Thank you for the correction. I was pulling most of this from memory which was a bit faulty. Obtaining a DNA test from Thomas of Lewis Co. and Thomas/Sarah of Raleigh Co. would help to unravel the Mt. Tom aspect. Given the available data all we know about Thomas of Lewis Co. is that Lucinda Claypool, claiming to be his daughter, says his father was an S. Kincaid and he was born in Greenbrier Co. Her children carry the Claypool name until after Thomas's death. We also know that in 1850 he had a Mary Kincaid who was of age to be his wife in his Lewis Co. household. His age (which varies) in this and subsequent census indicates a birth between 1800-1805. Lewis Co. Thomas is not Thomas/Polly Davis whose 1815 marriage with permission from father Samuel is consistent with Mt Tom whose censuses indicate a birth circa 1790-1795. The appearance of a Mary Kincaid (widow) in the 1850 household of Thomas/Isabella suggests that Lewis Co. Thomas is not his father as mother Mary would not be in 2 households in 2 widely separated counties at the same time. Early researchers efforts to construct a fit with an elaborate story that Mt. Tom ran off with Lucinda Claypool, told the census taker that his wife Mary was living with them while the jilted Mary (mother of Thomas/Isabella) was listed as a widow to save face does not appear to jibe with known data. Likewise the construct that Samuel of the 3 wives had 2 sons named Thomas (Mt. Tom and King Tom). King Tom's wife Sarah is listed as the daughter of Samuel/Huldah in her death records. This Thomas is too young per census records (1850 says b c1810, 1860 says b c1800) to be the Thomas, son of Samuel of the 3 wives, named in court records. The 1810 birth date is most reasonable as Sarah also shows the same aage desparity. Samuel m Huldah in 1802 so neither would be the child of this union if born in 1800. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Arnott" <kincaidfamily@qwest.net> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > Sue, Mary Catherine and George Washington Kincaid are Fayette County and > later ROANE County, WV not Raleigh. Just so someone doesn't do fishing in > the wrong direction. And there is still the entire Mt. Tom aspects... > > -----Original Message----- > From: kincaid-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kincaid-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On > Behalf Of Sue Liedtke > Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 9:15 AM > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > > #49289 is vetted to George Kincaid and Mary Catherine Campbell of Fayette > Co. VA(WVA) and later Raleigh Co. VA(WVA). He was b 1818 d 1898 and m > 1841. > George (age 33 no birth state listed which generally means VA on this > census) and Mary (age 24) appear in the 1850 Fayette Co. census next to > Mary's father Danial Campbell and 13 households away from William/Jane > Kincaid. William is son of Samuel/Mary Tincher and Jane is daughter of > John/Elizabeth Gillespie per marriage, tax, census and court records. > John/Elizabeth is represented by several A-1a lines and is the only John > in > the area who fits as son of Thomas/Hannah Tincher per tax, census, land > and > court records. > > Mary Catherine's sister Isabella m Thomas Kincaid. They appear in the > Fayette 1850 census: Thomas (age 21), Isabella (age 17) married within the > year. Widow Mary Kincaid (age 53) and Mary C. Kincaid (age 17) are also in > the household. This Thomas states at his second marriage that his parents > were Thomas and Mary Kincaid. Thomas and Isabella bought and sold land > that > was forfeited by Thomas Kincaid, son of Samuel/Mary Tincher/Huldah > Osbourn/Diana Ewing. We do not have a DNA sample from Thomas/Isabella's > line, however, paperwork seems to indicate that #33001 (vetted to > Thomas/Polly Davis) in A-1c and #101753 (claims to Thomas/Polly Davis and > has a "lady" Polly Kincaid in his 1860 household) in A-1a. Thomas/Polly > Davis listed on his marriage record as son of a Samuel is the only Thomas > in > the area who would fit as son of Samuel of the 3 wives per tax, census, > land > and court records. Samuel of the 3 wives is the only Samuel in the area > who > would fit as son of Thomas/Hannah Tincher per tax, census, land and court > records. There is some indication (unsubstantiated) that Thomas/Isabella > died in the State Sanitarium in Raleigh Co. and is buried in the same > graveyard as George/Mary Campbell. It is possible that Thomas/Mary parents > of Thomas/Isabella is not Thomas/Polly Davis as in every other incidence > she > is referred to as Polly rather than Mary. > > There are very few Kincaids who appear on the Fayette censuses that cannot > be linked in some way to the above families, the family of Thomas/Hannah > Tincher or the family of John/Ann Graham (represented by #60141 A-1a). > There > are a few that we are uncertain of who could possibly provide a family > connection for George/Mary Campbell if we could trace down a descendent > for > testing. Then there is the remote possibility that the 9 at marker 15 is > (shudder) parallel. > > Sue Liedtke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 8:32 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > > > Then there is sample 122441 who is descended from Martin Kincaid, son of > Andrew Kinkead, brother to my John Kincaid & Elizabeth Smith. I have clear > proof that Martin is descended from John Kinkead who died in Union > township, > > Erie County, PA in 1822. Who is sample 49289 vetted to? > > Sincerely > Norman Kincaide > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, September 6, 2008 9:11:25 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > > Your mutation to 11 at marker 4 (DYS 391) appears to be a parallel so you > can discount it. This puts you at straight AAV for A-2. Within our project > it appears your most likely closest match is #49289, however, it is also > possible that you would connect to the common ancestor for 2b before you > connect to him or any other 2a participant. This connection would be long > before any removal to the colonies and several generations back. > > 2519 and 15550 appear closer to each other than to you because they share > 2 > mutations from A-2 AAV (CDYb and 413b), however, both of these mutations > show up in other sets within Group A in a pattern that suggests there were > multiple parallel mutations at these markers. We really do not have enough > results in A-2a to determine which of the mutations is significant and > which > is not. So yes, your best bet is to look to a possible relationship with > 15550 given the locations of your ancestors and seek a connection to set > 2b > in Ireland or Scotland. The more set 2b participants connecting to each > other, the better the possibility of finding a historic ancestor with the > initial mutation to 18 at marker 30 which is the defining mutation for > this > group and the better the odds that you connect within an historic time > frame > to this set. > > #49289 has me a bit stumped because he shares a mutation with 2519 but > does > not share the mutations that 2519 and 15550 share. So far he is the lone > representative of A-2 among a sea of A-1 Kincaids whom he interacts with > in > the same WVA location. He could represent a 1800 immigration from Ireland. > 2519's ancestor (born 7 years earlier than #49289's vetted ancestor) lived > and died in Limerick. He could also represent an 1800's immigrant from PA > into WVA or the 9 at marker 15 (459b) could be (shudder) parallel. And > yes, > Peter, there is the possibility that the 9 was the original and A-1's 10 > is > the mutation in which case every individual in 2a and each of the subsets > common ancestors could derive from an ancient branch without a > relationship > to any of the others within historic times. > > Sue Liedtke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:19 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > > > Thank you, Sue. So my sample 4164 is closer to 15550 than 5803 and 93625.. > So in a hypthetical my George Kinkead could not be the brother of John > Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle represented by 93625. James Kinkead of Rowan > Co. NC I believe to be the James Kinkead that is in Lancaster County and > Cumberland County, PA from 1759-1767. > > Sincerely > Norman Kincaide > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 5, 2008 9:55:50 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > > Norman, 5803 is genetically closest to 93625. On 37 markers they differ > only > at marker 35 where 5803 has a 40 instead of the AAV 39. They both have a > 38 > at marker 34 where the AAV is 37. 15550 has the AAV of 17 at marker 30 > while > 5803 and 93625 have the 18 indicative of the A-2b subset. I consider this > last mutation to be significant and to have occured at least one > generation > prior to 1739 when James/Hannah of Rowan Co. NC was born (this line is > unvetted). 15550 also has a 38 at marker 35 meaning his line dropped a > repetition at this marker while 5803's line gained one. I can pretty much > guarantee that 5803 and 93625 are related more closely to each other than > to > any other participant in the project. > > Sue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > > > Dear Brian, thanks for posting the information about your William Kinkead > being a weaver.. This is significant because James Kinkead of West > Pennsborough Township, later became Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, > PA, was a weaver. Your William could have apprenticed with James Kinkead > of > West Pennsborough. > For me, I accept John Kincaid's Revolutionary War pension application as > conclusive that he is the son of John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle and > that > sample 93625 is representative of John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle's > line > along with his ownership of the land bequeathed to him by his father. I > believe your William is from one of these two families: James Kinkead of > West Pennsborough/ Dickinson Township or John Kinkead, Merchant of > Carlisle. > I would need clarification of which line he is closer to genetically: > sample > 15550 or 93625. > > Sincerely > Norman Kincaide > > Cumberland County, PA > > 1800 James Kinkead, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 > male over 45, 1 male 26-45, 2 males 10-16, 1 female over 45, 1 female > 16-25. > USFC, 108:04. > 1800 John Kincade, [4164] Toboyne Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male > over 45, 1 male 16-26, 1 male 10-16, 1 female over 45, 3 females 10-16, 2 > females to 10. > 1800 John Kinkead, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male 26-45, > 1 > male 16-26, 1 female 26-45, 1 female 10-16, 3 females to 10. USFC, 95:04. > > 1807 John Kincaid, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, listed in 1807 > Septennial Census as a tavernkeeper. Cumberland County Historical Society, > Carlisle, PA > 1807 John Kinkead, [15550] farmer, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, > PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical > Society, > Carlisle, PA > 1807 James Kinkead, [15550] weaver, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, > PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical > Society, > Carlisle, PA > 1807 James Kinkead, Jr., [15550] laborer, Dickinson Township, Cumberland > County, PA listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical > Society, Carlisle, PA > > Cumberland County, PA > 1810 James Kinkede, Sr., [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, > PA, > 1 male over 45, > 1 male under 10, 2 males 16-26, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-26. USFC, p. > 024. > 1810 James Kinkede, Jr., [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, > PA, > 1 male 16-26, 1 female over 45. USFC, p. 024. > 1810 John Kenkede, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 > male > 16-26, 1 male 10-16, 2 males under 10, 1 female 16-26, 1 female 10-16, 1 > female under 10. USFC, p. 024. > 1810 John Kinkede, [93625] Middleton Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 > male > over 45, 1 male 26-45, 1 female 26-45, 1 female 16-25, 2 females 10-16. > USFC, p. 065. > > Cumberland County, PA > 1820 John Kincade, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 > male > over 45, 1 male 16-25, 2 males 10-15, 1 female 26-44, 1 female 10-15. > USFC. > 1820 John Kinkead, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, 2 males over > 45, > 1 male 10-15, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-25. USFC. > 1820 William Kinked, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 2 > males 16-25, 2 males 10-15, 1 female 16-25. USFC. > > Perry County, PA > 1820 William Kinkead, [5803] Rye Township, Perry County, PA, 1 male 26-45, > 1 > male 16-25, 1 male 10-16, 2 males to 10, 1 female 26-45, 1 female to 10. > USFC, p. 337. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Brian Kincade <briank@sti.net> > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2008 6:01:07 PM > Subject: [KINCAID] Fishing > > Norman/Sue/Don: > Still exploring for 5803 William Kinkead parents. In comparing DNA 93625 > to > 5803 in group A set 2b; it shows they match except for marker 34. It would > be nice to see how they would match at marker 67. How certain is 93625 to > be > the s/o John of Carlisle? > As Norman has indicated he has suspicions that William Kinkead 1785 > possibilty could be a unknown son of Andrew Kinkead 1746, thus a grandson > of > the merchant of Carlisle. > > William Kinkead's tax records indicate he was a weaver in Rye Twp, > Cumberland Co. and Perry Co. from 1820 to his death in 1849. Records also > show that Williams family lived in Rye Twp from 1820 thru 1857 near > Sherman > Creek along which John Kinkead the merchant retaind property. > > I am also searching all the census records for various Kinkead spellings > for > possable birth dates that match Williams 1785; to date no luck in finding > that Andrew 1746 is a match. > Just Fishing??? > 5803 Brian > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca > id%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca > id%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotesin the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca > id%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb..com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca > id%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotesin the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca > id%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca > id%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To unsubscribe from the > list, > please send an email toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotesin the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca > id%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message