At this point ancestry.com just has images; no index. However, that reference was sufficient to get me to the image with a minimum of clicks. So, on the 11th of June, 1900 the enumerator found: dwelling 77, family 78 Knibbs, Albert, head, born Dec 1873, age 26, married 3 years, self & parents born in England, immigrated 1892, in US 8 years, has filed papers but is not yet naturalized, occ. farmer working for himself, can read, write, and speak English, owns his farm with a mortgage. Knibbs, Olive A., wife, born Sept 1877, age 22, married 3 years, one child, self and parents born in Canada, immigrated 1889, in US 19 yrs, can read, write, and speak English. Knibbs, Eveline, daughter, born Sept 1899, age 8/12, single, born in Nebraska, F born in England, M born in Canada. Knibbs, Alex, cousin, born June 1878, age 21, single, born in Canada, parents born in England, immigrated in 1900, 0 years in US, alien, occupation farm laborer. Moines, Thos., boarder, born 1864, age 35, married 12 years, self & parents born in Canada, immigrated in 1900, 0 years in US, alien, farm laborer. a few houses along, in dwelling 82, family 83: ?Broad, James S., head ... Broad, Eliza, wife... Knibbs Herbert, servant, born Sep 1867, age 32, single, self and parents born in England, immigrated 1900, 0 years in US, alien, occ. farm laborer, able to read, write, and speak English. I'll post the image at the yahoo site. Jackari2@aol.com wrote: >Here's an extract from the US 1900 census that Cathy obtained from a fellow >researcher >ND/Pembina/Midland Twp. ED 116-5B >Knibbs, Herbert Sept. 1867, 32, single, England, England, England, immigrated >1900 Farm laborer > >He was Herbert Henry KNIBBS born 8 Nov 1867 in Akeley, a cousin of Albert >KNIBBS, both in Joyce's tree.  We're told that there are other KNIBBS on the >census there. > >Has anyone access to these records at ancestry.com or Heritage Quest?  If so, >could they take a look please to find out who else is there. > >bfn > >Alan > >Alan Jackson >Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study & Mailing List >Website address http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc > >Did you know?  Earlier postings to the list are archived at >http://archiver.rootsweb.com/KNIBB-L/ >Please follow log-on instructions when you first visit! > > >============================== >Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration >Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial.  Click to learn more. >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > -- *Marsha L. Ensminger __________________________________________________________________ Switch to the New Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp

Here's an extract from the US 1900 census that Cathy obtained from a fellow researcher ND/Pembina/Midland Twp. ED 116-5B Knibbs, Herbert Sept. 1867, 32, single, England, England, England, immigrated 1900 Farm laborer He was Herbert Henry KNIBBS born 8 Nov 1867 in Akeley, a cousin of Albert KNIBBS, both in Joyce's tree. We're told that there are other KNIBBS on the census there. Has anyone access to these records at ancestry.com or Heritage Quest? If so, could they take a look please to find out who else is there. bfn Alan Alan Jackson Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study & Mailing List Website address http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc Did you know? Earlier postings to the list are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/KNIBB-L/ Please follow log-on instructions when you first visit!

James emigrated to New York with his Father Joseph KNIBBS and is the ancestor of Ana Knibbs Rizzo who many of us know from this list. We know much about his history in the Fire Service in New York as well as his invention of what was known as the Knibbs Run-around which I believe was a form of safety valve used on the old steam fire engines. I believe the following is a new document on the internet that provides us with a little more knowledge about him: Don An excerpt from Troy's One Hundred Years 1789-1889, compiled by Arthur James Weise, M. A., and published in 1891 by William H. Young of 7-9 First Street in Troy: Arba Read Steam Fire Engine Company, No. 1, informally organized in November, 1859; constitution and by-laws adopted December 19th; first officers elected January 9th, 1860. First engine received March 28th, that year. The engine-house, next north of the present [i. e., 1891] one, on the north-west corner of Third and River streets, was built in 1860; the present one was erected in 1875. The "law relating to the establishment and organization of a steam fire company of the city of Troy," passed by the Common Council, February 16th, 1860, designated the members of the Arba Read Steam Fire Engine Company, No. 1, as firemen of the city, limiting them to sixty persons. On May 24th, 1860, a span of black horses was purchased for the company. On January, 1862, the trustees transferred the apparatus and property to the city. James KNIBBS was appointed engineer of the company February, 1860, which position he filled until December 1st, 1863.

Pooch dognapped during dog show Canadian Press Jun. 29, 2004 10:30 AM LETHBRIDGE, Alta. - Police are investigating, local veterinarians are on alert and fellow dog lovers are on the lookout after a Yorkshire terrier was dognapped from a dog show on the weekend. Glennis Doig said her dog, Cheeky, was taken from his exercise pen Sunday during the final day of the Lethbridge and District Kennel Club's annual dog show and obedience trials. "It was just like she vanished," Doig said Monday from her home in Leduc, about 50 kilometres south of Edmonton. "It's just awful. I can't even imagine how a person would feel who lost their child." Doig said she doesn't think Cheeky got out of the pen by herself because if there was an escape route, the other dogs in the pen would have gotten out as well. The four-year-old female pooch, who weighs less than two kilograms, could have been hidden away under a jacket and snuck out of the football field. Doig and her husband, Mike, travel the Western Canadian dog show circuit 52 weeks a year, setting up a booth to sell dog show grooming and pet supplies. She said the dog show crowd is a "very close-knit community" and she can't believe one of the participants would have taken Cheeky. Andrea Knibbs, organizer of the dog show, said it's unlikely the dog could have escaped from the field, which is fenced in. "Everybody notices a loose dog in a dog show because you never see one," Knibbs said. The police said Cheeky was worth $500, but Doig said it would cost her about $2,500 to buy a new dog.

Hi Alan :) Supporters? Yep, sounds good to me, we William descendants will accept that I think! ;D "Globetrotting pursuer of antipodean NIBBS with European connections" ROTFLMBO Well I've certainly been called worse that's for sure!! ;D But while we're on the "European connections" subject (I know we're not, but I'll mention this anyway! ;D) if anyone wants any research done in Germany I MAY be able to help. I don't speak German which is going to be a major downfall, but a lot of places here DO speak English. So if you'd like anything checked out, just let me know and I'll do my best. As for graveyards, that's an easy one cause I can just locate, wander and snap photos!! :D Take care, Rob. IBSSG Stuttgart, Germany Honey's Home of Genealogy www.honeyshome.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jackari2@aol.com To: KNIBB-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 10:54 AM Subject: [K/NIBB/S] League Tables I've updated the Researchers' page at the website to reflect the number of individuals in each tree within the K/NIBB/S database. The figures take into account the most recent additions from various sources and are correct as at today's date. Having done this exercise, I can for the first time publish here the K/NIBB/S Top Ten, together with some other statistics which may be of interest. Forgive me if I haven't included your name either here or at the Researchers' Page but, if that is the case, please post a message to the mailing list explaining where you 'fit in'. Although I have ascribed a single name to each tree below, I'm fully conscious that often there are other researchers who can claim equal 'rights' to a particular tree. (In my defence, it's still Wimbledon fortnight and I have to pack in a lot of tennis watching along with the typing - Tim HENMAN can also take a toll on the finger nails.) Within the database, there are 36 trees each with over 100 K/NIBB/S and another 28 each with more than 30 K/NIBB/S. The total number of trees is 3328 and of these 1396 are sole entries and 1256 are couples ie with no children or parents ascribed to them. If my maths is correct that leaves 620 trees each having more than 2 K/NIBB/S but less than 30 K/NIBB/S. If nothing else, the figures show just how much 'placing' is still required. Bear in mind also that the trees contain some conjectures on my part which have yet to be confirmed. Hence eg Don's tree might be greater than he has accounted for as he rightly waits until he has validated all entries before including them. I do likewise for Michele's tree but for database purposes it makes sense to incorporate conjectures. Individual researchers can then judge for themselves the validity of the conjectures and/or set about proving/disproving same. One that definitely falls into this category (and needs investigation) is the conjecture linking Rose-Marie's tree with Audrey's - I had wondered why Rose-Marie's tree had grown by quite so much when all others seem to have just risen proportionately, keeping more or less the same ranking. Stewart MOLD's KNIBBs are also there. I'll keep you waiting no longer. Here are the Top Ten:- 1. Don's tree 2. Joyce's tree 3. Sioux's tree 4. Rose Marie's tree 5. Prof John's tree 6. Richard's tree (uniquely this contains some non-K/NIBB/S) 7. Michele's tree 8. Muriel's tree 9. Chris's tree 10. The Fenny Compton tree. Others to note. Marsha and Jo are at number 15. Supporters (if that's the right word Rob?) of William NIBBS, the Swing Rioter, come in at 17. Those NIBBS who can be traced back to Birmingham at 18, Lucky's at 19, the armigerous NIBBS at 20, the US Virginia KNIBBs at 22, Brian's at 23 (good number that :-) and Dave/Laura's Wroxton KNIBB/S at 24. Then comes Robin's at 27 keeping close company with Sir Geoffrey Handley KNIBBS at 29. Last but not least, I would mention Bob's tree which comes in at just under 100 entries at No 37. The actual figures can be seen at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc/page3e.htm As the note there says, once you find your name, do a search on the number in your tree and you can find all those researchers linked to the same tree as yours. Remember to search in both directions. Well a bit of fun, if nothing else! bfn Alan Alan Jackson Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study & Mailing List Website address http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc Did you know? Earlier postings to the list are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/KNIBB-L/ Please follow log-on instructions when you first visit! All mistakes are mine. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

I've updated the Researchers' page at the website to reflect the number of individuals in each tree within the K/NIBB/S database. The figures take into account the most recent additions from various sources and are correct as at today's date. Having done this exercise, I can for the first time publish here the K/NIBB/S Top Ten, together with some other statistics which may be of interest. Forgive me if I haven't included your name either here or at the Researchers' Page but, if that is the case, please post a message to the mailing list explaining where you 'fit in'. Although I have ascribed a single name to each tree below, I'm fully conscious that often there are other researchers who can claim equal 'rights' to a particular tree. (In my defence, it's still Wimbledon fortnight and I have to pack in a lot of tennis watching along with the typing - Tim HENMAN can also take a toll on the finger nails.) Within the database, there are 36 trees each with over 100 K/NIBB/S and another 28 each with more than 30 K/NIBB/S. The total number of trees is 3328 and of these 1396 are sole entries and 1256 are couples ie with no children or parents ascribed to them. If my maths is correct that leaves 620 trees each having more than 2 K/NIBB/S but less than 30 K/NIBB/S. If nothing else, the figures show just how much 'placing' is still required. Bear in mind also that the trees contain some conjectures on my part which have yet to be confirmed. Hence eg Don's tree might be greater than he has accounted for as he rightly waits until he has validated all entries before including them. I do likewise for Michele's tree but for database purposes it makes sense to incorporate conjectures. Individual researchers can then judge for themselves the validity of the conjectures and/or set about proving/disproving same. One that definitely falls into this category (and needs investigation) is the conjecture linking Rose-Marie's tree with Audrey's - I had wondered why Rose-Marie's tree had grown by quite so much when all others seem to have just risen proportionately, keeping more or less the same ranking. Stewart MOLD's KNIBBs are also there. I'll keep you waiting no longer. Here are the Top Ten:- 1. Don's tree 2. Joyce's tree 3. Sioux's tree 4. Rose Marie's tree 5. Prof John's tree 6. Richard's tree (uniquely this contains some non-K/NIBB/S) 7. Michele's tree 8. Muriel's tree 9. Chris's tree 10. The Fenny Compton tree. Others to note. Marsha and Jo are at number 15. Supporters (if that's the right word Rob?) of William NIBBS, the Swing Rioter, come in at 17. Those NIBBS who can be traced back to Birmingham at 18, Lucky's at 19, the armigerous NIBBS at 20, the US Virginia KNIBBs at 22, Brian's at 23 (good number that :-) and Dave/Laura's Wroxton KNIBB/S at 24. Then comes Robin's at 27 keeping close company with Sir Geoffrey Handley KNIBBS at 29. Last but not least, I would mention Bob's tree which comes in at just under 100 entries at No 37. The actual figures can be seen at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc/page3e.htm As the note there says, once you find your name, do a search on the number in your tree and you can find all those researchers linked to the same tree as yours. Remember to search in both directions. Well a bit of fun, if nothing else! bfn Alan Alan Jackson Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study & Mailing List Website address http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc Did you know? Earlier postings to the list are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/KNIBB-L/ Please follow log-on instructions when you first visit! All mistakes are mine.

Don I couldn't find the website but we know of a Thomas KNIBB who was writing such music in the eighteenth century but have not been able to 'place' him with his family. See Rose-Marie's question on the help page http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc/page3h.htm bfn Alan > I just came across a site showing some listings from Wagstaff's new > catalogue of rare old books, for 1780. Amongst the books listed there is one > called "Knibbs Dissenting Psalm Tunes Set to Music". It was on sale for 1 > shilling and 6 pence. > > It was also listed in the next years catalogue so either there were lots of > them around or no-one bought it the first time round. >

Hi Alan :) I'm impressed!!! 50 items? I'd be lucky to remember 10!! ROTFL But you know, they say exercising he mind is a good way to keep it in shape, literally. With my family history of Alzheimer's, I'm starting to think I should be doing more crosswords, anagrams, reading, anything to keep it "moving"!! ;D Take care, Rob. IBSSG Stuttgart, Germany Honey's Home of Genealogy www.honeyshome.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jackari2@aol.com To: KNIBB-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 4:50 PM Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] FW: Betty Knibb,Leigh 1900 Rob > How do you do this? How do you remember everyone?!? It's VERY rare to see > a message from you saying you'd forgotten someone was in a tree, you must > have an incredibly good memory!!!! So, what's your secret, for when > Alzheimer's catches up with me?!? lol Simple. My Atari is always on and I rarely divulge my failures. Though just the other day, I had to ask John who was our link with the Derbyshire KNIBBS because I'd forgotten. Thankfully, he knew which saved me searching through my databanks, those on computers/paper and in head! The gestation period was an impossible one ie a William Sharp KNIBB 01qtr 1866 (died 01qtr1867) and Wilkin George who I reckon is William George 03qtr 1866. I'm still not convinced about these dates/individuals and I take your point re births, particularly bearing (good word in this context :-) in mind late registrations. By contrast, on Tuesday, I did discreetly try to tell a NIBBS descendant that I wasn't wrong about his mother's birth in 1920 not 1922. I don't see how there could ever be an early birth registration. He hasn't replied as yet but I'm ready to discount an earlier birth and death followed by a second child. As for Betty, I was troubled she was not on the 1901 census but she could be Sarah KNIBBS even though 1m there, particularly as I found another West Bromwich District family with a Sarah 5mo in 1901; it was probably she who married in 1925. So take everything I say with the proverbial pinch of salt but I strive to get there in the end. I do have a party trick of remembering 50 items/words given at random by guests and repeating them back either in order or in association with a number between 1 and 50. Anyone can do that though so long as they devise a good enough picture code eg my 23 is a section of the A23 road to Brighton! I see in my mind's eye the word associated with that road, the more comical the better. However, ask me for the names of those in the room and I'm totally useless!! Somehow it's different if someone is the subject of a GRO death record!!! bfn Alan ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hi Alan, Many thanks for your info. I look forward with great anticipation to the missing links! I know quite a lot about Ted, ie Edward Knibb b1902. My Gran's brother. I am at work at present (must join from my home email, so brief reply). Ted moved to Yorks, and is undoubtably the Knibbs who married Selina Bartle. He was a railway worker who had a smallholding and a stone cottage in a village (name escapes me). My mum and family used to go to Yorks in the 20's and 30's, a period of great austerity for them. Gran used to save matchsticks all her life for reuse transferring the flame. My grandad, an intelligent man who drew and sang tenor, was a stoker at Parson's Colliery in Leigh, and did not earn a lot, so these holidays were wonderful for them. My mum remembers a large pig especially.When I was a child I stayed in a B&B in Scarborough owned by, I think, their daughter.Again, kind people. I have more info at home if anyone interested. I'll have another look at my photos. Best wishes, Tony.

Hi Alan :) How do you do this? How do you remember everyone?!? It's VERY rare to see a message from you saying you'd forgotten someone was in a tree, you must have an incredibly good memory!!!! So, what's your secret, for when Alzheimer's catches up with me?!? lol I'm so glad you're "running the show" with we K/nibb/s descendants because if it were ME steering the boat we'd be up the creek without a paddle, trust me!! ;D Take care, Rob. IBSSG Stuttgart, Germany Honey's Home of Genealogy www.honeyshome.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jackari2@aol.com To: KNIBB-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 1:17 PM Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] FW: Betty Knibb,Leigh 1900 Tony Here is the grouping and descendant list as promised. Corrections, additions welcome and I will endeavour to answer all queries. EXTRACT FROM K/NIBB/S DATABASE - 25th June 2004 E&OE Wilkin 'George' KNIBB Born 3Qtr1866 West Bromwich as William George? Baptised Died 1Qtr1902 Broke a leg in mine and led to his death Buried Occupation Coal miner Walsall Wood 1901 as Geo KNS Father John KNIBB Mother Ann RUSSELL (Conjecture her) Married 1Apr1888 West Bromwich Elizabeth GOLDING Born c1864 West Bromwich Baptised Died 1913? Buried Occupation NB remarried and 12 children in total. Father Mother Children ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- John William KNIBB Born 2Qtr1890 Oldbury Baptised Died Buried Occupation Walsall Wood Staffs 1901 as KNIBBS Emigrated - Elizabeth lost touch with him pre WW1 Alfred Walter KNIBB Born 1Qtr1892 West Bromwich District Baptised Died 1Qtr1892 Buried Occupation Ann ('Annie') KNIBB Born 3Qtr1894 Rushall Staffs Baptised Died Buried Occupation Walsall Wood as Annie KNIBBS Spouse Matthew BOWERS William KNIBB Born 1Qtr1897 Walsall District Baptised Died 1Qtr1897 Buried Occupation Norah KNIBB Born 2Qtr1898 Walsall Baptised Died 1Qtr1900 Buried Occupation Florence Mabel Sarah Elizabeth Mary ('Betty') KNIBB Born 21Apr1900 Broomhills Staffs Baptised 15May1900 Walsall Wood Church Died Buried Occupation Moved to Leigh 1913 Spouse Thomas MONKS Sarah KNIBBS Born 1901 High Heath Baptised Died Buried Occupation 1mo Walsall Wood 1901 as KNIBBS Spouse John BICKLEY Edward ('Ted') KNIBB Born 1Qtr1902 Walsall District Baptised Died 3Qtr1965 Richmond Yorks? Buried Occupation Spouse Selina Elizabeth BARTLE John KNIBB 1Qtr1841 - 4Qtr1905 = ( 1Feb1863) Ann RUSSELL c1840 - 3Qtr1885 (This marraige conjecture only) |__Wilkin 'George' KNIBB 3Qtr1866 - 1Qtr1902 | = ( 1Apr1888) Elizabeth GOLDING c1864 - 1913 | |__John William KNIBB 2Qtr1890 | |__Alfred Walter KNIBB 1Qtr1892 - 1Qtr1892 | |__Ann ('Annie') KNIBB 3Qtr1894 | | = ( 4Qtr1913) Matthew BOWERS | |__William KNIBB 1Qtr1897 - 1Qtr1897 | |__Norah KNIBB 2Qtr1898 - 1Qtr1900 | |__Florence Mable Sarah Elizabeth ('Betty') KNIBB 21Apr1900 | | = ( 2Qtr1922) Thomas MONKS bef1906 | |__Sarah KNIBBS 1901 | | = ( 2Qtr1925) John BICKLEY bef1909 | |__Edward ('Ted') KNIBB 1Qtr1902 - 3Qtr1965 | = ( 4Qtr1923) Selina Elizabeth BARTLE 15Aug1901 - Aug1995 | |__Edward Allan KNIBB 5May1925 - Sep1988 | = ( 3Qtr1956) Doreen BOTTOM bef1940 (she remarried) |__Emma KNIBB c1872 |__Sarah Ann KNIBB 2Qtr1882 | = ( 4Qtr1917) Unknown PRICE bef1901 |__Annie KNIBB c1883 Alan Jackson Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study & Mailing List Website address http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc Did you know? Earlier postings to the list are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/KNIBB-L/ Please follow log-on instructions when you first visit! ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Hi Alan :) "I did have Wilkin George as a possible son of another Wilkin but with doubts because of a sibling born to close for comfort. " How close is too close for comfort? Lauren and Robert are only 10.5 months apart, but they COULD have been closer, i.e. I only carried all my babies to 35 weeks, 5 weeks short of full term. Depending on how long ago we're talking about, babies born at 24 weeks today are kept alive and eventually thrive. Modern medicine is incredible!! :D But what I'm supposed to be saying here (sorry, I digressed, as usual ... sigh!!) is that Lauren and Robert could have been 8.5 months apart. It IS physically possible, just highly unlikely!! ;D Take care, Rob.

1. Can you identify Pine Hill kindergarten Cheektowaga NY Emily KNIBBS at http://www.cheektowagatimes.com/news/2004/0624/Front_Page/005.html ? 2. And two young Aberystwyth students who set up a multimedia production company picked up the award for Company of the Year. (Western Mail - at the all-Wales graduate final of Young Enterprise, a charity that aims to encourage people to set up their own businesses). Leanne Knibb and Kay Marshland, both film and television students at the University of Wales, Aberystwyth, set up Moonlight Productions, which produces plays and films and runs educational workshops for local schools and colleges. As joint directors in the company, Leanne and Kay hope to continue with their business venture upon graduation next year. Leanne said, " We are delighted to receive this award and are confident that our experience with Young Enterprise Wales will hold us in good stead for the future." Your relation, Sioux? bfn Alan

Has anyone got spare credit at http://www.1901census.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.html? In the index, there's a Frank KNIBB aged 1 born at Oakley, Bucks and living there with no other KNIBBs. Presumably, he's with another family member (unless in eg an orphanage.) and it would be interesting to know either way. I had surmised Akeley rather than Oakley but looking for Betty this morning I see Frank Samuel KNIBB was born in the Thame District, so Oakley it probably is. Any takers? I have some credits at 1837online to reciprocate. bfn Alan Alan Jackson Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study & Mailing List Website address http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc Did you know? Earlier postings to the list are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/KNIBB-L/ Please follow log-on instructions when you first visit!

Rob > How do you do this? How do you remember everyone?!? It's VERY rare to see > a message from you saying you'd forgotten someone was in a tree, you must > have an incredibly good memory!!!! So, what's your secret, for when > Alzheimer's catches up with me?!? lol Simple. My Atari is always on and I rarely divulge my failures. Though just the other day, I had to ask John who was our link with the Derbyshire KNIBBS because I'd forgotten. Thankfully, he knew which saved me searching through my databanks, those on computers/paper and in head! The gestation period was an impossible one ie a William Sharp KNIBB 01qtr 1866 (died 01qtr1867) and Wilkin George who I reckon is William George 03qtr 1866. I'm still not convinced about these dates/individuals and I take your point re births, particularly bearing (good word in this context :-) in mind late registrations. By contrast, on Tuesday, I did discreetly try to tell a NIBBS descendant that I wasn't wrong about his mother's birth in 1920 not 1922. I don't see how there could ever be an early birth registration. He hasn't replied as yet but I'm ready to discount an earlier birth and death followed by a second child. As for Betty, I was troubled she was not on the 1901 census but she could be Sarah KNIBBS even though 1m there, particularly as I found another West Bromwich District family with a Sarah 5mo in 1901; it was probably she who married in 1925. So take everything I say with the proverbial pinch of salt but I strive to get there in the end. I do have a party trick of remembering 50 items/words given at random by guests and repeating them back either in order or in association with a number between 1 and 50. Anyone can do that though so long as they devise a good enough picture code eg my 23 is a section of the A23 road to Brighton! I see in my mind's eye the word associated with that road, the more comical the better. However, ask me for the names of those in the room and I'm totally useless!! Somehow it's different if someone is the subject of a GRO death record!!! bfn Alan

Alan, Sorry to hear about Wimbledon and even sorrier to hear about England's exit from Euro. Sounds like there is opening in the team for someone who can take penalty kicks. Better still perhaps Australia can be made part or Europe and then you could have a decent team to follow. Sorry about these comments, but I am the long-suffering husband of an English woman who has converted all our sons to barracking for England in football. Not surprisingly though they follow Australia in cricket. Also, before you mention Australia's ranking in football compared to England, you might like to recall the score from the last time our two great teams met. Cheers, David

Hi Alan, Rob and Folks, this then is what I know about the above named, my Grandmother. I have a photo of her at about 17 wearing an army uniform! Slim and attractive, and I believe had reddish gold hair. Later very stout! She was a wonderful person for me, good without being goody goody, a lot of fun, loved to sing, would enjoy a dirty joke, extremely kind and generous, intelligent and interested, empathic, capable of losing her temper, very grounded, and a rock in her family. My Grandad was a nice chap too! Elizabeth Monks, nee Knibb. Full name, I believe, was Florence Mabel Sarah Elizabeth Mary Knibb! Born Methodist 21st April 1900. baptised 15 May Walsall Wood Church. Was one of a large family, Father George Knibb, a miner, who died when she was 3yrs old, the result of breaking his leg in the mine. Mother Elizabeth Golding. Brother Ted, sister Annie. another younger brother John, who she lost touch with before WW1, and we think emigrated somewhere. EG remarried and had 13 children overall, died 1913, when betty moved to Leigh. George Knibb's father, I think his father was named John, and was a carter. Married 1/4/1888 aged 21 so probably born c 1867/5. I don't suppose I would have to trace this limb far without linking with a known branch, but this may be of interest, and may connect now! I've wondered if she descends from the 18th C minister. Best wishes, Tony Mitchell. ------ End of Forwarded Message

Tony Here is the grouping and descendant list as promised. Corrections, additions welcome and I will endeavour to answer all queries. EXTRACT FROM K/NIBB/S DATABASE - 25th June 2004 E&OE Wilkin 'George' KNIBB Born 3Qtr1866 West Bromwich as William George? Baptised Died 1Qtr1902 Broke a leg in mine and led to his death Buried Occupation Coal miner Walsall Wood 1901 as Geo KNS Father John KNIBB Mother Ann RUSSELL (Conjecture her) Married 1Apr1888 West Bromwich Elizabeth GOLDING Born c1864 West Bromwich Baptised Died 1913? Buried Occupation NB remarried and 12 children in total. Father Mother Children ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- John William KNIBB Born 2Qtr1890 Oldbury Baptised Died Buried Occupation Walsall Wood Staffs 1901 as KNIBBS Emigrated - Elizabeth lost touch with him pre WW1 Alfred Walter KNIBB Born 1Qtr1892 West Bromwich District Baptised Died 1Qtr1892 Buried Occupation Ann ('Annie') KNIBB Born 3Qtr1894 Rushall Staffs Baptised Died Buried Occupation Walsall Wood as Annie KNIBBS Spouse Matthew BOWERS William KNIBB Born 1Qtr1897 Walsall District Baptised Died 1Qtr1897 Buried Occupation Norah KNIBB Born 2Qtr1898 Walsall Baptised Died 1Qtr1900 Buried Occupation Florence Mabel Sarah Elizabeth Mary ('Betty') KNIBB Born 21Apr1900 Broomhills Staffs Baptised 15May1900 Walsall Wood Church Died Buried Occupation Moved to Leigh 1913 Spouse Thomas MONKS Sarah KNIBBS Born 1901 High Heath Baptised Died Buried Occupation 1mo Walsall Wood 1901 as KNIBBS Spouse John BICKLEY Edward ('Ted') KNIBB Born 1Qtr1902 Walsall District Baptised Died 3Qtr1965 Richmond Yorks? Buried Occupation Spouse Selina Elizabeth BARTLE John KNIBB 1Qtr1841 - 4Qtr1905 = ( 1Feb1863) Ann RUSSELL c1840 - 3Qtr1885 (This marraige conjecture only) |__Wilkin 'George' KNIBB 3Qtr1866 - 1Qtr1902 | = ( 1Apr1888) Elizabeth GOLDING c1864 - 1913 | |__John William KNIBB 2Qtr1890 | |__Alfred Walter KNIBB 1Qtr1892 - 1Qtr1892 | |__Ann ('Annie') KNIBB 3Qtr1894 | | = ( 4Qtr1913) Matthew BOWERS | |__William KNIBB 1Qtr1897 - 1Qtr1897 | |__Norah KNIBB 2Qtr1898 - 1Qtr1900 | |__Florence Mable Sarah Elizabeth ('Betty') KNIBB 21Apr1900 | | = ( 2Qtr1922) Thomas MONKS bef1906 | |__Sarah KNIBBS 1901 | | = ( 2Qtr1925) John BICKLEY bef1909 | |__Edward ('Ted') KNIBB 1Qtr1902 - 3Qtr1965 | = ( 4Qtr1923) Selina Elizabeth BARTLE 15Aug1901 - Aug1995 | |__Edward Allan KNIBB 5May1925 - Sep1988 | = ( 3Qtr1956) Doreen BOTTOM bef1940 (she remarried) |__Emma KNIBB c1872 |__Sarah Ann KNIBB 2Qtr1882 | = ( 4Qtr1917) Unknown PRICE bef1901 |__Annie KNIBB c1883 Alan Jackson Host at The K/NIBB/S One Name Study & Mailing List Website address http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc Did you know? Earlier postings to the list are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/KNIBB-L/ Please follow log-on instructions when you first visit!

Tony Thank you very much for the additional information. Things are beginning to take shape. I had the marriage but understandably? hadn't linked to Florence Mabel etc etc. I've now placed her with Wilkin George KNIBB and siblings. There were some who died in infancy who I hadn't been able to allocate as of course not on later census returns. Not helped by their appearance as KNIBBS on the 1901 census. However, you having told us that Elizabeth had so many children enabled me to find them and fill in the gaps. I haven't found her re-marriage though from 1902 onwards as either KNIBB or KNIBBS. Do you have any details? I'd also not linked Edward to this family but have now done so but not able to shed any light upon John at this point in time, except that he was John William. Going further back up the line is exercising my mind! I did have Wilkin George as a possible son of another Wilkin but with doubts because of a sibling born to close for comfort. I'm pretty sure now that that Wilkin was an uncle, you having John from the marriage certificate, I guess. Their father was a William from Hinton in the Hedges if I'mnot mistaken, who perhaps married at Lighthorne and with ascendants at Middleton Cheney and thence back to Deddington. More work is required to prove but I'll report here so that other minds can perhaps contribute. I've been keen to sort out the Middleton Cheney KNIBBs for some time as we haven't any researchers with family from there. I'll post a family grouping and partial descendant list in a mo. bfn Alan > this then is what I know about the above named, my Grandmother. I have a > photo of her at about 17 wearing an army uniform! Slim and attractive, and I > believe had reddish gold hair. Later very stout! She was a wonderful person > for me, good without being goody goody, a lot of fun, loved to sing, would > enjoy a dirty joke, extremely kind and generous, intelligent and interested, > empathic, capable of losing her temper, very grounded, and a rock in her > family. My Grandad was a nice chap too! > > Elizabeth Monks, nee Knibb. Full name, I believe, was Florence Mabel Sarah > Elizabeth Mary Knibb! > Born Methodist 21st April 1900. baptised 15 May Walsall Wood Church. > Was one of a large family, > > Father George Knibb, a miner, who died when she was 3yrs old, the result of > breaking his leg in the mine. > > Mother Elizabeth Golding. > > Brother Ted, sister Annie. another younger brother John, who she lost touch > with before WW1, and we think emigrated somewhere. EG remarried and had 13 > children overall, died 1913, when betty moved to Leigh. > > George Knibb's father, > I think his father was named John, and was a carter. Married 1/4/1888 aged > 21 so probably born c 1867/5. > > I don't suppose I would have to trace this limb far without linking with a > known branch, but this may be of interest, and may connect now! > I've wondered if she descends from the 18th C minister. > >

David Yes another disappointment but it was the ref who robbed us by denying what looked like a perfectly good goal very near the end of full time. I had better not ask who won the Rugby World Cup, particularly as the new squad have yet to reach the same heights, to wit, their current tour downunder not helped in their last match by another 'curious' refereeing decision early on in the game. Rather than this banter, let's hear about the antipodean K/NIBB/S sporting heroes! bfn Alan > Sorry to hear about Wimbledon and even sorrier to hear about England's > exit from Euro. Sounds like there is opening in the team for someone who > can take penalty kicks. Better still perhaps Australia can be made part > or Europe and then you could have a decent team to follow. Sorry about > these comments, but I am the long-suffering husband of an English woman > who has converted all our sons to barracking for England in football. > Not surprisingly though they follow Australia in cricket. Also, before > you mention Australia's ranking in football compared to England, you > might like to recall the score from the last time our two great teams > met. >

Tony Thanx for the compliment about the group. I'm having problems with Betty who I can't see in the records born as such. Can you please supply her full name and also the surname of her husband, both of which should help me to locate her within the database. You'll have gathered by the comments that I was at Wimbledon on Wednesday - that's right the day upon which there was no play at all because of the weather. Hoping for better luck next year! bfn Alan > This seems a lovely newsgroup ........ I am wondering if I can tie in with > existing work ....... My Mother's mother was Betty (Elizabeth) Knibb, born > 1901 in Brownhills, Staffs. I have the exact date, and her full name. > > As it's such an unusual name, I wondered if it might be easy to race, but > haven't researched this branch of my family. She was an exceptional person. > Christened a Baptist, she moved to Leigh, lancs, converted to Catholicism to > marry my grandad. > Many people said she was one of the kindest people they knew - a kind of > unpaid community worker. >