Thanks, Sue for the summary.  I found a chart at the Duncan Roots.com webpage and it has an interesting chart format that might be of use to our project.  See the link here: http://dsa.duncanroots.com/Clan_News/DNAreport2007.1.htm I find this chart makes it clearer to me who is the common ancestor or likely common ancestor. If that link doesn't work go here and then to DNA report 2007.1 http://www.dsa.duncanroots.com/ Sincerely Norman Kincaide ----- Original Message ---- From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:16:06 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Chart Summary The following is a summary of Groups and sets in the DNA chart. A-1 information was posted earlier but is included her for continuity. Group A has the largest number of participants. This may be due to the higher interest of descendents of colonial ancestors in genealogy though there are participants whose ancestors did not migrate to N America. Set 1 has a 10 at marker 15. I have chosen values from this set to represent the Apparent Ancestral Values for the entire group. Others have suggested that the AAV for marker 15 should be 9. Additional participants and documents may show us better which is correct. A-1a-- about 1/2 of the ancestors in this set can be traced to Augusta/Greenbrier Co. VA. This area is very complicated and the number of participants reflects an attempt to use every tool possible to sort the families. The rest of the set is scattered with the earliest ancestors being Rev. Joseph b c1724 Co. Down, Ireland and William/Sarah b c 1700 of New Castle, DE. Other participants have traced to Westmoreland Co. PA, NJ, Monongalia Co VA, Cecil Co. MD, Tippecanoe and Crawford Co. IN A-1b-- subgrouped by appearance of a 12 at marker 26. The earliest ancestor is Joseph m c 1726 of Albemarle Co. VA,  probable connections to John of Sadsbury PA through sons Samuel b 1736 and David, and possible connection to John the Patriarch b 1710 of Burke Co. NC. There is also probable connection to David/Winnefred of Alb. Co. VA. Others trace to Lewis Co. TN, Morgan Co. OH  and various KY counties. A-1c-- subgrouped by appearance of an 11 at marker 4. This set may or may not be related more closely to each other than to someone in A-1a. The marker 4 eleven is an unreliable indicator. In this set are 3 who trace to Robert/Mary Bowman b 1742 of Hardin Co. KY, 2 who trace to Thomas and John of Campbell Co. TN (originally from Greenbrier Co. VA), two more who trace to Greenbrier Co. VA, one who traces to Ontario, Canada, one to Gilmer Co. GA, and the earliest of the set to James/Helen Scott of Falkirk Parish Scotland (d 1669). Group A-2. Set 2 and 4 is distinguished from set 1 by a 9 at marker 15. A-2a. Earliest ancestor is George/Jean Mitchell b 1733 of Cumberland Co. PA. One ancestor Samuel/Johanna Walch b 1811 did not leave Ireland. Other members from Fayette Co. WVA and Westmoreland Co. PA A-2b This set has an 18 a marker 30. Earliest ancestors are James/Hannah b 1739 of Rowan Co. NC , Andrew/Martha Townsley b 1745 of Cumberland Co. PA and John/Anna Gregory b 1749 of PA (perhaps son of John of Carlisle). Later ancestors show up in Maury and Wilson Cos. TN. A-4 This set has a 14 at marker 19 and a 36 at marker 34. Four participants descend from David/Elizabeth Gardiner b 1798 who migrated from Londonderry, Ireland to New Brunswick, Canada. Three of these were recruited to successfully isolate mutations. The others are associated with Co. Tyrone, Ireland. Two of these descend from a suspected brother of David. A-undetermined. One participant has not upgraded to 37 markers. He is set 2 but the subset cannot be determined. Another particpant has results for markers 1-12 so his set cannot be determined. Group B The earliest participant is vetted to John/Margaret Blair b 1748 of Campsie Parish Scotland. The other 3 trace to Tyrone and Donegal Cos Ireland. Group C-1 All but one participant trace to Donegal Co., Ireland. Three of these trace to John/Catherin Coulter b 1759. One participant traces to Indiana. Group C-2. This Group may not be genetically linked to C-1, however, the C designation has been retained for both groups because of early use within the project. The earliest ancestors for this group trace to George/Elizabeth Dean b c1720 of Augusta Co. VA, Samuel/Margaret Clark b c1717 of Augusta Co. Va and Robert/Margaret Doherty of m pr1745 of Alleghany Co. PA. Others trace to Washington Co. PA, Harrison Co., KY, Jackson Co, OH, Washington Co., OH and Muscatine Co. IA. Group D. Two participants trace to John/Elizabeth b c1730 of Bath Co. VA (John of Bath) and two participants trace to William/Sarah Smith b 1806 of Gasconade Co. MO Group E. Two participants. Each trace to Alexander Kinket b 1710 of Dordreicht Netherlands Group F. Two participants. Only one with listed ancestor. He traces to James/Janet Manuel b 1739 of Stirlingshire, Scotland Group G. Two participants who are not closely matched but share enough likenesses that they appear to be from the same stalk. One traces to James/Jane Watson b 1800 of Tyrone Co. Ireland and the other to Robert/Isabella Nutt b 1855 Londonderry Ireland Group H. Two participants in Haplogroup E3b. One has not upgraded from 12 markers and has no ancestor named. The other traces to David/Ann Tozieer Jenkins of New Hampshire. Ungrouped. These participants have no match within the project. This may be due to an unknown break in the Kincaid male lineage or that other participants have not surfaced from this particular line. Among this group are participants tracing to Charles/Apphia b 1804 of Cumberland Co. Maine, George/Margaret b 1825 of New York, New York, Thomas b 1745 of Indiana, Thomas/Mary Echkels b 1802 of Coschocton, OH, and James Torrance/Mary Moor b 1800 of Alleghany Co. PA. Sue Liedtke To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Without a web page devoted to the DNA study, where would such a chart be housed so that all could access it. Alice has very kindly been hosting the chart itself but we cannot ask her to use more space to add more explanatory information. If there is someone who has the time and expertise to create a webpage then a chart like displayed at the Duncan site would be do-able though our chart would be a bit more complicated. Although we have several lines represented with multiple participants most of the lines hit a brick wall before connecting with any degree of accuracy to a common ancestor. It has long been a desire that all linkages, vetted and otherwise be disclosed for each participant. This would certainly be an advantage to others trying to connect in and to others researching specific locations. Here again we have the access problem. We also have another problem in that until we started vetting to the list the lineages of participants were not publically disclosed. While Peter may be able to fill us in on participants who joined during his tenure as administrator, Leslie did not share information she received from those who joined during her tenure. We do not have linkage information for the lines she vetted much less those lines that are not vetted. Quit frankly it is difficult to get each participant to disclose their lineage information, some have gone on to other pursuits, others have died, some where recruited to represent a particular ancestor but though willing to donate DNA have little interest in disclosing publically their lineage or pursuing further connections and many do not have the time to gather the needed information. I am reluctant to further expand the chart as it is already so large and as we gain further participants will even become larger. I would not rule out producing another chart with the repetitions eliminated or, as more connections are proven, doing some revamping of the present chart to add additional information where the common earliest ancestor is repeated on several lines. Unfortunately, at this time, doing this would not help a great deal as we have implicated but unproven connections in many cases. What I can do is, as I have time, use the summary technique and list posts to show the state of research in each group-set. However, in doing so, I would be using my viewpoint which may not be accurate. I would like to encourage all those who have not gone through the vetting process to do so and those who were vetted by Leslie to disclose the linkages to their vetted ancestor. We could do a whole lot more if we had a dedicated web-page. Any takers?? Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Chart Summary Thanks, Sue for the summary. I found a chart at the Duncan Roots.com webpage and it has an interesting chart format that might be of use to our project. See the link here: http://dsa.duncanroots.com/Clan_News/DNAreport2007.1.htm I find this chart makes it clearer to me who is the common ancestor or likely common ancestor. If that link doesn't work go here and then to DNA report 2007.1 http://www.dsa.duncanroots.com/ Sincerely Norman Kincaide ----- Original Message ---- From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 4:16:06 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Chart Summary The following is a summary of Groups and sets in the DNA chart. A-1 information was posted earlier but is included her for continuity. Group A has the largest number of participants. This may be due to the higher interest of descendents of colonial ancestors in genealogy though there are participants whose ancestors did not migrate to N America. Set 1 has a 10 at marker 15. I have chosen values from this set to represent the Apparent Ancestral Values for the entire group. Others have suggested that the AAV for marker 15 should be 9. Additional participants and documents may show us better which is correct. A-1a-- about 1/2 of the ancestors in this set can be traced to Augusta/Greenbrier Co. VA. This area is very complicated and the number of participants reflects an attempt to use every tool possible to sort the families. The rest of the set is scattered with the earliest ancestors being Rev. Joseph b c1724 Co. Down, Ireland and William/Sarah b c 1700 of New Castle, DE. Other participants have traced to Westmoreland Co. PA, NJ, Monongalia Co VA, Cecil Co. MD, Tippecanoe and Crawford Co. IN A-1b-- subgrouped by appearance of a 12 at marker 26. The earliest ancestor is Joseph m c 1726 of Albemarle Co. VA, probable connections to John of Sadsbury PA through sons Samuel b 1736 and David, and possible connection to John the Patriarch b 1710 of Burke Co. NC. There is also probable connection to David/Winnefred of Alb. Co. VA. Others trace to Lewis Co. TN, Morgan Co. OH and various KY counties. A-1c-- subgrouped by appearance of an 11 at marker 4. This set may or may not be related more closely to each other than to someone in A-1a. The marker 4 eleven is an unreliable indicator. In this set are 3 who trace to Robert/Mary Bowman b 1742 of Hardin Co. KY, 2 who trace to Thomas and John of Campbell Co. TN (originally from Greenbrier Co. VA), two more who trace to Greenbrier Co. VA, one who traces to Ontario, Canada, one to Gilmer Co. GA, and the earliest of the set to James/Helen Scott of Falkirk Parish Scotland (d 1669). Group A-2. Set 2 and 4 is distinguished from set 1 by a 9 at marker 15. A-2a. Earliest ancestor is George/Jean Mitchell b 1733 of Cumberland Co. PA. One ancestor Samuel/Johanna Walch b 1811 did not leave Ireland. Other members from Fayette Co. WVA and Westmoreland Co. PA A-2b This set has an 18 a marker 30. Earliest ancestors are James/Hannah b 1739 of Rowan Co. NC , Andrew/Martha Townsley b 1745 of Cumberland Co. PA and John/Anna Gregory b 1749 of PA (perhaps son of John of Carlisle). Later ancestors show up in Maury and Wilson Cos. TN. A-4 This set has a 14 at marker 19 and a 36 at marker 34. Four participants descend from David/Elizabeth Gardiner b 1798 who migrated from Londonderry, Ireland to New Brunswick, Canada. Three of these were recruited to successfully isolate mutations. The others are associated with Co. Tyrone, Ireland. Two of these descend from a suspected brother of David. A-undetermined. One participant has not upgraded to 37 markers. He is set 2 but the subset cannot be determined. Another particpant has results for markers 1-12 so his set cannot be determined. Group B The earliest participant is vetted to John/Margaret Blair b 1748 of Campsie Parish Scotland. The other 3 trace to Tyrone and Donegal Cos Ireland. Group C-1 All but one participant trace to Donegal Co., Ireland. Three of these trace to John/Catherin Coulter b 1759. One participant traces to Indiana. Group C-2. This Group may not be genetically linked to C-1, however, the C designation has been retained for both groups because of early use within the project. The earliest ancestors for this group trace to George/Elizabeth Dean b c1720 of Augusta Co. VA, Samuel/Margaret Clark b c1717 of Augusta Co. Va and Robert/Margaret Doherty of m pr1745 of Alleghany Co. PA. Others trace to Washington Co. PA, Harrison Co., KY, Jackson Co, OH, Washington Co., OH and Muscatine Co. IA. Group D. Two participants trace to John/Elizabeth b c1730 of Bath Co. VA (John of Bath) and two participants trace to William/Sarah Smith b 1806 of Gasconade Co. MO Group E. Two participants. Each trace to Alexander Kinket b 1710 of Dordreicht Netherlands Group F. Two participants. Only one with listed ancestor. He traces to James/Janet Manuel b 1739 of Stirlingshire, Scotland Group G. Two participants who are not closely matched but share enough likenesses that they appear to be from the same stalk. One traces to James/Jane Watson b 1800 of Tyrone Co. Ireland and the other to Robert/Isabella Nutt b 1855 Londonderry Ireland Group H. Two participants in Haplogroup E3b. One has not upgraded from 12 markers and has no ancestor named. The other traces to David/Ann Tozieer Jenkins of New Hampshire. Ungrouped. These participants have no match within the project. This may be due to an unknown break in the Kincaid male lineage or that other participants have not surfaced from this particular line. Among this group are participants tracing to Charles/Apphia b 1804 of Cumberland Co. Maine, George/Margaret b 1825 of New York, New York, Thomas b 1745 of Indiana, Thomas/Mary Echkels b 1802 of Coschocton, OH, and James Torrance/Mary Moor b 1800 of Alleghany Co. PA. Sue Liedtke To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotesin the subject and the body of the message