Re No sign of Isaac:- Sorry, he's already married aged 36 born England at a separate address in Erie Co with wife Phoebe. Re William bap 1823 I'm not sure now from where this info came if not you Don. I have William bap 15 Nov 1823 Deddington Re Labourer/weaver Thanx for the info. It would make David the odd one out, if two Johns, but as David's with the others in NY looks as if only one. I suspect a wrong attribution of occupation in the Parish register (or copy), rather than a change of job by him. Re John m Mary Ann HALL Can we be absolutely confident it was this John? A mite young on reflection if bap 1816 and marrying 1834? Re John & Amelia Cathy's I see. Re Emily KNIBBS m Richard HOLLOWAY With Edwin connections I seem to recall. I'd forgotten about her also emigrating. bfn Alan

Bridget told us about this site. Here's a sample of what you can find. bfn Alan GB Patents Photodetector fabrication Requested Patent: GB2316223 A Publication date: 1998-02-18 Inventor(s): KNIBB TERENCE FREDERICK Applicant(s): MARCONI CO LTD (GB) Application Number: GB19850008773 19850403 Priority Number(s): GB19840008542 19840403 IPC Classification: H01L21/44 Identifying nerve axons Requested Patent: GB2261067 Publication date: 1993-05-05 Inventor(s): KNIBB TERENCE FREDERICK Applicant(s): BRITISH AEROSPACE (GB) Application Number: GB19910023118 19911031 Priority Number(s): GB19910023118 19911031 IPC Classification: A61B5/0 ; A61B6/0 Filter Requested Patent: GB2250449 Publication date: 1992-06-10 Inventor(s): KNIBBS RICHARD HOPE Applicant(s): LSS CONSULTANCY LIMITED (GB) Application Number: GB19900026501 19901205 Priority Number(s): GB19900026501 19901205 IPC Classification: B01D29/4 ; B01D35/2 Waste immobilisation Requested Patent: GB2164265 Publication date: 1986-03-19 Inventor(s): THOMAS MARTIN JAMES; KNIBBS RICHARD HOPE Applicant(s): ATOMIC ENERGY AUTHORITY UK Application Number: GB19850020356 19850814 Priority Number(s): GB19840023170 19840913 IPC Classification: G21F9/16 WINDSCREEN WIPER Requested Patent: GB2124477 Publication date: 1984-02-22 Inventor(s): KNIBBS GEORGE Applicant(s): SAFEWYPE INT LTD Application Number: GB19820022172 19820731 Priority Number(s): GB19820022172 19820731 IPC Classification: B60S1/38 Support for spectacles Requested Patent: GB2267358 Publication date: 1993-12-01 Inventor(s): LAZARUS MARK JAMES; NIBBS TERRENCE GEORGE Applicant(s): LAZARUS MARK JAMES (GB); NIBBS TERRENCE GEORGE (GB) Application Number: GB19930005247 19930315 Priority Number(s): GB19920011088 19920522 IPC Classification: G02C5/12 [Both of Brentwood, Essex] WORLDWIDE ENTRIES [Some previously reported on list] KNIBB Patent Number Title GB2316223 Photodetector fabrication US4259679 Display devices US4224116 Display devices US3493494 No title available. US3491951 No title available. US3386664 Bottle closure assembly for an atomizer US3322349 Apparatus and system for dispensing hair preparations US3190502 Apparatus for dispensing liquid shampoo US3078471 Liquid dispensing apparatus US2928660 Ice cream freezers US2845658 Collapsible mandrel for use in fabricating plastic pipe US2828113 Ice cream freezer US2649956 Display case for wrist-watch bands US2546603 Method of ornamenting coil spring wristbands US2488668 Ice-cream freezer US2416326 Ice-cream freezer US2278617 Refrigerator ice cream freezer GB2261067 Identifying nerve axons FR2377677 No title available. FR1202961 No title available. KNIBBS Patent Number Title FR752593 No title available. GB940813 Improvements in or relating to the formation of granules, pellets and the like GB896829 Improvements in or relating to the cleaning of small stone and other hard discrete material GB884758 A forward and reverse gear control for locomotives and railcars GB763110 Improvements in or relating to the hydration of lime GB919308 Improvements in or relating to fluidized bed apparatus GB911903 Improvements in or relating to fluidized bed apparatus GB929686 Improvements in or relating to the heat treatment of solid materials GB799379 Improvements in and relating to spinning machines GB795654 Improvements in or relating to the heat treatment of finely-divided solids GB795653 Improvements in or relating to the heat treatment of finely-divided solids GB787993 Improvements in or relating to the conversion of powdered materials into pellets GB1146300 Improvements in or relating to the formation of granules, pellets and the like GB963738 Improvements in engine starting systems GB962309 Improvements in driving mechanisms for diesel driven locomotives, railcars and the like GB1120838 Improvements in the compression of materials GB1100265 Yarn collecting apparatus CH179260 No title available. DE3765363D No title available. DE3761742D No title available. NIBBS Patent Number Title US6287805 Nucleic acid molecules of the protein-coupled heptahelical receptor superfamily and uses therefor EP1129193 CHEMOKINE BETA-7 EP1064395 NOVEL MOLECULES OF THE G PROTEIN-COUPLED HEPTAHELICAL RECEPTOR SUPERFAMILY AND USES THEREFOR AU1716300 Chemokine beta-7 WO0028035 CHEMOKINE beta -7 WO0015663 MIP-1 alpha ISOFORM LD78 beta AND USES THEREOF AU5875799 Mip-1alpha isoform ld78beta and uses thereof AU3194099 Novel molecules of the g protein-coupled heptahelical receptor superfamily and uses therefor WO9947697 NOVEL MOLECULES OF THE G PROTEIN-COUPLED HEPTAHELICAL RECEPTOR SUPERFAMILY AND USES THEREFOR US2128469 Evaporator US2081016 Flexible coupling US2025524 Evaporator for submarines US2019026 Electric drive US2019025 Electric drive US1993179 Internal combustion engine US1920280 Submarine propulsion US1881876 Disconnecting gear US1778200 Piston and ring mounting therefor US1777325 Piston ring and piston construction US1751653 Engine construction

In a message dated 18/03/2002 02:32:16 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > The url for Patent is http://gb.espacenet.com/ > It's different to the one I was thinking of. Will take a look-see. Many thanx. bfn Alan

Bridget > Have you searched this database for K/Nibbs inventors? If not, I had a > brief look and came up with heaps of them from around the world including > UK, it gives addresses of the inventors also which is handy in finding > people. Thought you would find it interesting. > I've downloaded from one American website but not sure if it's the one you are referring to. Perhaps you could supply the url. bfn Alan

Alan, Trying now to digest the information you sent earlier to the list. > In one household at Niagara, we find (via excruciating > handwriting) David NIBBS 23 or 73 (I'm going for the former) with > Anne 53, Naomi 30, Charles 28, and Ellen 20 all born England. > Ellen, bless her, is our linchpin. I firmly believe she is the > one baptised at Deddington on 5th or 15th November 1829 to > parents John and Ann. > Now they had a son David baptised 31 December 1836, also in > Deddington. No sign of Isaac, Charles or Naomi but read on. > There is a Nehemiah baptised 25th April 1819. Now we need to > check as carefully as we can that this is Nehemiah, a male > presumably and that Naomi is definitely recorded as such. In > some ways I hope so because I have another theory re Nehemiah - > see later. Yes, I can see Ellen bap 5 Nov 1829 and David bap 31 Dec 1826 (not 1836 as above which I guess is a typo). I did also wonder if Naomi could perhaps be Nehemiah bap 25 Apr 1819. Ann aged 53 could well be Ann Aldridge as I have no confirmed birth/bap date for her. You say no sign of Isaac, but Isaac isn't shown in your list in the Niagara household, so confused by that? > > There's no baptism for Charles in Deddington born on > 15th February 1821, perhaps born in Ireland or Devon. If you > look at the family grouping below, he would fit very nicely > between Nehemiah and William. I can't see a William bap 1823 at Deddington? Nevertheless, I agree that there is a good gap between the baptisms I have seen for Charles to have been born to John and Ann at around this time. > > Now, there is an Isaac who was baptised at Somerton in 1824 to > 'another' John and Ann. Somerton is close to deddington and the > birthplace of Ana's ancestors. Was this baptism in reality a > late baptism for the unbaptised Isaac bc1814? I would suggest so, > as ther's no further trace of any such Isaac in England. What is > 'troublesome' though, is that John the father is described as a > brickmaker whereas the John we've mentioned earlier was a > labourer/weaver. It's the waever description that doesn't fit. > Don could you please look closely at the references in the > Deddington parish records and consider, taking into account the > 1850 census, whether there were two separate John/Ann families or > just the one. I agree there was an Isaac baptised on 15 Feb 1824 at Somerton to parents John KNIBBS and Anne (with an "e"). I hadn't previously connected this with John and Ann Aldridge. As you say later, Deddington John is identified as a labourer/weaver and Somerton John a brickmaker. I note that Deddington John is listed as a labourer up until Nehemiah's baptism in 1819. The next event in the PR is the baptism of David in 1826, when John is listed as a weaver. I suspect that brickmaking wasn't a highly skilled job, so moving from labourer to brickmaker wouldn't be a big step. We know he did progress from labourer to weaver which I guess is the difficulkt step to understand. > > .......... we can say that Ann died after 1850 whilst > husband John was probably not then alive. I've never come across burials that I have matched to either John or Ann so no reason to doubt that they may have died in America. > > What of siblings William, John and Nehemiah (if not Naomi)? I have John marrying Mary All HALL at Enstone in 1834, but no sign of them after that time so assume they moved away from the area. All I have so far for Nehemiah, David and Ellen is their baptisms at Deddington, and then nothing, so they clearly went somewhere. The relationships I've calculated between John KNIBBS (husband of Ann ALDRIDGE) at the top of this line to those of my line who I know emigrated to America is as follows: - 2nd cousin once removed of John KNIBBS who married Amelia Unknown and emigrated to Wisconsin before 1858. - 2nd cousin once removed of Joseph KNIBBS who married Hannah BENNETT and emigrated to New York in about 1840. - 1st cousin twice removed of Emily KNIBBS who married Richard HOLLOWAY and appears in New York prior to British Columbia, I think after 1881. Not sure if these latter facts add any value - probably not! Anyway Alan, it's certainly a very credible solution that you've put forward and on the face of it, confirmation of just a few of the facts would prove it all one way or the other. A tremendous thanks also to Marsha for the extracts from the New York census that enabled Alan to fit it all together! Thanks Marsha! Don

Alan, You must be mentally exhausted having worked through, remembered and presented that lot! I'm unfortunately pushed for time this weekend so have only had time for a quick read through - as I'm sure you'll agree, it needs more than a quick look.I will certainly give it my full attention in the week. Many thanks, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 9:14 PM Subject: [K/NIBB/S] Eureka! .......... > ........ I think!! > > Thanx to Marsha having extracted various NIBBS from the 1850 New > York census (with names originally supplied to me by Graham), we > can begin to make some pretty strong conjectures concerning > Charles KNIBBS at the top of Ritchie and Glenn's chart. If I'm > right it brings together all Don's family eg Ana, Cathy, > Natascha, Dennis, Trevor etc under the same umbrella. And you > are all related to Harry Herbert KNIBBS the cowboy poet - not > SHAKESPEARE per Ritchie but who knows!! > > I can't as yet see a connection to William KNIBBS at the head of > Karen DWYER's Wisconsin KNIBBS chart (Her Alfred was at Herkinmer > Co, NY in 1850) but Charles was in Wisconsin in 1860 and the name > William does crop up in his family. There's also the possibility > of incorporating a whole host of Canadian KNIBBS, unrelated to > Joyce but she is helping me to trace their origins. > > Part One. Let me explain. > > In one household at Niagara, we find (via excruciating > handwriting) David NIBBS 23 or 73 (I'm going for the former) with > Anne 53, Naomi 30, Charles 28, and Ellen 20 all born England. > Ellen, bless her, is our linchpin. I firmly believe she is the > one baptised at Deddington on 5th or 15th November 1829 to > parents John and Ann. > > Now they had a son David baptised 31 December 1836, also in > Deddington. No sign of Isaac, Charles or Naomi but read on. > There is a Nehemiah baptised 25th April 1819. Now we need to > check as carefully as we can that this is Nehemiah, a male > presumably and that Naomi is definitely recorded as such. In > some ways I hope so because I have another theory re Nehemiah - > see later. > > There's no baptism for Charles in Deddington but as you will all > know from recent correspondence, the one of interest was born on > 15th February 1821, perhaps born in Ireland or Devon. If you > look at the family grouping below, he would fit very nicely > between Nehemiah and William. The fact that a Charles is with > the family in 1850 is a clincher for me, everyting else being > equal. Perhaps John and Ann did leave Deddington for a while at > least. i have a hunch, but it is only a hunch, that John and > sons may have gone to the tin mines of Devon/Cornwall seeking > work, only to find them exhausted which led to emigration, after > a brief further sejour in Oxfordshire. relative KNIBBS were > already in New York by this time. > > You will see that I have listed an Isaac KNIBBS as the eldest > child, born c1814. One such appears in the 1850 census at > Buffalo, 36 born in England and married to Phoebe. She is Phoebe > AVERY from my Harry Herbert KNIBBS researches. I have a copy of > a letter written by a descendant of Charles to harry in which it > is evidenced that they are cousins. QED? > > Now, there is an Isaac who was baptised at Somerton in 1824 to > 'another' John and Ann. Somerton is close to deddington and the > birthplace of Ana's ancestors. Was this baptism in reality a > late baptism for the unbaptised Isaac bc1814? I would suggest so, > as ther's no further trace of any such Isaac in England. What is > 'troublesome' though, is that John the father is described as a > brickmaker whereas the John we've mentioned earlier was a > labourer/weaver. It's the waever description that doesn't fit. > Don could you please look closely at the references in the > Deddington parish records and consider, taking into account the > 1850 census, whether there were two separate John/Ann families or > just the one. > > You will see that within the database I have Anne the mother as > Ann ALDRIDGE. The marriage date of 1814 sits happily with > everything but we can't be 100% sure we have the right couple or > even the right parents for John. However the indications are > strong in which case we can say that Ann died after 1850 whilst > husband John was probably not then alive. He may well have died > in New York after the crossing (which boat??) which could be > where family lore comes into play. > > We hear nothing more of David in America. Did he perhaps return > to England or should I say Wales? I have an 1856 marriage in > Newport, Monmouthshire which looks suspiciously his. It's at > time like this that I wish I had flush funding to follow up my > whim and order this particular certificate. It would disclose > the identity of his father and whether alive or deceased. There > again, he could be another David (from where?) but it could just > be part of the additional proof that we need. > > Was there another US Census in 1855, can anyone tell me? I've > heard mention of one and would dearly like confirmation as to > which K/NIBB/S were on it. > > What of siblings William, John and Nehemiah (if not Naomi)? > William is seemingly not Karen's (far too young) so more research > needed here. John could well have gone to Canada, satisfying > another family tradition but this would add a sister or two! As > for Nehemiah, if you had been so baptised would you keep the name when > starting a new life in a new country or would you be tempted to > call yourself eg Henry? More in Part Two after some feedback on all this. > > bfn > > Alan > > > EXTRACT FROM K/NIBB/S DATABASE - 15 March 2002 > E&OE > > > John KNIBBS > Born c1785 Deddington, Oxfordshire, England > Baptised 16Feb1786 Deddington > Died bef1850 Not on US Census > Buried > Occupation Labourer/weaver cf Brickmker at Somerton > Father John KNIBBS > Mother Elizabeth HOLLIER > > Married 17Jul1814 Deddington > > Ann ALDRIDGE > Born c1797 Deddington? > Baptised > Died > Buried > Occupation Niagara, Niagara Co 1850 > Father > Mother > > Children > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > Isaac KNIBBS > Born c1814 England > Baptised Somerton 1824? > Died 20Feb1882 Toronto > Buried Niagara Falls > Occupation Cornish tin miner pre emigrating? > Spouse Phoebe AVERY > > John KNIBBS > Born c1816 Deddington > Baptised 24Dec1816 Deddington > Died > Buried > Occupation > Spouse Mary Ann HALL? or emigrated? > > Nehemiah KNIBBS > Born c1819 > Baptised 25Apr1819 Deddington (or Naomi?) > Died > Buried > Occupation > > Charles KNIBBS > Born 15Feb1821 > Baptised 15 Feb 1821? frm IGI? > Died 23Sep1886 Verona IL > Buried Ward Cemetery nr Verona Grundy Illinois > Occupation Engineman Steamill Two Rivers Wisc 1860 > Spouse Jane Ashfield RUMNEY > > William KNIBBS > Born c1823 > Baptised 15Nov1823 Deddington > Died > Buried > Occupation > > David KNIBBS > Born c1826 Deddington > Baptised 31Dec1826 > Died > Buried > Occupation Niagara 1850 - went back to England? > > Ellen KNIBBS > Born c1829 > Baptised 15Nov1829 Deddington, Oxford, England or 5th > Died > Buried > Occupation Niagara 1850 > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

In a message dated 16/03/2002 17:07:35 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > You must be mentally exhausted having worked through, remembered and > presented that lot! I'm unfortunately pushed for time this weekend so have > only had time for a quick read through - as I'm sure you'll agree, it needs > more than a quick look.I will certainly give it my full attention in the > week. > Thanx. It was a marathon not least because I typed it on the Atari but it wouldn't all save on floppy disk because it was full and I couldn't then save to hard disk. I got into a sort of loop and ended up typing most of it 3 times over and didn't have the patience to thoroughly check for typos as we had been out, it was late and I knew I'd be out most of today. Ugh but fun. bfn Alan

........ I think!! Thanx to Marsha having extracted various NIBBS from the 1850 New York census (with names originally supplied to me by Graham), we can begin to make some pretty strong conjectures concerning Charles KNIBBS at the top of Ritchie and Glenn's chart. If I'm right it brings together all Don's family eg Ana, Cathy, Natascha, Dennis, Trevor etc under the same umbrella. And you are all related to Harry Herbert KNIBBS the cowboy poet - not SHAKESPEARE per Ritchie but who knows!! I can't as yet see a connection to William KNIBBS at the head of Karen DWYER's Wisconsin KNIBBS chart (Her Alfred was at Herkinmer Co, NY in 1850) but Charles was in Wisconsin in 1860 and the name William does crop up in his family. There's also the possibility of incorporating a whole host of Canadian KNIBBS, unrelated to Joyce but she is helping me to trace their origins. Part One. Let me explain. In one household at Niagara, we find (via excruciating handwriting) David NIBBS 23 or 73 (I'm going for the former) with Anne 53, Naomi 30, Charles 28, and Ellen 20 all born England. Ellen, bless her, is our linchpin. I firmly believe she is the one baptised at Deddington on 5th or 15th November 1829 to parents John and Ann. Now they had a son David baptised 31 December 1836, also in Deddington. No sign of Isaac, Charles or Naomi but read on. There is a Nehemiah baptised 25th April 1819. Now we need to check as carefully as we can that this is Nehemiah, a male presumably and that Naomi is definitely recorded as such. In some ways I hope so because I have another theory re Nehemiah - see later. There's no baptism for Charles in Deddington but as you will all know from recent correspondence, the one of interest was born on 15th February 1821, perhaps born in Ireland or Devon. If you look at the family grouping below, he would fit very nicely between Nehemiah and William. The fact that a Charles is with the family in 1850 is a clincher for me, everyting else being equal. Perhaps John and Ann did leave Deddington for a while at least. i have a hunch, but it is only a hunch, that John and sons may have gone to the tin mines of Devon/Cornwall seeking work, only to find them exhausted which led to emigration, after a brief further sejour in Oxfordshire. relative KNIBBS were already in New York by this time. You will see that I have listed an Isaac KNIBBS as the eldest child, born c1814. One such appears in the 1850 census at Buffalo, 36 born in England and married to Phoebe. She is Phoebe AVERY from my Harry Herbert KNIBBS researches. I have a copy of a letter written by a descendant of Charles to harry in which it is evidenced that they are cousins. QED? Now, there is an Isaac who was baptised at Somerton in 1824 to 'another' John and Ann. Somerton is close to deddington and the birthplace of Ana's ancestors. Was this baptism in reality a late baptism for the unbaptised Isaac bc1814? I would suggest so, as ther's no further trace of any such Isaac in England. What is 'troublesome' though, is that John the father is described as a brickmaker whereas the John we've mentioned earlier was a labourer/weaver. It's the waever description that doesn't fit. Don could you please look closely at the references in the Deddington parish records and consider, taking into account the 1850 census, whether there were two separate John/Ann families or just the one. You will see that within the database I have Anne the mother as Ann ALDRIDGE. The marriage date of 1814 sits happily with everything but we can't be 100% sure we have the right couple or even the right parents for John. However the indications are strong in which case we can say that Ann died after 1850 whilst husband John was probably not then alive. He may well have died in New York after the crossing (which boat??) which could be where family lore comes into play. We hear nothing more of David in America. Did he perhaps return to England or should I say Wales? I have an 1856 marriage in Newport, Monmouthshire which looks suspiciously his. It's at time like this that I wish I had flush funding to follow up my whim and order this particular certificate. It would disclose the identity of his father and whether alive or deceased. There again, he could be another David (from where?) but it could just be part of the additional proof that we need. Was there another US Census in 1855, can anyone tell me? I've heard mention of one and would dearly like confirmation as to which K/NIBB/S were on it. What of siblings William, John and Nehemiah (if not Naomi)? William is seemingly not Karen's (far too young) so more research needed here. John could well have gone to Canada, satisfying another family tradition but this would add a sister or two! As for Nehemiah, if you had been so baptised would you keep the name when starting a new life in a new country or would you be tempted to call yourself eg Henry? More in Part Two after some feedback on all this. bfn Alan EXTRACT FROM K/NIBB/S DATABASE - 15 March 2002 E&OE John KNIBBS Born c1785 Deddington, Oxfordshire, England Baptised 16Feb1786 Deddington Died bef1850 Not on US Census Buried Occupation Labourer/weaver cf Brickmker at Somerton Father John KNIBBS Mother Elizabeth HOLLIER Married 17Jul1814 Deddington Ann ALDRIDGE Born c1797 Deddington? Baptised Died Buried Occupation Niagara, Niagara Co 1850 Father Mother Children ----------------------------------------------------------------- Isaac KNIBBS Born c1814 England Baptised Somerton 1824? Died 20Feb1882 Toronto Buried Niagara Falls Occupation Cornish tin miner pre emigrating? Spouse Phoebe AVERY John KNIBBS Born c1816 Deddington Baptised 24Dec1816 Deddington Died Buried Occupation Spouse Mary Ann HALL? or emigrated? Nehemiah KNIBBS Born c1819 Baptised 25Apr1819 Deddington (or Naomi?) Died Buried Occupation Charles KNIBBS Born 15Feb1821 Baptised 15 Feb 1821? frm IGI? Died 23Sep1886 Verona IL Buried Ward Cemetery nr Verona Grundy Illinois Occupation Engineman Steamill Two Rivers Wisc 1860 Spouse Jane Ashfield RUMNEY William KNIBBS Born c1823 Baptised 15Nov1823 Deddington Died Buried Occupation David KNIBBS Born c1826 Deddington Baptised 31Dec1826 Died Buried Occupation Niagara 1850 - went back to England? Ellen KNIBBS Born c1829 Baptised 15Nov1829 Deddington, Oxford, England or 5th Died Buried Occupation Niagara 1850

Alan/Ritchie, I haven't heard back from Glenn so have messaged him again. I've explained briefly the dilemma we have with Charles and that we are desperately seeking any information that may help us to identify just where he came from. I suspect that Glenn won't know much but who knows - the breakthrough will come one day I'm sure. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 3:56 PM Subject: [K/NIBB/S] The Elusive Charles Knibbs > Alan. While Tressa Kirk's Knibbs family bible says Charles was born in > Devon, I'll bet tuppence that it will eventually be revealed that it was > Oxfordshire. If the birthplace of his two or three brothers was ever > determined, this, of course, would solve the problem. Carolyn is no longer > interested in researching Knibbs and her brother, Lloyd Mitchell Knibbs, > never was interested, so can't get any help here. Ritchie > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Try msn.com maybe he forgot the n. Ana

Alan. While Tressa Kirk's Knibbs family bible says Charles was born in Devon, I'll bet tuppence that it will eventually be revealed that it was Oxfordshire. If the birthplace of his two or three brothers was ever determined, this, of course, would solve the problem. Carolyn is no longer interested in researching Knibbs and her brother, Lloyd Mitchell Knibbs, never was interested, so can't get any help here. Ritchie

Alan, From what I understand, there is no connection at all between this and the Gurney/Knibbs marriage of 1932. I've asked Mary Crandall (researching Gurney) if she knows of the Francis Tom Gurney who married Mildred Knibbs in 1932. She ignored the question and sent me the info on the Abbott/Nibbs marriage - so I take that as a "no". The Abbott/Nibbs marriage isn't connected to the Gurneys - it just caught Mary's eye when she was doing some research. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] Joseph ABBOTT/Jane NIBBS > Don > > Thanx for passing this on to which I reply below but can you tell me of any > tie in please re the 1932 GURNEY/KNIBBS marriage. By the way, would you > believe there were 3 Edith M KNIBBS who married in that year! > > > > Just wondering if this means anything to anyone on the list? > > > > ""Registration # 001628-1907, Thomas John ABBOTT, 26, brass finisher, born > > in > > England, resident of Toronto, s/o Joseph J. ABBOTT & Jane NIBBS, married > > Mabel Asplin COOPER, 21, born in England, resident of Toronto, d/o George > > Luther COOPER & Rosina STANTON, witn: G.H. YONACE & Joseph J. ABBOTT, bv > > > > The most likely marriage is one 04qtr 1875 Wandsworth District. A check for > a Joseph J ABBOTT in the GRO indices would confirm. The most likely birth is > one for Jane NIBBS at Send [01 qtr 1850 Guildford District] in a family that > can be traced back to Little Marlow from where William NIBBS the swing rioter > hailed. > > Armed with that, I've just looked at the 1881 census and look what I found > which looks pretty conclusive. > > Dwelling: 5 Station Lane > Census Place: Isleworth, Middlesex, England > Source: FHL Film 1341325 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1338 Folio 86 > Page 9 > Marr Age Sex Birthplace > Joseph J. ABBOTT M 30 M Yeovil, Somerset, England > Rel: Head > Occ: Railway Guard > Jane ABBOTT M 30 F Woking, Surrey, England > Rel: Wife > Ella J. ABBOTT 4 F Battersea, Surrey, England > Rel: Daur > Annie ABBOTT 2 F Hounslow, Middlesex, England > Rel: Daur > Thomas J. ABBOTT 9 m M Hounslow, Middlesex, England > Rel: Son > > bfn > > Alan > > > > > > It's been passed to me by Mary Crandall who is researching the GURNEY > > family. Two GURNEY brothers(?) married to two of my KNIBBS sisters Jane and > > Elizabeth in the late 1700's, hence the connection. I wrote to Mary recently > > to say that I've learned from Trevor KNIBBS of another GURNEY/KNIBBS > > marriage and wondered if she knew of it. Francis Tom GURNEY married Edith > > Mildred KNIBBS at Combe, Oxfordshire in 1932. > > > > She's not aware of Francis Tom, but passed on the above snippet in case it's > > of interest. > > > > Don > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Ritchie Point taken re Ellis Island! Thanx also for reminding me re the Bible source of the Devon birth. Perhaps a gravestone verifies the date. Doubtless there is a West Country connection as Isaac was referred to as a Cornish tin miner but I still suspect the family only passed through there (and perhaps through Ireland). My money is still on an Oxfordshire connection which will keep Don interested! As Marsha says, maybe the parents died in New York and the brothers split up from there. I will be keen to hear of anything else Glenn can impart eg any sisters? bfn Alan > . There is no Charles Knibbs among the Matching Passenger Records on the > Ellis Island website. There are 59 other Knibbs, but no Charles. If John > D. > thought his father, Charles, was born in Ireland, he could well have > thought > Charles' parents died on Ellis Island. Remember, John D. was born in 1867. > > Ellis Island was established late in the 19th century, 1892, I think. > Ritchie > > >

What may be confusing the issue here is that it apears Ellis Island wasn't _just_ for immigrants. Even US citizens coming from the "old world" into New York went through. (Rather like going through customs at the airport now, I suspect.) I have a couple of examples of this among my Westerholds. Or perhaps someone has confused "Ellis Island" and the Port of New York. [email protected] wrote: >Alan. There is no Charles Knibbs among the Matching Passenger Records on the >Ellis Island website. There are 59 other Knibbs, but no Charles. If John D. >thought his father, Charles, was born in Ireland, he could well have thought >Charles' parents died on Ellis Island. Remember, John D. was born in 1867. >Ellis Island was established late in the 19th century, 1892, I think. Ritchie > > > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > -- *Marsha L. Ensminger __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with [email protected]! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

Alan. There is no Charles Knibbs among the Matching Passenger Records on the Ellis Island website. There are 59 other Knibbs, but no Charles. If John D. thought his father, Charles, was born in Ireland, he could well have thought Charles' parents died on Ellis Island. Remember, John D. was born in 1867. Ellis Island was established late in the 19th century, 1892, I think. Ritchie

Don. I suspect that the Rumney family history determined that Charles Knibbs was born in Devon Feb. 1819 from the IGI. This information was input to the IGI by Carolyn Knibbs Myrick. She got the information from a Knibbs family bible in the possession of a Tressa Kirk, who has since "shuffled off this mortal coil." I guess that if Carolyn got it from a Knibbs family bible, we have to accept it's accuracy. I wish I knew who had this bible now. Glenn Ellsworth Knibbs is only 10 years older than me, so I am not terribly sympathetic with the infirmities of the "golden years." I have a few myself. Ritchie

Don Re my earlier response, I've located the couple. I had her as Mildred 'Edith'. bfn Alan > It's been passed to me by Mary Crandall who is researching the GURNEY > family. Two GURNEY brothers(?) married to two of my KNIBBS sisters Jane and > Elizabeth in the late 1700's, hence the connection. I wrote to Mary recently > to say that I've learned from Trevor KNIBBS of another GURNEY/KNIBBS > marriage and wondered if she knew of it. Francis Tom GURNEY married Edith > Mildred KNIBBS at Combe, Oxfordshire in 1932. > >

Ritchie, I think we must bear in mind that Glenn is 81 years old and in his own words "has just started to do some work on the Knibbs family history". His original message on my Guestbook was that he found me whilst "surfing the net". I find that in itself amazing. Glenn clearly knows of Charles Knibbs of Devonshire so I guess it would be interesting to know how he came buy that information. A birth certificate would be an amazing find - I doubt he has that but nevertheless, it's fresh, virgin, unspoilt input from him which could well prove fruitful. He says his father told him that Charles' parents died on Ellis Island and friends split up the four boys. What you wrote in your original message on this topic that "this may well be family lore" could well be right. I remember when I first started, I had loads of family information I'd learned from my father. I had no reason to doubt any of it but pretty soon realised that lots of it was inaccurate. I suspect that Glenn will have little to offer to solve the mystery of Charles, but nevertheless, he will undoubtedly have lots of family information he can share. As soon as he agrees for me to pass his details on, I will do so. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [K/NIBB/S] Glenn Ellsworth KNIBBS > Glenn Ellsworth Knibbs writes that his father told him Charles Knibbs' > parents died on Ellis Island. How could this be if Charles Knibbs, > 1819-1886, married in New York in 1852? Ritchie > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

Don Thanx for passing this on to which I reply below but can you tell me of any tie in please re the 1932 GURNEY/KNIBBS marriage. By the way, would you believe there were 3 Edith M KNIBBS who married in that year! > Just wondering if this means anything to anyone on the list? > > ""Registration # 001628-1907, Thomas John ABBOTT, 26, brass finisher, born > in > England, resident of Toronto, s/o Joseph J. ABBOTT & Jane NIBBS, married > Mabel Asplin COOPER, 21, born in England, resident of Toronto, d/o George > Luther COOPER & Rosina STANTON, witn: G.H. YONACE & Joseph J. ABBOTT, bv > The most likely marriage is one 04qtr 1875 Wandsworth District. A check for a Joseph J ABBOTT in the GRO indices would confirm. The most likely birth is one for Jane NIBBS at Send [01 qtr 1850 Guildford District] in a family that can be traced back to Little Marlow from where William NIBBS the swing rioter hailed. Armed with that, I've just looked at the 1881 census and look what I found which looks pretty conclusive. Dwelling: 5 Station Lane Census Place: Isleworth, Middlesex, England Source: FHL Film 1341325 PRO Ref RG11 Piece 1338 Folio 86 Page 9 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Joseph J. ABBOTT M 30 M Yeovil, Somerset, England Rel: Head Occ: Railway Guard Jane ABBOTT M 30 F Woking, Surrey, England Rel: Wife Ella J. ABBOTT 4 F Battersea, Surrey, England Rel: Daur Annie ABBOTT 2 F Hounslow, Middlesex, England Rel: Daur Thomas J. ABBOTT 9 m M Hounslow, Middlesex, England Rel: Son bfn Alan > > It's been passed to me by Mary Crandall who is researching the GURNEY > family. Two GURNEY brothers(?) married to two of my KNIBBS sisters Jane and > Elizabeth in the late 1700's, hence the connection. I wrote to Mary recently > to say that I've learned from Trevor KNIBBS of another GURNEY/KNIBBS > marriage and wondered if she knew of it. Francis Tom GURNEY married Edith > Mildred KNIBBS at Combe, Oxfordshire in 1932. > > She's not aware of Francis Tom, but passed on the above snippet in case it's > of interest. > > Don > > > > > >

Don/Marsha/Ritchie I've only just picked up on all your correspondence as I've been busy with other matters over the weekend and today. The family is well known to me and indeed we've referred to them often on list. Their tree appears on the RUMNEY website and I have been able to add to it and inform correspondents accordingly eg the fact that Isaac grandfather of the writer Harry Herbert KNIBBS was one of the brothers of Charles. I'm glad that Glenn has made contact and yes it would be great if he had some additional information as there have been conflicting stories. I already have pretty full details about him and his immediate family. Much of my information has come from Ritchie and I was able to correspond for a while with Gordon Charles KNIBBS before he 'lost' his email connection. (GC is in fact the son of George L whom Marsha located on the 1920 census and grandson of Charles supposedly born in Devon or is it Ireland?!) Both GC and son David had visited Don's website. You'll remember the tale about the three brothers in New York who went their separate ways. Other relations have also added bits and pieces of information but more family 'lore' than proven research. This is the first time anyone has mentioned 4 brothers which is an intriguing prospect. Perhaps it was indeed their parents who died at Ellis Island if we go on the basis of 'no smoke without fire'. I can also reveal that I had earmarked two 'contenders' for the third brother, so if indeed there were four then perhaps we may well have them all. Unfortunately, all my efforts to glean further information have met with a rather stony silence in some quarters but we may now be able to progress matters. bfn Alan