Listers - please excuse me for sending this to the list. For some reason, I can't seem to send it direct to Cathy. I've been trying all day and each time, it gets bounced. It's exciting news that I want to share with Cathy so didn't want to delay. Cathy, That sound like extremely good news. The John KNIBBS who appeared under the occupation of Saddler on my web page is indeed the same John. He married Catherine WRIGHT in 1825. She died in 1837 and was the mother of John and Ann in 1826 and 1829. The link on my web page from John the saddler points to his second marriage to Ann WHITE in 1839, the mother of his other 8 children! When I put the data onto the web, I hadn't spotted that both marriages were to the same John KNIBBS. I'll try to put that right asap. I only got the Woodstock data last week, so this is all new to me as well. This is now starting to get very interesting as I'm digging around to try to find more details of your John's father (also John) who married Rachel GRIMMET. I've seen reference to Woodstock in the Deddington details, and the fact that we have Saddlers in Deddington and Woodstock causes me to believe there is indeed a connection between the Johns of Woodstock and Richard KNIBBS/Sarah BIGNELL of Deddington Richard and Sarah had many children, and amongst them there were two sons John and James who "disappeared". Interestingly, we can now see there is a John and a James marrying in Woodstock and I THINK (just think for the time being) that they are the two missing sons. My logic is that firstly, they are of about the right age. John (who married first was the older b. 1762) and would have been aged 23 years. James (married second and the younger b. 1764) would have been 24 years. Unfortunately, I don't know their father's occupation, but I do know that their brother William of the Oxon Yeomanry was a saddler, and their younger brother Thomas was a collar maker between 1795-1814. There were also a couple of children called Richard and Sarah. Finally, if the burial in Sep 1832 of John aged 71 years is this John above, then this too points to John b.1762 (within a year anyway)." The difficulty will be in proving that John and James were sons of Richard and Sarah (making your John the grandson of Richard and Sarah). If we can, then you and I have a connection! - something we've both had a feeling about for ages. Remind me, please - do you have MS Word on your PC? If so, I'll send you the Woodstock data so you can see for yourself. Don