Don/Marsha/Ritchie I've only just picked up on all your correspondence as I've been busy with other matters over the weekend and today. The family is well known to me and indeed we've referred to them often on list. Their tree appears on the RUMNEY website and I have been able to add to it and inform correspondents accordingly eg the fact that Isaac grandfather of the writer Harry Herbert KNIBBS was one of the brothers of Charles. I'm glad that Glenn has made contact and yes it would be great if he had some additional information as there have been conflicting stories. I already have pretty full details about him and his immediate family. Much of my information has come from Ritchie and I was able to correspond for a while with Gordon Charles KNIBBS before he 'lost' his email connection. (GC is in fact the son of George L whom Marsha located on the 1920 census and grandson of Charles supposedly born in Devon or is it Ireland?!) Both GC and son David had visited Don's website. You'll remember the tale about the three brothers in New York who went their separate ways. Other relations have also added bits and pieces of information but more family 'lore' than proven research. This is the first time anyone has mentioned 4 brothers which is an intriguing prospect. Perhaps it was indeed their parents who died at Ellis Island if we go on the basis of 'no smoke without fire'. I can also reveal that I had earmarked two 'contenders' for the third brother, so if indeed there were four then perhaps we may well have them all. Unfortunately, all my efforts to glean further information have met with a rather stony silence in some quarters but we may now be able to progress matters. bfn Alan