Hi folks. As a Kincaid/Kinkead/Kinkaid (yes it's been spelt everyway in my family) from a branch living in Northern Ireland but originally from Scotland I've been reading with interest the various posts re Irish Slaves. As I'm sure you know you need to be very careful with any histories on Ireland or Scotland around these times as they tend to be written both emotively and from one sides view or another. The local historical societies here take great pride in the contribution Ulster Scot immigrants made towards the development of the USA and CA and I live about 1 mile from a house signposted as the family home of Andrew Jackson. I've never read anything though about how many of these Ulster Scots enlisted and took part in the various campaigns against the Native tribes in the USA some 200 yrs after John Kincaids alleged enslavement which is probably an example of how you need to be careful. The use of the word Slave for example is very dangerous. The literature of the day details John Kincaid as listed as being disorderly along his wife, Janet Dun, and her mother Jean Hannay. The lists were created by the local ministers and led to land confiscations or worse following the failed Presbyterian rebellion of 1679. Such was the turmoil around this time that only a few yrs later in 1690 many of the original sentences were repealed on the accession of William of Orange to the throne. I did find one interesting thing this morning namely one of the the defence lawyers acting for those accused of rebellion was also named John Kincaid. I will end by saying keep up the research folks as you probably don't know how helpful and insightful we find it this side of the Atlantic ! > On 21 Mar 2014, at 03:04, "Don W Kincaid" <donwkincaid@cox.net> wrote: > > In 1685 John Kincaid of Chalcarroch, Scotland was imprisoned for several > months and then shipped to the New World in late 1685 but the ship Francis > went to Perth-Amboy, NJ instead of Barbados. John and most of the others on > board had signed a document proclaiming their imprisonment and shipment was > illegal. After arriving in NJ, many signed a similar document. In my > research I found a NJ town a few miles North of Perth-Amboy took many of > them in and the book I found this in said some went to New England colonies > and some to Carolinas colonies. Hopefully someone will discover a descendant > of John some day! > > Don > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Kincaid > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 7:55 PM > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Irish Slaves > > And . . . whatever happened to John Kincaid, minister, who was rounded up > in Scotland in 1685 or so and put on a slave ship to Barbados that got > shoved into Pennsylvania by a storm on the way? Well, I suppose we know. > The Quakers would not let them be rebounded onto the ship. But what > happened to the the other "slaves" exiled from Scotland and Ireland to the > Caribbean plantains? Remember, the conditions on board the Francis (ship) > that transported the slaves were horrible and many died of disease. Hardly > a nice ride on an Airbus. It would be nice to get a balanced description > of what happened to these slaves and how long they were kept and treated. > The record we have just says, taken to Barbados on ship to become slaves. > > > On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Judy Palmquist <bunclejudy@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Check out the book "White Cargo" by Don Jordan and Michael Walsh >> >> >>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Kincaid <7kincaid@nb.sympatico.ca> wrote: >>> >>> I'm sorry but I have to say that this is more propaganda value than >>> anything. As if the Irish Catholics were any more slighted or >>> better than others. The Irish were pretty good slave traders post >>> Roman era. They loved to raid our Strathclyde British ancestors >>> of their loved ones and enslave them on their lands or sell them to >>> the highest bidders overseas. The Irish Catholics Lords were just as >> quick >>> to sell their poor as the English Protestant Lords. From the Vikings >>> to the Normans to the French and just about every other European >>> kingdom did the same. It was a time of uncontrolled elites running >>> anywhere and grabbing anyone their could overpower to make them >>> do their will or make a profit from them - including those on their >>> own estates. Not all were the same, but the Africans and the Irish >>> did not have a monopoly on this. Talk to a lot of other indigenous >>> populations around the world. >>> >>> I think it better to ignore those who try to exploit our dark times >>> for political purposes. I have many Irish Catholic ancestors >>> and I think I honour them better by working to ensure that this >>> is ended and does not happen again to all of God's children - whether >>> they are Saqaliba, Dalits, Irish, African, or whoever. Stirring up >> ethnic >>> populations with a surgical and biased view of ones own history >>> does not help anything! This is an easy thing to get caught up in. >>> Let's not. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Don W Kincaid >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:50 PM >>> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [KINCAID] Irish Slaves >>> >>> I just finished reading about a sad bad time in history. A surname >>> newsletter mentioned it and provided a link to it. The rounding up and >>> selling of Irish citizens reduced the population of Ireland >>> dramatically. >>> For those whose lineage comes through Ireland, slavery could be a big >>> detriment to finding records of ancestors. None of the history courses >>> I >>> had in school or university ever mentioned the Irish Slave Trade so it >> may >>> be news to some of you as well. Don >>> >>> The Irish Slave Trade - The Forgotten "White" Slaves >>> They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships >>> bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands >> and >>> included men, women, and even the youngest of children. >>> >>> Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in >>> the >>> harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their >> hands >>> and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were >>> burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a >>> warning to other captives. >>> >>> We don't really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? We >> know >>> all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade. >>> >>> But, are we talking about African slavery? King James II and Charles I >> also >>> led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain's famed Oliver >>> Cromwell >>> furthered this practice of dehumanizing one's next door neighbor. >>> >>> The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as >>> slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish >> political >>> prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West >> Indies. >>> By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and >>> Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were >>> Irish slaves. >>> >>> Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English >>> merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were >> actually >>> white. >>> >>> From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and >>> another >>> 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland's population fell from about >> 1,500,000 >>> to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the >> British >>> did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them >> across >>> the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and >>> children. Britain's solution was to auction them off as well. >>> >>> During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and >> 14 >>> were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, >>> Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and >>> children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men >> and >>> women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, >>> Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold >>> as >>> slaves to English settlers. >>> >>> Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly >> were: >>> Slaves. They'll come up with terms like "Indentured Servants" to >>> describe >>> what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and >>> 18th >>> centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle. >>> >>> As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this >> same >>> period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the >> stain >>> of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were >>> often >>> treated far better than their Irish counterparts. >>> >>> African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). >>> Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped >> or >>> branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death >> was >>> a >>> monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African. >>> The >>> English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their >>> own >>> personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were >>> themselves >>> slaves, which increased the size of the master's free workforce. Even if >> an >>> Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves >>> of >>> her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, >> would >>> seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude. >>> >>> In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many >>> cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The >>> settlers >>> began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves >>> with >>> a distinct complexion. These new "mulatto" slaves brought a higher price >>> than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money >>> rather than purchase new African slaves. This practice of interbreeding >>> Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so >>> widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed "forbidding the >>> practice >>> of >>> mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of >> producing >>> slaves for sale." In short, it was stopped only because it interfered >> with >>> the profits of a large slave transport company. >>> >>> England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more >> than a >>> century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands >>> of >>> Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were >>> horrible >>> abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped >>> 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty >> of >>> food to eat. >>> >>> There is little question that the Irish experienced the horrors of >> slavery >>> as much (if not more in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is, >>> also, very little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in >>> your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African >>> and >>> Irish ancestry. In 1839, Britain finally decided on it's own to end it's >>> participation in Satan's highway to hell and stopped transporting >>> slaves. >>> While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, >> the >>> new law slowly concluded THIS chapter of nightmarish Irish misery. >>> >>> But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an >>> African >>> experience, then they've got it completely wrong. >>> >>> Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our >>> memories. >>> >>> But, where are our public (and PRIVATE) schools???? Where are the >>> history >>> books? Why is it so seldom discussed? >>> >>> Do the memories of hundreds of thousands of Irish victims merit more >> than a >>> mention from an unknown writer? >>> >>> Or is their story to be one that their English pirates intended: To >> (unlike >>> the African book) have the Irish story utterly and completely disappear >> as >>> if it never happened. >>> >>> None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to >>> describe >>> their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased >>> history books conveniently forgot. >>> >>> For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, >>> including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: >>> >>> www.kincaiddna.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >>> For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, >>> including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: >>> >>> www.kincaiddna.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, >> including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: >> >> www.kincaiddna.org >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > dddddddd > > For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, > including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: > > www.kincaiddna.org > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: > > www.kincaiddna.org > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message