With regards to your second question, Alexander and Anna had baptized a number of children but the only ones mentioned in either of their testaments are daughters Jean and Barbara. I have no solid evidence of any other children besides John surviving to adulthood. The is also no evidence that John died with children. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Edinburgh Kincaids > What is the source of your statement that Alexander/Anna's son John died > in > 1726. Do you know anything about their other sons? > > > Barbara

His testament dative and inventory which I have a copy of. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Edinburgh Kincaids > What is the source of your statement that Alexander/Anna's son John died > in > 1726. Do you know anything about their other sons? > > > Barbara > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter A. Kincaid > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Edinburgh Kincaids > >> Another Kincaid with ties to Edinburgh was Alexander Kincaid, >> goldsmith,of >> Saltcoats, who married Anna Lockhart, daughter of James Lockhart and >> Barbara Wardrope, on Oct. 25, 1696. Was the above John Kincaid, Esq. >> possibly the son of Alexander/Anna? > > > No. Alexander & Anna's John died in 1726. > > Peter > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The record below indicate that the famous surgeon, Thomas Kincaid of Edinburgh, was of the Auchinreoch Kincaid family. Also the record seems to indicate that Alexander Kincaid, goldsmith, was a son of John Kincaid of Huck, as he was an apprentice to Zacharius Milleins, goldsmith, in Dec. 1683. Or perhaps there were two Alexander Kincaids, one of Saltcoats and the other of Huck. Another interesting record is for John Kincaid, son to John Kincaid of that Ilk, who was an apprentice to Alexander Kincaid, goldsmith, in 1728. I have marked the records for Alexander Kincaid, goldsmith, with ***. 56 Register of Edinburgh Apprentices. [1666-1700 ,, James, s. to John C. of Crawfoordland, p. to Thomas Kinkead of Auchinreoch, chir. apoth. (B.) 31 Dec. 1690. (This looks like James Craw, or Crawford, on this list of names on the page). Kincaid, Alexr., s. to dec. John K. of Huck, p. to Zacharius Milleins, goldsmyth 12 Dec. 1683 ***„ Archd., s. to John K. of Salcoats, p. to Alexr. Kincaid, gold- smith (B.) 13 July 1699 „ James, s. to umq. Wm. K., mt. in Glasgow, p. to Thomas Kincaid, chirurgiane 25 Feb. 1680 1701-1755] Register of Edinburgh Apprentices. 49 Kincaid, Alexr., s. to Alexr. K., chirurgeon in Falkirk, p. to Thomas Inglis, wright (B.) 24 Nov. 1742 ***„ John,s. to John K. of that Ilk,p.to Alexr. Kincaid, goldsmith(B.) 7 Feb. 1728 ***Napier, James, s. to Peter N. of Napierston, p. to Alexr. Kincaid, goldsmith (B.) 14 Sept. 1720 ***George, s. of Mr. Alexr. R. of Lethinty, p. to Alexr. Kincaid, goldsmith (B.) 21 Aug. 1717 http://www.archive.org/stream/scottishrecordso47scotuoft/scottishrecordso47scotuoft_djvu.txt

Let's end the Wikileaks discussion IT IS MOT GENEALOGY. Ken [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Larry Kincaid Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 10:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Wikileaks The only problem is that there is no crime. The Justice Department is struggling to find a way to charge him with anything. Sharing news is not a crime, otherwise the NY Times would have to be charged again as well for passing the leaks along to the public. The courts acquitted them for publishing the Pentagon papers during the Vietnam war. Not a crime. In the current case, it's also hard to find a crime victim, since no one has ever pointed out anyone who was damaged beyond being embarrassed about what was thought to be confidential communication. There are a lot of other crimes out there, including ones being covered up by official secrecy, but that's another story. As with everyone's ordinary emails, government officials will now have to be more careful about what they say when they think it can be kept secret from the American people. On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Sarah Kincaid <[email protected]>wrote: > > If you do the crime then pay time. > > > From: [email protected] > > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:33:19 -0700 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Wikileaks > > > > We all know free speech has limitations- shouting fire within a theater > as an example. Where others are endangered free speech is not protected. > Assange is a total scum-bag! If he disappears from the face of the earth > I'll not cry one tear! > > On Dec 13, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Peter A. Kincaid wrote: > > > > > I wonder how regular Americans like yourself is looking > > > at the Wikileaks situation. What seems to be the > > > consensus there? > > > > > >> From an outside perspective listening to American media > > > the West is taking a big hit on this. It is not from the release > > > of the information though, but on how American officials are > > > reacting to it. The US is supposed to be for free speech and > > > rule of law but are openly calling for the assassination or jailing > > > of Julian Assange without him being charged with any crime. > > > There was a crime committed but it was by an American in their > > > own system. The New York Times published the same data but > > > nobody is trying to assassinate them or bring financial ruin on > > > this newspaper. Some top American officials (Lieberman for > > > one) called for Assange to be brought to the US and charged > > > with treason. Treason is a crime against one's own country. > > > Assange is an Australian and never was an American. > > > > > > All in all, the US is looking real bad as these people seem to > > > think that when someone pisses them off then their laws > > > to get them should apply to the whole world. On the other > > > hand their free speech rights and rule of law rights don't apply. > > > I am hoping that the warped perspective only applies to the > > > American media. > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > P.S. Don't get me wrong in that I certainly don't blame the US > > > governement for trying to punish Wikileaks business wise. > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca id%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > To join the DNA project, go to: > > > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Bob Arnott > > [email protected] > > (303)741-3468 (h) > > (303) 475-9885 (c) > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca id%20%20DNA.xls > > > > To join the DNA project, go to: > > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca id%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca id%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

190139 matches James Elliott Kincaid, # 2563 on all 67 markers which suggests John the Patriarch and James Gillespie Kincaid (or perhaps his possible father John Kincaid) have a common ancestor a short distance upstream. I am encouraged that a common ancestor may be found in time between some sets in Group A. I agree with Sue that vetting for 80852, whose lineage appears to go back to Joseph of Albemarle Co, and 190139, whose lineage is likely to show back to James Gillespie, would be very helpful in identifying prospects for isolating the mutations in both lines. I believe both of these mutations show the strong relationship between Group A sets 1a & 1b. We will work to find participants to help isolate the mutations and encourage Kincaid List members to do the same. Looking strictly at Set 1b, we now have participants who believe descent from John Kincaid of Sadsbury, Chester County, PA, John Kincaid, The Patriarch of PA, VA and NC, Joseph Kincaid of Albemarle County, VA, David Kincaid of several counties in VA and James Gillespie Kincaid of WV. If James Gillespie Kincaid's father turns out to be John Kincaid as many believe that would make 3 most distant ancestors a John Kincaid out of the 5 mentioned which could be significant in trying to find a common ancestor although I view naming patterns as a clue rather than evidence. Joseph Kincaid named his son John and David named one of his sons John. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liedtke To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 It would really be nice if this mutation could be isolated downline from James Gillespie. There is another incidence where paperwork suggests that a participant descends from Joseph of Albemarle but does not have this mutation. If the two participants could show where the variance occurs and have good paperwork, it might indicate that this marker is not as a good predictor as it has looked like in the past i.e. like the marker 4 mutation to 11 it may be more volitile within our project than others. FTDNA says they are both fairly stable alleles so any parallel mutation would be rare. All A-1 are fairly close genetically and seem to be close socially in the locations where the subsets both exist. I suspect that 1b's founding ancestor may have been the father, grandfather or greatgrandfather of Joseph. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Lou Clegg" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 >I think so too! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don W Kincaid" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 > > >> Yes on 190139 matching 36856 & 30078 except for marker 26. Sue is busy >> baking today so I am answering. >> >> I think this demonstrates that Group A is one big family. >> >> Don >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Mary Lou Clegg >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 8:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 >> >> >> Does that mean that he matches 36856 and 30078 who are descended from >> James >> Gillespie Kincaid at all markers except marker 26? >> >> Mary Lou >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sue Liedtke" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:11 AM >> Subject: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 >> >> >> > The last of the results for 190139 have been returned from the lab. He >> > matches the Group A Apparent Ancestral Values at all 67 markers except >> for >> > marker 26 (DYS 460). Where he has a 12 instead of the AAV value of 11, >> > which >> > puts him in A-1b. >> > >> > This is quite a surprise as the participant believes descent from >> James >> > Gillespie/Mary Tritt. Vetted descendents of James G do not have this >> > variance. They are in A-1a Fayette. Since this is a significant >> mutation, >> > in >> > order to prove descent from James G, the mutation needs to be isolated >> > downline from James G. through additional testing and iron-clad >> paperwork. >> > >> > Sue Liedtke >> > >> > >> > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> > >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> > >> > To join the DNA project, go to: >> > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The only problem is that there is no crime. The Justice Department is struggling to find a way to charge him with anything. Sharing news is not a crime, otherwise the NY Times would have to be charged again as well for passing the leaks along to the public. The courts acquitted them for publishing the Pentagon papers during the Vietnam war. Not a crime. In the current case, it's also hard to find a crime victim, since no one has ever pointed out anyone who was damaged beyond being embarrassed about what was thought to be confidential communication. There are a lot of other crimes out there, including ones being covered up by official secrecy, but that's another story. As with everyone's ordinary emails, government officials will now have to be more careful about what they say when they think it can be kept secret from the American people. On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Sarah Kincaid <[email protected]>wrote: > > If you do the crime then pay time. > > > From: [email protected] > > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:33:19 -0700 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Wikileaks > > > > We all know free speech has limitations- shouting fire within a theater > as an example. Where others are endangered free speech is not protected. > Assange is a total scum-bag! If he disappears from the face of the earth > I'll not cry one tear! > > On Dec 13, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Peter A. Kincaid wrote: > > > > > I wonder how regular Americans like yourself is looking > > > at the Wikileaks situation. What seems to be the > > > consensus there? > > > > > >> From an outside perspective listening to American media > > > the West is taking a big hit on this. It is not from the release > > > of the information though, but on how American officials are > > > reacting to it. The US is supposed to be for free speech and > > > rule of law but are openly calling for the assassination or jailing > > > of Julian Assange without him being charged with any crime. > > > There was a crime committed but it was by an American in their > > > own system. The New York Times published the same data but > > > nobody is trying to assassinate them or bring financial ruin on > > > this newspaper. Some top American officials (Lieberman for > > > one) called for Assange to be brought to the US and charged > > > with treason. Treason is a crime against one's own country. > > > Assange is an Australian and never was an American. > > > > > > All in all, the US is looking real bad as these people seem to > > > think that when someone pisses them off then their laws > > > to get them should apply to the whole world. On the other > > > hand their free speech rights and rule of law rights don't apply. > > > I am hoping that the warped perspective only applies to the > > > American media. > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > P.S. Don't get me wrong in that I certainly don't blame the US > > > governement for trying to punish Wikileaks business wise. > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > > > To join the DNA project, go to: > > > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Bob Arnott > > [email protected] > > (303)741-3468 (h) > > (303) 475-9885 (c) > > > > > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > To join the DNA project, go to: > > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The Kincaid Ancestors of Pennsylvania Timelines are now viewable, either as a document download or as a webpage, see the link below: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kincaide/ The Kincaid vetting post central is also now viewable as a webpage. Best wishes for the Christmas and New Years season from Norman Kincaide Rocky Ford, CO

Some of us want to be related to this guy. Are we? On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Barbara Van Hout <[email protected]>wrote: > What is the source of your statement that Alexander/Anna's son John died in > 1726. Do you know anything about their other sons? > > > Barbara > > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter A. Kincaid > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Edinburgh Kincaids > > > Another Kincaid with ties to Edinburgh was Alexander Kincaid, > goldsmith,of > > Saltcoats, who married Anna Lockhart, daughter of James Lockhart and > > Barbara Wardrope, on Oct. 25, 1696. Was the above John Kincaid, Esq. > > possibly the son of Alexander/Anna? > > > No. Alexander & Anna's John died in 1726. > > Peter > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I think so too! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don W Kincaid" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 > Yes on 190139 matching 36856 & 30078 except for marker 26. Sue is busy > baking today so I am answering. > > I think this demonstrates that Group A is one big family. > > Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mary Lou Clegg > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 8:24 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 > > > Does that mean that he matches 36856 and 30078 who are descended from > James > Gillespie Kincaid at all markers except marker 26? > > Mary Lou > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue Liedtke" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:11 AM > Subject: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 > > > > The last of the results for 190139 have been returned from the lab. He > > matches the Group A Apparent Ancestral Values at all 67 markers except > for > > marker 26 (DYS 460). Where he has a 12 instead of the AAV value of 11, > > which > > puts him in A-1b. > > > > This is quite a surprise as the participant believes descent from James > > Gillespie/Mary Tritt. Vetted descendents of James G do not have this > > variance. They are in A-1a Fayette. Since this is a significant > mutation, > > in > > order to prove descent from James G, the mutation needs to be isolated > > downline from James G. through additional testing and iron-clad > paperwork. > > > > Sue Liedtke > > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > To join the DNA project, go to: > > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It would really be nice if this mutation could be isolated downline from James Gillespie. There is another incidence where paperwork suggests that a participant descends from Joseph of Albemarle but does not have this mutation. If the two participants could show where the variance occurs and have good paperwork, it might indicate that this marker is not as a good predictor as it has looked like in the past i.e. like the marker 4 mutation to 11 it may be more volitile within our project than others. FTDNA says they are both fairly stable alleles so any parallel mutation would be rare. All A-1 are fairly close genetically and seem to be close socially in the locations where the subsets both exist. I suspect that 1b's founding ancestor may have been the father, grandfather or greatgrandfather of Joseph. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Lou Clegg" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:20 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 >I think so too! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don W Kincaid" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 > > >> Yes on 190139 matching 36856 & 30078 except for marker 26. Sue is busy >> baking today so I am answering. >> >> I think this demonstrates that Group A is one big family. >> >> Don >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Mary Lou Clegg >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 8:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 >> >> >> Does that mean that he matches 36856 and 30078 who are descended from >> James >> Gillespie Kincaid at all markers except marker 26? >> >> Mary Lou >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sue Liedtke" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:11 AM >> Subject: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 >> >> >> > The last of the results for 190139 have been returned from the lab. He >> > matches the Group A Apparent Ancestral Values at all 67 markers except >> for >> > marker 26 (DYS 460). Where he has a 12 instead of the AAV value of 11, >> > which >> > puts him in A-1b. >> > >> > This is quite a surprise as the participant believes descent from >> James >> > Gillespie/Mary Tritt. Vetted descendents of James G do not have this >> > variance. They are in A-1a Fayette. Since this is a significant >> mutation, >> > in >> > order to prove descent from James G, the mutation needs to be isolated >> > downline from James G. through additional testing and iron-clad >> paperwork. >> > >> > Sue Liedtke >> > >> > >> > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> > >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> > >> > To join the DNA project, go to: >> > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

> Another Kincaid with ties to Edinburgh was Alexander Kincaid, goldsmith,of > Saltcoats, who married Anna Lockhart, daughter of James Lockhart and > Barbara Wardrope, on Oct. 25, 1696. Was the above John Kincaid, Esq. > possibly the son of Alexander/Anna? No. Alexander & Anna's John died in 1726. Peter

What is the source of your statement that Alexander/Anna's son John died in 1726. Do you know anything about their other sons? Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Peter A. Kincaid Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Edinburgh Kincaids > Another Kincaid with ties to Edinburgh was Alexander Kincaid, goldsmith,of > Saltcoats, who married Anna Lockhart, daughter of James Lockhart and > Barbara Wardrope, on Oct. 25, 1696. Was the above John Kincaid, Esq. > possibly the son of Alexander/Anna? No. Alexander & Anna's John died in 1726. Peter To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes on 190139 matching 36856 & 30078 except for marker 26. Sue is busy baking today so I am answering. I think this demonstrates that Group A is one big family. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Lou Clegg To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 Does that mean that he matches 36856 and 30078 who are descended from James Gillespie Kincaid at all markers except marker 26? Mary Lou ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liedtke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 > The last of the results for 190139 have been returned from the lab. He > matches the Group A Apparent Ancestral Values at all 67 markers except for > marker 26 (DYS 460). Where he has a 12 instead of the AAV value of 11, > which > puts him in A-1b. > > This is quite a surprise as the participant believes descent from James > Gillespie/Mary Tritt. Vetted descendents of James G do not have this > variance. They are in A-1a Fayette. Since this is a significant mutation, > in > order to prove descent from James G, the mutation needs to be isolated > downline from James G. through additional testing and iron-clad paperwork. > > Sue Liedtke > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does that mean that he matches 36856 and 30078 who are descended from James Gillespie Kincaid at all markers except marker 26? Mary Lou ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liedtke" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:11 AM Subject: [KINCAID] New DNA results 190139 > The last of the results for 190139 have been returned from the lab. He > matches the Group A Apparent Ancestral Values at all 67 markers except for > marker 26 (DYS 460). Where he has a 12 instead of the AAV value of 11, > which > puts him in A-1b. > > This is quite a surprise as the participant believes descent from James > Gillespie/Mary Tritt. Vetted descendents of James G do not have this > variance. They are in A-1a Fayette. Since this is a significant mutation, > in > order to prove descent from James G, the mutation needs to be isolated > downline from James G. through additional testing and iron-clad paperwork. > > Sue Liedtke > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The 1841 James is the disabled son of Andrew/Mary Caldwell. The 1818 Andrew is Andrew/Mary Caldwell. Ann Elliot Kincaid's Franklin Co. MO will was made Sept 1, 1831. Her son James died Sept 1, 1820 Franklin Co. MO. In 1833 Andrew Kincaid and the McCalisters, as heirs of James, signed off on 22a of Franklin Co. land that James had sold to Joshua Brock Sr but had never made a deed. You sent the full deed and Ann's will to the list on April 12, 2006. In the will Ann assigns an uncollected debt owed her and her son James to her son William Kincaid. When I wrote 2 generations, I was thinking that William may be the son of Andrew/Mary d 1810 Greenbrier. I still do but there are 2 major problems. 1st a vetted descendent of Andrew/Mary through their son Andrew/Rebecca, has the marker 4 mutation to 11 and there is little hope of isolating this mutation down line from Andrew and controversy about all other sons named in Andrew's will. 2nd William's heirs are not mentioned in Andrew's will. On the + side (all very circumstantial). The naming pattern for William's children, 1st son Andrew, 2nd daughter Mary with other children bearing names relevant to Ann's family. Andrew/Mary sold the land on the Jackson to William (June 1783). They also sold the land next door to John/Alice Dean (1795), whose nephew (son of James/Elizabeth Dean) states that his grandfather was Andrew Kincaid. Andrew/Mary has a male of the right age to be William in his 1777 Little Calf Pasture tax list. A Chalkley mention that William, son of Andrew, supplied the liquor for Robert Graham's 1774 funeral. Many of William/Ann's Jackson River neighbors had connections to the Little Calf Pasture, including Ann Elliot's family. John/Alice states he came to the Jackson River in late 1779 or 1780) shortly before Andrew/Mary bought (1780) the Jackson River land. (They sold the Little Calf Pasture land in 1777). Andrew and William are the only Kincaids on the 1782 tax lists that covers the Jackson River land. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:26 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaids in Brazil >I was thinking that William was the son of John Kincaid/Alice Dean of > Alleghany County. You wrote earlier this year that William Kincaid/Martha > Estill could be traced back two generations, based on the records of > Archibald and William Kincaid in Madison County, Alabama, as heirs of > William Kincaid in > Bath County, VA. > > Probate records of St. Louis, MO are available here, with the Kincaid and > Kinkead spellings. > > The oldest probate record is for Andrew Kinkead, dated 1818. There is a > James Kinkead probate, dated 1841, here. The Administrator was Thomas > Sappington. > Is this the family? > > http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/mojudicial/ > > Barbara > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Liedtke > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:06 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaids in Brazil > > Where did you find that William/Ann was son of a John? > > The naming pattern for the children would suggest that William/Ann Elliot > was the son of (or at least raised by) an Andrew/Mary. Perhaps the same > Andrew who fathered John/Alice Dean and James/Elizabeth Dean. > > In order for Wilfred to be vetted to William/Ann something needs to be > obtained showing that William/Martha Estill is the William referred to. > This > last bit of proof might be in the Missouri probate file of either James or > Ann. > > Sue Liedtke > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 6:58 AM > Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaids in Brazil > > >> Wilfred Kincaid is DNA # 59442 Group A, set 1a, vetted to William >> Kincaid/Martha Estill. It was recently shown by deeds that >> William/Martha >> was a son of William/Ann of Virginia, who was a son of John. >> >> See what Sue wrote here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/kincaid/2010-03/1267747723 >> >>>From the book "Abstracts of the Wills and Inventories of Bath County, >> Virginia, 1791-1842" by Jean Randolph Bruns: >> P. 96 >> >> BATH COUNTY, VA WILL BOOK 2 >> p. 265 >> Power of attorney from Archibald Kincaid of Madison County, Alabama >> Territory, to James Kincaid to convey his interest in land belonging to >> the >> heirs of William Kincaid, Nov. 10, 1818. Wit: Samuel Given Jr., executed >> in >> Alabama Territory. >> >> p. 267 >> Power of attorney by William Kincaid of Madison Co., Alabama Territory, >> to >> Ann Kincaid for the same purpose as above. >> >> >> >> "I had an uncle who was a lawyer in Brazil, but I thought none of his >> family >> remained there after his death. But of course his law firm could have >> retained the name." >> >> Wilfred Kincaid >> >> >> Barbara >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lesley Cains >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:44 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 439 >> >> Thanks everyone >> Yes, Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Chislie had 4 children; >> >> John Kincaid who married Margaret Gaff (as detailed in my vetting post) >> Thomas Kincaid baptised 13-Apr-1766 and died in 1767. >> Elizabeth Kincaid baptised 15-Nov-1767 (IGI has a marriage to a James >> Hardie, but there are no OPR's) >> >> And; >> Alexander Kincaid christened 15-May-1764 and died 17-Feb-1854. >> He married Jean Clark and had six children (Thomas, John, Marion, James, >> Alexander and Thomas); >> >> Thomas Kincaid 1790-1794 = died in childhood so N/A for DNA >> >> John Kincaid 1801-1808 = died in childhood so N/A for DNA >> >> Marion Kincaid 1792 - ?? = Female so N/A for DNA >> >> James Kincaid b.09-Apr-1794, died 7-Jul-1855 at orchid Hill, he married >> 1st >> to Janet Hill 18-Apr-1842, Janet died 1-Jul-1842 (no children), then >> James >> married in June 1843 to Agnes Wilson and they had 4 daughters (Agnes Cook >> Kincaid, Jane Clarke Kincaid, Margaret Kincaid and Mary Kincaid) = all >> Female so N/A for DNA. >> >> Alexander Kincaid b.17-Jul-1798, there is an OPR marriage to Elizabeth >> Smith >> in Polmont 30-Jan-1813, unfortunately there are no parents mentioned on >> this >> OPR, and with the prolific naming of Alexander, I'm hesitant to say >> categorically this is the one. However, this couple did produce nine >> children (Alexander, Margaret, twins Janet & Elizabeth, Agnes, Jean, >> James, >> Janet with youngest child John born 1826 possibly being Major John >> Kincaid-Smith). I purchased the will of an Alexander Kincaid who died in >> 1849 stating he was widow of Elizabeth Smith and a farmer of Bowhouse >> Parish >> of Polmont. This document does not match up regarding all of his >> children's >> names, it mentions his sons Alexander & John only - could be son James >> was >> dead or out of favour ? and only mentioning daughters Margaret, >> Elizabeth, >> Jane (one could presume Jane to be Jean ) & Jessie ?? From the book - >> Stirlingshire Monumental inscriptions, it appears there were three >> tablets >> positioned together (implying close members of a family unit ?) written >> as >> chn are Janet, Agnes & Jas near Alexander & Elizabeth Kincaid. I'm still >> following up on this one. >> >> And, Thomas "Captain' Kincaid b.26-Sep-1796 and died 18-Mar-1884 who >> married Ann Henderson on 2-Jul-1838 did produce 10 children; >> Alexander Kincaid 1839-1892 >> John George Kincaid 1840-1924 >> Janet Kincaid 1842- ? >> Ann Jane Kincaid 1849- ? >> Marion Kincaid 1845-1930 >> James Kincaid 1847-1903 >> Elizabeth Kincaid 1848- ? >> Charles Stewart Kincaid 1851-1924 >> William Clark Kincaid 1854-1908 >> >> So considering these six sons of Captain Thomas Kincaid & Ann Henderson; >> >> 1) Alexander b.30-May-1839, d.29-Jul-1892 238 Calle Son Martin, Buenos >> Ayres, I can find no marriage or children for him. >> http://www.argbrit.org/Saudades/Saudades.htm >> >> 2) John George Kincaid, founder of John G Kincaid & Co, b.3-Oct-1840 and >> died 26-Apr-1924 married Margaret Grierson 8-Sep-1875. >> Probate confirmed by son's James Scott, Randal Grierson & Henderson >> Kincaid >> >> This couple had six sons = >> >> i) Thomas Lennox Kincaid b.1877 and died in Randwick NSW Australia 1940 >> (I >> have his death certificate which records his 2 marriages in Australia and >> that there were no children - the man who called himself Hilton Granville >> Kincaid was actually the son of his 2nd wife, who changed his surname >> from >> Marcosso to Kincaid, let me know if you want details on this one, the >> Australian Newspaper archives are available on Google search). >> >> ii) James Scott Kincaid b.24-Mar-1878 d.30-Jul-1940 >> Married 1st to Constance Isobel Mackellar 01-Feb-1908 in Glasgow, >> Constance >> died in 1929, James remarried in Westminster 1934 to Jean Cumming. >> The probate for James was confirmed by Jean Cumming widow and Randal G >> Kincaid. I have been unable to find records of any children by either >> marriages. >> >> iii) John George Kincaid b.1881, d.4-Aug-1909 >> I have been unable to find records of any marriage or children >> >> iv) Henderson Kincaid b.30-Mar-1884, d.1927 Dorking Surrey >> Married Marion Arnot Sloan 29-Jul-1913 Greenock >> I have been unable to find any children >> >> v) Stewart Grierson Kincaid b.9-Jan-1890, d.5-Dec-1890 >> >> vi) Randal Grierson Kincaid b.28-May-1892, d.1984 Hastings >> Randal married twice, 1st in London 1928 to Frances G Irvine (shipping >> records also show this couple travelling), 2nd to Pauline (Lillie) >> Johnson >> in Battle, Sussex 1939. Again, shipping records show this couple >> travelled >> considerably. No children found >> >> 3) Thomas Kincaid b.29-Apr-1843, died 8-Jan-1903 Buenos Ayres although he >> was 59 yrs old I can find no marriage or children for him. >> >> 4) James Kincaid b.11-Sep-1847, d.18-Oct-1903 Patagones Argentina I can >> find no marriage or children for him, certainly none were mentioned on >> his >> probate which was confirmed by William Clark Kincaid. >> >> 5) Charles Stewart Kincaid b.14-Jan-1851, d. 19-Jan-1924 >> Probate confirmed by James Scott Kincaid & Henderson Kincaid, no mention >> of >> a wife or children, and no records found. >> >> 6) William Clark Kincaid b. 30-Nov-1854, d.17-Dec-17-Dec-1908 I can find >> no >> marriage or children for him, certainly none were mentioned on his >> probate >> confirmed by Charles Stewart Kincaid and Randal Grierson Kincaid >> >> An Interesting article on this family can be found at; >> http://sites.google.com/site/inverclydeshipbuilding/home/inverclyde-engineer >> ing-companies/kincaids >> but sadly it would seem no ongoing DNA. >> >> I do wonder with all the travelling these Kincaid men did, (as well as >> Sir >> John Kincaid, and his nephew Thomas William kincaid) that, well boys will >> be >> boys, perhaps once genetic DNA testing becomes more affordable/popular >> will we uncover some more Kincaids? >> >> ____________________________________________________ >> >> Looking back at John Kincaid & Margaret Gaff who had five children; >> >> Charles Kincaid born 3-May-1791 who died in Paarl South Africa as >> detailed >> in my vetting >> Also >> Alexander born 1789 and died at Sea aged 17 years in 1806 = No DNA >> Margaret Kincaid bap.22-Jul-1795, died 6-Oct-1863 who married Peter >> Hardie >> 8-Mar-1811 >> John Kincaid (Sir John Kincaid) bap.29-Jul-1787, died in Sussex >> 23-Apr-1862. >> Sir John married Louisa Frisbee on 19-Mar-1862 at Notting Hill >> (certificate >> available on Ancestry.com), his will mentions sole executrix as Dame >> Louisa >> Kincaid. No children recorded so no DNA >> And .. >> Thomas Kincaid bap.30-Oct-1785, died 31-Dec-1848 Glasgow, married >> Isabella >> Balloch in 1818. This couple had eleven children (Isabella, John, >> William >> Balloch, Thomas, Alexander, Charles Gaff, Isabella, Margaret, Mary and >> Jane). >> So, looking at the five boys - >> >> i) John Kincaid 1820- >> I have not been able to confirm a death date, the last census return >> found >> was 1881, showing John Kincaid born 1820, single and a cotton merchant >> born >> Stirlingshire Scotland and a boarder in Manchester. >> >> ii) William Balloch Kincaid 1822-1835 (Note; this OPR has no age for the >> William Kincaid, however I have been unable to find any other record for >> him >> at all in any search engine). >> iii) Thomas Kincaid b.05-May-1824, died 1906. Probate confirms census >> that >> Thomas was single, retired merchant and that he lived with his spinster >> sister Margaret who died the same year. The probate was confirmed by >> William >> Clark Kincaid and John Brownrigg Balloch. No marriage records, no >> children). >> >> iv) Alexander Kincaid b.1827, died 1847 >> >> v) Charles Gaff Kincaid 1828-1849 in Devon. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On >> Behalf Of [email protected] >> Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2010 12:37 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 439 >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 (Peter A. Kincaid) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:36:20 -0400 >> From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; >> reply-type=original >> >> These are of the Thomas Kincaid/Elizabeth Chiesly line. Henderson >> is a grandson of Captain Thomas. He was John George Kincaid's >> son. >> >> I believe you missed: >> >> A son to Mr & Mrs Thomas Kincaid born at Quarry Bank, Greenock >> on 14th January 1851 [Greenock Advertiser, Greenock, UK. >> 17 January 1851]. >> >> This would be Charles Stewart Kincaid. Charles Stewart, son of >> Thomas Kincaid and Ann Henderson, was baptized on 28 January 1851 >> at West (Old) Parish, Greenock. >> >> Peter >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:47 AM >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >> >> >>> Lesley, are these Kincaids from your family line? I did not see the >>> first >>> son of Capt. Thomas on this website. Henderson Kincaid may have been a >>> grandson of Capt. Thomas or was he the first son? The marriage date >>> seems >>> too late for him to have been Thomas/Ann's son. >>> >>> KINCAID Captain Thomas Kincaid to Ann, only daughter of late Captain >>> John >>> Henderson, Port >>> Glasgow, at Wood Cottage, Greenock on 2nd July 1838 by Reverend Menzies. >>> (Greenock >>> Advertiser 2.7.1838) see Ann H >>> >>> KINCAID Ann Henderson, wife of Captain Thomas Kincaid, died at >>> Corriebank, >>> 11 Eldon Street >>> Greenock on 2nd January 1883 age 69. (Greenock Advertiser & Greenock >>> Telegraph >>> 3.1.1883) see Elizabeth; Captain Thomas >>> >>> KINCAID Henderson Kincaid, Greenock, to Marion Arnot, elder daughter of >>> William A. Sloan, >>> Larkfield, at St James?, Kilmacolm on 29th July 1913 ? p2. (Greenock >>> Telegraph 30.7.1913) >>> >>> >>> KINCAID James, 4th son of late Thomas Kincaid, Corriebank, Greenock, >>> died >>> at >>> Patagones, >>> Argentine on 18th October 1903 (Greenock Telegraph 13.11.1903) see >>> Thomas >>> >>> KINCAID Thomas, 3rd son of late Thomas Kincaid, Corrie Bank, Greenock >>> died >>> at Buenos Ayres on >>> 8th January 1903 (Greenock Telegraph 10.1.1903) James: Thomas(1884) >>> >>> >>> KINCAID John George, 2nd son of Thomas, Kincaid, Greenock to Margaret >>> Grierson, only daughter of >>> James Scott, at Kirtlington, Oxford on 8th September 1875 (Greenock >>> Telegraph 11.9.1875) >>> >>> KINCAID William Clark Kincaid, commission agent, youngest son of the >>> late >>> Thomas Kincaid, died at >>> Corrie Bank, Greenock on 17th December 1908 (Greenock Telegraph >>> 18.12.1908) >>> see >>> Thomas >>> >>> >>> >> http://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/GetAsset.aspx?id=fAAyADUANQAwAHwAfABGAGEAbABzAG >> UAfAB8ADAAfAA1 >>> >>> Barbara >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lesley Cains >>> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 5:47 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >>> >>> OMG - obvious typo's - message edited/corrected below with CAPITALS >>> with >>> sincere apologies; >>> >>> Yes, I have looked at the 26-Jun-1730 marriage of JAMES & Janet (OPR >>> 479/00 >>> 0080 0081 Falkirk reads James Kincaid son of Thomas in Dalderse to Janet >>> Simpson daughter of Ales Simpson in Kerse). >>> The birth record of their son THOMAS (OPR 470/00 0030 0525 Falkirk >>> 11-Jul-1731 witness Alex Simpson and John Kincaid) But ...... >>> On 24-Jun-1725 (OPR 479/00 0080 0040 Falkirk) a John Kincaid married a >>> Jean >>> Kincaid (John Kincaid in Grange son to John Kincaid in Candie to Jean >>> Kincaid daughter of Thomas Kincaid in Dalderse. >>> The birth record of their son THOMAS (OPR 479/00 0030 0511 Falkirk >>> 17-May-1730 witness John Kincaid and Tom Watts. >>> >>> Both THOMAS Kincaid's born 1730 and 1731 could well be the husband of >>> Elizabeth Chiesly (Their wedding OPR's do not show any parents names) - >>> Both >>> possible fathers of THOMAS Kincaid gave their children similar names, >>> making research difficult. >>> Though it does look like the common link may be Thomas Kincaid (father >>> of >>> both James & Jean) from Dalderse. This would mean the DNA from Thomas in >>> Dalderse could be from the Paternal line if JAMES & Janet were parents >>> or >>> Maternal if John & Jean were. >>> >>> Then, if the parents of THOMAS kincaid born 1730/1731 were John and >>> Jean, >>> that means I'm looking at a paternal line from John Kincaid in Candie >>> ??? >>> I think this would then be a different Kincaid line to Gene from the >>> Kincaid >>> DNA database. >>> >>> Thinking logically, following Scottish tradition of naming the 1st born >>> male >>> child after the child's grandfather, consider John & Jean being the >>> parents, they had seven children, the first born son was Thomas, John's >>> father was named John. The second son was named Alexander, Jean's >>> father >>> was named Thomas (clearly no tradition in this family. >>> James & Janet had 13 children and their eldest was named Thomas, James' >>> father was named Thomas, Janet's father was Alexander and she named her >>> 2nd >>> son Alexander. >>> >>> So to finding other possible DNA samples; Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 >>> other >>> children besides John (daughter Elizabeth and son Thomas who died in >>> infancy >>> - so they are of no help) Their son Alexander (1764-1854) married Jean >>> Clark, they had 6 children (1) Thomas 1790-1794 (2) Marion 1792- ? (3) >>> James >>> 1794- 1855 Orchard Hill married twice, Agnes White and Anne Henderson >>> and >>> only had daughters. (4) Thomas (Captain Thomas Kincaid 1796-1884) >>> married >>> Anne Henderson, his family is well documented via his 2nd son's shipping >>> business John G Kincaid & Co in Renfrewshire, and his other son's >>> travels >>> to >>> Patagonia Buenos Aires. >>> Note, I have not been able to find any of this family line researching >>> their >>> family tree, and have had no contact with anyone who may be able to help >>> (can't really phone up from Australia and say "G'day , sorry to bother >>> you >>> but I think you are related to my son from way back in the 1700's and >>> would >>> you mind just submitting your DNA for me" ...... >>> (5) Alexander Kincaid born 1798, I had thought he married Elizabeth >>> Smith >>> and that it was his son who became Major John Smith-Kincaid, but recent >>> communication with Eric Kincaid's family has now thrown a question about >>> this line with the possibility of 2 Alexander & Elizabeths. (6) John >>> (1801-1808). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>> On >>> Behalf Of [email protected] >>> Sent: Sunday, 12 December 2010 1:37 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >>> >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>> &Elizabeth Chi... (Peter A. Kincaid) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 11:35:22 -0400 >>> From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>> &Elizabeth Chi... >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> Except that the 17-May-1730 and 11-Jul-1731 baptisms she >>> cites were not for a son John but for sons named Thomas. It >>> wasThomas Kincaid who married Elizabeth Chiesly not John >>> Kincaid. >>> >>> Just to be clear, even if a mother was a Kincaid when >>> we do Y-DNA testing it is the father's DNA that is being >>> passed on. There would be no Y-DNA trace of the mother >>> in a participant today. >>> >>> Unfortunately, it is quite likely that the participant has a >>> separate paternal lineage than the ancestor in question >>> because they match no other Kincaid. Until a matching >>> result is found for a participant in another branch of Thomas, >>> one assumes that the participant's Y-DNA is not representative >>> of the Kincaids of Dalderse or Grange or Candie. Legally >>> the participant represents the line but genetic representation is >>> another matter. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:50 AM >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>> &Elizabeth Chi... >>> >>> >>>> WOW - this is a wonderful, thoughtful and scholarly piece of research. >>>> Thank you for sharing this with the List. >>>> >>>> Ruth >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 12/10/2010 8:13:25 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >>>> [email protected] writes: >>>> >>>> Thank you Barbara >>>> >>>> Yes, I have looked at the 26-Jun-1730 marriage of John & Janet (OPR >>>> 479/00 >>>> 0080 0081 Falkirk reads James Kincaid son of Thomas in Dalderse to >>>> Janet >>>> Simpson daughter of Ales Simpson in Kerse). >>>> The birth record of their son John (OPR 470/00 0030 0525 Falkirk >>>> 11-Jul-1731 >>>> witness Alex Simpson and John Kincaid) >>>> But ...... >>>> On 24-Jun-1725 (OPR 479/00 0080 0040 Falkirk) a John Kincaid married a >>>> Jean >>>> Kincaid (in Grange son to John Kincaid in Candie to Jean Kincaid >>>> daughter >>>> of >>>> Thomas Kincaid in Dalderse. >>>> The birth record of their son John (OPR 479/00 0030 0511 Falkirk >>>> 17-May-1730 >>>> witness John Kincaid and Tom Watts. >>>> >>>> Both John Kincaid's born 1730 and 1731 could well be the husband of >>>> Elizabeth Chiesly (Their wedding OPR's do not show any parents names) - >>>> Both possible fathers of John Kincaid gave their children similar >>>> names, >>>> making research difficult. >>>> Though it does look like the common link may be Thomas Kincaid (father >>>> of >>>> James & Jean) from Dalderse. This would mean the DNA from Thomas in >>>> Dalderse >>>> could be from the Paternal line if John & Janet were parents or >>>> Maternal >>>> if >>>> John & Jean were. >>>> >>>> Then, if the parents of John kincaid born 1730/1731 were John and >>>> Jean, >>>> that >>>> means I'm looking at a line from John Kincaid in Candie ??? >>>> I think this would then be a different Kincaid line to Gene from the >>>> Kincaid >>>> DNA database. >>>> >>>> Thinking logically, following Scottish tradition of naming the 1st >>>> born >>>> male >>>> child after the child's grandfather, consider John & Jean being the >>>> parents, they had seven children, the first born son was Thomas, >>>> John's >>>> father was named John. The second son was named Alexander, Jean's >>>> father >>>> was named Thomas (clearly no tradition in this family) >>>> James & Janet had 13 children and their eldest was named Thomas, >>>> James' >>>> father was named Thomas, Janet's father was Alexander and she named >>>> her >>>> 2nd >>>> son Alexander. >>>> >>>> So to finding other possible DNA samples; >>>> Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 other children besides John (daughter >>>> Elizabeth >>>> and son Thomas who died in infancy - so they are of no help) >>>> Their son Alexander (1764-1854) married Jean Clark, they had 6 >>>> children >>>> (1) >>>> Thomas 1790-1794 (2) Marion 1792- ? (3) James 1794- 1855 Orchard Hill >>>> married twice, Agnes White and Anne Henderson and only had daughters. >>>> (4) >>>> Thomas (Captain Thomas Kincaid 1796-1884) married Anne Henderson, his >>>> family >>>> is well documented via his 2nd son's shipping business John G Kincaid >>>> & >>>> Co >>>> in Renfrewshire, and his other son's travels to Patagonia Buenos >>>> Aires. >>>> Note, I have not been able to find any of this family line researching >>>> their >>>> family tree, and have had no contact with anyone who may be able to >>>> help >>>> (can't really phone up from Australia and say "G'day , sorry to bother >>>> you >>>> but I think you are related to my son from way back in the 1700's and >>>> would >>>> you mind just submitting your DNA for me" ...... >>>> (5) Alexander Kincaid born 1798, I had thought he married Elizabeth >>>> Smith >>>> and that it was his son who became Major John Smith-Kincaid, but >>>> recent >>>> communication with Eric Kincaid's family has now thrown a question >>>> about >>>> this line with the possibility of 2 Alexander & Elizabeths. (6) John >>>> (1801-1808). >>>> >>>> Interesting article at >>>> >>> >> http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/corporate_neighbourhood/housing/policies_ >>>> and_strategies/PDFs/dawson/april_2006_newsletter.pdf >>>> >>>> The farmer occupying Dalderse Mill Farm in 1876 were the >>>> Kincaid family and in 1810 it was Thomas McGregor and he >>>> was succeed by Andrew Mackie who died in 1831. >>>> The farmer at Dalderse Farm in 1871 was Robert Buchan >>>> and his farmland appears to be the area that was the >>>> grounds of Dalderse Mansion House, north and west of >>>> Bainsford Burn. >>>> In 1876, about halfway between Dalderse Farmhouse and >>>> the Forth & Clyde Canal on Abbot's Road, a large house >>>> Orchard Hall was built and it had quite large grounds. >>>> The owners were Alex. Vernon Macall, Fleet Paymaster of >>>> H.M. Navy, Southsea, his wife, Jane Clark Kincaid or Macall >>>> and her sister, Margaret Kincaid. However by 1891, Margaret >>>> Walker Forrester was apparently living at Orchard Hall. >>>> >>>> Note - Jane Clark Kincaid was the daughter of James Kincaid and Agnes >>>> Wilson >>>> born in 1846, her father died at Orchard Hill and she had a sister >>>> Margaret. >>>> Back to John Kincaid born 1730/1731, the common grandfather was Thomas >>>> Kincaid of Dalderse to both possible sets of John's parents. >>>> >>>> All suggestions, comments etc gratefully received. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of [email protected] >>>> Sent: Saturday, 11 December 2010 8:37 AM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 429 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Kincaids of Edinburgh in the 1500's (Barbara Van Hout) >>>> 2. Re: Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid and >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy (Barbara Van Hout) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 14:29:11 -0500 >>>> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaids of Edinburgh in the 1500's >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>> >>>> >>> >> http://www.electricscotland.com/history/records/scottishrecordso31scotuoft.p >>>> df >>>> >>>> There is a David Kincaid, wife Elizabeth or Isabel Cockburn, with a >>>> son >>>> John >>>> Kincaid in these records. Also mentioned are Cuthbert Kincaid, James >>>> Kincaid, Sr. & Jr., Stephen Kincaid, and Edward Kincaid, Burgess of >>>> Edinburgh. >>>> >>>> The list is on p. 113 of the above link to the ?Protocol Book of >>>> Gilbert >>>> Grote, 1552-1573.? >>>> >>>> How were the Edinburgh Kincaids related to the James Kincaid family >>>> of >>>> Campsie? >>>> >>>> >>>> Barbara >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:36:40 -0500 >>>> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>>> and Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>> >>>> Sue, I agree with you that it would be good to get another sample from >>>> this >>>> Kincaid family of Falkirk. >>>> >>>> The Family Search website gives James Kincaid (son of Thomas) and >>>> Janet >>>> Simson/Simpson (daughter of Alexander) as the parents of Thomas >>>> Kincaid/Elizabeth Chiesly. Which Thomas was the possible father of >>>> James/Janet who married >>>> Aug. 7, 1730 in Falkirk, Sterling, Scotland according to church >>>> records. >>>> >>>> Barbara >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sue Liedtke >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 5:29 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas >>>> kincaidand >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> >>>> I agree that the paper work is excellant. Lesley has worked very hard >>>> to >>>> get >>>> all her ducks in a row but I am still hesitent to mark the line as >>>> fully >>>> vetted without a close match. The problem is not that this isn't a >>>> true >>>> family line but that a vetted line says that the DNA profile is that >>>> of >>>> the >>>> given ancestor. That is a primary reason for vetting. In this case we >>>> don't >>>> know if this is Thomas's DNA profile or not. There may have been an >>>> unrecorded non-Kincaid paternal event somewhere along the line. >>>> >>>> It is not just that Martyn doesn't match Gene. If he had matched >>>> anyone >>>> in >>>> any Group, even someone in the ungrouped section if it could be shown >>>> that >>>> the ancestral lines did not merge in recent times, then I would not a >>>> see >>>> a >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> All vetted lines have a near DNA match. We held off vetting #168724 >>>> until >>>> a >>>> confirming DNA sample could be tested. Many participants have had to >>>> find >>>> someone for testing in order to isolate a mutation before they could >>>> be >>>> vetted to a specific ancestor. >>>> >>>> I know that Lesley has struck out in trying to get a DNA sample from >>>> the >>>> line of one of Charles' other sons. I am wondering if it is possible >>>> to >>>> trace a line down from John? >>>> >>>> Sue Liedtke >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Don W Kincaid" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:58 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas >>>> kincaidand >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe Lesley has done an excellent job in documenting the lineage >>>> of >>>> Martyn Stuart Kincaid to Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisley. There >>>> are >>>> not >>>> many who are documented as well as this one. One of the other well >>>> documented ones is for Gene Kincaid, #23547 who shows back to Falkirk >>>> Parish >>>> in Scotland like Martyn shows so I understand Sue's apprehension on >>>> vetting >>>> Martyn since his dna does not match with 23547. With the excellent >>>> documentation for Martyn, I believe we should show him as vetted. One >>>> big >>>> reason I believe we should vet Martyn is that there could easily be 2 >>>> lines >>>> of Kincaid's in Falkirk Parish just as we have found 2 different lines >>>> of >>>> Kincaid's living next to each other in the Colonies in several >>>> instances. >>>> If >>>> we did not have another participant showing to Falkirk Parish, would >>>> anyone >>>> have an objection to Martyn's lineage being vetted? I doubt anyone >>>> would, >>>> given the excellent documentation. If vetted, I would not object to >>>> having >>>> a >>>> note stating that dna results have not confirmed Martyn's lineage to >>>> Falkirk >>>> or a similar statement. >>>> >>>> Don, # 1427 >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Sue Liedtke >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:40 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas >>>> kincaidand >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> >>>> >>>> This is the 2nd call for comments on the post seeking to vet #186057 >>>> to >>>> Thomas/Elizabeth Chiesly. I have asked that comments be directed to >>>> the >>>> paper trail as a separate entity from the DNA as I have a question as >>>> to >>>> the >>>> advisability of vetting a line without a confirming DNA sample from >>>> the >>>> furthest ancestor. >>>> >>>> Normally it takes 2 identical samples from the lines of different sons >>>> of >>>> a >>>> given ancestor to prove the DNA of that ancestor. In most cases we can >>>> get >>>> around this because we have identical DNA from other Kincaids whose >>>> ancestors pre-date the given ancestor or could be descended from the >>>> same >>>> ancestor by a different son. In cases where there is an unexpected >>>> significant mutation, that mutation needs to be isolated before the >>>> line >>>> can >>>> be vetted. As an example:49289 has an unexpected mutation to 9 at >>>> marker >>>> 15. >>>> This is a significant mutation as it is used to separate A-2 Kincaids >>>> from >>>> A-1 Kincaids, however no other Kincaid (and there are many >>>> participants) >>>> in >>>> the immediate geographic region has this mutation. #49289 could not be >>>> vetted until #135736 who does not have the mutation could be vetted to >>>> a >>>> common ancestor (note other unvetted lines from this ancestor do not >>>> have >>>> the mutation). >>>> >>>> In the case of #186057 we do not have identical DNA from anyone else >>>> in >>>> the >>>> project. While Thomas/Elizabeth Chiesly may very well be represented >>>> by >>>> #186057's DNA, there is also the possibility that an undisclosed >>>> non-Kincaid >>>> paternal event occurred somewhere along the line. This needs to be >>>> ruled >>>> out >>>> with confirming DNA. >>>> >>>> Non the less, it would be of immense value to know if the paper >>>> research >>>> is >>>> sound i.e if the DNA were confirmed could this line be vetted. This >>>> would >>>> facilitate finding a participant from a different son's line to be >>>> tested >>>> for confirming DNA. Please look over the paper trail and comment. >>>> >>>> Sue Liedtke >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Lesley Cains" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:31 AM >>>> Subject: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas kincaid >>>> and >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Vetting Martyn Stuart Kincaid to Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisley >>>> Martyn Kincaid DNA kit #186057 >>>> Researcher : Lesley Sharon Cains, mother of Martyn Stuart Kincaid and >>>> ex >>>> wife of Alan John Kincaid >>>> >>>> ___________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Martyn Stuart Kincaid 'Living' b.1987, Lilydale,Victoria Australia not >>>> married. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth certificate (original available) for Martyn Stuart >>>> Kincaid; >>>> parents listed as Alan John Kincaid and Lesley Sharon Kincaid nee >>>> Cains. >>>> >>>> Personal knowledge; I know my son is the son of Alan John Kincaid. >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Alan John Kincaid 'Living" b.1957 Carlton Victoria Australia m Lesley >>>> Sharon >>>> Cains in 1986 at Numurkah Victoria Australia (certificate available). >>>> >>>> Son of Bertram Langley Kincaid and Dorothy Dawn Nash. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth certificate for Alan John Kincaid listing parents as >>>> Bertram Langley Kincaid and Dorothy Dawn Nash. >>>> >>>> Personal knowledge; I personally know the parents and siblings of Alan >>>> John >>>> Kincaid all of whom acknowledge him as the son of Bertram Langley >>>> Kincaid. >>>> >>>> The parents and 3 of the 4 siblings of Alan John Kincaid are all still >>>> living. >>>> >>>> The siblings of Alan John Kincaid are Robert Charles Kincaid, Karen >>>> Eileen >>>> Kincaid, Helen Jean Kincaid and Heather Kincaid (1963-1963). >>>> _____________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Bertram Langley Kincaid 'Living' b.1930 Daylesford, Victoria Australia >>>> m >>>> Dorothy Dawn Nash 16 October 1955 Camberwell Victoria Australia. >>>> >>>> Son of Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters (both >>>> deceased). >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth certificate for Bertram Langley Kincaid listing his >>>> parents >>>> as Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters, as confirmed >>>> by >>>> Bertram Langley Kincaid who resides in Victoria Australia. >>>> >>>> Australian death certificate's (copies available) for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Kincaid (nee Waters) listing Bertram Langley >>>> Kincaid >>>> as their son, and also Bertram's siblings John (dec'd), Eileen >>>> (dec'd), >>>> Valma and Arthur David. >>>> >>>> Australian Electoral Roll records 1954 showing Bertram Langley Kincaid >>>> living at the home of Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita >>>> Kincaid >>>> with his siblings Arthur and John. >>>> >>>> Springvale Victoria Australia crematorium records for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Kincaid. Website look up; >>>> >>>> >>> >> http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php?page=search&s_res=GO&cid=330&Given_N >>>> ames=&Surname=kincaid&Surname_ex=&hw_num=100 >>>> >>>> Personal knowledge; I personally knew both parents of Bertram Langley >>>> Kincaid and attended their funeral services. >>>> I personally knew both Valma Jean Kincaid and Arthur David Kincaid >>>> (both >>>> now >>>> deceased) siblings of Bertram Langley Kincaid. >>>> The family also told me of Eileen Hilda Kincaid, sister of Bertram >>>> Langley >>>> Kincaid who married William St Dennis and migrated to the United >>>> States, >>>> her >>>> social security death index ssn 037-20-3410 Rhode Island date of death >>>> August 1976, and California passenger & Crew list showing Eileen St >>>> Denis >>>> & >>>> William St Denis arriving in California 12 Sep 1946, with Eileen on an >>>> Australian passport with notation of her maiden name confirms what the >>>> family have related to me. >>>> Alan John Kincaid also told of Bertram's deceased brother John Charles >>>> Kincaid who died alone following an accident in his home in 1978 as >>>> proven >>>> by his obituary and Springvale Crematorium records. >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid b. 7 January 1902 Daylesford Victoria >>>> Australia m Sarah Rita Waters 24 March 1922 Mildura Victoria Australia >>>> (certificate available). >>>> >>>> Son of Charles Langley Kincaid and Elizabeth Nelson. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth record #2384 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid DOB as 7 January 1902 listing his parents as Charles Kincaid >>>> (a >>>> Miner aged 42) and Elizabeth Kincaid, formerly Nelson (aged 42) living >>>> at >>>> Eganstown Victoria, who were married 13 April 1891. Siblings shown on >>>> the >>>> certificate are Grace Cowling Kincaid, Alice Kincaid, Eliza Kincaid, >>>> Clarice >>>> Kincaid and Helena Kincaid (dec'd). >>>> >>>> Australian marriage record #558 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters married on 24 March 1922 at St >>>> Margaret's >>>> Vicarage Mildura, listing Arthur's father as Charles Langley Kincaid, >>>> a >>>> Miner as his father and Elizabeth Nelson as his mother. >>>> >>>> Australian death record #12575/83 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid date of death 6 June 1983 at Heatherton Victoria Australia, >>>> retired >>>> aged 81 years and born in Daylesford Victoria. Fathers name showing >>>> as >>>> Charles Kincaid and mother as Elizabeth Kincaid (maiden name Nelson), >>>> certified by his wife Sarah (known as Rita) Kincaid. This certificate >>>> also >>>> shows Arthur was 20 years old when he married Sarah Rita Waters in >>>> Mildura >>>> and that he was still married at the time of his death, children >>>> listed >>>> as >>>> Arthur aged 61 yrs, Valma aged 59 yrs, Eileen (deceased), John >>>> (deceased), >>>> Bertram aged 53 years. >>>> >>>> Australian Electoral Roll's for the years 1924, 1931, 1936, 1937 and >>>> 1949 >>>> detailing his address and family members (available to view on >>>> Ancestry.com). >>>> >>>> An on-line Australian newspaper Archive record detailing the death of >>>> his >>>> sister Clarice Leona Kincaid and recording that her body was identified >>>> by >>>> her brother Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid reads; "Found dead in the >>>> bush, >>>> died from exposure, exhaustion and natural causes (refer to inquest & >>>> newpaper articles), VPRS 24/P Unit 1031 File 92 Clarice Leona Kincaid >>>> died >>>> on or about 28 Dec 1922 from exhaustion during the first stages of >>>> labour. >>>> Body identified by brother - Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid >>>> (stonemason) >>>> residing at Victoria park Daylesford. Arthur Angove aged 16 from >>>> Daylesord >>>> was one of those that found her along with Frank Stevens and James >>>> Langdon >>>> who were bird nesting on Angus Hill, on the Cornish Reef". (ref; >>>> >>>> >>> >> http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1871036?searchTerm=clarice+kinc >>>> aid). >>>> >>>> Springvale Victoria Crematorium records showing that he was cremated 8 >>>> June >>>> 1983. >>>> >>>> Personal knowledge; I personally knew Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid >>>> and >>>> visited his home with Alan John Kincaid, I also attended his funeral >>>> service. I identified the address' given in the Australian Electoral >>>> Roll's >>>> from my visits to his home, and the earlier address' from when I took >>>> Sarah >>>> Rita Kincaid back To Daylesford and she showed me her old home. Sarah >>>> Rita >>>> Kincaid also took me to her own parents' grave, explaining that Arthur >>>> Charles Nelson Kincaid was a stonemason by trade and made her parents >>>> tombstone and many others in the Kyneton & Daylesford area. Sarah >>>> told >>>> me >>>> they had named their son Bertram Langley Kincaid after Arthur's father >>>> Charles Langley Kincaid. >>>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Charles Langley Kincaid b.21 Apr 1859 Mt Egerton Victoria Australia m >>>> Elizabeth Nelson 30 April 1891 Daylesford Victoria (certificate >>>> available). >>>> >>>> Son of Thomas William Kincaid and Eliza Rae. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth record #154 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>>> Kincaid >>>> DOB as 21 April 1859 at Mount Egerton Victoria, details show father as >>>> Thomas William Kincaid a Miner in aged 36 years and born Cape of Good >>>> Hope, >>>> marriage details on this record for Thomas William Kincaid given as >>>> "1845 >>>> Stepney London", other children "Thomas Kincaid and Alconda Degney >>>> Kincaid". >>>> Mother as Eliza Kincaid formerly Rae, aged 31 years from Waterford >>>> Ireland >>>> and signed by Thomas William Kincaid, father. >>>> >>>> Australian marriage record #4032 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>>> Kincaid and Eliza Nelson 30 April 1891 at the Bible Christian >>>> parsonage >>>> Daylesford. This record details Charles aged as 32 years as son of >>>> Thomas >>>> William Kincaid a Miner, and Elizabeth Rae. >>>> >>>> Australian death record #1813 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>>> Kincaid, >>>> a Miner died 28 May 1931 at the District Hospital Daylesford aged 72 >>>> years, >>>> his parents are given as Thomas William Kincaid and Elizabeth Kincaid >>>> formerly Rae. It shows Charles was buried on 30 May 1931 at Daylesford >>>> cemetery and that he was born in Eganstown and had lived in Victoria >>>> his >>>> whole life. His children are listed as Grace 39 years, Alice 38 years, >>>> Myrtle 35 years, Clarice (deceased) and Arthur 29 years. >>>> >>>> Australian Electoral Roll's for the years 1914, 1924 and 1928 >>>> detailing >>>> his >>>> address and family members. >>>> >>>> Obituary; (1) THE DAYLESFORD ADVOCATE Friday, May 29, 1931 FUNERAL >>>> NOTICE >>>> KINCAID -The friends of the late Mr. Charles Langley Kincaid are >>>> respectfully informed that his remains will be interred in the >>>> Dayiesford >>>> Cemetery TOMORROW (Saturday) May 30. The Funeral is appointed to leave >>>> the >>>> mortuary parlour of R. F. Verey at 1.30 pm. R. F. Verey, Funeral >>>> Director. >>>> Phone 245. (2) THE DAYLESFORD ADVOCATE Tuesday 2 June, 1931 OBITUARY >>>> CHARLES >>>> LANGLEY KINCAID The death occurred on Thursday morning last, of Mr >>>> Charles >>>> Langley Kincaid, after a long illness, at the age of 72 years. The >>>> late >>>> Mr. >>>> Kincaid was born in Eganstown district, and had resided in this >>>> locality >>>> all >>>> his life. For many years he was connected to the mining industry. Mrs. >>>> Kincaid and an adult family of three daughters and one son survive to >>>> mourn >>>> their loss, one daughter having predeceased Mr. Kincaid some years >>>> ago. >>>> The >>>> funeral took place on Saturday afternoon, and was largely attended. >>>> The >>>> casket was carried by Messrs. M. Dickson, W. Spear, W. Burnett >>>> (sons-in-law), C. Nelson (nephew), A. Dickson and J. Dickson. Rev. S. >>>> D. >>>> Yarrington conducted the service at the graveside, and the funeral >>>> arrangements were in the hands of Mr. R. F. Verey. >>>> >>>> Grave; Grave C of E 4 C 6 In loving memory of Charles Langley Kincaid, >>>> Elizabeth Kincaid, and Grace Cowling Dickson died 18 Feb, 1982. >>>> >>>> The personal knowledge of his grandson Bertram Langley Kincaid, who >>>> has >>>> confirmed the above for me. >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Thomas William Kincaid b.2 August 1823 Cape of Good Hope, South Africa >>>> m >>>> (i) >>>> Elizabeth Catherine Barrett on 18 May 1845 Stepney London (certificate >>>> available). Elizabeth Catherine Barratt died 13 March 1850. This >>>> marriage >>>> produced one child, Thomas Hardie Kincaid b. 16 February 1849 >>>> (certificate >>>> available) Rotherhithe England and died 3 February 1929 at Rotherhithe >>>> London UK. >>>> >>>> Thomas William Kincaid b.2 August 1823 Cape of Good Hope, South Africa >>>> m >>>> (ii) Eliza Rae on 16 Nov 1850 Victoria Australia >>>> >>>> Son of Charles Kincaid and Hillegonda Sophia Row. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Beaufort West, South Africa Baptism register on microfilm number 5-39, >>>> "Child Thomas William born 2 August 1823, baptised 17 August 1823. >>>> Parents >>>> Charles Kincaid, Hilegonda [sic] Sophia Roow [sic]. Witnesses Joseph >>>> Cleaver, Susanna Frederica Roow [sic], Willem Roow[sic], Anna >>>> Roow[sic]". >>>> (photograph of document ordered from GISA and available November >>>> 2010). >>>> >>>> Beaufort West South Africa Baptism record, born 2 August 1823, >>>> baptised >>>> 17 >>>> August 1823 as per the SA Genealogies by Lombard & Hesse, page 277 >>>> (this >>>> record purchased from GISA, Genealogy Institute of South Africa) >>>> and >>>> also >>>> provided by contact with Joy Roy (a descendant of Thomas William >>>> Kincaid >>>> and professional researcher), Heather McAllister and Tessa King >>>> (Administrators for Ancestry24.com). >>>> >>>> Details taken from the - UK Marriage record for Thomas William Kincaid >>>> (of >>>> full age, a Mariner Chief Officer - son of Charles Kincaid, a sadler) >>>> to >>>> Elizabeth Catherine Barratt (with consent of parents) on 18 May 1845 >>>> at >>>> St >>>> Thomas' Church Stepney UK, witnessed by William Brown & Sophia Barratt >>>> (copy >>>> available). >>>> >>>> Taken from the - UK Birth record (copy available) of Thomas Hardie >>>> Kincaid >>>> 16 February 1849, father given as Thomas William Kincaid (Master >>>> Mariner) >>>> mother as Elizabeth Catherine Kincaid formerly Barratt. >>>> >>>> Taken from the - Australian Death record #14665 (copy on available) 14 >>>> December 1903 at Leonards Hill Victoria Australia, Thomas William >>>> Kincaid >>>> aged 80 years. His father was recorded as John Kincaid, profession >>>> unknown, >>>> information on this record was detailed as being provided by his son >>>> John >>>> Rae Kincaid. He was buried on 16 December 1903 at Eganstown Public >>>> cemetery, >>>> and shows he had lived 50 years in Victoria. Place of birth given as >>>> Cape >>>> Town, Cape Colony South Africa, married to Eliza Rae (not living). >>>> The >>>> children of Thomas William Kincaid are listed as Charles 44 years, >>>> Janet >>>> 42 >>>> years, John 40 years, Margaret 38 years, Annie 36 years, Isabella 34 >>>> years, >>>> Eliza 32 years, Thomas William 30 years and Alconda (deceased). >>>> >>>> The Australian birth records (copies available) for the Children of >>>> Thomas >>>> William Kincaid & Eliza Rae for Charles Langley 1859, John Rae 1863, >>>> Annie >>>> Eliza 1868, Elizabeth 1873, Thomas William 1875 all detailing the >>>> father >>>> and >>>> his place of birth as The cape of Good Hope. >>>> >>>> The birth certificate's for Thomas William Kincaid's children; John >>>> Rae >>>> Kincaid in 1863 details Thomas William Kincaid & Eliza Rae married in >>>> Melbourne 1851. On Annie Eliza's record it details 'Melbourne', on >>>> Elizabeth's as 16 November 1850 and on Thomas' 1875 birth record as >>>> 26 >>>> November 1850. >>>> >>>> Australian death record (copy available) for daughter Alconda Kincaid >>>> aged >>>> 14 years 27 May 1870 in Eganstown details her parents as Thomas >>>> William >>>> Kincaid and Eliza Kincaid, and that Alconda was born in Newstead, >>>> Melbourne >>>> Victoria Australia. >>>> >>>> The Australian marriage certificate for daughter Janet Hardie Kincaid >>>> (copy >>>> available) 25 October 1887 shows her parents as Thomas William Kincaid >>>> and >>>> Eliza Kincaid nee Rae, on her death record in 1933 (copy available) >>>> her >>>> parents were given as John Kincaid (a Miner) and Eliza Kincaid >>>> formerly >>>> Rae >>>> as provided by S Brown, authorised agent >>>> >>>> When youngest son Thomas William Kincaid died in 1959 at aged 84 his >>>> parents >>>> were listed as unknown. >>>> >>>> Australian 1903 Electoral Roll showing Thomas William Kincaid living >>>> at >>>> Leonards Hill Victoria, occupation Miner. >>>> Australian Rate Books - Mt Franklin Victoria from 1872 - 1902 >>>> >>>> Australian Newspaper Archive - Daylesford Advocate Thursday 17 >>>> December >>>> 1903 >>>> - The late Mr Kincaid; The remains of Mr T W Kincaid were interred in >>>> the >>>> Eganstown Public Cemetery yesterday. The funeral started from his late >>>> residence at Leonard's Hill and comprised of mourners in eight >>>> conveyances >>>> and seven horsemen. The bearers were Messers Kramer, Aldridge, >>>> McKidrew >>>> (2), >>>> Ladigus and Blackwell, Mr Taylor read the burial service. Messer's >>>> Verey >>>> Bros had charge of the mortuary arrangements. >>>> _____________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Charles Kincaid b.3 May 1791 m (i) Hillegonda Sophia Row on 3 August >>>> 1818 >>>> Cape of Good Hope (Hillegonda born 1800, died 4 February 1831). >>>> >>>> Charles Kincaid b.3 May 1791 m (ii) Christina Johanna Marian Sporkman, >>>> widow >>>> of John Herbert 12 October 1846 Cape of Good Hope (copy available). >>>> >>>> Son of John Kincaid and Margaret Gaff >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Scottish OPR record 487/0010 0356 (copy on available) detailing "John >>>> Kincaid and Margaret Gaff, their son named Charles was born 3 May 1791 >>>> and >>>> baptised 8 May, witness' Thomas Kincaid and John Gibb". >>>> >>>> Website - Old Polmont Church (note - please note that not all details >>>> on >>>> this website are accurate eg Sir John Kincaid given as never married, >>>> he >>>> in >>>> fact married Louisa Frisbee a month before his death). refer >>>> www.polmontold.org.uk/hist1845part06.html >>>> >>>>>From the list of passengers arriving in South Africa on board the Ship >>>> 'The >>>> Brilliant' in 1817, Charles Kincaid was part of a group of Scottish >>>> Artisans >>>> organised by Benjamin Moodie. >>>> >>>>>From the Book - British Residents at the Cape 1795-1819, by David >>>>>Phillip >>>> page 222, in part reads - "Kincaid, Charles, saddler single arrived 4 >>>> June >>>> 1817 Table Bay, in Brilliant ex Downs under Moodies direction. 2 >>>> August >>>> 1817 >>>> has commenced business (saddle, cap and harness maker). 3 August 1818 >>>> marriage of CK of Falkirk, Stirling aged 27 to Hillegonda Sophia d,o, >>>> Robt. >>>> Row aged 18. 6 June 1819 baptised their son John Robert. 18 March 1821 >>>> baptised of their son Charles Langley". >>>> >>>>>From the National Archives of South Africa - in 1818 'memorials >>>>>received, >>>> Charles Kincaid requesting permission to remain in the Colony. >>>> >>>>>From the National Archives of South Africa - Charles Kincaid aged 27, >>>> birthplace Falkirk Stirling married at The English Church to >>>> Hillegonda >>>> Sophia Row aged 18 born at The Cape on 3 August 1818 as published in >>>> The >>>> Capetown Gazette. >>>> >>>> Marriage certificate (copy available) Charles Kincaid (widower, >>>> occupation >>>> Sadler) married in Paarl South Africa to Christina Johanna Maria >>>> Sporkman >>>> (widow). >>>> >>>> Death certificate #2505 (copy available) Charles Kincaid born in >>>> Scotland, >>>> married died on 5 March 1866. Lists the children of his 2nds wife's >>>> previous marriage and John Robert Kincaid as son with Hillegonda >>>> Sophia. >>>> >>>>>From the National Archives of South Africa - Charles Kincaid will >>>>>filed >>>> 1866. >>>> >>>>>From the South African Commercial Advisor - (1) 1826, a daughter of Mr >>>>>C >>>> Kincaid baptised Jessy, (2) 1829 a son of Mr Charles Kincaid baptised >>>> Alexander Row, (3) 1831 February 4, Sophia Kincaid wife of Mr C >>>> Kincaid >>>> died >>>> aged 30 years and 6 months. >>>> >>>> Reference; book - "This I'll Defend, The Story of the Kincaid's by >>>> Bill >>>> Kincaid" >>>> >>>> Reference; pamphlet obtained in full from The National Archives of >>>> South >>>> Africa "The Kincaid Family in South Africa" by JJ Scheepers and >>>> confirmed >>>> by >>>> Leonard Kincaid who resides in South Africa son of Joy Scheepers & >>>> Donald >>>> Kincaid descendants of John Robert Kincaid b.1819 at the Cape of Good >>>> Hope. >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> John Kincaid b.10 June 1762 Polmont Stirlingshire Scotland m Margaret >>>> Gaff >>>> (marriage on OPR's shows 20 Nov 1784 Bothkennar & 16 Dec 1784 as the >>>> Proclamation Polmont for both parties) >>>> >>>> Son of Thomas Kincaid and Elizabeth Chiesly (Cheesley) >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Scottish OPR Baptism record 487/0010 0084 13 June 1762, "Thomas >>>> Kincaid >>>> & >>>> Elizabeth Chiesly their son named John was born 10 June and baptised >>>> 13 >>>> June, witness' Alexander and Robert Kincaid and John Clark". (Copy >>>> Available) >>>> >>>> Scottish OPR marriage record 473/000010/0260 20th November 1784 >>>> marriage >>>> bans, naming John Kincaid if Dalbeath. "(copy available). >>>> >>>> Falkirk Churchyard Grave 184, John Kincaid death 11 February 1794 aged >>>> 33 >>>> years. >>>> >>>> Reference; book - Mitchell, John Fowler. Monumental inscriptions (pre >>>> 1855) >>>> in East Stirlingshire. Edinburgh: Scottish Genealogy Society, 1972]. >>>> "John Kincaid, 1st son of Thos Kincaid & Eliz Chislie, age 33, at >>>> Carronflats on 11 February 1794; John's wife, Margt Gaff, age 85, on 5 >>>> February 1844; John's 1st son, Thos Kincaid, age 63, at Glasgow on 31 >>>> December 1848; John's youngest son, Alex Kincaid, age 17, having >>>> drowned >>>> by >>>> shipwreck on coast of Durham on 27 January 1806; John's 2nd son, John >>>> Kincaid, 76, at Hastings on 23 April 1862, (having entered the army in >>>> 1809 >>>> & served throughout the Peninsular war with Rifle Brigade, knighted >>>> 1852, >>>> senior exon of HM Royal Bodyguard & for many years government >>>> inspector >>>> of >>>> prisons & factories for Scotland); John's (Margt Gaff) only daughter, >>>> Margt >>>> Kincaid, age 71, widow of the late Peter Hardie, merchant in Leith, on >>>> 6 >>>> October 1863; and John's 3rd son, Charles Kincaid, age 73, at Pearl >>>> Cape >>>> of >>>> Good Hope on 5 March 1866" (Note - Information provided by both Peter >>>> A >>>> Kincaid, Canada and also Ann Taylor, nee Kincaid England UK and >>>> confirmed >>>> verbally that this Book available from the National Library of >>>> Australia, >>>> Canberra Australia, copies of relevant extracts pending). >>>> >>>> Reference; made available courtesy of Peter A Kincaid, Canada. >>>> "John Kincaid, son of Thomas Kincaid, farmer, Newlands, as heir to >>>> Alexander >>>> Chiesly, Tenant, Newlands, his grandfather, seised, Oct. 18. 1788, -in >>>> part >>>> of Bothkennar called Dalbeith, with Ferry Boat & fishing in Carron, & >>>> Teinds, par. Bothkennar; -on Pr. Chan. Oct. 7. 1788. P.R. 30. 184. >>>> [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, no. 1394. >>>> Registered >>>> 20 October 1788]". >>>> "John Kincaid of Dalbaith, as heir to Elizabeth Chiesly, his mother, >>>> seised, >>>> Oct. 18. 1788, -in part of Bothkennar called Dalbaith, with Ferry >>>> Boat, >>>> and >>>> Fishing in Carron, par. Bothkennar; -on Pr. Cl. Con. by himself, Oct. >>>> 18. >>>> 1788. P.R. 30.185. [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, >>>> vol. >>>> 1, >>>> no. 1395. Registered 20 October 1788]". >>>> "John Kincaid of Dalbaith, gets Resig. ad Rem. Oct. 18. 1788, -of part >>>> of >>>> Bothkennar called Dalbaith, with Ferry Boat, & Fishing in Carron, par. >>>> Bothkennar; -on Proc. resig. by himself, Oct. 18. 1788. P.R. 30. 186. >>>> [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, no. 1396. >>>> Registered >>>> 20 October 1788]". >>>> "The Trustees of John Kincaid of Dalbaith, seised, Mar. 22. 1800, -in >>>> an >>>> Oxengate of land of Bothkennar called Dalbaith with the Ferry Boat and >>>> part >>>> of the fishing of the Water of Carron, and Teinds; (&2 Oxengates of >>>> land >>>> of >>>> the lands of Bothkennar in warrandice), par. Bothkennar; -under burden >>>> of >>>> ?50 each to John, Alexander, and Charles Kincaid, and 500 Merks Scots >>>> to >>>> Margaret Kincaid, younger children of the said John Kincaid, &c; -on >>>> Disp. >>>> & >>>> Settlement by the said John Kincaid, & Margaret Gaff, his spouse, >>>> Sept. >>>> 6. >>>> 1793. P.R. 36.35. [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. >>>> 1, >>>> no. >>>> 3904. Registered 20 May 1800]". >>>> >>>> Reference; book - "This I'll Defend, The Story of the Kincaid's by >>>> Bill >>>> Kincaid" >>>> >>>> Reference; Book - "Adventures of The Rifle Brigade" by sibling Sir >>>> John >>>> Kincaid detailing his family, father John Kincaid. >>>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Thomas Kincaid b. circa 1731 Falkirk Scotland m Elizabeth Chiesly 12 >>>> July >>>> 1761. >>>> >>>> Son of (unknown - possible either of James Kincaid & Janet Simson, or >>>> John >>>> Kincaid & Jean Kincaid) >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Marriage record - Scottish OPR Marriage Ban 479/00008 00237 10 July >>>> 1761 >>>> Falkirk, and Scottish OPR Marriage proclamation Polmont 487/00002 0016 >>>> (copies available) this record names Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth >>>> Chielsy >>>> but >>>> neither of their parents. >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Other resources used; >>>> Ancestry.com record search for BDM records, Census returns, travel >>>> records, >>>> Australian Electoral Rolls. >>>> Ancestry24.com for South African research re BDM's, Wills and >>>> application >>>> to >>>> remain in the Colony. >>>> Ancestry.Co.ZA to view & purchase South African death records. >>>> Scotslands People (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) record search for OPR >>>> records >>>> re BDM's, Census & Wills. >>>> GISA (Genealogical Institute of South Africa) for South African family >>>> history records. >>>> NAAIRS for South African records re BDM's, Wills and application to >>>> remain >>>> in the Colony etc. >>>> Book - British Residents at The Cape 1795-1819 by David Phillip. >>>> On-Line Book - Extracts of Marriages at The Cape of Good Hope >>>> 1806-1821. >>>> On-Line Book - Extracts of Baptisms at The Cape of Good Hope 1806-1821 >>>> 192.com for UK contacts. >>>> Springvale Crematorium Records for confirming Australian deaths. >>>> The Australian National Archives. >>>> The Australian National Library. >>>> The Victorian Government Public Records Office. >>>> The Victorian Registry of Birth, Deaths & Marriages. >>>> The Daylesford Family History Society. >>>> The Australian WW2 Nominal Roll. >>>> The Kincaid family living in Australia. >>>> Trove - Australian newspapers on line. >>>> London newspaper archives on line. >>>> Edinburgh newspaper archives on line. >>>> The Genealogical Society of South Africa historical newspapers on >>>> line. >>>> Google. >>>> >>>> Note - Australia does not have census returns as these are not >>>> archived >>>> after the government has collated the data it requires. >>>> >>>> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Footnote's - >>>> >>>> John Kincaid & Margaret Gaff had 5 children; >>>> Son Thomas, a Merchant baptised 30 October 1785, died 31 December >>>> 1848. >>>> Married Isabella Balloch 17 January 1818 and produced 5 sons and 5 >>>> daughters >>>> per the OPR records. OPR & BDM records show that 4 of the sons died >>>> without >>>> marrying, and John living in Lancashire unmarried aged 60 yrs in 1881. >>>> Son John Kincaid baptised 29 July 1787, died 23 April 1862. Married >>>> Louisa >>>> Frisbee 19 March 1862, no children. >>>> Son Alexander christened 7 June 1789, died in a shipwreck 27 January >>>> 1806. >>>> Never married, no children. >>>> Son Charles as detailed above in vetting. >>>> Daughter Margaret christened 22 July 1795, died 6 October 1863. >>>> Married >>>> Peter Hardie 8 March 1811 and produced 4 sons and 1 daughter. Both >>>> her >>>> son's Thomas Kincaid Hardie and John Hardie travelled to Australia in >>>> search >>>> of gold. Thomas married Janet Hoyle in Victoria 1848, returning to the >>>> UK >>>> to >>>> 'live off his own means' as a 'retired Australian Squatter'. John >>>> married >>>> Elizabeth Hoyle in Victoria Australia 1841, this couple also returned >>>> to >>>> the >>>> UK. >>>> >>>> Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisly's son Alexander b.1764 married Jean >>>> Clark. This couple had 6 children, their son Thomas b.1796 was >>>> 'Captain >>>> Thomas Kincaid - Shipmaster' who married Ann Henderson. >>>> Two of Thomas & Ann's sons died overseas - Alexander b.1839 died 1892 >>>> in >>>> Buenos Ayres and James b.1903 died in 1903 Patagonia Argentina. Their >>>> 2nd >>>> eldest of their son's , John George Kincaid born in 1840 founded J G >>>> Kincaid Shipping in Inverclyde. John G Kincaid married Margaret >>>> Grierson, >>>> their eldest son Thomas Lennox Kincaid b.1877 travelled to Australia >>>> settling in NSW. He married there in 1936 and died in December 1940, >>>> (His >>>> death certificate is available). His wife's son by her 1st marriage, >>>> Hilton >>>> Grenville Marcuso who had links to the notorious Kings Cross criminal >>>> underworld, took the Kincaid surname, and died in NSW Australia in >>>> 1975. >>>> >>>> Hillegonda Sophia Row, wife of Charles Kincaid - was born at The Cape >>>> of >>>> Good Hope in 1800 and dies at aged 31 on 4 February 1831 as listed in >>>> the >>>> South African Commercial Adviser. >>>>

The last of the results for 190139 have been returned from the lab. He matches the Group A Apparent Ancestral Values at all 67 markers except for marker 26 (DYS 460). Where he has a 12 instead of the AAV value of 11, which puts him in A-1b. This is quite a surprise as the participant believes descent from James Gillespie/Mary Tritt. Vetted descendents of James G do not have this variance. They are in A-1a Fayette. Since this is a significant mutation, in order to prove descent from James G, the mutation needs to be isolated downline from James G. through additional testing and iron-clad paperwork. Sue Liedtke

If you do the crime then pay time. > From: [email protected] > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:33:19 -0700 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Wikileaks > > We all know free speech has limitations- shouting fire within a theater as an example. Where others are endangered free speech is not protected. Assange is a total scum-bag! If he disappears from the face of the earth I'll not cry one tear! > On Dec 13, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Peter A. Kincaid wrote: > > > I wonder how regular Americans like yourself is looking > > at the Wikileaks situation. What seems to be the > > consensus there? > > > >> From an outside perspective listening to American media > > the West is taking a big hit on this. It is not from the release > > of the information though, but on how American officials are > > reacting to it. The US is supposed to be for free speech and > > rule of law but are openly calling for the assassination or jailing > > of Julian Assange without him being charged with any crime. > > There was a crime committed but it was by an American in their > > own system. The New York Times published the same data but > > nobody is trying to assassinate them or bring financial ruin on > > this newspaper. Some top American officials (Lieberman for > > one) called for Assange to be brought to the US and charged > > with treason. Treason is a crime against one's own country. > > Assange is an Australian and never was an American. > > > > All in all, the US is looking real bad as these people seem to > > think that when someone pisses them off then their laws > > to get them should apply to the whole world. On the other > > hand their free speech rights and rule of law rights don't apply. > > I am hoping that the warped perspective only applies to the > > American media. > > > > Peter > > > > P.S. Don't get me wrong in that I certainly don't blame the US > > governement for trying to punish Wikileaks business wise. > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > > > To join the DNA project, go to: > > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Bob Arnott > [email protected] > (303)741-3468 (h) > (303) 475-9885 (c) > > > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for your message. Naturally,I'm hoping that this information carries my Kincaid ancestry a little farther back. Wilfred Kincaid --On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 8:06 AM -0800 Sue Liedtke <[email protected]> wrote: > Where did you find that William/Ann was son of a John? > > The naming pattern for the children would suggest that William/Ann Elliot > was the son of (or at least raised by) an Andrew/Mary. Perhaps the same > Andrew who fathered John/Alice Dean and James/Elizabeth Dean. > > In order for Wilfred to be vetted to William/Ann something needs to be > obtained showing that William/Martha Estill is the William refered to. > This last bit of proof might be in the Missouri probate file of either > James or Ann. > > Sue Liedtke > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 6:58 AM > Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaids in Brazil > > >> Wilfred Kincaid is DNA # 59442 Group A, set 1a, vetted to William >> Kincaid/Martha Estill. It was recently shown by deeds that >> William/Martha was a son of William/Ann of Virginia, who was a son of >> John. >> >> See what Sue wrote here: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/kincaid/2010-03/1267747723 >> >>> From the book "Abstracts of the Wills and Inventories of Bath County, >> Virginia, 1791-1842" by Jean Randolph Bruns: >> P. 96 >> >> BATH COUNTY, VA WILL BOOK 2 >> p. 265 >> Power of attorney from Archibald Kincaid of Madison County, Alabama >> Territory, to James Kincaid to convey his interest in land belonging to >> the >> heirs of William Kincaid, Nov. 10, 1818. Wit: Samuel Given Jr., executed >> in >> Alabama Territory. >> >> p. 267 >> Power of attorney by William Kincaid of Madison Co., Alabama Territory, >> to Ann Kincaid for the same purpose as above. >> >> >> >> "I had an uncle who was a lawyer in Brazil, but I thought none of his >> family >> remained there after his death. But of course his law firm could have >> retained the name." >> >> Wilfred Kincaid >> >> >> Barbara >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lesley Cains >> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:44 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 439 >> >> Thanks everyone >> Yes, Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Chislie had 4 children; >> >> John Kincaid who married Margaret Gaff (as detailed in my vetting post) >> Thomas Kincaid baptised 13-Apr-1766 and died in 1767. >> Elizabeth Kincaid baptised 15-Nov-1767 (IGI has a marriage to a James >> Hardie, but there are no OPR's) >> >> And; >> Alexander Kincaid christened 15-May-1764 and died 17-Feb-1854. >> He married Jean Clark and had six children (Thomas, John, Marion, James, >> Alexander and Thomas); >> >> Thomas Kincaid 1790-1794 = died in childhood so N/A for DNA >> >> John Kincaid 1801-1808 = died in childhood so N/A for DNA >> >> Marion Kincaid 1792 - ?? = Female so N/A for DNA >> >> James Kincaid b.09-Apr-1794, died 7-Jul-1855 at orchid Hill, he married >> 1st >> to Janet Hill 18-Apr-1842, Janet died 1-Jul-1842 (no children), then >> James married in June 1843 to Agnes Wilson and they had 4 daughters >> (Agnes Cook Kincaid, Jane Clarke Kincaid, Margaret Kincaid and Mary >> Kincaid) = all Female so N/A for DNA. >> >> Alexander Kincaid b.17-Jul-1798, there is an OPR marriage to Elizabeth >> Smith >> in Polmont 30-Jan-1813, unfortunately there are no parents mentioned on >> this >> OPR, and with the prolific naming of Alexander, I'm hesitant to say >> categorically this is the one. However, this couple did produce nine >> children (Alexander, Margaret, twins Janet & Elizabeth, Agnes, Jean, >> James, >> Janet with youngest child John born 1826 possibly being Major John >> Kincaid-Smith). I purchased the will of an Alexander Kincaid who died in >> 1849 stating he was widow of Elizabeth Smith and a farmer of Bowhouse >> Parish >> of Polmont. This document does not match up regarding all of his >> children's >> names, it mentions his sons Alexander & John only - could be son James >> was dead or out of favour ? and only mentioning daughters Margaret, >> Elizabeth, Jane (one could presume Jane to be Jean ) & Jessie ?? From >> the book - Stirlingshire Monumental inscriptions, it appears there were >> three tablets positioned together (implying close members of a family >> unit ?) written as chn are Janet, Agnes & Jas near Alexander & Elizabeth >> Kincaid. I'm still following up on this one. >> >> And, Thomas "Captain' Kincaid b.26-Sep-1796 and died 18-Mar-1884 who >> married Ann Henderson on 2-Jul-1838 did produce 10 children; >> Alexander Kincaid 1839-1892 >> John George Kincaid 1840-1924 >> Janet Kincaid 1842- ? >> Ann Jane Kincaid 1849- ? >> Marion Kincaid 1845-1930 >> James Kincaid 1847-1903 >> Elizabeth Kincaid 1848- ? >> Charles Stewart Kincaid 1851-1924 >> William Clark Kincaid 1854-1908 >> >> So considering these six sons of Captain Thomas Kincaid & Ann Henderson; >> >> 1) Alexander b.30-May-1839, d.29-Jul-1892 238 Calle Son Martin, Buenos >> Ayres, I can find no marriage or children for him. >> http://www.argbrit.org/Saudades/Saudades.htm >> >> 2) John George Kincaid, founder of John G Kincaid & Co, b.3-Oct-1840 and >> died 26-Apr-1924 married Margaret Grierson 8-Sep-1875. >> Probate confirmed by son's James Scott, Randal Grierson & Henderson >> Kincaid >> >> This couple had six sons = >> >> i) Thomas Lennox Kincaid b.1877 and died in Randwick NSW Australia 1940 >> (I have his death certificate which records his 2 marriages in Australia >> and that there were no children - the man who called himself Hilton >> Granville Kincaid was actually the son of his 2nd wife, who changed his >> surname from Marcosso to Kincaid, let me know if you want details on >> this one, the Australian Newspaper archives are available on Google >> search). >> >> ii) James Scott Kincaid b.24-Mar-1878 d.30-Jul-1940 >> Married 1st to Constance Isobel Mackellar 01-Feb-1908 in Glasgow, >> Constance >> died in 1929, James remarried in Westminster 1934 to Jean Cumming. >> The probate for James was confirmed by Jean Cumming widow and Randal G >> Kincaid. I have been unable to find records of any children by either >> marriages. >> >> iii) John George Kincaid b.1881, d.4-Aug-1909 >> I have been unable to find records of any marriage or children >> >> iv) Henderson Kincaid b.30-Mar-1884, d.1927 Dorking Surrey >> Married Marion Arnot Sloan 29-Jul-1913 Greenock >> I have been unable to find any children >> >> v) Stewart Grierson Kincaid b.9-Jan-1890, d.5-Dec-1890 >> >> vi) Randal Grierson Kincaid b.28-May-1892, d.1984 Hastings >> Randal married twice, 1st in London 1928 to Frances G Irvine (shipping >> records also show this couple travelling), 2nd to Pauline (Lillie) >> Johnson in Battle, Sussex 1939. Again, shipping records show this couple >> travelled considerably. No children found >> >> 3) Thomas Kincaid b.29-Apr-1843, died 8-Jan-1903 Buenos Ayres although he >> was 59 yrs old I can find no marriage or children for him. >> >> 4) James Kincaid b.11-Sep-1847, d.18-Oct-1903 Patagones Argentina I can >> find no marriage or children for him, certainly none were mentioned on >> his probate which was confirmed by William Clark Kincaid. >> >> 5) Charles Stewart Kincaid b.14-Jan-1851, d. 19-Jan-1924 >> Probate confirmed by James Scott Kincaid & Henderson Kincaid, no mention >> of >> a wife or children, and no records found. >> >> 6) William Clark Kincaid b. 30-Nov-1854, d.17-Dec-17-Dec-1908 I can find >> no >> marriage or children for him, certainly none were mentioned on his >> probate confirmed by Charles Stewart Kincaid and Randal Grierson Kincaid >> >> An Interesting article on this family can be found at; >> http://sites.google.com/site/inverclydeshipbuilding/home/inverclyde-engi >> neer ing-companies/kincaids >> but sadly it would seem no ongoing DNA. >> >> I do wonder with all the travelling these Kincaid men did, (as well as >> Sir John Kincaid, and his nephew Thomas William kincaid) that, well boys >> will be >> boys, perhaps once genetic DNA testing becomes more affordable/popular >> will we uncover some more Kincaids? >> >> ____________________________________________________ >> >> Looking back at John Kincaid & Margaret Gaff who had five children; >> >> Charles Kincaid born 3-May-1791 who died in Paarl South Africa as >> detailed in my vetting >> Also >> Alexander born 1789 and died at Sea aged 17 years in 1806 = No DNA >> Margaret Kincaid bap.22-Jul-1795, died 6-Oct-1863 who married Peter >> Hardie 8-Mar-1811 >> John Kincaid (Sir John Kincaid) bap.29-Jul-1787, died in Sussex >> 23-Apr-1862. >> Sir John married Louisa Frisbee on 19-Mar-1862 at Notting Hill >> (certificate >> available on Ancestry.com), his will mentions sole executrix as Dame >> Louisa >> Kincaid. No children recorded so no DNA >> And .. >> Thomas Kincaid bap.30-Oct-1785, died 31-Dec-1848 Glasgow, married >> Isabella Balloch in 1818. This couple had eleven children (Isabella, >> John, William Balloch, Thomas, Alexander, Charles Gaff, Isabella, >> Margaret, Mary and Jane). >> So, looking at the five boys - >> >> i) John Kincaid 1820- >> I have not been able to confirm a death date, the last census return >> found was 1881, showing John Kincaid born 1820, single and a cotton >> merchant born >> Stirlingshire Scotland and a boarder in Manchester. >> >> ii) William Balloch Kincaid 1822-1835 (Note; this OPR has no age for the >> William Kincaid, however I have been unable to find any other record for >> him >> at all in any search engine). >> iii) Thomas Kincaid b.05-May-1824, died 1906. Probate confirms census >> that Thomas was single, retired merchant and that he lived with his >> spinster sister Margaret who died the same year. The probate was >> confirmed by William >> Clark Kincaid and John Brownrigg Balloch. No marriage records, no >> children). >> >> iv) Alexander Kincaid b.1827, died 1847 >> >> v) Charles Gaff Kincaid 1828-1849 in Devon. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On >> Behalf Of [email protected] >> Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2010 12:37 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 439 >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 (Peter A. Kincaid) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:36:20 -0400 >> From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; >> reply-type=original >> >> These are of the Thomas Kincaid/Elizabeth Chiesly line. Henderson >> is a grandson of Captain Thomas. He was John George Kincaid's >> son. >> >> I believe you missed: >> >> A son to Mr & Mrs Thomas Kincaid born at Quarry Bank, Greenock >> on 14th January 1851 [Greenock Advertiser, Greenock, UK. >> 17 January 1851]. >> >> This would be Charles Stewart Kincaid. Charles Stewart, son of >> Thomas Kincaid and Ann Henderson, was baptized on 28 January 1851 >> at West (Old) Parish, Greenock. >> >> Peter >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:47 AM >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >> >> >>> Lesley, are these Kincaids from your family line? I did not see the >>> first >>> son of Capt. Thomas on this website. Henderson Kincaid may have been a >>> grandson of Capt. Thomas or was he the first son? The marriage date >>> seems >>> too late for him to have been Thomas/Ann's son. >>> >>> KINCAID Captain Thomas Kincaid to Ann, only daughter of late Captain >>> John Henderson, Port >>> Glasgow, at Wood Cottage, Greenock on 2nd July 1838 by Reverend Menzies. >>> (Greenock >>> Advertiser 2.7.1838) see Ann H >>> >>> KINCAID Ann Henderson, wife of Captain Thomas Kincaid, died at >>> Corriebank, >>> 11 Eldon Street >>> Greenock on 2nd January 1883 age 69. (Greenock Advertiser & Greenock >>> Telegraph >>> 3.1.1883) see Elizabeth; Captain Thomas >>> >>> KINCAID Henderson Kincaid, Greenock, to Marion Arnot, elder daughter of >>> William A. Sloan, >>> Larkfield, at St James?, Kilmacolm on 29th July 1913 ? p2. (Greenock >>> Telegraph 30.7.1913) >>> >>> >>> KINCAID James, 4th son of late Thomas Kincaid, Corriebank, Greenock, >>> died at >>> Patagones, >>> Argentine on 18th October 1903 (Greenock Telegraph 13.11.1903) see >>> Thomas >>> >>> KINCAID Thomas, 3rd son of late Thomas Kincaid, Corrie Bank, Greenock >>> died >>> at Buenos Ayres on >>> 8th January 1903 (Greenock Telegraph 10.1.1903) James: Thomas(1884) >>> >>> >>> KINCAID John George, 2nd son of Thomas, Kincaid, Greenock to Margaret >>> Grierson, only daughter of >>> James Scott, at Kirtlington, Oxford on 8th September 1875 (Greenock >>> Telegraph 11.9.1875) >>> >>> KINCAID William Clark Kincaid, commission agent, youngest son of the >>> late Thomas Kincaid, died at >>> Corrie Bank, Greenock on 17th December 1908 (Greenock Telegraph >>> 18.12.1908) >>> see >>> Thomas >>> >>> >>> >> http://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/GetAsset.aspx?id=fAAyADUANQAwAHwAfABGAGEAbA >> BzAG UAfAB8ADAAfAA1 >>> >>> Barbara >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lesley Cains >>> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 5:47 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >>> >>> OMG - obvious typo's - message edited/corrected below with CAPITALS >>> with sincere apologies; >>> >>> Yes, I have looked at the 26-Jun-1730 marriage of JAMES & Janet (OPR >>> 479/00 >>> 0080 0081 Falkirk reads James Kincaid son of Thomas in Dalderse to Janet >>> Simpson daughter of Ales Simpson in Kerse). >>> The birth record of their son THOMAS (OPR 470/00 0030 0525 Falkirk >>> 11-Jul-1731 witness Alex Simpson and John Kincaid) But ...... >>> On 24-Jun-1725 (OPR 479/00 0080 0040 Falkirk) a John Kincaid married a >>> Jean >>> Kincaid (John Kincaid in Grange son to John Kincaid in Candie to Jean >>> Kincaid daughter of Thomas Kincaid in Dalderse. >>> The birth record of their son THOMAS (OPR 479/00 0030 0511 Falkirk >>> 17-May-1730 witness John Kincaid and Tom Watts. >>> >>> Both THOMAS Kincaid's born 1730 and 1731 could well be the husband of >>> Elizabeth Chiesly (Their wedding OPR's do not show any parents names) - >>> Both >>> possible fathers of THOMAS Kincaid gave their children similar names, >>> making research difficult. >>> Though it does look like the common link may be Thomas Kincaid (father >>> of both James & Jean) from Dalderse. This would mean the DNA from >>> Thomas in Dalderse could be from the Paternal line if JAMES & Janet >>> were parents or Maternal if John & Jean were. >>> >>> Then, if the parents of THOMAS kincaid born 1730/1731 were John and >>> Jean, that means I'm looking at a paternal line from John Kincaid in >>> Candie ??? I think this would then be a different Kincaid line to Gene >>> from the Kincaid >>> DNA database. >>> >>> Thinking logically, following Scottish tradition of naming the 1st born >>> male >>> child after the child's grandfather, consider John & Jean being the >>> parents, they had seven children, the first born son was Thomas, John's >>> father was named John. The second son was named Alexander, Jean's >>> father was named Thomas (clearly no tradition in this family. >>> James & Janet had 13 children and their eldest was named Thomas, James' >>> father was named Thomas, Janet's father was Alexander and she named her >>> 2nd >>> son Alexander. >>> >>> So to finding other possible DNA samples; Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 >>> other >>> children besides John (daughter Elizabeth and son Thomas who died in >>> infancy >>> - so they are of no help) Their son Alexander (1764-1854) married Jean >>> Clark, they had 6 children (1) Thomas 1790-1794 (2) Marion 1792- ? (3) >>> James >>> 1794- 1855 Orchard Hill married twice, Agnes White and Anne Henderson >>> and only had daughters. (4) Thomas (Captain Thomas Kincaid 1796-1884) >>> married Anne Henderson, his family is well documented via his 2nd son's >>> shipping business John G Kincaid & Co in Renfrewshire, and his other >>> son's travels to >>> Patagonia Buenos Aires. >>> Note, I have not been able to find any of this family line researching >>> their >>> family tree, and have had no contact with anyone who may be able to help >>> (can't really phone up from Australia and say "G'day , sorry to bother >>> you >>> but I think you are related to my son from way back in the 1700's and >>> would >>> you mind just submitting your DNA for me" ...... >>> (5) Alexander Kincaid born 1798, I had thought he married Elizabeth >>> Smith and that it was his son who became Major John Smith-Kincaid, but >>> recent communication with Eric Kincaid's family has now thrown a >>> question about this line with the possibility of 2 Alexander & >>> Elizabeths. (6) John (1801-1808). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>> On >>> Behalf Of [email protected] >>> Sent: Sunday, 12 December 2010 1:37 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >>> >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>> &Elizabeth Chi... (Peter A. Kincaid) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 11:35:22 -0400 >>> From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>> &Elizabeth Chi... >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> Except that the 17-May-1730 and 11-Jul-1731 baptisms she >>> cites were not for a son John but for sons named Thomas. It >>> wasThomas Kincaid who married Elizabeth Chiesly not John >>> Kincaid. >>> >>> Just to be clear, even if a mother was a Kincaid when >>> we do Y-DNA testing it is the father's DNA that is being >>> passed on. There would be no Y-DNA trace of the mother >>> in a participant today. >>> >>> Unfortunately, it is quite likely that the participant has a >>> separate paternal lineage than the ancestor in question >>> because they match no other Kincaid. Until a matching >>> result is found for a participant in another branch of Thomas, >>> one assumes that the participant's Y-DNA is not representative >>> of the Kincaids of Dalderse or Grange or Candie. Legally >>> the participant represents the line but genetic representation is >>> another matter. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:50 AM >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>> &Elizabeth Chi... >>> >>> >>>> WOW - this is a wonderful, thoughtful and scholarly piece of research. >>>> Thank you for sharing this with the List. >>>> >>>> Ruth >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 12/10/2010 8:13:25 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >>>> [email protected] writes: >>>> >>>> Thank you Barbara >>>> >>>> Yes, I have looked at the 26-Jun-1730 marriage of John & Janet (OPR >>>> 479/00 >>>> 0080 0081 Falkirk reads James Kincaid son of Thomas in Dalderse to >>>> Janet >>>> Simpson daughter of Ales Simpson in Kerse). >>>> The birth record of their son John (OPR 470/00 0030 0525 Falkirk >>>> 11-Jul-1731 >>>> witness Alex Simpson and John Kincaid) >>>> But ...... >>>> On 24-Jun-1725 (OPR 479/00 0080 0040 Falkirk) a John Kincaid married a >>>> Jean >>>> Kincaid (in Grange son to John Kincaid in Candie to Jean Kincaid >>>> daughter >>>> of >>>> Thomas Kincaid in Dalderse. >>>> The birth record of their son John (OPR 479/00 0030 0511 Falkirk >>>> 17-May-1730 >>>> witness John Kincaid and Tom Watts. >>>> >>>> Both John Kincaid's born 1730 and 1731 could well be the husband of >>>> Elizabeth Chiesly (Their wedding OPR's do not show any parents names) - >>>> Both possible fathers of John Kincaid gave their children similar >>>> names, >>>> making research difficult. >>>> Though it does look like the common link may be Thomas Kincaid (father >>>> of >>>> James & Jean) from Dalderse. This would mean the DNA from Thomas in >>>> Dalderse >>>> could be from the Paternal line if John & Janet were parents or >>>> Maternal >>>> if >>>> John & Jean were. >>>> >>>> Then, if the parents of John kincaid born 1730/1731 were John and >>>> Jean, that >>>> means I'm looking at a line from John Kincaid in Candie ??? >>>> I think this would then be a different Kincaid line to Gene from the >>>> Kincaid >>>> DNA database. >>>> >>>> Thinking logically, following Scottish tradition of naming the 1st >>>> born male >>>> child after the child's grandfather, consider John & Jean being the >>>> parents, they had seven children, the first born son was Thomas, >>>> John's father was named John. The second son was named Alexander, >>>> Jean's father >>>> was named Thomas (clearly no tradition in this family) >>>> James & Janet had 13 children and their eldest was named Thomas, >>>> James' father was named Thomas, Janet's father was Alexander and she >>>> named her 2nd >>>> son Alexander. >>>> >>>> So to finding other possible DNA samples; >>>> Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 other children besides John (daughter >>>> Elizabeth >>>> and son Thomas who died in infancy - so they are of no help) >>>> Their son Alexander (1764-1854) married Jean Clark, they had 6 >>>> children (1) >>>> Thomas 1790-1794 (2) Marion 1792- ? (3) James 1794- 1855 Orchard Hill >>>> married twice, Agnes White and Anne Henderson and only had daughters. >>>> (4) >>>> Thomas (Captain Thomas Kincaid 1796-1884) married Anne Henderson, his >>>> family >>>> is well documented via his 2nd son's shipping business John G Kincaid >>>> & Co >>>> in Renfrewshire, and his other son's travels to Patagonia Buenos >>>> Aires. Note, I have not been able to find any of this family line >>>> researching their >>>> family tree, and have had no contact with anyone who may be able to >>>> help >>>> (can't really phone up from Australia and say "G'day , sorry to bother >>>> you >>>> but I think you are related to my son from way back in the 1700's and >>>> would >>>> you mind just submitting your DNA for me" ...... >>>> (5) Alexander Kincaid born 1798, I had thought he married Elizabeth >>>> Smith >>>> and that it was his son who became Major John Smith-Kincaid, but >>>> recent communication with Eric Kincaid's family has now thrown a >>>> question about >>>> this line with the possibility of 2 Alexander & Elizabeths. (6) John >>>> (1801-1808). >>>> >>>> Interesting article at >>>> >>> >> http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/corporate_neighbourhood/housing/polic >> ies_ >>>> and_strategies/PDFs/dawson/april_2006_newsletter.pdf >>>> >>>> The farmer occupying Dalderse Mill Farm in 1876 were the >>>> Kincaid family and in 1810 it was Thomas McGregor and he >>>> was succeed by Andrew Mackie who died in 1831. >>>> The farmer at Dalderse Farm in 1871 was Robert Buchan >>>> and his farmland appears to be the area that was the >>>> grounds of Dalderse Mansion House, north and west of >>>> Bainsford Burn. >>>> In 1876, about halfway between Dalderse Farmhouse and >>>> the Forth & Clyde Canal on Abbot's Road, a large house >>>> Orchard Hall was built and it had quite large grounds. >>>> The owners were Alex. Vernon Macall, Fleet Paymaster of >>>> H.M. Navy, Southsea, his wife, Jane Clark Kincaid or Macall >>>> and her sister, Margaret Kincaid. However by 1891, Margaret >>>> Walker Forrester was apparently living at Orchard Hall. >>>> >>>> Note - Jane Clark Kincaid was the daughter of James Kincaid and Agnes >>>> Wilson >>>> born in 1846, her father died at Orchard Hill and she had a sister >>>> Margaret. >>>> Back to John Kincaid born 1730/1731, the common grandfather was Thomas >>>> Kincaid of Dalderse to both possible sets of John's parents. >>>> >>>> All suggestions, comments etc gratefully received. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> On >>>> Behalf Of [email protected] >>>> Sent: Saturday, 11 December 2010 8:37 AM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 429 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Kincaids of Edinburgh in the 1500's (Barbara Van Hout) >>>> 2. Re: Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid and >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy (Barbara Van Hout) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 14:29:11 -0500 >>>> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaids of Edinburgh in the 1500's >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>>> >>>> >>> >> http://www.electricscotland.com/history/records/scottishrecordso31scotuo >> ft.p >>>> df >>>> >>>> There is a David Kincaid, wife Elizabeth or Isabel Cockburn, with a >>>> son John >>>> Kincaid in these records. Also mentioned are Cuthbert Kincaid, James >>>> Kincaid, Sr. & Jr., Stephen Kincaid, and Edward Kincaid, Burgess of >>>> Edinburgh. >>>> >>>> The list is on p. 113 of the above link to the ?Protocol Book of >>>> Gilbert >>>> Grote, 1552-1573.? >>>> >>>> How were the Edinburgh Kincaids related to the James Kincaid family >>>> of Campsie? >>>> >>>> >>>> Barbara >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:36:40 -0500 >>>> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>>> and Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; >>>> reply-type=original >>>> >>>> Sue, I agree with you that it would be good to get another sample from >>>> this >>>> Kincaid family of Falkirk. >>>> >>>> The Family Search website gives James Kincaid (son of Thomas) and >>>> Janet Simson/Simpson (daughter of Alexander) as the parents of Thomas >>>> Kincaid/Elizabeth Chiesly. Which Thomas was the possible father of >>>> James/Janet who married >>>> Aug. 7, 1730 in Falkirk, Sterling, Scotland according to church >>>> records. >>>> >>>> Barbara >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sue Liedtke >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 5:29 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas >>>> kincaidand >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> >>>> I agree that the paper work is excellant. Lesley has worked very hard >>>> to >>>> get >>>> all her ducks in a row but I am still hesitent to mark the line as >>>> fully >>>> vetted without a close match. The problem is not that this isn't a >>>> true family line but that a vetted line says that the DNA profile is >>>> that of the >>>> given ancestor. That is a primary reason for vetting. In this case we >>>> don't >>>> know if this is Thomas's DNA profile or not. There may have been an >>>> unrecorded non-Kincaid paternal event somewhere along the line. >>>> >>>> It is not just that Martyn doesn't match Gene. If he had matched >>>> anyone in >>>> any Group, even someone in the ungrouped section if it could be shown >>>> that >>>> the ancestral lines did not merge in recent times, then I would not a >>>> see >>>> a >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> All vetted lines have a near DNA match. We held off vetting #168724 >>>> until >>>> a >>>> confirming DNA sample could be tested. Many participants have had to >>>> find >>>> someone for testing in order to isolate a mutation before they could >>>> be vetted to a specific ancestor. >>>> >>>> I know that Lesley has struck out in trying to get a DNA sample from >>>> the >>>> line of one of Charles' other sons. I am wondering if it is possible >>>> to trace a line down from John? >>>> >>>> Sue Liedtke >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Don W Kincaid" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:58 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas >>>> kincaidand >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe Lesley has done an excellent job in documenting the lineage >>>> of >>>> Martyn Stuart Kincaid to Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisley. There >>>> are not >>>> many who are documented as well as this one. One of the other well >>>> documented ones is for Gene Kincaid, #23547 who shows back to Falkirk >>>> Parish >>>> in Scotland like Martyn shows so I understand Sue's apprehension on >>>> vetting >>>> Martyn since his dna does not match with 23547. With the excellent >>>> documentation for Martyn, I believe we should show him as vetted. One >>>> big >>>> reason I believe we should vet Martyn is that there could easily be 2 >>>> lines >>>> of Kincaid's in Falkirk Parish just as we have found 2 different lines >>>> of >>>> Kincaid's living next to each other in the Colonies in several >>>> instances. >>>> If >>>> we did not have another participant showing to Falkirk Parish, would >>>> anyone >>>> have an objection to Martyn's lineage being vetted? I doubt anyone >>>> would, >>>> given the excellent documentation. If vetted, I would not object to >>>> having >>>> a >>>> note stating that dna results have not confirmed Martyn's lineage to >>>> Falkirk >>>> or a similar statement. >>>> >>>> Don, # 1427 >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Sue Liedtke >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:40 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas >>>> kincaidand >>>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> >>>> >>>> This is the 2nd call for comments on the post seeking to vet #186057 >>>> to Thomas/Elizabeth Chiesly. I have asked that comments be directed to >>>> the paper trail as a separate entity from the DNA as I have a >>>> question as to >>>> the >>>> advisability of vetting a line without a confirming DNA sample from >>>> the furthest ancestor. >>>> >>>> Normally it takes 2 identical samples from the lines of different sons >>>> of >>>> a >>>> given ancestor to prove the DNA of that ancestor. In most cases we can >>>> get >>>> around this because we have identical DNA from other Kincaids whose >>>> ancestors pre-date the given ancestor or could be descended from the >>>> same >>>> ancestor by a different son. In cases where there is an unexpected >>>> significant mutation, that mutation needs to be isolated before the >>>> line >>>> can >>>> be vetted. As an example:49289 has an unexpected mutation to 9 at >>>> marker >>>> 15. >>>> This is a significant mutation as it is used to separate A-2 Kincaids >>>> from >>>> A-1 Kincaids, however no other Kincaid (and there are many >>>> participants) >>>> in >>>> the immediate geographic region has this mutation. #49289 could not be >>>> vetted until #135736 who does not have the mutation could be vetted >>>> to a >>>> common ancestor (note other unvetted lines from this ancestor do not >>>> have >>>> the mutation). >>>> >>>> In the case of #186057 we do not have identical DNA from anyone else >>>> in the >>>> project. While Thomas/Elizabeth Chiesly may very well be represented >>>> by >>>> # 186057's DNA, there is also the possibility that an undisclosed >>>> non-Kincaid >>>> paternal event occurred somewhere along the line. This needs to be >>>> ruled >>>> out >>>> with confirming DNA. >>>> >>>> Non the less, it would be of immense value to know if the paper >>>> research >>>> is >>>> sound i.e if the DNA were confirmed could this line be vetted. This >>>> would >>>> facilitate finding a participant from a different son's line to be >>>> tested >>>> for confirming DNA. Please look over the paper trail and comment. >>>> >>>> Sue Liedtke >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Lesley Cains" <[email protected]> >>>> To: <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:31 AM >>>> Subject: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas kincaid >>>> and Elizabeth Chielsy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Vetting Martyn Stuart Kincaid to Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisley >>>> Martyn Kincaid DNA kit #186057 >>>> Researcher : Lesley Sharon Cains, mother of Martyn Stuart Kincaid and >>>> ex >>>> wife of Alan John Kincaid >>>> >>>> ___________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> >>>> Martyn Stuart Kincaid 'Living' b.1987, Lilydale,Victoria Australia not >>>> married. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth certificate (original available) for Martyn Stuart >>>> Kincaid; >>>> parents listed as Alan John Kincaid and Lesley Sharon Kincaid nee >>>> Cains. >>>> >>>> Personal knowledge; I know my son is the son of Alan John Kincaid. >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Alan John Kincaid 'Living" b.1957 Carlton Victoria Australia m Lesley >>>> Sharon >>>> Cains in 1986 at Numurkah Victoria Australia (certificate available). >>>> >>>> Son of Bertram Langley Kincaid and Dorothy Dawn Nash. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth certificate for Alan John Kincaid listing parents as >>>> Bertram Langley Kincaid and Dorothy Dawn Nash. >>>> >>>> Personal knowledge; I personally know the parents and siblings of Alan >>>> John >>>> Kincaid all of whom acknowledge him as the son of Bertram Langley >>>> Kincaid. >>>> >>>> The parents and 3 of the 4 siblings of Alan John Kincaid are all still >>>> living. >>>> >>>> The siblings of Alan John Kincaid are Robert Charles Kincaid, Karen >>>> Eileen >>>> Kincaid, Helen Jean Kincaid and Heather Kincaid (1963-1963). >>>> _____________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Bertram Langley Kincaid 'Living' b.1930 Daylesford, Victoria Australia >>>> m >>>> Dorothy Dawn Nash 16 October 1955 Camberwell Victoria Australia. >>>> >>>> Son of Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters (both >>>> deceased). >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth certificate for Bertram Langley Kincaid listing his >>>> parents >>>> as Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters, as confirmed >>>> by Bertram Langley Kincaid who resides in Victoria Australia. >>>> >>>> Australian death certificate's (copies available) for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Kincaid (nee Waters) listing Bertram Langley >>>> Kincaid >>>> as their son, and also Bertram's siblings John (dec'd), Eileen >>>> (dec'd), Valma and Arthur David. >>>> >>>> Australian Electoral Roll records 1954 showing Bertram Langley Kincaid >>>> living at the home of Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita >>>> Kincaid >>>> with his siblings Arthur and John. >>>> >>>> Springvale Victoria Australia crematorium records for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Kincaid. Website look up; >>>> >>>> >>> >> http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php?page=search&s_res=GO&cid=330&Giv >> en_N >>>> ames=&Surname=kincaid&Surname_ex=&hw_num=100 >>>> >>>> Personal knowledge; I personally knew both parents of Bertram Langley >>>> Kincaid and attended their funeral services. >>>> I personally knew both Valma Jean Kincaid and Arthur David Kincaid >>>> (both >>>> now >>>> deceased) siblings of Bertram Langley Kincaid. >>>> The family also told me of Eileen Hilda Kincaid, sister of Bertram >>>> Langley >>>> Kincaid who married William St Dennis and migrated to the United >>>> States, >>>> her >>>> social security death index ssn 037-20-3410 Rhode Island date of death >>>> August 1976, and California passenger & Crew list showing Eileen St >>>> Denis >>>> & >>>> William St Denis arriving in California 12 Sep 1946, with Eileen on an >>>> Australian passport with notation of her maiden name confirms what the >>>> family have related to me. >>>> Alan John Kincaid also told of Bertram's deceased brother John Charles >>>> Kincaid who died alone following an accident in his home in 1978 as >>>> proven >>>> by his obituary and Springvale Crematorium records. >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid b. 7 January 1902 Daylesford Victoria >>>> Australia m Sarah Rita Waters 24 March 1922 Mildura Victoria Australia >>>> (certificate available). >>>> >>>> Son of Charles Langley Kincaid and Elizabeth Nelson. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth record #2384 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid DOB as 7 January 1902 listing his parents as Charles Kincaid >>>> (a >>>> Miner aged 42) and Elizabeth Kincaid, formerly Nelson (aged 42) living >>>> at >>>> Eganstown Victoria, who were married 13 April 1891. Siblings shown on >>>> the >>>> certificate are Grace Cowling Kincaid, Alice Kincaid, Eliza Kincaid, >>>> Clarice >>>> Kincaid and Helena Kincaid (dec'd). >>>> >>>> Australian marriage record #558 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters married on 24 March 1922 at St >>>> Margaret's Vicarage Mildura, listing Arthur's father as Charles >>>> Langley Kincaid, a Miner as his father and Elizabeth Nelson as his >>>> mother. >>>> >>>> Australian death record #12575/83 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>>> Nelson >>>> Kincaid date of death 6 June 1983 at Heatherton Victoria Australia, >>>> retired >>>> aged 81 years and born in Daylesford Victoria. Fathers name showing >>>> as Charles Kincaid and mother as Elizabeth Kincaid (maiden name >>>> Nelson), certified by his wife Sarah (known as Rita) Kincaid. This >>>> certificate also >>>> shows Arthur was 20 years old when he married Sarah Rita Waters in >>>> Mildura >>>> and that he was still married at the time of his death, children >>>> listed as >>>> Arthur aged 61 yrs, Valma aged 59 yrs, Eileen (deceased), John >>>> (deceased), >>>> Bertram aged 53 years. >>>> >>>> Australian Electoral Roll's for the years 1924, 1931, 1936, 1937 and >>>> 1949 >>>> detailing his address and family members (available to view on >>>> Ancestry.com). >>>> >>>> An on-line Australian newspaper Archive record detailing the death of >>>> his >>>> sister Clarice Leona Kincaid and recording that her body was identified >>>> by >>>> her brother Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid reads; "Found dead in the >>>> bush, >>>> died from exposure, exhaustion and natural causes (refer to inquest & >>>> newpaper articles), VPRS 24/P Unit 1031 File 92 Clarice Leona Kincaid >>>> died >>>> on or about 28 Dec 1922 from exhaustion during the first stages of >>>> labour. >>>> Body identified by brother - Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid >>>> (stonemason) residing at Victoria park Daylesford. Arthur Angove aged >>>> 16 from Daylesord >>>> was one of those that found her along with Frank Stevens and James >>>> Langdon >>>> who were bird nesting on Angus Hill, on the Cornish Reef". (ref; >>>> >>>> >>> >> http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1871036?searchTerm=clarice+ >> kinc >>>> aid). >>>> >>>> Springvale Victoria Crematorium records showing that he was cremated 8 >>>> June >>>> 1983. >>>> >>>> Personal knowledge; I personally knew Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid >>>> and visited his home with Alan John Kincaid, I also attended his >>>> funeral service. I identified the address' given in the Australian >>>> Electoral Roll's >>>> from my visits to his home, and the earlier address' from when I took >>>> Sarah >>>> Rita Kincaid back To Daylesford and she showed me her old home. Sarah >>>> Rita >>>> Kincaid also took me to her own parents' grave, explaining that Arthur >>>> Charles Nelson Kincaid was a stonemason by trade and made her parents >>>> tombstone and many others in the Kyneton & Daylesford area. Sarah >>>> told me >>>> they had named their son Bertram Langley Kincaid after Arthur's father >>>> Charles Langley Kincaid. >>>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Charles Langley Kincaid b.21 Apr 1859 Mt Egerton Victoria Australia m >>>> Elizabeth Nelson 30 April 1891 Daylesford Victoria (certificate >>>> available). >>>> >>>> Son of Thomas William Kincaid and Eliza Rae. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Australian birth record #154 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>>> Kincaid >>>> DOB as 21 April 1859 at Mount Egerton Victoria, details show father as >>>> Thomas William Kincaid a Miner in aged 36 years and born Cape of Good >>>> Hope, >>>> marriage details on this record for Thomas William Kincaid given as >>>> "1845 >>>> Stepney London", other children "Thomas Kincaid and Alconda Degney >>>> Kincaid". >>>> Mother as Eliza Kincaid formerly Rae, aged 31 years from Waterford >>>> Ireland >>>> and signed by Thomas William Kincaid, father. >>>> >>>> Australian marriage record #4032 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>>> Kincaid and Eliza Nelson 30 April 1891 at the Bible Christian >>>> parsonage Daylesford. This record details Charles aged as 32 years as >>>> son of Thomas >>>> William Kincaid a Miner, and Elizabeth Rae. >>>> >>>> Australian death record #1813 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>>> Kincaid, >>>> a Miner died 28 May 1931 at the District Hospital Daylesford aged 72 >>>> years, >>>> his parents are given as Thomas William Kincaid and Elizabeth Kincaid >>>> formerly Rae. It shows Charles was buried on 30 May 1931 at Daylesford >>>> cemetery and that he was born in Eganstown and had lived in Victoria >>>> his >>>> whole life. His children are listed as Grace 39 years, Alice 38 years, >>>> Myrtle 35 years, Clarice (deceased) and Arthur 29 years. >>>> >>>> Australian Electoral Roll's for the years 1914, 1924 and 1928 >>>> detailing his >>>> address and family members. >>>> >>>> Obituary; (1) THE DAYLESFORD ADVOCATE Friday, May 29, 1931 FUNERAL >>>> NOTICE >>>> KINCAID -The friends of the late Mr. Charles Langley Kincaid are >>>> respectfully informed that his remains will be interred in the >>>> Dayiesford >>>> Cemetery TOMORROW (Saturday) May 30. The Funeral is appointed to leave >>>> the >>>> mortuary parlour of R. F. Verey at 1.30 pm. R. F. Verey, Funeral >>>> Director. >>>> Phone 245. (2) THE DAYLESFORD ADVOCATE Tuesday 2 June, 1931 OBITUARY >>>> CHARLES >>>> LANGLEY KINCAID The death occurred on Thursday morning last, of Mr >>>> Charles >>>> Langley Kincaid, after a long illness, at the age of 72 years. The >>>> late Mr. >>>> Kincaid was born in Eganstown district, and had resided in this >>>> locality >>>> all >>>> his life. For many years he was connected to the mining industry. Mrs. >>>> Kincaid and an adult family of three daughters and one son survive to >>>> mourn >>>> their loss, one daughter having predeceased Mr. Kincaid some years >>>> ago. The >>>> funeral took place on Saturday afternoon, and was largely attended. >>>> The casket was carried by Messrs. M. Dickson, W. Spear, W. Burnett >>>> (sons-in-law), C. Nelson (nephew), A. Dickson and J. Dickson. Rev. S. >>>> D. >>>> Yarrington conducted the service at the graveside, and the funeral >>>> arrangements were in the hands of Mr. R. F. Verey. >>>> >>>> Grave; Grave C of E 4 C 6 In loving memory of Charles Langley Kincaid, >>>> Elizabeth Kincaid, and Grace Cowling Dickson died 18 Feb, 1982. >>>> >>>> The personal knowledge of his grandson Bertram Langley Kincaid, who >>>> has confirmed the above for me. >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Thomas William Kincaid b.2 August 1823 Cape of Good Hope, South Africa >>>> m >>>> (i) >>>> Elizabeth Catherine Barrett on 18 May 1845 Stepney London (certificate >>>> available). Elizabeth Catherine Barratt died 13 March 1850. This >>>> marriage >>>> produced one child, Thomas Hardie Kincaid b. 16 February 1849 >>>> (certificate >>>> available) Rotherhithe England and died 3 February 1929 at Rotherhithe >>>> London UK. >>>> >>>> Thomas William Kincaid b.2 August 1823 Cape of Good Hope, South >>>> Africa m >>>> (ii) Eliza Rae on 16 Nov 1850 Victoria Australia >>>> >>>> Son of Charles Kincaid and Hillegonda Sophia Row. >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Beaufort West, South Africa Baptism register on microfilm number 5-39, >>>> "Child Thomas William born 2 August 1823, baptised 17 August 1823. >>>> Parents >>>> Charles Kincaid, Hilegonda [sic] Sophia Roow [sic]. Witnesses Joseph >>>> Cleaver, Susanna Frederica Roow [sic], Willem Roow[sic], Anna >>>> Roow[sic]". >>>> (photograph of document ordered from GISA and available November >>>> 2010). >>>> >>>> Beaufort West South Africa Baptism record, born 2 August 1823, >>>> baptised 17 >>>> August 1823 as per the SA Genealogies by Lombard & Hesse, page 277 >>>> (this >>>> record purchased from GISA, Genealogy Institute of South Africa) >>>> and also >>>> provided by contact with Joy Roy (a descendant of Thomas William >>>> Kincaid >>>> and professional researcher), Heather McAllister and Tessa King >>>> (Administrators for Ancestry24.com). >>>> >>>> Details taken from the - UK Marriage record for Thomas William Kincaid >>>> (of >>>> full age, a Mariner Chief Officer - son of Charles Kincaid, a sadler) >>>> to >>>> Elizabeth Catherine Barratt (with consent of parents) on 18 May 1845 >>>> at >>>> St >>>> Thomas' Church Stepney UK, witnessed by William Brown & Sophia Barratt >>>> (copy >>>> available). >>>> >>>> Taken from the - UK Birth record (copy available) of Thomas Hardie >>>> Kincaid >>>> 16 February 1849, father given as Thomas William Kincaid (Master >>>> Mariner) >>>> mother as Elizabeth Catherine Kincaid formerly Barratt. >>>> >>>> Taken from the - Australian Death record #14665 (copy on available) 14 >>>> December 1903 at Leonards Hill Victoria Australia, Thomas William >>>> Kincaid >>>> aged 80 years. His father was recorded as John Kincaid, profession >>>> unknown, >>>> information on this record was detailed as being provided by his son >>>> John >>>> Rae Kincaid. He was buried on 16 December 1903 at Eganstown Public >>>> cemetery, >>>> and shows he had lived 50 years in Victoria. Place of birth given as >>>> Cape >>>> Town, Cape Colony South Africa, married to Eliza Rae (not living). >>>> The children of Thomas William Kincaid are listed as Charles 44 >>>> years, Janet >>>> 42 >>>> years, John 40 years, Margaret 38 years, Annie 36 years, Isabella 34 >>>> years, >>>> Eliza 32 years, Thomas William 30 years and Alconda (deceased). >>>> >>>> The Australian birth records (copies available) for the Children of >>>> Thomas >>>> William Kincaid & Eliza Rae for Charles Langley 1859, John Rae 1863, >>>> Annie >>>> Eliza 1868, Elizabeth 1873, Thomas William 1875 all detailing the >>>> father >>>> and >>>> his place of birth as The cape of Good Hope. >>>> >>>> The birth certificate's for Thomas William Kincaid's children; John >>>> Rae >>>> Kincaid in 1863 details Thomas William Kincaid & Eliza Rae married in >>>> Melbourne 1851. On Annie Eliza's record it details 'Melbourne', on >>>> Elizabeth's as 16 November 1850 and on Thomas' 1875 birth record as >>>> 26 November 1850. >>>> >>>> Australian death record (copy available) for daughter Alconda Kincaid >>>> aged >>>> 14 years 27 May 1870 in Eganstown details her parents as Thomas >>>> William Kincaid and Eliza Kincaid, and that Alconda was born in >>>> Newstead, Melbourne >>>> Victoria Australia. >>>> >>>> The Australian marriage certificate for daughter Janet Hardie Kincaid >>>> (copy >>>> available) 25 October 1887 shows her parents as Thomas William Kincaid >>>> and >>>> Eliza Kincaid nee Rae, on her death record in 1933 (copy available) >>>> her parents were given as John Kincaid (a Miner) and Eliza Kincaid >>>> formerly Rae >>>> as provided by S Brown, authorised agent >>>> >>>> When youngest son Thomas William Kincaid died in 1959 at aged 84 his >>>> parents >>>> were listed as unknown. >>>> >>>> Australian 1903 Electoral Roll showing Thomas William Kincaid living >>>> at Leonards Hill Victoria, occupation Miner. >>>> Australian Rate Books - Mt Franklin Victoria from 1872 - 1902 >>>> >>>> Australian Newspaper Archive - Daylesford Advocate Thursday 17 >>>> December 1903 >>>> - The late Mr Kincaid; The remains of Mr T W Kincaid were interred in >>>> the >>>> Eganstown Public Cemetery yesterday. The funeral started from his late >>>> residence at Leonard's Hill and comprised of mourners in eight >>>> conveyances >>>> and seven horsemen. The bearers were Messers Kramer, Aldridge, >>>> McKidrew (2), >>>> Ladigus and Blackwell, Mr Taylor read the burial service. Messer's >>>> Verey >>>> Bros had charge of the mortuary arrangements. >>>> _____________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Charles Kincaid b.3 May 1791 m (i) Hillegonda Sophia Row on 3 August >>>> 1818 >>>> Cape of Good Hope (Hillegonda born 1800, died 4 February 1831). >>>> >>>> Charles Kincaid b.3 May 1791 m (ii) Christina Johanna Marian Sporkman, >>>> widow >>>> of John Herbert 12 October 1846 Cape of Good Hope (copy available). >>>> >>>> Son of John Kincaid and Margaret Gaff >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Scottish OPR record 487/0010 0356 (copy on available) detailing "John >>>> Kincaid and Margaret Gaff, their son named Charles was born 3 May 1791 >>>> and >>>> baptised 8 May, witness' Thomas Kincaid and John Gibb". >>>> >>>> Website - Old Polmont Church (note - please note that not all details >>>> on >>>> this website are accurate eg Sir John Kincaid given as never married, >>>> he >>>> in >>>> fact married Louisa Frisbee a month before his death). refer >>>> www.polmontold.org.uk/hist1845part06.html >>>> >>>>> From the list of passengers arriving in South Africa on board the >>>>> Ship >>>> 'The >>>> Brilliant' in 1817, Charles Kincaid was part of a group of Scottish >>>> Artisans >>>> organised by Benjamin Moodie. >>>> >>>>> From the Book - British Residents at the Cape 1795-1819, by David >>>>> Phillip >>>> page 222, in part reads - "Kincaid, Charles, saddler single arrived 4 >>>> June >>>> 1817 Table Bay, in Brilliant ex Downs under Moodies direction. 2 >>>> August 1817 >>>> has commenced business (saddle, cap and harness maker). 3 August 1818 >>>> marriage of CK of Falkirk, Stirling aged 27 to Hillegonda Sophia d,o, >>>> Robt. >>>> Row aged 18. 6 June 1819 baptised their son John Robert. 18 March 1821 >>>> baptised of their son Charles Langley". >>>> >>>>> From the National Archives of South Africa - in 1818 'memorials >>>>> received, >>>> Charles Kincaid requesting permission to remain in the Colony. >>>> >>>>> From the National Archives of South Africa - Charles Kincaid aged 27, >>>> birthplace Falkirk Stirling married at The English Church to >>>> Hillegonda Sophia Row aged 18 born at The Cape on 3 August 1818 as >>>> published in The >>>> Capetown Gazette. >>>> >>>> Marriage certificate (copy available) Charles Kincaid (widower, >>>> occupation >>>> Sadler) married in Paarl South Africa to Christina Johanna Maria >>>> Sporkman >>>> (widow). >>>> >>>> Death certificate #2505 (copy available) Charles Kincaid born in >>>> Scotland, >>>> married died on 5 March 1866. Lists the children of his 2nds wife's >>>> previous marriage and John Robert Kincaid as son with Hillegonda >>>> Sophia. >>>> >>>>> From the National Archives of South Africa - Charles Kincaid will >>>>> filed >>>> 1866. >>>> >>>>> From the South African Commercial Advisor - (1) 1826, a daughter of >>>>> Mr C >>>> Kincaid baptised Jessy, (2) 1829 a son of Mr Charles Kincaid baptised >>>> Alexander Row, (3) 1831 February 4, Sophia Kincaid wife of Mr C >>>> Kincaid died >>>> aged 30 years and 6 months. >>>> >>>> Reference; book - "This I'll Defend, The Story of the Kincaid's by >>>> Bill Kincaid" >>>> >>>> Reference; pamphlet obtained in full from The National Archives of >>>> South >>>> Africa "The Kincaid Family in South Africa" by JJ Scheepers and >>>> confirmed >>>> by >>>> Leonard Kincaid who resides in South Africa son of Joy Scheepers & >>>> Donald >>>> Kincaid descendants of John Robert Kincaid b.1819 at the Cape of Good >>>> Hope. >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> John Kincaid b.10 June 1762 Polmont Stirlingshire Scotland m Margaret >>>> Gaff >>>> (marriage on OPR's shows 20 Nov 1784 Bothkennar & 16 Dec 1784 as the >>>> Proclamation Polmont for both parties) >>>> >>>> Son of Thomas Kincaid and Elizabeth Chiesly (Cheesley) >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Scottish OPR Baptism record 487/0010 0084 13 June 1762, "Thomas >>>> Kincaid & >>>> Elizabeth Chiesly their son named John was born 10 June and baptised >>>> 13 June, witness' Alexander and Robert Kincaid and John Clark". (Copy >>>> Available) >>>> >>>> Scottish OPR marriage record 473/000010/0260 20th November 1784 >>>> marriage >>>> bans, naming John Kincaid if Dalbeath. "(copy available). >>>> >>>> Falkirk Churchyard Grave 184, John Kincaid death 11 February 1794 aged >>>> 33 >>>> years. >>>> >>>> Reference; book - Mitchell, John Fowler. Monumental inscriptions (pre >>>> 1855) >>>> in East Stirlingshire. Edinburgh: Scottish Genealogy Society, 1972]. >>>> "John Kincaid, 1st son of Thos Kincaid & Eliz Chislie, age 33, at >>>> Carronflats on 11 February 1794; John's wife, Margt Gaff, age 85, on 5 >>>> February 1844; John's 1st son, Thos Kincaid, age 63, at Glasgow on 31 >>>> December 1848; John's youngest son, Alex Kincaid, age 17, having >>>> drowned >>>> by >>>> shipwreck on coast of Durham on 27 January 1806; John's 2nd son, John >>>> Kincaid, 76, at Hastings on 23 April 1862, (having entered the army in >>>> 1809 >>>> & served throughout the Peninsular war with Rifle Brigade, knighted >>>> 1852, >>>> senior exon of HM Royal Bodyguard & for many years government >>>> inspector >>>> of >>>> prisons & factories for Scotland); John's (Margt Gaff) only daughter, >>>> Margt >>>> Kincaid, age 71, widow of the late Peter Hardie, merchant in Leith, on >>>> 6 >>>> October 1863; and John's 3rd son, Charles Kincaid, age 73, at Pearl >>>> Cape >>>> of >>>> Good Hope on 5 March 1866" (Note - Information provided by both Peter >>>> A Kincaid, Canada and also Ann Taylor, nee Kincaid England UK and >>>> confirmed >>>> verbally that this Book available from the National Library of >>>> Australia, >>>> Canberra Australia, copies of relevant extracts pending). >>>> >>>> Reference; made available courtesy of Peter A Kincaid, Canada. >>>> "John Kincaid, son of Thomas Kincaid, farmer, Newlands, as heir to >>>> Alexander >>>> Chiesly, Tenant, Newlands, his grandfather, seised, Oct. 18. 1788, -in >>>> part >>>> of Bothkennar called Dalbeith, with Ferry Boat & fishing in Carron, & >>>> Teinds, par. Bothkennar; -on Pr. Chan. Oct. 7. 1788. P.R. 30. 184. >>>> [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, no. 1394. >>>> Registered >>>> 20 October 1788]". >>>> "John Kincaid of Dalbaith, as heir to Elizabeth Chiesly, his mother, >>>> seised, >>>> Oct. 18. 1788, -in part of Bothkennar called Dalbaith, with Ferry >>>> Boat, and >>>> Fishing in Carron, par. Bothkennar; -on Pr. Cl. Con. by himself, Oct. >>>> 18. >>>> 1788. P.R. 30.185. [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, >>>> vol. 1, >>>> no. 1395. Registered 20 October 1788]". >>>> "John Kincaid of Dalbaith, gets Resig. ad Rem. Oct. 18. 1788, -of part >>>> of >>>> Bothkennar called Dalbaith, with Ferry Boat, & Fishing in Carron, par. >>>> Bothkennar; -on Proc. resig. by himself, Oct. 18. 1788. P.R. 30. 186. >>>> [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, no. 1396. >>>> Registered >>>> 20 October 1788]". >>>> "The Trustees of John Kincaid of Dalbaith, seised, Mar. 22. 1800, -in >>>> an >>>> Oxengate of land of Bothkennar called Dalbaith with the Ferry Boat and >>>> part >>>> of the fishing of the Water of Carron, and Teinds; (&2 Oxengates of >>>> land >>>> of >>>> the lands of Bothkennar in warrandice), par. Bothkennar; -under burden >>>> of >>>> ?50 each to John, Alexander, and Charles Kincaid, and 500 Merks Scots >>>> to >>>> Margaret Kincaid, younger children of the said John Kincaid, &c; -on >>>> Disp. >>>> & >>>> Settlement by the said John Kincaid, & Margaret Gaff, his spouse, >>>> Sept. 6. >>>> 1793. P.R. 36.35. [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. >>>> 1, >>>> no. >>>> 3904. Registered 20 May 1800]". >>>> >>>> Reference; book - "This I'll Defend, The Story of the Kincaid's by >>>> Bill Kincaid" >>>> >>>> Reference; Book - "Adventures of The Rifle Brigade" by sibling Sir >>>> John Kincaid detailing his family, father John Kincaid. >>>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Thomas Kincaid b. circa 1731 Falkirk Scotland m Elizabeth Chiesly 12 >>>> July >>>> 1761. >>>> >>>> Son of (unknown - possible either of James Kincaid & Janet Simson, or >>>> John >>>> Kincaid & Jean Kincaid) >>>> >>>> Proven by; >>>> >>>> Marriage record - Scottish OPR Marriage Ban 479/00008 00237 10 July >>>> 1761 >>>> Falkirk, and Scottish OPR Marriage proclamation Polmont 487/00002 0016 >>>> (copies available) this record names Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth >>>> Chielsy but >>>> neither of their parents. >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Other resources used; >>>> Ancestry.com record search for BDM records, Census returns, travel >>>> records, >>>> Australian Electoral Rolls. >>>> Ancestry24.com for South African research re BDM's, Wills and >>>> application >>>> to >>>> remain in the Colony. >>>> Ancestry.Co.ZA to view & purchase South African death records. >>>> Scotslands People (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) record search for OPR >>>> records >>>> re BDM's, Census & Wills. >>>> GISA (Genealogical Institute of South Africa) for South African family >>>> history records. >>>> NAAIRS for South African records re BDM's, Wills and application to >>>> remain >>>> in the Colony etc. >>>> Book - British Residents at The Cape 1795-1819 by David Phillip. >>>> On-Line Book - Extracts of Marriages at The Cape of Good Hope >>>> 1806-1821. >>>> On-Line Book - Extracts of Baptisms at The Cape of Good Hope 1806-1821 >>>> 192.com for UK contacts. >>>> Springvale Crematorium Records for confirming Australian deaths. >>>> The Australian National Archives. >>>> The Australian National Library. >>>> The Victorian Government Public Records Office. >>>> The Victorian Registry of Birth, Deaths & Marriages. >>>> The Daylesford Family History Society. >>>> The Australian WW2 Nominal Roll. >>>> The Kincaid family living in Australia. >>>> Trove - Australian newspapers on line. >>>> London newspaper archives on line. >>>> Edinburgh newspaper archives on line. >>>> The Genealogical Society of South Africa historical newspapers on >>>> line. Google. >>>> >>>> Note - Australia does not have census returns as these are not >>>> archived after the government has collated the data it requires. >>>> >>>> >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> __ >>>> >>>> Footnote's - >>>> >>>> John Kincaid & Margaret Gaff had 5 children; >>>> Son Thomas, a Merchant baptised 30 October 1785, died 31 December >>>> 1848. Married Isabella Balloch 17 January 1818 and produced 5 sons >>>> and 5 daughters >>>> per the OPR records. OPR & BDM records show that 4 of the sons died >>>> without >>>> marrying, and John living in Lancashire unmarried aged 60 yrs in 1881. >>>> Son John Kincaid baptised 29 July 1787, died 23 April 1862. Married >>>> Louisa >>>> Frisbee 19 March 1862, no children. >>>> Son Alexander christened 7 June 1789, died in a shipwreck 27 January >>>> 1806. >>>> Never married, no children. >>>> Son Charles as detailed above in vetting. >>>> Daughter Margaret christened 22 July 1795, died 6 October 1863. >>>> Married Peter Hardie 8 March 1811 and produced 4 sons and 1 daughter. >>>> Both her son's Thomas Kincaid Hardie and John Hardie travelled to >>>> Australia in search >>>> of gold. Thomas married Janet Hoyle in Victoria 1848, returning to the >>>> UK >>>> to >>>> 'live off his own means' as a 'retired Australian Squatter'. John >>>> married >>>> Elizabeth Hoyle in Victoria Australia 1841, this couple also returned >>>> to >>>> the >>>> UK. >>>> >>>> Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisly's son Alexander b.1764 married Jean >>>> Clark. This couple had 6 children, their son Thomas b.1796 was >>>> 'Captain >>>> Thomas Kincaid - Shipmaster' who married Ann Henderson. >>>> Two of Thomas & Ann's sons died overseas - Alexander b.1839 died 1892 >>>> in >>>> Buenos Ayres and James b.1903 died in 1903 Patagonia Argentina. Their >>>> 2nd >>>> eldest of their son's , John George Kincaid born in 1840 founded J G >>>> Kincaid Shipping in Inverclyde. John G Kincaid married Margaret >>>> Grierson, >>>> their eldest son Thomas Lennox Kincaid b.1877 travelled to Australia >>>> settling in NSW. He married there in 1936 and died in December 1940, >>>> (His >>>> death certificate is available). His wife's son by her 1st marriage, >>>> Hilton >>>> Grenville Marcuso who had links to the notorious Kings Cross criminal >>>> underworld, took the Kincaid surname, and died in NSW Australia in >>>> 1975. >>>> >>>> Hillegonda Sophia Row, wife of Charles Kincaid - was born at The Cape >>>> of >>>> Good Hope in 1800 and dies at aged 31 on 4 February 1831 as listed in >>>> the >>>> South African Commercial Adviser. >>>> Hillegonda was the daughter of Englishman Robert Row and Helena >>>> Wilhelma >>>> Aspeling. Helena & Robert married at The Cape on 14 April 1800, she >>>> was >>>> the >>>> widow of Lambrecht Van der Woord and had two children by him (Johanna >>>> Louise >>>> and Jan Christian). >>>> Helena and Robert had 3 other children; >>>> Susannah Frederika Row 1802 - 1831. Susannah married Joseph Cleaver >>>> (soap >>>> manufacturer) in 1823 at Beaufort West and this couple were witness' >>>> to the >>>> marriage of Hillegonda & Charles Kincaid's son Thomas William >>>> Kincaid's baptism at the Dutch Reformed Church in Beaufort West August >>>> 1823. They had >>>> one child, a daughter Ann born in 1824 and died in 1825. Joseph >>>> Cleaver >>>> died in 1824. >>>> Johanna Margaretha Row 1802-1848. Johanna married Samuel Mollett in >>>> 1834. >>>> Robert James Row 1809-1839. >>>> Hillegonda's mother was Hillegonda Kotze also born at The Cape of Good >>>> Hope >>>> as was her mother before her. It was Hillegonda Rows Gr Gr >>>> grandparents that >>>> came to The Cape from Germany and The Nederland's, and her grandfather >>>> Erik >>>> Aspeling from Sweden. >>>> >>>> Charles Kincaid & Hillegonda Row's 1st born son was John Robert >>>> Kincaid >>>> born >>>> 1819. He married Frances Dorothea Fison 10th July 1846, and this >>>> couple >>>> had >>>> six children; >>>> Charles John Kincaid 5 Jan 1848 >>>> Thomas Henrik Herbert Kincaid 20 Apr 1851 - 29 June 1923 (married >>>> Sarah Maria Holmes, and had six children, see below) >>>> Dorothea Christina Kincaid 11 Mar 1853 married Richard Walton >>>> Alexander Frederick Kincaid 10 Apr 1855 >>>> Ellen Elizabeth Kincaid 18 Jan 1857 >>>> Elizabeth Harriette Kincaid 21 Mar 1860 >>>> >>>> Thomas Hendrik Herbert and Sarah Maria Holmes went on to have six >>>> children; >>>> Gertrude Frances Kincaid 16 Jul 1884 >>>> Percy Frederick Kincaid 11 Nov 1886 - 22 May 1967 married (1) Alice >>>> Maud >>>> Poggenpoel, 2 children John b 15 May 1926 and Maud b 28 Sep 1914 (2) >>>> Iris >>>> Alexandria Morkel, one son Charles Morkel Kincaid b 22 Dec 1932. >>>> (Charles >>>> married Maria VanSchalkwyk and had 2 sons, John 15 Jan 1963 and Paul >>>> in 1965. >>>> Leonard Thomas Kincaid 25 Jan 1888 - 1965, married Charlotte Augusta >>>> Gerhardt. This couple had 3 children; Gwendoline 28 Sep 1916 - 1956, >>>> Roland >>>> Kincaid b.1920 and Donald Kincaid 16 Aug 1929. Donald married Joy >>>> Scheepers >>>> and they had 3 children; Leonard, Gary & Mark Kincaid. >>>> Mildred Constance Kincaid 10 Aug 1891 >>>> Charles Henry Kincaid 24 Sep 1894, married Enid Audrey Holmes (Enid >>>> was >>>> born >>>> in Rockhampton Qld 4 May 1901) >>>> Gwendoline Jessie Holmes Kincaid 31 Oct 1897. >>>> >>>> The information re John Robert Kincaid and his descendants became >>>> available >>>> from a NAAIRS document 'The Kincaid family in South Africa' and a list >>>> of >>>> Kincaid births and marriages purchased from GISA. Leonard Kincaid >>>> (son of >>>> Donald and Joy - see 3 above) who still resides in South Africa, has >>>> confirmed all of the above for me also advising he has 2 sons, Mark >>>> Douglas >>>> Kincaid and Luke Richard Kincaid who also reside in South Africa. >>>> >>>> Thomas Hardie Kincaid born 16 Feb 1849 to Thomas William

Thanks for this message. If it holds up, it looks like it carries my Kincaid lineage back a couple of generations. I really appreciate your efforts. Wilfred Kincaid --On Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:58 AM -0500 Barbara Van Hout <[email protected]> wrote: > Wilfred Kincaid is DNA # 59442 Group A, set 1a, vetted to William > Kincaid/Martha Estill. It was recently shown by deeds that William/Martha > was a son of William/Ann of Virginia, who was a son of John. > > See what Sue wrote here: > http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/kincaid/2010-03/1267747723 > >> From the book "Abstracts of the Wills and Inventories of Bath County, > Virginia, 1791-1842" by Jean Randolph Bruns: > P. 96 > > BATH COUNTY, VA WILL BOOK 2 > p. 265 > Power of attorney from Archibald Kincaid of Madison County, Alabama > Territory, to James Kincaid to convey his interest in land belonging to > the heirs of William Kincaid, Nov. 10, 1818. Wit: Samuel Given Jr., > executed in Alabama Territory. > > p. 267 > Power of attorney by William Kincaid of Madison Co., Alabama Territory, to > Ann Kincaid for the same purpose as above. > > > > "I had an uncle who was a lawyer in Brazil, but I thought none of his > family remained there after his death. But of course his law firm could > have retained the name." > > Wilfred Kincaid > > > Barbara > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lesley Cains > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 2:44 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 439 > > Thanks everyone > Yes, Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Chislie had 4 children; > > John Kincaid who married Margaret Gaff (as detailed in my vetting post) > Thomas Kincaid baptised 13-Apr-1766 and died in 1767. > Elizabeth Kincaid baptised 15-Nov-1767 (IGI has a marriage to a James > Hardie, but there are no OPR's) > > And; > Alexander Kincaid christened 15-May-1764 and died 17-Feb-1854. > He married Jean Clark and had six children (Thomas, John, Marion, James, > Alexander and Thomas); > > Thomas Kincaid 1790-1794 = died in childhood so N/A for DNA > > John Kincaid 1801-1808 = died in childhood so N/A for DNA > > Marion Kincaid 1792 - ?? = Female so N/A for DNA > > James Kincaid b.09-Apr-1794, died 7-Jul-1855 at orchid Hill, he married > 1st to Janet Hill 18-Apr-1842, Janet died 1-Jul-1842 (no children), then > James married in June 1843 to Agnes Wilson and they had 4 daughters > (Agnes Cook Kincaid, Jane Clarke Kincaid, Margaret Kincaid and Mary > Kincaid) = all Female so N/A for DNA. > > Alexander Kincaid b.17-Jul-1798, there is an OPR marriage to Elizabeth > Smith in Polmont 30-Jan-1813, unfortunately there are no parents > mentioned on this OPR, and with the prolific naming of Alexander, I'm > hesitant to say categorically this is the one. However, this couple did > produce nine children (Alexander, Margaret, twins Janet & Elizabeth, > Agnes, Jean, James, Janet with youngest child John born 1826 possibly > being Major John Kincaid-Smith). I purchased the will of an Alexander > Kincaid who died in 1849 stating he was widow of Elizabeth Smith and a > farmer of Bowhouse Parish of Polmont. This document does not match up > regarding all of his children's names, it mentions his sons Alexander & > John only - could be son James was dead or out of favour ? and only > mentioning daughters Margaret, Elizabeth, Jane (one could presume Jane to > be Jean ) & Jessie ?? From the book - Stirlingshire Monumental > inscriptions, it appears there were three tablets positioned together > (implying close members of a family unit ?) written as chn are Janet, > Agnes & Jas near Alexander & Elizabeth Kincaid. I'm still following up on > this one. > > And, Thomas "Captain' Kincaid b.26-Sep-1796 and died 18-Mar-1884 who > married Ann Henderson on 2-Jul-1838 did produce 10 children; > Alexander Kincaid 1839-1892 > John George Kincaid 1840-1924 > Janet Kincaid 1842- ? > Ann Jane Kincaid 1849- ? > Marion Kincaid 1845-1930 > James Kincaid 1847-1903 > Elizabeth Kincaid 1848- ? > Charles Stewart Kincaid 1851-1924 > William Clark Kincaid 1854-1908 > > So considering these six sons of Captain Thomas Kincaid & Ann Henderson; > > 1) Alexander b.30-May-1839, d.29-Jul-1892 238 Calle Son Martin, Buenos > Ayres, I can find no marriage or children for him. > http://www.argbrit.org/Saudades/Saudades.htm > > 2) John George Kincaid, founder of John G Kincaid & Co, b.3-Oct-1840 and > died 26-Apr-1924 married Margaret Grierson 8-Sep-1875. > Probate confirmed by son's James Scott, Randal Grierson & Henderson > Kincaid > > This couple had six sons = > > i) Thomas Lennox Kincaid b.1877 and died in Randwick NSW Australia 1940 (I > have his death certificate which records his 2 marriages in Australia and > that there were no children - the man who called himself Hilton Granville > Kincaid was actually the son of his 2nd wife, who changed his surname from > Marcosso to Kincaid, let me know if you want details on this one, the > Australian Newspaper archives are available on Google search). > > ii) James Scott Kincaid b.24-Mar-1878 d.30-Jul-1940 > Married 1st to Constance Isobel Mackellar 01-Feb-1908 in Glasgow, > Constance died in 1929, James remarried in Westminster 1934 to Jean > Cumming. The probate for James was confirmed by Jean Cumming widow and > Randal G Kincaid. I have been unable to find records of any children by > either marriages. > > iii) John George Kincaid b.1881, d.4-Aug-1909 > I have been unable to find records of any marriage or children > > iv) Henderson Kincaid b.30-Mar-1884, d.1927 Dorking Surrey > Married Marion Arnot Sloan 29-Jul-1913 Greenock > I have been unable to find any children > > v) Stewart Grierson Kincaid b.9-Jan-1890, d.5-Dec-1890 > > vi) Randal Grierson Kincaid b.28-May-1892, d.1984 Hastings > Randal married twice, 1st in London 1928 to Frances G Irvine (shipping > records also show this couple travelling), 2nd to Pauline (Lillie) Johnson > in Battle, Sussex 1939. Again, shipping records show this couple travelled > considerably. No children found > > 3) Thomas Kincaid b.29-Apr-1843, died 8-Jan-1903 Buenos Ayres although he > was 59 yrs old I can find no marriage or children for him. > > 4) James Kincaid b.11-Sep-1847, d.18-Oct-1903 Patagones Argentina I can > find no marriage or children for him, certainly none were mentioned on his > probate which was confirmed by William Clark Kincaid. > > 5) Charles Stewart Kincaid b.14-Jan-1851, d. 19-Jan-1924 > Probate confirmed by James Scott Kincaid & Henderson Kincaid, no mention > of a wife or children, and no records found. > > 6) William Clark Kincaid b. 30-Nov-1854, d.17-Dec-17-Dec-1908 I can find > no marriage or children for him, certainly none were mentioned on his > probate confirmed by Charles Stewart Kincaid and Randal Grierson Kincaid > > An Interesting article on this family can be found at; > http://sites.google.com/site/inverclydeshipbuilding/home/inverclyde-engin > eer ing-companies/kincaids > but sadly it would seem no ongoing DNA. > > I do wonder with all the travelling these Kincaid men did, (as well as Sir > John Kincaid, and his nephew Thomas William kincaid) that, well boys will > be boys, perhaps once genetic DNA testing becomes more > affordable/popular will we uncover some more Kincaids? > > ____________________________________________________ > > Looking back at John Kincaid & Margaret Gaff who had five children; > > Charles Kincaid born 3-May-1791 who died in Paarl South Africa as detailed > in my vetting > Also > Alexander born 1789 and died at Sea aged 17 years in 1806 = No DNA > Margaret Kincaid bap.22-Jul-1795, died 6-Oct-1863 who married Peter Hardie > 8-Mar-1811 > John Kincaid (Sir John Kincaid) bap.29-Jul-1787, died in Sussex > 23-Apr-1862. Sir John married Louisa Frisbee on 19-Mar-1862 at Notting > Hill (certificate available on Ancestry.com), his will mentions sole > executrix as Dame Louisa Kincaid. No children recorded so no DNA > And .. > Thomas Kincaid bap.30-Oct-1785, died 31-Dec-1848 Glasgow, married Isabella > Balloch in 1818. This couple had eleven children (Isabella, John, William > Balloch, Thomas, Alexander, Charles Gaff, Isabella, Margaret, Mary and > Jane). > So, looking at the five boys - > > i) John Kincaid 1820- > I have not been able to confirm a death date, the last census return found > was 1881, showing John Kincaid born 1820, single and a cotton merchant > born Stirlingshire Scotland and a boarder in Manchester. > > ii) William Balloch Kincaid 1822-1835 (Note; this OPR has no age for the > William Kincaid, however I have been unable to find any other record for > him at all in any search engine). > iii) Thomas Kincaid b.05-May-1824, died 1906. Probate confirms census that > Thomas was single, retired merchant and that he lived with his spinster > sister Margaret who died the same year. The probate was confirmed by > William Clark Kincaid and John Brownrigg Balloch. No marriage records, no > children). > > iv) Alexander Kincaid b.1827, died 1847 > > v) Charles Gaff Kincaid 1828-1849 in Devon. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2010 12:37 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 439 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 (Peter A. Kincaid) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:36:20 -0400 > From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=original > > These are of the Thomas Kincaid/Elizabeth Chiesly line. Henderson > is a grandson of Captain Thomas. He was John George Kincaid's > son. > > I believe you missed: > > A son to Mr & Mrs Thomas Kincaid born at Quarry Bank, Greenock > on 14th January 1851 [Greenock Advertiser, Greenock, UK. > 17 January 1851]. > > This would be Charles Stewart Kincaid. Charles Stewart, son of > Thomas Kincaid and Ann Henderson, was baptized on 28 January 1851 > at West (Old) Parish, Greenock. > > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:47 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 > > >> Lesley, are these Kincaids from your family line? I did not see the >> first son of Capt. Thomas on this website. Henderson Kincaid may have >> been a grandson of Capt. Thomas or was he the first son? The marriage >> date seems too late for him to have been Thomas/Ann's son. >> >> KINCAID Captain Thomas Kincaid to Ann, only daughter of late Captain John >> Henderson, Port >> Glasgow, at Wood Cottage, Greenock on 2nd July 1838 by Reverend Menzies. >> (Greenock >> Advertiser 2.7.1838) see Ann H >> >> KINCAID Ann Henderson, wife of Captain Thomas Kincaid, died at >> Corriebank, 11 Eldon Street >> Greenock on 2nd January 1883 age 69. (Greenock Advertiser & Greenock >> Telegraph >> 3.1.1883) see Elizabeth; Captain Thomas >> >> KINCAID Henderson Kincaid, Greenock, to Marion Arnot, elder daughter of >> William A. Sloan, >> Larkfield, at St James?, Kilmacolm on 29th July 1913 ? p2. (Greenock >> Telegraph 30.7.1913) >> >> >> KINCAID James, 4th son of late Thomas Kincaid, Corriebank, Greenock, died >> at >> Patagones, >> Argentine on 18th October 1903 (Greenock Telegraph 13.11.1903) see Thomas >> >> KINCAID Thomas, 3rd son of late Thomas Kincaid, Corrie Bank, Greenock >> died at Buenos Ayres on >> 8th January 1903 (Greenock Telegraph 10.1.1903) James: Thomas(1884) >> >> >> KINCAID John George, 2nd son of Thomas, Kincaid, Greenock to Margaret >> Grierson, only daughter of >> James Scott, at Kirtlington, Oxford on 8th September 1875 (Greenock >> Telegraph 11.9.1875) >> >> KINCAID William Clark Kincaid, commission agent, youngest son of the late >> Thomas Kincaid, died at >> Corrie Bank, Greenock on 17th December 1908 (Greenock Telegraph >> 18.12.1908) >> see >> Thomas >> >> >> > http://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/GetAsset.aspx?id=fAAyADUANQAwAHwAfABGAGEAbAB > zAG UAfAB8ADAAfAA1 >> >> Barbara >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lesley Cains >> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 5:47 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >> >> OMG - obvious typo's - message edited/corrected below with CAPITALS with >> sincere apologies; >> >> Yes, I have looked at the 26-Jun-1730 marriage of JAMES & Janet (OPR >> 479/00 >> 0080 0081 Falkirk reads James Kincaid son of Thomas in Dalderse to Janet >> Simpson daughter of Ales Simpson in Kerse). >> The birth record of their son THOMAS (OPR 470/00 0030 0525 Falkirk >> 11-Jul-1731 witness Alex Simpson and John Kincaid) But ...... >> On 24-Jun-1725 (OPR 479/00 0080 0040 Falkirk) a John Kincaid married a >> Jean >> Kincaid (John Kincaid in Grange son to John Kincaid in Candie to Jean >> Kincaid daughter of Thomas Kincaid in Dalderse. >> The birth record of their son THOMAS (OPR 479/00 0030 0511 Falkirk >> 17-May-1730 witness John Kincaid and Tom Watts. >> >> Both THOMAS Kincaid's born 1730 and 1731 could well be the husband of >> Elizabeth Chiesly (Their wedding OPR's do not show any parents names) - >> Both >> possible fathers of THOMAS Kincaid gave their children similar names, >> making research difficult. >> Though it does look like the common link may be Thomas Kincaid (father of >> both James & Jean) from Dalderse. This would mean the DNA from Thomas in >> Dalderse could be from the Paternal line if JAMES & Janet were parents or >> Maternal if John & Jean were. >> >> Then, if the parents of THOMAS kincaid born 1730/1731 were John and Jean, >> that means I'm looking at a paternal line from John Kincaid in Candie ??? >> I think this would then be a different Kincaid line to Gene from the >> Kincaid >> DNA database. >> >> Thinking logically, following Scottish tradition of naming the 1st born >> male >> child after the child's grandfather, consider John & Jean being the >> parents, they had seven children, the first born son was Thomas, John's >> father was named John. The second son was named Alexander, Jean's father >> was named Thomas (clearly no tradition in this family. >> James & Janet had 13 children and their eldest was named Thomas, James' >> father was named Thomas, Janet's father was Alexander and she named her >> 2nd >> son Alexander. >> >> So to finding other possible DNA samples; Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 >> other children besides John (daughter Elizabeth and son Thomas who died >> in infancy >> - so they are of no help) Their son Alexander (1764-1854) married Jean >> Clark, they had 6 children (1) Thomas 1790-1794 (2) Marion 1792- ? (3) >> James >> 1794- 1855 Orchard Hill married twice, Agnes White and Anne Henderson and >> only had daughters. (4) Thomas (Captain Thomas Kincaid 1796-1884) married >> Anne Henderson, his family is well documented via his 2nd son's shipping >> business John G Kincaid & Co in Renfrewshire, and his other son's travels >> to >> Patagonia Buenos Aires. >> Note, I have not been able to find any of this family line researching >> their >> family tree, and have had no contact with anyone who may be able to help >> (can't really phone up from Australia and say "G'day , sorry to bother >> you but I think you are related to my son from way back in the 1700's and >> would >> you mind just submitting your DNA for me" ...... >> (5) Alexander Kincaid born 1798, I had thought he married Elizabeth Smith >> and that it was his son who became Major John Smith-Kincaid, but recent >> communication with Eric Kincaid's family has now thrown a question about >> this line with the possibility of 2 Alexander & Elizabeths. (6) John >> (1801-1808). >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On >> Behalf Of [email protected] >> Sent: Sunday, 12 December 2010 1:37 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >> &Elizabeth Chi... (Peter A. Kincaid) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 11:35:22 -0400 >> From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >> &Elizabeth Chi... >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Except that the 17-May-1730 and 11-Jul-1731 baptisms she >> cites were not for a son John but for sons named Thomas. It >> wasThomas Kincaid who married Elizabeth Chiesly not John >> Kincaid. >> >> Just to be clear, even if a mother was a Kincaid when >> we do Y-DNA testing it is the father's DNA that is being >> passed on. There would be no Y-DNA trace of the mother >> in a participant today. >> >> Unfortunately, it is quite likely that the participant has a >> separate paternal lineage than the ancestor in question >> because they match no other Kincaid. Until a matching >> result is found for a participant in another branch of Thomas, >> one assumes that the participant's Y-DNA is not representative >> of the Kincaids of Dalderse or Grange or Candie. Legally >> the participant represents the line but genetic representation is >> another matter. >> >> Peter >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:50 AM >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >> &Elizabeth Chi... >> >> >>> WOW - this is a wonderful, thoughtful and scholarly piece of research. >>> Thank you for sharing this with the List. >>> >>> Ruth >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 12/10/2010 8:13:25 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >>> [email protected] writes: >>> >>> Thank you Barbara >>> >>> Yes, I have looked at the 26-Jun-1730 marriage of John & Janet (OPR >>> 479/00 >>> 0080 0081 Falkirk reads James Kincaid son of Thomas in Dalderse to >>> Janet Simpson daughter of Ales Simpson in Kerse). >>> The birth record of their son John (OPR 470/00 0030 0525 Falkirk >>> 11-Jul-1731 >>> witness Alex Simpson and John Kincaid) >>> But ...... >>> On 24-Jun-1725 (OPR 479/00 0080 0040 Falkirk) a John Kincaid married a >>> Jean >>> Kincaid (in Grange son to John Kincaid in Candie to Jean Kincaid >>> daughter >>> of >>> Thomas Kincaid in Dalderse. >>> The birth record of their son John (OPR 479/00 0030 0511 Falkirk >>> 17-May-1730 >>> witness John Kincaid and Tom Watts. >>> >>> Both John Kincaid's born 1730 and 1731 could well be the husband of >>> Elizabeth Chiesly (Their wedding OPR's do not show any parents names) - >>> Both possible fathers of John Kincaid gave their children similar >>> names, making research difficult. >>> Though it does look like the common link may be Thomas Kincaid (father >>> of >>> James & Jean) from Dalderse. This would mean the DNA from Thomas in >>> Dalderse >>> could be from the Paternal line if John & Janet were parents or >>> Maternal if >>> John & Jean were. >>> >>> Then, if the parents of John kincaid born 1730/1731 were John and Jean, >>> that >>> means I'm looking at a line from John Kincaid in Candie ??? >>> I think this would then be a different Kincaid line to Gene from the >>> Kincaid >>> DNA database. >>> >>> Thinking logically, following Scottish tradition of naming the 1st born >>> male >>> child after the child's grandfather, consider John & Jean being the >>> parents, they had seven children, the first born son was Thomas, John's >>> father was named John. The second son was named Alexander, Jean's >>> father >>> was named Thomas (clearly no tradition in this family) >>> James & Janet had 13 children and their eldest was named Thomas, James' >>> father was named Thomas, Janet's father was Alexander and she named her >>> 2nd >>> son Alexander. >>> >>> So to finding other possible DNA samples; >>> Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 other children besides John (daughter >>> Elizabeth >>> and son Thomas who died in infancy - so they are of no help) >>> Their son Alexander (1764-1854) married Jean Clark, they had 6 children >>> (1) >>> Thomas 1790-1794 (2) Marion 1792- ? (3) James 1794- 1855 Orchard Hill >>> married twice, Agnes White and Anne Henderson and only had daughters. >>> (4) >>> Thomas (Captain Thomas Kincaid 1796-1884) married Anne Henderson, his >>> family >>> is well documented via his 2nd son's shipping business John G Kincaid & >>> Co >>> in Renfrewshire, and his other son's travels to Patagonia Buenos Aires. >>> Note, I have not been able to find any of this family line researching >>> their >>> family tree, and have had no contact with anyone who may be able to >>> help (can't really phone up from Australia and say "G'day , sorry to >>> bother you >>> but I think you are related to my son from way back in the 1700's and >>> would >>> you mind just submitting your DNA for me" ...... >>> (5) Alexander Kincaid born 1798, I had thought he married Elizabeth >>> Smith >>> and that it was his son who became Major John Smith-Kincaid, but recent >>> communication with Eric Kincaid's family has now thrown a question >>> about this line with the possibility of 2 Alexander & Elizabeths. (6) >>> John (1801-1808). >>> >>> Interesting article at >>> >> > http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/corporate_neighbourhood/housing/polici > es_ >>> and_strategies/PDFs/dawson/april_2006_newsletter.pdf >>> >>> The farmer occupying Dalderse Mill Farm in 1876 were the >>> Kincaid family and in 1810 it was Thomas McGregor and he >>> was succeed by Andrew Mackie who died in 1831. >>> The farmer at Dalderse Farm in 1871 was Robert Buchan >>> and his farmland appears to be the area that was the >>> grounds of Dalderse Mansion House, north and west of >>> Bainsford Burn. >>> In 1876, about halfway between Dalderse Farmhouse and >>> the Forth & Clyde Canal on Abbot's Road, a large house >>> Orchard Hall was built and it had quite large grounds. >>> The owners were Alex. Vernon Macall, Fleet Paymaster of >>> H.M. Navy, Southsea, his wife, Jane Clark Kincaid or Macall >>> and her sister, Margaret Kincaid. However by 1891, Margaret >>> Walker Forrester was apparently living at Orchard Hall. >>> >>> Note - Jane Clark Kincaid was the daughter of James Kincaid and Agnes >>> Wilson >>> born in 1846, her father died at Orchard Hill and she had a sister >>> Margaret. >>> Back to John Kincaid born 1730/1731, the common grandfather was Thomas >>> Kincaid of Dalderse to both possible sets of John's parents. >>> >>> All suggestions, comments etc gratefully received. >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On >>> Behalf Of [email protected] >>> Sent: Saturday, 11 December 2010 8:37 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 429 >>> >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Kincaids of Edinburgh in the 1500's (Barbara Van Hout) >>> 2. Re: Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid and >>> Elizabeth Chielsy (Barbara Van Hout) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 14:29:11 -0500 >>> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaids of Edinburgh in the 1500's >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >>> >>> >> > http://www.electricscotland.com/history/records/scottishrecordso31scotuof > t.p >>> df >>> >>> There is a David Kincaid, wife Elizabeth or Isabel Cockburn, with a son >>> John >>> Kincaid in these records. Also mentioned are Cuthbert Kincaid, James >>> Kincaid, Sr. & Jr., Stephen Kincaid, and Edward Kincaid, Burgess of >>> Edinburgh. >>> >>> The list is on p. 113 of the above link to the ?Protocol Book of >>> Gilbert Grote, 1552-1573.? >>> >>> How were the Edinburgh Kincaids related to the James Kincaid family of >>> Campsie? >>> >>> >>> Barbara >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:36:40 -0500 >>> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >>> and Elizabeth Chielsy >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> Sue, I agree with you that it would be good to get another sample from >>> this >>> Kincaid family of Falkirk. >>> >>> The Family Search website gives James Kincaid (son of Thomas) and Janet >>> Simson/Simpson (daughter of Alexander) as the parents of Thomas >>> Kincaid/Elizabeth Chiesly. Which Thomas was the possible father of >>> James/Janet who married >>> Aug. 7, 1730 in Falkirk, Sterling, Scotland according to church >>> records. >>> >>> Barbara >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sue Liedtke >>> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 5:29 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas >>> kincaidand >>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>> >>> I agree that the paper work is excellant. Lesley has worked very hard >>> to get >>> all her ducks in a row but I am still hesitent to mark the line as >>> fully vetted without a close match. The problem is not that this isn't >>> a true family line but that a vetted line says that the DNA profile is >>> that of the >>> given ancestor. That is a primary reason for vetting. In this case we >>> don't >>> know if this is Thomas's DNA profile or not. There may have been an >>> unrecorded non-Kincaid paternal event somewhere along the line. >>> >>> It is not just that Martyn doesn't match Gene. If he had matched anyone >>> in >>> any Group, even someone in the ungrouped section if it could be shown >>> that >>> the ancestral lines did not merge in recent times, then I would not a >>> see >>> a >>> problem. >>> >>> All vetted lines have a near DNA match. We held off vetting #168724 >>> until >>> a >>> confirming DNA sample could be tested. Many participants have had to >>> find >>> someone for testing in order to isolate a mutation before they could be >>> vetted to a specific ancestor. >>> >>> I know that Lesley has struck out in trying to get a DNA sample from >>> the line of one of Charles' other sons. I am wondering if it is >>> possible to trace a line down from John? >>> >>> Sue Liedtke >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Don W Kincaid" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas >>> kincaidand >>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>> >>> >>> I believe Lesley has done an excellent job in documenting the lineage >>> of Martyn Stuart Kincaid to Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisley. There >>> are not >>> many who are documented as well as this one. One of the other well >>> documented ones is for Gene Kincaid, #23547 who shows back to Falkirk >>> Parish >>> in Scotland like Martyn shows so I understand Sue's apprehension on >>> vetting >>> Martyn since his dna does not match with 23547. With the excellent >>> documentation for Martyn, I believe we should show him as vetted. One >>> big >>> reason I believe we should vet Martyn is that there could easily be 2 >>> lines >>> of Kincaid's in Falkirk Parish just as we have found 2 different lines >>> of >>> Kincaid's living next to each other in the Colonies in several >>> instances. >>> If >>> we did not have another participant showing to Falkirk Parish, would >>> anyone >>> have an objection to Martyn's lineage being vetted? I doubt anyone >>> would, >>> given the excellent documentation. If vetted, I would not object to >>> having >>> a >>> note stating that dna results have not confirmed Martyn's lineage to >>> Falkirk >>> or a similar statement. >>> >>> Don, # 1427 >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Sue Liedtke >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:40 PM >>> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas >>> kincaidand >>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>> >>> >>> This is the 2nd call for comments on the post seeking to vet #186057 to >>> Thomas/Elizabeth Chiesly. I have asked that comments be directed to the >>> paper trail as a separate entity from the DNA as I have a question as >>> to the >>> advisability of vetting a line without a confirming DNA sample from the >>> furthest ancestor. >>> >>> Normally it takes 2 identical samples from the lines of different sons >>> of >>> a >>> given ancestor to prove the DNA of that ancestor. In most cases we can >>> get >>> around this because we have identical DNA from other Kincaids whose >>> ancestors pre-date the given ancestor or could be descended from the >>> same >>> ancestor by a different son. In cases where there is an unexpected >>> significant mutation, that mutation needs to be isolated before the >>> line can >>> be vetted. As an example:49289 has an unexpected mutation to 9 at >>> marker 15. >>> This is a significant mutation as it is used to separate A-2 Kincaids >>> from >>> A-1 Kincaids, however no other Kincaid (and there are many >>> participants) in >>> the immediate geographic region has this mutation. #49289 could not be >>> vetted until #135736 who does not have the mutation could be vetted to >>> a common ancestor (note other unvetted lines from this ancestor do not >>> have >>> the mutation). >>> >>> In the case of #186057 we do not have identical DNA from anyone else in >>> the >>> project. While Thomas/Elizabeth Chiesly may very well be represented by >>> # 186057's DNA, there is also the possibility that an undisclosed >>> non-Kincaid >>> paternal event occurred somewhere along the line. This needs to be >>> ruled out >>> with confirming DNA. >>> >>> Non the less, it would be of immense value to know if the paper >>> research is >>> sound i.e if the DNA were confirmed could this line be vetted. This >>> would >>> facilitate finding a participant from a different son's line to be >>> tested >>> for confirming DNA. Please look over the paper trail and comment. >>> >>> Sue Liedtke >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Lesley Cains" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:31 AM >>> Subject: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas kincaid and >>> Elizabeth Chielsy >>> >>> >>> >>> Vetting Martyn Stuart Kincaid to Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisley >>> Martyn Kincaid DNA kit #186057 >>> Researcher : Lesley Sharon Cains, mother of Martyn Stuart Kincaid and >>> ex wife of Alan John Kincaid >>> >>> ___________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>> Martyn Stuart Kincaid 'Living' b.1987, Lilydale,Victoria Australia not >>> married. >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Australian birth certificate (original available) for Martyn Stuart >>> Kincaid; >>> parents listed as Alan John Kincaid and Lesley Sharon Kincaid nee >>> Cains. >>> >>> Personal knowledge; I know my son is the son of Alan John Kincaid. >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Alan John Kincaid 'Living" b.1957 Carlton Victoria Australia m Lesley >>> Sharon >>> Cains in 1986 at Numurkah Victoria Australia (certificate available). >>> >>> Son of Bertram Langley Kincaid and Dorothy Dawn Nash. >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Australian birth certificate for Alan John Kincaid listing parents as >>> Bertram Langley Kincaid and Dorothy Dawn Nash. >>> >>> Personal knowledge; I personally know the parents and siblings of Alan >>> John >>> Kincaid all of whom acknowledge him as the son of Bertram Langley >>> Kincaid. >>> >>> The parents and 3 of the 4 siblings of Alan John Kincaid are all still >>> living. >>> >>> The siblings of Alan John Kincaid are Robert Charles Kincaid, Karen >>> Eileen >>> Kincaid, Helen Jean Kincaid and Heather Kincaid (1963-1963). >>> _____________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Bertram Langley Kincaid 'Living' b.1930 Daylesford, Victoria Australia >>> m >>> Dorothy Dawn Nash 16 October 1955 Camberwell Victoria Australia. >>> >>> Son of Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters (both >>> deceased). >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Australian birth certificate for Bertram Langley Kincaid listing his >>> parents >>> as Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters, as confirmed by >>> Bertram Langley Kincaid who resides in Victoria Australia. >>> >>> Australian death certificate's (copies available) for Arthur Charles >>> Nelson >>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Kincaid (nee Waters) listing Bertram Langley >>> Kincaid >>> as their son, and also Bertram's siblings John (dec'd), Eileen (dec'd), >>> Valma and Arthur David. >>> >>> Australian Electoral Roll records 1954 showing Bertram Langley Kincaid >>> living at the home of Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita >>> Kincaid >>> with his siblings Arthur and John. >>> >>> Springvale Victoria Australia crematorium records for Arthur Charles >>> Nelson >>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Kincaid. Website look up; >>> >>> >> > http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php?page=search&s_res=GO&cid=330&Give > n_N >>> ames=&Surname=kincaid&Surname_ex=&hw_num=100 >>> >>> Personal knowledge; I personally knew both parents of Bertram Langley >>> Kincaid and attended their funeral services. >>> I personally knew both Valma Jean Kincaid and Arthur David Kincaid >>> (both >>> now >>> deceased) siblings of Bertram Langley Kincaid. >>> The family also told me of Eileen Hilda Kincaid, sister of Bertram >>> Langley >>> Kincaid who married William St Dennis and migrated to the United >>> States, her >>> social security death index ssn 037-20-3410 Rhode Island date of death >>> August 1976, and California passenger & Crew list showing Eileen St >>> Denis >>> & >>> William St Denis arriving in California 12 Sep 1946, with Eileen on an >>> Australian passport with notation of her maiden name confirms what the >>> family have related to me. >>> Alan John Kincaid also told of Bertram's deceased brother John Charles >>> Kincaid who died alone following an accident in his home in 1978 as >>> proven >>> by his obituary and Springvale Crematorium records. >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid b. 7 January 1902 Daylesford Victoria >>> Australia m Sarah Rita Waters 24 March 1922 Mildura Victoria Australia >>> (certificate available). >>> >>> Son of Charles Langley Kincaid and Elizabeth Nelson. >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Australian birth record #2384 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>> Nelson Kincaid DOB as 7 January 1902 listing his parents as Charles >>> Kincaid (a Miner aged 42) and Elizabeth Kincaid, formerly Nelson (aged >>> 42) living at >>> Eganstown Victoria, who were married 13 April 1891. Siblings shown on >>> the >>> certificate are Grace Cowling Kincaid, Alice Kincaid, Eliza Kincaid, >>> Clarice >>> Kincaid and Helena Kincaid (dec'd). >>> >>> Australian marriage record #558 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>> Nelson >>> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters married on 24 March 1922 at St Margaret's >>> Vicarage Mildura, listing Arthur's father as Charles Langley Kincaid, a >>> Miner as his father and Elizabeth Nelson as his mother. >>> >>> Australian death record #12575/83 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >>> Nelson >>> Kincaid date of death 6 June 1983 at Heatherton Victoria Australia, >>> retired >>> aged 81 years and born in Daylesford Victoria. Fathers name showing as >>> Charles Kincaid and mother as Elizabeth Kincaid (maiden name Nelson), >>> certified by his wife Sarah (known as Rita) Kincaid. This certificate >>> also >>> shows Arthur was 20 years old when he married Sarah Rita Waters in >>> Mildura >>> and that he was still married at the time of his death, children listed >>> as >>> Arthur aged 61 yrs, Valma aged 59 yrs, Eileen (deceased), John >>> (deceased), >>> Bertram aged 53 years. >>> >>> Australian Electoral Roll's for the years 1924, 1931, 1936, 1937 and >>> 1949 >>> detailing his address and family members (available to view on >>> Ancestry.com). >>> >>> An on-line Australian newspaper Archive record detailing the death of >>> his >>> sister Clarice Leona Kincaid and recording that her body was identified >>> by >>> her brother Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid reads; "Found dead in the >>> bush, >>> died from exposure, exhaustion and natural causes (refer to inquest & >>> newpaper articles), VPRS 24/P Unit 1031 File 92 Clarice Leona Kincaid >>> died >>> on or about 28 Dec 1922 from exhaustion during the first stages of >>> labour. >>> Body identified by brother - Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid (stonemason) >>> residing at Victoria park Daylesford. Arthur Angove aged 16 from >>> Daylesord >>> was one of those that found her along with Frank Stevens and James >>> Langdon >>> who were bird nesting on Angus Hill, on the Cornish Reef". (ref; >>> >>> >> > http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1871036?searchTerm=clarice+k > inc >>> aid). >>> >>> Springvale Victoria Crematorium records showing that he was cremated 8 >>> June >>> 1983. >>> >>> Personal knowledge; I personally knew Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and >>> visited his home with Alan John Kincaid, I also attended his funeral >>> service. I identified the address' given in the Australian Electoral >>> Roll's >>> from my visits to his home, and the earlier address' from when I took >>> Sarah >>> Rita Kincaid back To Daylesford and she showed me her old home. Sarah >>> Rita >>> Kincaid also took me to her own parents' grave, explaining that Arthur >>> Charles Nelson Kincaid was a stonemason by trade and made her parents >>> tombstone and many others in the Kyneton & Daylesford area. Sarah told >>> me >>> they had named their son Bertram Langley Kincaid after Arthur's father >>> Charles Langley Kincaid. >>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Charles Langley Kincaid b.21 Apr 1859 Mt Egerton Victoria Australia m >>> Elizabeth Nelson 30 April 1891 Daylesford Victoria (certificate >>> available). >>> >>> Son of Thomas William Kincaid and Eliza Rae. >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Australian birth record #154 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>> Kincaid >>> DOB as 21 April 1859 at Mount Egerton Victoria, details show father as >>> Thomas William Kincaid a Miner in aged 36 years and born Cape of Good >>> Hope, >>> marriage details on this record for Thomas William Kincaid given as >>> "1845 >>> Stepney London", other children "Thomas Kincaid and Alconda Degney >>> Kincaid". >>> Mother as Eliza Kincaid formerly Rae, aged 31 years from Waterford >>> Ireland >>> and signed by Thomas William Kincaid, father. >>> >>> Australian marriage record #4032 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>> Kincaid and Eliza Nelson 30 April 1891 at the Bible Christian parsonage >>> Daylesford. This record details Charles aged as 32 years as son of >>> Thomas >>> William Kincaid a Miner, and Elizabeth Rae. >>> >>> Australian death record #1813 (copy available) for Charles Langley >>> Kincaid, >>> a Miner died 28 May 1931 at the District Hospital Daylesford aged 72 >>> years, >>> his parents are given as Thomas William Kincaid and Elizabeth Kincaid >>> formerly Rae. It shows Charles was buried on 30 May 1931 at Daylesford >>> cemetery and that he was born in Eganstown and had lived in Victoria >>> his whole life. His children are listed as Grace 39 years, Alice 38 >>> years, Myrtle 35 years, Clarice (deceased) and Arthur 29 years. >>> >>> Australian Electoral Roll's for the years 1914, 1924 and 1928 detailing >>> his >>> address and family members. >>> >>> Obituary; (1) THE DAYLESFORD ADVOCATE Friday, May 29, 1931 FUNERAL >>> NOTICE >>> KINCAID -The friends of the late Mr. Charles Langley Kincaid are >>> respectfully informed that his remains will be interred in the >>> Dayiesford >>> Cemetery TOMORROW (Saturday) May 30. The Funeral is appointed to leave >>> the >>> mortuary parlour of R. F. Verey at 1.30 pm. R. F. Verey, Funeral >>> Director. >>> Phone 245. (2) THE DAYLESFORD ADVOCATE Tuesday 2 June, 1931 OBITUARY >>> CHARLES >>> LANGLEY KINCAID The death occurred on Thursday morning last, of Mr >>> Charles >>> Langley Kincaid, after a long illness, at the age of 72 years. The late >>> Mr. >>> Kincaid was born in Eganstown district, and had resided in this >>> locality all >>> his life. For many years he was connected to the mining industry. Mrs. >>> Kincaid and an adult family of three daughters and one son survive to >>> mourn >>> their loss, one daughter having predeceased Mr. Kincaid some years ago. >>> The >>> funeral took place on Saturday afternoon, and was largely attended. The >>> casket was carried by Messrs. M. Dickson, W. Spear, W. Burnett >>> (sons-in-law), C. Nelson (nephew), A. Dickson and J. Dickson. Rev. S. >>> D. Yarrington conducted the service at the graveside, and the funeral >>> arrangements were in the hands of Mr. R. F. Verey. >>> >>> Grave; Grave C of E 4 C 6 In loving memory of Charles Langley Kincaid, >>> Elizabeth Kincaid, and Grace Cowling Dickson died 18 Feb, 1982. >>> >>> The personal knowledge of his grandson Bertram Langley Kincaid, who has >>> confirmed the above for me. >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Thomas William Kincaid b.2 August 1823 Cape of Good Hope, South Africa >>> m (i) >>> Elizabeth Catherine Barrett on 18 May 1845 Stepney London (certificate >>> available). Elizabeth Catherine Barratt died 13 March 1850. This >>> marriage >>> produced one child, Thomas Hardie Kincaid b. 16 February 1849 >>> (certificate >>> available) Rotherhithe England and died 3 February 1929 at Rotherhithe >>> London UK. >>> >>> Thomas William Kincaid b.2 August 1823 Cape of Good Hope, South Africa >>> m (ii) Eliza Rae on 16 Nov 1850 Victoria Australia >>> >>> Son of Charles Kincaid and Hillegonda Sophia Row. >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Beaufort West, South Africa Baptism register on microfilm number 5-39, >>> "Child Thomas William born 2 August 1823, baptised 17 August 1823. >>> Parents >>> Charles Kincaid, Hilegonda [sic] Sophia Roow [sic]. Witnesses Joseph >>> Cleaver, Susanna Frederica Roow [sic], Willem Roow[sic], Anna >>> Roow[sic]". >>> (photograph of document ordered from GISA and available November >>> 2010). >>> >>> Beaufort West South Africa Baptism record, born 2 August 1823, baptised >>> 17 >>> August 1823 as per the SA Genealogies by Lombard & Hesse, page 277 >>> (this record purchased from GISA, Genealogy Institute of South >>> Africa) and also >>> provided by contact with Joy Roy (a descendant of Thomas William >>> Kincaid >>> and professional researcher), Heather McAllister and Tessa King >>> (Administrators for Ancestry24.com). >>> >>> Details taken from the - UK Marriage record for Thomas William Kincaid >>> (of >>> full age, a Mariner Chief Officer - son of Charles Kincaid, a sadler) >>> to Elizabeth Catherine Barratt (with consent of parents) on 18 May >>> 1845 at St >>> Thomas' Church Stepney UK, witnessed by William Brown & Sophia Barratt >>> (copy >>> available). >>> >>> Taken from the - UK Birth record (copy available) of Thomas Hardie >>> Kincaid >>> 16 February 1849, father given as Thomas William Kincaid (Master >>> Mariner) >>> mother as Elizabeth Catherine Kincaid formerly Barratt. >>> >>> Taken from the - Australian Death record #14665 (copy on available) 14 >>> December 1903 at Leonards Hill Victoria Australia, Thomas William >>> Kincaid >>> aged 80 years. His father was recorded as John Kincaid, profession >>> unknown, >>> information on this record was detailed as being provided by his son >>> John >>> Rae Kincaid. He was buried on 16 December 1903 at Eganstown Public >>> cemetery, >>> and shows he had lived 50 years in Victoria. Place of birth given as >>> Cape >>> Town, Cape Colony South Africa, married to Eliza Rae (not living). The >>> children of Thomas William Kincaid are listed as Charles 44 years, >>> Janet 42 >>> years, John 40 years, Margaret 38 years, Annie 36 years, Isabella 34 >>> years, >>> Eliza 32 years, Thomas William 30 years and Alconda (deceased). >>> >>> The Australian birth records (copies available) for the Children of >>> Thomas >>> William Kincaid & Eliza Rae for Charles Langley 1859, John Rae 1863, >>> Annie >>> Eliza 1868, Elizabeth 1873, Thomas William 1875 all detailing the >>> father and >>> his place of birth as The cape of Good Hope. >>> >>> The birth certificate's for Thomas William Kincaid's children; John >>> Rae Kincaid in 1863 details Thomas William Kincaid & Eliza Rae married >>> in Melbourne 1851. On Annie Eliza's record it details 'Melbourne', on >>> Elizabeth's as 16 November 1850 and on Thomas' 1875 birth record as 26 >>> November 1850. >>> >>> Australian death record (copy available) for daughter Alconda Kincaid >>> aged >>> 14 years 27 May 1870 in Eganstown details her parents as Thomas William >>> Kincaid and Eliza Kincaid, and that Alconda was born in Newstead, >>> Melbourne >>> Victoria Australia. >>> >>> The Australian marriage certificate for daughter Janet Hardie Kincaid >>> (copy >>> available) 25 October 1887 shows her parents as Thomas William Kincaid >>> and >>> Eliza Kincaid nee Rae, on her death record in 1933 (copy available) her >>> parents were given as John Kincaid (a Miner) and Eliza Kincaid formerly >>> Rae >>> as provided by S Brown, authorised agent >>> >>> When youngest son Thomas William Kincaid died in 1959 at aged 84 his >>> parents >>> were listed as unknown. >>> >>> Australian 1903 Electoral Roll showing Thomas William Kincaid living at >>> Leonards Hill Victoria, occupation Miner. >>> Australian Rate Books - Mt Franklin Victoria from 1872 - 1902 >>> >>> Australian Newspaper Archive - Daylesford Advocate Thursday 17 December >>> 1903 >>> - The late Mr Kincaid; The remains of Mr T W Kincaid were interred in >>> the >>> Eganstown Public Cemetery yesterday. The funeral started from his late >>> residence at Leonard's Hill and comprised of mourners in eight >>> conveyances >>> and seven horsemen. The bearers were Messers Kramer, Aldridge, McKidrew >>> (2), >>> Ladigus and Blackwell, Mr Taylor read the burial service. Messer's >>> Verey Bros had charge of the mortuary arrangements. >>> _____________________________________________________ >>> >>> Charles Kincaid b.3 May 1791 m (i) Hillegonda Sophia Row on 3 August >>> 1818 >>> Cape of Good Hope (Hillegonda born 1800, died 4 February 1831). >>> >>> Charles Kincaid b.3 May 1791 m (ii) Christina Johanna Marian Sporkman, >>> widow >>> of John Herbert 12 October 1846 Cape of Good Hope (copy available). >>> >>> Son of John Kincaid and Margaret Gaff >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Scottish OPR record 487/0010 0356 (copy on available) detailing "John >>> Kincaid and Margaret Gaff, their son named Charles was born 3 May 1791 >>> and >>> baptised 8 May, witness' Thomas Kincaid and John Gibb". >>> >>> Website - Old Polmont Church (note - please note that not all details >>> on this website are accurate eg Sir John Kincaid given as never >>> married, he in >>> fact married Louisa Frisbee a month before his death). refer >>> www.polmontold.org.uk/hist1845part06.html >>> >>>> From the list of passengers arriving in South Africa on board the Ship >>> 'The >>> Brilliant' in 1817, Charles Kincaid was part of a group of Scottish >>> Artisans >>> organised by Benjamin Moodie. >>> >>>> From the Book - British Residents at the Cape 1795-1819, by David >>>> Phillip >>> page 222, in part reads - "Kincaid, Charles, saddler single arrived 4 >>> June >>> 1817 Table Bay, in Brilliant ex Downs under Moodies direction. 2 August >>> 1817 >>> has commenced business (saddle, cap and harness maker). 3 August 1818 >>> marriage of CK of Falkirk, Stirling aged 27 to Hillegonda Sophia d,o, >>> Robt. >>> Row aged 18. 6 June 1819 baptised their son John Robert. 18 March 1821 >>> baptised of their son Charles Langley". >>> >>>> From the National Archives of South Africa - in 1818 'memorials >>>> received, >>> Charles Kincaid requesting permission to remain in the Colony. >>> >>>> From the National Archives of South Africa - Charles Kincaid aged 27, >>> birthplace Falkirk Stirling married at The English Church to Hillegonda >>> Sophia Row aged 18 born at The Cape on 3 August 1818 as published in >>> The Capetown Gazette. >>> >>> Marriage certificate (copy available) Charles Kincaid (widower, >>> occupation >>> Sadler) married in Paarl South Africa to Christina Johanna Maria >>> Sporkman >>> (widow). >>> >>> Death certificate #2505 (copy available) Charles Kincaid born in >>> Scotland, >>> married died on 5 March 1866. Lists the children of his 2nds wife's >>> previous marriage and John Robert Kincaid as son with Hillegonda >>> Sophia. >>> >>>> From the National Archives of South Africa - Charles Kincaid will >>>> filed >>> 1866. >>> >>>> From the South African Commercial Advisor - (1) 1826, a daughter of >>>> Mr C >>> Kincaid baptised Jessy, (2) 1829 a son of Mr Charles Kincaid baptised >>> Alexander Row, (3) 1831 February 4, Sophia Kincaid wife of Mr C Kincaid >>> died >>> aged 30 years and 6 months. >>> >>> Reference; book - "This I'll Defend, The Story of the Kincaid's by Bill >>> Kincaid" >>> >>> Reference; pamphlet obtained in full from The National Archives of >>> South Africa "The Kincaid Family in South Africa" by JJ Scheepers and >>> confirmed >>> by >>> Leonard Kincaid who resides in South Africa son of Joy Scheepers & >>> Donald >>> Kincaid descendants of John Robert Kincaid b.1819 at the Cape of Good >>> Hope. >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> John Kincaid b.10 June 1762 Polmont Stirlingshire Scotland m Margaret >>> Gaff >>> (marriage on OPR's shows 20 Nov 1784 Bothkennar & 16 Dec 1784 as the >>> Proclamation Polmont for both parties) >>> >>> Son of Thomas Kincaid and Elizabeth Chiesly (Cheesley) >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Scottish OPR Baptism record 487/0010 0084 13 June 1762, "Thomas Kincaid >>> & >>> Elizabeth Chiesly their son named John was born 10 June and baptised 13 >>> June, witness' Alexander and Robert Kincaid and John Clark". (Copy >>> Available) >>> >>> Scottish OPR marriage record 473/000010/0260 20th November 1784 >>> marriage bans, naming John Kincaid if Dalbeath. "(copy available). >>> >>> Falkirk Churchyard Grave 184, John Kincaid death 11 February 1794 aged >>> 33 >>> years. >>> >>> Reference; book - Mitchell, John Fowler. Monumental inscriptions (pre >>> 1855) >>> in East Stirlingshire. Edinburgh: Scottish Genealogy Society, 1972]. >>> "John Kincaid, 1st son of Thos Kincaid & Eliz Chislie, age 33, at >>> Carronflats on 11 February 1794; John's wife, Margt Gaff, age 85, on 5 >>> February 1844; John's 1st son, Thos Kincaid, age 63, at Glasgow on 31 >>> December 1848; John's youngest son, Alex Kincaid, age 17, having >>> drowned by >>> shipwreck on coast of Durham on 27 January 1806; John's 2nd son, John >>> Kincaid, 76, at Hastings on 23 April 1862, (having entered the army in >>> 1809 >>> & served throughout the Peninsular war with Rifle Brigade, knighted >>> 1852, >>> senior exon of HM Royal Bodyguard & for many years government >>> inspector of >>> prisons & factories for Scotland); John's (Margt Gaff) only daughter, >>> Margt >>> Kincaid, age 71, widow of the late Peter Hardie, merchant in Leith, on >>> 6 October 1863; and John's 3rd son, Charles Kincaid, age 73, at Pearl >>> Cape of >>> Good Hope on 5 March 1866" (Note - Information provided by both Peter A >>> Kincaid, Canada and also Ann Taylor, nee Kincaid England UK and >>> confirmed >>> verbally that this Book available from the National Library of >>> Australia, >>> Canberra Australia, copies of relevant extracts pending). >>> >>> Reference; made available courtesy of Peter A Kincaid, Canada. >>> "John Kincaid, son of Thomas Kincaid, farmer, Newlands, as heir to >>> Alexander >>> Chiesly, Tenant, Newlands, his grandfather, seised, Oct. 18. 1788, -in >>> part >>> of Bothkennar called Dalbeith, with Ferry Boat & fishing in Carron, & >>> Teinds, par. Bothkennar; -on Pr. Chan. Oct. 7. 1788. P.R. 30. 184. >>> [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, no. 1394. >>> Registered >>> 20 October 1788]". >>> "John Kincaid of Dalbaith, as heir to Elizabeth Chiesly, his mother, >>> seised, >>> Oct. 18. 1788, -in part of Bothkennar called Dalbaith, with Ferry Boat, >>> and >>> Fishing in Carron, par. Bothkennar; -on Pr. Cl. Con. by himself, Oct. >>> 18. >>> 1788. P.R. 30.185. [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. >>> 1, >>> no. 1395. Registered 20 October 1788]". >>> "John Kincaid of Dalbaith, gets Resig. ad Rem. Oct. 18. 1788, -of part >>> of >>> Bothkennar called Dalbaith, with Ferry Boat, & Fishing in Carron, par. >>> Bothkennar; -on Proc. resig. by himself, Oct. 18. 1788. P.R. 30. 186. >>> [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, no. 1396. >>> Registered >>> 20 October 1788]". >>> "The Trustees of John Kincaid of Dalbaith, seised, Mar. 22. 1800, -in >>> an Oxengate of land of Bothkennar called Dalbaith with the Ferry Boat >>> and part >>> of the fishing of the Water of Carron, and Teinds; (&2 Oxengates of >>> land of >>> the lands of Bothkennar in warrandice), par. Bothkennar; -under burden >>> of >>> ?50 each to John, Alexander, and Charles Kincaid, and 500 Merks Scots >>> to Margaret Kincaid, younger children of the said John Kincaid, &c; -on >>> Disp. >>> & >>> Settlement by the said John Kincaid, & Margaret Gaff, his spouse, Sept. >>> 6. >>> 1793. P.R. 36.35. [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. >>> 1, no. >>> 3904. Registered 20 May 1800]". >>> >>> Reference; book - "This I'll Defend, The Story of the Kincaid's by Bill >>> Kincaid" >>> >>> Reference; Book - "Adventures of The Rifle Brigade" by sibling Sir John >>> Kincaid detailing his family, father John Kincaid. >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Thomas Kincaid b. circa 1731 Falkirk Scotland m Elizabeth Chiesly 12 >>> July >>> 1761. >>> >>> Son of (unknown - possible either of James Kincaid & Janet Simson, or >>> John >>> Kincaid & Jean Kincaid) >>> >>> Proven by; >>> >>> Marriage record - Scottish OPR Marriage Ban 479/00008 00237 10 July >>> 1761 Falkirk, and Scottish OPR Marriage proclamation Polmont 487/00002 >>> 0016 (copies available) this record names Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth >>> Chielsy but >>> neither of their parents. >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Other resources used; >>> Ancestry.com record search for BDM records, Census returns, travel >>> records, >>> Australian Electoral Rolls. >>> Ancestry24.com for South African research re BDM's, Wills and >>> application >>> to >>> remain in the Colony. >>> Ancestry.Co.ZA to view & purchase South African death records. >>> Scotslands People (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) record search for OPR >>> records >>> re BDM's, Census & Wills. >>> GISA (Genealogical Institute of South Africa) for South African family >>> history records. >>> NAAIRS for South African records re BDM's, Wills and application to >>> remain >>> in the Colony etc. >>> Book - British Residents at The Cape 1795-1819 by David Phillip. >>> On-Line Book - Extracts of Marriages at The Cape of Good Hope >>> 1806-1821. On-Line Book - Extracts of Baptisms at The Cape of Good >>> Hope 1806-1821 192.com for UK contacts. >>> Springvale Crematorium Records for confirming Australian deaths. >>> The Australian National Archives. >>> The Australian National Library. >>> The Victorian Government Public Records Office. >>> The Victorian Registry of Birth, Deaths & Marriages. >>> The Daylesford Family History Society. >>> The Australian WW2 Nominal Roll. >>> The Kincaid family living in Australia. >>> Trove - Australian newspapers on line. >>> London newspaper archives on line. >>> Edinburgh newspaper archives on line. >>> The Genealogical Society of South Africa historical newspapers on line. >>> Google. >>> >>> Note - Australia does not have census returns as these are not archived >>> after the government has collated the data it requires. >>> >>> > __________________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Footnote's - >>> >>> John Kincaid & Margaret Gaff had 5 children; >>> Son Thomas, a Merchant baptised 30 October 1785, died 31 December 1848. >>> Married Isabella Balloch 17 January 1818 and produced 5 sons and 5 >>> daughters >>> per the OPR records. OPR & BDM records show that 4 of the sons died >>> without >>> marrying, and John living in Lancashire unmarried aged 60 yrs in 1881. >>> Son John Kincaid baptised 29 July 1787, died 23 April 1862. Married >>> Louisa >>> Frisbee 19 March 1862, no children. >>> Son Alexander christened 7 June 1789, died in a shipwreck 27 January >>> 1806. >>> Never married, no children. >>> Son Charles as detailed above in vetting. >>> Daughter Margaret christened 22 July 1795, died 6 October 1863. Married >>> Peter Hardie 8 March 1811 and produced 4 sons and 1 daughter. Both her >>> son's Thomas Kincaid Hardie and John Hardie travelled to Australia in >>> search >>> of gold. Thomas married Janet Hoyle in Victoria 1848, returning to the >>> UK >>> to >>> 'live off his own means' as a 'retired Australian Squatter'. John >>> married >>> Elizabeth Hoyle in Victoria Australia 1841, this couple also returned >>> to the >>> UK. >>> >>> Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisly's son Alexander b.1764 married Jean >>> Clark. This couple had 6 children, their son Thomas b.1796 was >>> 'Captain Thomas Kincaid - Shipmaster' who married Ann Henderson. >>> Two of Thomas & Ann's sons died overseas - Alexander b.1839 died 1892 >>> in Buenos Ayres and James b.1903 died in 1903 Patagonia Argentina. >>> Their 2nd >>> eldest of their son's , John George Kincaid born in 1840 founded J G >>> Kincaid Shipping in Inverclyde. John G Kincaid married Margaret >>> Grierson, >>> their eldest son Thomas Lennox Kincaid b.1877 travelled to Australia >>> settling in NSW. He married there in 1936 and died in December 1940, >>> (His >>> death certificate is available). His wife's son by her 1st marriage, >>> Hilton >>> Grenville Marcuso who had links to the notorious Kings Cross criminal >>> underworld, took the Kincaid surname, and died in NSW Australia in >>> 1975. >>> >>> Hillegonda Sophia Row, wife of Charles Kincaid - was born at The Cape >>> of Good Hope in 1800 and dies at aged 31 on 4 February 1831 as listed >>> in the >>> South African Commercial Adviser. >>> Hillegonda was the daughter of Englishman Robert Row and Helena >>> Wilhelma Aspeling. Helena & Robert married at The Cape on 14 April >>> 1800, she was the >>> widow of Lambrecht Van der Woord and had two children by him (Johanna >>> Louise >>> and Jan Christian). >>> Helena and Robert had 3 other children; >>> Susannah Frederika Row 1802 - 1831. Susannah married Joseph Cleaver >>> (soap >>> manufacturer) in 1823 at Beaufort West and this couple were witness' to >>> the >>> marriage of Hillegonda & Charles Kincaid's son Thomas William Kincaid's >>> baptism at the Dutch Reformed Church in Beaufort West August 1823. They >>> had >>> one child, a daughter Ann born in 1824 and died in 1825. Joseph >>> Cleaver died in 1824. >>> Johanna Margaretha Row 1802-1848. Johanna married Samuel Mollett in >>> 1834. >>> Robert James Row 1809-1839. >>> Hillegonda's mother was Hillegonda Kotze also born at The Cape of Good >>> Hope >>> as was her mother before her. It was Hillegonda Rows Gr Gr grandparents >>> that >>> came to The Cape from Germany and The Nederland's, and her grandfather >>> Erik >>> Aspeling from Sweden. >>> >>> Charles Kincaid & Hillegonda Row's 1st born son was John Robert >>> Kincaid born >>> 1819. He married Frances Dorothea Fison 10th July 1846, and this >>> couple had >>> six children; >>> Charles John Kincaid 5 Jan 1848 >>> Thomas Henrik Herbert Kincaid 20 Apr 1851 - 29 June 1923 (married Sarah >>> Maria Holmes, and had six children, see below) >>> Dorothea Christina Kincaid 11 Mar 1853 married Richard Walton >>> Alexander Frederick Kincaid 10 Apr 1855 >>> Ellen Elizabeth Kincaid 18 Jan 1857 >>> Elizabeth Harriette Kincaid 21 Mar 1860 >>> >>> Thomas Hendrik Herbert and Sarah Maria Holmes went on to have six >>> children; >>> Gertrude Frances Kincaid 16 Jul 1884 >>> Percy Frederick Kincaid 11 Nov 1886 - 22 May 1967 married (1) Alice >>> Maud Poggenpoel, 2 children John b 15 May 1926 and Maud b 28 Sep 1914 >>> (2) Iris >>> Alexandria Morkel, one son Charles Morkel Kincaid b 22 Dec 1932. >>> (Charles >>> married Maria VanSchalkwyk and had 2 sons, John 15 Jan 1963 and Paul in >>> 1965. >>> Leonard Thomas Kincaid 25 Jan 1888 - 1965, married Charlotte Augusta >>> Gerhardt. This couple had 3 children; Gwendoline 28 Sep 1916 - 1956, >>> Roland >>> Kincaid b.1920 and Donald Kincaid 16 Aug 1929. Donald married Joy >>> Scheepers >>> and they had 3 children; Leonard, Gary & Mark Kincaid. >>> Mildred Constance Kincaid 10 Aug 1891 >>> Charles Henry Kincaid 24 Sep 1894, married Enid Audrey Holmes (Enid >>> was born >>> in Rockhampton Qld 4 May 1901) >>> Gwendoline Jessie Holmes Kincaid 31 Oct 1897. >>> >>> The information re John Robert Kincaid and his descendants became >>> available >>> from a NAAIRS document 'The Kincaid family in South Africa' and a list >>> of >>> Kincaid births and marriages purchased from GISA. Leonard Kincaid (son >>> of >>> Donald and Joy - see 3 above) who still resides in South Africa, has >>> confirmed all of the above for me also advising he has 2 sons, Mark >>> Douglas >>> Kincaid and Luke Richard Kincaid who also reside in South Africa. >>> >>> Thomas Hardie Kincaid born 16 Feb 1849 to Thomas William Kincaid and >>> Elizabeth Catherine Barrett in Stepney, Ratcliff County of Middlesex. >>> His >>> death certificate shows he died on 3 Feb 1829 in Rotherhithe, County of >>> London as witnessed by his daughter Julia Charlotte Howes, nee >>> Kincaid. >>> >>> I am unsure who actually raised Thomas Hardie Kincaid after his mother >>> died >>> in 1850 and his father Thomas William Kincaid left the UK to continue >>> his >>> travels and ultimately end up in Australia. Thomas Hardie Kincaid is >>> mentioned on only one of his ? siblings Australian birth records, and >>> was >>> not listed on his father's Australian death certificate. >>> >>> Thomas Hardie married Sarah Ann Drake in 1867, and after her death >>> married >>> Elizabeth Abel in 1898. Thomas and Sarah had five children; >>> Julia Charlotte Kincaid 1868-1934 >>> William Henry Brooks Kincaid 1870-1943 >>> Sarah Catherine Kincaid 1873-1911 >>> Eliza Elizabeth Kincaid 1878- >>> Annie Brooks Kincaid 1883-1883 >>> Thomas William Brooks Kincaid 1885 - (date of death unconfirmed). >>> Thomas married Alice May Springall and this couple had 6 children, the >>> youngest being Eric David Hardie Kincaid (children's illustrator and >>> Artist. Eric >>> also did the artwork for Bill Kincaid in his book, This I'll Defend - >>> The >>> Story of the Kincaids). These details have been confirmed with Eric's >>> daughter Ann Taylor (nee Kincaid) and his son David Kincaid in the UK. >>> >>> (Further details available if required). >>> >>> Thankyou >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >>> >>> >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Ki > nca >>> id%20%20DNA.xlsTo >>> join the DNA project, go >>> >> > to:www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027------- > --- >>> ---------------------To >>> unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotesin the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >>> >>> >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Ki > nca >>> id%20%20DNA.xls >>> >>> To join the DNA project, go to: >>> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes >>> in the subject and the body of the message >>> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >

Thanks everyone Yes, Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Chislie had 4 children; John Kincaid who married Margaret Gaff (as detailed in my vetting post) Thomas Kincaid baptised 13-Apr-1766 and died in 1767. Elizabeth Kincaid baptised 15-Nov-1767 (IGI has a marriage to a James Hardie, but there are no OPR's) And; Alexander Kincaid christened 15-May-1764 and died 17-Feb-1854. He married Jean Clark and had six children (Thomas, John, Marion, James, Alexander and Thomas); Thomas Kincaid 1790-1794 = died in childhood so N/A for DNA John Kincaid 1801-1808 = died in childhood so N/A for DNA Marion Kincaid 1792 - ?? = Female so N/A for DNA James Kincaid b.09-Apr-1794, died 7-Jul-1855 at orchid Hill, he married 1st to Janet Hill 18-Apr-1842, Janet died 1-Jul-1842 (no children), then James married in June 1843 to Agnes Wilson and they had 4 daughters (Agnes Cook Kincaid, Jane Clarke Kincaid, Margaret Kincaid and Mary Kincaid) = all Female so N/A for DNA. Alexander Kincaid b.17-Jul-1798, there is an OPR marriage to Elizabeth Smith in Polmont 30-Jan-1813, unfortunately there are no parents mentioned on this OPR, and with the prolific naming of Alexander, I'm hesitant to say categorically this is the one. However, this couple did produce nine children (Alexander, Margaret, twins Janet & Elizabeth, Agnes, Jean, James, Janet with youngest child John born 1826 possibly being Major John Kincaid-Smith). I purchased the will of an Alexander Kincaid who died in 1849 stating he was widow of Elizabeth Smith and a farmer of Bowhouse Parish of Polmont. This document does not match up regarding all of his children's names, it mentions his sons Alexander & John only - could be son James was dead or out of favour ? and only mentioning daughters Margaret, Elizabeth, Jane (one could presume Jane to be Jean ) & Jessie ?? From the book - Stirlingshire Monumental inscriptions, it appears there were three tablets positioned together (implying close members of a family unit ?) written as chn are Janet, Agnes & Jas near Alexander & Elizabeth Kincaid. I'm still following up on this one. And, Thomas "Captain' Kincaid b.26-Sep-1796 and died 18-Mar-1884 who married Ann Henderson on 2-Jul-1838 did produce 10 children; Alexander Kincaid 1839-1892 John George Kincaid 1840-1924 Janet Kincaid 1842- ? Ann Jane Kincaid 1849- ? Marion Kincaid 1845-1930 James Kincaid 1847-1903 Elizabeth Kincaid 1848- ? Charles Stewart Kincaid 1851-1924 William Clark Kincaid 1854-1908 So considering these six sons of Captain Thomas Kincaid & Ann Henderson; 1) Alexander b.30-May-1839, d.29-Jul-1892 238 Calle Son Martin, Buenos Ayres, I can find no marriage or children for him. http://www.argbrit.org/Saudades/Saudades.htm 2) John George Kincaid, founder of John G Kincaid & Co, b.3-Oct-1840 and died 26-Apr-1924 married Margaret Grierson 8-Sep-1875. Probate confirmed by son's James Scott, Randal Grierson & Henderson Kincaid This couple had six sons = i) Thomas Lennox Kincaid b.1877 and died in Randwick NSW Australia 1940 (I have his death certificate which records his 2 marriages in Australia and that there were no children - the man who called himself Hilton Granville Kincaid was actually the son of his 2nd wife, who changed his surname from Marcosso to Kincaid, let me know if you want details on this one, the Australian Newspaper archives are available on Google search). ii) James Scott Kincaid b.24-Mar-1878 d.30-Jul-1940 Married 1st to Constance Isobel Mackellar 01-Feb-1908 in Glasgow, Constance died in 1929, James remarried in Westminster 1934 to Jean Cumming. The probate for James was confirmed by Jean Cumming widow and Randal G Kincaid. I have been unable to find records of any children by either marriages. iii) John George Kincaid b.1881, d.4-Aug-1909 I have been unable to find records of any marriage or children iv) Henderson Kincaid b.30-Mar-1884, d.1927 Dorking Surrey Married Marion Arnot Sloan 29-Jul-1913 Greenock I have been unable to find any children v) Stewart Grierson Kincaid b.9-Jan-1890, d.5-Dec-1890 vi) Randal Grierson Kincaid b.28-May-1892, d.1984 Hastings Randal married twice, 1st in London 1928 to Frances G Irvine (shipping records also show this couple travelling), 2nd to Pauline (Lillie) Johnson in Battle, Sussex 1939. Again, shipping records show this couple travelled considerably. No children found 3) Thomas Kincaid b.29-Apr-1843, died 8-Jan-1903 Buenos Ayres although he was 59 yrs old I can find no marriage or children for him. 4) James Kincaid b.11-Sep-1847, d.18-Oct-1903 Patagones Argentina I can find no marriage or children for him, certainly none were mentioned on his probate which was confirmed by William Clark Kincaid. 5) Charles Stewart Kincaid b.14-Jan-1851, d. 19-Jan-1924 Probate confirmed by James Scott Kincaid & Henderson Kincaid, no mention of a wife or children, and no records found. 6) William Clark Kincaid b. 30-Nov-1854, d.17-Dec-17-Dec-1908 I can find no marriage or children for him, certainly none were mentioned on his probate confirmed by Charles Stewart Kincaid and Randal Grierson Kincaid An Interesting article on this family can be found at; http://sites.google.com/site/inverclydeshipbuilding/home/inverclyde-engineer ing-companies/kincaids but sadly it would seem no ongoing DNA. I do wonder with all the travelling these Kincaid men did, (as well as Sir John Kincaid, and his nephew Thomas William kincaid) that, well boys will be boys, perhaps once genetic DNA testing becomes more affordable/popular will we uncover some more Kincaids? ____________________________________________________ Looking back at John Kincaid & Margaret Gaff who had five children; Charles Kincaid born 3-May-1791 who died in Paarl South Africa as detailed in my vetting Also Alexander born 1789 and died at Sea aged 17 years in 1806 = No DNA Margaret Kincaid bap.22-Jul-1795, died 6-Oct-1863 who married Peter Hardie 8-Mar-1811 John Kincaid (Sir John Kincaid) bap.29-Jul-1787, died in Sussex 23-Apr-1862. Sir John married Louisa Frisbee on 19-Mar-1862 at Notting Hill (certificate available on Ancestry.com), his will mentions sole executrix as Dame Louisa Kincaid. No children recorded so no DNA And .. Thomas Kincaid bap.30-Oct-1785, died 31-Dec-1848 Glasgow, married Isabella Balloch in 1818. This couple had eleven children (Isabella, John, William Balloch, Thomas, Alexander, Charles Gaff, Isabella, Margaret, Mary and Jane). So, looking at the five boys - i) John Kincaid 1820- I have not been able to confirm a death date, the last census return found was 1881, showing John Kincaid born 1820, single and a cotton merchant born Stirlingshire Scotland and a boarder in Manchester. ii) William Balloch Kincaid 1822-1835 (Note; this OPR has no age for the William Kincaid, however I have been unable to find any other record for him at all in any search engine). iii) Thomas Kincaid b.05-May-1824, died 1906. Probate confirms census that Thomas was single, retired merchant and that he lived with his spinster sister Margaret who died the same year. The probate was confirmed by William Clark Kincaid and John Brownrigg Balloch. No marriage records, no children). iv) Alexander Kincaid b.1827, died 1847 v) Charles Gaff Kincaid 1828-1849 in Devon. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2010 12:37 AM To: [email protected] Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 439 Today's Topics: 1. Re: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 (Peter A. Kincaid) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 10:36:20 -0400 From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original These are of the Thomas Kincaid/Elizabeth Chiesly line. Henderson is a grandson of Captain Thomas. He was John George Kincaid's son. I believe you missed: A son to Mr & Mrs Thomas Kincaid born at Quarry Bank, Greenock on 14th January 1851 [Greenock Advertiser, Greenock, UK. 17 January 1851]. This would be Charles Stewart Kincaid. Charles Stewart, son of Thomas Kincaid and Ann Henderson, was baptized on 28 January 1851 at West (Old) Parish, Greenock. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 > Lesley, are these Kincaids from your family line? I did not see the first > son of Capt. Thomas on this website. Henderson Kincaid may have been a > grandson of Capt. Thomas or was he the first son? The marriage date seems > too late for him to have been Thomas/Ann's son. > > KINCAID Captain Thomas Kincaid to Ann, only daughter of late Captain John > Henderson, Port > Glasgow, at Wood Cottage, Greenock on 2nd July 1838 by Reverend Menzies. > (Greenock > Advertiser 2.7.1838) see Ann H > > KINCAID Ann Henderson, wife of Captain Thomas Kincaid, died at Corriebank, > 11 Eldon Street > Greenock on 2nd January 1883 age 69. (Greenock Advertiser & Greenock > Telegraph > 3.1.1883) see Elizabeth; Captain Thomas > > KINCAID Henderson Kincaid, Greenock, to Marion Arnot, elder daughter of > William A. Sloan, > Larkfield, at St James?, Kilmacolm on 29th July 1913 ? p2. (Greenock > Telegraph 30.7.1913) > > > KINCAID James, 4th son of late Thomas Kincaid, Corriebank, Greenock, died > at > Patagones, > Argentine on 18th October 1903 (Greenock Telegraph 13.11.1903) see Thomas > > KINCAID Thomas, 3rd son of late Thomas Kincaid, Corrie Bank, Greenock died > at Buenos Ayres on > 8th January 1903 (Greenock Telegraph 10.1.1903) James: Thomas(1884) > > > KINCAID John George, 2nd son of Thomas, Kincaid, Greenock to Margaret > Grierson, only daughter of > James Scott, at Kirtlington, Oxford on 8th September 1875 (Greenock > Telegraph 11.9.1875) > > KINCAID William Clark Kincaid, commission agent, youngest son of the late > Thomas Kincaid, died at > Corrie Bank, Greenock on 17th December 1908 (Greenock Telegraph > 18.12.1908) > see > Thomas > > > http://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/GetAsset.aspx?id=fAAyADUANQAwAHwAfABGAGEAbABzAG UAfAB8ADAAfAA1 > > Barbara > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lesley Cains > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 5:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 > > OMG - obvious typo's - message edited/corrected below with CAPITALS with > sincere apologies; > > Yes, I have looked at the 26-Jun-1730 marriage of JAMES & Janet (OPR > 479/00 > 0080 0081 Falkirk reads James Kincaid son of Thomas in Dalderse to Janet > Simpson daughter of Ales Simpson in Kerse). > The birth record of their son THOMAS (OPR 470/00 0030 0525 Falkirk > 11-Jul-1731 witness Alex Simpson and John Kincaid) But ...... > On 24-Jun-1725 (OPR 479/00 0080 0040 Falkirk) a John Kincaid married a > Jean > Kincaid (John Kincaid in Grange son to John Kincaid in Candie to Jean > Kincaid daughter of Thomas Kincaid in Dalderse. > The birth record of their son THOMAS (OPR 479/00 0030 0511 Falkirk > 17-May-1730 witness John Kincaid and Tom Watts. > > Both THOMAS Kincaid's born 1730 and 1731 could well be the husband of > Elizabeth Chiesly (Their wedding OPR's do not show any parents names) - > Both > possible fathers of THOMAS Kincaid gave their children similar names, > making research difficult. > Though it does look like the common link may be Thomas Kincaid (father of > both James & Jean) from Dalderse. This would mean the DNA from Thomas in > Dalderse could be from the Paternal line if JAMES & Janet were parents or > Maternal if John & Jean were. > > Then, if the parents of THOMAS kincaid born 1730/1731 were John and Jean, > that means I'm looking at a paternal line from John Kincaid in Candie ??? > I think this would then be a different Kincaid line to Gene from the > Kincaid > DNA database. > > Thinking logically, following Scottish tradition of naming the 1st born > male > child after the child's grandfather, consider John & Jean being the > parents, they had seven children, the first born son was Thomas, John's > father was named John. The second son was named Alexander, Jean's father > was named Thomas (clearly no tradition in this family. > James & Janet had 13 children and their eldest was named Thomas, James' > father was named Thomas, Janet's father was Alexander and she named her > 2nd > son Alexander. > > So to finding other possible DNA samples; Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 other > children besides John (daughter Elizabeth and son Thomas who died in > infancy > - so they are of no help) Their son Alexander (1764-1854) married Jean > Clark, they had 6 children (1) Thomas 1790-1794 (2) Marion 1792- ? (3) > James > 1794- 1855 Orchard Hill married twice, Agnes White and Anne Henderson and > only had daughters. (4) Thomas (Captain Thomas Kincaid 1796-1884) married > Anne Henderson, his family is well documented via his 2nd son's shipping > business John G Kincaid & Co in Renfrewshire, and his other son's travels > to > Patagonia Buenos Aires. > Note, I have not been able to find any of this family line researching > their > family tree, and have had no contact with anyone who may be able to help > (can't really phone up from Australia and say "G'day , sorry to bother you > but I think you are related to my son from way back in the 1700's and > would > you mind just submitting your DNA for me" ...... > (5) Alexander Kincaid born 1798, I had thought he married Elizabeth Smith > and that it was his son who became Major John Smith-Kincaid, but recent > communication with Eric Kincaid's family has now thrown a question about > this line with the possibility of 2 Alexander & Elizabeths. (6) John > (1801-1808). > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On > Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, 12 December 2010 1:37 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 > > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid > &Elizabeth Chi... (Peter A. Kincaid) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 11:35:22 -0400 > From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid > &Elizabeth Chi... > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Except that the 17-May-1730 and 11-Jul-1731 baptisms she > cites were not for a son John but for sons named Thomas. It > wasThomas Kincaid who married Elizabeth Chiesly not John > Kincaid. > > Just to be clear, even if a mother was a Kincaid when > we do Y-DNA testing it is the father's DNA that is being > passed on. There would be no Y-DNA trace of the mother > in a participant today. > > Unfortunately, it is quite likely that the participant has a > separate paternal lineage than the ancestor in question > because they match no other Kincaid. Until a matching > result is found for a participant in another branch of Thomas, > one assumes that the participant's Y-DNA is not representative > of the Kincaids of Dalderse or Grange or Candie. Legally > the participant represents the line but genetic representation is > another matter. > > Peter > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2010 10:50 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid > &Elizabeth Chi... > > >> WOW - this is a wonderful, thoughtful and scholarly piece of research. >> Thank you for sharing this with the List. >> >> Ruth >> >> >> In a message dated 12/10/2010 8:13:25 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Thank you Barbara >> >> Yes, I have looked at the 26-Jun-1730 marriage of John & Janet (OPR >> 479/00 >> 0080 0081 Falkirk reads James Kincaid son of Thomas in Dalderse to Janet >> Simpson daughter of Ales Simpson in Kerse). >> The birth record of their son John (OPR 470/00 0030 0525 Falkirk >> 11-Jul-1731 >> witness Alex Simpson and John Kincaid) >> But ...... >> On 24-Jun-1725 (OPR 479/00 0080 0040 Falkirk) a John Kincaid married a >> Jean >> Kincaid (in Grange son to John Kincaid in Candie to Jean Kincaid >> daughter >> of >> Thomas Kincaid in Dalderse. >> The birth record of their son John (OPR 479/00 0030 0511 Falkirk >> 17-May-1730 >> witness John Kincaid and Tom Watts. >> >> Both John Kincaid's born 1730 and 1731 could well be the husband of >> Elizabeth Chiesly (Their wedding OPR's do not show any parents names) - >> Both possible fathers of John Kincaid gave their children similar names, >> making research difficult. >> Though it does look like the common link may be Thomas Kincaid (father >> of >> James & Jean) from Dalderse. This would mean the DNA from Thomas in >> Dalderse >> could be from the Paternal line if John & Janet were parents or Maternal >> if >> John & Jean were. >> >> Then, if the parents of John kincaid born 1730/1731 were John and Jean, >> that >> means I'm looking at a line from John Kincaid in Candie ??? >> I think this would then be a different Kincaid line to Gene from the >> Kincaid >> DNA database. >> >> Thinking logically, following Scottish tradition of naming the 1st born >> male >> child after the child's grandfather, consider John & Jean being the >> parents, they had seven children, the first born son was Thomas, John's >> father was named John. The second son was named Alexander, Jean's >> father >> was named Thomas (clearly no tradition in this family) >> James & Janet had 13 children and their eldest was named Thomas, James' >> father was named Thomas, Janet's father was Alexander and she named her >> 2nd >> son Alexander. >> >> So to finding other possible DNA samples; >> Thomas and Elizabeth had 3 other children besides John (daughter >> Elizabeth >> and son Thomas who died in infancy - so they are of no help) >> Their son Alexander (1764-1854) married Jean Clark, they had 6 children >> (1) >> Thomas 1790-1794 (2) Marion 1792- ? (3) James 1794- 1855 Orchard Hill >> married twice, Agnes White and Anne Henderson and only had daughters. >> (4) >> Thomas (Captain Thomas Kincaid 1796-1884) married Anne Henderson, his >> family >> is well documented via his 2nd son's shipping business John G Kincaid & >> Co >> in Renfrewshire, and his other son's travels to Patagonia Buenos Aires. >> Note, I have not been able to find any of this family line researching >> their >> family tree, and have had no contact with anyone who may be able to help >> (can't really phone up from Australia and say "G'day , sorry to bother >> you >> but I think you are related to my son from way back in the 1700's and >> would >> you mind just submitting your DNA for me" ...... >> (5) Alexander Kincaid born 1798, I had thought he married Elizabeth >> Smith >> and that it was his son who became Major John Smith-Kincaid, but recent >> communication with Eric Kincaid's family has now thrown a question about >> this line with the possibility of 2 Alexander & Elizabeths. (6) John >> (1801-1808). >> >> Interesting article at >> > http://www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/corporate_neighbourhood/housing/policies_ >> and_strategies/PDFs/dawson/april_2006_newsletter.pdf >> >> The farmer occupying Dalderse Mill Farm in 1876 were the >> Kincaid family and in 1810 it was Thomas McGregor and he >> was succeed by Andrew Mackie who died in 1831. >> The farmer at Dalderse Farm in 1871 was Robert Buchan >> and his farmland appears to be the area that was the >> grounds of Dalderse Mansion House, north and west of >> Bainsford Burn. >> In 1876, about halfway between Dalderse Farmhouse and >> the Forth & Clyde Canal on Abbot's Road, a large house >> Orchard Hall was built and it had quite large grounds. >> The owners were Alex. Vernon Macall, Fleet Paymaster of >> H.M. Navy, Southsea, his wife, Jane Clark Kincaid or Macall >> and her sister, Margaret Kincaid. However by 1891, Margaret >> Walker Forrester was apparently living at Orchard Hall. >> >> Note - Jane Clark Kincaid was the daughter of James Kincaid and Agnes >> Wilson >> born in 1846, her father died at Orchard Hill and she had a sister >> Margaret. >> Back to John Kincaid born 1730/1731, the common grandfather was Thomas >> Kincaid of Dalderse to both possible sets of John's parents. >> >> All suggestions, comments etc gratefully received. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On >> Behalf Of [email protected] >> Sent: Saturday, 11 December 2010 8:37 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 429 >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Kincaids of Edinburgh in the 1500's (Barbara Van Hout) >> 2. Re: Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid and >> Elizabeth Chielsy (Barbara Van Hout) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 14:29:11 -0500 >> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >> Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaids of Edinburgh in the 1500's >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" >> >> > http://www.electricscotland.com/history/records/scottishrecordso31scotuoft.p >> df >> >> There is a David Kincaid, wife Elizabeth or Isabel Cockburn, with a son >> John >> Kincaid in these records. Also mentioned are Cuthbert Kincaid, James >> Kincaid, Sr. & Jr., Stephen Kincaid, and Edward Kincaid, Burgess of >> Edinburgh. >> >> The list is on p. 113 of the above link to the ?Protocol Book of Gilbert >> Grote, 1552-1573.? >> >> How were the Edinburgh Kincaids related to the James Kincaid family of >> Campsie? >> >> >> Barbara >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:36:40 -0500 >> From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas Kincaid >> and Elizabeth Chielsy >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Sue, I agree with you that it would be good to get another sample from >> this >> Kincaid family of Falkirk. >> >> The Family Search website gives James Kincaid (son of Thomas) and Janet >> Simson/Simpson (daughter of Alexander) as the parents of Thomas >> Kincaid/Elizabeth Chiesly. Which Thomas was the possible father of >> James/Janet who married >> Aug. 7, 1730 in Falkirk, Sterling, Scotland according to church records. >> >> Barbara >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sue Liedtke >> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 5:29 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid toThomas >> kincaidand >> Elizabeth Chielsy >> >> I agree that the paper work is excellant. Lesley has worked very hard to >> get >> all her ducks in a row but I am still hesitent to mark the line as fully >> vetted without a close match. The problem is not that this isn't a true >> family line but that a vetted line says that the DNA profile is that of >> the >> given ancestor. That is a primary reason for vetting. In this case we >> don't >> know if this is Thomas's DNA profile or not. There may have been an >> unrecorded non-Kincaid paternal event somewhere along the line. >> >> It is not just that Martyn doesn't match Gene. If he had matched anyone >> in >> any Group, even someone in the ungrouped section if it could be shown >> that >> the ancestral lines did not merge in recent times, then I would not a >> see >> a >> problem. >> >> All vetted lines have a near DNA match. We held off vetting #168724 >> until >> a >> confirming DNA sample could be tested. Many participants have had to >> find >> someone for testing in order to isolate a mutation before they could be >> vetted to a specific ancestor. >> >> I know that Lesley has struck out in trying to get a DNA sample from the >> line of one of Charles' other sons. I am wondering if it is possible to >> trace a line down from John? >> >> Sue Liedtke >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Don W Kincaid" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:58 PM >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas >> kincaidand >> Elizabeth Chielsy >> >> >> I believe Lesley has done an excellent job in documenting the lineage of >> Martyn Stuart Kincaid to Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisley. There are >> not >> many who are documented as well as this one. One of the other well >> documented ones is for Gene Kincaid, #23547 who shows back to Falkirk >> Parish >> in Scotland like Martyn shows so I understand Sue's apprehension on >> vetting >> Martyn since his dna does not match with 23547. With the excellent >> documentation for Martyn, I believe we should show him as vetted. One >> big >> reason I believe we should vet Martyn is that there could easily be 2 >> lines >> of Kincaid's in Falkirk Parish just as we have found 2 different lines >> of >> Kincaid's living next to each other in the Colonies in several >> instances. >> If >> we did not have another participant showing to Falkirk Parish, would >> anyone >> have an objection to Martyn's lineage being vetted? I doubt anyone >> would, >> given the excellent documentation. If vetted, I would not object to >> having >> a >> note stating that dna results have not confirmed Martyn's lineage to >> Falkirk >> or a similar statement. >> >> Don, # 1427 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sue Liedtke >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 4:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas >> kincaidand >> Elizabeth Chielsy >> >> >> This is the 2nd call for comments on the post seeking to vet #186057 to >> Thomas/Elizabeth Chiesly. I have asked that comments be directed to the >> paper trail as a separate entity from the DNA as I have a question as to >> the >> advisability of vetting a line without a confirming DNA sample from the >> furthest ancestor. >> >> Normally it takes 2 identical samples from the lines of different sons >> of >> a >> given ancestor to prove the DNA of that ancestor. In most cases we can >> get >> around this because we have identical DNA from other Kincaids whose >> ancestors pre-date the given ancestor or could be descended from the >> same >> ancestor by a different son. In cases where there is an unexpected >> significant mutation, that mutation needs to be isolated before the line >> can >> be vetted. As an example:49289 has an unexpected mutation to 9 at marker >> 15. >> This is a significant mutation as it is used to separate A-2 Kincaids >> from >> A-1 Kincaids, however no other Kincaid (and there are many participants) >> in >> the immediate geographic region has this mutation. #49289 could not be >> vetted until #135736 who does not have the mutation could be vetted to a >> common ancestor (note other unvetted lines from this ancestor do not >> have >> the mutation). >> >> In the case of #186057 we do not have identical DNA from anyone else in >> the >> project. While Thomas/Elizabeth Chiesly may very well be represented by >> #186057's DNA, there is also the possibility that an undisclosed >> non-Kincaid >> paternal event occurred somewhere along the line. This needs to be ruled >> out >> with confirming DNA. >> >> Non the less, it would be of immense value to know if the paper research >> is >> sound i.e if the DNA were confirmed could this line be vetted. This >> would >> facilitate finding a participant from a different son's line to be >> tested >> for confirming DNA. Please look over the paper trail and comment. >> >> Sue Liedtke >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Lesley Cains" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2010 3:31 AM >> Subject: [KINCAID] Vetting #186057 Martyn Kincaid to Thomas kincaid and >> Elizabeth Chielsy >> >> >> >> Vetting Martyn Stuart Kincaid to Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisley >> Martyn Kincaid DNA kit #186057 >> Researcher : Lesley Sharon Cains, mother of Martyn Stuart Kincaid and ex >> wife of Alan John Kincaid >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> >> Martyn Stuart Kincaid 'Living' b.1987, Lilydale,Victoria Australia not >> married. >> >> Proven by; >> >> Australian birth certificate (original available) for Martyn Stuart >> Kincaid; >> parents listed as Alan John Kincaid and Lesley Sharon Kincaid nee Cains. >> >> Personal knowledge; I know my son is the son of Alan John Kincaid. >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> Alan John Kincaid 'Living" b.1957 Carlton Victoria Australia m Lesley >> Sharon >> Cains in 1986 at Numurkah Victoria Australia (certificate available). >> >> Son of Bertram Langley Kincaid and Dorothy Dawn Nash. >> >> Proven by; >> >> Australian birth certificate for Alan John Kincaid listing parents as >> Bertram Langley Kincaid and Dorothy Dawn Nash. >> >> Personal knowledge; I personally know the parents and siblings of Alan >> John >> Kincaid all of whom acknowledge him as the son of Bertram Langley >> Kincaid. >> >> The parents and 3 of the 4 siblings of Alan John Kincaid are all still >> living. >> >> The siblings of Alan John Kincaid are Robert Charles Kincaid, Karen >> Eileen >> Kincaid, Helen Jean Kincaid and Heather Kincaid (1963-1963). >> _____________________________________________________________ >> >> Bertram Langley Kincaid 'Living' b.1930 Daylesford, Victoria Australia >> m >> Dorothy Dawn Nash 16 October 1955 Camberwell Victoria Australia. >> >> Son of Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters (both >> deceased). >> >> Proven by; >> >> Australian birth certificate for Bertram Langley Kincaid listing his >> parents >> as Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters, as confirmed by >> Bertram Langley Kincaid who resides in Victoria Australia. >> >> Australian death certificate's (copies available) for Arthur Charles >> Nelson >> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Kincaid (nee Waters) listing Bertram Langley >> Kincaid >> as their son, and also Bertram's siblings John (dec'd), Eileen (dec'd), >> Valma and Arthur David. >> >> Australian Electoral Roll records 1954 showing Bertram Langley Kincaid >> living at the home of Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and Sarah Rita >> Kincaid >> with his siblings Arthur and John. >> >> Springvale Victoria Australia crematorium records for Arthur Charles >> Nelson >> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Kincaid. Website look up; >> >> > http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php?page=search&s_res=GO&cid=330&Given_N >> ames=&Surname=kincaid&Surname_ex=&hw_num=100 >> >> Personal knowledge; I personally knew both parents of Bertram Langley >> Kincaid and attended their funeral services. >> I personally knew both Valma Jean Kincaid and Arthur David Kincaid >> (both >> now >> deceased) siblings of Bertram Langley Kincaid. >> The family also told me of Eileen Hilda Kincaid, sister of Bertram >> Langley >> Kincaid who married William St Dennis and migrated to the United States, >> her >> social security death index ssn 037-20-3410 Rhode Island date of death >> August 1976, and California passenger & Crew list showing Eileen St >> Denis >> & >> William St Denis arriving in California 12 Sep 1946, with Eileen on an >> Australian passport with notation of her maiden name confirms what the >> family have related to me. >> Alan John Kincaid also told of Bertram's deceased brother John Charles >> Kincaid who died alone following an accident in his home in 1978 as >> proven >> by his obituary and Springvale Crematorium records. >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid b. 7 January 1902 Daylesford Victoria >> Australia m Sarah Rita Waters 24 March 1922 Mildura Victoria Australia >> (certificate available). >> >> Son of Charles Langley Kincaid and Elizabeth Nelson. >> >> Proven by; >> >> Australian birth record #2384 (copy available) for Arthur Charles Nelson >> Kincaid DOB as 7 January 1902 listing his parents as Charles Kincaid (a >> Miner aged 42) and Elizabeth Kincaid, formerly Nelson (aged 42) living >> at >> Eganstown Victoria, who were married 13 April 1891. Siblings shown on >> the >> certificate are Grace Cowling Kincaid, Alice Kincaid, Eliza Kincaid, >> Clarice >> Kincaid and Helena Kincaid (dec'd). >> >> Australian marriage record #558 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >> Nelson >> Kincaid and Sarah Rita Waters married on 24 March 1922 at St Margaret's >> Vicarage Mildura, listing Arthur's father as Charles Langley Kincaid, a >> Miner as his father and Elizabeth Nelson as his mother. >> >> Australian death record #12575/83 (copy available) for Arthur Charles >> Nelson >> Kincaid date of death 6 June 1983 at Heatherton Victoria Australia, >> retired >> aged 81 years and born in Daylesford Victoria. Fathers name showing as >> Charles Kincaid and mother as Elizabeth Kincaid (maiden name Nelson), >> certified by his wife Sarah (known as Rita) Kincaid. This certificate >> also >> shows Arthur was 20 years old when he married Sarah Rita Waters in >> Mildura >> and that he was still married at the time of his death, children listed >> as >> Arthur aged 61 yrs, Valma aged 59 yrs, Eileen (deceased), John >> (deceased), >> Bertram aged 53 years. >> >> Australian Electoral Roll's for the years 1924, 1931, 1936, 1937 and >> 1949 >> detailing his address and family members (available to view on >> Ancestry.com). >> >> An on-line Australian newspaper Archive record detailing the death of >> his >> sister Clarice Leona Kincaid and recording that her body was identified >> by >> her brother Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid reads; "Found dead in the >> bush, >> died from exposure, exhaustion and natural causes (refer to inquest & >> newpaper articles), VPRS 24/P Unit 1031 File 92 Clarice Leona Kincaid >> died >> on or about 28 Dec 1922 from exhaustion during the first stages of >> labour. >> Body identified by brother - Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid (stonemason) >> residing at Victoria park Daylesford. Arthur Angove aged 16 from >> Daylesord >> was one of those that found her along with Frank Stevens and James >> Langdon >> who were bird nesting on Angus Hill, on the Cornish Reef". (ref; >> >> > http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1871036?searchTerm=clarice+kinc >> aid). >> >> Springvale Victoria Crematorium records showing that he was cremated 8 >> June >> 1983. >> >> Personal knowledge; I personally knew Arthur Charles Nelson Kincaid and >> visited his home with Alan John Kincaid, I also attended his funeral >> service. I identified the address' given in the Australian Electoral >> Roll's >> from my visits to his home, and the earlier address' from when I took >> Sarah >> Rita Kincaid back To Daylesford and she showed me her old home. Sarah >> Rita >> Kincaid also took me to her own parents' grave, explaining that Arthur >> Charles Nelson Kincaid was a stonemason by trade and made her parents >> tombstone and many others in the Kyneton & Daylesford area. Sarah told >> me >> they had named their son Bertram Langley Kincaid after Arthur's father >> Charles Langley Kincaid. >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> Charles Langley Kincaid b.21 Apr 1859 Mt Egerton Victoria Australia m >> Elizabeth Nelson 30 April 1891 Daylesford Victoria (certificate >> available). >> >> Son of Thomas William Kincaid and Eliza Rae. >> >> Proven by; >> >> Australian birth record #154 (copy available) for Charles Langley >> Kincaid >> DOB as 21 April 1859 at Mount Egerton Victoria, details show father as >> Thomas William Kincaid a Miner in aged 36 years and born Cape of Good >> Hope, >> marriage details on this record for Thomas William Kincaid given as >> "1845 >> Stepney London", other children "Thomas Kincaid and Alconda Degney >> Kincaid". >> Mother as Eliza Kincaid formerly Rae, aged 31 years from Waterford >> Ireland >> and signed by Thomas William Kincaid, father. >> >> Australian marriage record #4032 (copy available) for Charles Langley >> Kincaid and Eliza Nelson 30 April 1891 at the Bible Christian parsonage >> Daylesford. This record details Charles aged as 32 years as son of >> Thomas >> William Kincaid a Miner, and Elizabeth Rae. >> >> Australian death record #1813 (copy available) for Charles Langley >> Kincaid, >> a Miner died 28 May 1931 at the District Hospital Daylesford aged 72 >> years, >> his parents are given as Thomas William Kincaid and Elizabeth Kincaid >> formerly Rae. It shows Charles was buried on 30 May 1931 at Daylesford >> cemetery and that he was born in Eganstown and had lived in Victoria his >> whole life. His children are listed as Grace 39 years, Alice 38 years, >> Myrtle 35 years, Clarice (deceased) and Arthur 29 years. >> >> Australian Electoral Roll's for the years 1914, 1924 and 1928 detailing >> his >> address and family members. >> >> Obituary; (1) THE DAYLESFORD ADVOCATE Friday, May 29, 1931 FUNERAL >> NOTICE >> KINCAID -The friends of the late Mr. Charles Langley Kincaid are >> respectfully informed that his remains will be interred in the >> Dayiesford >> Cemetery TOMORROW (Saturday) May 30. The Funeral is appointed to leave >> the >> mortuary parlour of R. F. Verey at 1.30 pm. R. F. Verey, Funeral >> Director. >> Phone 245. (2) THE DAYLESFORD ADVOCATE Tuesday 2 June, 1931 OBITUARY >> CHARLES >> LANGLEY KINCAID The death occurred on Thursday morning last, of Mr >> Charles >> Langley Kincaid, after a long illness, at the age of 72 years. The late >> Mr. >> Kincaid was born in Eganstown district, and had resided in this locality >> all >> his life. For many years he was connected to the mining industry. Mrs. >> Kincaid and an adult family of three daughters and one son survive to >> mourn >> their loss, one daughter having predeceased Mr. Kincaid some years ago. >> The >> funeral took place on Saturday afternoon, and was largely attended. The >> casket was carried by Messrs. M. Dickson, W. Spear, W. Burnett >> (sons-in-law), C. Nelson (nephew), A. Dickson and J. Dickson. Rev. S. D. >> Yarrington conducted the service at the graveside, and the funeral >> arrangements were in the hands of Mr. R. F. Verey. >> >> Grave; Grave C of E 4 C 6 In loving memory of Charles Langley Kincaid, >> Elizabeth Kincaid, and Grace Cowling Dickson died 18 Feb, 1982. >> >> The personal knowledge of his grandson Bertram Langley Kincaid, who has >> confirmed the above for me. >> ______________________________________________________________ >> >> Thomas William Kincaid b.2 August 1823 Cape of Good Hope, South Africa m >> (i) >> Elizabeth Catherine Barrett on 18 May 1845 Stepney London (certificate >> available). Elizabeth Catherine Barratt died 13 March 1850. This >> marriage >> produced one child, Thomas Hardie Kincaid b. 16 February 1849 >> (certificate >> available) Rotherhithe England and died 3 February 1929 at Rotherhithe >> London UK. >> >> Thomas William Kincaid b.2 August 1823 Cape of Good Hope, South Africa m >> (ii) Eliza Rae on 16 Nov 1850 Victoria Australia >> >> Son of Charles Kincaid and Hillegonda Sophia Row. >> >> Proven by; >> >> Beaufort West, South Africa Baptism register on microfilm number 5-39, >> "Child Thomas William born 2 August 1823, baptised 17 August 1823. >> Parents >> Charles Kincaid, Hilegonda [sic] Sophia Roow [sic]. Witnesses Joseph >> Cleaver, Susanna Frederica Roow [sic], Willem Roow[sic], Anna >> Roow[sic]". >> (photograph of document ordered from GISA and available November 2010). >> >> Beaufort West South Africa Baptism record, born 2 August 1823, baptised >> 17 >> August 1823 as per the SA Genealogies by Lombard & Hesse, page 277 (this >> record purchased from GISA, Genealogy Institute of South Africa) and >> also >> provided by contact with Joy Roy (a descendant of Thomas William >> Kincaid >> and professional researcher), Heather McAllister and Tessa King >> (Administrators for Ancestry24.com). >> >> Details taken from the - UK Marriage record for Thomas William Kincaid >> (of >> full age, a Mariner Chief Officer - son of Charles Kincaid, a sadler) to >> Elizabeth Catherine Barratt (with consent of parents) on 18 May 1845 at >> St >> Thomas' Church Stepney UK, witnessed by William Brown & Sophia Barratt >> (copy >> available). >> >> Taken from the - UK Birth record (copy available) of Thomas Hardie >> Kincaid >> 16 February 1849, father given as Thomas William Kincaid (Master >> Mariner) >> mother as Elizabeth Catherine Kincaid formerly Barratt. >> >> Taken from the - Australian Death record #14665 (copy on available) 14 >> December 1903 at Leonards Hill Victoria Australia, Thomas William >> Kincaid >> aged 80 years. His father was recorded as John Kincaid, profession >> unknown, >> information on this record was detailed as being provided by his son >> John >> Rae Kincaid. He was buried on 16 December 1903 at Eganstown Public >> cemetery, >> and shows he had lived 50 years in Victoria. Place of birth given as >> Cape >> Town, Cape Colony South Africa, married to Eliza Rae (not living). The >> children of Thomas William Kincaid are listed as Charles 44 years, Janet >> 42 >> years, John 40 years, Margaret 38 years, Annie 36 years, Isabella 34 >> years, >> Eliza 32 years, Thomas William 30 years and Alconda (deceased). >> >> The Australian birth records (copies available) for the Children of >> Thomas >> William Kincaid & Eliza Rae for Charles Langley 1859, John Rae 1863, >> Annie >> Eliza 1868, Elizabeth 1873, Thomas William 1875 all detailing the father >> and >> his place of birth as The cape of Good Hope. >> >> The birth certificate's for Thomas William Kincaid's children; John Rae >> Kincaid in 1863 details Thomas William Kincaid & Eliza Rae married in >> Melbourne 1851. On Annie Eliza's record it details 'Melbourne', on >> Elizabeth's as 16 November 1850 and on Thomas' 1875 birth record as 26 >> November 1850. >> >> Australian death record (copy available) for daughter Alconda Kincaid >> aged >> 14 years 27 May 1870 in Eganstown details her parents as Thomas William >> Kincaid and Eliza Kincaid, and that Alconda was born in Newstead, >> Melbourne >> Victoria Australia. >> >> The Australian marriage certificate for daughter Janet Hardie Kincaid >> (copy >> available) 25 October 1887 shows her parents as Thomas William Kincaid >> and >> Eliza Kincaid nee Rae, on her death record in 1933 (copy available) her >> parents were given as John Kincaid (a Miner) and Eliza Kincaid formerly >> Rae >> as provided by S Brown, authorised agent >> >> When youngest son Thomas William Kincaid died in 1959 at aged 84 his >> parents >> were listed as unknown. >> >> Australian 1903 Electoral Roll showing Thomas William Kincaid living at >> Leonards Hill Victoria, occupation Miner. >> Australian Rate Books - Mt Franklin Victoria from 1872 - 1902 >> >> Australian Newspaper Archive - Daylesford Advocate Thursday 17 December >> 1903 >> - The late Mr Kincaid; The remains of Mr T W Kincaid were interred in >> the >> Eganstown Public Cemetery yesterday. The funeral started from his late >> residence at Leonard's Hill and comprised of mourners in eight >> conveyances >> and seven horsemen. The bearers were Messers Kramer, Aldridge, McKidrew >> (2), >> Ladigus and Blackwell, Mr Taylor read the burial service. Messer's Verey >> Bros had charge of the mortuary arrangements. >> _____________________________________________________ >> >> Charles Kincaid b.3 May 1791 m (i) Hillegonda Sophia Row on 3 August >> 1818 >> Cape of Good Hope (Hillegonda born 1800, died 4 February 1831). >> >> Charles Kincaid b.3 May 1791 m (ii) Christina Johanna Marian Sporkman, >> widow >> of John Herbert 12 October 1846 Cape of Good Hope (copy available). >> >> Son of John Kincaid and Margaret Gaff >> >> Proven by; >> >> Scottish OPR record 487/0010 0356 (copy on available) detailing "John >> Kincaid and Margaret Gaff, their son named Charles was born 3 May 1791 >> and >> baptised 8 May, witness' Thomas Kincaid and John Gibb". >> >> Website - Old Polmont Church (note - please note that not all details on >> this website are accurate eg Sir John Kincaid given as never married, he >> in >> fact married Louisa Frisbee a month before his death). refer >> www.polmontold.org.uk/hist1845part06.html >> >>>From the list of passengers arriving in South Africa on board the Ship >> 'The >> Brilliant' in 1817, Charles Kincaid was part of a group of Scottish >> Artisans >> organised by Benjamin Moodie. >> >>>From the Book - British Residents at the Cape 1795-1819, by David >>>Phillip >> page 222, in part reads - "Kincaid, Charles, saddler single arrived 4 >> June >> 1817 Table Bay, in Brilliant ex Downs under Moodies direction. 2 August >> 1817 >> has commenced business (saddle, cap and harness maker). 3 August 1818 >> marriage of CK of Falkirk, Stirling aged 27 to Hillegonda Sophia d,o, >> Robt. >> Row aged 18. 6 June 1819 baptised their son John Robert. 18 March 1821 >> baptised of their son Charles Langley". >> >>>From the National Archives of South Africa - in 1818 'memorials >>>received, >> Charles Kincaid requesting permission to remain in the Colony. >> >>>From the National Archives of South Africa - Charles Kincaid aged 27, >> birthplace Falkirk Stirling married at The English Church to Hillegonda >> Sophia Row aged 18 born at The Cape on 3 August 1818 as published in The >> Capetown Gazette. >> >> Marriage certificate (copy available) Charles Kincaid (widower, >> occupation >> Sadler) married in Paarl South Africa to Christina Johanna Maria >> Sporkman >> (widow). >> >> Death certificate #2505 (copy available) Charles Kincaid born in >> Scotland, >> married died on 5 March 1866. Lists the children of his 2nds wife's >> previous marriage and John Robert Kincaid as son with Hillegonda Sophia. >> >>>From the National Archives of South Africa - Charles Kincaid will filed >> 1866. >> >>>From the South African Commercial Advisor - (1) 1826, a daughter of Mr C >> Kincaid baptised Jessy, (2) 1829 a son of Mr Charles Kincaid baptised >> Alexander Row, (3) 1831 February 4, Sophia Kincaid wife of Mr C Kincaid >> died >> aged 30 years and 6 months. >> >> Reference; book - "This I'll Defend, The Story of the Kincaid's by Bill >> Kincaid" >> >> Reference; pamphlet obtained in full from The National Archives of South >> Africa "The Kincaid Family in South Africa" by JJ Scheepers and >> confirmed >> by >> Leonard Kincaid who resides in South Africa son of Joy Scheepers & >> Donald >> Kincaid descendants of John Robert Kincaid b.1819 at the Cape of Good >> Hope. >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >> John Kincaid b.10 June 1762 Polmont Stirlingshire Scotland m Margaret >> Gaff >> (marriage on OPR's shows 20 Nov 1784 Bothkennar & 16 Dec 1784 as the >> Proclamation Polmont for both parties) >> >> Son of Thomas Kincaid and Elizabeth Chiesly (Cheesley) >> >> Proven by; >> >> Scottish OPR Baptism record 487/0010 0084 13 June 1762, "Thomas Kincaid >> & >> Elizabeth Chiesly their son named John was born 10 June and baptised 13 >> June, witness' Alexander and Robert Kincaid and John Clark". (Copy >> Available) >> >> Scottish OPR marriage record 473/000010/0260 20th November 1784 marriage >> bans, naming John Kincaid if Dalbeath. "(copy available). >> >> Falkirk Churchyard Grave 184, John Kincaid death 11 February 1794 aged >> 33 >> years. >> >> Reference; book - Mitchell, John Fowler. Monumental inscriptions (pre >> 1855) >> in East Stirlingshire. Edinburgh: Scottish Genealogy Society, 1972]. >> "John Kincaid, 1st son of Thos Kincaid & Eliz Chislie, age 33, at >> Carronflats on 11 February 1794; John's wife, Margt Gaff, age 85, on 5 >> February 1844; John's 1st son, Thos Kincaid, age 63, at Glasgow on 31 >> December 1848; John's youngest son, Alex Kincaid, age 17, having drowned >> by >> shipwreck on coast of Durham on 27 January 1806; John's 2nd son, John >> Kincaid, 76, at Hastings on 23 April 1862, (having entered the army in >> 1809 >> & served throughout the Peninsular war with Rifle Brigade, knighted >> 1852, >> senior exon of HM Royal Bodyguard & for many years government inspector >> of >> prisons & factories for Scotland); John's (Margt Gaff) only daughter, >> Margt >> Kincaid, age 71, widow of the late Peter Hardie, merchant in Leith, on 6 >> October 1863; and John's 3rd son, Charles Kincaid, age 73, at Pearl Cape >> of >> Good Hope on 5 March 1866" (Note - Information provided by both Peter A >> Kincaid, Canada and also Ann Taylor, nee Kincaid England UK and >> confirmed >> verbally that this Book available from the National Library of >> Australia, >> Canberra Australia, copies of relevant extracts pending). >> >> Reference; made available courtesy of Peter A Kincaid, Canada. >> "John Kincaid, son of Thomas Kincaid, farmer, Newlands, as heir to >> Alexander >> Chiesly, Tenant, Newlands, his grandfather, seised, Oct. 18. 1788, -in >> part >> of Bothkennar called Dalbeith, with Ferry Boat & fishing in Carron, & >> Teinds, par. Bothkennar; -on Pr. Chan. Oct. 7. 1788. P.R. 30. 184. >> [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, no. 1394. >> Registered >> 20 October 1788]". >> "John Kincaid of Dalbaith, as heir to Elizabeth Chiesly, his mother, >> seised, >> Oct. 18. 1788, -in part of Bothkennar called Dalbaith, with Ferry Boat, >> and >> Fishing in Carron, par. Bothkennar; -on Pr. Cl. Con. by himself, Oct. >> 18. >> 1788. P.R. 30.185. [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. >> 1, >> no. 1395. Registered 20 October 1788]". >> "John Kincaid of Dalbaith, gets Resig. ad Rem. Oct. 18. 1788, -of part >> of >> Bothkennar called Dalbaith, with Ferry Boat, & Fishing in Carron, par. >> Bothkennar; -on Proc. resig. by himself, Oct. 18. 1788. P.R. 30. 186. >> [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, no. 1396. >> Registered >> 20 October 1788]". >> "The Trustees of John Kincaid of Dalbaith, seised, Mar. 22. 1800, -in an >> Oxengate of land of Bothkennar called Dalbaith with the Ferry Boat and >> part >> of the fishing of the Water of Carron, and Teinds; (&2 Oxengates of land >> of >> the lands of Bothkennar in warrandice), par. Bothkennar; -under burden >> of >> ?50 each to John, Alexander, and Charles Kincaid, and 500 Merks Scots to >> Margaret Kincaid, younger children of the said John Kincaid, &c; -on >> Disp. >> & >> Settlement by the said John Kincaid, & Margaret Gaff, his spouse, Sept. >> 6. >> 1793. P.R. 36.35. [Abridgement of Sasines, Stirling, 1781-1820, vol. 1, >> no. >> 3904. Registered 20 May 1800]". >> >> Reference; book - "This I'll Defend, The Story of the Kincaid's by Bill >> Kincaid" >> >> Reference; Book - "Adventures of The Rifle Brigade" by sibling Sir John >> Kincaid detailing his family, father John Kincaid. >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> >> Thomas Kincaid b. circa 1731 Falkirk Scotland m Elizabeth Chiesly 12 >> July >> 1761. >> >> Son of (unknown - possible either of James Kincaid & Janet Simson, or >> John >> Kincaid & Jean Kincaid) >> >> Proven by; >> >> Marriage record - Scottish OPR Marriage Ban 479/00008 00237 10 July 1761 >> Falkirk, and Scottish OPR Marriage proclamation Polmont 487/00002 0016 >> (copies available) this record names Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Chielsy >> but >> neither of their parents. >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >> Other resources used; >> Ancestry.com record search for BDM records, Census returns, travel >> records, >> Australian Electoral Rolls. >> Ancestry24.com for South African research re BDM's, Wills and >> application >> to >> remain in the Colony. >> Ancestry.Co.ZA to view & purchase South African death records. >> Scotslands People (www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk) record search for OPR >> records >> re BDM's, Census & Wills. >> GISA (Genealogical Institute of South Africa) for South African family >> history records. >> NAAIRS for South African records re BDM's, Wills and application to >> remain >> in the Colony etc. >> Book - British Residents at The Cape 1795-1819 by David Phillip. >> On-Line Book - Extracts of Marriages at The Cape of Good Hope 1806-1821. >> On-Line Book - Extracts of Baptisms at The Cape of Good Hope 1806-1821 >> 192.com for UK contacts. >> Springvale Crematorium Records for confirming Australian deaths. >> The Australian National Archives. >> The Australian National Library. >> The Victorian Government Public Records Office. >> The Victorian Registry of Birth, Deaths & Marriages. >> The Daylesford Family History Society. >> The Australian WW2 Nominal Roll. >> The Kincaid family living in Australia. >> Trove - Australian newspapers on line. >> London newspaper archives on line. >> Edinburgh newspaper archives on line. >> The Genealogical Society of South Africa historical newspapers on line. >> Google. >> >> Note - Australia does not have census returns as these are not archived >> after the government has collated the data it requires. >> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> >> Footnote's - >> >> John Kincaid & Margaret Gaff had 5 children; >> Son Thomas, a Merchant baptised 30 October 1785, died 31 December 1848. >> Married Isabella Balloch 17 January 1818 and produced 5 sons and 5 >> daughters >> per the OPR records. OPR & BDM records show that 4 of the sons died >> without >> marrying, and John living in Lancashire unmarried aged 60 yrs in 1881. >> Son John Kincaid baptised 29 July 1787, died 23 April 1862. Married >> Louisa >> Frisbee 19 March 1862, no children. >> Son Alexander christened 7 June 1789, died in a shipwreck 27 January >> 1806. >> Never married, no children. >> Son Charles as detailed above in vetting. >> Daughter Margaret christened 22 July 1795, died 6 October 1863. Married >> Peter Hardie 8 March 1811 and produced 4 sons and 1 daughter. Both her >> son's Thomas Kincaid Hardie and John Hardie travelled to Australia in >> search >> of gold. Thomas married Janet Hoyle in Victoria 1848, returning to the >> UK >> to >> 'live off his own means' as a 'retired Australian Squatter'. John >> married >> Elizabeth Hoyle in Victoria Australia 1841, this couple also returned to >> the >> UK. >> >> Thomas Kincaid & Elizabeth Cheisly's son Alexander b.1764 married Jean >> Clark. This couple had 6 children, their son Thomas b.1796 was 'Captain >> Thomas Kincaid - Shipmaster' who married Ann Henderson. >> Two of Thomas & Ann's sons died overseas - Alexander b.1839 died 1892 in >> Buenos Ayres and James b.1903 died in 1903 Patagonia Argentina. Their >> 2nd >> eldest of their son's , John George Kincaid born in 1840 founded J G >> Kincaid Shipping in Inverclyde. John G Kincaid married Margaret >> Grierson, >> their eldest son Thomas Lennox Kincaid b.1877 travelled to Australia >> settling in NSW. He married there in 1936 and died in December 1940, >> (His >> death certificate is available). His wife's son by her 1st marriage, >> Hilton >> Grenville Marcuso who had links to the notorious Kings Cross criminal >> underworld, took the Kincaid surname, and died in NSW Australia in >> 1975. >> >> Hillegonda Sophia Row, wife of Charles Kincaid - was born at The Cape of >> Good Hope in 1800 and dies at aged 31 on 4 February 1831 as listed in >> the >> South African Commercial Adviser. >> Hillegonda was the daughter of Englishman Robert Row and Helena Wilhelma >> Aspeling. Helena & Robert married at The Cape on 14 April 1800, she was >> the >> widow of Lambrecht Van der Woord and had two children by him (Johanna >> Louise >> and Jan Christian). >> Helena and Robert had 3 other children; >> Susannah Frederika Row 1802 - 1831. Susannah married Joseph Cleaver >> (soap >> manufacturer) in 1823 at Beaufort West and this couple were witness' to >> the >> marriage of Hillegonda & Charles Kincaid's son Thomas William Kincaid's >> baptism at the Dutch Reformed Church in Beaufort West August 1823. They >> had >> one child, a daughter Ann born in 1824 and died in 1825. Joseph Cleaver >> died in 1824. >> Johanna Margaretha Row 1802-1848. Johanna married Samuel Mollett in >> 1834. >> Robert James Row 1809-1839. >> Hillegonda's mother was Hillegonda Kotze also born at The Cape of Good >> Hope >> as was her mother before her. It was Hillegonda Rows Gr Gr grandparents >> that >> came to The Cape from Germany and The Nederland's, and her grandfather >> Erik >> Aspeling from Sweden. >> >> Charles Kincaid & Hillegonda Row's 1st born son was John Robert Kincaid >> born >> 1819. He married Frances Dorothea Fison 10th July 1846, and this couple >> had >> six children; >> Charles John Kincaid 5 Jan 1848 >> Thomas Henrik Herbert Kincaid 20 Apr 1851 - 29 June 1923 (married Sarah >> Maria Holmes, and had six children, see below) >> Dorothea Christina Kincaid 11 Mar 1853 married Richard Walton >> Alexander Frederick Kincaid 10 Apr 1855 >> Ellen Elizabeth Kincaid 18 Jan 1857 >> Elizabeth Harriette Kincaid 21 Mar 1860 >> >> Thomas Hendrik Herbert and Sarah Maria Holmes went on to have six >> children; >> Gertrude Frances Kincaid 16 Jul 1884 >> Percy Frederick Kincaid 11 Nov 1886 - 22 May 1967 married (1) Alice Maud >> Poggenpoel, 2 children John b 15 May 1926 and Maud b 28 Sep 1914 (2) >> Iris >> Alexandria Morkel, one son Charles Morkel Kincaid b 22 Dec 1932. >> (Charles >> married Maria VanSchalkwyk and had 2 sons, John 15 Jan 1963 and Paul in >> 1965. >> Leonard Thomas Kincaid 25 Jan 1888 - 1965, married Charlotte Augusta >> Gerhardt. This couple had 3 children; Gwendoline 28 Sep 1916 - 1956, >> Roland >> Kincaid b.1920 and Donald Kincaid 16 Aug 1929. Donald married Joy >> Scheepers >> and they had 3 children; Leonard, Gary & Mark Kincaid. >> Mildred Constance Kincaid 10 Aug 1891 >> Charles Henry Kincaid 24 Sep 1894, married Enid Audrey Holmes (Enid was >> born >> in Rockhampton Qld 4 May 1901) >> Gwendoline Jessie Holmes Kincaid 31 Oct 1897. >> >> The information re John Robert Kincaid and his descendants became >> available >> from a NAAIRS document 'The Kincaid family in South Africa' and a list >> of >> Kincaid births and marriages purchased from GISA. Leonard Kincaid (son >> of >> Donald and Joy - see 3 above) who still resides in South Africa, has >> confirmed all of the above for me also advising he has 2 sons, Mark >> Douglas >> Kincaid and Luke Richard Kincaid who also reside in South Africa. >> >> Thomas Hardie Kincaid born 16 Feb 1849 to Thomas William Kincaid and >> Elizabeth Catherine Barrett in Stepney, Ratcliff County of Middlesex. >> His >> death certificate shows he died on 3 Feb 1829 in Rotherhithe, County of >> London as witnessed by his daughter Julia Charlotte Howes, nee Kincaid. >> >> I am unsure who actually raised Thomas Hardie Kincaid after his mother >> died >> in 1850 and his father Thomas William Kincaid left the UK to continue >> his >> travels and ultimately end up in Australia. Thomas Hardie Kincaid is >> mentioned on only one of his ? siblings Australian birth records, and >> was >> not listed on his father's Australian death certificate. >> >> Thomas Hardie married Sarah Ann Drake in 1867, and after her death >> married >> Elizabeth Abel in 1898. Thomas and Sarah had five children; >> Julia Charlotte Kincaid 1868-1934 >> William Henry Brooks Kincaid 1870-1943 >> Sarah Catherine Kincaid 1873-1911 >> Eliza Elizabeth Kincaid 1878- >> Annie Brooks Kincaid 1883-1883 >> Thomas William Brooks Kincaid 1885 - (date of death unconfirmed). Thomas >> married Alice May Springall and this couple had 6 children, the youngest >> being Eric David Hardie Kincaid (children's illustrator and Artist. >> Eric >> also did the artwork for Bill Kincaid in his book, This I'll Defend - >> The >> Story of the Kincaids). These details have been confirmed with Eric's >> daughter Ann Taylor (nee Kincaid) and his son David Kincaid in the UK. >> >> (Further details available if required). >> >> Thankyou >> >> >> >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca >> id%20%20DNA.xlsTo >> join the DNA project, go >> > to:www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027---------- >> ---------------------To >> unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotesin the subject and the body of the message >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca >> id%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca >> id%20%20DNA.xlsTo >> join the DNA project, go >> > to:www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027---------- >> ---------------------To >> unsubscribe from the list, please send an email >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotesin the subject and the body of the message >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca >> id%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the KINCAID list administrator, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> To post a message to the KINCAID mailing list, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the >> body >> of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 429 >> *************************************** >> >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca >> id%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca > id%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the KINCAID list administrator, send an email to > [email protected] > > To post a message to the KINCAID mailing list, send an email to > [email protected] > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of KINCAID Digest, Vol 5, Issue 432 > *************************************** > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kinca id%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the