In a message dated 14/10/01 17:55:41 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Do we have anyone on the list with connections to Knibbs in Michigan? I have > a Nancy Jo Knibbs who's contacted me via my web page saying she'd like to > know more about the family. > > She is descended from a Henry KNIBBS who emigrated in the early nineteenth century from England. I have lots of info and questions. Her sister has been in contact with me for some time, so perhaps you would mention that. bfn Alan

THIS IS AN EXTRACT FROM THE ABOVE. THE REPORT OF OUR WARWICK GATHERING IS THE LEAD ITEM. 13th October 2001 HI Everyone and welcome to this 72nd GENUKI Family History News It’s about time for my business trips again, so this will be the last GENUKI Family History News for a couple of weeks, I will be back in early November though, so I look forward to reading all your emails then! Hope you enjoy this issue You can find an interesting write up of a recent K/NIBB/s Gathering at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc/page10.htm#1 ........ And finally… I hope there has been something for your interests in this issue –if not why not suggest something for me to reviews or mention! You can always drop me a line to [email protected] Have A Good Couple of weeks, be back in November Rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- To subscribe to Family History News send a message containing the word subscribe to [email protected] Subscription is free --------------------------------------------------------------------- To find out more about the newsletter, or view the archive see http://www.genuki.org.uk/news/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- The contents of this newsletter are copyright by Rob Thompson and GENUKI You may redistribute all or part of the news sections but please mention the source. If you wish to redistribute or copy in any way from any article in the newsletter, please ask permission first! It will usually be granted. Please mention us if you make contact with anyone due to a mention in this newsletter Thank you Rob --------------------------------------------------------------------- Rob Thompson Aylesbury, Bucks, HP19 9QY http://www.galethompson.freeserve.co.uk

Hullo to all you happy pen nibs! Has anyone found any connections (in early 1800s) to families of HALL, PORTER, WELSH, or POPE in the UK- main districts/counties of Nottingham, Kent, Wiltshire or Yorkshire? My William KNIBB PORTER was born in Salisbury in 1835 and there must be a reason why he is named KNIBB - someone suggested once that there was a preacher by the name of KNIBB who was very popular at the time but I have not been able to connect that. Best wishes to all. Wynne

I've just added a few items, a couple arising from the Warwick meeting. Of particular interest, I have found out more about 'KNIBB, The Musical' from Muriel BOLTON. I've spoken to the composer who would be keen for the show to be performed again, ideally from my point of view, to coincide with the bicentenary of William KNIBB's birth in 2003. So I'm now putting feelers out to try and drum up some interest. Watch this space. bfn Alan

In a message dated 12/10/01 08:08:26 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > My William KNIBB PORTER was born in Salisbury in 1835 and there must be a > reason why he is named KNIBB - someone suggested once that there was a > preacher by the name of KNIBB who was very popular at the time but I have > not been able to connect that. > The 'preacher' was the Rev William KNIBB, baptist missionary in Jamaica [Michèle's first cousin, 7 times removed]. After a slaves uprising and his imprisonment in Jamaica, he came to England in 1832 to plead the cause of emancipation and to raise funds for the burned baptist churches. He first persuaded a meeting of the Baptist Missionary Society to support his views against the then policy of the Society and subsequently toured the country making impassioned speeches against the monster that was slavery. The meetings he addressed were attended by masses of people and widely reported in the local press wherever he went. He raised 13,000UKP, a huge amount at the time. He succeeded in turning public opinion against slavery and made an impact on the newly returned MP's elected following the Reform Act. As a direct result, the Emancipation Act was duly passed in Parliament. William KNIBB was truly a hero of the time and his name was so well known that parents in respect for him could have 'borrowed' the name, just as there are BECKHAM's today. Even so I will continue to look for a Miss KNIBB who married a Mr PORTER sometime before 1835. bfn Alan

Bob, I have one London area connection...but not much information: Ann Knibbs -- a spinster married George Brashier, a bricklayer at St. Mary's Parish Church at Lambeth 15, Sep, 1856. Ann's father is listed as John Knibbs a harness maker and George's father is listed as Henry Brashier a laborer. Joseph Brashier and Ann Rusell witnessed the marriage. They were married by Lewis F. Potter, Curate. Ann was born 22 Mar 1829 -- but I don't know where. This date is from her tombstone. George and Ann had a daughter Catherine Fanny Brashier, christened 11 Jan 1857 at St. John the Evangelist, Lambeth. Cousin Ada Watsonn says that she was told that Catherine Fanny died from a fall during infancy in England. She had apparently been left in the care of a "baby sitter" who dropped her. They also had a son born in England -- John Henry Brashier christened 13 Jun 1858 at St. John the Evangelist, Lambeth. I believe the family left England shortly after that but I do not have birth or christening dates for the subsequent sons: Ira, Thomas and Fred who died of spinal meningitis in Crawford Co, WI, USA in 1872. Other children were: Arthur (G.A.?) Arthur drowned in the Mississippi River at Lynxville as a child. My Great Grandma Frye used to cry about it saying that he was playing with a dog and either the dog jumped in or bumped him and he fell into the river. A man standing there saw what happened and later told Ann Knibbs Brashier that he would have jumped in and saved him if he hadn't had on his best suit of clothes...Grandma Fry cried and said she would happily have bought him the best set of clothes he'd ever seen if he'd saved her brother. Alice would have been a very young child -- I believe she was expressing the anguish she had heard from her mother for many years. And Alice Amelia Brashier McCartney Frye-- my Great Grandmother the youngest child. I do not know where Ann, her father John and Ann's brother John were from. Ann and George were my great great grandparents. John Knibbs (Ann's brother) also came to Wisconsin and married Amelia (unknown last name) in 1858 in Mineral Point, Grant Co., WI -- was a Methodist Circuit Minister in that area and died as a result of frostbite from being lost 4 days in a snowstorm during ministerial rounds in 1884. I am looking for information about their children which I believe consisted of three daughters, one named Nellie. I gave you all this extraneous information in case some of the Christian names fit into a family pattern. I hope this is helpful to you. - Cathy ----- Original Message ----- > ... > If you have time I would appreciate a copy of any branch into Lon/Midx > that you have starting with the parents and place from which they came. > >From this I can then notify everyone of any inward outward movements > which may tie in with their own research but has not yet been noted. > > Regards to all > > Bob Knibbs >

Bob, This sounds like a very useful piece of research. From the Warwick meeting I drew the conclusion that there may well have been lots of pockets of Knibbs in London but as yet, with no known common source of origin. The only KNIBBS that I've come across with definite residence in London are as follows. The source for this data, unless identified otherwise is from the PR Transcripts so very reliable. FIRST GENERATION: Frances KNIBBS, bap. 2 Aug 1767 at Deddington Oxon. son of Richard KNIBBS and Sarah BIGNELL, both baptised at Deddington, Oxon. Francis married Mary Ann SODEN, bap. 3 Jan 1794 at Sandford St. Martin, Oxon. We know from Francis will that he was living at No.4 Maberley Place Balls Pond Islington in the county of Middlesex when his will was written in Jan 1852. His occupation when his children were baptised was listed as Saddler or sometimes Saddler & Victualler. He is identified as "Gentleman" in his will. We also know from Francis' will that he remarried to an Ann Unknown somewhen between 1828 and 1838 (source - Francis' will) SECOND GENERATION: Francis & Mary had 5 children: Emily Marianne bap. 25 Jun 1820 at Steeple Barton, Oxon. Edwin George bap. 14 Oct 1821 at Steeple Barton, Oxon (source - IGI) George Edwin bap. 17 Oct 1823 at Westcot Barton (source - IGI) Oxon, bur Steeple Barton 19 Jul 1824 Isabella Mary bap. 30 Aug 1825 at Westcote Barton, Oxon (source - IGI) George Edwin Clark bap. 13 Oct 1828 at Westcote Barton, Oxon (source - IGI) Whilst the last four baptisms are from the IGI, Emily, Edwin George, Isabella and George Edwin Clark are all identified in the will of Francis. The Steeple Barton PR transcript shows that George Edwin died as an infant in Steeple Barton. The IGI says that George Edwin Clark died in the Crimean war in 1854. Francis and his second wife Ann had two children: Jane Ann bap. unknown (source - Francis' will) Francis Edward bap. 30 Sep 1838 at Stepney, London (source - IGI and Francis' will) THIRD GENERATION: Edwin George is believed to have married Elizabeth OMAN at St. Dunstan, Stepney, London (source - IGI) and to have had two children, Edwin William bap. 27 Mar 1844 at St. Dunstan, Stepney, London (source - IGI) and Elizabeth bap. 1 Jun 1845 at St Dunstan, Stepney, London (source - IGI). George Edwin Clark KNIBBS is believed to have married Elizabeth BEASLEY in 1848 at Plumstead, Kent (source - IGI)and to have had two daughters Ellen bap. 1849 at Plumstead (source - IGI) and Emily bap. 1853 at Plumstead (source - IGI). Francis Edward, the son of Francis and Ann Unknown is believed to have married Amelia Unknown in 1872 at Poplar, East london (source - Alan and the GRO). They had two children Francis bap. 1875 at Southward, London (you gave me this from the 1881 census) and Amelia bap. 1878 at Poplar, East London (you also gave me this from the 1881 census). That I'm afraid is where the trail ends. Good luck! Don

In a message dated 10/10/01 21:35:27 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > If you have time I would appreciate a copy of any branch into Lon/Midx > that you have starting with the parents and place from which they came. > I'll include all I find on 1891 Lodon Census which might conceivably connect. Just spent a while sorting out the 3 generations of Henry Theodore KNIBBS. He born c1829 is shown on 1881 census as born St Geo East but in 1891 given as Somerset. His wife shown as Agnes is Agnes Ellen per IGI and GRO. His son is Harry 1881 at Shoreditch [with brothers], baptised I as Henry Francis, registered as Henry and married/died as Henry Theodore. Edwin Samuel and others also fit in here and they are all either publicans, beer sellers etc. No connection with yours at first blush but continuing to look out for them 1891 but definitely not at the addresses discussed previously. bfn Alan

After the meeting at Warwick I have decided to start a Database of all K/nibb/s that have taken up residence in the London Middx area or have passed though to other southern counties. In order to build this Tree I am asking for help from all listers whose research has shown a lead into London/Middx. The idea is to eleminate those already documented and maybe find further links/ individuals not previously associated with that line. This will aid me in identifying the unknowns for further research. If you have time I would appreciate a copy of any branch into Lon/Midx that you have starting with the parents and place from which they came. >From this I can then notify everyone of any inward outward movements which may tie in with their own research but has not yet been noted. Regards to all Bob Knibbs

Alan Thanks for all the E-Mails With regard to Henry and Emma the only other address I have for them is 6 Jubilee street Mile End Old Town but this was in 1895 . Thanks for checking for me BFN Bob K

Bob, Thanks for those final Knibbs from the 1881 census. Unfortunately, I can't seem to relate to any of them. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2001 12:42 AM Subject: [K/NIBB/S] (no subject) > > Don > > I have done a final check of the 1881 census and have found the > following Oxford origin entries. Again hope there might be at least > one you could use. > > Charles R, Knibbs ( Head ) b.Miidx aged 26 Occupation ,Inc from Int .? > Sarah A. Wife aged 26 b, Bicester > Sarah E, Daug aged 12 mths b. Knightsbridge Ldn > > > Mary Knibb 48 Serv house keeper to Donald Cameron > b. Stanton St John > > > > Caroline Knibbs aged 25 Serv Cook to Martha Jackson > ( Any relation to Alan ???? ) > b, Bicester Kathe > > > Thats about all I can find at the moment for 1881 London > But I will of course advise if any earlier ones come to light. > > Regards > Bob K > > > ============================== > Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp >

In a message dated 07/10/01 16:58:05 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > > Caroline Knibbs aged 25 Serv Cook to Martha Jackson > > ( Any relation to Alan ???? ) > > b, Bicester Kathe > > > Nope to me for Martha but I do believe Alan DAVIS can lay claim to Caroline. bfn Alan

Well I can report that the CD's can be searched by area/street but it does take a while. For a trial, I looked for Robert and Charlotte the subject of a recent message from Bob to Don. They were at Allington St in 1881. The street index told me that had changed to Arreway St by 1891 and gave me the piece numbers for the evn and odd sides of the street which were listed separately. Finding each in turn, I searched for the family. None of them were there. Well, I do have a record that when they died a few years later they were in Wandsworth, so now we can guess they moved there pre 1891. I guess there are hundreds of streets in Wandsworth to search, so I'll save for a rainy day. The principle however is established and I did find a KNIBB family at Dagmar Terrace Islington who were in the same street in 1881 and 1891, apart from the fact that Samuel the head of the family died in the interim. This was a random search and I don't in fact have any connections for them. So let me have your K/NIBB/S addresses and I'll take a look/see. Street names will get a huge priority over areas. bfn Alan

..... another University Open Day for Harriet. And this my alma mater. The Library has expanded somewhat from the time I was there. A quick dip into the reference section led me to The Dictionary of English & Welsh Surnames by C W BARDSLEY, published in 1901. KNIBB is there and word for word appears the Isabel nickname wording that appears in the Family Names Origin sheet that Alex KNIBBS kindly brought to Warwick. There's no mention of Edward from Yorkshire but John NYBBE from Somerset appears in the NIBBS entry. (You didn't have to wait too long, Graham!). After repeating the KNIBB entry, some additional material there says "Isabel had a great many nicks, the name being very popular in its day which happened to be the hereditary surname period'. It also gives NOBBS as a contraction of Robert. Well, I remain sceptical but another entry for NIBLET has set me thinking. I've come across this (and variations) and dismissed as being beyond the scope of our One Name Study. But BARDSLEY says this means son of NIB. Perhaps we should keep our eyes pealed for the earliest NIBLETs from now on? I mentioned John NYBBE above and Muriel will be thrilled to learn that a reference for this find is given. It is 'Kirby's Quest page 257'. Who can find Kirby's Quest? There are references for the other names that appear on the Family Origins sheet but these are just numbers which I suspect all relate to published items eg marriage licences in London. A conflict appears. Sarah JOHNSON is given by BARDSLEY as Sarah JOHNAWAY SGHS i 398. An additional entry is William NIBBS marriage to Mary BETTS St george's Chapel, Mayfair p75. Also Isaac KNIBBS who married Elizabeth HAWKINS is given as coming from Northampton - St Antholin London p146. William KNEBB's marriage to Susan AWSTEN would be shown as 1605 in the database rather than 1604, being before 25th March. Seek and ye shall find. bfn Alan

Nail biting stuff eh? For those abroad, we've just qualified for the Soccer World Cup, by a whisker. An awesome swerving Beckham free kick in more or less the last minute of extra time. Also congratulations to S & N Genealogy. I returned from Hull this afternoon to find the promised 1891 London Census had been delivered in the post. There are 38 CD Rom's searchable by areas/streets - not names as far as I can see. So it will take a while to get the most out of them. If you have an ancestor who was in London at the time, I'll gladly start by looking for them if you can give me a clue as to where to look. Next, I'll use the addresses where K/NIBB/S were living in 1881 to see if they are still there, with or without additions, 10 years later. bfn Alan

Don I have done a final check of the 1881 census and have found the following Oxford origin entries. Again hope there might be at least one you could use. Charles R, Knibbs ( Head ) b.Miidx aged 26 Occupation ,Inc from Int .? Sarah A. Wife aged 26 b, Bicester Sarah E, Daug aged 12 mths b. Knightsbridge Ldn Mary Knibb 48 Serv house keeper to Donald Cameron b. Stanton St John Caroline Knibbs aged 25 Serv Cook to Martha Jackson ( Any relation to Alan ???? ) b, Bicester Kathe Thats about all I can find at the moment for 1881 London But I will of course advise if any earlier ones come to light. Regards Bob K

Alan, >Perhaps Carys knows of her anyway > and would be glad if you would check, so that her records can be similarly > updated with what you've now found. If Shirley is unknown to Carys, I'll > have to check my papers more thoroughly. > No problem. I'll drop Carys a note to see if she knows of Shirley. I did a few WESTON lookups in Hook Norton and Swerford and was able to give her some Days and months to go with the years she had for several events, so she was quite grateful. She also asked if I'd mind her mum emailing me as apparently, she's had some contact with Knibbs's that she may want to discuss. Don

BOB/DON > In response to Dons London Connection link > > One Name on Dons tree Francis Edward b 1838 has led to the following > > 1881 Census Listing > Francis Edward Occ Publican Aged 42 (b 1838 ) B Shadwell Bow District > London . He died in Poplar East London aged 61 in 1899 > > Francis ( son ) aged 6 ( b 1875 ) Scolar b. Southwark Ldn. > He could be the one that died in 1920 at Christ church b 1875 > YES OR EMIGRATED TO USA 1912. > Wife Amelia aged 39 b Holborn Ldn (b1841 ) > I have an Amelia who died in 1934 at Totnes aged 93 who was not > born as a Knibbs. Could this be the one ?? > There is no sign of a Marriage listed in the IGI for these two > have you any info, > 04QTR 1872 POPLAR DISTRICT > Further I have an Amelia who died at birth b/d 1878 in Poplar > which could belong to this line . There are a couple of other > still births in Poplar which might fit in to the picture, i will check > and advise. > AGREE > I have Issabella Mary as Marrying in Whitechapel in 1846. > DAUGHTER OF FRANCIS AND MARY ANN NEE SODEN bfn Alan

DON/BOB > Many thanks for yet more information - we must have these K/NIBB/S > gatherings more often! It seems to be all one way at the moment but > hopefully I will be able to return the favour one day and feed back to you. > ...... > > Emily Marianne married a William PHELPS in or around 1839 04QTR 1839 EAST LONDON DISTRICT BFN ALAN

Don/Bob > Joseph Knibbs, born in Deddington around about Feb 1849 married to Elizabeth > I've got Deddington from Census, I guess In Jun 1871, just two and a half years after they married, Elizabeth Ann died. She > was buried at Deddington but alongside the burial entry it says > "Silverstone, Northants" which indicates to me that they were living there > when she died. I don't know of any children from this marriage but believe > that there may well have been one or maybe two. Both Joseph and Elizabeth > were listed in the marriage register as "under age" so I suspect that > Elizabeth became pregnant before they were married. She was still very > young (22) when she died so I wonder if she died at the birth of a second > child? Could there have been Joseph and two baby Knibbs males at > Silverstone, Northants in 1871 when Elizabeth died? > > It would be a fantastic find if someone could confirm it. > > I have attributed a Male birth/death 04 qtr 1869 Towcester District to the couple but that's all. Joseph married Hannah DAVIES 02qtr1874 Aston District if I'm not mistaken. Ties in with JWK born in Birmingham District. Perhaps he who m Poplar 04qtr1900. bfn Alan