Alan, What fun we find in word derivations. I'd have never guessed about tuppence being the fee. But bankers -- my son Travis works for a bank learning to be a financial consultant...but not a Knibbs -- just a relative. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] Remember, remember ..... > In a message dated 27/02/02 13:00:30 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] > writes: > > > > I have a question for you all, now you've mentioned "tuppence" Alan! ;) > > Since hubby watched Mary Poppins recently, he's been singing one of the > > songs to Lauren and he keeps asking me what "tuppence" is. All I could > > tell him was it was money! Anyone know the correct answer? > > > > > > Two pennies. That's old pennies. The D in LSD ie pounds, shillings and > pence. Not the new pennies we use now, abbreviated to p. > > We're getting on to banking now. Any K/NIBB/S bankers out there? > > I hope Lauren liked the film. > > bfn > > Alan > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Isn't the head of a steam hammer/pile driver also called a Tup? Tuppence stood for two pence in my youth. Wynne ---------- From: [email protected][SMTP:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, 27 February 2002 8:10 "pm" To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] Remember, remember ..... Cathy > About "tupped" -- what an interesting word -- so is the ewe always so > accomodating to drop lambs on the exact date? I think medical science ought > to get on that as I know it's a trick I'd have liked to know. > > Not guaranteed, I guess, but nevertheless pretty accurate or so country folk tell me. I've met a couple of TUPMANs in my time and one can readily work out what their ancestor did for a living - although it fell to me to enlighten one of them. I wonder if 'tuppence' has the same derivation ie the price paid at one time for the ram's service?!! There were once KNIBB shepherds at Charwelton and perhaps they could have told us. Perhaps we have some medical scientists on board? The latest contact from America whom I mentioned is a vet. bfn Alan ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Gee, I'm just an American, and I remember the answer to this one (guess I'm getting old). Last time I was in England they were still using twopenny coins. Also threepenny coins - pronounced thruppence. Also an oddity called a half-crown, with nary a crown coin to be found. Drove my father up a wall trying to figure out how it related to the other handfull of stuff he got. If one reads sufficient Agatha Christie, there is a set of detectives named Tommy and Tuppence. They were the subject of some "Mystery" episodes a number of years back. "Robyn Leeds" <[email protected]> wrote: >I have a question for you all, now you've mentioned "tuppence" Alan! ;) Since hubby watched Mary Poppins recently, he's been singing one of the songs to Lauren and he keeps asking me what "tuppence" is. All I could tell him was it was money! Anyone know the correct answer? > >Thanks > >Rob. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, 27 February, 2002 7:10 am > Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] Remember, remember ..... > > > Cathy > > > > About "tupped" -- what an interesting word -- so is the ewe always so > > accomodating to drop lambs on the exact date? I think medical science ought > > to get on that as I know it's a trick I'd have liked to know. > > > > > > Not guaranteed, I guess, but nevertheless pretty accurate or so country folk > tell me. I've met a couple of TUPMANs in my time and one can readily work > out what their ancestor did for a living - although it fell to me to > enlighten one of them. I wonder if 'tuppence' has the same derivation ie the > price paid at one time for the ram's service?!! > > There were once KNIBB shepherds at Charwelton and perhaps they could have > told us. Perhaps we have some medical scientists on board? The latest > contact from America whom I mentioned is a vet. > > bfn > > Alan > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.310 / Virus Database: 171 - Release Date: 12.19.01 > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > -- *Marsha L. Ensminger __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [email protected]! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

> There were once KNIBB shepherds at Charwelton and perhaps they could have > told us. Perhaps we have some medical scientists on board? > Not a medical scientist I'm afraid but a "hobby shepherd". I remember I attended a course at the local agricultural college before embarking on lambing for the first time. Amongst all the nitty gritty details from tupping through to lambing, we were given the gestation period for sheep which I duly forgot. However, speaking to an old farmer, he told me that if the ram goes in on November 5th (firework night in the UK) then the lambs will be born on April 1st (April Fools day). His words were something like "Off with a bang and the ewes daft enough to get caught by the ram will lamb on April Fools Day." So that first year, that was how I worked it out. It's a bit cold in April to be sitting round outside waiting for lambs to be born, so, not being a proper farmer, I aimed for lambing in mid-May when the nights are a little milder. I added 6 weeks to November 5th for the date to introduce the ram, and 6 weeks to April 1st for the date when lambing would begin. To my surprise, every lamb was delivered on the date marked on the calendar! Subsequent years proved that it's pretty accurate to within a couple of days. The origin of the word "tup" is obscure. The ram is called a "tup". He is introduced to the ewes at "tupping time" after which, the ewes have been "tupped". The coloured crayon used to mark the ewes who've been tupped is held in place on the ram with a "tupping harness". The big question and the link to genealogy is:- before November 5th 1605, there was no firework night, so how did my "Ag. Lab." ancestors work it out? Don

Don > The big question and the link to genealogy is:- before November 5th 1605, > there was no firework night, so how did my "Ag. Lab." ancestors work it out? > > Ah but when was the first April Fools Day? Or perhaps another 'Guy' told them ie Guirandus, bishop (of Béziers) whose Saint Day it was on November 5th. Now here's a new line of thought. Which of us have ancestors whose names match the Saint Day upon which they were born? See http://www.catholic.org/saints/stsindex.html and http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~cjcampb/calendar/home.html bfn Alan

.... actually a whole lot more. Take a look at the A2A website <http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk> mentioned below and marvel at the number of K/NIBB/S you'll find there. Or search on any other parameter. bfn Alan *A2A Update, February 2002* The latest update of the A2A website at <http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk> took place on Friday 22 February. The electronic equivalent of 37,000 original catalogue pages was added to the A2A database, which now contains 2.2 million catalogue entries from 130 record offices and other institutions across England. These new catalogues include the first from two A2A projects: *Picks and Pistons* in North East England, and the *Web of Science History*. The *Picks and Pistons* finding aids relate to the industrial heritage of the North East, and include letters of George and Robert Stephenson held at Northumberland Record Office, and archives of the Association of Engineering and Shipbuilding Draughtsmen held by Tyne and Wear Archives Service. The finding aids from the *Web of Science History* project relate to twentieth-century personal papers of various scientists, including the letters and papers of Sir George Lindor Brown held in the Royal Society's archives. The additions also include catalogues of Church of England parish records (and other archives) from two regional projects: *@ the Heart of the Community* in the South West (parish records held in the local authority record offices of Bristol, Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Gloucestershire, Plymouth and West Devon, and Wiltshire and Swindon); and *Governing London* (records of London parishes held in the local authority record offices of Hackney, Lewisham, Southwark, Surrey, Tower Hamlets and Wandsworth, and in London Metropolitan Archives). Further catalogues have been added to A2A from the following consortium projects: *Access to Somerset Archives*; *From Landlord to Labourer* in the South East Region; *Landscape and Archives* in the Eastern Region; *Muck and Brass* in the West Midlands; and *Our Mutual Friends in the North* in the North West Region. The new catalogues also include finding aids for a variety of archives held by Bedfordshire and Luton Archives and Records Service. In a development which enhances the UK archives network, it is also now possible to link to A2A catalogue descriptions from some of the index entries in the online National Register of Archives, available on the Historical Manuscripts Commission's site at <http://www.hmc.gov.uk/nra/>. Lastly, as of 1 February, over 200,000 searches had been performed on the A2A databasesince May 2001, including 55,700 in January, over double the previous month's figure of 21,800. * * * * * * Sarah J A Flynn Regional Liaison Co-Ordinator, A2A Public Record Office Kew Richmond Surrey TW9 4DU Tel (direct line): 020 8392 5328 Fax: 020 8392 5281 Email: [email protected] www: http://www.a2a.pro.gov.uk

Thanks Alan, that's cleared things up a bit for me :) Lauren didn't really pay much attention to the movie, but hubby sure enjoyed it for such a big kid! ;) Rob. ---- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 27 February, 2002 9:55 am Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] Remember, remember ..... In a message dated 27/02/02 13:00:30 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > I have a question for you all, now you've mentioned "tuppence" Alan! ;) > Since hubby watched Mary Poppins recently, he's been singing one of the > songs to Lauren and he keeps asking me what "tuppence" is. All I could > tell him was it was money! Anyone know the correct answer? > > Two pennies. That's old pennies. The D in LSD ie pounds, shillings and pence. Not the new pennies we use now, abbreviated to p. We're getting on to banking now. Any K/NIBB/S bankers out there? I hope Lauren liked the film. bfn Alan ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.310 / Virus Database: 171 - Release Date: 12.19.01

In a message dated 27/02/02 13:00:30 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > I have a question for you all, now you've mentioned "tuppence" Alan! ;) > Since hubby watched Mary Poppins recently, he's been singing one of the > songs to Lauren and he keeps asking me what "tuppence" is. All I could > tell him was it was money! Anyone know the correct answer? > > Two pennies. That's old pennies. The D in LSD ie pounds, shillings and pence. Not the new pennies we use now, abbreviated to p. We're getting on to banking now. Any K/NIBB/S bankers out there? I hope Lauren liked the film. bfn Alan

I have a question for you all, now you've mentioned "tuppence" Alan! ;) Since hubby watched Mary Poppins recently, he's been singing one of the songs to Lauren and he keeps asking me what "tuppence" is. All I could tell him was it was money! Anyone know the correct answer? Thanks Rob. ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 27 February, 2002 7:10 am Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] Remember, remember ..... Cathy > About "tupped" -- what an interesting word -- so is the ewe always so > accomodating to drop lambs on the exact date? I think medical science ought > to get on that as I know it's a trick I'd have liked to know. > > Not guaranteed, I guess, but nevertheless pretty accurate or so country folk tell me. I've met a couple of TUPMANs in my time and one can readily work out what their ancestor did for a living - although it fell to me to enlighten one of them. I wonder if 'tuppence' has the same derivation ie the price paid at one time for the ram's service?!! There were once KNIBB shepherds at Charwelton and perhaps they could have told us. Perhaps we have some medical scientists on board? The latest contact from America whom I mentioned is a vet. bfn Alan ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.310 / Virus Database: 171 - Release Date: 12.19.01

Cathy > About "tupped" -- what an interesting word -- so is the ewe always so > accomodating to drop lambs on the exact date? I think medical science ought > to get on that as I know it's a trick I'd have liked to know. > > Not guaranteed, I guess, but nevertheless pretty accurate or so country folk tell me. I've met a couple of TUPMANs in my time and one can readily work out what their ancestor did for a living - although it fell to me to enlighten one of them. I wonder if 'tuppence' has the same derivation ie the price paid at one time for the ram's service?!! There were once KNIBB shepherds at Charwelton and perhaps they could have told us. Perhaps we have some medical scientists on board? The latest contact from America whom I mentioned is a vet. bfn Alan

Alan, Your notes are always so interesting. Don had mentioned Hilda to me -- being from Woodstock we are most likely in the same branch or close. About "tupped" -- what an interesting word -- so is the ewe always so accomodating to drop lambs on the exact date? I think medical science ought to get on that as I know it's a trick I'd have liked to know. Cathy From: <[email protected]> > ........ the Black Sheep Index? > > > > Henry R KNIBBS and James Frederick KNIBBS can now be linked to Hilda ELLIOTT ... > ........ my French pote KNIBB/S finder > > ....... the 5th of November? > > Any sheep tupped then will be lambing on 1st April. I kid you not!! But > I've lost the plot, so will light the blue touch-paper and retire.

........ the Black Sheep Index? The KNIBB there is Charles who died 1864, aged 40, in Liverpool by falling downstairs when inebriated. Interestingly I have him baptised as Charles Bartholomew NIBBS in Spalding, Lincs and think there is an Oundle connection. He was a bookeeper and had just lost his job as a result of his drinking habits, according to the press report. Now who wishes to claim him? I have quite a few relatives in the database to go with him! Not you, Rose Marie, as far as I can tell - enjoyed the weekend chat. The 'KNIBBS' on the Police Index was a PC in Portsmouth in 1905 who made a capture it seems but I'm not intending to fork out the required £6 fee to find out more about that event. Probably little genealogical info anyway. ........ the WW1 in memoriam listing on the website? Henry R KNIBBS and James Frederick KNIBBS can now be linked to Hilda ELLIOTT who has contacted Don and whose family has been traced back to Woodstock. I've just been contacted by an American KNIBB whose grandfather fought in WW1 in the British army it seems. Hopefully will have something to report next week. I've an inkling that another war victim is related. ........ my French pote KNIBB/S finder He has found me a researcher looking for KNIBBS in Oxfordshire, so will Don's tree in the database soon reach the 1,200 mark. Awaiting contact. ....... Ron HANDS' lost address? Sorry George, I meant you not Dennis KNIBBS. I eventually found a letter from Ron in my archives and, yes Sioux, it was one of those you found for me. Hope the KNIBB Stoke Goldington family grouping was of some use. ....... those Buckingham/Brackley KNIBBS kindly submitted by Richard KNIBBS? Well I found some more info for Chris than I posted and can share off-list with anybody else related. Roll on 1901 census for Qainton KNIBB/S. ........ the Broadmead Baptist Church article re William KNIBB? I mentioned it here a while ago and put a link on the website. Marsha trying to drum up support for a bicentenary remembrance in the States spotted that my link was to the wrong Broadmead church! Oops!! Now corrected. ........ To be, or not to be Not one of mine. But take a look see at http://members.aol.com/lolathrop/roman/iv.html for a most interesting article about the figure IV on a clockface, with a picture of one of Joseph KNIBB's to boot. ....... the 5th of November? Any sheep tupped then will be lambing on 1st April. I kid you not!! But I've lost the plot, so will light the blue touch-paper and retire. bfn Alan List Administrator and host at <A HREF="http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~knibbetc/">THE K/NIBB/S ONE NAME STUDY website</A> Did you know? Earlier postings to the list are archived at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/KNIBB-L/ Please follow log-on instructions when you first visit!

In the word of an old musichall song I've got sixpence" jolly jolly sixpence" I've got tuppence to spend - tuppence to lend - and twopence to take home the wife" Aud

Chris > I would be interested in further information regarding the Whitfield > Connection. > > This is what I have put together, having taken out details of persons who I think are still alive. I think you will know where George at the top of the listing fits in. George KNIBBS 30Mar1861 - 4Qtr1934 = (11May1884) Hannah NIND 18Sep1858 - 4Qtr1893 |__Charles Ernest KNIBBS 22Jun1884 - 1907 | = (14Jul1906) Nelly SEYMOUR 1887 | |__Thomas Roland KNIBBS 20Jul1907 - 8Jun1964 | = (18May1929) Rennie WOODNORTH 22Jan1913 - Jan1994 | |__Dennis KNIBBS 14Nov1934 - 31Aug1994 | |__Frances Louie KNIBBS 2Qtr1886 - 1970 | = UNKNOWN |__Ethel Mary KNIBBS 3Qtr1888 | = |__Joseph Alfred KNIBBS 2Qtr1890 |__Florence Edith KNIBBS 3Qtr1893 - 1Qtr1894 = (14Jun1894) Sarah ALLEN 10Jun1860 - 6Feb1895 |__Florence Edith KNIBBS 3Qtr1894 = ( 7Dec1895) Sylvia Ann ROBERTS c1867 - 4Qtr1933 |__John Jesse ('Jack') KNIBBS 3Qtr1896 - 9Nov1918 |__Lillian Mary D KNIBBS 3Qtr1898 | = ( 3Qtr1921) Unknown CLARIDGE b1906 |__Mary Ann Evelyn KNIBBS c1900 | = ( 2Qtr1921) Unknown SHARP bef1905 |__William George Cecil KNIBBS c1902 - 4Qtr1950 | = UNKNOWN | |__Male KNIBBS | |__Albert Stanley KNIBBS 1Oct1923 - Dec1989 | |__Male KNIBBS | | = ( -) Spouse | |__Keith William KNIBBS 26Sep1932 - 12Jun1989 | = ( -) Spouse |__Lily KNIBBS c1903 - 1Qtr1919 |__Unknown KNIBBS c1906 bfn Alan

Hi Alan I would be interested in further information regarding the Whitfield Connection. Many thanks Chris Riley

Hi Do not know if anyone has these on their tree but I found the following in Buckingham church yard. Keith William Knibbs, died 12th June 1989 aged 56 John Knibbs. 17th October 1926 - 25th February 1983 Richard

Hi I would like to know if there are any listed in Quainton please. Thanks Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 11:25 PM Subject: [K/NIBB/S] (no subject) > > Alan and fellow listers > > I was able to visit the FRC today and have conducted a > session on the 1901 Census . > > Due to time/Money constraints and only being allowed > an hour on the machine . ( Getting used to their printing > system cost me 15 minuites ). I have managed to obtain > the following . > > Index listings of all John / Henry / William Knibbs. > > If any one needs to research these particular names > I can confirm them on these lists. > > I have traced my family i.e. > Henry Knibbs m Emma Briscoe > living at 72 Clark St Mile End Old Town. > Unfortunately no surprises there. > > Further I have come accross one entry of interest in the > Henry section. > > St lukes District London St Matthews Parish City Rd London > > Henry Knibbs b St Lukes aged 64 Captain of Canal Boat ( Named Ebony ) > Henry Knibbs Son b Warwick Aged 18 ( Son ) Boatman. > > (I think this is one for you Alan ). > > Don > > Whilst going through I called up Deddington > > There are only two Knibbs listed in that area > John and James Knibbs. > I could only get details of John (Aged 55 ) b Deddington, Iron Ore Miner > m Cecilia ( a 47) b Bucks > sons > John ( a 27 ) Iron Ore Miner > and George ( a 15 ) General Labourer > > I hope this helps / I have a copy of the entry here / so do not > purchase from the PRO. > > Cathy > > I tried to find an Index for Lambeth at both the FRC and London > Metropolitan Libraries to no avail. I hope to check the SOG on > Thursday. Will keep you posted > > Regards to all > > Bob Knibbs > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Richard Thanx for these and I would comment as follows - > Do not know if anyone has these on their tree but I found the following in > Buckingham church yard. > > Keith William Knibbs, died 12th June 1989 aged 56 He was a Chauffeur, one of four brothers I have conjectured from Maids Moreton. The family can be traced back to Whitfield [Brackley] and we do have some K/NIBB/S researchers who are connected. > > John Knibbs. 17th October 1926 - 25th February 1983 > The GRO Indices have him as John Federick G KNIBBS but gives his birth date as 17 Oct 1920. I've not placed him as yet. Best of luck with your Quainton quest. bfn Alan

...... last weekend in the Lake District - well our leader took a wrong turn but soon sorted out. Since then. Brian NIBBS has told me of a problem encountered when attempting to send a message to the mailing list. As it could apply to others, I'll repeat it here. His email is set up in html format ie not plain ascii text. Rootsweb rejects html as it can do strange things in some browsers. So if you've sent off a message which hasn't appeared, perhaps the same applies to you. Most browsers can be easily configured to send in either format. One item Brian wanted to mention, [stealing his thunder], does anyone know of the Maria Knibbs who appears in the credits of 'Who wants to be a Millionaire'. And I would add, why only one n in the spelling of Millionnaire? Someone I want to trace is Ron HANDS. He sent me this week by snail-mail a family grouping of KNIBBS appearing in the 1901 census at Aston - lucky blighter for seeing it already! I can't lay my hands on earlier correspondence with Ron many moons ago, so does anyone else know where he lives? I think the Birmingham area and he probably viewed the census at the Birmingham library. I do know that he is also in touch with Dennis' cousin Ray in Derby [similarly not on email], so if all else fails I can write to him. And would you believe it, Don has just today been contacted by a descendant of one of those appearing on the census. Stranger than fiction, eh? Another contact, who prefers to remain anonymous at present, has told me all about his direct line of KNIBBS ancestors to five generations. I can take him further back and have traced siblings along the way but need his consent before introducing to others. As yet I know very little about his immediate family. I have at least been able to tell one related researcher I know of his existence, so nobody else is missing out. Then I was asked by the sister of a NIBBS if I was in contact with her brother who she's not seen for 9 years. I thought I recognised the name but I was wrong but happily dealt with it all tactfully so no one put out. Just shows though how careful one must be re such things, as evidenced by yet another contact. This from a person whose biological father was a KNIBB but who knew very little about him and his family. He wasn't really sure that he should be enquiring. However, on the snippet he gave me, I honed in on his father straightaway and in the end my correspondent was keen to have the information though given in strict confidence without disclosing the identities of any living persons. I'm awaiting further contact before I can follow up on this. All without the aid of IGI batch numbers but I'm glad that website has been of interest and help to at least 4 listers who have contacted me direct. At home this weekend, if anyone wants a chat or me to look up something for them - between doses of Winter Olympics that is. bfn Alan

All I went into this web sight and found that in some cases there were no males listed in the batches. I went into Akeley and there are only females christenings and marriages. I also searched other places in Scotland and found that there were males here. I am going to try and send a message to the LDS to see why there are no males for some parishes. If anyone has an answer please let me know. bfn Joyce [email protected] wrote: > All > > Here's a fabulous site that enables you to search for your ancestors by > surname in a particular place. This contrasts with familysearch.org where > you have to do it by country. > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm#Page > > Just go to the country of choice near the end of the page and form there pick > a county/town, click on a corresponding batch number, then input the name you > are searching in the box that appears top left and voila. > > bfn > > Alan > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237