I respectfully disagree with your conclusion that the 67 markers have little value. I see them as having the only real value and all other tests having little value beyond their initial grouping. I will concur though that the 37-67 marker block were composed of more stable markers that the first 37. I think the problem with your reasoning is the notion that the 15 identical results mean nothing. I am of the opinion that they mean exactly what they say - that these 15 participants are closely related and the common ancestor is likely within a generation or two of the earliest known one. I am of the strong opinion that we have an over representation of this particular line of Kincaids. If you have one patriarch 300 years ago having male descendants out producing all other Kincaid lines then you will get a lot of 67 marker matches for that man's descendants. Furthermore, a look of Scottish records show that the bulk of Kincaids in Scottish records are of the Warriston/Auchenreoch line or of the Group B line of Aileen Kincaids. Surely they will represent the bulk of participants for their group but this does not mean they represent the ancestral values for the group. The 37-67 marker results for set 1a may reflect that of the true ancestral values but this does not mean the first 37 of set 1a do. I challenge those who think set 1a represents the true ancestral values for Group A to get more Kincaid participants that do not have Colonial American roots in order to prove their beliefs. I believe this notion will fall apart pretty quickly. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: Kincaid Rootsweb List Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:40 PM Subject: [KINCAID] 67 marker DNA test analysis & info on The Gathering ofthe Clans in Scotland Since we have received several questions about possibly upgrading to 67 markers on the DNA test, we did a review of the 67 marker results to date. It appears the 67 marker test is of little value unless you want to do it for your descendants or have a close match you want to further define, at least for Group A. Group A has a total of 24 who have done the 67 marker test. Of those 24, 15 of them have identical results for the 38 through 67 marker series broken down as follows: Group A Set 1a: 5 tests 5 identical results (AAV for Group A) Group A Set 1b: 6 tests 4 identical results to 1a Group A Set 1c: 2 tests 1 identical results to 1a Group A Set 2a: 6 tests 3 identical results to 1a Group A Set 2b: 3 tests 2 identical results to 1a Group A Set 4 2 tests 0 identical results to 1a Group A as a whole has 62.5% who have identical results for the 38 through 67 markers which seems to me to indicate that the first 37 markers are the real identifying markers for Group A participants. This confirms Sue's selection of Set 1a results as the AAV or Apparent Ancestral Values for Group A. Group B 3 tests 2 identical Group C1 0 tests Group C2 5 tests 1 shown as AAV for C2 No 67 markers tests show for Groups D, E, F, G or H We have been invited by President Joan Kincaid of the Clan Kincaid Association to display the Kincaid Surname DNA results chart at The Gathering of the Clans next year in Scotland and have accepted the invitation. Joan will be hosting the Kincaid Tent at The Gathering along with other Kincaid's including our Chief Arabella Kincaid of Kincaid. There is information about The Gathering of the Clans and Clan Kincaid sponsored trip in connection with it on the Clan Kincaid website. As of today there are 5 pending Kincaid DNA tests of various kinds at the test lab with all scheduled to be reported by mid January. Yours aye, Don W. Kincaid