Norman, 5803 is genetically closest to 93625. On 37 markers they differ only at marker 35 where 5803 has a 40 instead of the AAV 39. They both have a 38 at marker 34 where the AAV is 37. 15550 has the AAV of 17 at marker 30 while 5803 and 93625 have the 18 indicative of the A-2b subset. I consider this last mutation to be significant and to have occured at least one generation prior to 1739 when James/Hannah of Rowan Co. NC was born (this line is unvetted). 15550 also has a 38 at marker 35 meaning his line dropped a repetition at this marker while 5803's line gained one. I can pretty much guarantee that 5803 and 93625 are related more closely to each other than to any other participant in the project. Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing Dear Brian, thanks for posting the information about your William Kinkead being a weaver. This is significant because James Kinkead of West Pennsborough Township, later became Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, was a weaver. Your William could have apprenticed with James Kinkead of West Pennsborough. For me, I accept John Kincaid's Revolutionary War pension application as conclusive that he is the son of John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle and that sample 93625 is representative of John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle's line along with his ownership of the land bequeathed to him by his father. I believe your William is from one of these two families: James Kinkead of West Pennsborough/ Dickinson Township or John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle. I would need clarification of which line he is closer to genetically: sample 15550 or 93625. Sincerely Norman Kincaide Cumberland County, PA 1800 James Kinkead, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male 26-45, 2 males 10-16, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-25. USFC, 108:04. 1800 John Kincade, [4164] Toboyne Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male 16-26, 1 male 10-16, 1 female over 45, 3 females 10-16, 2 females to 10. 1800 John Kinkead, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male 26-45, 1 male 16-26, 1 female 26-45, 1 female 10-16, 3 females to 10. USFC, 95:04. 1807 John Kincaid, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census as a tavernkeeper. Cumberland County Historical Society, Carlisle, PA 1807 John Kinkead, [15550] farmer, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical Society, Carlisle, PA 1807 James Kinkead, [15550] weaver, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical Society, Carlisle, PA 1807 James Kinkead, Jr., [15550] laborer, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical Society, Carlisle, PA Cumberland County, PA 1810 James Kinkede, Sr., [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male under 10, 2 males 16-26, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-26. USFC, p. 024. 1810 James Kinkede, Jr., [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male 16-26, 1 female over 45. USFC, p. 024. 1810 John Kenkede, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male 16-26, 1 male 10-16, 2 males under 10, 1 female 16-26, 1 female 10-16, 1 female under 10. USFC, p. 024. 1810 John Kinkede, [93625] Middleton Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male 26-45, 1 female 26-45, 1 female 16-25, 2 females 10-16. USFC, p. 065. Cumberland County, PA 1820 John Kincade, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male 16-25, 2 males 10-15, 1 female 26-44, 1 female 10-15. USFC. 1820 John Kinkead, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, 2 males over 45, 1 male 10-15, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-25. USFC. 1820 William Kinked, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 2 males 16-25, 2 males 10-15, 1 female 16-25. USFC. Perry County, PA 1820 William Kinkead, [5803] Rye Township, Perry County, PA, 1 male 26-45, 1 male 16-25, 1 male 10-16, 2 males to 10, 1 female 26-45, 1 female to 10. USFC, p. 337. ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Kincade <briank@sti.net> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2008 6:01:07 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Fishing Norman/Sue/Don: Still exploring for 5803 William Kinkead parents. In comparing DNA 93625 to 5803 in group A set 2b; it shows they match except for marker 34. It would be nice to see how they would match at marker 67. How certain is 93625 to be the s/o John of Carlisle? As Norman has indicated he has suspicions that William Kinkead 1785 possibilty could be a unknown son of Andrew Kinkead 1746, thus a grandson of the merchant of Carlisle. William Kinkead's tax records indicate he was a weaver in Rye Twp, Cumberland Co. and Perry Co. from 1820 to his death in 1849. Records also show that Williams family lived in Rye Twp from 1820 thru 1857 near Sherman Creek along which John Kinkead the merchant retaind property. I am also searching all the census records for various Kinkead spellings for possable birth dates that match Williams 1785; to date no luck in finding that Andrew 1746 is a match. Just Fishing??? 5803 Brian To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotesin the subject and the body of the message

Confirming Sue's message, FTDNA shows Brian # 5803 has an 87.4% probability of a common ancestor with Bill, #93625, a 72.29% with Charles David Kincaid #80852, 65.86% with Chas-Tamara #3350 and 65.86% with Treasa's Kin # 4323. I was surprised to see the closeness with 80852 since he is in Group A , set 1a but in looking at Sue's chart we see they both have the same results of 38 and 40 at markers 34 & 35. Even more interesting to me personally is that 80852 believes descent from William Moore Kincaid, son of John Kincaid, Jr, grandson of Captain John Kincaid, great grandson of Joseph Kinkead who died 1774 in Albemarle Co.,VA and my most distant ancestor and yet 80852 does not have the result of 12 on marker 26 like the others of us in A 1b who descend from Joseph. To further confuse matters 83449 believes descent from John Kincaid, Jr like 80852. If both their lineage information is correct which it appears to be, what happened dna wise??? Based on the fact that all the other descendants of Joseph Kinkead show the 12 on marker 26 and 80852 does not, did 80852's dna mutate back to the AAV norm of an 11 results on marker 26 downstream from John Jr.? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liedtke To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing Norman, 5803 is genetically closest to 93625. On 37 markers they differ only at marker 35 where 5803 has a 40 instead of the AAV 39. They both have a 38 at marker 34 where the AAV is 37. 15550 has the AAV of 17 at marker 30 while 5803 and 93625 have the 18 indicative of the A-2b subset. I consider this last mutation to be significant and to have occured at least one generation prior to 1739 when James/Hannah of Rowan Co. NC was born (this line is unvetted). 15550 also has a 38 at marker 35 meaning his line dropped a repetition at this marker while 5803's line gained one. I can pretty much guarantee that 5803 and 93625 are related more closely to each other than to any other participant in the project. Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing Dear Brian, thanks for posting the information about your William Kinkead being a weaver. This is significant because James Kinkead of West Pennsborough Township, later became Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, was a weaver. Your William could have apprenticed with James Kinkead of West Pennsborough. For me, I accept John Kincaid's Revolutionary War pension application as conclusive that he is the son of John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle and that sample 93625 is representative of John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle's line along with his ownership of the land bequeathed to him by his father. I believe your William is from one of these two families: James Kinkead of West Pennsborough/ Dickinson Township or John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle. I would need clarification of which line he is closer to genetically: sample 15550 or 93625. Sincerely Norman Kincaide Cumberland County, PA 1800 James Kinkead, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male 26-45, 2 males 10-16, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-25. USFC, 108:04. 1800 John Kincade, [4164] Toboyne Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male 16-26, 1 male 10-16, 1 female over 45, 3 females 10-16, 2 females to 10. 1800 John Kinkead, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male 26-45, 1 male 16-26, 1 female 26-45, 1 female 10-16, 3 females to 10. USFC, 95:04. 1807 John Kincaid, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census as a tavernkeeper. Cumberland County Historical Society, Carlisle, PA 1807 John Kinkead, [15550] farmer, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical Society, Carlisle, PA 1807 James Kinkead, [15550] weaver, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical Society, Carlisle, PA 1807 James Kinkead, Jr., [15550] laborer, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical Society, Carlisle, PA Cumberland County, PA 1810 James Kinkede, Sr., [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male under 10, 2 males 16-26, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-26. USFC, p. 024. 1810 James Kinkede, Jr., [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male 16-26, 1 female over 45. USFC, p. 024. 1810 John Kenkede, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male 16-26, 1 male 10-16, 2 males under 10, 1 female 16-26, 1 female 10-16, 1 female under 10. USFC, p. 024. 1810 John Kinkede, [93625] Middleton Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male 26-45, 1 female 26-45, 1 female 16-25, 2 females 10-16. USFC, p. 065. Cumberland County, PA 1820 John Kincade, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male over 45, 1 male 16-25, 2 males 10-15, 1 female 26-44, 1 female 10-15. USFC. 1820 John Kinkead, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, 2 males over 45, 1 male 10-15, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-25. USFC. 1820 William Kinked, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 2 males 16-25, 2 males 10-15, 1 female 16-25. USFC. Perry County, PA 1820 William Kinkead, [5803] Rye Township, Perry County, PA, 1 male 26-45, 1 male 16-25, 1 male 10-16, 2 males to 10, 1 female 26-45, 1 female to 10. USFC, p. 337. ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Kincade <briank@sti.net> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2008 6:01:07 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Fishing Norman/Sue/Don: Still exploring for 5803 William Kinkead parents. In comparing DNA 93625 to 5803 in group A set 2b; it shows they match except for marker 34. It would be nice to see how they would match at marker 67. How certain is 93625 to be the s/o John of Carlisle? As Norman has indicated he has suspicions that William Kinkead 1785 possibilty could be a unknown son of Andrew Kinkead 1746, thus a grandson of the merchant of Carlisle. William Kinkead's tax records indicate he was a weaver in Rye Twp, Cumberland Co. and Perry Co. from 1820 to his death in 1849. Records also show that Williams family lived in Rye Twp from 1820 thru 1857 near Sherman Creek along which John Kinkead the merchant retaind property. I am also searching all the census records for various Kinkead spellings for possable birth dates that match Williams 1785; to date no luck in finding that Andrew 1746 is a match. Just Fishing??? 5803 Brian To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotesin the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Don, the way to find out if a second mutation back to the AAV for Group A has occured is to go the expensive route of checking a male decendent from another son for each generation to determined when the mutation may have occured. To short circuit this a little bit another line from William Moore should be found to determine if William Moore had the mutation or not. #80852 has not been vetted so there is the possibility that a connection to William Moore and Joseph is being made in error. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don W. Kincaid" <donwkincaid@cox.net> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > Confirming Sue's message, FTDNA shows Brian # 5803 has an 87.4% > probability of a common ancestor with Bill, #93625, a 72.29% with Charles > David Kincaid #80852, 65.86% with Chas-Tamara #3350 and 65.86% with > Treasa's Kin # 4323. I was surprised to see the closeness with 80852 since > he is in Group A , set 1a but in looking at Sue's chart we see they both > have the same results of 38 and 40 at markers 34 & 35. > > Even more interesting to me personally is that 80852 believes descent from > William Moore Kincaid, son of John Kincaid, Jr, grandson of Captain John > Kincaid, great grandson of Joseph Kinkead who died 1774 in Albemarle > Co.,VA and my most distant ancestor and yet 80852 does not have the result > of 12 on marker 26 like the others of us in A 1b who descend from Joseph. > To further confuse matters 83449 believes descent from John Kincaid, Jr > like 80852. If both their lineage information is correct which it appears > to be, what happened dna wise??? Based on the fact that all the other > descendants of Joseph Kinkead show the 12 on marker 26 and 80852 does not, > did 80852's dna mutate back to the AAV norm of an 11 results on marker 26 > downstream from John Jr.? > > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sue Liedtke > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:55 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > > > Norman, 5803 is genetically closest to 93625. On 37 markers they differ > only > at marker 35 where 5803 has a 40 instead of the AAV 39. They both have a > 38 > at marker 34 where the AAV is 37. 15550 has the AAV of 17 at marker 30 > while > 5803 and 93625 have the 18 indicative of the A-2b subset. I consider this > last mutation to be significant and to have occured at least one > generation > prior to 1739 when James/Hannah of Rowan Co. NC was born (this line is > unvetted). 15550 also has a 38 at marker 35 meaning his line dropped a > repetition at this marker while 5803's line gained one. I can pretty much > guarantee that 5803 and 93625 are related more closely to each other than > to > any other participant in the project. > > Sue > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fishing > > > Dear Brian, thanks for posting the information about your William Kinkead > being a weaver. This is significant because James Kinkead of West > Pennsborough Township, later became Dickinson Township, Cumberland > County, > PA, was a weaver. Your William could have apprenticed with James Kinkead > of > West Pennsborough. > For me, I accept John Kincaid's Revolutionary War pension application as > conclusive that he is the son of John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle and > that > sample 93625 is representative of John Kinkead, Merchant of Carlisle's > line > along with his ownership of the land bequeathed to him by his father. I > believe your William is from one of these two families: James Kinkead of > West Pennsborough/ Dickinson Township or John Kinkead, Merchant of > Carlisle. > I would need clarification of which line he is closer to genetically: > sample > 15550 or 93625. > > Sincerely > Norman Kincaide > > Cumberland County, PA > > 1800 James Kinkead, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 > male over 45, 1 male 26-45, 2 males 10-16, 1 female over 45, 1 female > 16-25. > USFC, 108:04. > 1800 John Kincade, [4164] Toboyne Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male > over 45, 1 male 16-26, 1 male 10-16, 1 female over 45, 3 females 10-16, 2 > females to 10. > 1800 John Kinkead, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, 1 male 26-45, > 1 > male 16-26, 1 female 26-45, 1 female 10-16, 3 females to 10. USFC, 95:04. > > 1807 John Kincaid, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, listed in > 1807 > Septennial Census as a tavernkeeper. Cumberland County Historical > Society, > Carlisle, PA > 1807 John Kinkead, [15550] farmer, Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, > PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical > Society, > Carlisle, PA > 1807 James Kinkead, [15550] weaver, Dickinson Township, Cumberland > County, > PA, listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical > Society, > Carlisle, PA > 1807 James Kinkead, Jr., [15550] laborer, Dickinson Township, Cumberland > County, PA listed in 1807 Septennial Census. Cumberland County Historical > Society, Carlisle, PA > > Cumberland County, PA > 1810 James Kinkede, Sr., [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, > PA, > 1 male over 45, > 1 male under 10, 2 males 16-26, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-26. USFC, > p. > 024. > 1810 James Kinkede, Jr., [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, > PA, > 1 male 16-26, 1 female over 45. USFC, p. 024. > 1810 John Kenkede, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 > male > 16-26, 1 male 10-16, 2 males under 10, 1 female 16-26, 1 female 10-16, 1 > female under 10. USFC, p. 024. > 1810 John Kinkede, [93625] Middleton Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 > male > over 45, 1 male 26-45, 1 female 26-45, 1 female 16-25, 2 females 10-16. > USFC, p. 065. > > Cumberland County, PA > 1820 John Kincade, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 1 > male > over 45, 1 male 16-25, 2 males 10-15, 1 female 26-44, 1 female 10-15. > USFC. > 1820 John Kinkead, [93625] Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA, 2 males over > 45, > 1 male 10-15, 1 female over 45, 1 female 16-25. USFC. > 1820 William Kinked, [15550] Dickinson Township, Cumberland County, PA, 2 > males 16-25, 2 males 10-15, 1 female 16-25. USFC. > > Perry County, PA > 1820 William Kinkead, [5803] Rye Township, Perry County, PA, 1 male > 26-45, 1 > male 16-25, 1 male 10-16, 2 males to 10, 1 female 26-45, 1 female to 10. > USFC, p. 337. > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Brian Kincade <briank@sti.net> > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Thursday, September 4, 2008 6:01:07 PM > Subject: [KINCAID] Fishing > > Norman/Sue/Don: > Still exploring for 5803 William Kinkead parents. In comparing DNA 93625 > to > 5803 in group A set 2b; it shows they match except for marker 34. It > would > be nice to see how they would match at marker 67. How certain is 93625 to > be > the s/o John of Carlisle? > As Norman has indicated he has suspicions that William Kinkead 1785 > possibilty could be a unknown son of Andrew Kinkead 1746, thus a grandson > of > the merchant of Carlisle. > > William Kinkead's tax records indicate he was a weaver in Rye Twp, > Cumberland Co. and Perry Co. from 1820 to his death in 1849. Records also > show that Williams family lived in Rye Twp from 1820 thru 1857 near > Sherman > Creek along which John Kinkead the merchant retaind property. > > I am also searching all the census records for various Kinkead spellings > for > possable birth dates that match Williams 1785; to date no luck in finding > that Andrew 1746 is a match. > Just Fishing??? > 5803 Brian > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotesin the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message