace, France. Collectively they were all referred to as "Palatines" or "Palatinates" in the historical literature." --Richard A. Newhouse And while correct spelling of names is a 19th century concept, putting all the variants in a list is a pretty good way of coming close to an early pronunciation of the name. Steven Rowe (descendant of Ida Jackson Kornegay) On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:00 PM, <Kathlynn3@aol.com> wrote: > Hi Patty, in reference to your email sent today, 7-10-2013 4:40 PM "Jacob > Muller (Miller) the Swiss School Master." Am I understanding correctly > this claim came from the same book you mentioned, or better said in question > form: what is the basis for this claim? I do well remember all along > throughout the past many, many years you have always said you thought he could be > Swiss from Switzerland....and who knows anything for sure...certainly not > I. > > Anyway, fwiw, I sending you what I have in my notes section regarding this > specific issue, which is 1 of several facts that I have listed under > Circumstantial Evidence: > 1. The surname Krenig is the only one found on this specific list of > Palatines, that arrived in May and June 1709, that is any where close to the > surname spelling found later on documents in North Carolina for George Renegee > [which could be just a transcription error and should be Kenegee], > Kenegee, Kenege, Kenegy, Kernage, Kernegee, Connegue and various other spellings > found on documents before it finally became the Anglicized Kornegay spelling > many years later. PLUS two other descendant/researchers believe he is our > ancestor: [1] Patricia Brown Hoffman constantly stated throughout the > years: "I have a note in my records which I may have told you about before but > that goes like this: One researcher unknown, at present, feels that from > the study of passengers, 6,520 in all, has concluded that JOHN KRENIG, age 40 > with wife, son age 6 and dau. age 11 is our ancestor" ... "I never really > felt that we belonged to the John HORNICH Family and I have always felt > good about the possibility of John KRENIG being our man, I also think there is > a good possibility that we are going to turn out to be SWISS rather than > GERMAN? I have nothing concrete to base this on, just a hunch." ... "I have > also seen claims that Jacob Mueller is SWISS." [2] And much to my > amazement, 4 years later on 8/1/2011, while browsing thru my hard copies I discover > [or re-discovered] that my TN cousin, Tabitha *Francis* Ward Waller also > has this same John Krenig family as our immigrant ancestors. I could not > believe I've had her family history records for 20+ years and had this on my > manually kept genealogy records, and apparently forgot about it later when > I went to computer and blindly accepted the claim circulating in cyberspace > at the time that John George Hornigh was our Immigrant ancestor and > accepted that as fact and just tucked poor John Krenig away and totally forgot > about having him on my older records from the get-go. It is very interesting > that Francis has the exact same information as stated on the list I found > except she has: "Johan Krenig b: 1669 in the Upper Palatinate region of the > Rhine Valley in Germany. He was a farmer and member of the Reform > Church." And the above said list I found has: John [not Johan] Krenig, German > Palatine from the Palatinate, and it doesn't have anything about Upper > Palatinate region of Rhine Valley. Wish I knew where Francis got this extra bit > of information? > > Then after the whole list of Circumstantial Evidence I have: CONCLUSION > Assuming John Krenig IS our ancestor and based on this said England document > and North Carolina documents it is without doubt that our ancestors, George > Kornegay and his parents [regardless of the name or the spelling of the > surname] were German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany. Although this > does not prove their born location, it seems highly likely that it *could > be* the born location of George, and *possibly* his parents. And IF this > John Krenig IS our immigrant ancestor and father of George Kornegay I see no > reason to doubt he and Jacob Mueller, Peter Fischer and their families > [and also all of the other on this list], ARE, clearly and without doubt, > German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany. And I must add another > considering factor that Mueller IS German: years ago my son, when he was in his > teen's, worked for Hans Mueller owner of a local German Meet Processing > Company in Dallas, TX. Therefore, I believe it can totally be eliminated that > our immigrant ancestor family OR Jacob Mueller could possible be Swiss from > Switzerland. > > And then in another place I have: I am NOT saying that it is not possible > that our ancestor family were a part of the Palatines that came in > Graffenried's second group from Switzerland, however, I am saying that I believe if > they were they were still German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany, > who at this time were Expatriates in Switzerland, and I make this > statement based on page 1 of aforesaid book published by Charles Dewey Kornegay: > "At one time nearly every well-to-do family in Switzerland had one or more > refugees quartered upon it by order of the government"..."Twenty Thousands of > the homeless went to England where they soon became a burden and an > embarrassment to Queen Anne. Switzerland, as well as England, was overrun with > thousands of refugees from the Palatinate and from France." Now, I've said > all of this to reinforce my point: Even IF our ancestor family was among the > 2nd group that Graffenried brought from Switzerland, I believe they are > none the less GERMAN PALATINES FROM THE PALATINATE [not Swiss from > Switzerland]. > > Patty, I value your expert discernment...Soooo, will you tell me if you > still believe it is possible that Kornegays OR Millers he could be Swiss > from Switzerland? > ~Kathlynn~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Patty, in reference to your email sent today, 7-10-2013 4:40 PM "Jacob Muller (Miller) the Swiss School Master." Am I understanding correctly this claim came from the same book you mentioned, or better said in question form: what is the basis for this claim? I do well remember all along throughout the past many, many years you have always said you thought he could be Swiss from Switzerland....and who knows anything for sure...certainly not I. Anyway, fwiw, I sending you what I have in my notes section regarding this specific issue, which is 1 of several facts that I have listed under Circumstantial Evidence: 1. The surname Krenig is the only one found on this specific list of Palatines, that arrived in May and June 1709, that is any where close to the surname spelling found later on documents in North Carolina for George Renegee [which could be just a transcription error and should be Kenegee], Kenegee, Kenege, Kenegy, Kernage, Kernegee, Connegue and various other spellings found on documents before it finally became the Anglicized Kornegay spelling many years later. PLUS two other descendant/researchers believe he is our ancestor: [1] Patricia Brown Hoffman constantly stated throughout the years: "I have a note in my records which I may have told you about before but that goes like this: One researcher unknown, at present, feels that from the study of passengers, 6,520 in all, has concluded that JOHN KRENIG, age 40 with wife, son age 6 and dau. age 11 is our ancestor" ... "I never really felt that we belonged to the John HORNICH Family and I have always felt good about the possibility of John KRENIG being our man, I also think there is a good possibility that we are going to turn out to be SWISS rather than GERMAN? I have nothing concrete to base this on, just a hunch." ... "I have also seen claims that Jacob Mueller is SWISS." [2] And much to my amazement, 4 years later on 8/1/2011, while browsing thru my hard copies I discover [or re-discovered] that my TN cousin, Tabitha *Francis* Ward Waller also has this same John Krenig family as our immigrant ancestors. I could not believe I've had her family history records for 20+ years and had this on my manually kept genealogy records, and apparently forgot about it later when I went to computer and blindly accepted the claim circulating in cyberspace at the time that John George Hornigh was our Immigrant ancestor and accepted that as fact and just tucked poor John Krenig away and totally forgot about having him on my older records from the get-go. It is very interesting that Francis has the exact same information as stated on the list I found except she has: "Johan Krenig b: 1669 in the Upper Palatinate region of the Rhine Valley in Germany. He was a farmer and member of the Reform Church." And the above said list I found has: John [not Johan] Krenig, German Palatine from the Palatinate, and it doesn't have anything about Upper Palatinate region of Rhine Valley. Wish I knew where Francis got this extra bit of information? Then after the whole list of Circumstantial Evidence I have: CONCLUSION Assuming John Krenig IS our ancestor and based on this said England document and North Carolina documents it is without doubt that our ancestors, George Kornegay and his parents [regardless of the name or the spelling of the surname] were German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany. Although this does not prove their born location, it seems highly likely that it *could be* the born location of George, and *possibly* his parents. And IF this John Krenig IS our immigrant ancestor and father of George Kornegay I see no reason to doubt he and Jacob Mueller, Peter Fischer and their families [and also all of the other on this list], ARE, clearly and without doubt, German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany. And I must add another considering factor that Mueller IS German: years ago my son, when he was in his teen's, worked for Hans Mueller owner of a local German Meet Processing Company in Dallas, TX. Therefore, I believe it can totally be eliminated that our immigrant ancestor family OR Jacob Mueller could possible be Swiss from Switzerland. And then in another place I have: I am NOT saying that it is not possible that our ancestor family were a part of the Palatines that came in Graffenried's second group from Switzerland, however, I am saying that I believe if they were they were still German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany, who at this time were Expatriates in Switzerland, and I make this statement based on page 1 of aforesaid book published by Charles Dewey Kornegay: "At one time nearly every well-to-do family in Switzerland had one or more refugees quartered upon it by order of the government"..."Twenty Thousands of the homeless went to England where they soon became a burden and an embarrassment to Queen Anne. Switzerland, as well as England, was overrun with thousands of refugees from the Palatinate and from France." Now, I've said all of this to reinforce my point: Even IF our ancestor family was among the 2nd group that Graffenried brought from Switzerland, I believe they are none the less GERMAN PALATINES FROM THE PALATINATE [not Swiss from Switzerland]. Patty, I value your expert discernment...Soooo, will you tell me if you still believe it is possible that Kornegays OR Millers he could be Swiss from Switzerland? ~Kathlynn~

http://www.knappenberger.net/GermanImmigrantsToPA.pdf "The early German immigrants to Pennsylvania, ... were predominantly from parts of SW Germany, known today as the states of Rhineland-Palatinate (Rheinland- Pfaltz) and Baden-Wuerttemberg. Others came from nearby German communities just over the border in Switzerland and in Alsace, France. Collectively they were all referred to as "Palatines" or "Palatinates" in the historical literature." --Richard A. Newhouse And while correct spelling of names is a 19th century concept, putting all the variants in a list is a pretty good way of coming close to an early pronunciation of the name. Steven Rowe (descendant of Ida Jackson Kornegay) On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:00 PM, <Kathlynn3@aol.com> wrote: > Hi Patty, in reference to your email sent today, 7-10-2013 4:40 PM "Jacob > Muller (Miller) the Swiss School Master." Am I understanding correctly > this claim came from the same book you mentioned, or better said in question > form: what is the basis for this claim? I do well remember all along > throughout the past many, many years you have always said you thought he could be > Swiss from Switzerland....and who knows anything for sure...certainly not > I. > > Anyway, fwiw, I sending you what I have in my notes section regarding this > specific issue, which is 1 of several facts that I have listed under > Circumstantial Evidence: > 1. The surname Krenig is the only one found on this specific list of > Palatines, that arrived in May and June 1709, that is any where close to the > surname spelling found later on documents in North Carolina for George Renegee > [which could be just a transcription error and should be Kenegee], > Kenegee, Kenege, Kenegy, Kernage, Kernegee, Connegue and various other spellings > found on documents before it finally became the Anglicized Kornegay spelling > many years later. PLUS two other descendant/researchers believe he is our > ancestor: [1] Patricia Brown Hoffman constantly stated throughout the > years: "I have a note in my records which I may have told you about before but > that goes like this: One researcher unknown, at present, feels that from > the study of passengers, 6,520 in all, has concluded that JOHN KRENIG, age 40 > with wife, son age 6 and dau. age 11 is our ancestor" ... "I never really > felt that we belonged to the John HORNICH Family and I have always felt > good about the possibility of John KRENIG being our man, I also think there is > a good possibility that we are going to turn out to be SWISS rather than > GERMAN? I have nothing concrete to base this on, just a hunch." ... "I have > also seen claims that Jacob Mueller is SWISS." [2] And much to my > amazement, 4 years later on 8/1/2011, while browsing thru my hard copies I discover > [or re-discovered] that my TN cousin, Tabitha *Francis* Ward Waller also > has this same John Krenig family as our immigrant ancestors. I could not > believe I've had her family history records for 20+ years and had this on my > manually kept genealogy records, and apparently forgot about it later when > I went to computer and blindly accepted the claim circulating in cyberspace > at the time that John George Hornigh was our Immigrant ancestor and > accepted that as fact and just tucked poor John Krenig away and totally forgot > about having him on my older records from the get-go. It is very interesting > that Francis has the exact same information as stated on the list I found > except she has: "Johan Krenig b: 1669 in the Upper Palatinate region of the > Rhine Valley in Germany. He was a farmer and member of the Reform > Church." And the above said list I found has: John [not Johan] Krenig, German > Palatine from the Palatinate, and it doesn't have anything about Upper > Palatinate region of Rhine Valley. Wish I knew where Francis got this extra bit > of information? > > Then after the whole list of Circumstantial Evidence I have: CONCLUSION > Assuming John Krenig IS our ancestor and based on this said England document > and North Carolina documents it is without doubt that our ancestors, George > Kornegay and his parents [regardless of the name or the spelling of the > surname] were German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany. Although this > does not prove their born location, it seems highly likely that it *could > be* the born location of George, and *possibly* his parents. And IF this > John Krenig IS our immigrant ancestor and father of George Kornegay I see no > reason to doubt he and Jacob Mueller, Peter Fischer and their families > [and also all of the other on this list], ARE, clearly and without doubt, > German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany. And I must add another > considering factor that Mueller IS German: years ago my son, when he was in his > teen's, worked for Hans Mueller owner of a local German Meet Processing > Company in Dallas, TX. Therefore, I believe it can totally be eliminated that > our immigrant ancestor family OR Jacob Mueller could possible be Swiss from > Switzerland. > > And then in another place I have: I am NOT saying that it is not possible > that our ancestor family were a part of the Palatines that came in > Graffenried's second group from Switzerland, however, I am saying that I believe if > they were they were still German Palatines from the Palatinate in Germany, > who at this time were Expatriates in Switzerland, and I make this > statement based on page 1 of aforesaid book published by Charles Dewey Kornegay: > "At one time nearly every well-to-do family in Switzerland had one or more > refugees quartered upon it by order of the government"..."Twenty Thousands of > the homeless went to England where they soon became a burden and an > embarrassment to Queen Anne. Switzerland, as well as England, was overrun with > thousands of refugees from the Palatinate and from France." Now, I've said > all of this to reinforce my point: Even IF our ancestor family was among the > 2nd group that Graffenried brought from Switzerland, I believe they are > none the less GERMAN PALATINES FROM THE PALATINATE [not Swiss from > Switzerland]. > > Patty, I value your expert discernment...Soooo, will you tell me if you > still believe it is possible that Kornegays OR Millers he could be Swiss > from Switzerland? > ~Kathlynn~ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kathlynn, I have a copy of "Descendants Outline Of KOONCE Family Onslow and Jines Counties NC created by Allen Powell Dew. You may be able to google this maybe he can tell you more about the KOONCE name.In this item he has Son KOONCE , Daughter KOONCE, George KOONCE Mary L'Earge KOONCE Reared by Captain Jacob Miller. Settled in Jones Co NC near the Trent River. By 1725 he had accumulated an estate of over 20,000 acres known as Chinquapin Plantation." I have a copy of a book that someone wrote on the KORNEGAY family, I don't know who wrote the book but the chapters that I have were copied at NSDAR Library, in Chapter I it says; " In the North Carolina Archives there is a court recording of Bath County, Craven Precinct (now Craven County)in Minutes Book 1, page 4 dated January, 1712/13, in which the following entry is found," "Whereas Jacob Miller, Esquire, declares to ye court yt he ye aforesaid Jacob Miller, Esquire, hath in his keeping two orphan children viz. Geo. Kneegee and Geo.Conis and it is ordered yt. ye said Jacob Miller, Esquire, teaches ye said orphans to read and write before ye said orphans arrives to ye age of twenty one years. Ordered it be recorded and it is recorded." As far a KORNEGAY I think you are going to find the name spelled many different ways, as many ways as there were people writing down the name as they heard it. The name KORNEGAY has been spelled many different ways. In the book that I mentioned above they gave spellings as: KERNEGEE, KENEGY, KENEGE,KNEEGEE, KORNEGE, KERNEGY, KERNEGAY, KERRAGE, KERNAGE, KORNEGA, KORNEGIA, CORNEGUE,CORNEGIE. "often such errors in spelling were entered into the records because the majority of the census takers were poorly educated and not well paid or well informed as to how to take census." The person writing this book concluded after studing the list of passengers, 6,520 in all that the passenger JOHN KRENIG and family best matched our KORNEGAY family. They were among the 4th group to arrive at St. Cathrin's on June 11, 1709 and were taken to St. Catherine's and Debtford on June 15 to await for departure to America. John KRENIG was 40 years of age and was accompanied by his wife, a son six years of age, and a daughter 11 years of age. They were members of the Reformed Church. George was 9 years when his family was killed in 1711. Interesting that Jacob MULLER (Miller), the Swiss School Master appeared on the same passenger list as John KRENIG. A Jacob MUELLER and John Jacob MULLER appeared on two other lists of passengers from Palatinate in that same year. Pat Hoffman In a message dated 7/10/2013 4:32:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Kathlynn3@aol.com writes: Thanks Demitri, in reference to your message entered at the very bottom, I agree, years later, the Anglo spelling was finally established as Koonce but earlier documents for George Koonce AND our George Kornegay had many different surname spellings. I think on this specific Aug. 1713 document; "Jacob Miller/Muller took these two orphans into his care and appointed to appraise their estates." the surname was spelled Cones.....And [Cones?] is exactly the way Charles Kornegay wrote it in his published book. But I never could understand why Charles did enter Cones [which appears to be the earliest spelling on NC documents], but entered the later established Kornegay [instead of the way it was actually spelled on the earliest NC documents]...Whew! Clear as mud? AND to validate the above I also found at < http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm > New Bern-Craven Co. Public Library-Swiss and Palatines to New Bern and extracted these from a long list: 1. "George Coons, also Cones, currently Koonce; orphaned in 1712, bound to Jacob Miller; 1740 petitioner." 2. "George Kenege 1733 petition (as Carnepy); 1740 petitioner (as Connegue); 1747 petitioner. Present spelling, Kornegay." So currently I am ASSUMING...Kenege IS the earliest surname spelling for our George. But I would like to have a copy of the original document so I can eliminate all of this explaining from my records....KWIM? And as for George Coons>Cones>Koonce, could he be the son: George Kurtz age 37, wife, son age 12, daughters -0- Lutheran? .....see more detailed discernment below Bottom line: The primary reason I want my records to have the original spelling for the surname exactly as written on each document is to see if it is similar to John Krenig the latest *possible candidate* for the father of our George Kornegay. And another reason is: I have the above said facts listed as one [of the several different] "Circumstantial Evidence" for John Krenig family being our Immigrant Ancestors. And other evidence is: John Krenig, Jacob Mueller, Peter Fischer, George Kurtz [and also others familiar names] are all on the:"List of poor German Palatines from the Palatinate who arrived at St. Catherin's [sic] June 11, 1709, taken at St. Catherine's [sic] and Debtford, June 15; all are listed under the heading of Husbandman & Vinedressers and members of Reformed Church, which probably means they all left Germany together; arrived in England at same time; and all, or descendants of all, with same similar surnames are later found on documents in NC as: George Kenege>Carnepy>Connegue [and various other spellings]>Kornegay; Jacob Miller [Muller], Mary Fisher, and George Coons>Cones>Koonce?]. Re: Peter Fischer age 36, wife, sons -0- daughters age 5-2 - NOTE: dates fit for one of these daughters to be Mary Fisher. Although, there is NO proof that Mary Fisher is the name of the first wife of George Kornegay the "circumstantial evidence" is: George & Mary's children gave Fisher as the middle name for their children, i.e., their only daughter Mary named her only daughter by 2nd marriage to DeBruhl, Mary Fisher DeBruhl; their son William named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay [Sr.] and he named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay [Jr]; and Joseph [also son of William] named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay....and there may be others that I am not aware of. And I must reiterate, one evidence that I have that John Krenig IS father of George is based on the fact that he [George and Mary] named their first son John, which could mean he was named after his grandfather John Krenig which does fit the German naming pattern customarily used during this time frame, i.e., first son named after father's father. O heck, I now realize the above does NOT cover everything as exacting as I do have it in my notes section and too late smart, I realize I should have copied/pasted it all...instead of trying to extract portions. And if no one else has all of the above said information, plus more ....which did take hours of grueling work, I will be happy to send what I have to you in order to eliminate you from having to spend time to do what I have already done. Plus, I would also like to get feed back from others, i.e, corrections, additions and opinions, etc. PULEEESE...REMAIN MINDFUL: Although I currently have John Krenig connected as *possibly* father of George Kornegay, I must add I think a possible candidate is also: Johan Genedig, wife and three children in the 3rd party to depart from Rotterdam for London 11 June 1709, and found on the list that arrived in London 20 June 1709 as: John Gnaedig, age 40, Catholic, carpenter Wife, Sons, age 11 and 5, Daughter age 1. Rohrbach thinks Genedig/Gnaedig is an English speaker's corruption of Gnäge [source: 11-20-2004 from Richard Hite that he found in book "Even More Palatine Families" in section for Kornegays by Lewis Bunker Rohrbach]. AND he may be even a better candidate [than John Krenig] for the father of our George based on: he did have 2 sons age 11 and 5 in 1709 and the 5 year old son, does fit to be our George [Kornegay] which would mean he was born about 1704 and also fits to be the "young boy"..."little fellow" from Graffenried's account, which means he would be about age 7 in 1711[and the 11 year old son in 1709 that would be age 13 in 1711 seems less likely to be referred to "young boy"--"little fellow"]. And to reiterate: John Krenig only had one son age 6 in 1709 [=born about 1703] leaving one to have to *assume* he had another son born between June 1709 and September 1711 in order to account for the brother that George told Graffenried had been killed along with the rest of his family. However, the major problem here is that so far I have not been successful in finding the specific said list that Rohrbach apparently found somewhere, and without it, no logical discernment can be made without knowing the other names that are also on this list in order to see if any ended up in NC. Sincerely, ~Kuzin Kathlynn~ **************************************** 7-10-2013 6:49:29 A.M. From: nerokorn@aol.com To: kornegay@rootsweb.com Subj: Re: [KORNEGAY] Early Documents for George Kornegay - Demitri C. Kornegay writes: Kathlynn, My readings regarding what was called the Tuscora Massacre around 1711 had George Koonce as the other survivor who were made Wards of the Governor. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello to All, Kathlynn what I discovered about 10 years ago is that documentation for the original spelling, which would be documents from the ships manifest or documents related to De Graffenreid expedition do not exist. There have been lists made using much later information but nothing concrete. So unless it exists in some attic somewhere there is no list, therefore no correct documented spelling for the name we use today of Kornegay. I have to be content with the knowledge that George Kornegay was the 1st documented Kornegay and go from there. Maybe one day we will get lucky and that list will show up. Good Luck in your search, Sheila -----Original Message----- From: Kathlynn3 <Kathlynn3@aol.com> To: kornegay <kornegay@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wed, Jul 10, 2013 4:32 pm Subject: [KORNEGAY] Fwd: Early Documents for George Kornegay Thanks Demitri, in reference to your message entered at the very bottom, I agree, years later, the Anglo spelling was finally established as Koonce but earlier documents for George Koonce AND our George Kornegay had many different surname spellings. I think on this specific Aug. 1713 document; "Jacob Miller/Muller took these two orphans into his care and appointed to appraise their estates." the surname was spelled Cones.....And [Cones?] is exactly the way Charles Kornegay wrote it in his published book. But I never could understand why Charles did enter Cones [which appears to be the earliest spelling on NC documents], but entered the later established Kornegay [instead of the way it was actually spelled on the earliest NC documents]...Whew! Clear as mud? AND to validate the above I also found at < http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm > New Bern-Craven Co. Public Library-Swiss and Palatines to New Bern and extracted these from a long list: 1. "George Coons, also Cones, currently Koonce; orphaned in 1712, bound to Jacob Miller; 1740 petitioner." 2. "George Kenege 1733 petition (as Carnepy); 1740 petitioner (as Connegue); 1747 petitioner. Present spelling, Kornegay." So currently I am ASSUMING...Kenege IS the earliest surname spelling for our George. But I would like to have a copy of the original document so I can eliminate all of this explaining from my records....KWIM? And as for George Coons>Cones>Koonce, could he be the son: George Kurtz age 37, wife, son age 12, daughters -0- Lutheran? .....see more detailed discernment below Bottom line: The primary reason I want my records to have the original spelling for the surname exactly as written on each document is to see if it is similar to John Krenig the latest *possible candidate* for the father of our George Kornegay. And another reason is: I have the above said facts listed as one [of the several different] "Circumstantial Evidence" for John Krenig family being our Immigrant Ancestors. And other evidence is: John Krenig, Jacob Mueller, Peter Fischer, George Kurtz [and also others familiar names] are all on the:"List of poor German Palatines from the Palatinate who arrived at St. Catherin's [sic] June 11, 1709, taken at St. Catherine's [sic] and Debtford, June 15; all are listed under the heading of Husbandman & Vinedressers and members of Reformed Church, which probably means they all left Germany together; arrived in England at same time; and all, or descendants of all, with same similar surnames are later found on documents in NC as: George Kenege>Carnepy>Connegue [and various other spellings]>Kornegay; Jacob Miller [Muller], Mary Fisher, and George Coons>Cones>Koonce?]. Re: Peter Fischer age 36, wife, sons -0- daughters age 5-2 - NOTE: dates fit for one of these daughters to be Mary Fisher. Although, there is NO proof that Mary Fisher is the name of the first wife of George Kornegay the "circumstantial evidence" is: George & Mary's children gave Fisher as the middle name for their children, i.e., their only daughter Mary named her only daughter by 2nd marriage to DeBruhl, Mary Fisher DeBruhl; their son William named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay [Sr.] and he named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay [Jr]; and Joseph [also son of William] named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay....and there may be others that I am not aware of. And I must reiterate, one evidence that I have that John Krenig IS father of George is based on the fact that he [George and Mary] named their first son John, which could mean he was named after his grandfather John Krenig which does fit the German naming pattern customarily used during this time frame, i.e., first son named after father's father. O heck, I now realize the above does NOT cover everything as exacting as I do have it in my notes section and too late smart, I realize I should have copied/pasted it all...instead of trying to extract portions. And if no one else has all of the above said information, plus more ....which did take hours of grueling work, I will be happy to send what I have to you in order to eliminate you from having to spend time to do what I have already done. Plus, I would also like to get feed back from others, i.e, corrections, additions and opinions, etc. PULEEESE...REMAIN MINDFUL: Although I currently have John Krenig connected as *possibly* father of George Kornegay, I must add I think a possible candidate is also: Johan Genedig, wife and three children in the 3rd party to depart from Rotterdam for London 11 June 1709, and found on the list that arrived in London 20 June 1709 as: John Gnaedig, age 40, Catholic, carpenter Wife, Sons, age 11 and 5, Daughter age 1. Rohrbach thinks Genedig/Gnaedig is an English speaker's corruption of Gnäge [source: 11-20-2004 from Richard Hite that he found in book "Even More Palatine Families" in section for Kornegays by Lewis Bunker Rohrbach]. AND he may be even a better candidate [than John Krenig] for the father of our George based on: he did have 2 sons age 11 and 5 in 1709 and the 5 year old son, does fit to be our George [Kornegay] which would mean he was born about 1704 and also fits to be the "young boy"..."little fellow" from Graffenried's account, which means he would be about age 7 in 1711[and the 11 year old son in 1709 that would be age 13 in 1711 seems less likely to be referred to "young boy"--"little fellow"]. And to reiterate: John Krenig only had one son age 6 in 1709 [=born about 1703] leaving one to have to *assume* he had another son born between June 1709 and September 1711 in order to account for the brother that George told Graffenried had been killed along with the rest of his family. However, the major problem here is that so far I have not been successful in finding the specific said list that Rohrbach apparently found somewhere, and without it, no logical discernment can be made without knowing the other names that are also on this list in order to see if any ended up in NC. Sincerely, ~Kuzin Kathlynn~ **************************************** 7-10-2013 6:49:29 A.M. From: nerokorn@aol.com To: kornegay@rootsweb.com Subj: Re: [KORNEGAY] Early Documents for George Kornegay - Demitri C. Kornegay writes: Kathlynn, My readings regarding what was called the Tuscora Massacre around 1711 had George Koonce as the other survivor who were made Wards of the Governor. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KORNEGAY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Demitri, in reference to your message entered at the very bottom, I agree, years later, the Anglo spelling was finally established as Koonce but earlier documents for George Koonce AND our George Kornegay had many different surname spellings. I think on this specific Aug. 1713 document; "Jacob Miller/Muller took these two orphans into his care and appointed to appraise their estates." the surname was spelled Cones.....And [Cones?] is exactly the way Charles Kornegay wrote it in his published book. But I never could understand why Charles did enter Cones [which appears to be the earliest spelling on NC documents], but entered the later established Kornegay [instead of the way it was actually spelled on the earliest NC documents]...Whew! Clear as mud? AND to validate the above I also found at < http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm > New Bern-Craven Co. Public Library-Swiss and Palatines to New Bern and extracted these from a long list: 1. "George Coons, also Cones, currently Koonce; orphaned in 1712, bound to Jacob Miller; 1740 petitioner." 2. "George Kenege 1733 petition (as Carnepy); 1740 petitioner (as Connegue); 1747 petitioner. Present spelling, Kornegay." So currently I am ASSUMING...Kenege IS the earliest surname spelling for our George. But I would like to have a copy of the original document so I can eliminate all of this explaining from my records....KWIM? And as for George Coons>Cones>Koonce, could he be the son: George Kurtz age 37, wife, son age 12, daughters -0- Lutheran? .....see more detailed discernment below Bottom line: The primary reason I want my records to have the original spelling for the surname exactly as written on each document is to see if it is similar to John Krenig the latest *possible candidate* for the father of our George Kornegay. And another reason is: I have the above said facts listed as one [of the several different] "Circumstantial Evidence" for John Krenig family being our Immigrant Ancestors. And other evidence is: John Krenig, Jacob Mueller, Peter Fischer, George Kurtz [and also others familiar names] are all on the:"List of poor German Palatines from the Palatinate who arrived at St. Catherin's [sic] June 11, 1709, taken at St. Catherine's [sic] and Debtford, June 15; all are listed under the heading of Husbandman & Vinedressers and members of Reformed Church, which probably means they all left Germany together; arrived in England at same time; and all, or descendants of all, with same similar surnames are later found on documents in NC as: George Kenege>Carnepy>Connegue [and various other spellings]>Kornegay; Jacob Miller [Muller], Mary Fisher, and George Coons>Cones>Koonce?]. Re: Peter Fischer age 36, wife, sons -0- daughters age 5-2 - NOTE: dates fit for one of these daughters to be Mary Fisher. Although, there is NO proof that Mary Fisher is the name of the first wife of George Kornegay the "circumstantial evidence" is: George & Mary's children gave Fisher as the middle name for their children, i.e., their only daughter Mary named her only daughter by 2nd marriage to DeBruhl, Mary Fisher DeBruhl; their son William named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay [Sr.] and he named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay [Jr]; and Joseph [also son of William] named one of his sons George Fisher Kornegay....and there may be others that I am not aware of. And I must reiterate, one evidence that I have that John Krenig IS father of George is based on the fact that he [George and Mary] named their first son John, which could mean he was named after his grandfather John Krenig which does fit the German naming pattern customarily used during this time frame, i.e., first son named after father's father. O heck, I now realize the above does NOT cover everything as exacting as I do have it in my notes section and too late smart, I realize I should have copied/pasted it all...instead of trying to extract portions. And if no one else has all of the above said information, plus more ....which did take hours of grueling work, I will be happy to send what I have to you in order to eliminate you from having to spend time to do what I have already done. Plus, I would also like to get feed back from others, i.e, corrections, additions and opinions, etc. PULEEESE...REMAIN MINDFUL: Although I currently have John Krenig connected as *possibly* father of George Kornegay, I must add I think a possible candidate is also: Johan Genedig, wife and three children in the 3rd party to depart from Rotterdam for London 11 June 1709, and found on the list that arrived in London 20 June 1709 as: John Gnaedig, age 40, Catholic, carpenter Wife, Sons, age 11 and 5, Daughter age 1. Rohrbach thinks Genedig/Gnaedig is an English speaker's corruption of Gnäge [source: 11-20-2004 from Richard Hite that he found in book "Even More Palatine Families" in section for Kornegays by Lewis Bunker Rohrbach]. AND he may be even a better candidate [than John Krenig] for the father of our George based on: he did have 2 sons age 11 and 5 in 1709 and the 5 year old son, does fit to be our George [Kornegay] which would mean he was born about 1704 and also fits to be the "young boy"..."little fellow" from Graffenried's account, which means he would be about age 7 in 1711[and the 11 year old son in 1709 that would be age 13 in 1711 seems less likely to be referred to "young boy"--"little fellow"]. And to reiterate: John Krenig only had one son age 6 in 1709 [=born about 1703] leaving one to have to *assume* he had another son born between June 1709 and September 1711 in order to account for the brother that George told Graffenried had been killed along with the rest of his family. However, the major problem here is that so far I have not been successful in finding the specific said list that Rohrbach apparently found somewhere, and without it, no logical discernment can be made without knowing the other names that are also on this list in order to see if any ended up in NC. Sincerely, ~Kuzin Kathlynn~ **************************************** 7-10-2013 6:49:29 A.M. From: nerokorn@aol.com To: kornegay@rootsweb.com Subj: Re: [KORNEGAY] Early Documents for George Kornegay - Demitri C. Kornegay writes: Kathlynn, My readings regarding what was called the Tuscora Massacre around 1711 had George Koonce as the other survivor who were made Wards of the Governor.