This is a scam - has been going around a lot of lists in one form or another. Do not answer it - contact your isp to determine if your e-mail address or that of the person sending the e-mail has been hacked and what you need to do next. -------------------------------------------------- From: "R. Chris Kinkaid" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:44 PM To: <[email protected]> Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaid Phishing Scam? > Not sure if it's a clever ruse from scammer or if they somehow got my name > from this list, but I recently got this in my inbox: > > Its me, JACK. I don't mean to inconvenience you right now, I made a trip > to > UK and I misplaced my luggage that contains my passport and credit cards. > I > know this may sound odd but it all happened very fast. I need to get a new > passport and a ticket, but I'm short of funds. Please, can you lend me > some > funds to get a ticket? I will pay you back. > > Please respond as soon as you get this message, so I can forward you my > details to send funds to me, OR you can drop a message via the hotel's > desk > phone if you can. The number is, +447045733705. > > I await your response > JACK Kincaid > > Anyone else gotten something like this recently? Came from > [email protected] > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Not sure if it's a ruse? Dick Kinkead 2562 -----Original Message----- From: R. Chris Kinkaid Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaid Phishing Scam? Not sure if it's a clever ruse from scammer or if they somehow got my name from this list, but I recently got this in my inbox: Its me, JACK. I don't mean to inconvenience you right now, I made a trip to UK and I misplaced my luggage that contains my passport and credit cards. I know this may sound odd but it all happened very fast. I need to get a new passport and a ticket, but I'm short of funds. Please, can you lend me some funds to get a ticket? I will pay you back. Please respond as soon as you get this message, so I can forward you my details to send funds to me, OR you can drop a message via the hotel's desk phone if you can. The number is, +447045733705. I await your response JACK Kincaid Anyone else gotten something like this recently? Came from [email protected]

Not sure if it's a clever ruse from scammer or if they somehow got my name from this list, but I recently got this in my inbox: Its me, JACK. I don't mean to inconvenience you right now, I made a trip to UK and I misplaced my luggage that contains my passport and credit cards. I know this may sound odd but it all happened very fast. I need to get a new passport and a ticket, but I'm short of funds. Please, can you lend me some funds to get a ticket? I will pay you back. Please respond as soon as you get this message, so I can forward you my details to send funds to me, OR you can drop a message via the hotel's desk phone if you can. The number is, +447045733705. I await your response JACK Kincaid Anyone else gotten something like this recently? Came from [email protected]

The David Logan and John Mills are also intriguing. I wonder if Elizabeth Logan m John Kincaid was related? A John Mills held land in Albemarle Co. A Hopewell church group from NJ went to Towan Co. NC where they started what is called the "Jersey Community" where they built a church. This was a Baptist church but was alos used by Quakers and Presps and expect maybe some Dutch Reform. Rev John Alderson Sr was associated with the Hopewell Church in NJ. He held land recorded in Frederick Co. He became minister at the Smith & Linville Creeks Church in Augusta Co. (Rockingham Co) and extented his circuit into Greenbrier Co. My Fulkerson family moved from Hopewell NJ to Rowan Co. at the same time as the Hopewell group. They then moved to Washington Co. VA with my line moving on to Campbell Co. TN then Cole Co. MO. In Campbell Co. they lived next to James Miller/Elizabeth Kincaid and Robert Glenn. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Hopewell Meeting House in Frederick Co, Virginia and members > Notice that John Calvert,Abraham Hollingsworth, George Hobson, Jr. & Sr., > and Francis Tencher (Tincher) were among the early members. Was Francis > Tencher a brother of Samuel Tincher, and uncle of Hannah who married > Thomas Kincaid? How was Winifred Hobson Kinkead related to the George > Hobsons below? > > > HOPEWELL was the first Quaker meeting established in the Shenandoah Valley > of Virginia. It was originally known as Opeckan and was set off from the > Concord Quarterly Meeting of Pennsylvania in 1734. The actual date of > first settlement is thought to be around 1730. The meeting house is > located about 6 miles north of Winchester, Frederick Co., Virginia. > > A land grant of 100,000 acres was purchased on the Opeckan River. Many of > the earliest settlers moved into the area from the Valley of the Monocacy > in Maryland > > BORDEN, Benjamin 850 acres on the western slope of Apple Pie Ridge, > many other large holdings > > CALVERT, John 850 acres near Abraham Hollinsworth, east of > Kernstown. > > > HOLLINGSWORTH, Abraham > > > HOBSON, George Jr. > > HOBSON, George Sr. 937 acres on Middle Creek in what is now Berkeley > Co., WV, adjacent to David Logan and John Mills. > > > PARRALL, Hugh 466 acres adjoining John Calvert, near Kernstown, > Frederick Co., VA. Many other tracts of land. > > > > ROSS, Alexander 2,373 acres 6 miles north of Winchester in Frederick > Co., VA. On this tract stands the Hopewell Meeting House. > > > > TENCHER, Francis 150 acres on Middle Creek, now in Berkeley Co., WV > > > From Samuel Smith's History of Pennsylvania, a part of which was printed > in the Register of Pennsylvania, Vol. VII, p. 134, edited by Samuel > Hazard, is quoted here from Hopewell Friends History (1936). (Smith's > History of Pennsylvania was compiled at the direction of Philadelphia > Yearly Meeting in 1752.) > > About the year 1725, Henry Ballinger and Josiah Ballinger, from near > Salem, in West Jersey; and soon after them James Wright, William Beals, > and others from Nottingham, settled in the upper parts of Prince George's > Co., Maryland, near a large creek called Monoquesey (Monocacy). About the > year 1796, they applied to New Garden Monthly Meeting for liberty to hold > a meeting for worship on first days, which was granted, and held at the > house of Josiah Ballenger, and others till the year 1736, when a piece of > ground was purchased and a meetinghouse built, which is called Cold Spring > meetinghouse, where meetings are still kept. > > About the year 1732, Alexander Ross and Company obtained a grant from the > Governor and Council at Williamsburgh in Virginia, for 100,000 acres of > land near a large creek called Opeckan in the said colony, which about > that time was settled by the said Alexander Ross, Josiah Ballenger, James > Wright, Evan Thomas, and diverse other Friends from Pennsylvania and Elk > River, in Maryland, who soon after obtained leave from the quarterly > meeting of Chester, held at Concord, to hold a meeting for worship, soon > after which land was purchased and a meetinghouse built, called Hopewell, > where meetings are still held twice a week. > > . http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~quakers/hopewell.htm > > Bond of David Kinkead, Robert Worthington and Andrew Campbell unto Thomas > Chew. Gent., justice. For£ 400. 23 July 1742 David Kinkead is admr. of > John Hobson,dec. David Kinkead Robt. Worthington Andrew Campbell Wit. > Catlett Conway.23 July 1742 > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you again Peter. I always get confused as to when TN/NC split. It is also confusing because most of TN was at one time Washington Co. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > No need for the sic as this is not an error. Spencer County, > State of Franklin and Hawkins County, State of North > Carolina became Hawkins County, Tennessee in 1796. > > Peter > >> In 1752 David Kinkead and wife Winifred sell to Joseph and Burrough >> Kinkead >> land in Albemarle Co. Joseph sold his part of this land in 1768. >> Burrough's >> son David of Hawkins Co. NC [my sic: this is in TN] sold Burrough's part >> of >> the land in 1790. In this deed it is states that David and Winifred sold >> this land to their sons Joseph and Burrough. Wife's names are notoriously >> missing from early Amhurst Co. deeds (Amhurst from Albemarle 1761).. > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Something else interesting. Leslie claims her Glenn-Miller family migrated to Washington Co. VA from Berkeley Co. VA/WVA. (Berkeley from Frederick 1772). She has postulated that her Robert Glenn was son of James Glenn and Mary Miller, dau of David Miller b 1720-5 Lancaster Co. PA d Berkely Co. of that Co. David Miller whose other children included a John b 1741 Chester Co. d 1791 Berkely Co. m Hannah Boyd 1771 and a James b 1756 PA d 1795 VA. This David and brother Hugh b 1720 Lancaster Co. were sons of a Hugh Miller b Ireland d Berkeley Co. My James Miller/Elizabeth Kincaid was the son of James Miller/Margaret Boyd. A brother of James Miller Sr was a Hugh Miller. James Miller/Elizabeth Kincaid lived next to Robert Glenn in Campbell Co. TN. I think there may be a possibility that my James Miller Sr may be from this same family. There are Glenns in both Albemarle Co and Greenbrier Co. I could not get from Leslie if they may be related to Robert. There is also a Glenn-Young connection in Augusta and Greenbrier though I can't find a connection between William Young, (father of Hannah Young who married John Miller, brother of James/Elizabeth Kincaid Miller and also father of Nancy Young who m Thomas Kincaid) and the Youngs who married with Glenns. Samuel Tincher, father of Hannah Tincher who m Thomas Kincaid did have a brother Francis. They both show up in Greenbrier Co. Samuel also was in Albemarle Co. as was his wife's father or brother George Campbell and Danial Hurrah whose sons married Thomas/Hannah's daughters. Michael Wood's wife was a Campbell. I am not sure what or if there was a relationhip. Danial Hurrah or O'hara may have married a Margaret Ramsey in a Quacker church in Lancaster Co. PA My Andrew Kincaid d 1810 Greenbrier Co. may also have married a Ramsey. Danial o'hara and Andrew Kincaid of Albemarle were sued by a Woods in 1772 for a note issued in 1762. I just found a note where I have scribbled (I didn't note the source, sigh) that the father of Michael Woods was John Woods b 1654 Meath Co. Ireland m Elizabeth Worsop (Walkup???) in 1681 d Ireland. His children are listed as: Elizabeth b 1681 d 1745 VA m Peter Wallace, Michael b 1684, Wm b 1986, James b 1688 and Andrew b 1690. The Wallaces were another prominant Albemarle family. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:13 PM Subject: [KINCAID] Hopewell Meeting House in Frederick Co, Virginia and members > Notice that John Calvert,Abraham Hollingsworth, George Hobson, Jr. & Sr., > and Francis Tencher (Tincher) were among the early members. Was Francis > Tencher a brother of Samuel Tincher, and uncle of Hannah who married > Thomas Kincaid? How was Winifred Hobson Kinkead related to the George > Hobsons below? > > > HOPEWELL was the first Quaker meeting established in the Shenandoah Valley > of Virginia. It was originally known as Opeckan and was set off from the > Concord Quarterly Meeting of Pennsylvania in 1734. The actual date of > first settlement is thought to be around 1730. The meeting house is > located about 6 miles north of Winchester, Frederick Co., Virginia. > > A land grant of 100,000 acres was purchased on the Opeckan River. Many of > the earliest settlers moved into the area from the Valley of the Monocacy > in Maryland > > BORDEN, Benjamin 850 acres on the western slope of Apple Pie Ridge, > many other large holdings > > CALVERT, John 850 acres near Abraham Hollinsworth, east of > Kernstown. > > > HOLLINGSWORTH, Abraham > > > HOBSON, George Jr. > > HOBSON, George Sr. 937 acres on Middle Creek in what is now Berkeley > Co., WV, adjacent to David Logan and John Mills. > > > PARRALL, Hugh 466 acres adjoining John Calvert, near Kernstown, > Frederick Co., VA. Many other tracts of land. > > > > ROSS, Alexander 2,373 acres 6 miles north of Winchester in Frederick > Co., VA. On this tract stands the Hopewell Meeting House. > > > > TENCHER, Francis 150 acres on Middle Creek, now in Berkeley Co., WV > > > From Samuel Smith's History of Pennsylvania, a part of which was printed > in the Register of Pennsylvania, Vol. VII, p. 134, edited by Samuel > Hazard, is quoted here from Hopewell Friends History (1936). (Smith's > History of Pennsylvania was compiled at the direction of Philadelphia > Yearly Meeting in 1752.) > > About the year 1725, Henry Ballinger and Josiah Ballinger, from near > Salem, in West Jersey; and soon after them James Wright, William Beals, > and others from Nottingham, settled in the upper parts of Prince George's > Co., Maryland, near a large creek called Monoquesey (Monocacy). About the > year 1796, they applied to New Garden Monthly Meeting for liberty to hold > a meeting for worship on first days, which was granted, and held at the > house of Josiah Ballenger, and others till the year 1736, when a piece of > ground was purchased and a meetinghouse built, which is called Cold Spring > meetinghouse, where meetings are still kept. > > About the year 1732, Alexander Ross and Company obtained a grant from the > Governor and Council at Williamsburgh in Virginia, for 100,000 acres of > land near a large creek called Opeckan in the said colony, which about > that time was settled by the said Alexander Ross, Josiah Ballenger, James > Wright, Evan Thomas, and diverse other Friends from Pennsylvania and Elk > River, in Maryland, who soon after obtained leave from the quarterly > meeting of Chester, held at Concord, to hold a meeting for worship, soon > after which land was purchased and a meetinghouse built, called Hopewell, > where meetings are still held twice a week. > > . http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~quakers/hopewell.htm > > Bond of David Kinkead, Robert Worthington and Andrew Campbell unto Thomas > Chew. Gent., justice. For£ 400. 23 July 1742 David Kinkead is admr. of > John Hobson,dec. David Kinkead Robt. Worthington Andrew Campbell Wit. > Catlett Conway.23 July 1742 > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Peter. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:36 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography >I am not able to give a good sourced errata for Dr. Herbert Clarke > Kincaid's (hereafter H.C.K.) paper now, but may do one sometime > for kyncades.org in the myth section. However, since the paper is > out there now I thought I would give a quick running commentary > based on documentation I have. The documentation will have to > follow on the website at a future date. > > In 1238/9 the lands of Kincaid were granted to William son of > Arthur son of Galbrait not William Galbraith. The latter is a surname > while the former may well be a ethnic identity. There is no > indication that there were lands called Galbraith. A good part of > the Kincaid lands were conveyed to others over the next 40 years. > Some remained with the heirs of Wiliam son of Arthur son of > Galbrait. There is nothing to say that the Galbrait here was Gillespic > Galbraith. Just like Simon the Fleming may have no connection to > Robert the Fleming there may have been no connection between > Arthur and Gillespic. > > Regardless of who owned the Kincaid lands at the beginning of the > 1300s, the earliest located person bearing the Kincaid surname was > in 1425. In between a lot of people had been forfeited of their > lands by treason and wars in Scotland so there is nothing to say the > Laird of Kincaid in 1425 was descended in any way from those that > held the lands in 1300. It is clear that William son of Arthur son of > Galbrait held his lands directly of the Earls of Lennox but the Kincaids > held their lands of the Hamiltons of Buthernock who held of the Earls > of Lennox. By H.C.K's reasoning the Hamiltons of Buthernock > would be first in line to be heirs of William son of Arthur son of > Galbraith before the Kincaids. > > There is no evidence of a Francis Kincaid or a Francis Galbraith > at the beginning of the 1300s. H.C.K. is making Sir William > Francis (i.e. the Frank or Frenchman) who helped in the capture > of Edinburgh castle a Kincaid. If he was his name was William > not Francis. Francis is his ethnic origin. > > The point of 1/4 of the lands of Kincaid being parted with about > 1350 seems to be made up. The lands of Kincaid had been > broken up into quarters a hundred years earlier. > > Donald de Kyncade of 1464/5 was not Laird of Kincaid. He > was junior to Robert de Kyncade de Craglokkard (Craiglockhart) > who, if he was not then Laird of Kincaid, was the one from > which the later Lairds of Kincaid descended. Donald was of > the Lairds of Kincaid line but it is uncertain who his father was. > His only son we can be certain of is Robert. > > The Laird of Kincaid in 1486 was William Kyncade of that Ilk. > The David de Kincaid who was a witness to the Ballinkere > charter was not Laird of Kincaid but he was probably his > younger brother. > > William Kincaid of that Ilk had no legitimate children. His > heir was his brother Patrick whose daughter, Elizabeth, later > became Elizabeth Kincaid of that Ilk. She married Thomas > Kincaid of the Kincaids of Coates. He was certainly not > her cousin as it was then unlawful to wed your cousins. > You needed special (and very expensive authorization) from > the Pope to marry someone who shared anything less than > a great great grandfather and that included relatives of spouses. > > I see no indication that the John Kincaid who got the lands > of Boneside was a brother of William Kincaid of that Ilk > (fl 1470s). Timeline wise he fits in the previous generation. > > Edward Kincaid was not a son of Thomas Kincaid of that > Ilk. He was almost certainly a brother. > > The evidence is that Margaret Seton was a later wife of Thomas > Kincaid of that Ilk who had married Elizabeth Kincaid, > daughter and heir of Patrick Kincaid of that Ilk. Margaret > Seton was the daughter of Sir Alexander Seton and brother > of Ninian Seton of the Setons of Tullibody. > > I don't see any evidence that Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk had > sons Malcolm and George. I believe the Malcolm and George > that H.C.K. was referring to were the grandsons of Thomas > Kincaid of that Ilk. It is also not certain if he had a son Richard. > There was a Richard Kincaid and he could be Thoams' son but > he could also have been a relative of Thomas' first wife Elizabeth > Kincaid, daughter of Patrick Kincaid of that Ilk. > > I have a copy of the Will of Isabel Kincaid wife of Thomas > Peebles and see no evidence that she was a daughter of the > first James Kincaid of that Ilk. > > There is nothing to suggest that there was a James Kincaid of > that Ilk who died about 1584. The evidence was that James > Kincaid of that Ilk, son of Elizabeth Kincaid of that Ilk and > Thomas Kincaid > > of that Ilk, was born about 1512 and died in 1604. He was > succeeded by his son James Kincaid of that Ilk who appears > to have been born in the late 1530s and who subsequently > married Christian Leslie, daughter of George Leslie, Earl of > Rothes. He died in 1606. H.C.K. has as sons of James > Kincaid of that Ilk and Christian Leslie as James, Robert, > William, Patrick, and John. James and John can be proven, > but it looks like he made up Robert, William and Patrick. T > here was another son which can be proven and that is Andrew. > There is no evidence that the Margaret Kincaid who > married Alexander Johnston of the Kincaids of that Ilk. > He was of Dalderse and there were Kincaids in that immediate > area which family she more likely a member of. The only > spouse I have seen for Stephen Kincaid was Cristian > Abercrumbie. > > I don't know where he got that Margaret Hamilton, > wife of James Kincaid of that Ilk, son of James Kincaid > of that Ilk and Christian Leslie, was the daughter of a > Kincaid. Her father was Sir Robert Hamilton of > Goslington. > > The Lang charter no. 2407 relates to James Kincaid of > Coates, not James Kincaid of that Ilk. There is no > indication that the Agnes Kincaid and Andrew Johnston > that are also mentioned in charter no. 2407 is a daughter > of James Kincaid of that Ilk. > > The James Kincaid of that Ilk who died at the end of the > 1600s did have a son Alexander but there is nothing to > indicate, other than H.C.K, that he was a pharmacist in > Edinburgh, nor do we know from Scottish records reviewed > to date, any children of Alexander Kincaid, son of James > Kincaid of that Ilk. While an son Alexander has recently > been found, a brother David has not. > > The Alexander Kincaid, writer in Edinburgh and his son > Alexander Kincaid, King's stationer and Lord Provost of > Edinburgh, are of the Kincaids of Grange. > > I leave the American Kincaids to other researchers on this > list to correct. > > It seems to me that a fundamental error by H.C.K. is that > he assumed that if a Kincaid is mentioned in a charter with > another Kincaid then they were siblings. If a Kincaid was > parting with some land then it was a practice for near heirs > to consent to or witness the selling. However, the near > heirs could have been 2nd or 3rd cousins. It was also a > practice for neighbours to witness the conveying. So in > addition to Kincaids being near heirs they could also have > been neighbours. So unless specifically stated one can't > suggest a close relationship unless a pattern emerges over > several documents. > > I think you can see from above how much of a mess > the early Kincaid history is. Sprinkled in among a bunch > of waste is legitimate records which made things look > more than it was. > > Best wishes! > > Peter A. Kincaid > Fredericton, NB, Canada > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:04 AM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > > >> It seems to me that it is not helpful for this document >> to be up on the Internet without an attached errata. >> Since he was a doctor who was a President of >> a genealogical association the assumption is that it is a >> professional document. However, the first part is a mess. >> He clearly pulled names out of several Scottish sources >> (and by all means not a significant number of sources) and >> made some Lairds of Kincaid that never were Lairds >> of Kincaid. >> >> While previous work can be useful sometimes old stuff >> can be to risky to keep using. As an analogy one just >> has to look at how many kids cribs, toys, seats, etc. that >> were in great shape, but that we have had to throw away >> because of their danger to our kids. Likewise, there is >> no use in bringing out H.C. Kincaid's paper without >> stripping it of its false parts. >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Norman Kincaide" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:59 AM >> Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography >> >> >>> Dear Kincaid Listers, >>> >>> I have created a new file: Kincaid Genealogical Historiography at >>> >>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kincaide/Kincaid%20Genealogical%20Historiography/ >>> >>> I have added two documents: an introduction and Dr. Herbert Clark >>> Kincaid's Kincaid Genealogy, since there had been some interest in that >>> document recently I have posted his work under Kincaid Genealogical >>> Historiography. >>> >>> Sincerely >>> Norman Kincaide > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ann's first husband was Burrough Kincaid, son of David/Winifred. He died Augusta Co. in 1763 with wife Ann administrator of his estate and Joseph Kincaid one of the bond securers. Her second husband was Robert Williams who in 1786 mentions in his Sullivan Co. TN will his wife Ann, her son David Kincaid and her sister Rebecca's son David Kincaid. These relationships are given in his will. In 1752 David Kinkead and wife Winifred sell to Joseph and Burrough Kinkead land in Albemarle Co. Joseph sold his part of this land in 1768. Burrough's son David of Hawkins Co. NC [my sic: this is in TN] sold Burrough's part of the land in 1790. In this deed it is states that David and Winifred sold this land to their sons Joseph and Burrough. Wife's names are notoriously missing from early Amhurst Co. deeds (Amhurst from Albemarle 1761).. In 1777 Rebecca, wife of Joseph Kincaid of Washington Co. (Hawkins from Sullivan 1786, Sullivan from Washington 1779) released dower on land on Christian's Creek in Beverly Manor which Joseph bought from William & Mary Armstrong in 1762. This same William Armstrong is a neighbor in Hawkins Co. It should be mentioned that Frederick Co. was pulled from Orange and Augusta Cos 1738-43. At that time it also included much of Warren Co. I found no other daughter county for Frederick other than the city of Winchestor pulled 9 sq miles from it. These counties are in the NW corner of present VA and quite some distance from the present Augusta/Albermarle/Amhurst area where the family of David/Winifred lived. The Woods-Lewis connection may be important. Deeds of lease and release David Lewis to David and James Kinkead were recorded in Albemarle Co. on Nov 28, 1745. This land is next to Michael Woods. I am not sure how or if David Lewis and Michael Woods are related to John Lewis and James Woods. Michael Wood's 1761 Albemarle will does not name a son James. A James Woods in 1755 was granted 350a on the N side of the N branch of Meechums River. This is the terminology used for Stockton Creek where most of David Kinkead's land was located. Whether this is the same James Woods mentioned in Barb's post is hard to say. A Robinson was son-in-law to Chiswell who held a very large patent in Albemarle/Amhurst Cos. Joseph and Burrough's land bought from David/Winifred bordered this patent. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > Who was Ann Calvert's first husband? From what I have read, the Calverts > were Quakers. Here is more about the Calvert and Hollingsworth families: > http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jayken/hollingsworth/hr/65010255.htm > > I have found information about allied families of or near Winchester, > Frederick County, Virginia which include the > Calverts, Cochrans, Ruthersfords, and James Wood, Sr. and Jr. > > James Wood, Jr. married Jean Moncure, and he was the governor of Virginia > from 1796-1799. Agatha Chinn, who married William Kinkead in 1787 in > Frederick County, was the adopted daughter of James Wood, Jr. and Jean > Moncure. > > James Wood, Sr. was married to Mary Rutherford, the sister of the Robert > Rutherford in the 1752 deed below. There are a number of references to > Mary > Wood in Chalkley's. > > James Wood, Sr. was a surveyor in early Virginia. He also is in the > Chalkley records of the Scots-Irish. He is shown in this record with > Thomas > and Andrew Lewis and the Robinsons. > > "An order of council, dated October 19, 1743, placed 30,000 acres of > public > land in the control of James and Henry Robinson, James Wood, and Thomas > and > Andrew Lewis. The Robinsons were aristocratic planters of Tidewater > Virginia. Colonel Wood was the surveyor of Frederick county and a > prominent > land monopolist. These names occur among the grantees because it was very > important to secure the aid of influential men who stood in with those in > places of authority, and could therefore put the project "across." Thomas > and Andrew Lewis, then twenty-five and twenty-three years old, > respectively, > were sons of Colonel John Lewis, the leader in the settlement of Augusta. > They seem to have been the only active members of the syndicate, and they > did the surveying."....... > > http://genealogytrails.com/vir/alleghany/history.html > > > Barbara > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Liedtke > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > > The will for John Calvert and the will for Ann's second husband pretty > much > shows this though the confirming deed showing that Ann, dau of John was > indeed a Kincaid is the last nail needed. I am wondering about the 1752 > date > at the start as the survey date mentions 1757. That seems a bit odd. > > Sue Liedtke > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > > >>I believe that Rebecca Calvert and her sister Ann were daughters of John >> Calvert of Frederick County, VA. >> >> This is a message from Dennis House in 2004: >> >> "<<Burroughs to Ann Calvert, >> >> >> Have you seen this record? I just found it last week. The "sic" is part >> of >> the record as recorded in Northern neck Warrants and Surveys. >> >> FRED 10/09/1752 NNWS- II-135 Robert Rutherford, assignee of Rebecca >> Calvert & Ann Calvert Kinkiad (sic); no war(t), date from surv 9 Oct >> 1752 - >> 31 Dec. 1757; 400a on Red Bud Run, a br. Of Opeckon surv'd in 1732 >> (752a.) >> for Jno Calvert who willed to 3 children. Rebecca & Ann have sold their >> part; adj. Enoch Pearson, Isaac Hollingsworth, Great Waggon road, Rich'd >> Calvert, Geo. Bruce. CC Edwd Griffith, Rich'd Abbet, Thos Spenser & Wm >> Duckworth." >> >> ******************************* >> >> "John Calvert (John2, Thomas1) was born circa 1689 at Upper Providence >> Township, now Delaware County, Pennsylvania (son of John Calvert and >> Judith >> Stamper). He moved to Orange County, Virginia in 1732 (became Frederick >> County in 1743), with a group of Quakers who had secured land through >> Alexander Ross. He is listed as one of the “Fathers of the Colony” (see >> information on Hopewell Meeting). On November 12, 1735, the State of >> Virginia granted John Calvert 850 acres of land beginning at two white >> oaks >> and a hickory near Abraham Hollingsworth’s line. (24) This land was >> located >> in what is now Frederick County, Virginia, east of the village of >> Kernstown, >> is a few miles southwest of the town of Winchester. John Calvert’s land >> of >> 850 acres was located next to Abraham Hollingsworths on Red Bud Creek. >> Abraham Hollingsworth house, “Abram’s Delight,” built 1754 is oldest >> house >> in Winchester, Virginia, and now houses the Winchester/Frederick County >> Historical Society. His home is said to have served as the first Quaker >> Meeting house >> >> The will of John Calvert dated October 2, 1738; proved June 28, 1739; was >> recorded in Orange County, Virginia (now Frederick County). (25) He >> called >> himself of the Colony of Virginia, and county of Orange, and willed his >> wife >> Jane Calvert one-third of all his lands, during her life. To his sons >> Robert >> and Isaiah the remainer of land, 850 acres, whereupon John Stephens now >> lives; to daughter Margaret, 300 acres of land called Hogg Run. To >> Rebecca >> and Ann Calvert, 200 acres each. To son Richard Calvert [or Robert, two >> transcriptions differ] the remainer of 992 acres at the death of his >> mother. >> To wife Jane Calvert my young mare 2 years old, with bald face, and the >> old >> mare. To son Robert Calvert the gray horse. To son Isaiah Calvert his >> choice >> of horses. To niece Elizabeth Carey or Cory, the brindle cow and calf. To >> daughters Margery, Rebecca and Ann a mare each. Rest of the estate to the >> children. Sons Robert and Isaiah Calvert executors. Witnesses, Terence >> Notley and Henry Jones. >> >> "http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hutch/LAIRD/Calvert.htm >> >> >> Barbara >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sue Liedtke >> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:00 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 >> >> The first panel (markers 1-12) has been returned from the lab. #198598 >> matches the Group A AAV exactly at these markers. While this panel is not >> a >> good predictor because of so many matches to other surnames, the results >> do >> increase the probality that there isn't a DNA break in his paternal >> Kincaid >> line. The rest of the results for his 37 marker order are not due back >> until >> mid April but may start coming in anytime after the first. >> >> A vetting post to David/Winifred Hobson through their son Joseph/Rebecca >> Calvert's son David/Mary Williams is nearing completion. A great deal >> effort >> is being made to gather every shred of evidence available to support the >> lineage as it is so important to Virginia Kincaids. >> >> Note that the 2 other lines who believe descent from David/Winifred have >> an >> 11 at marker 4 (DYS >> 391). Both lines are believed to come through David/Winifred's son >> John/Elizabeth Logan. It may be that John was the first in this line with >> the marker 4 mutation that plagues many of Group A's lines. >> >> Sue Liedtke >> >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls >> >> To join the DNA project, go to: >> www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

-----Original Message----- From: Barbara Van Hout Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography The 'Kyncaid' or 'Kyncade' spelling is also found in the older records at www.google.com/books. -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Van Hout Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:04 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography The Google books website gives access to some very old records when you enter "Kincaid of that Ilk". www.google.com/books I have browsed these records, but haven't put anything in chronological order, nor have I read through all of the records. Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Peter A. Kincaid Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography I am not able to give a good sourced errata for Dr. Herbert Clarke Kincaid's (hereafter H.C.K.) paper now, but may do one sometime for kyncades.org in the myth section. However, since the paper is out there now I thought I would give a quick running commentary based on documentation I have. The documentation will have to follow on the website at a future date. In 1238/9 the lands of Kincaid were granted to William son of Arthur son of Galbrait not William Galbraith. The latter is a surname while the former may well be a ethnic identity. There is no indication that there were lands called Galbraith. A good part of the Kincaid lands were conveyed to others over the next 40 years. Some remained with the heirs of Wiliam son of Arthur son of Galbrait. There is nothing to say that the Galbrait here was Gillespic Galbraith. Just like Simon the Fleming may have no connection to Robert the Fleming there may have been no connection between Arthur and Gillespic. Regardless of who owned the Kincaid lands at the beginning of the 1300s, the earliest located person bearing the Kincaid surname was in 1425. In between a lot of people had been forfeited of their lands by treason and wars in Scotland so there is nothing to say the Laird of Kincaid in 1425 was descended in any way from those that held the lands in 1300. It is clear that William son of Arthur son of Galbrait held his lands directly of the Earls of Lennox but the Kincaids held their lands of the Hamiltons of Buthernock who held of the Earls of Lennox. By H.C.K's reasoning the Hamiltons of Buthernock would be first in line to be heirs of William son of Arthur son of Galbraith before the Kincaids. There is no evidence of a Francis Kincaid or a Francis Galbraith at the beginning of the 1300s. H.C.K. is making Sir William Francis (i.e. the Frank or Frenchman) who helped in the capture of Edinburgh castle a Kincaid. If he was his name was William not Francis. Francis is his ethnic origin. The point of 1/4 of the lands of Kincaid being parted with about 1350 seems to be made up. The lands of Kincaid had been broken up into quarters a hundred years earlier. Donald de Kyncade of 1464/5 was not Laird of Kincaid. He was junior to Robert de Kyncade de Craglokkard (Craiglockhart) who, if he was not then Laird of Kincaid, was the one from which the later Lairds of Kincaid descended. Donald was of the Lairds of Kincaid line but it is uncertain who his father was. His only son we can be certain of is Robert. The Laird of Kincaid in 1486 was William Kyncade of that Ilk. The David de Kincaid who was a witness to the Ballinkere charter was not Laird of Kincaid but he was probably his younger brother. William Kincaid of that Ilk had no legitimate children. His heir was his brother Patrick whose daughter, Elizabeth, later became Elizabeth Kincaid of that Ilk. She married Thomas Kincaid of the Kincaids of Coates. He was certainly not her cousin as it was then unlawful to wed your cousins. You needed special (and very expensive authorization) from the Pope to marry someone who shared anything less than a great great grandfather and that included relatives of spouses. I see no indication that the John Kincaid who got the lands of Boneside was a brother of William Kincaid of that Ilk (fl 1470s). Timeline wise he fits in the previous generation. Edward Kincaid was not a son of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk. He was almost certainly a brother. The evidence is that Margaret Seton was a later wife of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk who had married Elizabeth Kincaid, daughter and heir of Patrick Kincaid of that Ilk. Margaret Seton was the daughter of Sir Alexander Seton and brother of Ninian Seton of the Setons of Tullibody. I don't see any evidence that Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk had sons Malcolm and George. I believe the Malcolm and George that H.C.K. was referring to were the grandsons of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk. It is also not certain if he had a son Richard. There was a Richard Kincaid and he could be Thoams' son but he could also have been a relative of Thomas' first wife Elizabeth Kincaid, daughter of Patrick Kincaid of that Ilk. I have a copy of the Will of Isabel Kincaid wife of Thomas Peebles and see no evidence that she was a daughter of the first James Kincaid of that Ilk. There is nothing to suggest that there was a James Kincaid of that Ilk who died about 1584. The evidence was that James Kincaid of that Ilk, son of Elizabeth Kincaid of that Ilk and Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk, was born about 1512 and died in 1604. He was succeeded by his son James Kincaid of that Ilk who appears to have been born in the late 1530s and who subsequently married Christian Leslie, daughter of George Leslie, Earl of Rothes. He died in 1606. H.C.K. has as sons of James Kincaid of that Ilk and Christian Leslie as James, Robert, William, Patrick, and John. James and John can be proven, but it looks like he made up Robert, William and Patrick. T here was another son which can be proven and that is Andrew. There is no evidence that the Margaret Kincaid who married Alexander Johnston of the Kincaids of that Ilk. He was of Dalderse and there were Kincaids in that immediate area which family she more likely a member of. The only spouse I have seen for Stephen Kincaid was Cristian Abercrumbie. I don't know where he got that Margaret Hamilton, wife of James Kincaid of that Ilk, son of James Kincaid of that Ilk and Christian Leslie, was the daughter of a Kincaid. Her father was Sir Robert Hamilton of Goslington. The Lang charter no. 2407 relates to James Kincaid of Coates, not James Kincaid of that Ilk. There is no indication that the Agnes Kincaid and Andrew Johnston that are also mentioned in charter no. 2407 is a daughter of James Kincaid of that Ilk. The James Kincaid of that Ilk who died at the end of the 1600s did have a son Alexander but there is nothing to indicate, other than H.C.K, that he was a pharmacist in Edinburgh, nor do we know from Scottish records reviewed to date, any children of Alexander Kincaid, son of James Kincaid of that Ilk. While an son Alexander has recently been found, a brother David has not. The Alexander Kincaid, writer in Edinburgh and his son Alexander Kincaid, King's stationer and Lord Provost of Edinburgh, are of the Kincaids of Grange. I leave the American Kincaids to other researchers on this list to correct. It seems to me that a fundamental error by H.C.K. is that he assumed that if a Kincaid is mentioned in a charter with another Kincaid then they were siblings. If a Kincaid was parting with some land then it was a practice for near heirs to consent to or witness the selling. However, the near heirs could have been 2nd or 3rd cousins. It was also a practice for neighbours to witness the conveying. So in addition to Kincaids being near heirs they could also have been neighbours. So unless specifically stated one can't suggest a close relationship unless a pattern emerges over several documents. I think you can see from above how much of a mess the early Kincaid history is. Sprinkled in among a bunch of waste is legitimate records which made things look more than it was. Best wishes! Peter A. Kincaid Fredericton, NB, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > It seems to me that it is not helpful for this document > to be up on the Internet without an attached errata. > Since he was a doctor who was a President of > a genealogical association the assumption is that it is a > professional document. However, the first part is a mess. > He clearly pulled names out of several Scottish sources > (and by all means not a significant number of sources) and > made some Lairds of Kincaid that never were Lairds > of Kincaid. > > While previous work can be useful sometimes old stuff > can be to risky to keep using. As an analogy one just > has to look at how many kids cribs, toys, seats, etc. that > were in great shape, but that we have had to throw away > because of their danger to our kids. Likewise, there is > no use in bringing out H.C. Kincaid's paper without > stripping it of its false parts. > > Peter > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:59 AM > Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > > >> Dear Kincaid Listers, >> >> I have created a new file: Kincaid Genealogical Historiography at >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kincaide/Kincaid%20Genealogical%20Historiography/ >> >> I have added two documents: an introduction and Dr. Herbert Clark >> Kincaid's Kincaid Genealogy, since there had been some interest in that >> document recently I have posted his work under Kincaid Genealogical >> Historiography. >> >> Sincerely >> Norman Kincaide To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Google books website gives access to some very old records when you enter "Kincaid of that Ilk". www.google.com/books I have browsed these records, but haven't put anything in chronological order, nor have I read through all of the records. Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Peter A. Kincaid Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:36 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography I am not able to give a good sourced errata for Dr. Herbert Clarke Kincaid's (hereafter H.C.K.) paper now, but may do one sometime for kyncades.org in the myth section. However, since the paper is out there now I thought I would give a quick running commentary based on documentation I have. The documentation will have to follow on the website at a future date. In 1238/9 the lands of Kincaid were granted to William son of Arthur son of Galbrait not William Galbraith. The latter is a surname while the former may well be a ethnic identity. There is no indication that there were lands called Galbraith. A good part of the Kincaid lands were conveyed to others over the next 40 years. Some remained with the heirs of Wiliam son of Arthur son of Galbrait. There is nothing to say that the Galbrait here was Gillespic Galbraith. Just like Simon the Fleming may have no connection to Robert the Fleming there may have been no connection between Arthur and Gillespic. Regardless of who owned the Kincaid lands at the beginning of the 1300s, the earliest located person bearing the Kincaid surname was in 1425. In between a lot of people had been forfeited of their lands by treason and wars in Scotland so there is nothing to say the Laird of Kincaid in 1425 was descended in any way from those that held the lands in 1300. It is clear that William son of Arthur son of Galbrait held his lands directly of the Earls of Lennox but the Kincaids held their lands of the Hamiltons of Buthernock who held of the Earls of Lennox. By H.C.K's reasoning the Hamiltons of Buthernock would be first in line to be heirs of William son of Arthur son of Galbraith before the Kincaids. There is no evidence of a Francis Kincaid or a Francis Galbraith at the beginning of the 1300s. H.C.K. is making Sir William Francis (i.e. the Frank or Frenchman) who helped in the capture of Edinburgh castle a Kincaid. If he was his name was William not Francis. Francis is his ethnic origin. The point of 1/4 of the lands of Kincaid being parted with about 1350 seems to be made up. The lands of Kincaid had been broken up into quarters a hundred years earlier. Donald de Kyncade of 1464/5 was not Laird of Kincaid. He was junior to Robert de Kyncade de Craglokkard (Craiglockhart) who, if he was not then Laird of Kincaid, was the one from which the later Lairds of Kincaid descended. Donald was of the Lairds of Kincaid line but it is uncertain who his father was. His only son we can be certain of is Robert. The Laird of Kincaid in 1486 was William Kyncade of that Ilk. The David de Kincaid who was a witness to the Ballinkere charter was not Laird of Kincaid but he was probably his younger brother. William Kincaid of that Ilk had no legitimate children. His heir was his brother Patrick whose daughter, Elizabeth, later became Elizabeth Kincaid of that Ilk. She married Thomas Kincaid of the Kincaids of Coates. He was certainly not her cousin as it was then unlawful to wed your cousins. You needed special (and very expensive authorization) from the Pope to marry someone who shared anything less than a great great grandfather and that included relatives of spouses. I see no indication that the John Kincaid who got the lands of Boneside was a brother of William Kincaid of that Ilk (fl 1470s). Timeline wise he fits in the previous generation. Edward Kincaid was not a son of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk. He was almost certainly a brother. The evidence is that Margaret Seton was a later wife of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk who had married Elizabeth Kincaid, daughter and heir of Patrick Kincaid of that Ilk. Margaret Seton was the daughter of Sir Alexander Seton and brother of Ninian Seton of the Setons of Tullibody. I don't see any evidence that Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk had sons Malcolm and George. I believe the Malcolm and George that H.C.K. was referring to were the grandsons of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk. It is also not certain if he had a son Richard. There was a Richard Kincaid and he could be Thoams' son but he could also have been a relative of Thomas' first wife Elizabeth Kincaid, daughter of Patrick Kincaid of that Ilk. I have a copy of the Will of Isabel Kincaid wife of Thomas Peebles and see no evidence that she was a daughter of the first James Kincaid of that Ilk. There is nothing to suggest that there was a James Kincaid of that Ilk who died about 1584. The evidence was that James Kincaid of that Ilk, son of Elizabeth Kincaid of that Ilk and Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk, was born about 1512 and died in 1604. He was succeeded by his son James Kincaid of that Ilk who appears to have been born in the late 1530s and who subsequently married Christian Leslie, daughter of George Leslie, Earl of Rothes. He died in 1606. H.C.K. has as sons of James Kincaid of that Ilk and Christian Leslie as James, Robert, William, Patrick, and John. James and John can be proven, but it looks like he made up Robert, William and Patrick. T here was another son which can be proven and that is Andrew. There is no evidence that the Margaret Kincaid who married Alexander Johnston of the Kincaids of that Ilk. He was of Dalderse and there were Kincaids in that immediate area which family she more likely a member of. The only spouse I have seen for Stephen Kincaid was Cristian Abercrumbie. I don't know where he got that Margaret Hamilton, wife of James Kincaid of that Ilk, son of James Kincaid of that Ilk and Christian Leslie, was the daughter of a Kincaid. Her father was Sir Robert Hamilton of Goslington. The Lang charter no. 2407 relates to James Kincaid of Coates, not James Kincaid of that Ilk. There is no indication that the Agnes Kincaid and Andrew Johnston that are also mentioned in charter no. 2407 is a daughter of James Kincaid of that Ilk. The James Kincaid of that Ilk who died at the end of the 1600s did have a son Alexander but there is nothing to indicate, other than H.C.K, that he was a pharmacist in Edinburgh, nor do we know from Scottish records reviewed to date, any children of Alexander Kincaid, son of James Kincaid of that Ilk. While an son Alexander has recently been found, a brother David has not. The Alexander Kincaid, writer in Edinburgh and his son Alexander Kincaid, King's stationer and Lord Provost of Edinburgh, are of the Kincaids of Grange. I leave the American Kincaids to other researchers on this list to correct. It seems to me that a fundamental error by H.C.K. is that he assumed that if a Kincaid is mentioned in a charter with another Kincaid then they were siblings. If a Kincaid was parting with some land then it was a practice for near heirs to consent to or witness the selling. However, the near heirs could have been 2nd or 3rd cousins. It was also a practice for neighbours to witness the conveying. So in addition to Kincaids being near heirs they could also have been neighbours. So unless specifically stated one can't suggest a close relationship unless a pattern emerges over several documents. I think you can see from above how much of a mess the early Kincaid history is. Sprinkled in among a bunch of waste is legitimate records which made things look more than it was. Best wishes! Peter A. Kincaid Fredericton, NB, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > It seems to me that it is not helpful for this document > to be up on the Internet without an attached errata. > Since he was a doctor who was a President of > a genealogical association the assumption is that it is a > professional document. However, the first part is a mess. > He clearly pulled names out of several Scottish sources > (and by all means not a significant number of sources) and > made some Lairds of Kincaid that never were Lairds > of Kincaid. > > While previous work can be useful sometimes old stuff > can be to risky to keep using. As an analogy one just > has to look at how many kids cribs, toys, seats, etc. that > were in great shape, but that we have had to throw away > because of their danger to our kids. Likewise, there is > no use in bringing out H.C. Kincaid's paper without > stripping it of its false parts. > > Peter > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:59 AM > Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > > >> Dear Kincaid Listers, >> >> I have created a new file: Kincaid Genealogical Historiography at >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kincaide/Kincaid%20Genealogical%20Historiography/ >> >> I have added two documents: an introduction and Dr. Herbert Clark >> Kincaid's Kincaid Genealogy, since there had been some interest in that >> document recently I have posted his work under Kincaid Genealogical >> Historiography. >> >> Sincerely >> Norman Kincaide To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am not able to give a good sourced errata for Dr. Herbert Clarke Kincaid's (hereafter H.C.K.) paper now, but may do one sometime for kyncades.org in the myth section. However, since the paper is out there now I thought I would give a quick running commentary based on documentation I have. The documentation will have to follow on the website at a future date. In 1238/9 the lands of Kincaid were granted to William son of Arthur son of Galbrait not William Galbraith. The latter is a surname while the former may well be a ethnic identity. There is no indication that there were lands called Galbraith. A good part of the Kincaid lands were conveyed to others over the next 40 years. Some remained with the heirs of Wiliam son of Arthur son of Galbrait. There is nothing to say that the Galbrait here was Gillespic Galbraith. Just like Simon the Fleming may have no connection to Robert the Fleming there may have been no connection between Arthur and Gillespic. Regardless of who owned the Kincaid lands at the beginning of the 1300s, the earliest located person bearing the Kincaid surname was in 1425. In between a lot of people had been forfeited of their lands by treason and wars in Scotland so there is nothing to say the Laird of Kincaid in 1425 was descended in any way from those that held the lands in 1300. It is clear that William son of Arthur son of Galbrait held his lands directly of the Earls of Lennox but the Kincaids held their lands of the Hamiltons of Buthernock who held of the Earls of Lennox. By H.C.K's reasoning the Hamiltons of Buthernock would be first in line to be heirs of William son of Arthur son of Galbraith before the Kincaids. There is no evidence of a Francis Kincaid or a Francis Galbraith at the beginning of the 1300s. H.C.K. is making Sir William Francis (i.e. the Frank or Frenchman) who helped in the capture of Edinburgh castle a Kincaid. If he was his name was William not Francis. Francis is his ethnic origin. The point of 1/4 of the lands of Kincaid being parted with about 1350 seems to be made up. The lands of Kincaid had been broken up into quarters a hundred years earlier. Donald de Kyncade of 1464/5 was not Laird of Kincaid. He was junior to Robert de Kyncade de Craglokkard (Craiglockhart) who, if he was not then Laird of Kincaid, was the one from which the later Lairds of Kincaid descended. Donald was of the Lairds of Kincaid line but it is uncertain who his father was. His only son we can be certain of is Robert. The Laird of Kincaid in 1486 was William Kyncade of that Ilk. The David de Kincaid who was a witness to the Ballinkere charter was not Laird of Kincaid but he was probably his younger brother. William Kincaid of that Ilk had no legitimate children. His heir was his brother Patrick whose daughter, Elizabeth, later became Elizabeth Kincaid of that Ilk. She married Thomas Kincaid of the Kincaids of Coates. He was certainly not her cousin as it was then unlawful to wed your cousins. You needed special (and very expensive authorization) from the Pope to marry someone who shared anything less than a great great grandfather and that included relatives of spouses. I see no indication that the John Kincaid who got the lands of Boneside was a brother of William Kincaid of that Ilk (fl 1470s). Timeline wise he fits in the previous generation. Edward Kincaid was not a son of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk. He was almost certainly a brother. The evidence is that Margaret Seton was a later wife of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk who had married Elizabeth Kincaid, daughter and heir of Patrick Kincaid of that Ilk. Margaret Seton was the daughter of Sir Alexander Seton and brother of Ninian Seton of the Setons of Tullibody. I don't see any evidence that Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk had sons Malcolm and George. I believe the Malcolm and George that H.C.K. was referring to were the grandsons of Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk. It is also not certain if he had a son Richard. There was a Richard Kincaid and he could be Thoams' son but he could also have been a relative of Thomas' first wife Elizabeth Kincaid, daughter of Patrick Kincaid of that Ilk. I have a copy of the Will of Isabel Kincaid wife of Thomas Peebles and see no evidence that she was a daughter of the first James Kincaid of that Ilk. There is nothing to suggest that there was a James Kincaid of that Ilk who died about 1584. The evidence was that James Kincaid of that Ilk, son of Elizabeth Kincaid of that Ilk and Thomas Kincaid of that Ilk, was born about 1512 and died in 1604. He was succeeded by his son James Kincaid of that Ilk who appears to have been born in the late 1530s and who subsequently married Christian Leslie, daughter of George Leslie, Earl of Rothes. He died in 1606. H.C.K. has as sons of James Kincaid of that Ilk and Christian Leslie as James, Robert, William, Patrick, and John. James and John can be proven, but it looks like he made up Robert, William and Patrick. T here was another son which can be proven and that is Andrew. There is no evidence that the Margaret Kincaid who married Alexander Johnston of the Kincaids of that Ilk. He was of Dalderse and there were Kincaids in that immediate area which family she more likely a member of. The only spouse I have seen for Stephen Kincaid was Cristian Abercrumbie. I don't know where he got that Margaret Hamilton, wife of James Kincaid of that Ilk, son of James Kincaid of that Ilk and Christian Leslie, was the daughter of a Kincaid. Her father was Sir Robert Hamilton of Goslington. The Lang charter no. 2407 relates to James Kincaid of Coates, not James Kincaid of that Ilk. There is no indication that the Agnes Kincaid and Andrew Johnston that are also mentioned in charter no. 2407 is a daughter of James Kincaid of that Ilk. The James Kincaid of that Ilk who died at the end of the 1600s did have a son Alexander but there is nothing to indicate, other than H.C.K, that he was a pharmacist in Edinburgh, nor do we know from Scottish records reviewed to date, any children of Alexander Kincaid, son of James Kincaid of that Ilk. While an son Alexander has recently been found, a brother David has not. The Alexander Kincaid, writer in Edinburgh and his son Alexander Kincaid, King's stationer and Lord Provost of Edinburgh, are of the Kincaids of Grange. I leave the American Kincaids to other researchers on this list to correct. It seems to me that a fundamental error by H.C.K. is that he assumed that if a Kincaid is mentioned in a charter with another Kincaid then they were siblings. If a Kincaid was parting with some land then it was a practice for near heirs to consent to or witness the selling. However, the near heirs could have been 2nd or 3rd cousins. It was also a practice for neighbours to witness the conveying. So in addition to Kincaids being near heirs they could also have been neighbours. So unless specifically stated one can't suggest a close relationship unless a pattern emerges over several documents. I think you can see from above how much of a mess the early Kincaid history is. Sprinkled in among a bunch of waste is legitimate records which made things look more than it was. Best wishes! Peter A. Kincaid Fredericton, NB, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > It seems to me that it is not helpful for this document > to be up on the Internet without an attached errata. > Since he was a doctor who was a President of > a genealogical association the assumption is that it is a > professional document. However, the first part is a mess. > He clearly pulled names out of several Scottish sources > (and by all means not a significant number of sources) and > made some Lairds of Kincaid that never were Lairds > of Kincaid. > > While previous work can be useful sometimes old stuff > can be to risky to keep using. As an analogy one just > has to look at how many kids cribs, toys, seats, etc. that > were in great shape, but that we have had to throw away > because of their danger to our kids. Likewise, there is > no use in bringing out H.C. Kincaid's paper without > stripping it of its false parts. > > Peter > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:59 AM > Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > > >> Dear Kincaid Listers, >> >> I have created a new file: Kincaid Genealogical Historiography at >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kincaide/Kincaid%20Genealogical%20Historiography/ >> >> I have added two documents: an introduction and Dr. Herbert Clark >> Kincaid's Kincaid Genealogy, since there had been some interest in that >> document recently I have posted his work under Kincaid Genealogical >> Historiography. >> >> Sincerely >> Norman Kincaide

Notice that John Calvert,Abraham Hollingsworth, George Hobson, Jr. & Sr., and Francis Tencher (Tincher) were among the early members. Was Francis Tencher a brother of Samuel Tincher, and uncle of Hannah who married Thomas Kincaid? How was Winifred Hobson Kinkead related to the George Hobsons below? HOPEWELL was the first Quaker meeting established in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. It was originally known as Opeckan and was set off from the Concord Quarterly Meeting of Pennsylvania in 1734. The actual date of first settlement is thought to be around 1730. The meeting house is located about 6 miles north of Winchester, Frederick Co., Virginia. A land grant of 100,000 acres was purchased on the Opeckan River. Many of the earliest settlers moved into the area from the Valley of the Monocacy in Maryland BORDEN, Benjamin 850 acres on the western slope of Apple Pie Ridge, many other large holdings CALVERT, John 850 acres near Abraham Hollinsworth, east of Kernstown. HOLLINGSWORTH, Abraham HOBSON, George Jr. HOBSON, George Sr. 937 acres on Middle Creek in what is now Berkeley Co., WV, adjacent to David Logan and John Mills. PARRALL, Hugh 466 acres adjoining John Calvert, near Kernstown, Frederick Co., VA. Many other tracts of land. ROSS, Alexander 2,373 acres 6 miles north of Winchester in Frederick Co., VA. On this tract stands the Hopewell Meeting House. TENCHER, Francis 150 acres on Middle Creek, now in Berkeley Co., WV >From Samuel Smith's History of Pennsylvania, a part of which was printed in the Register of Pennsylvania, Vol. VII, p. 134, edited by Samuel Hazard, is quoted here from Hopewell Friends History (1936). (Smith's History of Pennsylvania was compiled at the direction of Philadelphia Yearly Meeting in 1752.) About the year 1725, Henry Ballinger and Josiah Ballinger, from near Salem, in West Jersey; and soon after them James Wright, William Beals, and others from Nottingham, settled in the upper parts of Prince George's Co., Maryland, near a large creek called Monoquesey (Monocacy). About the year 1796, they applied to New Garden Monthly Meeting for liberty to hold a meeting for worship on first days, which was granted, and held at the house of Josiah Ballenger, and others till the year 1736, when a piece of ground was purchased and a meetinghouse built, which is called Cold Spring meetinghouse, where meetings are still kept. About the year 1732, Alexander Ross and Company obtained a grant from the Governor and Council at Williamsburgh in Virginia, for 100,000 acres of land near a large creek called Opeckan in the said colony, which about that time was settled by the said Alexander Ross, Josiah Ballenger, James Wright, Evan Thomas, and diverse other Friends from Pennsylvania and Elk River, in Maryland, who soon after obtained leave from the quarterly meeting of Chester, held at Concord, to hold a meeting for worship, soon after which land was purchased and a meetinghouse built, called Hopewell, where meetings are still held twice a week. . http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~quakers/hopewell.htm Bond of David Kinkead, Robert Worthington and Andrew Campbell unto Thomas Chew. Gent., justice. For£ 400. 23 July 1742 David Kinkead is admr. of John Hobson,dec. David Kinkead Robt. Worthington Andrew Campbell Wit. Catlett Conway.23 July 1742

Who was Ann Calvert's first husband? From what I have read, the Calverts were Quakers. Here is more about the Calvert and Hollingsworth families: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~jayken/hollingsworth/hr/65010255.htm I have found information about allied families of or near Winchester, Frederick County, Virginia which include the Calverts, Cochrans, Ruthersfords, and James Wood, Sr. and Jr. James Wood, Jr. married Jean Moncure, and he was the governor of Virginia from 1796-1799. Agatha Chinn, who married William Kinkead in 1787 in Frederick County, was the adopted daughter of James Wood, Jr. and Jean Moncure. James Wood, Sr. was married to Mary Rutherford, the sister of the Robert Rutherford in the 1752 deed below. There are a number of references to Mary Wood in Chalkley's. James Wood, Sr. was a surveyor in early Virginia. He also is in the Chalkley records of the Scots-Irish. He is shown in this record with Thomas and Andrew Lewis and the Robinsons. "An order of council, dated October 19, 1743, placed 30,000 acres of public land in the control of James and Henry Robinson, James Wood, and Thomas and Andrew Lewis. The Robinsons were aristocratic planters of Tidewater Virginia. Colonel Wood was the surveyor of Frederick county and a prominent land monopolist. These names occur among the grantees because it was very important to secure the aid of influential men who stood in with those in places of authority, and could therefore put the project "across." Thomas and Andrew Lewis, then twenty-five and twenty-three years old, respectively, were sons of Colonel John Lewis, the leader in the settlement of Augusta. They seem to have been the only active members of the syndicate, and they did the surveying."....... http://genealogytrails.com/vir/alleghany/history.html Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Sue Liedtke Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 The will for John Calvert and the will for Ann's second husband pretty much shows this though the confirming deed showing that Ann, dau of John was indeed a Kincaid is the last nail needed. I am wondering about the 1752 date at the start as the survey date mentions 1757. That seems a bit odd. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 >I believe that Rebecca Calvert and her sister Ann were daughters of John > Calvert of Frederick County, VA. > > This is a message from Dennis House in 2004: > > "<<Burroughs to Ann Calvert, >> > > Have you seen this record? I just found it last week. The "sic" is part of > the record as recorded in Northern neck Warrants and Surveys. > > FRED 10/09/1752 NNWS- II-135 Robert Rutherford, assignee of Rebecca > Calvert & Ann Calvert Kinkiad (sic); no war(t), date from surv 9 Oct > 1752 - > 31 Dec. 1757; 400a on Red Bud Run, a br. Of Opeckon surv'd in 1732 (752a.) > for Jno Calvert who willed to 3 children. Rebecca & Ann have sold their > part; adj. Enoch Pearson, Isaac Hollingsworth, Great Waggon road, Rich'd > Calvert, Geo. Bruce. CC Edwd Griffith, Rich'd Abbet, Thos Spenser & Wm > Duckworth." > > ******************************* > > "John Calvert (John2, Thomas1) was born circa 1689 at Upper Providence > Township, now Delaware County, Pennsylvania (son of John Calvert and > Judith > Stamper). He moved to Orange County, Virginia in 1732 (became Frederick > County in 1743), with a group of Quakers who had secured land through > Alexander Ross. He is listed as one of the “Fathers of the Colony” (see > information on Hopewell Meeting). On November 12, 1735, the State of > Virginia granted John Calvert 850 acres of land beginning at two white > oaks > and a hickory near Abraham Hollingsworth’s line. (24) This land was > located > in what is now Frederick County, Virginia, east of the village of > Kernstown, > is a few miles southwest of the town of Winchester. John Calvert’s land of > 850 acres was located next to Abraham Hollingsworths on Red Bud Creek. > Abraham Hollingsworth house, “Abram’s Delight,” built 1754 is oldest house > in Winchester, Virginia, and now houses the Winchester/Frederick County > Historical Society. His home is said to have served as the first Quaker > Meeting house > > The will of John Calvert dated October 2, 1738; proved June 28, 1739; was > recorded in Orange County, Virginia (now Frederick County). (25) He called > himself of the Colony of Virginia, and county of Orange, and willed his > wife > Jane Calvert one-third of all his lands, during her life. To his sons > Robert > and Isaiah the remainer of land, 850 acres, whereupon John Stephens now > lives; to daughter Margaret, 300 acres of land called Hogg Run. To Rebecca > and Ann Calvert, 200 acres each. To son Richard Calvert [or Robert, two > transcriptions differ] the remainer of 992 acres at the death of his > mother. > To wife Jane Calvert my young mare 2 years old, with bald face, and the > old > mare. To son Robert Calvert the gray horse. To son Isaiah Calvert his > choice > of horses. To niece Elizabeth Carey or Cory, the brindle cow and calf. To > daughters Margery, Rebecca and Ann a mare each. Rest of the estate to the > children. Sons Robert and Isaiah Calvert executors. Witnesses, Terence > Notley and Henry Jones. > > "http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hutch/LAIRD/Calvert.htm > > > Barbara > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Liedtke > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > > The first panel (markers 1-12) has been returned from the lab. #198598 > matches the Group A AAV exactly at these markers. While this panel is not > a > good predictor because of so many matches to other surnames, the results > do > increase the probality that there isn't a DNA break in his paternal > Kincaid > line. The rest of the results for his 37 marker order are not due back > until > mid April but may start coming in anytime after the first. > > A vetting post to David/Winifred Hobson through their son Joseph/Rebecca > Calvert's son David/Mary Williams is nearing completion. A great deal > effort > is being made to gather every shred of evidence available to support the > lineage as it is so important to Virginia Kincaids. > > Note that the 2 other lines who believe descent from David/Winifred have > an > 11 at marker 4 (DYS > 391). Both lines are believed to come through David/Winifred's son > John/Elizabeth Logan. It may be that John was the first in this line with > the marker 4 mutation that plagues many of Group A's lines. > > Sue Liedtke > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sue, I need some advice on growing tomatoes. Last year, we planted tomatoes in two areas. The tomato plants that had been placed for several years in the area next to our garage died out, due to yellowing of the leaves. The tomatoes that were planted in the new area for the first time did great. Should we stop using the old area where the plants had some kind of blight? Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Don W. Kincaid Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:16 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 We cleared security! I hit reply instead of forward when I answered Sue's post but now everyone knows Sue is a good gardener! Don Barbara Van Hout <[email protected]> wrote: >We all hope things go well and you will be back as planned. > >Barbara > >-----Original Message----- >From: Don W Kincaid >Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:05 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > >Good news so far. > >We fly to Rochester, MN early tomorrow and will be back 3/28 if all goes >well. We will have our computer with us but no files to speak of. Will try >to get taxes done while in the waiting room! > >We are going to be redoing our back yard here in Gilbert and your comment >about gardening is small spaces has given us some ideas to incorporate. > >Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sue Liedtke > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:00 PM > Subject: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > > > The first panel (markers 1-12) has been returned from the lab. #198598 > matches the Group A AAV exactly at these markers. While this panel is not >a > good predictor because of so many matches to other surnames, the results >do > increase the probality that there isn't a DNA break in his paternal >Kincaid > line. The rest of the results for his 37 marker order are not due back >until > mid April but may start coming in anytime after the first. > > A vetting post to David/Winifred Hobson through their son Joseph/Rebecca > Calvert's son David/Mary Williams is nearing completion. A great deal >effort > is being made to gather every shred of evidence available to support the > lineage as it is so important to Virginia Kincaids. > > Note that the 2 other lines who believe descent from David/Winifred have >an > 11 at marker 4 (DYS > 391). Both lines are believed to come through David/Winifred's son > John/Elizabeth Logan. It may be that John was the first in this line with > the marker 4 mutation that plagues many of Group A's lines. > > Sue Liedtke > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message >To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > >To join the DNA project, go to: >www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > >To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > >To join the DNA project, go to: >www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It seems to me that it is not helpful for this document to be up on the Internet without an attached errata. Since he was a doctor who was a President of a genealogical association the assumption is that it is a professional document. However, the first part is a mess. He clearly pulled names out of several Scottish sources (and by all means not a significant number of sources) and made some Lairds of Kincaid that never were Lairds of Kincaid. While previous work can be useful sometimes old stuff can be to risky to keep using. As an analogy one just has to look at how many kids cribs, toys, seats, etc. that were in great shape, but that we have had to throw away because of their danger to our kids. Likewise, there is no use in bringing out H.C. Kincaid's paper without stripping it of its false parts. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Norman Kincaide" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:59 AM Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > Dear Kincaid Listers, > > I have created a new file: Kincaid Genealogical Historiography at > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kincaide/Kincaid%20Genealogical%20Historiography/ > > I have added two documents: an introduction and Dr. Herbert Clark > Kincaid's Kincaid Genealogy, since there had been some interest in that > document recently I have posted his work under Kincaid Genealogical > Historiography. > > Sincerely > Norman Kincaide

We all hope things go well and you will be back as planned. Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Don W Kincaid Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:05 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 Good news so far. We fly to Rochester, MN early tomorrow and will be back 3/28 if all goes well. We will have our computer with us but no files to speak of. Will try to get taxes done while in the waiting room! We are going to be redoing our back yard here in Gilbert and your comment about gardening is small spaces has given us some ideas to incorporate. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liedtke To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:00 PM Subject: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 The first panel (markers 1-12) has been returned from the lab. #198598 matches the Group A AAV exactly at these markers. While this panel is not a good predictor because of so many matches to other surnames, the results do increase the probality that there isn't a DNA break in his paternal Kincaid line. The rest of the results for his 37 marker order are not due back until mid April but may start coming in anytime after the first. A vetting post to David/Winifred Hobson through their son Joseph/Rebecca Calvert's son David/Mary Williams is nearing completion. A great deal effort is being made to gather every shred of evidence available to support the lineage as it is so important to Virginia Kincaids. Note that the 2 other lines who believe descent from David/Winifred have an 11 at marker 4 (DYS 391). Both lines are believed to come through David/Winifred's son John/Elizabeth Logan. It may be that John was the first in this line with the marker 4 mutation that plagues many of Group A's lines. Sue Liedtke To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I know that Norman is planning on adding explanation of where HC made erroneous conclusions. He has asked me to go through the Virginia section to make comments. It may take me a week or so but I am more than happy to do that. Many years ago you started posting a rebuttal of his Scottish portions. Did you ever finish that? Perhaps Norman can find that post and copy it onto the website. You were doing an excellent critique of his work. I do think that it is best to know what erroneous material has been widely spread but do agree that a critique of the material should accompany it. There also may be some validity or at least clues in his work concerning the generations closest to him and for his direct Group C line. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > It seems to me that it is not helpful for this document > to be up on the Internet without an attached errata. > Since he was a doctor who was a President of > a genealogical association the assumption is that it is a > professional document. However, the first part is a mess. > He clearly pulled names out of several Scottish sources > (and by all means not a significant number of sources) and > made some Lairds of Kincaid that never were Lairds > of Kincaid. > > While previous work can be useful sometimes old stuff > can be to risky to keep using. As an analogy one just > has to look at how many kids cribs, toys, seats, etc. that > were in great shape, but that we have had to throw away > because of their danger to our kids. Likewise, there is > no use in bringing out H.C. Kincaid's paper without > stripping it of its false parts. > > Peter > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Norman Kincaide" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:59 AM > Subject: [KINCAID] Kincaid Genealogical Historiography > > >> Dear Kincaid Listers, >> >> I have created a new file: Kincaid Genealogical Historiography at >> >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~kincaide/Kincaid%20Genealogical%20Historiography/ >> >> I have added two documents: an introduction and Dr. Herbert Clark >> Kincaid's Kincaid Genealogy, since there had been some interest in that >> document recently I have posted his work under Kincaid Genealogical >> Historiography. >> >> Sincerely >> Norman Kincaide > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The will for John Calvert and the will for Ann's second husband pretty much shows this though the confirming deed showing that Ann, dau of John was indeed a Kincaid is the last nail needed. I am wondering about the 1752 date at the start as the survey date mentions 1757. That seems a bit odd. Sue Liedtke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Van Hout" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 >I believe that Rebecca Calvert and her sister Ann were daughters of John > Calvert of Frederick County, VA. > > This is a message from Dennis House in 2004: > > "<<Burroughs to Ann Calvert, >> > > Have you seen this record? I just found it last week. The "sic" is part of > the record as recorded in Northern neck Warrants and Surveys. > > FRED 10/09/1752 NNWS- II-135 Robert Rutherford, assignee of Rebecca > Calvert & Ann Calvert Kinkiad (sic); no war(t), date from surv 9 Oct > 1752 - > 31 Dec. 1757; 400a on Red Bud Run, a br. Of Opeckon surv'd in 1732 (752a.) > for Jno Calvert who willed to 3 children. Rebecca & Ann have sold their > part; adj. Enoch Pearson, Isaac Hollingsworth, Great Waggon road, Rich'd > Calvert, Geo. Bruce. CC Edwd Griffith, Rich'd Abbet, Thos Spenser & Wm > Duckworth." > > ******************************* > > "John Calvert (John2, Thomas1) was born circa 1689 at Upper Providence > Township, now Delaware County, Pennsylvania (son of John Calvert and > Judith > Stamper). He moved to Orange County, Virginia in 1732 (became Frederick > County in 1743), with a group of Quakers who had secured land through > Alexander Ross. He is listed as one of the “Fathers of the Colony” (see > information on Hopewell Meeting). On November 12, 1735, the State of > Virginia granted John Calvert 850 acres of land beginning at two white > oaks > and a hickory near Abraham Hollingsworth’s line. (24) This land was > located > in what is now Frederick County, Virginia, east of the village of > Kernstown, > is a few miles southwest of the town of Winchester. John Calvert’s land of > 850 acres was located next to Abraham Hollingsworths on Red Bud Creek. > Abraham Hollingsworth house, “Abram’s Delight,” built 1754 is oldest house > in Winchester, Virginia, and now houses the Winchester/Frederick County > Historical Society. His home is said to have served as the first Quaker > Meeting house > > The will of John Calvert dated October 2, 1738; proved June 28, 1739; was > recorded in Orange County, Virginia (now Frederick County). (25) He called > himself of the Colony of Virginia, and county of Orange, and willed his > wife > Jane Calvert one-third of all his lands, during her life. To his sons > Robert > and Isaiah the remainer of land, 850 acres, whereupon John Stephens now > lives; to daughter Margaret, 300 acres of land called Hogg Run. To Rebecca > and Ann Calvert, 200 acres each. To son Richard Calvert [or Robert, two > transcriptions differ] the remainer of 992 acres at the death of his > mother. > To wife Jane Calvert my young mare 2 years old, with bald face, and the > old > mare. To son Robert Calvert the gray horse. To son Isaiah Calvert his > choice > of horses. To niece Elizabeth Carey or Cory, the brindle cow and calf. To > daughters Margery, Rebecca and Ann a mare each. Rest of the estate to the > children. Sons Robert and Isaiah Calvert executors. Witnesses, Terence > Notley and Henry Jones. > > "http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hutch/LAIRD/Calvert.htm > > > Barbara > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Liedtke > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > > The first panel (markers 1-12) has been returned from the lab. #198598 > matches the Group A AAV exactly at these markers. While this panel is not > a > good predictor because of so many matches to other surnames, the results > do > increase the probality that there isn't a DNA break in his paternal > Kincaid > line. The rest of the results for his 37 marker order are not due back > until > mid April but may start coming in anytime after the first. > > A vetting post to David/Winifred Hobson through their son Joseph/Rebecca > Calvert's son David/Mary Williams is nearing completion. A great deal > effort > is being made to gather every shred of evidence available to support the > lineage as it is so important to Virginia Kincaids. > > Note that the 2 other lines who believe descent from David/Winifred have > an > 11 at marker 4 (DYS > 391). Both lines are believed to come through David/Winifred's son > John/Elizabeth Logan. It may be that John was the first in this line with > the marker 4 mutation that plagues many of Group A's lines. > > Sue Liedtke > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We cleared security! I hit reply instead of forward when I answered Sue's post but now everyone knows Sue is a good gardener! Don Barbara Van Hout <[email protected]> wrote: >We all hope things go well and you will be back as planned. > >Barbara > >-----Original Message----- >From: Don W Kincaid >Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:05 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > >Good news so far. > >We fly to Rochester, MN early tomorrow and will be back 3/28 if all goes >well. We will have our computer with us but no files to speak of. Will try >to get taxes done while in the waiting room! > >We are going to be redoing our back yard here in Gilbert and your comment >about gardening is small spaces has given us some ideas to incorporate. > >Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sue Liedtke > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:00 PM > Subject: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 > > > The first panel (markers 1-12) has been returned from the lab. #198598 > matches the Group A AAV exactly at these markers. While this panel is not >a > good predictor because of so many matches to other surnames, the results >do > increase the probality that there isn't a DNA break in his paternal >Kincaid > line. The rest of the results for his 37 marker order are not due back >until > mid April but may start coming in anytime after the first. > > A vetting post to David/Winifred Hobson through their son Joseph/Rebecca > Calvert's son David/Mary Williams is nearing completion. A great deal >effort > is being made to gather every shred of evidence available to support the > lineage as it is so important to Virginia Kincaids. > > Note that the 2 other lines who believe descent from David/Winifred have >an > 11 at marker 4 (DYS > 391). Both lines are believed to come through David/Winifred's son > John/Elizabeth Logan. It may be that John was the first in this line with > the marker 4 mutation that plagues many of Group A's lines. > > Sue Liedtke > > > To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > > To join the DNA project, go to: > www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message >To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > >To join the DNA project, go to: >www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > >To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls > >To join the DNA project, go to: >www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I believe that Rebecca Calvert and her sister Ann were daughters of John Calvert of Frederick County, VA. This is a message from Dennis House in 2004: "<<Burroughs to Ann Calvert, >> Have you seen this record? I just found it last week. The "sic" is part of the record as recorded in Northern neck Warrants and Surveys. FRED 10/09/1752 NNWS- II-135 Robert Rutherford, assignee of Rebecca Calvert & Ann Calvert Kinkiad (sic); no war(t), date from surv 9 Oct 1752 - 31 Dec. 1757; 400a on Red Bud Run, a br. Of Opeckon surv'd in 1732 (752a.) for Jno Calvert who willed to 3 children. Rebecca & Ann have sold their part; adj. Enoch Pearson, Isaac Hollingsworth, Great Waggon road, Rich'd Calvert, Geo. Bruce. CC Edwd Griffith, Rich'd Abbet, Thos Spenser & Wm Duckworth." ******************************* "John Calvert (John2, Thomas1) was born circa 1689 at Upper Providence Township, now Delaware County, Pennsylvania (son of John Calvert and Judith Stamper). He moved to Orange County, Virginia in 1732 (became Frederick County in 1743), with a group of Quakers who had secured land through Alexander Ross. He is listed as one of the “Fathers of the Colony” (see information on Hopewell Meeting). On November 12, 1735, the State of Virginia granted John Calvert 850 acres of land beginning at two white oaks and a hickory near Abraham Hollingsworth’s line. (24) This land was located in what is now Frederick County, Virginia, east of the village of Kernstown, is a few miles southwest of the town of Winchester. John Calvert’s land of 850 acres was located next to Abraham Hollingsworths on Red Bud Creek. Abraham Hollingsworth house, “Abram’s Delight,” built 1754 is oldest house in Winchester, Virginia, and now houses the Winchester/Frederick County Historical Society. His home is said to have served as the first Quaker Meeting house The will of John Calvert dated October 2, 1738; proved June 28, 1739; was recorded in Orange County, Virginia (now Frederick County). (25) He called himself of the Colony of Virginia, and county of Orange, and willed his wife Jane Calvert one-third of all his lands, during her life. To his sons Robert and Isaiah the remainer of land, 850 acres, whereupon John Stephens now lives; to daughter Margaret, 300 acres of land called Hogg Run. To Rebecca and Ann Calvert, 200 acres each. To son Richard Calvert [or Robert, two transcriptions differ] the remainer of 992 acres at the death of his mother. To wife Jane Calvert my young mare 2 years old, with bald face, and the old mare. To son Robert Calvert the gray horse. To son Isaiah Calvert his choice of horses. To niece Elizabeth Carey or Cory, the brindle cow and calf. To daughters Margery, Rebecca and Ann a mare each. Rest of the estate to the children. Sons Robert and Isaiah Calvert executors. Witnesses, Terence Notley and Henry Jones. "http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hutch/LAIRD/Calvert.htm Barbara -----Original Message----- From: Sue Liedtke Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [KINCAID] DNA results #198598 The first panel (markers 1-12) has been returned from the lab. #198598 matches the Group A AAV exactly at these markers. While this panel is not a good predictor because of so many matches to other surnames, the results do increase the probality that there isn't a DNA break in his paternal Kincaid line. The rest of the results for his 37 marker order are not due back until mid April but may start coming in anytime after the first. A vetting post to David/Winifred Hobson through their son Joseph/Rebecca Calvert's son David/Mary Williams is nearing completion. A great deal effort is being made to gather every shred of evidence available to support the lineage as it is so important to Virginia Kincaids. Note that the 2 other lines who believe descent from David/Winifred have an 11 at marker 4 (DYS 391). Both lines are believed to come through David/Winifred's son John/Elizabeth Logan. It may be that John was the first in this line with the marker 4 mutation that plagues many of Group A's lines. Sue Liedtke To see the Kincaid of all spellings DNA chart in Excel: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~adgedge/Research/April%202004/Kincaid%20%20DNA.xls To join the DNA project, go to: www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Kincaid&Code=J21027 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message