Thanks. This explains your research better. If you do plan on further research, I suspect that there is some tidbit abour Mordecai's death. Train accidents tend to get some comment in papers - even those far away. Best wishes! Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: lewisjo@junct.com To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Amended Post - Vetting #129770 to Mathew Kincade >Peter, Norman, Sue: Is this what was needed? > > Robert Riley Kincade #129770 Participant > (Testing in Progress) > Researcher: Kelly Kincade-Lewis, dau of Robert R. Kincade > > Vetting Robert Riley Kincade to Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > _________________________________________________________________ > Robert Riley Kincade b. Muskogee, OK 7/13/1931 > > Son of: Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay > > Proven by: > 1931 OK Birth Cert. for Robert Riley Kincade naming his parents > as Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay. > > Personal Knowledge: Robert knew his father and was acknowledge by > family as Robert Seth Kincade's son. > __________________________________________________________________ > Robert Seth Kincade b.Ellis Co.OK 4/29/1905 d.Springfield,MO 2/1970 > > Son of: John Albert Kincade and Flora A. Dilley m. 2/18/1891 > > Proven by: > Social Security Death Index Record; stating his date of birth as > 4/29/1905, stating place of birth as OK, and stating place of death > as Springfield, MO Feb 1970. > > US Marine Corp Muster Rolls 1798-1940; Personal records ordered from > the Nat'l Archives stating his date of birth as 4/29/1905, stating his > birth as Arnett, Ellis Co. OK, stating parents as John A. Kincade & Flora > A. Dilley. > > 1910 US Fed Census Records; OK, Harper, Twn of Haskell, family listed as: > J.A.Kincade - head- 39 - m 2 b.MO > Bulah G. Kincade - wife - (stepmom) 20 m 1 b.IA > Ross Kincade - son 10 b.MO > Louise Kincade - dau 7 b.MO > Robert Kincade - son 5 b.OK > Coda Kincade - dau 10/12 b.OK (should be Cleta) > > 1920 US Fed Census Records; MO, Greene, Twn of Springfield Ward 5,family > as: > John A. Kincaid - head 39 b.MO > Beulah Kincaid - wife 30 b.IA > Louise Kincaid -dau 17 b.MO > Robert Kincaid - son 14 b.OK > Cleda Kincaid - dau 10 b. MO > Ivan Kincaid - son 7 4/12 b.OK > Cora Kincaid - dau 1 4/12 b.MO > > Personal knowledge; Robert Seth knew his father and was accepted by family > and friends as John Albert Kincade's son. > __________________________________________________________________________ > John Albert Kincade b.Chillicothe, Livingston Co,MO 7/18/1870 d.1/12/1960 > Springfield,Greene Co., MO > > Son of: Mordecai Kincade & Martha Jane Bailey (Bates) > > Proven by: > Marriage Cert. from Day Co.(now Ellis Co.) OK, dated 12/9/1907, listing > his parents as Mortica Kincade and Martha J. Bates. > > Bias Magazine:Vol 4 -#11, dated 7/21/1953; Personal Biography (Citizen > of the Week Article) of John Albert Kincade, stating his parents as > Mordecai > and Martha Jane Kincade of Chillicothe, MO. As reported by Jim Billings, > Bias Magazine Reporter. > > Personal Knowledge; Robert Riley Kincade & Robert Seth Kincade knew John > Albert Kincade as Robert Seth's father, and Robert Riley's grandfather. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Mordecai Kincade b.IN abt 1844 d.Chillicothe,MO 1872 > > Son of: Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > > Proven by: > 1850 US Census, IN, Marion Co, Twn Lawrence, family as listed: > Mathew Kingkale no age b.VA Male > Elizabeth Kingkade 34 b.IN Female (KY?) > Calvin Kingkade 9 b.IN Male > Sally Kingkade 8 b.IN Female > Mordeca Kingkade 5 b.IN Male > Thomas Kingkade 3 b.IN Male > Francis Kingkade 5/12 b.IN Male > > 1856 State of IA Census, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > Mathew Kincade 48 b.VA Male > Elizabeth Kincade 43 b.KY Female > Calvin Kincade 16 b.IN Male > Saras S Kincade 14 b.IN Female > Mordica Kincade 12 b.IN Male > Thomas Kincade 8 b.IN Male > Frances Kincade 4 b.IN Female (should be Male) > Hannah J Kincade 3 b.IN Female > James Kincade 1 b.IN Male > Alexander Terrel 20 b.OH Male > > 1860 US Census, IA, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > Mathew Kincaid 53 Male b.VA > Elizabeth Kincaid 47 Female b.KY > Mordica Kincaid 16 Male b.IN > Thomas Kincaid 12 Male b.IN > Frances Kincaid 13 Male b.IN > Hannah J Kincaid 8 Female b.IN > James Kincaid 5 Male b.IN > Lovina Kincaid 2 Female b.IA > ______________________________________________________________________ > I haven't found a death cert. for Mordecai Kincade, but I did find one > for his brother Calvin, who is listed on the above 1850 Fed & 1856 IA > State census records. His birth is listed as 7/27/1839, place of birth > is listed as Indiana, date of death is 2/1/1928 (88yrs, 6mo, 5 days) in > the city of Trenton, Co. of Grundy, MO. buried in N.Evans Cemetary, > Trenton, Mo on Feb 2 1928. I found this info on the State of MO's Digital > Heritage Web Site. It is also filed in Grundy County Mo (1928). It lists > his parents as Mathew Kincade b.VA and Elizabeth Humble b.NY. Calvin is > also located on the IA 1860 Fed Census in the same county-Wayne, > twn-Benton and Post Office-Corydon, as the rest of his family, but listed > separately, with his wife: > Calvin Kincaid 20 b.IN > Tlitha Kincaid 18 b.VA > > Also located on the MO Digital Heritage web site, is the service records > for the men of the Civil War, with Mordecai & his brother Calvin listed; > Secretary of State, Missouri Digital Heritage Collection; Missouri > State Archives; Soliders Records: War of 1812-WW 1; Office of Adjutant > General, Box 47, Reel s780: > > Mordecai Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > Spickard, Enrolled:July 12,1862 Where:Chillicothe,MO Ordered into active > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(152 days) Ordered > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (27 days), > Number > days actual service:179, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #611 > > Calvin Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > Sprickard, Enrolled:July12,1862, Where:Chillicothe,MO, Ordered into active > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(206 days) Ordered > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (10 days), > Number > days actual service:216, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #610 > > *I noticed that they joined the same date, served the same time, yet > Mordecai was not credited with as many service days as Calvin. Both Calvin > and Mordecai left the Enrolled Missouri Militia to serve with Prov't > Missouri Militia for a battle out of state, then resumed their duties with > the regualar Missouri Militia until 1864. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Mathew Kincade b.VA abt 1807/1808 d. aft 1860 > > Son of: Unknown > I have not found any absolute proof of Mathew's father or mother. > > Leslie McConachie, who has been noted as an organized and reliable Kincaid > researcher, has listed Mathew's father as Francis Kincade b.1770/1779 > d.1830, a brother named James b.1799, and a brother named Washington > b.1816 > d. aft 1880. > > Mathew does not show up in any census records after 1860. His children for > the most part, moved to northwest MO, and do show up in census records in > Grundy, Caldwell and Livingston Counties. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Additional Resources: > Book titled: "A.W. Kincade", written by James H. Thomas, American Studies, > Wichita State University, 1984. The author sites the following sources: > Jim Billings, "Citizen of the Week", Bias Magazine, 21 July 1953, pp > 20-21; > Alice Moer, ed., Our Ellis County Heritage (Shattuck, OK: Ellis Co. > Historical Society, 1974), p.8 ; O.H. Richards, "Early Days in Day > County", > The Chronicles of Oklahoma, Autumn 1948, pp. 320-323 ; Ada Kincade Lane, > interview; "Obituary", Arnett Leader, 14 Dec 1906.; Dille, The Dille > Family, p 12-13. Book Topic: Mordecai's grandson, Author W. Kincade. > _______________________________________________________________________ > Amendment: > Additional Information: As to clarify the link between Calvin Kincade and > Mordecai Kincade > > > The 1850 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1856 Iowa State Census states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1860 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, > the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > > Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 Fed > Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this > family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family > unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. > > In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife > Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > > On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, > the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's > listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out > of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as > joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > > All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge > of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John > was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John > was 2 in a rail road accident) > John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census > for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new > husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > > Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his > wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death > certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew > Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York

>Peter, Yes, thank you, I do have that already. Beulah was my great grandfather's second wife. I didn't want to add too much info to the vetting post, as to confuse others about family tree extensions. As far as Arthur goes, he kept a diary, he thought highly of himself. He was my great grandfather's oldest son, my grandfather, Robert Seth Kincade, was the baby of the family with John's first wife Flora A. Dilley. There is a lot of information on Arthur W. Kincade at Wichita State University's Special Collections Dept. of their Library. I need to go there, and go through all the boxes of his personal letters, correspondence, and bank notes that he left for the University. WSU also owns his residence, which was built by Frank Lloyd Wright. I mentioned the book on A.W. Kincade in my vetting post down at the bottom as an additional resource. There wasn't anything in the book that I didn't already know, but at least it is in print for others to see. What I did learn out of the book, was Arthur's grand children's names, and I have been in touch with them. They don't know where the family tree is, but did hear the same story I did about Arthur hiring a researcher. It's a shame, no one knows where that tree is. My father said, that Arthur told him "to deal with the future and not to worry about the past, that it wasn't good to dwell on things you couldn't fix". To me, it sounds like there was something there he didn't want the rest of the family to find out about. But it sure has my curiosity at an all time high! Kelly Kincade-Lewis You can add this to any future vetting posts of yours: > > "Springfield News-Leader, Wednesday, 27 September 1961 >> Mrs. Beulah Grace Kincade, 72, of 2012 North National, died at 5 am >> today >> at Burge Protestant Hospital, where she had been a patient two weeks. >> She >> was the widow of John A Kincade, who died in 1959 <sic>. They had >> operated the Kincade Wallpaper Company. >> Mrs. Kincade was a resident of Springfield 50 years, moving here from >> Arnett, Oklahoma. She was a member of the Church of God. >> Survivors include a son, C. I. Kincade, 1256 S. Florence; two >> daughters, Miss Cleda Kincade and Mrs. Cora M. Hessee, both of 1028 1/2 >> E. >> Commercial; tghree stepsons Robert Kincade, 1007 North Jefferson, Ross >> <last name not listed>, Oklahoma City, and Arthur Kincade, Wichita; >> three >> stepdaughters, Mrs. Fay Shelton, Arnett, Okla; Mrs. Ada Lane Pampa, Tx, >> and Mrs. Louise Hickman, Dallas, Tx; a brother Charles Daykin, >> Hoisington, >> Kan, and three sisters, Mrs. Mabel Dodsworth, 2012 North National, Mrs. >> Katherine Henry of the state of California, and Mrs. Hannah Hayes, >> Hoisington, KS. >> Ralph Thieme is in charge of arrangements." > > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/KINCAID/1998-08/0902152312 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter A. Kincaid > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:14 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Amended Post - Vetting #129770 to Mathew Kincade > > > Now I am quite sure there was something on this Arthur Warren > Kincaid somewhere (an old letter or something). I see he was > in Who's Who in America. Got me curious where I saw things. > > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lewisjo@junct.com > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:07 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Amended Post - Vetting #129770 to Mathew > Kincade > > > > Peter, > Thank you. I have tried to find info on his death, but have been > unsuccessful. My sister wondered if someone "pushed" him in front of > an > oncoming train, being as his wife remarried quickly to a man also > employed > by the rail road company. But seriously, if I had the means, I would > go to > Chillicothe and research this myself. At present, I'm not in the > physical > position to do any traveling. I had a great uncle, named Arthur Warren > Kincade, who was the President of the Fourth National Bank in Wichita, > Kansas for decades, and I understood that he had hired a genealogist > to > research our line of Kincades, but to this date, I have not been able > to > track down a single word of truth to that statement. > Kelly Kincade-Lewis > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The 1813 - 1835 refers to the dates for all the cases indexed in the website so the 2 cases referred to could be any year from 1812 to 1836. I hope we have someone on the Kincaid list that lives near New Orleans who can check these 2 court cases and report what they find. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter A. Kincaid To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Chief of Kincaid was Re: James Kincaid of Washington,DC--1825 I think your court case could be relevant. James' older brother George was a sugar refiner. His company was called George Kincaid & Company. He died in 1820. I am not sure what his partnership then became known as. Perhaps the 1835 later date is simply that the case continued to then. Thanks Don! Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Chief of Kincaid was Re: James Kincaid of Washington,DC--1825 It looks like the website I got the info on George Kincaid/Johanna M. Baldwin was in error on them being in New Orleans so ignore that part of my last post. It seems there was a George Kincaid in New Orleans sometime between 1813 and 1835 since George Kincaid & Company were Plaintiffs in a case in the 1st Judicial Court, Orleans Parish 1813-1835 Docket # 8907. Also in same time period, Banks, Miller and Kincaid were defendants, docket 7095. Of interest in doing the search for descendants of James Kincaid of Georgetown, I ran across a book N.H. The Lost Arrowhead in True Stories of West Texas which has info on a George and William Kincaid so look forward to finding and reading it. Don To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I wanted to address you second question in a separate post. This is a detailed post which hopefully will be read fully to understand to point being made. Let me be clear of a technicality with the concept of becoming Chief of Kincaid. The government did not formerlly specifically state who is Chief of Kincaid. This was done by the former Chief and/or the derbfine. However, in 1960 it was held in a court case that the sovereign had final say (Lord Spens case). Alwyne pursued to become entitled to bear the coat of arms of John Kincaid of Kincaid, who matriculated on 29 July 1808, and designation of Kincaid of Kincaid. He was granted this petition. As John was in possession of the ancestral lands of Kincaid and was designated the Laird of Kincaid, the implication is that Alwyne was the best person entitled to be designated Chief of Kincaid - being nearest in blood. In more modern history, when clans got in dispute as to who has the right to be Chief they look to who has the legal right to bear the coat of arms of the person last recognized as Chief. It is interesting to note that while Alwyne was not specifically recognized as Chief of the Kincaid clan, nor representer of the baronial house and family of Kincaid of Kincaid, he was referred to as Chief of the name - apparently a soft recognition of sorts given the precedent decision that year. Let me highlight that this is a reference to Chief of the Name rather than Chief of the Clan. However, the whole process really was a bit of a farce and has become even more so (a case where rules will be bent for those who pay). Let me start with John's GRANT of a coat of arms. It simply read: Kincaid John, of Kincaid in the County of Sterling Esquire Bears Gules a fess Ermine between two Mullets in Chief Or and a triple towered Castle in Base Argent masoned Sable, which last the Family have been in use to carry in their Shields from an Honourable exploit of one of their ancestors in recovering the Castle of Edinburgh from the English in the time of Edward the first, in consequence of which he was made Constable of the Castle and his posterity enjoyed that office for many years. Crest, a triple towered Castle Argent masoned Sable and issuing therefrom a dexter arms from the shoulder embowed, vested in tartan and grasping a drawn broadsword all proper. Motto, This I'll defend. Supporters, Two Highlanders dressed in the highland garb and armed with steel Cuirasses each holding a Lochaber Ax all proper. There is nothing there to say he was Chief of Kincaid or representer of a baronial house of Kincaid. It was simply a grant of a coat of arms. His son, John Lennox Kincaid Lennox, then went on and matriculated a new coat of arms - being the impaled coat of arms of John Kincaid above and Lennox of Woodhead. This matriculation, dated 12 June 1833, clearly states that he was the legal representer of both families and John Kincaid's heir male. It also specifically stated that his father's supporters were confined to the HEIRS MALE of his father. Then we fast forward to 30 March 1960 when Alwyne matriculated his coat of arms - succeeding to John's 1808 grant. At that time, Alwyne was clearly not nearest in blood to 1808 John. Alwyne was the baby of the family. He had one older living brother, William Mandeville Peareth Kincaid Lennox, and three sisters (albeit two of then were at that time deceased). At that time, Scottish succession preferred males to female. A daughter only could succeed if she had no brothers with heirs. Since William was considered heir of line of the Lennox of Woodhead estate then he let Alwyne succeed to the Kincaid arms. William actually had a hyphenated name (Kincaid-Lennox) which barred him from succeeding until he changed his name. Alwyne had no issue so ultimately these coat of arms went to William's only child, Heather, who became Heather Veronica Kincaid of Kincaid. Now, aside from this succession quirk, adding to the farce of it all is what was done for Alwyne's matriculation. What they first did was strike down John Lennox Kincaid Lennox's 1833 matriculation which had the heir male clause. The Lord Lyon declared in Alwyne's matriculation that: "THAT the matriculation and Letters Patent of 12 June 1833 in name of John Lennox Kincaid Lennox of Woodhead and Kincaid was not a proper implementation of the entails of the estates of Woodhead or Kincaid, and that the Patentee was thereunder neither Representer of Lennox of Woodhead nor Representer of Kincaid of Kincaid;" This begs one to ask how it could be that John Lennox Kincaid Lennox was not the representer of Kincaid of Kincaid but his junior descendant could be? The Lord Lyon then declares that Alwyne could bear the supporters because there is no record of an entail for them on record. There was actually an entail on record - the matriculation of John Lennox Kincaid Lennox which he just voided. The next farce was how they got around the issue with Alwyne not being nearest in blood. They declared him nearest in blood 'bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid' and stated that that the arms were to descend to his heirs male bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid whom failing to any younger son of Denis Peareth Hornell Lennox (Heather's son), whom failing to the heirs whomsoever next in blood of the last heir of his coat of arms bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid. So, from then on, key to the succession would be not seniority but who bears the name Kincaid of Kincaid. This was important because the family were also heirs of the Lennoxes of Woodhead who were considered Chiefs of Clan Lennox. They prefer the Lennox title so the senior family member would have to be called Lennox and would not bear the name Kincaid of Kincaid. So when Alwyne died in 1987 Heather's son, Dennis had only one son. There was no younger son to assume the Kincaid of Kincaid name and the oldest was to be the Lennox heir. Heather was allowed to matriculate on the condition that she would later defer if another son was born. Another was not. Dennis died in 1990 removing that possibility. Hence the heir whomsoever applies. Under the old laws this would have been his Dennis' son Edward. We then get the further twist in that while Heather's matriculation was subject to conditions it did give any further conditions who was to succeed. So when Arabella was granted her matriculation they took the further step of giving it to her because Heather granted to her; specifically saying "THAT by Deed of Nomination of date 29 July 1999 the Petitioner's said grandmother did nominate the Petitioner to be Heir Presumptive of Tailzie in the undifferenced Arms of Kincaid of Kincaid." Regardless of these matriculations the Government has struck down the old laws of succession whereby son are given seniority in succession to daughters. The oldest now having the right. Hence things are now even more complicated by the fact that Heather has priority over her brother Edward. So when Don asks about lineage papers that Alwyne had to file my response is that do you really think, given what I outlined about happened, there was too strict consideration given to this. I suggest that if a person wanted to put up the large sums of money to get a matriculation, and there was no opposition, then things would be manipulated to conform to the payess wishes. I don't see anything here that really follows the spirit of traditional clan laws of succession - except perhaps Heather's deed of nomination - nor traditional legal laws of succession. This appears to be simply a case where we have a Kincaid Chief because the Crown recognized them as entitled to the coat of arms of John Kincaid of Kincaid, granted in 1808, when they went through the time and expense to get the recognition. In terms of official recognition, I find it curious that the matriculations do not have specific wording to the effect (ie. we officially recognize) but a more softer recognition by how they are styled. Heather and Arabella were both styled "Representer of the Baronial House of Kincaid of Kincaid, Chief of the Name and Arms of Kincaid" I should note that Olivia Brisbin was frequently in touch with Alwyne at the time he was getting his matriculation. It is clear from his letters that he did not know much about his lineage. He cites his uncle as the genealogist and notes that all he had was his two journals. His uncle clearly spent a lot of time researching records to reconstruct in order to reconstruct his lineages (Lennox, Kincaid, etc.). There was very little known about the Kincaid line prior to the 1808 John Kincaid of Kincaid who married Cecilia Lennox. I have great concerns about how Alwyne and his successors came to become entitled to bear the 'undifferenced arms' of Kincaid of Kincaid and be recognized as Kincaid of Kincaid, Chief of the Name. I say this because of the above and because there are too many unanswered questions - not the least of which there is evidence that the 1833 John Lennox Kincaid Lennox had a brother William. Best wishes! Peter A. Kincaid Fredericton, NB, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: Kincaid Rootsweb List Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid of Washington, DC--1825 Peter, Thanks for correcting the typo! Also in further searching the Kincaid Archives, I found another post by you that gave the names of James Kincaid's sons as James and John and that they both died in New Orleans but have not been able to find them in any records there so far. When Alwyn Kincaid pursued becoming Chief of Kincaid, I assume he had to file a lot of lineage papers. Do you or anyone have access to these?

> Peter, Thank you. I have tried to find info on his death, but have been unsuccessful. My sister wondered if someone "pushed" him in front of an oncoming train, being as his wife remarried quickly to a man also employed by the rail road company. But seriously, if I had the means, I would go to Chillicothe and research this myself. At present, I'm not in the physical position to do any traveling. I had a great uncle, named Arthur Warren Kincade, who was the President of the Fourth National Bank in Wichita, Kansas for decades, and I understood that he had hired a genealogist to research our line of Kincades, but to this date, I have not been able to track down a single word of truth to that statement. Kelly Kincade-Lewis Thanks. This explains your research better. If you > do plan on further research, I suspect that there > is some tidbit abour Mordecai's death. Train > accidents tend to get some comment in papers - > even those far away. > > Best wishes! > > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lewisjo@junct.com > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 3:50 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Amended Post - Vetting #129770 to Mathew Kincade > > > >Peter, Norman, Sue: > Is this what was needed? > > > > > > > Robert Riley Kincade #129770 Participant > > (Testing in Progress) > > Researcher: Kelly Kincade-Lewis, dau of Robert R. Kincade > > > > Vetting Robert Riley Kincade to Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Robert Riley Kincade b. Muskogee, OK 7/13/1931 > > > > Son of: Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay > > > > Proven by: > > 1931 OK Birth Cert. for Robert Riley Kincade naming his parents > > as Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay. > > > > Personal Knowledge: Robert knew his father and was acknowledge by > > family as Robert Seth Kincade's son. > > __________________________________________________________________ > > Robert Seth Kincade b.Ellis Co.OK 4/29/1905 d.Springfield,MO 2/1970 > > > > Son of: John Albert Kincade and Flora A. Dilley m. 2/18/1891 > > > > Proven by: > > Social Security Death Index Record; stating his date of birth as > > 4/29/1905, stating place of birth as OK, and stating place of death > > as Springfield, MO Feb 1970. > > > > US Marine Corp Muster Rolls 1798-1940; Personal records ordered from > > the Nat'l Archives stating his date of birth as 4/29/1905, stating his > > birth as Arnett, Ellis Co. OK, stating parents as John A. Kincade & > Flora > > A. Dilley. > > > > 1910 US Fed Census Records; OK, Harper, Twn of Haskell, family listed > as: > > J.A.Kincade - head- 39 - m 2 b.MO > > Bulah G. Kincade - wife - (stepmom) 20 m 1 b.IA > > Ross Kincade - son 10 b.MO > > Louise Kincade - dau 7 b.MO > > Robert Kincade - son 5 b.OK > > Coda Kincade - dau 10/12 b.OK (should be Cleta) > > > > 1920 US Fed Census Records; MO, Greene, Twn of Springfield Ward > 5,family > > as: > > John A. Kincaid - head 39 b.MO > > Beulah Kincaid - wife 30 b.IA > > Louise Kincaid -dau 17 b.MO > > Robert Kincaid - son 14 b.OK > > Cleda Kincaid - dau 10 b. MO > > Ivan Kincaid - son 7 4/12 b.OK > > Cora Kincaid - dau 1 4/12 b.MO > > > > Personal knowledge; Robert Seth knew his father and was accepted by > family > > and friends as John Albert Kincade's son. > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > John Albert Kincade b.Chillicothe, Livingston Co,MO 7/18/1870 > d.1/12/1960 > > Springfield,Greene Co., MO > > > > Son of: Mordecai Kincade & Martha Jane Bailey (Bates) > > > > Proven by: > > Marriage Cert. from Day Co.(now Ellis Co.) OK, dated 12/9/1907, > listing > > his parents as Mortica Kincade and Martha J. Bates. > > > > Bias Magazine:Vol 4 -#11, dated 7/21/1953; Personal Biography (Citizen > > of the Week Article) of John Albert Kincade, stating his parents as > > Mordecai > > and Martha Jane Kincade of Chillicothe, MO. As reported by Jim > Billings, > > Bias Magazine Reporter. > > > > Personal Knowledge; Robert Riley Kincade & Robert Seth Kincade knew > John > > Albert Kincade as Robert Seth's father, and Robert Riley's > grandfather. > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > Mordecai Kincade b.IN abt 1844 d.Chillicothe,MO 1872 > > > > Son of: Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > > > > Proven by: > > 1850 US Census, IN, Marion Co, Twn Lawrence, family as listed: > > Mathew Kingkale no age b.VA Male > > Elizabeth Kingkade 34 b.IN Female (KY?) > > Calvin Kingkade 9 b.IN Male > > Sally Kingkade 8 b.IN Female > > Mordeca Kingkade 5 b.IN Male > > Thomas Kingkade 3 b.IN Male > > Francis Kingkade 5/12 b.IN Male > > > > 1856 State of IA Census, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > > Mathew Kincade 48 b.VA Male > > Elizabeth Kincade 43 b.KY Female > > Calvin Kincade 16 b.IN Male > > Saras S Kincade 14 b.IN Female > > Mordica Kincade 12 b.IN Male > > Thomas Kincade 8 b.IN Male > > Frances Kincade 4 b.IN Female (should be Male) > > Hannah J Kincade 3 b.IN Female > > James Kincade 1 b.IN Male > > Alexander Terrel 20 b.OH Male > > > > 1860 US Census, IA, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > > Mathew Kincaid 53 Male b.VA > > Elizabeth Kincaid 47 Female b.KY > > Mordica Kincaid 16 Male b.IN > > Thomas Kincaid 12 Male b.IN > > Frances Kincaid 13 Male b.IN > > Hannah J Kincaid 8 Female b.IN > > James Kincaid 5 Male b.IN > > Lovina Kincaid 2 Female b.IA > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > I haven't found a death cert. for Mordecai Kincade, but I did find one > > for his brother Calvin, who is listed on the above 1850 Fed & 1856 IA > > State census records. His birth is listed as 7/27/1839, place of birth > > is listed as Indiana, date of death is 2/1/1928 (88yrs, 6mo, 5 days) > in > > the city of Trenton, Co. of Grundy, MO. buried in N.Evans Cemetary, > > Trenton, Mo on Feb 2 1928. I found this info on the State of MO's > Digital > > Heritage Web Site. It is also filed in Grundy County Mo (1928). It > lists > > his parents as Mathew Kincade b.VA and Elizabeth Humble b.NY. Calvin > is > > also located on the IA 1860 Fed Census in the same county-Wayne, > > twn-Benton and Post Office-Corydon, as the rest of his family, but > listed > > separately, with his wife: > > Calvin Kincaid 20 b.IN > > Tlitha Kincaid 18 b.VA > > > > Also located on the MO Digital Heritage web site, is the service > records > > for the men of the Civil War, with Mordecai & his brother Calvin > listed; > > Secretary of State, Missouri Digital Heritage Collection; Missouri > > State Archives; Soliders Records: War of 1812-WW 1; Office of Adjutant > > General, Box 47, Reel s780: > > > > Mordecai Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > > Spickard, Enrolled:July 12,1862 Where:Chillicothe,MO Ordered into > active > > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(152 days) > Ordered > > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (27 days), > > Number > > days actual service:179, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #611 > > > > Calvin Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > > Sprickard, Enrolled:July12,1862, Where:Chillicothe,MO, Ordered into > active > > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(206 days) Ordered > > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (10 days), > > Number > > days actual service:216, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #610 > > > > *I noticed that they joined the same date, served the same time, yet > > Mordecai was not credited with as many service days as Calvin. Both > Calvin > > and Mordecai left the Enrolled Missouri Militia to serve with Prov't > > Missouri Militia for a battle out of state, then resumed their duties > with > > the regualar Missouri Militia until 1864. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Mathew Kincade b.VA abt 1807/1808 d. aft 1860 > > > > Son of: Unknown > > I have not found any absolute proof of Mathew's father or mother. > > > > Leslie McConachie, who has been noted as an organized and reliable > Kincaid > > researcher, has listed Mathew's father as Francis Kincade b.1770/1779 > > d.1830, a brother named James b.1799, and a brother named Washington > > b.1816 > > d. aft 1880. > > > > Mathew does not show up in any census records after 1860. His children > for > > the most part, moved to northwest MO, and do show up in census records > in > > Grundy, Caldwell and Livingston Counties. > > _________________________________________________________________________ > > Additional Resources: > > Book titled: "A.W. Kincade", written by James H. Thomas, American > Studies, > > Wichita State University, 1984. The author sites the following > sources: > > Jim Billings, "Citizen of the Week", Bias Magazine, 21 July 1953, pp > > 20-21; > > Alice Moer, ed., Our Ellis County Heritage (Shattuck, OK: Ellis Co. > > Historical Society, 1974), p.8 ; O.H. Richards, "Early Days in Day > > County", > > The Chronicles of Oklahoma, Autumn 1948, pp. 320-323 ; Ada Kincade > Lane, > > interview; "Obituary", Arnett Leader, 14 Dec 1906.; Dille, The Dille > > Family, p 12-13. Book Topic: Mordecai's grandson, Author W. Kincade. > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > Amendment: > > Additional Information: As to clarify the link between Calvin Kincade > and > > Mordecai Kincade > > > > > > The 1850 Fed Census Record states: > > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > > > The 1856 Iowa State Census states: > > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > > > The 1860 Fed Census Record states: > > Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, > > the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > > > > Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 > Fed > > Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from > this > > family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own > family > > unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony > Nida. > > > > In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his > wife > > Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > > > > On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection > website, > > the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's > > listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, > out > > of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed > as > > joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > > > > All of the above information corresponds with our known family > knowledge > > of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather > John > > was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when > John > > was 2 in a rail road accident) > > John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed > Census > > for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new > > husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > > > > Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his > > wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death > > certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as > Mathew > > Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The names of the sons and their place of death is what Heather Veronica Kincaid of Kincaid had on her family chart. The finding aid for the Lennox of Woodhead estate papers has a family tree and gives their names as John and George. Hence there is a conflict. However, there is a known error on the Lennox of Woodhead tree so I tend to give more weight to Heather's chart. I think Heather's chart was constructed by her great uncle, John Lennox Peareth, with possible additions by her uncle Alwyne Cecil Peareth (later Alwyne Cecil Kincaid of Kincaid) and his cousin. The early years is clearly based on public and estate records - possibly some from Dr. H.C. Kincaid's work. Best wishes! Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: Kincaid Rootsweb List Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid of Washington, DC--1825 Peter, Thanks for correcting the typo! Also in further searching the Kincaid Archives, I found another post by you that gave the names of James Kincaid's sons as James and John and that they both died in New Orleans but have not been able to find them in any records there so far. When Alwyn Kincaid pursued becoming Chief of Kincaid, I assume he had to file a lot of lineage papers. Do you or anyone have access to these? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter A. Kincaid To: Don W. Kincaid Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid and John Murdock of Washington, DC--1820 Yikes. You seem to have found a typo error on my part. The reference you cite should have the year 1825 and not 1835. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: Peter A. Kincaid ; kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid and John Murdock of Washington, DC--1820 Peter, In searching I found an old post by you Subject: Kincaid estate papers inventory Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:10:12 -0300 in which you had this as one of the inventoried papers: T-LX/10/11 George Kincaid's executry (d.1820). Correspondence and legal papers, including two letters from his brother James in Georgetown, District of Columbia (1835). 1799-1840. 1 bundle. Do you have access to these 2 letters mentioned and if so do they mention his children? Thanks mighty much! Don To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It looks like the website I got the info on George Kincaid/Johanna M. Baldwin was in error on them being in New Orleans so ignore that part of my last post. It seems there was a George Kincaid in New Orleans sometime between 1813 and 1835 since George Kincaid & Company were Plaintiffs in a case in the 1st Judicial Court, Orleans Parish 1813-1835 Docket # 8907. Also in same time period, Banks, Miller and Kincaid were defendants, docket 7095. Of interest in doing the search for descendants of James Kincaid of Georgetown, I ran across a book N.H. The Lost Arrowhead in True Stories of West Texas which has info on a George and William Kincaid so look forward to finding and reading it. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Chief of Kincaid was Re: James Kincaid of Washington,DC--1825 Thanks Peter for all the great info on Kincaid titles. I added George as possible son of James Kincaid of Georgetown and in a search I found this listing and wonder how this fellow fits into the Kincaid/Lennox lineage picture. 124. George Kincaid Lennox - International Genealogical Index / AS Gender: Male Birth: 23 NOV 1870 Mooltan, , West Bengal, India The listing came from http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ancestorsearchresults.asp?standardize=N&last_name=Lennox I see a George Kincaid in New Orleans in the Baldwin lineage info whose dates are about right so will check a little more on him. Johannah Morris Baldwin: Abt. 1784d: Bef. 1869 .+George Kincaid Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter A. Kincaid To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Chief of Kincaid was Re: James Kincaid of Washington,DC--1825 I wanted to address you second question in a separate post. This is a detailed post which hopefully will be read fully to understand to point being made. Let me be clear of a technicality with the concept of becoming Chief of Kincaid. The government did not formerlly specifically state who is Chief of Kincaid. This was done by the former Chief and/or the derbfine. However, in 1960 it was held in a court case that the sovereign had final say (Lord Spens case). Alwyne pursued to become entitled to bear the coat of arms of John Kincaid of Kincaid, who matriculated on 29 July 1808, and designation of Kincaid of Kincaid. He was granted this petition. As John was in possession of the ancestral lands of Kincaid and was designated the Laird of Kincaid, the implication is that Alwyne was the best person entitled to be designated Chief of Kincaid - being nearest in blood. In more modern history, when clans got in dispute as to who has the right to be Chief they look to who has the legal right to bear the coat of arms of the person last recognized as Chief. It is interesting to note that while Alwyne was not specifically recognized as Chief of the Kincaid clan, nor representer of the baronial house and family of Kincaid of Kincaid, he was referred to as Chief of the name - apparently a soft recognition of sorts given the precedent decision that year. Let me highlight that this is a reference to Chief of the Name rather than Chief of the Clan. However, the whole process really was a bit of a farce and has become even more so (a case where rules will be bent for those who pay). Let me start with John's GRANT of a coat of arms. It simply read: Kincaid John, of Kincaid in the County of Sterling Esquire Bears Gules a fess Ermine between two Mullets in Chief Or and a triple towered Castle in Base Argent masoned Sable, which last the Family have been in use to carry in their Shields from an Honourable exploit of one of their ancestors in recovering the Castle of Edinburgh from the English in the time of Edward the first, in consequence of which he was made Constable of the Castle and his posterity enjoyed that office for many years. Crest, a triple towered Castle Argent masoned Sable and issuing therefrom a dexter arms from the shoulder embowed, vested in tartan and grasping a drawn broadsword all proper. Motto, This I'll defend. Supporters, Two Highlanders dressed in the highland garb and armed with steel Cuirasses each holding a Lochaber Ax all proper. There is nothing there to say he was Chief of Kincaid or representer of a baronial house of Kincaid. It was simply a grant of a coat of arms. His son, John Lennox Kincaid Lennox, then went on and matriculated a new coat of arms - being the impaled coat of arms of John Kincaid above and Lennox of Woodhead. This matriculation, dated 12 June 1833, clearly states that he was the legal representer of both families and John Kincaid's heir male. It also specifically stated that his father's supporters were confined to the HEIRS MALE of his father. Then we fast forward to 30 March 1960 when Alwyne matriculated his coat of arms - succeeding to John's 1808 grant. At that time, Alwyne was clearly not nearest in blood to 1808 John. Alwyne was the baby of the family. He had one older living brother, William Mandeville Peareth Kincaid Lennox, and three sisters (albeit two of then were at that time deceased). At that time, Scottish succession preferred males to female. A daughter only could succeed if she had no brothers with heirs. Since William was considered heir of line of the Lennox of Woodhead estate then he let Alwyne succeed to the Kincaid arms. William actually had a hyphenated name (Kincaid-Lennox) which barred him from succeeding until he changed his name. Alwyne had no issue so ultimately these coat of arms went to William's only child, Heather, who became Heather Veronica Kincaid of Kincaid. Now, aside from this succession quirk, adding to the farce of it all is what was done for Alwyne's matriculation. What they first did was strike down John Lennox Kincaid Lennox's 1833 matriculation which had the heir male clause. The Lord Lyon declared in Alwyne's matriculation that: "THAT the matriculation and Letters Patent of 12 June 1833 in name of John Lennox Kincaid Lennox of Woodhead and Kincaid was not a proper implementation of the entails of the estates of Woodhead or Kincaid, and that the Patentee was thereunder neither Representer of Lennox of Woodhead nor Representer of Kincaid of Kincaid;" This begs one to ask how it could be that John Lennox Kincaid Lennox was not the representer of Kincaid of Kincaid but his junior descendant could be? The Lord Lyon then declares that Alwyne could bear the supporters because there is no record of an entail for them on record. There was actually an entail on record - the matriculation of John Lennox Kincaid Lennox which he just voided. The next farce was how they got around the issue with Alwyne not being nearest in blood. They declared him nearest in blood 'bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid' and stated that that the arms were to descend to his heirs male bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid whom failing to any younger son of Denis Peareth Hornell Lennox (Heather's son), whom failing to the heirs whomsoever next in blood of the last heir of his coat of arms bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid. So, from then on, key to the succession would be not seniority but who bears the name Kincaid of Kincaid. This was important because the family were also heirs of the Lennoxes of Woodhead who were considered Chiefs of Clan Lennox. They prefer the Lennox title so the senior family member would have to be called Lennox and would not bear the name Kincaid of Kincaid. So when Alwyne died in 1987 Heather's son, Dennis had only one son. There was no younger son to assume the Kincaid of Kincaid name and the oldest was to be the Lennox heir. Heather was allowed to matriculate on the condition that she would later defer if another son was born. Another was not. Dennis died in 1990 removing that possibility. Hence the heir whomsoever applies. Under the old laws this would have been his Dennis' son Edward. We then get the further twist in that while Heather's matriculation was subject to conditions it did give any further conditions who was to succeed. So when Arabella was granted her matriculation they took the further step of giving it to her because Heather granted to her; specifically saying "THAT by Deed of Nomination of date 29 July 1999 the Petitioner's said grandmother did nominate the Petitioner to be Heir Presumptive of Tailzie in the undifferenced Arms of Kincaid of Kincaid." Regardless of these matriculations the Government has struck down the old laws of succession whereby son are given seniority in succession to daughters. The oldest now having the right. Hence things are now even more complicated by the fact that Heather has priority over her brother Edward. So when Don asks about lineage papers that Alwyne had to file my response is that do you really think, given what I outlined about happened, there was too strict consideration given to this. I suggest that if a person wanted to put up the large sums of money to get a matriculation, and there was no opposition, then things would be manipulated to conform to the payess wishes. I don't see anything here that really follows the spirit of traditional clan laws of succession - except perhaps Heather's deed of nomination - nor traditional legal laws of succession. This appears to be simply a case where we have a Kincaid Chief because the Crown recognized them as entitled to the coat of arms of John Kincaid of Kincaid, granted in 1808, when they went through the time and expense to get the recognition. In terms of official recognition, I find it curious that the matriculations do not have specific wording to the effect (ie. we officially recognize) but a more softer recognition by how they are styled. Heather and Arabella were both styled "Representer of the Baronial House of Kincaid of Kincaid, Chief of the Name and Arms of Kincaid" I should note that Olivia Brisbin was frequently in touch with Alwyne at the time he was getting his matriculation. It is clear from his letters that he did not know much about his lineage. He cites his uncle as the genealogist and notes that all he had was his two journals. His uncle clearly spent a lot of time researching records to reconstruct in order to reconstruct his lineages (Lennox, Kincaid, etc.). There was very little known about the Kincaid line prior to the 1808 John Kincaid of Kincaid who married Cecilia Lennox. I have great concerns about how Alwyne and his successors came to become entitled to bear the 'undifferenced arms' of Kincaid of Kincaid and be recognized as Kincaid of Kincaid, Chief of the Name. I say this because of the above and because there are too many unanswered questions - not the least of which there is evidence that the 1833 John Lennox Kincaid Lennox had a brother William. Best wishes! Peter A. Kincaid Fredericton, NB, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: Kincaid Rootsweb List Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid of Washington, DC--1825 Peter, Thanks for correcting the typo! Also in further searching the Kincaid Archives, I found another post by you that gave the names of James Kincaid's sons as James and John and that they both died in New Orleans but have not been able to find them in any records there so far. When Alwyn Kincaid pursued becoming Chief of Kincaid, I assume he had to file a lot of lineage papers. Do you or anyone have access to these? To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Peter for all the great info on Kincaid titles. I added George as possible son of James Kincaid of Georgetown and in a search I found this listing and wonder how this fellow fits into the Kincaid/Lennox lineage picture. 124. George Kincaid Lennox - International Genealogical Index / AS Gender: Male Birth: 23 NOV 1870 Mooltan, , West Bengal, India The listing came from http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/ancestorsearchresults.asp?standardize=N&last_name=Lennox I see a George Kincaid in New Orleans in the Baldwin lineage info whose dates are about right so will check a little more on him. Johannah Morris Baldwin: Abt. 1784d: Bef. 1869 .+George Kincaid Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter A. Kincaid To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Chief of Kincaid was Re: James Kincaid of Washington,DC--1825 I wanted to address you second question in a separate post. This is a detailed post which hopefully will be read fully to understand to point being made. Let me be clear of a technicality with the concept of becoming Chief of Kincaid. The government did not formerlly specifically state who is Chief of Kincaid. This was done by the former Chief and/or the derbfine. However, in 1960 it was held in a court case that the sovereign had final say (Lord Spens case). Alwyne pursued to become entitled to bear the coat of arms of John Kincaid of Kincaid, who matriculated on 29 July 1808, and designation of Kincaid of Kincaid. He was granted this petition. As John was in possession of the ancestral lands of Kincaid and was designated the Laird of Kincaid, the implication is that Alwyne was the best person entitled to be designated Chief of Kincaid - being nearest in blood. In more modern history, when clans got in dispute as to who has the right to be Chief they look to who has the legal right to bear the coat of arms of the person last recognized as Chief. It is interesting to note that while Alwyne was not specifically recognized as Chief of the Kincaid clan, nor representer of the baronial house and family of Kincaid of Kincaid, he was referred to as Chief of the name - apparently a soft recognition of sorts given the precedent decision that year. Let me highlight that this is a reference to Chief of the Name rather than Chief of the Clan. However, the whole process really was a bit of a farce and has become even more so (a case where rules will be bent for those who pay). Let me start with John's GRANT of a coat of arms. It simply read: Kincaid John, of Kincaid in the County of Sterling Esquire Bears Gules a fess Ermine between two Mullets in Chief Or and a triple towered Castle in Base Argent masoned Sable, which last the Family have been in use to carry in their Shields from an Honourable exploit of one of their ancestors in recovering the Castle of Edinburgh from the English in the time of Edward the first, in consequence of which he was made Constable of the Castle and his posterity enjoyed that office for many years. Crest, a triple towered Castle Argent masoned Sable and issuing therefrom a dexter arms from the shoulder embowed, vested in tartan and grasping a drawn broadsword all proper. Motto, This I'll defend. Supporters, Two Highlanders dressed in the highland garb and armed with steel Cuirasses each holding a Lochaber Ax all proper. There is nothing there to say he was Chief of Kincaid or representer of a baronial house of Kincaid. It was simply a grant of a coat of arms. His son, John Lennox Kincaid Lennox, then went on and matriculated a new coat of arms - being the impaled coat of arms of John Kincaid above and Lennox of Woodhead. This matriculation, dated 12 June 1833, clearly states that he was the legal representer of both families and John Kincaid's heir male. It also specifically stated that his father's supporters were confined to the HEIRS MALE of his father. Then we fast forward to 30 March 1960 when Alwyne matriculated his coat of arms - succeeding to John's 1808 grant. At that time, Alwyne was clearly not nearest in blood to 1808 John. Alwyne was the baby of the family. He had one older living brother, William Mandeville Peareth Kincaid Lennox, and three sisters (albeit two of then were at that time deceased). At that time, Scottish succession preferred males to female. A daughter only could succeed if she had no brothers with heirs. Since William was considered heir of line of the Lennox of Woodhead estate then he let Alwyne succeed to the Kincaid arms. William actually had a hyphenated name (Kincaid-Lennox) which barred him from succeeding until he changed his name. Alwyne had no issue so ultimately these coat of arms went to William's only child, Heather, who became Heather Veronica Kincaid of Kincaid. Now, aside from this succession quirk, adding to the farce of it all is what was done for Alwyne's matriculation. What they first did was strike down John Lennox Kincaid Lennox's 1833 matriculation which had the heir male clause. The Lord Lyon declared in Alwyne's matriculation that: "THAT the matriculation and Letters Patent of 12 June 1833 in name of John Lennox Kincaid Lennox of Woodhead and Kincaid was not a proper implementation of the entails of the estates of Woodhead or Kincaid, and that the Patentee was thereunder neither Representer of Lennox of Woodhead nor Representer of Kincaid of Kincaid;" This begs one to ask how it could be that John Lennox Kincaid Lennox was not the representer of Kincaid of Kincaid but his junior descendant could be? The Lord Lyon then declares that Alwyne could bear the supporters because there is no record of an entail for them on record. There was actually an entail on record - the matriculation of John Lennox Kincaid Lennox which he just voided. The next farce was how they got around the issue with Alwyne not being nearest in blood. They declared him nearest in blood 'bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid' and stated that that the arms were to descend to his heirs male bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid whom failing to any younger son of Denis Peareth Hornell Lennox (Heather's son), whom failing to the heirs whomsoever next in blood of the last heir of his coat of arms bearing the name Kincaid of Kincaid. So, from then on, key to the succession would be not seniority but who bears the name Kincaid of Kincaid. This was important because the family were also heirs of the Lennoxes of Woodhead who were considered Chiefs of Clan Lennox. They prefer the Lennox title so the senior family member would have to be called Lennox and would not bear the name Kincaid of Kincaid. So when Alwyne died in 1987 Heather's son, Dennis had only one son. There was no younger son to assume the Kincaid of Kincaid name and the oldest was to be the Lennox heir. Heather was allowed to matriculate on the condition that she would later defer if another son was born. Another was not. Dennis died in 1990 removing that possibility. Hence the heir whomsoever applies. Under the old laws this would have been his Dennis' son Edward. We then get the further twist in that while Heather's matriculation was subject to conditions it did give any further conditions who was to succeed. So when Arabella was granted her matriculation they took the further step of giving it to her because Heather granted to her; specifically saying "THAT by Deed of Nomination of date 29 July 1999 the Petitioner's said grandmother did nominate the Petitioner to be Heir Presumptive of Tailzie in the undifferenced Arms of Kincaid of Kincaid." Regardless of these matriculations the Government has struck down the old laws of succession whereby son are given seniority in succession to daughters. The oldest now having the right. Hence things are now even more complicated by the fact that Heather has priority over her brother Edward. So when Don asks about lineage papers that Alwyne had to file my response is that do you really think, given what I outlined about happened, there was too strict consideration given to this. I suggest that if a person wanted to put up the large sums of money to get a matriculation, and there was no opposition, then things would be manipulated to conform to the payess wishes. I don't see anything here that really follows the spirit of traditional clan laws of succession - except perhaps Heather's deed of nomination - nor traditional legal laws of succession. This appears to be simply a case where we have a Kincaid Chief because the Crown recognized them as entitled to the coat of arms of John Kincaid of Kincaid, granted in 1808, when they went through the time and expense to get the recognition. In terms of official recognition, I find it curious that the matriculations do not have specific wording to the effect (ie. we officially recognize) but a more softer recognition by how they are styled. Heather and Arabella were both styled "Representer of the Baronial House of Kincaid of Kincaid, Chief of the Name and Arms of Kincaid" I should note that Olivia Brisbin was frequently in touch with Alwyne at the time he was getting his matriculation. It is clear from his letters that he did not know much about his lineage. He cites his uncle as the genealogist and notes that all he had was his two journals. His uncle clearly spent a lot of time researching records to reconstruct in order to reconstruct his lineages (Lennox, Kincaid, etc.). There was very little known about the Kincaid line prior to the 1808 John Kincaid of Kincaid who married Cecilia Lennox. I have great concerns about how Alwyne and his successors came to become entitled to bear the 'undifferenced arms' of Kincaid of Kincaid and be recognized as Kincaid of Kincaid, Chief of the Name. I say this because of the above and because there are too many unanswered questions - not the least of which there is evidence that the 1833 John Lennox Kincaid Lennox had a brother William. Best wishes! Peter A. Kincaid Fredericton, NB, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: Kincaid Rootsweb List Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid of Washington, DC--1825 Peter, Thanks for correcting the typo! Also in further searching the Kincaid Archives, I found another post by you that gave the names of James Kincaid's sons as James and John and that they both died in New Orleans but have not been able to find them in any records there so far. When Alwyn Kincaid pursued becoming Chief of Kincaid, I assume he had to file a lot of lineage papers. Do you or anyone have access to these? To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>Peter, Norman, Sue: Is this what was needed? > > Robert Riley Kincade #129770 Participant > (Testing in Progress) > Researcher: Kelly Kincade-Lewis, dau of Robert R. Kincade > > Vetting Robert Riley Kincade to Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > _________________________________________________________________ > Robert Riley Kincade b. Muskogee, OK 7/13/1931 > > Son of: Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay > > Proven by: > 1931 OK Birth Cert. for Robert Riley Kincade naming his parents > as Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay. > > Personal Knowledge: Robert knew his father and was acknowledge by > family as Robert Seth Kincade's son. > __________________________________________________________________ > Robert Seth Kincade b.Ellis Co.OK 4/29/1905 d.Springfield,MO 2/1970 > > Son of: John Albert Kincade and Flora A. Dilley m. 2/18/1891 > > Proven by: > Social Security Death Index Record; stating his date of birth as > 4/29/1905, stating place of birth as OK, and stating place of death > as Springfield, MO Feb 1970. > > US Marine Corp Muster Rolls 1798-1940; Personal records ordered from > the Nat'l Archives stating his date of birth as 4/29/1905, stating his > birth as Arnett, Ellis Co. OK, stating parents as John A. Kincade & Flora > A. Dilley. > > 1910 US Fed Census Records; OK, Harper, Twn of Haskell, family listed as: > J.A.Kincade - head- 39 - m 2 b.MO > Bulah G. Kincade - wife - (stepmom) 20 m 1 b.IA > Ross Kincade - son 10 b.MO > Louise Kincade - dau 7 b.MO > Robert Kincade - son 5 b.OK > Coda Kincade - dau 10/12 b.OK (should be Cleta) > > 1920 US Fed Census Records; MO, Greene, Twn of Springfield Ward 5,family > as: > John A. Kincaid - head 39 b.MO > Beulah Kincaid - wife 30 b.IA > Louise Kincaid -dau 17 b.MO > Robert Kincaid - son 14 b.OK > Cleda Kincaid - dau 10 b. MO > Ivan Kincaid - son 7 4/12 b.OK > Cora Kincaid - dau 1 4/12 b.MO > > Personal knowledge; Robert Seth knew his father and was accepted by family > and friends as John Albert Kincade's son. > __________________________________________________________________________ > John Albert Kincade b.Chillicothe, Livingston Co,MO 7/18/1870 d.1/12/1960 > Springfield,Greene Co., MO > > Son of: Mordecai Kincade & Martha Jane Bailey (Bates) > > Proven by: > Marriage Cert. from Day Co.(now Ellis Co.) OK, dated 12/9/1907, listing > his parents as Mortica Kincade and Martha J. Bates. > > Bias Magazine:Vol 4 -#11, dated 7/21/1953; Personal Biography (Citizen > of the Week Article) of John Albert Kincade, stating his parents as > Mordecai > and Martha Jane Kincade of Chillicothe, MO. As reported by Jim Billings, > Bias Magazine Reporter. > > Personal Knowledge; Robert Riley Kincade & Robert Seth Kincade knew John > Albert Kincade as Robert Seth's father, and Robert Riley's grandfather. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Mordecai Kincade b.IN abt 1844 d.Chillicothe,MO 1872 > > Son of: Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > > Proven by: > 1850 US Census, IN, Marion Co, Twn Lawrence, family as listed: > Mathew Kingkale no age b.VA Male > Elizabeth Kingkade 34 b.IN Female (KY?) > Calvin Kingkade 9 b.IN Male > Sally Kingkade 8 b.IN Female > Mordeca Kingkade 5 b.IN Male > Thomas Kingkade 3 b.IN Male > Francis Kingkade 5/12 b.IN Male > > 1856 State of IA Census, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > Mathew Kincade 48 b.VA Male > Elizabeth Kincade 43 b.KY Female > Calvin Kincade 16 b.IN Male > Saras S Kincade 14 b.IN Female > Mordica Kincade 12 b.IN Male > Thomas Kincade 8 b.IN Male > Frances Kincade 4 b.IN Female (should be Male) > Hannah J Kincade 3 b.IN Female > James Kincade 1 b.IN Male > Alexander Terrel 20 b.OH Male > > 1860 US Census, IA, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > Mathew Kincaid 53 Male b.VA > Elizabeth Kincaid 47 Female b.KY > Mordica Kincaid 16 Male b.IN > Thomas Kincaid 12 Male b.IN > Frances Kincaid 13 Male b.IN > Hannah J Kincaid 8 Female b.IN > James Kincaid 5 Male b.IN > Lovina Kincaid 2 Female b.IA > ______________________________________________________________________ > I haven't found a death cert. for Mordecai Kincade, but I did find one > for his brother Calvin, who is listed on the above 1850 Fed & 1856 IA > State census records. His birth is listed as 7/27/1839, place of birth > is listed as Indiana, date of death is 2/1/1928 (88yrs, 6mo, 5 days) in > the city of Trenton, Co. of Grundy, MO. buried in N.Evans Cemetary, > Trenton, Mo on Feb 2 1928. I found this info on the State of MO's Digital > Heritage Web Site. It is also filed in Grundy County Mo (1928). It lists > his parents as Mathew Kincade b.VA and Elizabeth Humble b.NY. Calvin is > also located on the IA 1860 Fed Census in the same county-Wayne, > twn-Benton and Post Office-Corydon, as the rest of his family, but listed > separately, with his wife: > Calvin Kincaid 20 b.IN > Tlitha Kincaid 18 b.VA > > Also located on the MO Digital Heritage web site, is the service records > for the men of the Civil War, with Mordecai & his brother Calvin listed; > Secretary of State, Missouri Digital Heritage Collection; Missouri > State Archives; Soliders Records: War of 1812-WW 1; Office of Adjutant > General, Box 47, Reel s780: > > Mordecai Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > Spickard, Enrolled:July 12,1862 Where:Chillicothe,MO Ordered into active > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(152 days) Ordered > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (27 days), > Number > days actual service:179, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #611 > > Calvin Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > Sprickard, Enrolled:July12,1862, Where:Chillicothe,MO, Ordered into active > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(206 days) Ordered > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (10 days), > Number > days actual service:216, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #610 > > *I noticed that they joined the same date, served the same time, yet > Mordecai was not credited with as many service days as Calvin. Both Calvin > and Mordecai left the Enrolled Missouri Militia to serve with Prov't > Missouri Militia for a battle out of state, then resumed their duties with > the regualar Missouri Militia until 1864. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Mathew Kincade b.VA abt 1807/1808 d. aft 1860 > > Son of: Unknown > I have not found any absolute proof of Mathew's father or mother. > > Leslie McConachie, who has been noted as an organized and reliable Kincaid > researcher, has listed Mathew's father as Francis Kincade b.1770/1779 > d.1830, a brother named James b.1799, and a brother named Washington > b.1816 > d. aft 1880. > > Mathew does not show up in any census records after 1860. His children for > the most part, moved to northwest MO, and do show up in census records in > Grundy, Caldwell and Livingston Counties. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Additional Resources: > Book titled: "A.W. Kincade", written by James H. Thomas, American Studies, > Wichita State University, 1984. The author sites the following sources: > Jim Billings, "Citizen of the Week", Bias Magazine, 21 July 1953, pp > 20-21; > Alice Moer, ed., Our Ellis County Heritage (Shattuck, OK: Ellis Co. > Historical Society, 1974), p.8 ; O.H. Richards, "Early Days in Day > County", > The Chronicles of Oklahoma, Autumn 1948, pp. 320-323 ; Ada Kincade Lane, > interview; "Obituary", Arnett Leader, 14 Dec 1906.; Dille, The Dille > Family, p 12-13. Book Topic: Mordecai's grandson, Author W. Kincade. > _______________________________________________________________________ > Amendment: > Additional Information: As to clarify the link between Calvin Kincade and > Mordecai Kincade > > > The 1850 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1856 Iowa State Census states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1860 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, > the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > > Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 Fed > Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this > family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family > unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. > > In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife > Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > > On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, > the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's > listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out > of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as > joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > > All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge > of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John > was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John > was 2 in a rail road accident) > John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census > for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new > husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > > Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his > wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death > certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew > Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Robert Riley Kincade #129770 Participant (Testing in Progress) Researcher: Kelly Kincade-Lewis, dau of Robert R. Kincade Vetting Robert Riley Kincade to Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble _________________________________________________________________ Robert Riley Kincade b. Muskogee, OK 7/13/1931 Son of: Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay Proven by: 1931 OK Birth Cert. for Robert Riley Kincade naming his parents as Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay. Personal Knowledge: Robert knew his father and was acknowledge by family as Robert Seth Kincade's son. __________________________________________________________________ Robert Seth Kincade b.Ellis Co.OK 4/29/1905 d.Springfield,MO 2/1970 Son of: John Albert Kincade and Flora A. Dilley m. 2/18/1891 Proven by: Social Security Death Index Record; stating his date of birth as 4/29/1905, stating place of birth as OK, and stating place of death as Springfield, MO Feb 1970. US Marine Corp Muster Rolls 1798-1940; Personal records ordered from the Nat'l Archives stating his date of birth as 4/29/1905, stating his birth as Arnett, Ellis Co. OK, stating parents as John A. Kincade & Flora A. Dilley. 1910 US Fed Census Records; OK, Harper, Twn of Haskell, family listed as: J.A.Kincade - head- 39 - m 2 b.MO Bulah G. Kincade - wife - (stepmom) 20 m 1 b.IA Ross Kincade - son 10 b.MO Louise Kincade - dau 7 b.MO Robert Kincade - son 5 b.OK Coda Kincade - dau 10/12 b.OK (should be Cleta) 1920 US Fed Census Records; MO, Greene, Twn of Springfield Ward 5,family as: John A. Kincaid - head 39 b.MO Beulah Kincaid - wife 30 b.IA Louise Kincaid -dau 17 b.MO Robert Kincaid - son 14 b.OK Cleda Kincaid - dau 10 b. MO Ivan Kincaid - son 7 4/12 b.OK Cora Kincaid - dau 1 4/12 b.MO Personal knowledge; Robert Seth knew his father and was accepted by family and friends as John Albert Kincade's son. __________________________________________________________________________ John Albert Kincade b.Chillicothe, Livingston Co,MO 7/18/1870 d.1/12/1960 Springfield,Greene Co., MO Son of: Mordecai Kincade & Martha Jane Bailey (Bates) Proven by: Marriage Cert. from Day Co.(now Ellis Co.) OK, dated 12/9/1907, listing his parents as Mortica Kincade and Martha J. Bates. Bias Magazine:Vol 4 -#11, dated 7/21/1953; Personal Biography (Citizen of the Week Article) of John Albert Kincade, stating his parents as Mordecai and Martha Jane Kincade of Chillicothe, MO. As reported by Jim Billings, Bias Magazine Reporter. Personal Knowledge; Robert Riley Kincade & Robert Seth Kincade knew John Albert Kincade as Robert Seth's father, and Robert Riley's grandfather. _________________________________________________________________________ Mordecai Kincade b.IN abt 1844 d.Chillicothe,MO 1872 Son of: Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble Proven by: 1850 US Census, IN, Marion Co, Twn Lawrence, family as listed: Mathew Kingkale no age b.VA Male Elizabeth Kingkade 34 b.IN Female (KY?) Calvin Kingkade 9 b.IN Male Sally Kingkade 8 b.IN Female Mordeca Kingkade 5 b.IN Male Thomas Kingkade 3 b.IN Male Francis Kingkade 5/12 b.IN Male 1856 State of IA Census, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: Mathew Kincade 48 b.VA Male Elizabeth Kincade 43 b.KY Female Calvin Kincade 16 b.IN Male Saras S Kincade 14 b.IN Female Mordica Kincade 12 b.IN Male Thomas Kincade 8 b.IN Male Frances Kincade 4 b.IN Female (should be Male) Hannah J Kincade 3 b.IN Female James Kincade 1 b.IN Male Alexander Terrel 20 b.OH Male 1860 US Census, IA, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: Mathew Kincaid 53 Male b.VA Elizabeth Kincaid 47 Female b.KY Mordica Kincaid 16 Male b.IN Thomas Kincaid 12 Male b.IN Frances Kincaid 13 Male b.IN Hannah J Kincaid 8 Female b.IN James Kincaid 5 Male b.IN Lovina Kincaid 2 Female b.IA ______________________________________________________________________ I haven't found a death cert. for Mordecai Kincade, but I did find one for his brother Calvin, who is listed on the above 1850 Fed & 1856 IA State census records. His birth is listed as 7/27/1839, place of birth is listed as Indiana, date of death is 2/1/1928 (88yrs, 6mo, 5 days) in the city of Trenton, Co. of Grundy, MO. buried in N.Evans Cemetary, Trenton, Mo on Feb 2 1928. I found this info on the State of MO's Digital Heritage Web Site. It is also filed in Grundy County Mo (1928). It lists his parents as Mathew Kincade b.VA and Elizabeth Humble b.NY. Calvin is also located on the IA 1860 Fed Census in the same county-Wayne, twn-Benton and Post Office-Corydon, as the rest of his family, but listed separately, with his wife: Calvin Kincaid 20 b.IN Tlitha Kincaid 18 b.VA Also located on the MO Digital Heritage web site, is the service records for the men of the Civil War, with Mordecai & his brother Calvin listed; Secretary of State, Missouri Digital Heritage Collection; Missouri State Archives; Soliders Records: War of 1812-WW 1; Office of Adjutant General, Box 47, Reel s780: Mordecai Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A Spickard, Enrolled:July 12,1862 Where:Chillicothe,MO Ordered into active service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(152 days) Ordered into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (27 days), Number days actual service:179, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #611 Calvin Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A Sprickard, Enrolled:July12,1862, Where:Chillicothe,MO, Ordered into active service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(206 days) Ordered into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (10 days), Number days actual service:216, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #610 *I noticed that they joined the same date, served the same time, yet Mordecai was not credited with as many service days as Calvin. Both Calvin and Mordecai left the Enrolled Missouri Militia to serve with Prov't Missouri Militia for a battle out of state, then resumed their duties with the regualar Missouri Militia until 1864. ________________________________________________________________________ Mathew Kincade b.VA abt 1807/1808 d. aft 1860 Son of: Unknown I have not found any absolute proof of Mathew's father or mother. Leslie McConachie, who has been noted as an organized and reliable Kincaid researcher, has listed Mathew's father as Francis Kincade b.1770/1779 d.1830, a brother named James b.1799, and a brother named Washington b.1816 d. aft 1880. Mathew does not show up in any census records after 1860. His children for the most part, moved to northwest MO, and do show up in census records in Grundy, Caldwell and Livingston Counties. _________________________________________________________________________ Additional Resources: Book titled: "A.W. Kincade", written by James H. Thomas, American Studies, Wichita State University, 1984. The author sites the following sources: Jim Billings, "Citizen of the Week", Bias Magazine, 21 July 1953, pp 20-21; Alice Moer, ed., Our Ellis County Heritage (Shattuck, OK: Ellis Co. Historical Society, 1974), p.8 ; O.H. Richards, "Early Days in Day County", The Chronicles of Oklahoma, Autumn 1948, pp. 320-323 ; Ada Kincade Lane, interview; "Obituary", Arnett Leader, 14 Dec 1906.; Dille, The Dille Family, p 12-13. Book Topic: Mordecai's grandson, Author W. Kincade. _______________________________________________________________________ Amendment: Additional Information: As to clarify the link between Calvin Kincade and Mordecai Kincade The 1850 Fed Census Record states: Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana The 1856 Iowa State Census states: Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana The 1860 Fed Census Record states: Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 Fed Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife Telitha on pg 7 of 26. On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John was 2 in a rail road accident) John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York

I would also like to add for vetting posts generally that they can be amended at anytime that additional information comes to light that clarifies or amplifies a lineage or corrects any errors that might creep into the record..  I have read of people having difficulty trying to correct family trees on Rootsweb.  I believe the discussion list should be a place where an error in a vetting post can be corrected or additional information to a lineage can be added without difficulty.  Sincerely Norman Kincaide

That makes the relationship between Calvin and Mordicai clearer for me. Sincerely Norman Kincaide ----- Original Message ---- From: "lewisjo@junct.com" <lewisjo@junct.com> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:50:48 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Amended Post - Vetting #129770 to Mathew Kincade >Peter, Norman, Sue: Is this what was needed? > > Robert Riley Kincade #129770 Participant > (Testing in Progress) > Researcher: Kelly Kincade-Lewis, dau of Robert R. Kincade > > Vetting Robert Riley Kincade to Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > _________________________________________________________________ > Robert Riley Kincade b. Muskogee, OK  7/13/1931 > > Son of: Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay > > Proven by: > 1931 OK Birth Cert. for Robert Riley Kincade naming his parents > as Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay. > > Personal Knowledge: Robert knew his father and was acknowledge by > family as Robert Seth Kincade's son. > __________________________________________________________________ > Robert Seth Kincade b.Ellis Co.OK 4/29/1905 d.Springfield,MO 2/1970 > > Son of: John Albert Kincade and Flora A. Dilley m. 2/18/1891 > > Proven by: > Social Security Death Index Record; stating his date of birth as > 4/29/1905, stating place of birth as OK, and stating place of death > as Springfield, MO Feb 1970. > > US Marine Corp Muster Rolls 1798-1940; Personal records ordered from > the Nat'l Archives stating his date of birth as 4/29/1905, stating his > birth as Arnett, Ellis Co. OK, stating parents as John A. Kincade & Flora > A. Dilley. > > 1910 US Fed Census Records; OK, Harper, Twn of Haskell, family listed as: > J.A.Kincade - head- 39 - m 2  b.MO > Bulah G. Kincade - wife - (stepmom) 20 m 1 b.IA > Ross Kincade - son 10 b.MO > Louise Kincade - dau 7 b.MO > Robert Kincade - son 5 b.OK > Coda Kincade - dau 10/12 b.OK (should be Cleta) > > 1920 US Fed Census Records; MO, Greene, Twn of Springfield Ward 5,family > as: > John A. Kincaid - head 39 b.MO > Beulah Kincaid - wife 30 b.IA > Louise Kincaid -dau 17 b.MO > Robert Kincaid - son 14 b.OK > Cleda Kincaid - dau 10 b. MO > Ivan Kincaid - son 7 4/12 b.OK > Cora Kincaid - dau 1 4/12 b.MO > > Personal knowledge; Robert Seth knew his father and was accepted by family > and friends as John Albert Kincade's son. > __________________________________________________________________________ > John Albert Kincade b.Chillicothe, Livingston Co,MO 7/18/1870 d.1/12/1960 > Springfield,Greene Co., MO > > Son of: Mordecai Kincade & Martha Jane Bailey (Bates) > > Proven by: > Marriage Cert. from Day Co.(now Ellis Co.) OK, dated 12/9/1907, listing > his parents as Mortica Kincade and Martha J. Bates. > > Bias Magazine:Vol 4 -#11, dated 7/21/1953; Personal Biography (Citizen > of the Week Article) of John Albert Kincade, stating his parents as > Mordecai > and Martha Jane Kincade of Chillicothe, MO. As reported by Jim Billings, > Bias Magazine Reporter. > > Personal Knowledge; Robert Riley Kincade & Robert Seth Kincade knew John > Albert Kincade as Robert Seth's father, and Robert Riley's grandfather.. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Mordecai Kincade b.IN abt 1844  d.Chillicothe,MO 1872 > > Son of: Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > > Proven by: > 1850 US Census, IN, Marion Co, Twn Lawrence, family as listed: > Mathew Kingkale no age b.VA Male > Elizabeth Kingkade 34 b.IN Female (KY?) > Calvin Kingkade 9 b.IN Male > Sally Kingkade 8 b.IN Female > Mordeca Kingkade 5 b.IN Male > Thomas Kingkade 3 b.IN Male > Francis Kingkade 5/12 b.IN Male > > 1856 State of IA Census, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > Mathew Kincade 48 b.VA Male > Elizabeth Kincade 43 b.KY Female > Calvin Kincade 16 b.IN Male > Saras S Kincade 14 b.IN Female > Mordica Kincade 12 b.IN Male > Thomas Kincade 8 b.IN Male > Frances Kincade 4 b.IN Female (should be Male) > Hannah J Kincade 3 b.IN Female > James Kincade 1 b.IN Male > Alexander Terrel 20 b.OH Male > > 1860 US Census, IA, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > Mathew Kincaid 53 Male b.VA > Elizabeth Kincaid 47 Female b.KY > Mordica Kincaid 16 Male b.IN > Thomas Kincaid 12 Male b.IN > Frances Kincaid 13 Male b.IN > Hannah J Kincaid 8 Female b.IN > James Kincaid 5 Male b.IN > Lovina Kincaid 2 Female b..IA > ______________________________________________________________________ > I haven't found a death cert. for Mordecai Kincade, but I did find one > for his brother Calvin, who is listed on the above 1850 Fed & 1856 IA > State census records. His birth is listed as 7/27/1839, place of birth > is listed as Indiana, date of death is 2/1/1928 (88yrs, 6mo, 5 days) in > the city of Trenton, Co. of Grundy, MO. buried in N.Evans Cemetary, > Trenton, Mo on Feb 2 1928.  I found this info on the State of MO's Digital > Heritage Web Site. It is also filed in Grundy County Mo (1928). It lists > his parents as Mathew Kincade b.VA and Elizabeth Humble b.NY. Calvin is > also located on the IA 1860 Fed Census in the same county-Wayne, > twn-Benton and Post Office-Corydon, as the rest of his family, but listed > separately, with his wife: > Calvin Kincaid 20 b.IN > Tlitha Kincaid 18 b.VA > > Also located on the MO Digital Heritage web site, is the service records > for the men of the Civil War, with Mordecai & his brother Calvin listed; > Secretary of State, Missouri Digital Heritage Collection; Missouri > State Archives; Soliders Records: War of 1812-WW 1; Office of Adjutant > General, Box 47, Reel s780: > > Mordecai Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > Spickard, Enrolled:July 12,1862 Where:Chillicothe,MO Ordered into active > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(152 days)  Ordered > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (27 days), > Number > days actual service:179, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #611 > > Calvin Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > Sprickard, Enrolled:July12,1862, Where:Chillicothe,MO, Ordered into active > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(206 days) Ordered > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (10 days), > Number > days actual service:216, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #610 > > *I noticed that they joined the same date, served the same time, yet > Mordecai was not credited with as many service days as Calvin. Both Calvin > and Mordecai left the Enrolled Missouri Militia to serve with Prov't > Missouri Militia for a battle out of state, then resumed their duties with > the regualar Missouri Militia until 1864. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Mathew Kincade b.VA abt 1807/1808 d. aft 1860 > > Son of: Unknown > I have not found any absolute proof of Mathew's father or mother. > > Leslie McConachie, who has been noted as an organized and reliable Kincaid > researcher, has listed Mathew's father as Francis Kincade b.1770/1779 > d.1830, a brother named James b..1799, and a brother named Washington > b.1816 > d. aft 1880. > > Mathew does not show up in any census records after 1860. His children for > the most part, moved to northwest MO, and do show up in census records in > Grundy, Caldwell and Livingston Counties. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Additional Resources: > Book titled: "A.W. Kincade", written by James H. Thomas, American Studies, > Wichita State University, 1984. The author sites the following sources: > Jim Billings, "Citizen of the Week", Bias Magazine, 21 July 1953, pp > 20-21; > Alice Moer, ed., Our Ellis County Heritage (Shattuck, OK: Ellis Co. > Historical Society, 1974), p.8 ; O.H. Richards, "Early Days in Day > County", > The Chronicles of Oklahoma, Autumn 1948, pp. 320-323 ; Ada Kincade Lane, > interview;  "Obituary", Arnett Leader, 14 Dec 1906.; Dille, The Dille > Family, p 12-13.  Book Topic: Mordecai's grandson, Author W. Kincade. > _______________________________________________________________________ > Amendment: > Additional Information: As to clarify the link between Calvin Kincade and > Mordecai Kincade > > > The 1850 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1856 Iowa State Census states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1860 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, > the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > > Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 Fed > Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this > family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family > unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. > > In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo.., Calvin shows up with his wife > Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > > On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, > the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's > listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out > of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as > joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > > All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge > of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John > was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John > was 2 in a rail road accident) > John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census > for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new > husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > > Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his > wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death > certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew > Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >  http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, if anything can be added to the vetting post that will make the lineage clearer, then by all means I think the vetting post should be amended to include that information.  Sincerely Norman Kincaide ----- Original Message ---- From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:33:29 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade Peter and Norman. I probably should have been a little more insistent on inclusive information connecting Calvin and Mordecai when helping Kelley with her post. so your comments are appreciated and I shall try to apply the lesson when helping others. Norman your explanation of why all relevant data should be included within the post is an important reminder that we are not just doing this for ourselves. Kelley, it looks like what is wanted is for you to put the information you alluded to which is not already in the post into it and repost under the subject line: Amended Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade. Peter and Norman, am I interpreting your comments correctly? Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <7kincaid@nb.sympatico.ca> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade > Thank you for your reply.  Please take my comments > as what I see was lacking in the vetting posts.  I > think all the points you make below should be outlined > in your vetting post.  If there is no document that > specifically says that Mordecai and Calvin were brothers > then simply and clearly state that your grandfather > (or whoever) understood them to be brothers and that > the all the records you cite give supporting evidence > for this.  I am not passing judgment on your lineage. > I am giving suggestions for what is needed in your > vetting post.  The way I followed it was that someone > down the road may not believe the connection because > they do not see in the post all the information you have. > > Best wishes! > > Peter > >  ----- Original Message ----- >  From: lewisjo@junct.com >  To: KINCAID@rootsweb.com >  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:45 AM >  Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade > > >  Peter, in a msg posted 9/16/08, you said *does not appear to be any > record >  to say that Mordecai was born in Indiana, nor that he was the brother of >  Calvin who died in Grundy Co., Mo.* > >  The 1850 Fed Census Record states: >  Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > >  The 1856 Iowa State Census states: >  Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > >  The 1860 Fed Census Record states: >  Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, >  the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > >  Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 > Fed >  Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this >  family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family >  unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. > >  In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife >  Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > >  On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, >  the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's >  listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out >  of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as >  joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > >  All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge >  of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John >  was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John >  was 2 in a rail road accident) >  John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census >  for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new >  husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > >  Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his >  wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death >  certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew >  Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you for your reply. Please take my comments as what I see was lacking in the vetting posts. I think all the points you make below should be outlined in your vetting post. If there is no document that specifically says that Mordecai and Calvin were brothers then simply and clearly state that your grandfather (or whoever) understood them to be brothers and that the all the records you cite give supporting evidence for this. I am not passing judgment on your lineage. I am giving suggestions for what is needed in your vetting post. The way I followed it was that someone down the road may not believe the connection because they do not see in the post all the information you have. Best wishes! Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: lewisjo@junct.com To: KINCAID@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade Peter, in a msg posted 9/16/08, you said *does not appear to be any record to say that Mordecai was born in Indiana, nor that he was the brother of Calvin who died in Grundy Co., Mo.* The 1850 Fed Census Record states: Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana The 1856 Iowa State Census states: Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana The 1860 Fed Census Record states: Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 Fed Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife Telitha on pg 7 of 26. On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John was 2 in a rail road accident) John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York

Peter and Norman. I probably should have been a little more insistent on inclusive information connecting Calvin and Mordecai when helping Kelley with her post. so your comments are appreciated and I shall try to apply the lesson when helping others. Norman your explanation of why all relevant data should be included within the post is an important reminder that we are not just doing this for ourselves. Kelley, it looks like what is wanted is for you to put the information you alluded to which is not already in the post into it and repost under the subject line: Amended Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade. Peter and Norman, am I interpreting your comments correctly? Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <7kincaid@nb.sympatico.ca> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 6:50 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade > Thank you for your reply. Please take my comments > as what I see was lacking in the vetting posts. I > think all the points you make below should be outlined > in your vetting post. If there is no document that > specifically says that Mordecai and Calvin were brothers > then simply and clearly state that your grandfather > (or whoever) understood them to be brothers and that > the all the records you cite give supporting evidence > for this. I am not passing judgment on your lineage. > I am giving suggestions for what is needed in your > vetting post. The way I followed it was that someone > down the road may not believe the connection because > they do not see in the post all the information you have. > > Best wishes! > > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lewisjo@junct.com > To: KINCAID@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:45 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade > > > Peter, in a msg posted 9/16/08, you said *does not appear to be any > record > to say that Mordecai was born in Indiana, nor that he was the brother of > Calvin who died in Grundy Co., Mo.* > > The 1850 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1856 Iowa State Census states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1860 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, > the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > > Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 > Fed > Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this > family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family > unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. > > In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife > Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > > On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, > the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's > listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out > of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as > joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > > All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge > of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John > was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John > was 2 in a rail road accident) > John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census > for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new > husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > > Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his > wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death > certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew > Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>Peter, Thank you very much for the comments. I greatly want to express my appreciation for the added information, as I am new to the research field, and want to make sure I follow the standard protocol for the vetting process as well as to follow appropriate guidelines for stating sources and documentation. Please excuse my ignorance, I can and will learn, just have to get passed this curve. Do you have any suggestions as to what I should do next? Thanks again, Kelly Kincade-Lewis dau of Robert R. Kincade #129770 (Pending) Thank you for your reply. Please take my comments > as what I see was lacking in the vetting posts. I > think all the points you make below should be outlined > in your vetting post. If there is no document that > specifically says that Mordecai and Calvin were brothers > then simply and clearly state that your grandfather > (or whoever) understood them to be brothers and that > the all the records you cite give supporting evidence > for this. I am not passing judgment on your lineage. > I am giving suggestions for what is needed in your > vetting post. The way I followed it was that someone > down the road may not believe the connection because > they do not see in the post all the information you have. > > Best wishes! > > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: lewisjo@junct.com > To: KINCAID@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:45 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade > > > Peter, in a msg posted 9/16/08, you said *does not appear to be any > record > to say that Mordecai was born in Indiana, nor that he was the brother of > Calvin who died in Grundy Co., Mo.* > > The 1850 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1856 Iowa State Census states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1860 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, > the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > > Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 > Fed > Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this > family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own > family > unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. > > In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife > Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > > On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, > the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's > listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, > out > of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed > as > joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > > All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge > of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John > was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John > was 2 in a rail road accident) > John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census > for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new > husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > > Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his > wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death > certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as > Mathew > Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I would like to add that vetting posts are not just for today. They are for the researchers of tomorrow who may be starting out with very little information.  I have been contacted by distant relatives because of the information I posted on the Kincaid list.  This is as it should be.  The more exact the information and its supporting citations the better the list can communicate the lineages that have already been vetted or investigated.  This also includes the vigorous discussion that occurs from time to time to iron out discrepencies where information is either lacking or contraditory. Sincerely Norman Kincaide ----- Original Message ---- From: "lewisjo@junct.com" <lewisjo@junct.com> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:55:16 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade >Peter, Thank you very much for the comments. I greatly want to express my appreciation for the added information, as I am new to the research field, and want to make sure I follow the standard protocol for the vetting process as well as to follow appropriate guidelines for stating sources and documentation. Please excuse my ignorance, I can and will learn, just have to get passed this curve. Do you have any suggestions as to what I should do next? Thanks again, Kelly Kincade-Lewis dau of Robert R. Kincade #129770 (Pending) Thank you for your reply.  Please take my comments > as what I see was lacking in the vetting posts.  I > think all the points you make below should be outlined > in your vetting post.  If there is no document that > specifically says that Mordecai and Calvin were brothers > then simply and clearly state that your grandfather > (or whoever) understood them to be brothers and that > the all the records you cite give supporting evidence > for this.  I am not passing judgment on your lineage. > I am giving suggestions for what is needed in your > vetting post.  The way I followed it was that someone > down the road may not believe the connection because > they do not see in the post all the information you have. > > Best wishes! > > Peter > >  ----- Original Message ----- >  From: lewisjo@junct.com >  To: KINCAID@rootsweb.com >  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 8:45 AM >  Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting Post for #129770 to Mathew Kincade > > >  Peter, in a msg posted 9/16/08, you said *does not appear to be any > record >  to say that Mordecai was born in Indiana, nor that he was the brother of >  Calvin who died in Grundy Co., Mo.* > >  The 1850 Fed Census Record states: >  Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > >  The 1856 Iowa State Census states: >  Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > >  The 1860 Fed Census Record states: >  Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, >  the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > >  Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 > Fed >  Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this >  family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own > family >  unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. > >  In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife >  Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > >  On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, >  the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's >  listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, > out >  of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed > as >  joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > >  All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge >  of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John >  was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John >  was 2 in a rail road accident) >  John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census >  for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new >  husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > >  Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his >  wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death >  certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as > Mathew >  Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >  http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Peter, in a msg posted 9/16/08, you said *does not appear to be any record to say that Mordecai was born in Indiana, nor that he was the brother of Calvin who died in Grundy Co., Mo.* The 1850 Fed Census Record states: Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana The 1856 Iowa State Census states: Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana The 1860 Fed Census Record states: Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 Fed Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife Telitha on pg 7 of 26. On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John was 2 in a rail road accident) John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York

Peter, Thanks for correcting the typo! Also in further searching the Kincaid Archives, I found another post by you that gave the names of James Kincaid's sons as James and John and that they both died in New Orleans but have not been able to find them in any records there so far. When Alwyn Kincaid pursued becoming Chief of Kincaid, I assume he had to file a lot of lineage papers. Do you or anyone have access to these? Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter A. Kincaid To: Don W. Kincaid Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid and John Murdock of Washington, DC--1820 Yikes. You seem to have found a typo error on my part. The reference you cite should have the year 1825 and not 1835. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Don W. Kincaid To: Peter A. Kincaid ; kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:50 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid and John Murdock of Washington, DC--1820 Peter, In searching I found an old post by you Subject: Kincaid estate papers inventory Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:10:12 -0300 in which you had this as one of the inventoried papers: T-LX/10/11 George Kincaid's executry (d.1820). Correspondence and legal papers, including two letters from his brother James in Georgetown, District of Columbia (1835). 1799-1840. 1 bundle. Do you have access to these 2 letters mentioned and if so do they mention his children? Thanks mighty much! Don

Checking my notes, I see I missed a key point which, to me, links this James Kincaid of Georgetown as the third son of John Kincaid of Kincaid and Elizabeth Danziel. Heather Kincaid of Kincaid had in her family chart that the Laird of Kincaid's son James died in Georgetown (her chart says Georgetown, Carolina) on 10 June 1827. Aside from the Carolina reference, this fits extremely well with the notice in the The New York Evening Post, in its 13 June 1827 issue, for the death of Jas. Kincaid, age 53, at Georgetown, D.C. on Sunday 10 June 1827. For all of us keen on the DNA project, this family represents the best chance we have to get a DNA sample of the main line of the Kincaids of Kincaid which can be documented. Hence, I would love to learn what happened to his two sons and whether they left issue. Peter A. Kincaid Fredericton, NB, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter A. Kincaid To: Peter A. Kincaid ; kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid and John Murdock of Washington, DC--1820 I forgot to note that thhe 1820 Federal Census for the District of Columbia, Washington, Georgetown has: James Kincaid, a. 45+, 2 males 18-26; 1 female 45+. This fits well with the Laird of Kincaid's son James who is noted as having had two sons. Hence my comment that this record 'likely' relates to the Laird's son. These people were well to do. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter A. Kincaid To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] James Kincaid and John Murdock of Washington, DC--1820 This is likely James Kincaid, third son of John Kincaid of Kincaid and Elizabeth Danziel. He died in Georgetown, District of Columbia on 10 June 1827. The Lennox of Woodhead papers places him there in 1825. He is recorded as having two sons. There are two sources for the sons names; one is the Lennox of Woodhead papers and the other is a family chart of Heather Veronica Kincaid. The former names the sons as John and George while the latter names them as John and James. Heather states that the son died in New Orleans; James in 1828 and John on 8 May 1833. Until evidence is found support these dates I don't treat them seriously. I certainly would love to learn what happened to these two sons. Best wishes! Peter A. Kincaid Fredericton, NB, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara Van Hout To: Kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: [KINCAID] James Kincaid and John Murdock of Washington, DC--1820 >From "Sibley Papers: Farmer's History of Detroit and Michigan, Vol. 1, page 490 James Kincaid and John Murdock were the executors named in the will of Robert Monroe. James Kincaid and John Murdock were in the 1820 census of the District of Columbia. "Robert Monroe was in Detroit as early as 1803, when he was fined for keeping a "stove pipe" which at that time was an offence against the fire protection ordinance. He refused to pay his fine, but upon removing the "nuisance" was excused. He was agent of the public stores and attorney to settle the estate of John Francis Hamtramck. In 1805 he wrote Governor Harrison an account of the fire. He left Detroit in 1806, traveling to Washington, D. C., New York City and finally went to Kingston, Jamaica, where he visited a brother, a practicing lawyer, whom he had not seen for twelve years. He again returned to America. He died in Washington, D. C. His will was proved and allowed May 14, 1819. The executors named in the will were James Kincaid and John Murdock. Monroe left two sons, Robert and James, who were in Pennsylvania in 1827." **************************** The above information was found in google books: Governor and Judges Journal: Proceedings of the Land Board of Detroit By Michigan Commission on land titles, Clarence Monroe Burton Published by , 1915 Original from the University of Michigan Digitized Oct 3, 2007 314 pages http://books.google.com/books?id=8FRLAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA202&lpg=PA202&dq=%22James+Kincaid%22+%2B+Mordock&source=web&ots=15oAWl6Vcd&sig=Rv3dHYBgAwl9kujQW9IG9282V_k&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#PPA202,M1 Barb Van Hout To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message