Years ago, this has been much discussion about what a generation is on the Genealogy-DNA list. I believe the consensus is that it would actually be closer to 30 years than 20. One has to remember that we are not talking strictly about a generation for the overall population. We are only dealing with the reproduction of male (Y-DNA) offspring. Peter > You mention the "80 side and the incorrect 20 side" but I don't see how the probability percentage is a "side" and wonder what you mean by "the incorrect 20 side" . The 8 generations in the example would likely be around 160 to 200 years depending on what you number you use for a generation. Some people use 20 years per generations and some up to 25. I generally use 22 years in estimating generations but to my knowledge no one has done a detailed study to determine the actual average years in a generation over the past 300 years and doubt it will ever be done because of the complexity of doing one that would be mathematically accurate.

Norm You seem to still be doing lots of research and I remember something about you were looking for another job. Is that still the situation? As you probably know, I've never been fully satisfied with the Clingan research linked to my Thomas Kincaid of Anderson County, Tenn.. Secondly, I'm not satisfied that our representative DNA sample has a proven line--sorry Bill, it's not your fault. However, because our sample does fall in nicely with Group C, the same as Alice's line, there seems to be something there worth pursuing. So if you can, keep your eyes peeled for anything in this regard. Bruce

This is very interesting because Andrew and Thomas M. are both names used in my line. Teresa Kincaid DNA 17719 set A2b ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liedtke" <seleaml@actionnet.net> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Fw: Vetting for Thomas M. Kincaid >I do hope a few of you can find the time to review this lineage. It might > prove especially interesting to the Archibald/Andrew family. Margaret > Bradshaw (second marriage) mentioned in the ending notes as a possible > mother to this Thomas McDowell Kincaid (the other Thomas McDowell is a > descendent of John/Alice Dean) can be traced to the same KY county as > Archibald/Andrew. If there is a possibility of a relationship the test > results should come back A-2b. > > I will wait a week then call for a review again. > > Sue Liedtke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Herbert/Marcella Campbell" <campbell@comwares.net> > To: <KINCAID@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:41 AM > Subject: [KINCAID] Fw: Vetting for Thomas M. Kincaid > >> Vetting: Doyle Eugene Kincaid to Thomas McDowell Kincaid >> Researcher: Marcella Kincaid Campbell, sister >> >> DNA# 130629 >> Testing in Progress. >> >> Participant: Doyle Eugene Kincaid b. 7 February 1938 - Harrison >> Township, Clay County, IN >> >> Son of: Solomon Kincaid and Pearl Edna Froderman >> >> Proven by: >> >> Indiana Birth Certificate listing Doyle Eugene as son of Solomon >> Kincaid and Pearl Froderman >> >> Personal knowledge: I knew Solomon as our father and was >> acknowledged >> by family members as his daughter and Doyle as his son. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Solomon Kincaid b. 4 July 1889 in Jasper Co., IL d. 8 February >> 1964 in Clay Co., IN >> m. 5 September 1926 to Pearl Edna Froderman >> >> Son of: James Edgar Kincaid and Harriet Ann Addy >> >> Proven by: >> IL Birth Certificate for Solomon Kincaid listing James Edgar Kincaid >> and Harriet Addy as his parents >> >> Bible Record - Personal possession of Bible ("International Series" >> containing Old and New Testaments published by The John C. Winston Co.) >> Information recorded in Bible as follows: J.E. Kincaid of Clay Co. IN >> and >> Harriet A. Addy of Clay Co., IN were by me united in Matrimony according >> to the ordinance of GOD and the laws of Indiana at Bowling Green on the >> (5) fifth day of March in the year of our Lord 1868. Signed by George >> Beamer Witnessed by: Livona Kincaid, Mary Funk and Casius Funk. >> NOTE: Livonia Kincaid was a sister to J.E. Kincaid (see 1850 census >> for Thomas Kincaid) and Mary Funk was a twin sister to Harriet Addy. >> Casius Funk was the husband of Mary Funk >> >> Other records in Bible list the Marriages of the children, including >> Solomon on September 5, 1926, Children's Names, including Solomon Kincaid >> born on 4 July 1889 along with a twin brother who died unnamed. Deaths >> listed were Harriet Kincaid April 10th, 1898 and the unnamed Infant on >> August 18th, 1889. I was told that this Bible belonged to James Edgar >> and Harriet Kincaid and on the death of Margaret Booker (an older sister >> of Solomon) was passed down to my father, Solomon Kincaid. >> >> Children listed in the Bible are: >> >> Louie Kincaid Jan, 2nd. 1869 fe >> Margaret L. Kincaid Feb. 19th, 1871 fe >> William Kincaid Jan, 22nd, 1873 m >> Catharine Kincaid Aug. 28th, 1875 fe >> John Kincaid July 15th, 1878 m >> Thomas Kincaid Mar. 14, 1881 m >> Ira Kincaid Feb. 1st, 1884 m >> Bertha Kincaid Sept. 23rd, 1886 fe >> Solomon Kincaid July 4th, 1889 m >> Infant, Kincaid July 4th, 1889 m >> >> Marriage Application: Application for Marriage License -- Male - >> shows the following: >> >> Solomon Kincaid , white, born in Jasper Co., Illinois on July 4th, >> 1889 and presently living at Center Point, IN working as a farmer whose >> father was J. E. Kincaid and his mother was Harriet Addy. Subscribed and >> sworn to before _____ McIntyre, Clerk Clay Circuit Court, on 4th day of >> September 1926. Information also included on Pearl E. Froderman, spouse. >> >> 1880 Census for South Muddy Township, Jasper Co., Illinois >> >> Schedule 1, Page 18, Enumeration Dist # 164 >> >> Dwelling # 159, Family # 164 >> >> Kincaid, James E 38 M Farmer Indiana KY KY >> Kincaid, Harriet A 32 wife Hskp Ohio OH >> OH >> Kincaid, Louie 11 dau IL >> IN OH >> Kincaid, Margaret 9 dau IL >> IN >> OH >> Kincaid, William 7 son IL >> IN OH >> Kincaid, Sarah C 4 dau IL >> IN >> OH >> Kincaid, John 2 son IL >> IN OH >> >> 1900 Census for South Muddy Township, Jasper Co., Illinois >> >> Sheet 11, Line 195 >> >> Kincade, James Dec 1841 58 Wd IN OH OH >> Farmer >> Kincade, John July 1878 21 IL >> Farm laborer >> Kincade, Thomas Mar 1881 19 IL >> Farm laborer >> Kincade, Ira Feb 1884 16 IL >> Farm laborer >> Kincade, Bertha Sept 1886 13 IL >> Kincade, Solomon July 1889 10 IL >> Metcalf, Charles W Feb 1873 27 IL IL IL >> Farm laborer married 6 yrs >> Metcalf, Catherine Aug 1875 24 IL IN >> IN >> >> Note: Catherine Metcalf was an older sister of Solomon. Solomon >> was born in 1889 so does not show on 1880 census. Sarah "Catherine" >> married Charles Metcalf in Feb of 1894 and was living in the household >> with her father. See above. >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> James Edgar Kincaid b. 2 December 1841 in Washington Township, >> Clay >> Co., IN d. 12 August 1918 in Richland Co., IL >> m. 5 March 1868 in Clay Co., IN Bk 2, pg 784 to Harriet Ann Addy >> >> >> Son of: Thomas McDowell Kincaid & Martha Ann McNabb >> >> Proven by: >> >> 1840 Clay Co., IN Census >> Thomas M. Kincade 1 male 20-30 1 female under 5 1 female >> 20-30 >> >> 1850 Clay Co., IN Census >> Thomas M Kincaid age 34 KY >> Martha age 34 KY >> Livonia age 14 IN >> Samuel L age 11 IN >> James Edgar age 7 IN >> Mary age 5 IN >> Alvin 1/2 IN >> . >> >> 1860 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house # 398, >> family number 375 >> Thomas M. Kincaid age 49 farmer Kentucky >> Martha A. Kincaid age 44 weaver Kentucky >> Livonia Kincaid age 22 weaver Indiana >> Samuel L. Kincaid age 20 farm laborer Indiana >> James E. Kincaid age 18 farm laborer Indiana >> Eliza Kincaid age 16 spinster Indiana >> Polly Kincaid age 14 Indiana >> William N Kincaid age 7 Indiana >> Nancy E. Kincaid age 4 Indiana >> Henry L. Kincaid age 1 Indiana >> >> 1870 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house #132, >> family number 125 >> Kinkade, Thomas 59 farming Kentucky >> Kinkade, Martha A 54 keeps house Kentucky >> Kinkade, Samuel 31 farm laborer Indiana >> Kinkade, William 17 Indiana >> Kinkade, Elizabeth 14 Indiana >> Kinkade, Henry L 11 Indiana >> >> 1880 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house >> #114, >> family number 114 >> Kingcade, Martha 64 keeps house Kentucky >> Kingcade, Samuel 40 farm hand Indiana >> >> Dwelling house # 115, family # 115 >> Kingcade, Henry 21 farm hand Indiana >> Kingcade, Alma A 21 keeps house Missouri >> >> 1900 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house #195, >> family #195 >> Huber, Frank Oct, 1849 IN PA PA head >> Huber, Nancy E. Mar, 1856 IN KY KY wife >> Huber, Norie A Jan, 1877 IN IN IN dau >> Huber, Marthie Sep, 1878 IN IN IN dau >> Huber, Moris (?) M Jun 1886 IN IN IN son (hard >> to >> read sic Lara Melton Huber) >> >> Kincade, Martha Jan 1816 KY KY KY m-in-law >> >> >> NOTE: James and Harriet Kincaid moved to Jasper Co., Illinois soon >> after their marriage in 1868. >> Personal knowledge - Have no personal knowledge of any of the >> siblings of James E. Kincaid. The last one, Henry, died in 1949 and I had >> never met him. I have snapshots of Henry Kincaid with some of his >> descendants and my father, Solomon. My father acknowledged that Henry was >> his uncle. >> >> Lara (we called him Larry) Huber in the above 1900 census and my >> father, Solomon (went by Toby), were first cousins. I personally knew >> Larry and his wife, Eunice, as a child because we visited them often. >> (Marcella Kincaid Campbell) >> >> --:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Thomas McDowell Kincaid b. 27 February 1811 in KY d. 31 October >> 1875 in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN >> m. 18 August 1836 in Morgan Co., IN to Martha Ann McNabb b. 18 >> January 1816 in KY d. 4 June 1904 in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN >> >> Son of: unknown >> 1840 census for Washington Township, Clay Co, Indiana shows Thomas >> M. >> Kincade, 1 male under 5, 1 male 20-30, 1 female under 5, 1 female 20-30. >> Tombstone inscriptions in Mt Zion Cemetery, Washington Township, >> Clay >> Co., Indiana show Thomas M. Kincaid Born February 12, 1811 Died >> October 31, 1875 and Martha A. Kincaid Born January 18, 1816 Died June >> 4, 1904 NOTE: I have photos of these stones.( Marcella Kincaid >> Campbell) (Marriage Records of Morgan County, Indiana, Book A, page 305 >> (1822-1842) W.R. Stevens, Clerk and Signed by A McNabb AJ states the >> following: Thomas Kincade to Martha Ann McNabb August 18, 1836 >> >> Thomas Kincaid entered land 4 September 1837 in Washington Township, >> Clay Co., IN E 1/2 NE 1/4 Sec. 28 Township 11 North of Range 5 West >> >> He lived there until his death in 1875. This property was in the >> family for a number of years later, because it was purchased/inherited by >> the daughter, Nancy. She and her husband, John Franklin Huber lived >> there >> for a number of years. (I have not checked land records yet on the >> succession of this property.) >> >> NOTE: An Archibald Tousley Kincaid entered land 7 October 1837 in >> Washington Township, Clay co., Indiana W 1/2 NE 1/4 Section 17 Township >> 11 North of Range 5 West. Cenuse record for 1850 shows Archibald >> Kincaid, age 32, b. in Ohio and wife, Sarah, age 22, b. in IN, in >> Washington Township, Clay Co., IN with Margaret Bradshaw, age 64, b. PA, >> Nancy Kincaid, age 34, b. KY and Nelson Kincaid, age 22 b. IN >> >> This property is very near the property of Thomas Kincaid and >> Archibald could possibly be his brother. I have a copy of a letter >> addressed to Thomas Kincaid and family, dated April the th5 1855 from >> Nancy Ann Kincaid. She begins by saying "Dear brother and sister". >> There >> is no indication of where this originated. She requests that Thomas >> shear >> her "few sheep" and that Livonia (oldest daughter of Thomas and Martha) >> to >> spin and weave it for her. I have a copy of another letter dated >> February >> th18 1849 from Philip McNabb of Mooresville, Morgan Co., IN to Thomas and >> Marthy Kincaid. He addressed them as "Dear and mutch respected Uncle and >> Aunt". I have some McNabb information which leads me to believe that >> Martha Ann McNabb was the daughter of James Edgar McNabb and Polly >> Coryell >> who came to Morgan Co. in the mid 1830's from Montgomery Co., KY. I can >> prove that this Phillip McNabb (who was a doctor) was the grandson of >> James Edgar McNabb. Also, Thomas and Martha na! >> >> med their second son (my grandfather) James Edgar Kincaid . Their first >> son was named Samuel. >> >> The 1860 census for Washington Township, Clay Co, IN shows Nancy L. >> Kincaid, 48, weaver b. KY living with the Martin Crows (Crouse) family. >> There is a 4 year discrepancy in the age of the Nancy with Archibald and >> this Nancy, but still could be the same person. >> >> The children of Thomas McDowell Kincaid and Martha Ann McNabb were: >> >> 1. Livonia Kincaid b. 2 February 1837, Clay Co., IN d. 27 >> November 1924, Clay Co., IN m. Michael Huber 12 December 1869 in Clay >> Co., IN Bk 3, pg 31 >> >> 2. Samuel L. Kincaid b. 25 September 1839 in Clay Co., IN d. 16 >> October 1911 in Clay Co., IN Unmarried - Served in Civil War >> >> 3. James Edgar Kincaid b. 2 December 1841 in Clay Co., IN d. 12 >> August 1918 in Richland Co., IL >> m. Harriet Ann Cain or Addy (family used both surnames) 5 March >> 1868 in Clay Co., IN Bk 2 pg 784 Served in Civil War >> >> 4. Eliza Kincaid b. 19 November 1843 in Clay Co., IN d. 32 March >> 1924 in Clay Co. (or possibly Owen Co.) IN >> m. Charles P. Chambers 19 August 1860 in Clay Co., IN Bk 1, pg 522 >> >> 5. Mary "Polly" Kincaid b. 12 April 1846 in Clay Co., IN d. 14 >> October 1927 in Niota, TN m. Abner T. Perry Ray 15 March 1864 in Clay >> Co., IN Bk 2 pg 149 >> >> 6. Alvin M. Kincaid b. 15 February 1850 in Clay Co., IN d. 9 >> October 1851 (probably in Clay Co., IN) >> >> 7. William Nelson Kincaid b. 15 March 1853 in Clay Co., IN d. >> 5 >> July 1942 (probably in Cumberland Co., IL) m. >> Johanna Elizabeth Staley in Clay Co., IN Bk 4 pg 83 >> >> 8. Nancy Elizabeth Kincaid b. 27 March 1856 in Clay Co., IN d. 24 >> January 1935 in Clay Co., IN m. John Franklin Huber 26 March 1847 >> in >> Clay Co., IN Bk 3 pg 504 >> >> 9. Henry Lewis Kincaid b. 16 September 1858 in Clay Co., IN d. 22 >> November 1949 in Blackford Co., IN m. Alma Alice Cravens 24 April 1879 >> in >> Owen County, IN >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Interesting. One comment about "generations". This is a moving target. Many years ago people had more children spread out over a MUCH longer period of time. So if a man fathered a child at 50, he has doubled the common generational span. Another side of that coin is that today people seem to be holding off on the first child longer, way longer in some cases, and having fewer. I would think that with what we know about our own lines, we could count the generations back and get some kind of average. It might be fun. Bruce ---- "Don W. Kincaid" <donwkincaid@cox.net> wrote: > Larry, > > I took several grains of salt and now will answer your post. I don't believe I said "80% means 80 out of 100 times predictions are made" since I have no idea how many time predictions are made. Here is what my post said verbatim > "In this example the" 80% means that 80 times out of 100 that you will find a common ancestor within the 8 generations and that find could have occurred in any generation from 2nd to 8th. Put another way it means there will be a common ancestor found some generation within 8 generations 80% of the time." I welcome your ideas but would like to be quoted accurately. > > You mention the "80 side and the incorrect 20 side" but I don't see how the probability percentage is a "side" and wonder what you mean by "the incorrect 20 side" . The 8 generations in the example would likely be around 160 to 200 years depending on what you number you use for a generation. Some people use 20 years per generations and some up to 25. I generally use 22 years in estimating generations but to my knowledge no one has done a detailed study to determine the actual average years in a generation over the past 300 years and doubt it will ever be done because of the complexity of doing one that would be mathematically accurate. > > I disagree that "The odd thing is, of course, is that if you can supply the new "genertional" link, then you already know more or less when the common ancestor lived!" since all you know and input is that you have no common ancestor for a certain number of generations and the common ancestor might be several generations above the 7 you know you do not share a common ancestor or it could be the very next generation. If you already know your common ancestor I see no need to do the DNA test at all or further refine it. An actual example might help clarify our difference of opinion. When I check my dna match #2562 and look at the the probabilities of having a common ancestor using the 37 marker results, the FTDNA predictor shows 89.02% within 8 generations and 97.47% within 12 generations. When I input the 7 generations we know we do not have a common ancestor and recalculate, FTDNA shows a 75.5% probability within 11 generations and a 94.59% probability within 15 generations ! so! > there is a considerable change in both percent and the time frame. Because of the change in the number of generations for the refinement, there is no way to directly compare the 2 results but is easy to see that the probability percentage is reduced and the time frame is extended considerably if 2 participants know they do not have a common ancestor for 7 generations in this case. > > The FTDNA probability data comes from what you refer to in "If I'm not mistaken, these probabilities can be entered into the clustering routines in the computer to get a "weighted" > cluster result. The mutation knowledge allows a more precise clustering." will result from this weighting you mention. You could spend considerable time and effort inputting all the basic weighting info for each marker and the results you would get will be the same as the FTDNA results which can be done easily and quickly. It would be great if someone would take the time and effort to dig out the basic weighting for each marker the DNA scientists have come up with and post it. > > My statements above are based on my belief that the DNA scientists are correct in their work and consider the DNA test and refinements an optional tool and in my case a very helpful tool. I still rate documentary evidence the best lineage tool we have available and believe the DNA tests are a tool to complement or check the documentary evidence. > > I think my grains of salt have about worn off so will give my take on your joke about the 2 statisticians in battle. If you use a statistical tool and average the 2 shots, the average miss is 5 feet. Your joke reminds me of the one that says figures don't lie but liars figure so guess I better quit. ;-) > > Don > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Kincaid > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:16 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > I probably shouldn't say this, but it's a rainy day outside and I'm in a > frisky mood. So, tongue in cheek and grain of salt.wei > > As Don said, 80% means 80 out of 100 times predictions are made. But wait a > minute. I can only make one prediction, not 100. Only family tree can make > a 100 in its data base. I've only got one ancestor to predict: Am I in the > 80 side or the incorrect 20 side? Or just some plus or minus region around > 250 years? The generations known is simply adding evidence that one is sure > can narrow down the time period further, leading to a new probability. > You're still left with a range of probable dates for a common ancestor, and > it's questionable whether the new probabilies help that much. You're still > looking for a connection at about the same time period. The odd thing is, > of course, is that if you can supply the new "genertional" link, then you > already know more or less when the common ancestor lived! You already > know more than you can get from the refined probability. You have the > genealogical data. So, I always thought that was a bit funny. > > So, I'm with Peter on this one. The sets of say 5 or even our 100 member > data base can make great use of manual or computer clustering of the 25, 36, > or 67 DNA markers to cluster known related members and therefore restrict > the genealogical search to the right place, time, and related > ancestors. This is exactly what we use the DNA evidence to do and it does > not require probabability estimates of time of common ancestor. More useful > in this respect is the scientific knowledge about how easily or often > particular markers mutate. If I'm not mistaken, these probabilites can be > entered into the clustering routines in the computer to get a "weighted" > cluster result. The mutation knowledge allows a more precise clustering. > Once you know this, then the two or three of you who cluster the closest > in the group can search for the common ancestor. By then I think you'd > already have a good idea yourself about the age of the common ancestor. > Unfortunately, it's somewhere in Ireland or Scotland just beyond everyone's > known ancestors. > > What I'd really want to learn is how Family Tree arrives at its > probabilities in the first place. Knowing the two or thre markers that > mismatch seems more useful. So, in my opinion we're already using the DNA > data the right way. Moving from 80% to 90% or from 300 years to 250 years > doesn't seem much of an improvement over the "distance of 35 out of 27 > markers." > > This all reminds me of the two statisticians who went off to war together. > In the first battle they were charged by the enemy and one shot about 5 feet > to the left and the other shot 5 feet to the right. They looked at each > other and said "Got him!" I suppose that was their last accomplishment. So > . . . this is how probabilities work? Neighborhoods or regions of > probability where something may or may not be. Can anyone give us as good a > probability of the US banking system failing if it's not given 700 billion > dollars in one week? Not even close to 80%. Don L Kincaid, clustered in > group C-2. > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> wrote: > > > I don't think 4323 fits with 4164 and 122441. He has the mutation you do > > not. You will need to show that the mutation to 18 in his line was parallel > > before he can be included in John/Margaret Miles line. John did not have > > the > > mutation per your test and 122441. Note that I erred in listing 122441 as > > from another son of George. It is John who (when 122441 is vetted) will be > > known not to have the mutation. It still works out the same as > > contemporaries of George/Jean do have the mutation. Otherwise your grouping > > is feasible. > > > > There is a vetting post about to be made by Marcelle for 130629 whose test > > is at the lab. There is some indication that his results could come back as > > A-2b. I do hope all will take the time to go through the post and comment. > > > > Sue Liedtke > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> > > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:01 AM > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > Thanks, Sue. > > George Kinkead & Jean Mitchell had two sons: Andrew & John. John Kinkead & > > Margaret Miles had at least 3 sons, William, 4323, John 4164 & Andrew, > > 122441 all of which are now represented by DNA samples. I had contacted a > > descendant of Andrew, son of George, about being a DNA donor but never > > heard > > back. This was Jack Kinkead of Cambria County, PA. My theory now is that > > the > > Carlisle, Middleton Township, Tyrone Township, Toboyne Township, Cumberland > > County, PA Kincaids: George, John the Merchant, Andrew the Carpenter, and > > James, who I believe is the James Kinkead of Rowan County, NC, were at the > > closest brothers or if not then cousins. I also believe that Andrew > > Kinkead, > > carpenter, was the father of Andrew and Archibald. As for sample > > 5803, I have tried to figure out where he belongs and one of the few > > logical > > explanations attractive to me is that he may be a grandson of John Kinkead, > > the merchant, through his son, Andrew. But the only heir ever mentioned for > > Andrew, son of John, the merchant, was John who eventually interited the > > Middleton Township plantation and died in 1822 in Carlisle. Then there is > > still sample 15550 who I still believe descends from James Kinkead of West > > Pennsborough/ Dickinson Township, who was a weaver, and William Kinkead > > 5803 > > of Rye Township was also a weaver, so he could be from James Kinkead of > > West > > Pennsborough as well. So what I am seeing is not only a tighter social > > cluster, but a tighter DNA cluster as well. I have tried to find surveys > > for > > James Kinkead of West Pennsborough/Dickinson Township, and William Kinkead > > of Rye Township, but so far have been unsuccessful, even to find them as > > adjacent landowners. James of West Pennsborough was a > > freeman in 1774 so he was born about 1750 and would be contemporary of > > Archibald & Andrew and their cousins. > > > > Sincerely > > Norman Kincaide > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:38:24 AM > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > Only if the 18 at DYS 456 was a mutation from early 1700's and all 2b can > > trace to the same source, (perhaps a brother to George/Jean b c1733?). I > > really don't think this will prove to be a troublesome marker with parallel > > mutations gumming up the works. As Norman is pretty sure that 122441 is > > from > > George/Jean through a different son, we know that George/Jean didn't have > > the mutation and that lines with the mutation believe they can trace to > > ancestors b 1739, 1745 and 1749 (which would be the same generation as > > George/Jean), therefore anyone with it is not a descendent of George/Jean. > > > > Sue Liedtke > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <7kincaid@nb.sympatico.ca> > > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > >I generated a Fluxus graphic based on the 67 marker results to > > > date using reduced median joining with the reduction threshold > > > set to 1 (ie. to reduce parallel mutations). It clusters samples > > > 4323, 5803, 49289, 4164 and 122441 together as one branch. > > > Is this not in line with the relationships as understood by Norman? > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Norman Kincaide > > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:34 PM > > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Sue. Sample 122441 has a 17 at number 30, but has other > > > mismatches with my 4164. 122441 (this line has not been vetted yet) is > > > from a descendant of Martin Kincaid, son of Andrew Kincaid, also brother > > > to my John Kincaid who married Elizabeth Smith and I have a clear paper > > > trail from Martin Kincaid to Andrew and Andrew Kincaid to John Kinkead > > who > > > died in Union Township, Erie County, PA. Andrew Kinkead of Dubois County, > > > IN, sent a letter in 1832 to the Orphan's Court in Erie County, PA giving > > > his brother, John Kinkead, power of attorney over the estate of their > > late > > > father, John Kinkead. Samuel Kincaid of Wayne Township, Erie County, PA, > > > brother to John G. Kincaide, my great great grandfather, wrote to Martin > > > Kincaid in reply to a letter in 1866 that concerned Andrew Kincaid's > > share > > > of John Kinkead's estate that clearly shows a father son, and brother > > > relationship and is in Group A-2a with my sample. > > > > > > Sincerely > > > Norman Kincaide > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> > > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:55:25 PM > > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > Norman, I think you have to look at the pattern of mutation within our > > > project as well as the sheer number of mutations between you and Treasa. > > > The > > > percentage information is all very interesting but is based on averages > > > and > > > sheer numbers so I don't really think it is anything more than a > > > curiousity. > > > > > > The important mutation between your and Treasa's samples occurs with the > > > 18 > > > at marker 30. This is because there is a large representation within the > > > project of those who match Treasa's sample exactly as well as others who > > > also have this mutation but also have a few other scattered mutations.. > > > Unless there was a parallel mutation in her line, it is unlikely she > > > connects to your line before she connects to the others in A-2b. In order > > > to > > > show a parallel mutation she must have a representative from a proven > > > brother's line for each generation until the parallel mutation is > > > isolated. > > > > > > The eldest ancestor claims (unvetted) in A-2b (this set is based on the > > > marker 30 mutation to 18) trace to James/Hanna b 1739 of Rowan Co. NC, > > > Andrew/Martha Townsley b 1745 of Cumberland Co. PA, and John/Ann Gregory > > > b > > > 1749 of Cumberland Co. PA. In the same generation would be your > > > George/Jean > > > Mitchell b c1733 of Cumberland Co. PA who does not have that mutation. > > > While > > > it is POSSIBLE for James, Andrew and John to be brothers, George cannot > > > also > > > be a brother unless somewhere in your line another mutation occured which > > > returned the result at marker 30 to 17. You would need a representative > > > from > > > a brotherly line in each generation to isolate the mutation. The CLOSEST > > > your George could be with them would be first cousin, i.e. it is their > > > father (George's father's brother) who had the original mutation at this > > > marker and all A-2b participants, including Treasa, will ultimately trace > > > to > > > him. > > > > > > >The paper trail indicates that my John Kincaid who married Elizabeth > > > Smith > > > and her William Kincaid who married Elizabeth Glenn were the sons of John > > > Kinkead who married Margaret Miles and died in Union Township, Erie > > > County, > > > PA in 1822.< > > > > > > One of you may have an error in your linkages unless either of you can > > > prove > > > a parallel mutation. > > > > > > Sue Liedtke > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> > > > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:13 AM > > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > > > So the refinement process doesn't apply to instances of where a paper > > > trail > > > definitely points to a common ancester within a definite number of > > > generations based upon the same DNA marker test (in my case 4164, with > > > Treasa Brookman's sampel 4323). > > > > > > Sincerely > > > Norman Kincaide > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Don W. Kincaid <donwkincaid@cox.net> > > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:43:51 AM > > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > First of all, the percentages given are simply the likelihood of having a > > > common ancestor within a certain number of generations but the common > > > ancestor predictor does not show exactly when a common ancestor will be > > > found. If you have an 80% chance of having a common ancestor with a dna > > > match in 8 generations back, a common ancestor could be found in a lesser > > > or > > > greater number of generations. In this example the 80% means that 80 > > > times > > > out of 100 that you will find a common ancestor within the 8 generations > > > and > > > that find could have occurred in any generation from 2nd to 8th. Put > > > another > > > way it means there will be a common ancestor found some generation within > > > 8 > > > generations 80% of the time. > > > > > > The opportunity to refine your results is for those matches for whom you > > > have NOT found a common ancestor and gives you a chance to put in the > > > number > > > of generations you know there is not a common ancestor and the results > > > will > > > be refined to show you more precisely how many generations back that > > > common > > > ancestor will likely be found. It has no value for those matches with > > > whom > > > you know you have a common ancestor. > > > > > > "What exactly does this mean: These results can be refined if their paper > > > trail indicates that no common ancestor between Norman Kincaide and > > > Treasa > > > Brookman could have lived in a certain number of generations." > > > > > > This simply means that the percentages of having a common ancestor will > > > be > > > mathematically refined if you know you do not have a common ancestor in > > > so > > > many generations with a match and input that number of generations. The > > > refinement results will show a larger number of generations to find a > > > common > > > ancestor so be sure to watch for the change in number of generations in > > > the > > > refined results as well as the percentages. > > > > > > "Then there is: However, if you have the information, please enter in the > > > box and click on the recalculate button. > > > (Does this mean that if you are certain that Norman Kincaide & Treasa > > > Brookman had a common ancestor 8 generations ago you enter that number in > > > the box)" > > > > > > I believe the answer to this question is no. If you know you have a > > > common > > > ancestor there is no need to use the refinement process since you already > > > know the common ancestor. > > > > > > "So my main question is: Does knowing that paper trail information > > > increase > > > the percentage of having a common ancestor or not?" > > > > > > The paper trail information should decrease the percentage of having a > > > common ancestor within the same number of generations however remember > > > Family Tree DNA changes the number of generations in the refinement > > > instead > > > of lowering the percentage for the same number of generations. I wish > > > they > > > would change the percentage and leave the number of generations the same > > > since it would make comparison much easier and less confusing! > > > > > > Here is an example from my personal situation. In looking at the FTDNA > > > probability information for my # 1427 closest dna match for 67 markers, > > > James Elliott Kincaid, # 2563, FTDNA shows 85.95% likelihood of finding a > > > common ancestor within 8 generations before doing a refinement. Since our > > > documentation shows there cannot be a common ancestor within 7 > > > generations > > > we put 7 into the box and hit recalculate and see that the refinement > > > shows > > > a 77.76% of having a common ancestor is for the period of 7 up to 11 > > > generations. It also shows that for 15 generations, the percent is > > > 95.98%. > > > This does not tell me which generation to expect to find a common > > > ancestor > > > with 2563, just the odds or likelihood of doing so within a certain > > > number > > > of generations. In my and Jim's case I personally believe we will find a > > > common ancestor within 2 or 3 generations beyond each of our most distant > > > ancestors that are known in early to mid 1700's. > > > > > > I should note that the refinement opportunity for each match will be for > > > the > > > highest number of markers dna test used for both participants so in my > > > example, I cannot use the 37 marker results for anything other than the > > > 4, > > > 8, 12 & 16 generation percentages and if I want to refine my percentages > > > I > > > have to use the 67 marker results. The more markers a participant has > > > been > > > tested for the better the mathematical probability will be more > > > meaningful. > > > > > > Yours aye, > > > > > > Don W. Kincaid > > > Kincaid Surname DNA Administrator Team > > > donwkincaid@cox.net > > > 254 631-5684 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Norman Kincaide > > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 6:40 PM > > > Subject: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what this means? It's from the Family Tree DNA website > > > and > > > I have read it over several times.. > > > > > > Refine your results with paper trail input > > > > > > The above numbers are based exclusively on the comparison of their Y-DNA > > > results, which show 2 mismatches. > > > However, these results can be refined if their paper trail indicates that > > > no > > > common ancestor between Norman Kincaide and Treasa Brookman could have > > > lived > > > in a certain number of past generations. > > > > > > If you don't know this information for a fact, do not change the "1" in > > > the > > > box in the next paragraph. However, if you have the information, please > > > enter in the box and click on the recalculate button. > > > > > > What exactly does this mean: These results can be refined if their paper > > > trail indicates that no common ancestor between Norman Kincaide and > > > Treasa > > > Brookman could have lived in a certain number of generations. > > > > > > And then: > > > If you don't know this information for a fact (does this mean that the > > > paper > > > trail information does not show a common ancestor) do not change the "1" > > > in > > > the box. > > > > > > Then there is: However, if you have the information, please enter in the > > > box > > > and click on the recalculate button. > > > (Does this mean that if you are certain that Norman Kincaide & Treasa > > > Brookman had a common ancestor 8 generations ago you enter that number in > > > the box) > > > > > > The paper trail indicates that my John Kincaid who married Elizabeth > > > Smith > > > and her William Kincaid who married Elizabeth Glenn were the sons of John > > > Kinkead who married Margaret Miles and died in Union Township, Erie > > > County, > > > PA in 1822. > > > > > > So my main question is: Does knowing that paper trail information > > > increase > > > the percentage of having a common ancestor or not? > > > > > > Sincerely > > > Norman Kincaide > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes > > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To > > > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > > > toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotesin the subject and the body of the message > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------Tounsubscribe from the list, please send an email > > toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotesin the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am still in the job search and hence have a lot of time to do research.  Your concern about the DNA sample from your line and the Clingan research have concerned me also.  I found it strange that Bill's sample matches the Group C Kincaids.  His Thomas Kinkead who married Hannah would have to come from a Group C line about 1745.  I would look to Virginia or perhaps the Thomas Kincaid of Lancaster County, PA, later of Augusta County, VA, died in 1751.  But that still does not capture your Clingan connection.  I'll keep my eyes open for anything that may provide a connection. Sincerely Norm Kincaide ----- Original Message ---- From: "btea93059@tx.rr.com" <btea93059@tx.rr.com> To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Cc: Norman Kincaide <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 3:01:09 PM Subject: Kincaid/Clingan Norm           You seem to still be doing lots of research and I remember something about you were looking for another job.  Is that still the situation? As you probably know, I've never been fully satisfied with the Clingan research linked to my Thomas Kincaid of Anderson County, Tenn..  Secondly, I'm not satisfied that our representative DNA sample has a proven line--sorry Bill, it's not your fault.  However, because our sample does fall in nicely with Group C, the same as Alice's line, there seems to be something there worth pursuing. So if you can, keep your eyes peeled for anything in this regard.  Bruce

I do hope a few of you can find the time to review this lineage. It might prove especially interesting to the Archibald/Andrew family. Margaret Bradshaw (second marriage) mentioned in the ending notes as a possible mother to this Thomas McDowell Kincaid (the other Thomas McDowell is a descendent of John/Alice Dean) can be traced to the same KY county as Archibald/Andrew. If there is a possibility of a relationship the test results should come back A-2b. I will wait a week then call for a review again. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herbert/Marcella Campbell" <campbell@comwares.net> To: <KINCAID@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2008 11:41 AM Subject: [KINCAID] Fw: Vetting for Thomas M. Kincaid > Vetting: Doyle Eugene Kincaid to Thomas McDowell Kincaid > Researcher: Marcella Kincaid Campbell, sister > > DNA# 130629 > Testing in Progress. > > Participant: Doyle Eugene Kincaid b. 7 February 1938 - Harrison > Township, Clay County, IN > > Son of: Solomon Kincaid and Pearl Edna Froderman > > Proven by: > > Indiana Birth Certificate listing Doyle Eugene as son of Solomon > Kincaid and Pearl Froderman > > Personal knowledge: I knew Solomon as our father and was acknowledged > by family members as his daughter and Doyle as his son. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Solomon Kincaid b. 4 July 1889 in Jasper Co., IL d. 8 February > 1964 in Clay Co., IN > m. 5 September 1926 to Pearl Edna Froderman > > Son of: James Edgar Kincaid and Harriet Ann Addy > > Proven by: > IL Birth Certificate for Solomon Kincaid listing James Edgar Kincaid > and Harriet Addy as his parents > > Bible Record - Personal possession of Bible ("International Series" > containing Old and New Testaments published by The John C. Winston Co.) > Information recorded in Bible as follows: J.E. Kincaid of Clay Co. IN and > Harriet A. Addy of Clay Co., IN were by me united in Matrimony according > to the ordinance of GOD and the laws of Indiana at Bowling Green on the > (5) fifth day of March in the year of our Lord 1868. Signed by George > Beamer Witnessed by: Livona Kincaid, Mary Funk and Casius Funk. > NOTE: Livonia Kincaid was a sister to J.E. Kincaid (see 1850 census > for Thomas Kincaid) and Mary Funk was a twin sister to Harriet Addy. > Casius Funk was the husband of Mary Funk > > Other records in Bible list the Marriages of the children, including > Solomon on September 5, 1926, Children's Names, including Solomon Kincaid > born on 4 July 1889 along with a twin brother who died unnamed. Deaths > listed were Harriet Kincaid April 10th, 1898 and the unnamed Infant on > August 18th, 1889. I was told that this Bible belonged to James Edgar > and Harriet Kincaid and on the death of Margaret Booker (an older sister > of Solomon) was passed down to my father, Solomon Kincaid. > > Children listed in the Bible are: > > Louie Kincaid Jan, 2nd. 1869 fe > Margaret L. Kincaid Feb. 19th, 1871 fe > William Kincaid Jan, 22nd, 1873 m > Catharine Kincaid Aug. 28th, 1875 fe > John Kincaid July 15th, 1878 m > Thomas Kincaid Mar. 14, 1881 m > Ira Kincaid Feb. 1st, 1884 m > Bertha Kincaid Sept. 23rd, 1886 fe > Solomon Kincaid July 4th, 1889 m > Infant, Kincaid July 4th, 1889 m > > Marriage Application: Application for Marriage License -- Male - > shows the following: > > Solomon Kincaid , white, born in Jasper Co., Illinois on July 4th, > 1889 and presently living at Center Point, IN working as a farmer whose > father was J. E. Kincaid and his mother was Harriet Addy. Subscribed and > sworn to before _____ McIntyre, Clerk Clay Circuit Court, on 4th day of > September 1926. Information also included on Pearl E. Froderman, spouse. > > 1880 Census for South Muddy Township, Jasper Co., Illinois > > Schedule 1, Page 18, Enumeration Dist # 164 > > Dwelling # 159, Family # 164 > > Kincaid, James E 38 M Farmer Indiana KY KY > Kincaid, Harriet A 32 wife Hskp Ohio OH > OH > Kincaid, Louie 11 dau IL > IN OH > Kincaid, Margaret 9 dau IL IN > OH > Kincaid, William 7 son IL > IN OH > Kincaid, Sarah C 4 dau IL IN > OH > Kincaid, John 2 son IL > IN OH > > 1900 Census for South Muddy Township, Jasper Co., Illinois > > Sheet 11, Line 195 > > Kincade, James Dec 1841 58 Wd IN OH OH > Farmer > Kincade, John July 1878 21 IL > Farm laborer > Kincade, Thomas Mar 1881 19 IL > Farm laborer > Kincade, Ira Feb 1884 16 IL > Farm laborer > Kincade, Bertha Sept 1886 13 IL > Kincade, Solomon July 1889 10 IL > Metcalf, Charles W Feb 1873 27 IL IL IL > Farm laborer married 6 yrs > Metcalf, Catherine Aug 1875 24 IL IN IN > > Note: Catherine Metcalf was an older sister of Solomon. Solomon > was born in 1889 so does not show on 1880 census. Sarah "Catherine" > married Charles Metcalf in Feb of 1894 and was living in the household > with her father. See above. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > James Edgar Kincaid b. 2 December 1841 in Washington Township, Clay > Co., IN d. 12 August 1918 in Richland Co., IL > m. 5 March 1868 in Clay Co., IN Bk 2, pg 784 to Harriet Ann Addy > > > Son of: Thomas McDowell Kincaid & Martha Ann McNabb > > Proven by: > > 1840 Clay Co., IN Census > Thomas M. Kincade 1 male 20-30 1 female under 5 1 female > 20-30 > > 1850 Clay Co., IN Census > Thomas M Kincaid age 34 KY > Martha age 34 KY > Livonia age 14 IN > Samuel L age 11 IN > James Edgar age 7 IN > Mary age 5 IN > Alvin 1/2 IN > . > > 1860 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house # 398, > family number 375 > Thomas M. Kincaid age 49 farmer Kentucky > Martha A. Kincaid age 44 weaver Kentucky > Livonia Kincaid age 22 weaver Indiana > Samuel L. Kincaid age 20 farm laborer Indiana > James E. Kincaid age 18 farm laborer Indiana > Eliza Kincaid age 16 spinster Indiana > Polly Kincaid age 14 Indiana > William N Kincaid age 7 Indiana > Nancy E. Kincaid age 4 Indiana > Henry L. Kincaid age 1 Indiana > > 1870 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house #132, > family number 125 > Kinkade, Thomas 59 farming Kentucky > Kinkade, Martha A 54 keeps house Kentucky > Kinkade, Samuel 31 farm laborer Indiana > Kinkade, William 17 Indiana > Kinkade, Elizabeth 14 Indiana > Kinkade, Henry L 11 Indiana > > 1880 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house #114, > family number 114 > Kingcade, Martha 64 keeps house Kentucky > Kingcade, Samuel 40 farm hand Indiana > > Dwelling house # 115, family # 115 > Kingcade, Henry 21 farm hand Indiana > Kingcade, Alma A 21 keeps house Missouri > > 1900 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house #195, > family #195 > Huber, Frank Oct, 1849 IN PA PA head > Huber, Nancy E. Mar, 1856 IN KY KY wife > Huber, Norie A Jan, 1877 IN IN IN dau > Huber, Marthie Sep, 1878 IN IN IN dau > Huber, Moris (?) M Jun 1886 IN IN IN son (hard to > read sic Lara Melton Huber) > > Kincade, Martha Jan 1816 KY KY KY m-in-law > > > NOTE: James and Harriet Kincaid moved to Jasper Co., Illinois soon > after their marriage in 1868. > Personal knowledge - Have no personal knowledge of any of the > siblings of James E. Kincaid. The last one, Henry, died in 1949 and I had > never met him. I have snapshots of Henry Kincaid with some of his > descendants and my father, Solomon. My father acknowledged that Henry was > his uncle. > > Lara (we called him Larry) Huber in the above 1900 census and my > father, Solomon (went by Toby), were first cousins. I personally knew > Larry and his wife, Eunice, as a child because we visited them often. > (Marcella Kincaid Campbell) > > --:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Thomas McDowell Kincaid b. 27 February 1811 in KY d. 31 October > 1875 in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN > m. 18 August 1836 in Morgan Co., IN to Martha Ann McNabb b. 18 > January 1816 in KY d. 4 June 1904 in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN > > Son of: unknown > 1840 census for Washington Township, Clay Co, Indiana shows Thomas M. > Kincade, 1 male under 5, 1 male 20-30, 1 female under 5, 1 female 20-30. > Tombstone inscriptions in Mt Zion Cemetery, Washington Township, Clay > Co., Indiana show Thomas M. Kincaid Born February 12, 1811 Died > October 31, 1875 and Martha A. Kincaid Born January 18, 1816 Died June > 4, 1904 NOTE: I have photos of these stones.( Marcella Kincaid > Campbell) (Marriage Records of Morgan County, Indiana, Book A, page 305 > (1822-1842) W.R. Stevens, Clerk and Signed by A McNabb AJ states the > following: Thomas Kincade to Martha Ann McNabb August 18, 1836 > > Thomas Kincaid entered land 4 September 1837 in Washington Township, > Clay Co., IN E 1/2 NE 1/4 Sec. 28 Township 11 North of Range 5 West > > He lived there until his death in 1875. This property was in the > family for a number of years later, because it was purchased/inherited by > the daughter, Nancy. She and her husband, John Franklin Huber lived there > for a number of years. (I have not checked land records yet on the > succession of this property.) > > NOTE: An Archibald Tousley Kincaid entered land 7 October 1837 in > Washington Township, Clay co., Indiana W 1/2 NE 1/4 Section 17 Township > 11 North of Range 5 West. Cenuse record for 1850 shows Archibald > Kincaid, age 32, b. in Ohio and wife, Sarah, age 22, b. in IN, in > Washington Township, Clay Co., IN with Margaret Bradshaw, age 64, b. PA, > Nancy Kincaid, age 34, b. KY and Nelson Kincaid, age 22 b. IN > > This property is very near the property of Thomas Kincaid and > Archibald could possibly be his brother. I have a copy of a letter > addressed to Thomas Kincaid and family, dated April the th5 1855 from > Nancy Ann Kincaid. She begins by saying "Dear brother and sister". There > is no indication of where this originated. She requests that Thomas shear > her "few sheep" and that Livonia (oldest daughter of Thomas and Martha) to > spin and weave it for her. I have a copy of another letter dated February > th18 1849 from Philip McNabb of Mooresville, Morgan Co., IN to Thomas and > Marthy Kincaid. He addressed them as "Dear and mutch respected Uncle and > Aunt". I have some McNabb information which leads me to believe that > Martha Ann McNabb was the daughter of James Edgar McNabb and Polly Coryell > who came to Morgan Co. in the mid 1830's from Montgomery Co., KY. I can > prove that this Phillip McNabb (who was a doctor) was the grandson of > James Edgar McNabb. Also, Thomas and Martha na! > > med their second son (my grandfather) James Edgar Kincaid . Their first > son was named Samuel. > > The 1860 census for Washington Township, Clay Co, IN shows Nancy L. > Kincaid, 48, weaver b. KY living with the Martin Crows (Crouse) family. > There is a 4 year discrepancy in the age of the Nancy with Archibald and > this Nancy, but still could be the same person. > > The children of Thomas McDowell Kincaid and Martha Ann McNabb were: > > 1. Livonia Kincaid b. 2 February 1837, Clay Co., IN d. 27 > November 1924, Clay Co., IN m. Michael Huber 12 December 1869 in Clay > Co., IN Bk 3, pg 31 > > 2. Samuel L. Kincaid b. 25 September 1839 in Clay Co., IN d. 16 > October 1911 in Clay Co., IN Unmarried - Served in Civil War > > 3. James Edgar Kincaid b. 2 December 1841 in Clay Co., IN d. 12 > August 1918 in Richland Co., IL > m. Harriet Ann Cain or Addy (family used both surnames) 5 March > 1868 in Clay Co., IN Bk 2 pg 784 Served in Civil War > > 4. Eliza Kincaid b. 19 November 1843 in Clay Co., IN d. 32 March > 1924 in Clay Co. (or possibly Owen Co.) IN > m. Charles P. Chambers 19 August 1860 in Clay Co., IN Bk 1, pg 522 > > 5. Mary "Polly" Kincaid b. 12 April 1846 in Clay Co., IN d. 14 > October 1927 in Niota, TN m. Abner T. Perry Ray 15 March 1864 in Clay > Co., IN Bk 2 pg 149 > > 6. Alvin M. Kincaid b. 15 February 1850 in Clay Co., IN d. 9 > October 1851 (probably in Clay Co., IN) > > 7. William Nelson Kincaid b. 15 March 1853 in Clay Co., IN d. 5 > July 1942 (probably in Cumberland Co., IL) m. > Johanna Elizabeth Staley in Clay Co., IN Bk 4 pg 83 > > 8. Nancy Elizabeth Kincaid b. 27 March 1856 in Clay Co., IN d. 24 > January 1935 in Clay Co., IN m. John Franklin Huber 26 March 1847 in > Clay Co., IN Bk 3 pg 504 > > 9. Henry Lewis Kincaid b. 16 September 1858 in Clay Co., IN d. 22 > November 1949 in Blackford Co., IN m. Alma Alice Cravens 24 April 1879 in > Owen County, IN > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kincaid listers, Here is a copy of the reminder about the great special pricing on Family Tree DNA tests that ends tonight that we sent to all Kincaid DNA participants so if you know someone that would benefit from this, the time is short. We just received a request from a Kinkade who saw the link to the Kincaid DNA Project on the Clan Kincaid website who is likely to join bringing to 10 the number we expect to join by tonight since 8/1/08. This makes 3 recent new participants who learned about our Kincaid DNA Project from the Clan Kincaid website so we heartily thank Clan Kincaid and Webmaster Bill Kincaid for providing the link! Last call for the Sizzling Special on new DNA tests as the order has to be in & paid for by midnight tonight, Sept. 30. Here is a recap of the special in case you have someone who wants to join: Y-DNA12 orders include a FREE mtDNA test (Y-DNA12+mtDNA promotion price of $99; normally $189) Y-DNA25 orders include a FREE mtDNA test (Y-DNA25+mtDNA promotion price of $148; normally $238) Y-DNA37 orders price REDUCED to $119 (normally $189) Y-DNA37+mtDNAPlus orders price REDUCED to $189 (normally $339) Y-DNA67+mtDNAPlus orders price REDUCED to $288 (normally $409) mtDNAPlus price REDUCED to $149 (normally $189) To join and get the lowest price ever offered, go to http://www.familytreedna.com/public/kincaid/ and click on "join this project" at the upper left corner of website. You will automatically get the special pricing if you choose the 37 marker test by itself and not the combo 37 marker test unless you want it. We recommend the 37 marker test as it will tell enough to place you on the Kincaid's of all Spellings DNA results Chart Don W. Kincaid Kincaid Surname DNA Administrator Team donwkincaid@cox.net 254 631-5684

Pennie and family, May you find the courage to face tomorrow in the love that surrounds you today. Prayers for all of the family that they will find peace. Connie *In Beautiful Western Kentucky* DNA Kincaid # 3350 DNA Knight #N38010 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Connie's Links-Lots of Links-Try Them www.angelfire.com/ky2/connie/Links.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\o/) Scatter seeds of kindness where you may go! /_\ ----- Original Message ----- From: "pennie milicevich" <isiscatt@yahoo.com> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:50 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Asking for Prayer : Dear fellow Kinkaids,Kincaid researchers, : : My cousin Lonon Smith's lost his dear wife Lori over the weekend. They were in the process of moving from Pine Mountain, California to Prescott Arizonia. Lon went to walk the dog and returned to find Lori, had passed away. he is in the Prescott, Area and will return to Pine Mountain for a memorial service for Lori. : : Lonon Smith's Kinkead tree. Start's with David Kinkead, who built Fort Kinkead, and Matthew Kinkead, who help found Pubelo,CO. : : Pennie Eiben

> My heart, thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. Kelly Kincade-Lewis dau of Robert Kincade #129770 (Pending) Dear fellow Kinkaids,Kincaid researchers, > > My cousin Lonon Smith's lost his dear wife Lori over the weekend. They > were in the process of moving from Pine Mountain, California to Prescott > Arizonia. Lon went to walk the dog and returned to find Lori, had passed > away. he is in the Prescott, Area and will return to Pine Mountain for a > memorial service for Lori. > > Lonon Smith's Kinkead tree. Start's with David Kinkead, who built Fort > Kinkead, and Matthew Kinkead, who help found Pubelo,CO. > > Pennie Eiben > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Pennie and family, May you find the courage to face tomorrow in the love that surrounds you today. Prayers for all of the family that they will find peace. Connie *In Beautiful Western Kentucky* DNA Kincaid # 3350 DNA Knight #N38010 ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Connie's Links-Lots of Links-Try Them www.angelfire.com/ky2/connie/Links.html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\o/) Scatter seeds of kindness where you may go! /_\ Browse the KINCAID archives http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=KINCAID Browse the KINCAID archives http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/KINCAID/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "pennie milicevich" <isiscatt@yahoo.com> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:50 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Asking for Prayer : Dear fellow Kinkaids,Kincaid researchers, : : My cousin Lonon Smith's lost his dear wife Lori over the weekend. They were in the process of moving from Pine Mountain, California to Prescott Arizonia. Lon went to walk the dog and returned to find Lori, had passed away. he is in the Prescott, Area and will return to Pine Mountain for a memorial service for Lori. : : Lonon Smith's Kinkead tree. Start's with David Kinkead, who built Fort Kinkead, and Matthew Kinkead, who help found Pubelo,CO. : : Pennie Eiben

In a message dated 9/29/2008 6:28:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time, isiscatt@yahoo.com writes: My cousin Lonon Smith's lost his dear wife Lori over the weekend. Prayers for peace and comfort for Lonon. **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)

Hi does anyone have information on DOYLE or DOULE LEE KINCAID or a MILLER KINCAID who may have been in California & had a son RICHARD PHILLIP KINCAID? Tamara n Mon, 29 Sep 2008, Sean McNulty wrote... > >Here is what I have gathered. This is her mom, dad, grandmother, grandfather, and great grandfather. I am going to try and do research myself. I dont know if they were born in CA or how they got here. > >Mom- Darlene conover >Dad- Richard Philip Kincaid >Grandmother- Dellie Rowell >Grandfather- Doule lee kincaid >G Grandfather- Doyole lee or miller kincaid > >Thank you very much for getting back to me. > > Respectfully, > Sean McNulty

Dear fellow Kinkaids,Kincaid researchers, My cousin Lonon Smith's lost his dear wife Lori over the weekend. They were in the process of moving from Pine Mountain, California to Prescott Arizonia. Lon went to walk the dog and returned to find Lori, had passed away. he is in the Prescott, Area and will return to Pine Mountain for a memorial service for Lori. Lonon Smith's Kinkead tree. Start's with David Kinkead, who built Fort Kinkead, and Matthew Kinkead, who help found Pubelo,CO. Pennie Eiben

The results for the last panel for #35915's (vetted to George/Elizabeth Dean) upgrade from 37 to 67 markers have been returned. He matches the AAV for C-2 for all of the upgrade at all but one marker. His result at marker 51 (DYS557) is 15 instead of 16. He also has a variance at marker 36 (DYS 442) which is 14 instead of The AAV of 13 and he shares a variance to 24 at marker 2 (DYS390) with 35353 (who also claims to George/Elizabeth Dean) and with 57709 who claims to George b 1811. 57709 has not upgraded from 25 to 37 markers. Because the variances in the above results he may want to consider upgrading to 67 markers. Sue Liedtke

Larry, I took several grains of salt and now will answer your post. I don't believe I said "80% means 80 out of 100 times predictions are made" since I have no idea how many time predictions are made. Here is what my post said verbatim "In this example the" 80% means that 80 times out of 100 that you will find a common ancestor within the 8 generations and that find could have occurred in any generation from 2nd to 8th. Put another way it means there will be a common ancestor found some generation within 8 generations 80% of the time." I welcome your ideas but would like to be quoted accurately. You mention the "80 side and the incorrect 20 side" but I don't see how the probability percentage is a "side" and wonder what you mean by "the incorrect 20 side" . The 8 generations in the example would likely be around 160 to 200 years depending on what you number you use for a generation. Some people use 20 years per generations and some up to 25. I generally use 22 years in estimating generations but to my knowledge no one has done a detailed study to determine the actual average years in a generation over the past 300 years and doubt it will ever be done because of the complexity of doing one that would be mathematically accurate. I disagree that "The odd thing is, of course, is that if you can supply the new "genertional" link, then you already know more or less when the common ancestor lived!" since all you know and input is that you have no common ancestor for a certain number of generations and the common ancestor might be several generations above the 7 you know you do not share a common ancestor or it could be the very next generation. If you already know your common ancestor I see no need to do the DNA test at all or further refine it. An actual example might help clarify our difference of opinion. When I check my dna match #2562 and look at the the probabilities of having a common ancestor using the 37 marker results, the FTDNA predictor shows 89.02% within 8 generations and 97.47% within 12 generations. When I input the 7 generations we know we do not have a common ancestor and recalculate, FTDNA shows a 75.5% probability within 11 generations and a 94.59% probability within 15 generations so there is a considerable change in both percent and the time frame. Because of the change in the number of generations for the refinement, there is no way to directly compare the 2 results but is easy to see that the probability percentage is reduced and the time frame is extended considerably if 2 participants know they do not have a common ancestor for 7 generations in this case. The FTDNA probability data comes from what you refer to in "If I'm not mistaken, these probabilities can be entered into the clustering routines in the computer to get a "weighted" cluster result. The mutation knowledge allows a more precise clustering." will result from this weighting you mention. You could spend considerable time and effort inputting all the basic weighting info for each marker and the results you would get will be the same as the FTDNA results which can be done easily and quickly. It would be great if someone would take the time and effort to dig out the basic weighting for each marker the DNA scientists have come up with and post it. My statements above are based on my belief that the DNA scientists are correct in their work and consider the DNA test and refinements an optional tool and in my case a very helpful tool. I still rate documentary evidence the best lineage tool we have available and believe the DNA tests are a tool to complement or check the documentary evidence. I think my grains of salt have about worn off so will give my take on your joke about the 2 statisticians in battle. If you use a statistical tool and average the 2 shots, the average miss is 5 feet. Your joke reminds me of the one that says figures don't lie but liars figure so guess I better quit. ;-) Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Kincaid To: kincaid@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question I probably shouldn't say this, but it's a rainy day outside and I'm in a frisky mood. So, tongue in cheek and grain of salt.wei As Don said, 80% means 80 out of 100 times predictions are made. But wait a minute. I can only make one prediction, not 100. Only family tree can make a 100 in its data base. I've only got one ancestor to predict: Am I in the 80 side or the incorrect 20 side? Or just some plus or minus region around 250 years? The generations known is simply adding evidence that one is sure can narrow down the time period further, leading to a new probability. You're still left with a range of probable dates for a common ancestor, and it's questionable whether the new probabilies help that much. You're still looking for a connection at about the same time period. The odd thing is, of course, is that if you can supply the new "genertional" link, then you already know more or less when the common ancestor lived! You already know more than you can get from the refined probability. You have the genealogical data. So, I always thought that was a bit funny. So, I'm with Peter on this one. The sets of say 5 or even our 100 member data base can make great use of manual or computer clustering of the 25, 36, or 67 DNA markers to cluster known related members and therefore restrict the genealogical search to the right place, time, and related ancestors. This is exactly what we use the DNA evidence to do and it does not require probabability estimates of time of common ancestor. More useful in this respect is the scientific knowledge about how easily or often particular markers mutate. If I'm not mistaken, these probabilites can be entered into the clustering routines in the computer to get a "weighted" cluster result. The mutation knowledge allows a more precise clustering. Once you know this, then the two or three of you who cluster the closest in the group can search for the common ancestor. By then I think you'd already have a good idea yourself about the age of the common ancestor. Unfortunately, it's somewhere in Ireland or Scotland just beyond everyone's known ancestors. What I'd really want to learn is how Family Tree arrives at its probabilities in the first place. Knowing the two or thre markers that mismatch seems more useful. So, in my opinion we're already using the DNA data the right way. Moving from 80% to 90% or from 300 years to 250 years doesn't seem much of an improvement over the "distance of 35 out of 27 markers." This all reminds me of the two statisticians who went off to war together. In the first battle they were charged by the enemy and one shot about 5 feet to the left and the other shot 5 feet to the right. They looked at each other and said "Got him!" I suppose that was their last accomplishment. So . . . this is how probabilities work? Neighborhoods or regions of probability where something may or may not be. Can anyone give us as good a probability of the US banking system failing if it's not given 700 billion dollars in one week? Not even close to 80%. Don L Kincaid, clustered in group C-2. On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 1:51 PM, Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> wrote: > I don't think 4323 fits with 4164 and 122441. He has the mutation you do > not. You will need to show that the mutation to 18 in his line was parallel > before he can be included in John/Margaret Miles line. John did not have > the > mutation per your test and 122441. Note that I erred in listing 122441 as > from another son of George. It is John who (when 122441 is vetted) will be > known not to have the mutation. It still works out the same as > contemporaries of George/Jean do have the mutation. Otherwise your grouping > is feasible. > > There is a vetting post about to be made by Marcelle for 130629 whose test > is at the lab. There is some indication that his results could come back as > A-2b. I do hope all will take the time to go through the post and comment. > > Sue Liedtke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:01 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > Thanks, Sue. > George Kinkead & Jean Mitchell had two sons: Andrew & John. John Kinkead & > Margaret Miles had at least 3 sons, William, 4323, John 4164 & Andrew, > 122441 all of which are now represented by DNA samples. I had contacted a > descendant of Andrew, son of George, about being a DNA donor but never > heard > back. This was Jack Kinkead of Cambria County, PA. My theory now is that > the > Carlisle, Middleton Township, Tyrone Township, Toboyne Township, Cumberland > County, PA Kincaids: George, John the Merchant, Andrew the Carpenter, and > James, who I believe is the James Kinkead of Rowan County, NC, were at the > closest brothers or if not then cousins. I also believe that Andrew > Kinkead, > carpenter, was the father of Andrew and Archibald. As for sample > 5803, I have tried to figure out where he belongs and one of the few > logical > explanations attractive to me is that he may be a grandson of John Kinkead, > the merchant, through his son, Andrew. But the only heir ever mentioned for > Andrew, son of John, the merchant, was John who eventually interited the > Middleton Township plantation and died in 1822 in Carlisle. Then there is > still sample 15550 who I still believe descends from James Kinkead of West > Pennsborough/ Dickinson Township, who was a weaver, and William Kinkead > 5803 > of Rye Township was also a weaver, so he could be from James Kinkead of > West > Pennsborough as well. So what I am seeing is not only a tighter social > cluster, but a tighter DNA cluster as well. I have tried to find surveys > for > James Kinkead of West Pennsborough/Dickinson Township, and William Kinkead > of Rye Township, but so far have been unsuccessful, even to find them as > adjacent landowners. James of West Pennsborough was a > freeman in 1774 so he was born about 1750 and would be contemporary of > Archibald & Andrew and their cousins. > > Sincerely > Norman Kincaide > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 10:38:24 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > Only if the 18 at DYS 456 was a mutation from early 1700's and all 2b can > trace to the same source, (perhaps a brother to George/Jean b c1733?). I > really don't think this will prove to be a troublesome marker with parallel > mutations gumming up the works. As Norman is pretty sure that 122441 is > from > George/Jean through a different son, we know that George/Jean didn't have > the mutation and that lines with the mutation believe they can trace to > ancestors b 1739, 1745 and 1749 (which would be the same generation as > George/Jean), therefore anyone with it is not a descendent of George/Jean. > > Sue Liedtke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <7kincaid@nb.sympatico.ca> > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:53 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > >I generated a Fluxus graphic based on the 67 marker results to > > date using reduced median joining with the reduction threshold > > set to 1 (ie. to reduce parallel mutations). It clusters samples > > 4323, 5803, 49289, 4164 and 122441 together as one branch. > > Is this not in line with the relationships as understood by Norman? > > > > Peter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Norman Kincaide > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > Thanks, Sue. Sample 122441 has a 17 at number 30, but has other > > mismatches with my 4164. 122441 (this line has not been vetted yet) is > > from a descendant of Martin Kincaid, son of Andrew Kincaid, also brother > > to my John Kincaid who married Elizabeth Smith and I have a clear paper > > trail from Martin Kincaid to Andrew and Andrew Kincaid to John Kinkead > who > > died in Union Township, Erie County, PA. Andrew Kinkead of Dubois County, > > IN, sent a letter in 1832 to the Orphan's Court in Erie County, PA giving > > his brother, John Kinkead, power of attorney over the estate of their > late > > father, John Kinkead. Samuel Kincaid of Wayne Township, Erie County, PA, > > brother to John G. Kincaide, my great great grandfather, wrote to Martin > > Kincaid in reply to a letter in 1866 that concerned Andrew Kincaid's > share > > of John Kinkead's estate that clearly shows a father son, and brother > > relationship and is in Group A-2a with my sample. > > > > Sincerely > > Norman Kincaide > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Sue Liedtke <seleaml@actionnet.net> > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:55:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > Norman, I think you have to look at the pattern of mutation within our > > project as well as the sheer number of mutations between you and Treasa. > > The > > percentage information is all very interesting but is based on averages > > and > > sheer numbers so I don't really think it is anything more than a > > curiousity. > > > > The important mutation between your and Treasa's samples occurs with the > > 18 > > at marker 30. This is because there is a large representation within the > > project of those who match Treasa's sample exactly as well as others who > > also have this mutation but also have a few other scattered mutations.. > > Unless there was a parallel mutation in her line, it is unlikely she > > connects to your line before she connects to the others in A-2b. In order > > to > > show a parallel mutation she must have a representative from a proven > > brother's line for each generation until the parallel mutation is > > isolated. > > > > The eldest ancestor claims (unvetted) in A-2b (this set is based on the > > marker 30 mutation to 18) trace to James/Hanna b 1739 of Rowan Co. NC, > > Andrew/Martha Townsley b 1745 of Cumberland Co. PA, and John/Ann Gregory > > b > > 1749 of Cumberland Co. PA. In the same generation would be your > > George/Jean > > Mitchell b c1733 of Cumberland Co. PA who does not have that mutation. > > While > > it is POSSIBLE for James, Andrew and John to be brothers, George cannot > > also > > be a brother unless somewhere in your line another mutation occured which > > returned the result at marker 30 to 17. You would need a representative > > from > > a brotherly line in each generation to isolate the mutation. The CLOSEST > > your George could be with them would be first cousin, i.e. it is their > > father (George's father's brother) who had the original mutation at this > > marker and all A-2b participants, including Treasa, will ultimately trace > > to > > him. > > > > >The paper trail indicates that my John Kincaid who married Elizabeth > > Smith > > and her William Kincaid who married Elizabeth Glenn were the sons of John > > Kinkead who married Margaret Miles and died in Union Township, Erie > > County, > > PA in 1822.< > > > > One of you may have an error in your linkages unless either of you can > > prove > > a parallel mutation. > > > > Sue Liedtke > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Norman Kincaide" <norman.kincaide@yahoo.com> > > To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:13 AM > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > Thanks, Don. > > > > So the refinement process doesn't apply to instances of where a paper > > trail > > definitely points to a common ancester within a definite number of > > generations based upon the same DNA marker test (in my case 4164, with > > Treasa Brookman's sampel 4323). > > > > Sincerely > > Norman Kincaide > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Don W. Kincaid <donwkincaid@cox.net> > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:43:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > First of all, the percentages given are simply the likelihood of having a > > common ancestor within a certain number of generations but the common > > ancestor predictor does not show exactly when a common ancestor will be > > found. If you have an 80% chance of having a common ancestor with a dna > > match in 8 generations back, a common ancestor could be found in a lesser > > or > > greater number of generations. In this example the 80% means that 80 > > times > > out of 100 that you will find a common ancestor within the 8 generations > > and > > that find could have occurred in any generation from 2nd to 8th. Put > > another > > way it means there will be a common ancestor found some generation within > > 8 > > generations 80% of the time. > > > > The opportunity to refine your results is for those matches for whom you > > have NOT found a common ancestor and gives you a chance to put in the > > number > > of generations you know there is not a common ancestor and the results > > will > > be refined to show you more precisely how many generations back that > > common > > ancestor will likely be found. It has no value for those matches with > > whom > > you know you have a common ancestor. > > > > "What exactly does this mean: These results can be refined if their paper > > trail indicates that no common ancestor between Norman Kincaide and > > Treasa > > Brookman could have lived in a certain number of generations." > > > > This simply means that the percentages of having a common ancestor will > > be > > mathematically refined if you know you do not have a common ancestor in > > so > > many generations with a match and input that number of generations. The > > refinement results will show a larger number of generations to find a > > common > > ancestor so be sure to watch for the change in number of generations in > > the > > refined results as well as the percentages. > > > > "Then there is: However, if you have the information, please enter in the > > box and click on the recalculate button. > > (Does this mean that if you are certain that Norman Kincaide & Treasa > > Brookman had a common ancestor 8 generations ago you enter that number in > > the box)" > > > > I believe the answer to this question is no. If you know you have a > > common > > ancestor there is no need to use the refinement process since you already > > know the common ancestor. > > > > "So my main question is: Does knowing that paper trail information > > increase > > the percentage of having a common ancestor or not?" > > > > The paper trail information should decrease the percentage of having a > > common ancestor within the same number of generations however remember > > Family Tree DNA changes the number of generations in the refinement > > instead > > of lowering the percentage for the same number of generations. I wish > > they > > would change the percentage and leave the number of generations the same > > since it would make comparison much easier and less confusing! > > > > Here is an example from my personal situation. In looking at the FTDNA > > probability information for my # 1427 closest dna match for 67 markers, > > James Elliott Kincaid, # 2563, FTDNA shows 85.95% likelihood of finding a > > common ancestor within 8 generations before doing a refinement. Since our > > documentation shows there cannot be a common ancestor within 7 > > generations > > we put 7 into the box and hit recalculate and see that the refinement > > shows > > a 77.76% of having a common ancestor is for the period of 7 up to 11 > > generations. It also shows that for 15 generations, the percent is > > 95.98%. > > This does not tell me which generation to expect to find a common > > ancestor > > with 2563, just the odds or likelihood of doing so within a certain > > number > > of generations. In my and Jim's case I personally believe we will find a > > common ancestor within 2 or 3 generations beyond each of our most distant > > ancestors that are known in early to mid 1700's. > > > > I should note that the refinement opportunity for each match will be for > > the > > highest number of markers dna test used for both participants so in my > > example, I cannot use the 37 marker results for anything other than the > > 4, > > 8, 12 & 16 generation percentages and if I want to refine my percentages > > I > > have to use the 67 marker results. The more markers a participant has > > been > > tested for the better the mathematical probability will be more > > meaningful. > > > > Yours aye, > > > > Don W. Kincaid > > Kincaid Surname DNA Administrator Team > > donwkincaid@cox.net > > 254 631-5684 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Norman Kincaide > > To: kincaid@rootsweb.com > > Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 6:40 PM > > Subject: [KINCAID] common ancestor question > > > > > > Does anyone know what this means? It's from the Family Tree DNA website > > and > > I have read it over several times.. > > > > Refine your results with paper trail input > > > > The above numbers are based exclusively on the comparison of their Y-DNA > > results, which show 2 mismatches. > > However, these results can be refined if their paper trail indicates that > > no > > common ancestor between Norman Kincaide and Treasa Brookman could have > > lived > > in a certain number of past generations. > > > > If you don't know this information for a fact, do not change the "1" in > > the > > box in the next paragraph. However, if you have the information, please > > enter in the box and click on the recalculate button. > > > > What exactly does this mean: These results can be refined if their paper > > trail indicates that no common ancestor between Norman Kincaide and > > Treasa > > Brookman could have lived in a certain number of generations. > > > > And then: > > If you don't know this information for a fact (does this mean that the > > paper > > trail information does not show a common ancestor) do not change the "1" > > in > > the box. > > > > Then there is: However, if you have the information, please enter in the > > box > > and click on the recalculate button. > > (Does this mean that if you are certain that Norman Kincaide & Treasa > > Brookman had a common ancestor 8 generations ago you enter that number in > > the box) > > > > The paper trail indicates that my John Kincaid who married Elizabeth > > Smith > > and her William Kincaid who married Elizabeth Glenn were the sons of John > > Kinkead who married Margaret Miles and died in Union Township, Erie > > County, > > PA in 1822. > > > > So my main question is: Does knowing that paper trail information > > increase > > the percentage of having a common ancestor or not? > > > > Sincerely > > Norman Kincaide > > > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes > > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------To > > unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > > toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotesin the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls-------------------------------Tounsubscribe from the list, please send an email > toKINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotesin the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Vetting: Doyle Eugene Kincaid to Thomas McDowell Kincaid Researcher: Marcella Kincaid Campbell, sister DNA# 130629 Testing in Progress. Participant: Doyle Eugene Kincaid b. 7 February 1938 - Harrison Township, Clay County, IN Son of: Solomon Kincaid and Pearl Edna Froderman Proven by: Indiana Birth Certificate listing Doyle Eugene as son of Solomon Kincaid and Pearl Froderman Personal knowledge: I knew Solomon as our father and was acknowledged by family members as his daughter and Doyle as his son. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Solomon Kincaid b. 4 July 1889 in Jasper Co., IL d. 8 February 1964 in Clay Co., IN m. 5 September 1926 to Pearl Edna Froderman Son of: James Edgar Kincaid and Harriet Ann Addy Proven by: IL Birth Certificate for Solomon Kincaid listing James Edgar Kincaid and Harriet Addy as his parents Bible Record - Personal possession of Bible ("International Series" containing Old and New Testaments published by The John C. Winston Co.) Information recorded in Bible as follows: J.E. Kincaid of Clay Co. IN and Harriet A. Addy of Clay Co., IN were by me united in Matrimony according to the ordinance of GOD and the laws of Indiana at Bowling Green on the (5) fifth day of March in the year of our Lord 1868. Signed by George Beamer Witnessed by: Livona Kincaid, Mary Funk and Casius Funk. NOTE: Livonia Kincaid was a sister to J.E. Kincaid (see 1850 census for Thomas Kincaid) and Mary Funk was a twin sister to Harriet Addy. Casius Funk was the husband of Mary Funk Other records in Bible list the Marriages of the children, including Solomon on September 5, 1926, Children's Names, including Solomon Kincaid born on 4 July 1889 along with a twin brother who died unnamed. Deaths listed were Harriet Kincaid April 10th, 1898 and the unnamed Infant on August 18th, 1889. I was told that this Bible belonged to James Edgar and Harriet Kincaid and on the death of Margaret Booker (an older sister of Solomon) was passed down to my father, Solomon Kincaid. Children listed in the Bible are: Louie Kincaid Jan, 2nd. 1869 fe Margaret L. Kincaid Feb. 19th, 1871 fe William Kincaid Jan, 22nd, 1873 m Catharine Kincaid Aug. 28th, 1875 fe John Kincaid July 15th, 1878 m Thomas Kincaid Mar. 14, 1881 m Ira Kincaid Feb. 1st, 1884 m Bertha Kincaid Sept. 23rd, 1886 fe Solomon Kincaid July 4th, 1889 m Infant, Kincaid July 4th, 1889 m Marriage Application: Application for Marriage License -- Male - shows the following: Solomon Kincaid , white, born in Jasper Co., Illinois on July 4th, 1889 and presently living at Center Point, IN working as a farmer whose father was J. E. Kincaid and his mother was Harriet Addy. Subscribed and sworn to before _____ McIntyre, Clerk Clay Circuit Court, on 4th day of September 1926. Information also included on Pearl E. Froderman, spouse. 1880 Census for South Muddy Township, Jasper Co., Illinois Schedule 1, Page 18, Enumeration Dist # 164 Dwelling # 159, Family # 164 Kincaid, James E 38 M Farmer Indiana KY KY Kincaid, Harriet A 32 wife Hskp Ohio OH OH Kincaid, Louie 11 dau IL IN OH Kincaid, Margaret 9 dau IL IN OH Kincaid, William 7 son IL IN OH Kincaid, Sarah C 4 dau IL IN OH Kincaid, John 2 son IL IN OH 1900 Census for South Muddy Township, Jasper Co., Illinois Sheet 11, Line 195 Kincade, James Dec 1841 58 Wd IN OH OH Farmer Kincade, John July 1878 21 IL Farm laborer Kincade, Thomas Mar 1881 19 IL Farm laborer Kincade, Ira Feb 1884 16 IL Farm laborer Kincade, Bertha Sept 1886 13 IL Kincade, Solomon July 1889 10 IL Metcalf, Charles W Feb 1873 27 IL IL IL Farm laborer married 6 yrs Metcalf, Catherine Aug 1875 24 IL IN IN Note: Catherine Metcalf was an older sister of Solomon. Solomon was born in 1889 so does not show on 1880 census. Sarah "Catherine" married Charles Metcalf in Feb of 1894 and was living in the household with her father. See above. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Edgar Kincaid b. 2 December 1841 in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN d. 12 August 1918 in Richland Co., IL m. 5 March 1868 in Clay Co., IN Bk 2, pg 784 to Harriet Ann Addy Son of: Thomas McDowell Kincaid & Martha Ann McNabb Proven by: 1840 Clay Co., IN Census Thomas M. Kincade 1 male 20-30 1 female under 5 1 female 20-30 1850 Clay Co., IN Census Thomas M Kincaid age 34 KY Martha age 34 KY Livonia age 14 IN Samuel L age 11 IN James Edgar age 7 IN Mary age 5 IN Alvin 1/2 IN . 1860 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house # 398, family number 375 Thomas M. Kincaid age 49 farmer Kentucky Martha A. Kincaid age 44 weaver Kentucky Livonia Kincaid age 22 weaver Indiana Samuel L. Kincaid age 20 farm laborer Indiana James E. Kincaid age 18 farm laborer Indiana Eliza Kincaid age 16 spinster Indiana Polly Kincaid age 14 Indiana William N Kincaid age 7 Indiana Nancy E. Kincaid age 4 Indiana Henry L. Kincaid age 1 Indiana 1870 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house #132, family number 125 Kinkade, Thomas 59 farming Kentucky Kinkade, Martha A 54 keeps house Kentucky Kinkade, Samuel 31 farm laborer Indiana Kinkade, William 17 Indiana Kinkade, Elizabeth 14 Indiana Kinkade, Henry L 11 Indiana 1880 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house #114, family number 114 Kingcade, Martha 64 keeps house Kentucky Kingcade, Samuel 40 farm hand Indiana Dwelling house # 115, family # 115 Kingcade, Henry 21 farm hand Indiana Kingcade, Alma A 21 keeps house Missouri 1900 Clay Co. IN Census - Washington Township Dwelling house #195, family #195 Huber, Frank Oct, 1849 IN PA PA head Huber, Nancy E. Mar, 1856 IN KY KY wife Huber, Norie A Jan, 1877 IN IN IN dau Huber, Marthie Sep, 1878 IN IN IN dau Huber, Moris (?) M Jun 1886 IN IN IN son (hard to read sic Lara Melton Huber) Kincade, Martha Jan 1816 KY KY KY m-in-law NOTE: James and Harriet Kincaid moved to Jasper Co., Illinois soon after their marriage in 1868. Personal knowledge - Have no personal knowledge of any of the siblings of James E. Kincaid. The last one, Henry, died in 1949 and I had never met him. I have snapshots of Henry Kincaid with some of his descendants and my father, Solomon. My father acknowledged that Henry was his uncle. Lara (we called him Larry) Huber in the above 1900 census and my father, Solomon (went by Toby), were first cousins. I personally knew Larry and his wife, Eunice, as a child because we visited them often. (Marcella Kincaid Campbell) --:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas McDowell Kincaid b. 27 February 1811 in KY d. 31 October 1875 in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN m. 18 August 1836 in Morgan Co., IN to Martha Ann McNabb b. 18 January 1816 in KY d. 4 June 1904 in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN Son of: unknown 1840 census for Washington Township, Clay Co, Indiana shows Thomas M. Kincade, 1 male under 5, 1 male 20-30, 1 female under 5, 1 female 20-30. Tombstone inscriptions in Mt Zion Cemetery, Washington Township, Clay Co., Indiana show Thomas M. Kincaid Born February 12, 1811 Died October 31, 1875 and Martha A. Kincaid Born January 18, 1816 Died June 4, 1904 NOTE: I have photos of these stones.( Marcella Kincaid Campbell) (Marriage Records of Morgan County, Indiana, Book A, page 305 (1822-1842) W.R. Stevens, Clerk and Signed by A McNabb AJ states the following: Thomas Kincade to Martha Ann McNabb August 18, 1836 Thomas Kincaid entered land 4 September 1837 in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN E 1/2 NE 1/4 Sec. 28 Township 11 North of Range 5 West He lived there until his death in 1875. This property was in the family for a number of years later, because it was purchased/inherited by the daughter, Nancy. She and her husband, John Franklin Huber lived there for a number of years. (I have not checked land records yet on the succession of this property.) NOTE: An Archibald Tousley Kincaid entered land 7 October 1837 in Washington Township, Clay co., Indiana W 1/2 NE 1/4 Section 17 Township 11 North of Range 5 West. Cenuse record for 1850 shows Archibald Kincaid, age 32, b. in Ohio and wife, Sarah, age 22, b. in IN, in Washington Township, Clay Co., IN with Margaret Bradshaw, age 64, b. PA, Nancy Kincaid, age 34, b. KY and Nelson Kincaid, age 22 b. IN This property is very near the property of Thomas Kincaid and Archibald could possibly be his brother. I have a copy of a letter addressed to Thomas Kincaid and family, dated April the th5 1855 from Nancy Ann Kincaid. She begins by saying "Dear brother and sister". There is no indication of where this originated. She requests that Thomas shear her "few sheep" and that Livonia (oldest daughter of Thomas and Martha) to spin and weave it for her. I have a copy of another letter dated February th18 1849 from Philip McNabb of Mooresville, Morgan Co., IN to Thomas and Marthy Kincaid. He addressed them as "Dear and mutch respected Uncle and Aunt". I have some McNabb information which leads me to believe that Martha Ann McNabb was the daughter of James Edgar McNabb and Polly Coryell who came to Morgan Co. in the mid 1830's from Montgomery Co., KY. I can prove that this Phillip McNabb (who was a doctor) was the grandson of James Edgar McNabb. Also, Thomas and Martha named their second son (my grandfather) James Edgar Kincaid . Their first son was named Samuel. The 1860 census for Washington Township, Clay Co, IN shows Nancy L. Kincaid, 48, weaver b. KY living with the Martin Crows (Crouse) family. There is a 4 year discrepancy in the age of the Nancy with Archibald and this Nancy, but still could be the same person. The children of Thomas McDowell Kincaid and Martha Ann McNabb were: 1. Livonia Kincaid b. 2 February 1837, Clay Co., IN d. 27 November 1924, Clay Co., IN m. Michael Huber 12 December 1869 in Clay Co., IN Bk 3, pg 31 2. Samuel L. Kincaid b. 25 September 1839 in Clay Co., IN d. 16 October 1911 in Clay Co., IN Unmarried - Served in Civil War 3. James Edgar Kincaid b. 2 December 1841 in Clay Co., IN d. 12 August 1918 in Richland Co., IL m. Harriet Ann Cain or Addy (family used both surnames) 5 March 1868 in Clay Co., IN Bk 2 pg 784 Served in Civil War 4. Eliza Kincaid b. 19 November 1843 in Clay Co., IN d. 32 March 1924 in Clay Co. (or possibly Owen Co.) IN m. Charles P. Chambers 19 August 1860 in Clay Co., IN Bk 1, pg 522 5. Mary "Polly" Kincaid b. 12 April 1846 in Clay Co., IN d. 14 October 1927 in Niota, TN m. Abner T. Perry Ray 15 March 1864 in Clay Co., IN Bk 2 pg 149 6. Alvin M. Kincaid b. 15 February 1850 in Clay Co., IN d. 9 October 1851 (probably in Clay Co., IN) 7. William Nelson Kincaid b. 15 March 1853 in Clay Co., IN d. 5 July 1942 (probably in Cumberland Co., IL) m. Johanna Elizabeth Staley in Clay Co., IN Bk 4 pg 83 8. Nancy Elizabeth Kincaid b. 27 March 1856 in Clay Co., IN d. 24 January 1935 in Clay Co., IN m. John Franklin Huber 26 March 1847 in Clay Co., IN Bk 3 pg 504 9. Henry Lewis Kincaid b. 16 September 1858 in Clay Co., IN d. 22 November 1949 in Blackford Co., IN m. Alma Alice Cravens 24 April 1879 in Owen County, IN

This is a second call for responses on the Amended Vetting Post for #129770. If there are no other questions or concerns, I will mark this line as vetted next Sunday. The test results are not needed to Vet this line to Mathew as no firm claim has been made to an ancestor whose DNA is known. It is very important to West Virginia Kincaids that the line to Mathew be confirmed as solid because the suspected father of Mathew is Francis, son of Thomas/Hannah Tincher Kincaid. If this is a possibility the test results should come back A-1a and further attempts to find data supporting the connection to Francis will be warranted. Although there is a great deal of evidence that 36856/30078 and 101753 in A-1a represent the DNA of Thomas/Hannah through sons John and Samuel respectively, none of the lines have been vetted to Thomas/Hannah. This line has the potential for finding enough data to vet to them. Thomas/Hannah's father is a John Kincaid who was known in Albemarle Co. VA. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: <lewisjo@junct.com> To: <kincaid@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 11:48 AM Subject: [KINCAID] Amended Post - Vetting #129770 to Mathew Kincade > > > Robert Riley Kincade #129770 Participant > (Testing in Progress) > Researcher: Kelly Kincade-Lewis, dau of Robert R. Kincade > > Vetting Robert Riley Kincade to Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > _________________________________________________________________ > Robert Riley Kincade b. Muskogee, OK 7/13/1931 > > Son of: Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay > > Proven by: > 1931 OK Birth Cert. for Robert Riley Kincade naming his parents > as Robert Seth Kincade & Hattie Louise Lay. > > Personal Knowledge: Robert knew his father and was acknowledge by > family as Robert Seth Kincade's son. > __________________________________________________________________ > Robert Seth Kincade b.Ellis Co.OK 4/29/1905 d.Springfield,MO 2/1970 > > Son of: John Albert Kincade and Flora A. Dilley m. 2/18/1891 > > Proven by: > Social Security Death Index Record; stating his date of birth as > 4/29/1905, stating place of birth as OK, and stating place of death > as Springfield, MO Feb 1970. > > US Marine Corp Muster Rolls 1798-1940; Personal records ordered from > the Nat'l Archives stating his date of birth as 4/29/1905, stating his > birth as Arnett, Ellis Co. OK, stating parents as John A. Kincade & Flora > A. Dilley. > > 1910 US Fed Census Records; OK, Harper, Twn of Haskell, family listed as: > J.A.Kincade - head- 39 - m 2 b.MO > Bulah G. Kincade - wife - (stepmom) 20 m 1 b.IA > Ross Kincade - son 10 b.MO > Louise Kincade - dau 7 b.MO > Robert Kincade - son 5 b.OK > Coda Kincade - dau 10/12 b.OK (should be Cleta) > > 1920 US Fed Census Records; MO, Greene, Twn of Springfield Ward 5,family > as: > John A. Kincaid - head 39 b.MO > Beulah Kincaid - wife 30 b.IA > Louise Kincaid -dau 17 b.MO > Robert Kincaid - son 14 b.OK > Cleda Kincaid - dau 10 b. MO > Ivan Kincaid - son 7 4/12 b.OK > Cora Kincaid - dau 1 4/12 b.MO > > Personal knowledge; Robert Seth knew his father and was accepted by family > and friends as John Albert Kincade's son. > __________________________________________________________________________ > John Albert Kincade b.Chillicothe, Livingston Co,MO 7/18/1870 d.1/12/1960 > Springfield,Greene Co., MO > > Son of: Mordecai Kincade & Martha Jane Bailey (Bates) > > Proven by: > Marriage Cert. from Day Co.(now Ellis Co.) OK, dated 12/9/1907, listing > his parents as Mortica Kincade and Martha J. Bates. > > Bias Magazine:Vol 4 -#11, dated 7/21/1953; Personal Biography (Citizen > of the Week Article) of John Albert Kincade, stating his parents as > Mordecai > and Martha Jane Kincade of Chillicothe, MO. As reported by Jim Billings, > Bias Magazine Reporter. > > Personal Knowledge; Robert Riley Kincade & Robert Seth Kincade knew John > Albert Kincade as Robert Seth's father, and Robert Riley's grandfather. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Mordecai Kincade b.IN abt 1844 d.Chillicothe,MO 1872 > > Son of: Mathew Kincade & Elizabeth Humble > > Proven by: > 1850 US Census, IN, Marion Co, Twn Lawrence, family as listed: > Mathew Kingkale no age b.VA Male > Elizabeth Kingkade 34 b.IN Female (KY?) > Calvin Kingkade 9 b.IN Male > Sally Kingkade 8 b.IN Female > Mordeca Kingkade 5 b.IN Male > Thomas Kingkade 3 b.IN Male > Francis Kingkade 5/12 b.IN Male > > 1856 State of IA Census, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > Mathew Kincade 48 b.VA Male > Elizabeth Kincade 43 b.KY Female > Calvin Kincade 16 b.IN Male > Saras S Kincade 14 b.IN Female > Mordica Kincade 12 b.IN Male > Thomas Kincade 8 b.IN Male > Frances Kincade 4 b.IN Female (should be Male) > Hannah J Kincade 3 b.IN Female > James Kincade 1 b.IN Male > Alexander Terrel 20 b.OH Male > > 1860 US Census, IA, Wayne Co, Twn Benton, family as listed: > Mathew Kincaid 53 Male b.VA > Elizabeth Kincaid 47 Female b.KY > Mordica Kincaid 16 Male b.IN > Thomas Kincaid 12 Male b.IN > Frances Kincaid 13 Male b.IN > Hannah J Kincaid 8 Female b.IN > James Kincaid 5 Male b.IN > Lovina Kincaid 2 Female b.IA > ______________________________________________________________________ > I haven't found a death cert. for Mordecai Kincade, but I did find one > for his brother Calvin, who is listed on the above 1850 Fed & 1856 IA > State census records. His birth is listed as 7/27/1839, place of birth > is listed as Indiana, date of death is 2/1/1928 (88yrs, 6mo, 5 days) in > the city of Trenton, Co. of Grundy, MO. buried in N.Evans Cemetary, > Trenton, Mo on Feb 2 1928. I found this info on the State of MO's Digital > Heritage Web Site. It is also filed in Grundy County Mo (1928). It lists > his parents as Mathew Kincade b.VA and Elizabeth Humble b.NY. Calvin is > also located on the IA 1860 Fed Census in the same county-Wayne, > twn-Benton and Post Office-Corydon, as the rest of his family, but listed > separately, with his wife: > Calvin Kincaid 20 b.IN > Tlitha Kincaid 18 b.VA > > Also located on the MO Digital Heritage web site, is the service records > for the men of the Civil War, with Mordecai & his brother Calvin listed; > Secretary of State, Missouri Digital Heritage Collection; Missouri > State Archives; Soliders Records: War of 1812-WW 1; Office of Adjutant > General, Box 47, Reel s780: > > Mordecai Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > Spickard, Enrolled:July 12,1862 Where:Chillicothe,MO Ordered into active > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(152 days) Ordered > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (27 days), > Number > days actual service:179, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #611 > > Calvin Kincade- Rank:Private, Conflict:Civil War, Side:Union, > Organization:Enrolled Missouri Militia, Company:C, Commander:Capt ?A > Sprickard, Enrolled:July12,1862, Where:Chillicothe,MO, Ordered into active > service:July 12,1862 Relieved from duty:Apr 4,1863 *(206 days) Ordered > into active service:July 20,1864, Relieved from duty:1864 (10 days), > Number > days actual service:216, Remarks:Prov't EMM left state, Card #610 > > *I noticed that they joined the same date, served the same time, yet > Mordecai was not credited with as many service days as Calvin. Both Calvin > and Mordecai left the Enrolled Missouri Militia to serve with Prov't > Missouri Militia for a battle out of state, then resumed their duties with > the regualar Missouri Militia until 1864. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Mathew Kincade b.VA abt 1807/1808 d. aft 1860 > > Son of: Unknown > I have not found any absolute proof of Mathew's father or mother. > > Leslie McConachie, who has been noted as an organized and reliable Kincaid > researcher, has listed Mathew's father as Francis Kincade b.1770/1779 > d.1830, a brother named James b.1799, and a brother named Washington > b.1816 > d. aft 1880. > > Mathew does not show up in any census records after 1860. His children for > the most part, moved to northwest MO, and do show up in census records in > Grundy, Caldwell and Livingston Counties. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Additional Resources: > Book titled: "A.W. Kincade", written by James H. Thomas, American Studies, > Wichita State University, 1984. The author sites the following sources: > Jim Billings, "Citizen of the Week", Bias Magazine, 21 July 1953, pp > 20-21; > Alice Moer, ed., Our Ellis County Heritage (Shattuck, OK: Ellis Co. > Historical Society, 1974), p.8 ; O.H. Richards, "Early Days in Day > County", > The Chronicles of Oklahoma, Autumn 1948, pp. 320-323 ; Ada Kincade Lane, > interview; "Obituary", Arnett Leader, 14 Dec 1906.; Dille, The Dille > Family, p 12-13. Book Topic: Mordecai's grandson, Author W. Kincade. > _______________________________________________________________________ > Amendment: > Additional Information: As to clarify the link between Calvin Kincade and > Mordecai Kincade > > > The 1850 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1856 Iowa State Census states: > Birth State for Calvin, Mordecai and other children as Indiana > > The 1860 Fed Census Record states: > Birth State for Mordecai and all other children but one as Indiana, > the other one is the last child born, Lovina, b. IA > > Mordecai is listed with the family of Mathew and Elizabeth in the 1860 Fed > Census for IA on pg 7 of 19 (Ancestry.com), Calvin is missing from this > family unit, but shows up on pg 12 of 19 (Ancestry.com) as his own family > unit with a wife named Telitha, right beside her brother, Anthony Nida. > > In the 1870 Fed Census for Grundy Co. Mo., Calvin shows up with his wife > Telitha on pg 7 of 26. > > On the Missouri Secretary of State, Digital Heritage Collection website, > the Civil War Records, Calvin and Mordecai are the only two Kincade's > listed for the same regiment, same company and serving the same time, out > of the 60 some odd other Kincade/Kincaid's listed. And both are listed as > joining at the Chillicothe, Missouri office. > > All of the above information corresponds with our known family knowledge > of our great great grandfather Mordecai, which my great grandfather John > was told by his mother Martha about his father. (Mordecai died when John > was 2 in a rail road accident) > John's mother, Martha, did remarry, and is listed in the 1880 Fed Census > for the state of Missouri, in the town of Chillicothe, with her new > husband Robert Harris and two more children they had together. > > Calvin, Mordecai's brother, can be followed thru every census with his > wife, Telitha, in Grundy County, until his death in 1928. His death > certificate states his wife's name as Telitha Nida, his parents as Mathew > Kincade b. Virgina, and his mother Elizabeth Humble b. New York > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KINCAID-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have tried to find out more about the Carlisle Munitions Lab.  But what I have found does not carry beyond the end of the Revolutionary War. Then the thought occured to me that maybe this munitions lab is where the United States Army War College is in Carlisle, PA.  I have emailed the Cumberland County Historical Society to see if they can shed a little more light on the Carlisle Munitions Lab. Sincerely Norman Kincaide

Kinkade, Don E. Don E. Kinkade, age 77, of Newburgh, Indiana, passed away at 10:35 a.m. on Saturday, September 27, 2008 at Select Specialty Hospital. Don was born February 12, 1931, in Piper City, Illinois, to Luther and Caroline (Wynn) Kinkade. He was a member of Immanuel United Methodist Church in Olney, Illinois. Don was a veteran of the United States Army and a member of Masonic Lodge No. 866 of West Salem, Illinois. He had worked at AMF Wheel Goods in Olney as a purchasing agent. Don had also been a filter inspector at Champion Laboratories in West Salem, Illinois, and the Olney Township Supervisor for 20 years. Don brought joy to others by playing his fiddle, guitar and singing at various events throughout the Tri-State. He is survived by his wife of 53 years, Nancy (Calvert) Kinkade of Newburgh, Ind.; two daughters, Linda Kinkade-Bottorff and her husband Craig of Newburgh, Ind., and Amy Smith of Newburgh, Ind.; three grandchildren, Spencer Smith and Rachel and Evan Bottorff; one sister, Etta Pampe of Energy, Ill. He was preceded in death by a sister, Blanche Stover, and two brothers, William and Clayton Kinkade. Friends may call from 3 p.m. until 7 p.m. Tuesday, September 30, 2008 at Boone Funeral Home - East Chapel, 5330 Washington Avenue, Evansville, Indiana. Funeral services will be held at 1 p.m. Wednesday, October 1, 2008 at Summers-Kistler Funeral Home, 205 East Elm Street, Olney, Illinois. Friends may call from 11 a.m. until time of service at 1 p.m. at Summers-Kistler Funeral Home. Burial will be in Oak Hill Cemetery in Parkersburg, Illinois, with full military rites. Condolences may be made to the family online at courierpress.com. Published in the Courier Press on 9/28/2008

Norman: Reguarding William Kinkead of Rye Twp. the weaver: William Kinkead first tax appearance in 1820 Rye Twp. Perry Co. listed as a weaver. Taxed in Rye Twp. from 1820 thru 1826. Taxed in Wheatfield Twp. 1827 thru 1839 as a tenant. Taxed in Penn Twp. from 1840 thru 1846; in 1841 as a laborer. Taxed in Wheatfield Twp. 1848 & 1849 as a tenant, William d.1849. NOTE: That Perry Co. Wheatfield Twp. was formed out of Cumberland Co. Rye Twp. and Penn Twp. out of the Wheatfield Twp.. It apperars that the Kinkeads did not move the Twp's did. William had 3 sons Alexander R. ; Francis B. & John Harper. Alex was a wagonmaker; Francis a carpenter; and John a labourer ended up working on the Penn.RXR. John & Francis left Perry Co. following the construction of the RXR in1852, Alex went to Ohio in 1852 or1853and on into Indiana. Francis taught school at the New School at Watts Valley' also worked as a carpender in the building of same school in 1849. Alex purched land in Weatfield Twp. in 1849. It apperas that William Kinkead was a farmer from the1820's to his death in 1849. He married Hanna Bonner ? They were accepted in the Duncannon Presbyterian Church June 1832. Hopefully some of this data may be of help. Sincerely Brian Kincade DNA#5803