That was very kind of you, Kim. Alice Gedge -----Original Message----- From: Kim Kincaid Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 10:25 AM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: [KINCAID] Archibald Kincaid of Pike County, Illinois I had the chance to stop at the Pike County Courthouse on my way home to Kansas. I checked the Probate Records for Kincaid's and found three packets. >From the papers in these packets I found the following information Probate Packet 732 - Archibald Kincaid 1. Archibald died intestate, March of 1856. 2. In July 1856, Albert St John was appointed administrator and Archibald's heirs were listed as his wife Margaret and minor children Russell and Susan. 3. A sale bill of household items is in the packet and the majority of items were purchased by Elizabeth Johnson 3. On 10 April 1857 the administrator reported that the estate was insolvent and that Margaret was now deceased. There was a piece of property that was sold. 4. On the promissory notes present in the probate packet, Archibald Kincaid signed his name Arch or Archibald Kincaid. Probate Packet 365 - Minor, Russell Kincaid - Elizabeth Johnson appointed Guardian of Russell & Susan Kincaid on 8 Sept 1857 Probate Packet 374 - Minor, Susan Kincaid - A document lists the dates of birth - Susan Kingcade born June 1852 & Russell Kingcade born 23 May 1850 - William & Harrison Johnson appointed Guardians on 23 Dec 1868 - Final Settlement 7 Oct 1871 signed by both Russell and Susan Kingcade 1870 Census Hardin, Pike, Illinois living with the Washington Browdy Family Illinois Marriages Archibald Kinkaid & Margaret Johnson 1 Dec 1842, Pike County, Illinois Missouri Marriages Russell Kinkade & Mary E Thrush 23 Sept 1871, Audrain County, Illinois Russell moved to California and died Dec. 31, 1938 in Long Beach. He is Find A Grave memorial 103183488 Russell Kingcade Barbara Van Hout, in a post from 23 Aug 2013 states: " The will of George Kincaid of Greene County, IL, dated Feb. 28, 1844, is written on the family search page below. His wife Polly Kincaid was the executrix. George gave everything to his wife Polly, and his son Archibald of Pike County, IL is the only child mentioned. Archibald was to received George's set of blacksmith tools. George had died by Oct. 21, 1844, according to these documents." https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-17909-31031-28?cc=1834344&wc=M9MT-BZW:n1299987272 I hope this information will help someone. Kim Kincaid (Kit 122441) For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For those of you who are interested in the dna history of the Kincaid dna as well as all dna go to the U-106 website shown below and click on the u106-results.pdf file. Depending on your computer settings, you may have to open the file after it appears on the bottom left of your screen. Please read the notes about the chart which explains the limitations of the chart. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b1c_U106-S21/files/%20Age%20Analysis/

Morning Kincaid Listers, Last June, when we were going to be gone for a while, we stopped the U-106 DNA Group emails. After getting my Big Y results I knew there would be lots of activity about the Big Y results so I got back on the U-106 List and I had over 12,000 emails for posts to the U-106 Yahoo Group since last June! During the past few days I have slogged through them, deleting most but saving about 50 that pertain to Kincaid dna plus a few gems like the one below written by Charles Moore, Administrator of the U-106 dna group. So now we know we are Explorers in the process of Discovery! In our own time, we sometimes wonder what we are accomplishing trying to extend our genealogies with DNA testing. We incur high expense, and several years later we still can't say very well when and where the founders of our groups lived, what kind of people the members of our groups were, how they got there from wherever, and how we got here from there. The fact is that we are the pioneers. We are literally laying down the markers that others will have to match for years to come. We wonder if we have obsessed over DNA to the point of mistakenly making it an end unto itself, when all it is is a bridge over The Genealogical Gap. Well, we can stop wondering. DNA is much more than merely that. It is a pathway to a healthier future with personalized medicine. And it is also perfectly OK even if it does become an end unto itself for some of us. DNA is what and who we are. It is a Treasure Hunt that never ends. We are explorers. We are engaged in the process of Discovery. We do this to benefit ourselves, but also to make a contribution to others, while we are still here.

Larry, There are 150 who are doing the Big Y as of yesterday so that is a small percentage of the total Y dna 37, 67 and 111 participants in the world. There are participants from several countries and Y dna results from several other companies are being used to analyze the Big Y results. It will take another few months to really determine the worth of the Big Y dna test. There were 12 participants in the first batch which is too few to draw good conclusions as to our ancestors locations and kin 2,000 to 4,000 years ago. I did the Big Y for the benefit of all Kincaid's as well as for my descendants and my personal satisfaction of knowing more about my ancestors. We are fortunate that the U-107 dna group has several deep thinkers and do'ers like Peter and they are already putting together analytical spreadsheets and using new tools in getting ready for the other Big Y results. Peter is doing a great job of siftingand sorting my SNP results, analyzing and comparing them. In the meantime your approach looks good however there will be many new SNP's come into play for you in time. Don 1427 -----Original Message----- From: Larry Kincaid Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 10:48 AM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KINCAID] 1427's Big Y dna results Wow. Are we really going to have to get used to such a large number of potential differences? I think I'll follow some of the earlier advice and watch which way the branches blow . . . uh . . . follow where my snp's are going and try to get tested just for those as they become known and better understood. I'm currently on the SNP branch that goes from L21 - L1335 - L1065, and now waiting for the only new SNP offered for $39 by FTDNA, S691/Z13851, which looks like it's going down the branch occupied further down by a subset of MacGregors and perhaps some other related surnames from the same area in Scotland. Don (Larry) Kincaid, Group C-2 On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 5:55 PM, Peter Kincaid <7kincaid@nb.sympatico.ca>wrote: > Further to my last message, Don has 34 novel snps that > are not named yet by ftdna. They may have equivalents > with another company, and other families may come along > that have some of them as well, so it is too early to say how > many of them are Kincaid snps. A number of them will be. > > In addition to that, there appears to be 42 snps that Don > was negative for but Sinclair and Frank were positive for. > This separates us from them. > > Now we have to wait to see more about the novel snps. > > Best wishes! > > Peter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Kincaid > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 11:33 PM > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] 1427's Big Y dna results > > Well Don has very interesting results. First to be noted was > the Kincaids were like the Sinclairs of Roslin and Frank of > Germany in that the confirmed terminal snp was DF102. > Today I found a bunch of snps that Sinclair and/or Frank tested > positive for which Don tested negative for. Thus, it looks like > we branched off the Z346 before these two other lines. We > certainly are not Sinclairs. > > Lots of work left to do. > > Best wishes! > > Peter Kincaid > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don W Kincaid > Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 1:35 PM > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Subject: [KINCAID] 1427's Big Y dna results > > There is a map of the L-48 Haplogroup my Big Y results shows our Group A > Kincaid's are part of at > > > http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/348/ > > > Great Britain and Germany are very prominent. I read that the L-48 > Haplogroup is the largest one for Europe. > > Don > > > > > For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, > including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: > > www.kincaiddna.org > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- dddddddd For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, I am, through their daughter, Susannah, who married William Dugan. Sent from my iPad > On Mar 5, 2014, at 1:33 PM, "Don W Kincaid" <donwkincaid@cox.net> wrote: > > Since there were many posts on the Kincaid List about James Kincaid of York County, SC I was delighted to find that a descendant of James, Linda Purcell, is a Family Finder DNA match with me. It seems James came from County Tyrone in N. Ireland which is the county Peter thinks my Kincaids were in before coming to the Colony of Virginia. Linda and I assume our common ancestor will be from County Tryone or if not, then prior to 1688 in Scotland. Linda is looking to see if a male Kincaid descended from James can be found to do a Y dna test. > > Don > > For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: > > www.kincaiddna.org > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes on James and Susannah. Are you a descendant? Don -----Original Message----- From: Sandra T Hereford Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 1:02 PM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid, York County, SC Is this James Kincaid (1762-1837) who married Susannah Black? -----Original Message----- From: kincaid-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kincaid-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Don W Kincaid Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 1:33 PM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: [KINCAID] James Kincaid, York County, SC Since there were many posts on the Kincaid List about James Kincaid of York County, SC I was delighted to find that a descendant of James, Linda Purcell, is a Family Finder DNA match with me. It seems James came from County Tyrone in N. Ireland which is the county Peter thinks my Kincaids were in before coming to the Colony of Virginia. Linda and I assume our common ancestor will be from County Tryone or if not, then prior to 1688 in Scotland. Linda is looking to see if a male Kincaid descended from James can be found to do a Y dna test. Don For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is this James Kincaid (1762-1837) who married Susannah Black? -----Original Message----- From: kincaid-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kincaid-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Don W Kincaid Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 1:33 PM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: [KINCAID] James Kincaid, York County, SC Since there were many posts on the Kincaid List about James Kincaid of York County, SC I was delighted to find that a descendant of James, Linda Purcell, is a Family Finder DNA match with me. It seems James came from County Tyrone in N. Ireland which is the county Peter thinks my Kincaids were in before coming to the Colony of Virginia. Linda and I assume our common ancestor will be from County Tryone or if not, then prior to 1688 in Scotland. Linda is looking to see if a male Kincaid descended from James can be found to do a Y dna test. Don For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bird blenders are wind turbines. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Don W Kincaid Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 9:38 PM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Google satellie view of Barons Court Dick, How do we identify Bonnie Bell? And what are bird blenders? Don -----Original Message----- From: Dick Kinkead Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 5:21 PM To: Genealogy KINCAID Subject: [KINCAID] Google satellie view of Barons Court https://www.google.com/maps/@54.7025455,-7.4009614,4958m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en Folks- I haven’t looked there in a while and the last time I did there wasn’t much there. NOW, though, Google Maps satellite provides a very good, very detailed view of Newtownstewart, Barons Court and the damn bird blenders on top of Bonnie Bell. This is the area of Northern Ireland my Kinkeads hail from (haven’t been able yet to connect them to Scotland, but I am hopeful.) Dick Kinkead 2562 A1a For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.7025455,-7.4009614,4958m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en Folks- I haven’t looked there in a while and the last time I did there wasn’t much there. NOW, though, Google Maps satellite provides a very good, very detailed view of Newtownstewart, Barons Court and the damn bird blenders on top of Bonnie Bell. This is the area of Northern Ireland my Kinkeads hail from (haven’t been able yet to connect them to Scotland, but I am hopeful.) Dick Kinkead 2562 A1a

Dick, How do we identify Bonnie Bell? And what are bird blenders? Don -----Original Message----- From: Dick Kinkead Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2014 5:21 PM To: Genealogy KINCAID Subject: [KINCAID] Google satellie view of Barons Court https://www.google.com/maps/@54.7025455,-7.4009614,4958m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en Folks- I haven’t looked there in a while and the last time I did there wasn’t much there. NOW, though, Google Maps satellite provides a very good, very detailed view of Newtownstewart, Barons Court and the damn bird blenders on top of Bonnie Bell. This is the area of Northern Ireland my Kinkeads hail from (haven’t been able yet to connect them to Scotland, but I am hopeful.) Dick Kinkead 2562 A1a For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Since there were many posts on the Kincaid List about James Kincaid of York County, SC I was delighted to find that a descendant of James, Linda Purcell, is a Family Finder DNA match with me. It seems James came from County Tyrone in N. Ireland which is the county Peter thinks my Kincaids were in before coming to the Colony of Virginia. Linda and I assume our common ancestor will be from County Tryone or if not, then prior to 1688 in Scotland. Linda is looking to see if a male Kincaid descended from James can be found to do a Y dna test. Don

Wow. Are we really going to have to get used to such a large number of potential differences? I think I'll follow some of the earlier advice and watch which way the branches blow . . . uh . . . follow where my snp's are going and try to get tested just for those as they become known and better understood. I'm currently on the SNP branch that goes from L21 - L1335 - L1065, and now waiting for the only new SNP offered for $39 by FTDNA, S691/Z13851, which looks like it's going down the branch occupied further down by a subset of MacGregors and perhaps some other related surnames from the same area in Scotland. Don (Larry) Kincaid, Group C-2 On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 5:55 PM, Peter Kincaid <7kincaid@nb.sympatico.ca>wrote: > Further to my last message, Don has 34 novel snps that > are not named yet by ftdna. They may have equivalents > with another company, and other families may come along > that have some of them as well, so it is too early to say how > many of them are Kincaid snps. A number of them will be. > > In addition to that, there appears to be 42 snps that Don > was negative for but Sinclair and Frank were positive for. > This separates us from them. > > Now we have to wait to see more about the novel snps. > > Best wishes! > > Peter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Kincaid > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 11:33 PM > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] 1427's Big Y dna results > > Well Don has very interesting results. First to be noted was > the Kincaids were like the Sinclairs of Roslin and Frank of > Germany in that the confirmed terminal snp was DF102. > Today I found a bunch of snps that Sinclair and/or Frank tested > positive for which Don tested negative for. Thus, it looks like > we branched off the Z346 before these two other lines. We > certainly are not Sinclairs. > > Lots of work left to do. > > Best wishes! > > Peter Kincaid > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don W Kincaid > Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 1:35 PM > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Subject: [KINCAID] 1427's Big Y dna results > > There is a map of the L-48 Haplogroup my Big Y results shows our Group A > Kincaid's are part of at > > > http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/348/ > > > Great Britain and Germany are very prominent. I read that the L-48 > Haplogroup is the largest one for Europe. > > Don > > > > > For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, > including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: > > www.kincaiddna.org > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- dddddddd

Further to my last message, Don has 34 novel snps that are not named yet by ftdna. They may have equivalents with another company, and other families may come along that have some of them as well, so it is too early to say how many of them are Kincaid snps. A number of them will be. In addition to that, there appears to be 42 snps that Don was negative for but Sinclair and Frank were positive for. This separates us from them. Now we have to wait to see more about the novel snps. Best wishes! Peter -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kincaid Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 11:33 PM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KINCAID] 1427's Big Y dna results Well Don has very interesting results. First to be noted was the Kincaids were like the Sinclairs of Roslin and Frank of Germany in that the confirmed terminal snp was DF102. Today I found a bunch of snps that Sinclair and/or Frank tested positive for which Don tested negative for. Thus, it looks like we branched off the Z346 before these two other lines. We certainly are not Sinclairs. Lots of work left to do. Best wishes! Peter Kincaid -----Original Message----- From: Don W Kincaid Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 1:35 PM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: [KINCAID] 1427's Big Y dna results There is a map of the L-48 Haplogroup my Big Y results shows our Group A Kincaid’s are part of at http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/348/ Great Britain and Germany are very prominent. I read that the L-48 Haplogroup is the largest one for Europe. Don

Well Don has very interesting results. First to be noted was the Kincaids were like the Sinclairs of Roslin and Frank of Germany in that the confirmed terminal snp was DF102. Today I found a bunch of snps that Sinclair and/or Frank tested positive for which Don tested negative for. Thus, it looks like we branched off the Z346 before these two other lines. We certainly are not Sinclairs. Lots of work left to do. Best wishes! Peter Kincaid -----Original Message----- From: Don W Kincaid Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 1:35 PM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: [KINCAID] 1427's Big Y dna results There is a map of the L-48 Haplogroup my Big Y results shows our Group A Kincaid’s are part of at http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/348/ Great Britain and Germany are very prominent. I read that the L-48 Haplogroup is the largest one for Europe. Don For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There is a map of the L-48 Haplogroup my Big Y results shows our Group A Kincaid’s are part of at http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/map-snp/348/ Great Britain and Germany are very prominent. I read that the L-48 Haplogroup is the largest one for Europe. Don

Hi Don, This is all very exciting. As we would expect the SNPs take us back before we had surnames to other people who test the same way: have a common ancestor that branches off at the same point. For the Kincaid group, this means that in addition to working from the present backward in time via genealogy and DNA testing, we can now jump back further in time and try to track our particular group forward in time to see how they ever got to Scotland and perhaps Campsie Parish. With my own SNP branches, the only way I could find out anything is to google the last known SNP point and see what others say about it. When I googled r 148, frisian comes up immediately. This origin had already been identified by Peter as associated with the R-U106. Only the R-148 takes us closer in time and narrows down the other living matches who share the 148 SNP. This applies to the Group A Kincaid's in general, I assume, but as you suggest we need to wait to here what Peter says about it. Apparently, the Sinclair's are also on the same line and can be traced from the Frisian location over to Scotland at some point, which is what I'm really hoping we can do. Here's what this particular site says about it. Larry (Don) Kincaid, Group C-2 (with SNP's that trace back to the early Picts living in Scotland in the area north of Glasgow (according to speculation on the web). r l48 frisian http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/frisians.html The Frisian people live in coastal areas near the North Sea in Europe. Originally part of an independent nation of Frisia, part of the land was overcome by the sea and the Frisians later fell under the rule of foreign peoples. Today there are West/Westlauwers Frisians (in Fryslân in the Netherlands), North Frisians (in Nordfriesland in Germany, which was part of Denmark until 1864), Saterland Frisians (in Saterland in Germany), and East Frisians (in Lower Saxony in Germany) who speak distinctive languages and dialects. Some Frisians adopted the languages of their neighbors and intermarried with them while others have preserved their language and traditions. . . . Genetically, *R1b* haplogroups are very commonly found in the Y chromosomes of Frisian males just as in the males of other ethnic groups in this geographic region (Atlantic-bordering Europe). The "Frisian Modal Haplotype" (FMH), called R1b-8, was discovered by Kenneth Nordtvedt and is tested by looking at only 6 markers. Below R1b-8 on the genetic tree is R-U106, and a level below R-U106 on the tree are subclades including R-L47, R-L48, R-L48x, and R-L148. On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Don W Kincaid <donwkincaid@cox.net> wrote: > My Big Y dna results are in. Family Tree DNA tested 36567 entries, then > filtered them down to 648 entries which are relevant to me. Of the 648 > entries, 75 are novel variants specific to me. As other Big Y participants > show one or more of these 75 variants, they will be shifted to the known > SNP column. > > At present they do not show who you might be closely related to like in > the other dna tests and it will take a keen mind to do comparisons with > other participants. I have asked Peter to review my results and make > comments. If any other deep thinker wants to have access to my Big Y > results to analyze, send me an email off list to donwkincaid@cox.net and > I will send you my password. > > The biggest result I have seen in a few minutes looking is that my deep > Haplogroup is definitely R - L48 which is a derivative of SNP U106 . > > If anyone wants to know my result for any specific SNP, let me know and I > will look it up. I will not be able to download all the results into a > spreadsheet until early March according to FTDNA however the find feature > is active now. > > Don W Kincaid # 1427 > > For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, > including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: > > www.kincaiddna.org > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- dddddddd

My Big Y dna results are in. Family Tree DNA tested 36567 entries, then filtered them down to 648 entries which are relevant to me. Of the 648 entries, 75 are novel variants specific to me. As other Big Y participants show one or more of these 75 variants, they will be shifted to the known SNP column. At present they do not show who you might be closely related to like in the other dna tests and it will take a keen mind to do comparisons with other participants. I have asked Peter to review my results and make comments. If any other deep thinker wants to have access to my Big Y results to analyze, send me an email off list to donwkincaid@cox.net and I will send you my password. The biggest result I have seen in a few minutes looking is that my deep Haplogroup is definitely R – L48 which is a derivative of SNP U106 . If anyone wants to know my result for any specific SNP, let me know and I will look it up. I will not be able to download all the results into a spreadsheet until early March according to FTDNA however the find feature is active now. Don W Kincaid # 1427

"I still have the letters. I have only transcribed two - the third letter isso damaged it is almost unreadable, but I'll send it along anyway." Concerning one letter being unreadable. By scanning the letter you should be able to enhance and read what has been written. I've done this with "unreadable" bible pages Kim Kincaid

I'm sorry but I have to say that this is more propaganda value than anything. As if the Irish Catholics were any more slighted or better than others. The Irish were pretty good slave traders post Roman era. They loved to raid our Strathclyde British ancestors of their loved ones and enslave them on their lands or sell them to the highest bidders overseas. The Irish Catholics Lords were just as quick to sell their poor as the English Protestant Lords. From the Vikings to the Normans to the French and just about every other European kingdom did the same. It was a time of uncontrolled elites running anywhere and grabbing anyone their could overpower to make them do their will or make a profit from them - including those on their own estates. Not all were the same, but the Africans and the Irish did not have a monopoly on this. Talk to a lot of other indigenous populations around the world. I think it better to ignore those who try to exploit our dark times for political purposes. I have many Irish Catholic ancestors and I think I honour them better by working to ensure that this is ended and does not happen again to all of God's children - whether they are Saqaliba, Dalits, Irish, African, or whoever. Stirring up ethnic populations with a surgical and biased view of ones own history does not help anything! This is an easy thing to get caught up in. Let's not. Peter -----Original Message----- From: Don W Kincaid Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 7:50 PM To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Subject: [KINCAID] Irish Slaves I just finished reading about a sad bad time in history. A surname newsletter mentioned it and provided a link to it. The rounding up and selling of Irish citizens reduced the population of Ireland dramatically. For those whose lineage comes through Ireland, slavery could be a big detriment to finding records of ancestors. None of the history courses I had in school or university ever mentioned the Irish Slave Trade so it may be news to some of you as well. Don The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children. Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives. We don’t really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? We know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade. But, are we talking about African slavery? King James II and Charles I also led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor. The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves. Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white. >From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well. During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers. Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle. As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts. African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African. The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude. In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves. This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company. England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat. There is little question that the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is, also, very little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry. In 1839, Britain finally decided on it’s own to end it’s participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded THIS chapter of nightmarish Irish misery. But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong. Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories. But, where are our public (and PRIVATE) schools???? Where are the history books? Why is it so seldom discussed? Do the memories of hundreds of thousands of Irish victims merit more than a mention from an unknown writer? Or is their story to be one that their English pirates intended: To (unlike the African book) have the Irish story utterly and completely disappear as if it never happened. None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot. For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: www.kincaiddna.org ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you, Don for providing this information. How terrible. "Indentured", yes, I'm sure we all are aware of that, but actual slavery......horrible. Claire KinKaid On 2/25/2014 5:50 PM, Don W Kincaid wrote: > I just finished reading about a sad bad time in history. A surname newsletter mentioned it and provided a link to it. The rounding up and selling of Irish citizens reduced the population of Ireland dramatically. For those whose lineage comes through Ireland, slavery could be a big detriment to finding records of ancestors. None of the history courses I had in school or university ever mentioned the Irish Slave Trade so it may be news to some of you as well. Don > > The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves > They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children. > > Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives. > > We don’t really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? We know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade. > > But, are we talking about African slavery? King James II and Charles I also led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor. > > The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves. > > Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white. > > From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well. > > During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers. > > Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle. > > As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts. > > African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African. The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude. > > In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves. This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company. > > England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia. There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat. > > There is little question that the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is, also, very little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry. In 1839, Britain finally decided on it’s own to end it’s participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded THIS chapter of nightmarish Irish misery. > > But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong. > > Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories. > > But, where are our public (and PRIVATE) schools???? Where are the history books? Why is it so seldom discussed? > > Do the memories of hundreds of thousands of Irish victims merit more than a mention from an unknown writer? > > Or is their story to be one that their English pirates intended: To (unlike the African book) have the Irish story utterly and completely disappear as if it never happened. > > None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot. > > For complete information about the Kincaid of all spellings DNA project, including a chart, lineages, and how to participate, go to: > > www.kincaiddna.org > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message