Yes, Brethren Encyclopedia has Arthur Vance Kimmell in the ministerial lists and also gives him a full paragraph in the main part of the encyclopedia. In the ministerial lists BE has this: 'KIMMELL, ARTHUR VANCE (FGBC); 8-30-1880/5-27-1955; ord. 3-30-1902 at Dayton, OH (p. 1902-03); min. term., ca. 1950; Lordsburg (LaVerne) CA )p (1905 -08); Los Angeles CA, 1st (p. 1908-13; Whittier CA (p.1913-27); Los Angeles CA, 2d (p.1927-30); Philadelphia PA , 1st (p & eld 1930-50?); ..." [citations given are all Brethren denominational publications]. As to abbreviations used above, "p" stands for pastor. His ministry terminated about 1950. FGBC has to do with which branch of the Brethren this Kimmell was a minister in, and I don't find the list of abbreviations just yet. "eld" is elder. "min.term." means ministry terminated. However, in the main portion of BE on page 693 -694 Arthur Vance Kimmell is given his own entry, and it has some very good genealogical information in it: "Kimmell, Arthur Vance (BC, FGBC) 1880-1955, pastor. Born Aug. 30 near Pleasant Hill, OH, A V Kimmell was a grandson of Elias Teeter and a nephew of R R Teeter. He joined the Brethren Church in Dayton, OH, in 1898, and was ordained an elder there in 1902. Kimmell was pastor at Lordsburg (LaVerne) CA 1905-08, while studying at Lordsburg (LaVerne) College. Between 1908 and 1930 he was pastor of congregations he helped establish at Los Angeles (First Brethren 1908, Second Brethren 1910) and Whittier (1913), CA. In this way Kimmell as responsible for much of the early groowth of the Brethren Church in southern California.... He was pastor at the First Brethren Church, Philadelphia, 1930-ca1950. "Kimmell was moderator of General Conference (BC) in 1930. President of the Foreign Missionary Society Board for many years, he also edited the Brethren Missionary 1923-29. He was president of the Grace Seminary board from its inception as the Brethren Biblical Seminary Assn in 1937. Kimmell resigned as pastor at Philadelphia..... He died May 27 in Philadelphia. " Citations are mostly Brethren Church denominational stuff, but R L Howe's History of a Church (1943) is also mentioned. BC stands for Brethren Church. FGBC presumably is the Grace Brethren branch. (Brethren have had lots of splits.) Happy hunting.

Is there any further information on Arthur Vance Kimmell? He was my grandfather. Thanks. Bob Kimmell At 07:59 PM 10/1/00 EDT, you wrote: >I will be happy to check the ministerial lists to see what kind of >biographical information Brethren Encyclopedia gives on any Dunkard >(Brethren) pastor. >Of course, you know that many Dunkard ministers and their families tell jokes >on the topic of Dunkard ministers. When one old man said that his father >had been a Dunkard pastor, supposedly the response he received was something >like: "Well, so was my old man, but he finally found AA...." > >As to the Kimmels listed they are: > >Kimmel, Charles E 1884-1956 >Kimmel (Kimmell), David 1826-1897 (MINE!) >Kimmel, Harvey H, 1862-1953 >Kimmel, Homer D 1914 [-1999] >Kimmel, J T (no dates, but was address for Mishler OH in 1894.) >Kimmel, John A 1831-1898. >Kimmel, John M (1866-1958) >Kimmel, Joseph L 1856-1931 >Kimmel, Josiah R 1826-1897 >Kimmel, Josiah Regal, 1851-1917 >Kimmel, Lewis, 1836-1907 >Kimmel, Michael (1881 addr for Lanark IL) >Kimmel, Milton L, 1886-1965 >Kimmel, Myers P c1920 - >Kimmel, Theodor Acroyd 1929-1965 >Kimmell, Arthur Vance, 1880-1955. > >If anybody wants additional info on any of these folks, I will happily put >the cat out and then pass on what it says about any of the above. > >As to other Kimmels in the Brethren Encyclopedia "Lists" volume, there are >two amongst the authors: > >Kimmel, Jo 1931- "Steps to Prayer Power." Nashville TN, Abingdon Press. >"Stop Playing Pious Games, " Nashville TN, Abingdon Press 1974. 126 pp. > >Kimmel, John M. 1866-1958. "Chronicles of the Brethren, Comprising a Concise >History of the Brethren or Dunker Church from Its Organization in Europe in >AD 1708 to Its Separation in America in AD 1881 and the Subsequent History of >the OId German Baptist Church to and Including the Years AD 1900. Covington >OH, for the author by the Little Printing Co. 1951. 324 pp. reprinted by >Economy Printing Concern Inc. 1972. > >I know who John M. Kimmel was and how he fits into the family. He also >edited THE VINDICATOR and Old Order Brethren periodical. I don't know who >Jo Kimmel is, but her name appears as a citation re Theodore A. Kimmel, and >she may be the same person as Joan Stuckey Kimmel, his wife. > >John M. Kimmel has his own Brethren Encyclopedia entry on page 693, in >addition to appearing in the Lists volume. There are also individual entries >for Joseph L. Kimmel (page 693) and Lewis Kimmel (p 693), as well as Theodor >Acroyd Kimmel, same page. Also for Arthur Vance Kimmell (pp693-694). The >entry for Kimmel Family on page 693 is fairly brief, but a photo of an old >Kimmel farmhouse is on p 694. > > "Kimmel Family. The father of the American Kimmels is believed to be >Johann Michael Kimmel (1661-1734). A group of Kimmels arrived in >Philadelphia in 1751 on the St. Andrew, from Rotterdam via Cowes, England. >Their descendants spread out to W. Pennsylvania, Maryland, Ohio, Indiana, >Illinois, and Kansas, for the most part. Some members of the family joined >the Ephrata Community in the 18th century. This family has produced dozens >of ministers and educators. Lewis Kimmel was one of the first Brethren >ministers to attain college degrees; in 1874 he organized the Plum Creek >Normal School. J M Kimmel edited THE VINDICATOR and compiled the CHRONICLES >OF THE BRETHREN. Theodore A. Kimmel died in an airplane accident in >Madagascar 91965) while serving as a relief administrator. Kimmel family >members have been prominent in several Brethren denominations. GFB" > >Citations include (yes, of course) Austin Cooper's Brothersvalley book; R B >Strassburger and W J Hinke, eds., PIONEERS (1934) 1:457; COLONIAL AMERICA >(1967) index; W. PENNSYLVANIA (1916); KANSAS (1922). > >Happy Sunday evening. > >Jan T > > > > >

Tim, Concerning Cooper's book "Two Centuries of Brothersvalley" you wrote - > If there are no records before 1769 for Stonycreek Church, how did > Cooper determine all of the ordinations in that congregation in > 1764-1766? I can only find evidence of one of the original families > being in Stonycreek by 1762 in his book. There appears to be a lot of > counterdictions. Am I missing something? I have copies of just portions of the book, but on page 184 there is a description of the STONYCREEK (1770 Organization). This is what you have transcribed in your note on the Stonycreek Congregation. http://www2.fwi.com/~tkimmel/Spec-Stonycreek.htm What I think you missed is the statement in the opening paragraph of Cooper's book, Chapter X (page 184). (Or at least it's significance.) I quote: "The Stony Creek Church is the mother-church to the Brothersvalley Church today. One can only understand the background of the church and area as we look at the early beginnings. A professor of Church History of the Baptist College and Seminary in Philadelphia prepared a manuscript on the history of all Baptist in America in that early day. We quote directly from it in the following." If Cooper had cited his source more accurately, you wouldn't have missed it. The professor is Morgan Edwards 1722-1795. His book (works) is titled "Materials towards a history of the American Baptists" in XII volumes. That explains Cooper's rather ambiguous comment "in that early day". I must confess that though I've seen the an original of an early edition, I didn't write down the publisher or publication date. The book is catalogued at the New York City Public Library as *KD1770 which may be the publication year. I know it is very old, as I saw it in the Rare Books section of the library! At any rate, most of page 89 in the first volume is what is transcribed on p.184 of Cooper and photocopied on p.186. Under the photocopy is the reference to the book and the note: 1770 Stony Creek Church Records. What I can't prove, but feel strongly is the case, is that what Morgan Edwards has in his book is a first hand account that he obtained from someone in the Stonycreek Congregation at the time of his survey. This must have been in 1770 or soon thereafter, since if it were later the account would have included more recent things! As for additional information such as the ordinations which occur elsewhere in Cooper, I assume they came from a variety of sources, such things probably survived in various church meeting notes, oral history, and etc. For example, the name Lodowick Hecker (mentioned elsewhere as Philip's instructor) also is mentioned by Edwards in the section on Ephrata, beginning page 76. In my own case, I happened on the Morgan Edwards citation somewhere other than in Cooper. I think it was in the Encyclopedia Britannica! It was one of my earliest "finds", since till that time I had only the portion of Dr. Stoner's works which survived in our wing of the family. Enough for Morgan Edwards. In my dad's notes is an abstract of a land warrent to Philip Kimmel. "159-3/4 acres. Sur: May 2, 1774. War: June 23, 1769 (one of the first warrrants after opening of land office in 1760)". Not noted is where this land is. If at Stonycreek (Somerset Co PA) the original should be on file in Bedford County which included Somerset at this time. This would get us closer to establishing Philip's presence in Somerset Co before 1770. There are other books covering history of the German Baptist Brethren or Tunkers as they were referred to by Edwards, including a history of Ephrata originally published in German in 1786. Can give more pointers if you're interested in pursuing this direction. M. Jay Kimmel

I had (or have) a great grandfather who was a Dunkard Mimister - - - Bill KTompk7744@aol.com wrote: > Tim, I looked in Brethren Encyclopedia and didn't find any clarification > under STONY CREEK BRETHREN CHURCH, PA: > > "Stony Creek brethren Church, PA, located in Somerset Co. It emerged > from a german Baptist brethren congregation organized on Nov 13 1880. J L > Kimmel and A J Miller were elected to the ministry at the meeting; they were > ordained elders in Sept 1881. H R Holsinger was chosen as presiding elder; > he was followed by Alvin Cober, J L Kimmel, A J Miller, S W Wilt, Silas > Hoover, J H Knepper, B C Moomaw, J D McFaden, M C Meyers, and J L Bowman. > In March, 1881, the congregation decided to mvoe its meetinghouse, the Kimmel > House, two miles away to a site on the Stoystown Pike; there they enlarged > it. The meetinghouse was then called the DOWNEY CHURCH or HOME CHURCH. > Mosts of the members and officials of the Stony Creek congregation joined the > Progressive Brethren movement in 1881. Those members wishing to stay with > the German Baptist Brethren were reincorporated into the parent (Brotherton) > Brothersvalley congregation. Stony Creek (Downey) was last listed on > brethren Church rosters in 1911." > > Citations: H R Holsinger, Tunkers, (1901) 632-33; W. Pennsylvania )1016) > 189-90, (1953) 180, 182-83; H. A. Cooper, Brothersvalley (1962) 300-307; > Annual (BC) (1890, 1905-11); H. F Welfley, History of Somerset Co. (1906) > 2:500. > > Since this is a later time period, I'll have to check some of the earlier > names to see what they say. Of course, Austin Cooper is likely to be one of > the references given. > > Jan T

Thanks - It was good hearing from you - - - - Bill KTompk7744@aol.com wrote: > I checked Brethren Encyclopedia for the earlier name for the congregation > near Stonycreek. Here's what it says: > > "Brotherton, PA< Brothersvalley Church of the Brethren. The first Brethren > reached the Glades, or Brudersthal, area in what became Somerset Co. ca. > 1770. Seventeen members under the leadershipi of Elder George Adam Martin > were organized as the Stony Creek congregation in 1770. Martin and several > others in the group had close ties with the Ephrata Community. Members met > in barns and homes, some of which, such as the Heinrich Roth (Rhoades) house, > were constructed to accommodate meetings for worship. Some of the Stony > Creek members maintain German Seventh Day Baptist sympathies for a time. > Elders succeeding Martin included Michael Meyers, Peter Cober (1776-1854) and > John Forney Sr. (1777-1846). > > "The STony Creek congregation built a number of meetinghouses and also used > schoolhouses for places for meeting. The Pleasant Grove house, built in > 1845, was a love feast house. The 1849 Annual Meeting held there divided > Stony Creek into the Queamoahoning (Maple Spring)< Middle Creek, Elk Lick > (Salisbury) and Berlin congregations. In turn, the Berlin congregation was > divided om 199- omtp tje Ner;om. Sp,ersey Cpimtu. Nrptjersva;;eu amd Sypmu > Creel cpmhrehatopms/ Yje Sp,ersey Cpimtu cpmhrehtopm ,erhed wotj > Nrptjersva;;eu om 1993. amd tje Sypmu Creel cpmhrehatopm dod tje sa,e om > 1990/ Heprhe Scjrpcl )1816-94) and William Sevits )1812-89) were elders at > brothersvalley....." > > Citations include Cooper's Brothersvalley book; also W Pennsylvania (1916) > 57-65 , (1953) 166-92; H. Miller, Record, (1882) 13; Gospel Messenger Nov > 24 1962. p21'; Colonial America 1967. 185; ... Old Home Week, Berlin PA > (1908); W H Welfley, "Berlin & brothersvalley" PG 10 (Oct 1909) 506-09, and > History of Somerset Co. PA (1906) 2:48, 49, 118, 496-99. > > Interestingly enough, when I checked the ministerial lists volume in Brethren > Encyclopedia, while there are a fair number of Kimmels listed, including John > M. Kimmel and David Kimmel, Philip Kimmel's name does not appear. Often > the names were simply gleaned from existing records, so some were bound to be > missed, but the only source I'm aware of for Philip's being a minister is > Cooper. > Hmmm. Apparently something happened as a result of his part in the > Whiskey Rebellion, but Cooper doesn't make it clear. I think the "training" > he took was supposed to have been simply a Bible study class or something > similar but don't recall where Cooper says it was. I could look that up. > > Sorry not to have found anything more helpful. I have to leave in a few > minutes to go give keys to a new tenant who has transferred here from Kansas > City. We finished installing blinds there after church so the family can > move in. > > Happy Sunday.

I will be happy to check the ministerial lists to see what kind of biographical information Brethren Encyclopedia gives on any Dunkard (Brethren) pastor. Of course, you know that many Dunkard ministers and their families tell jokes on the topic of Dunkard ministers. When one old man said that his father had been a Dunkard pastor, supposedly the response he received was something like: "Well, so was my old man, but he finally found AA...." As to the Kimmels listed they are: Kimmel, Charles E 1884-1956 Kimmel (Kimmell), David 1826-1897 (MINE!) Kimmel, Harvey H, 1862-1953 Kimmel, Homer D 1914 [-1999] Kimmel, J T (no dates, but was address for Mishler OH in 1894.) Kimmel, John A 1831-1898. Kimmel, John M (1866-1958) Kimmel, Joseph L 1856-1931 Kimmel, Josiah R 1826-1897 Kimmel, Josiah Regal, 1851-1917 Kimmel, Lewis, 1836-1907 Kimmel, Michael (1881 addr for Lanark IL) Kimmel, Milton L, 1886-1965 Kimmel, Myers P c1920 - Kimmel, Theodor Acroyd 1929-1965 Kimmell, Arthur Vance, 1880-1955. If anybody wants additional info on any of these folks, I will happily put the cat out and then pass on what it says about any of the above. As to other Kimmels in the Brethren Encyclopedia "Lists" volume, there are two amongst the authors: Kimmel, Jo 1931- "Steps to Prayer Power." Nashville TN, Abingdon Press. "Stop Playing Pious Games, " Nashville TN, Abingdon Press 1974. 126 pp. Kimmel, John M. 1866-1958. "Chronicles of the Brethren, Comprising a Concise History of the Brethren or Dunker Church from Its Organization in Europe in AD 1708 to Its Separation in America in AD 1881 and the Subsequent History of the OId German Baptist Church to and Including the Years AD 1900. Covington OH, for the author by the Little Printing Co. 1951. 324 pp. reprinted by Economy Printing Concern Inc. 1972. I know who John M. Kimmel was and how he fits into the family. He also edited THE VINDICATOR and Old Order Brethren periodical. I don't know who Jo Kimmel is, but her name appears as a citation re Theodore A. Kimmel, and she may be the same person as Joan Stuckey Kimmel, his wife. John M. Kimmel has his own Brethren Encyclopedia entry on page 693, in addition to appearing in the Lists volume. There are also individual entries for Joseph L. Kimmel (page 693) and Lewis Kimmel (p 693), as well as Theodor Acroyd Kimmel, same page. Also for Arthur Vance Kimmell (pp693-694). The entry for Kimmel Family on page 693 is fairly brief, but a photo of an old Kimmel farmhouse is on p 694. "Kimmel Family. The father of the American Kimmels is believed to be Johann Michael Kimmel (1661-1734). A group of Kimmels arrived in Philadelphia in 1751 on the St. Andrew, from Rotterdam via Cowes, England. Their descendants spread out to W. Pennsylvania, Maryland, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Kansas, for the most part. Some members of the family joined the Ephrata Community in the 18th century. This family has produced dozens of ministers and educators. Lewis Kimmel was one of the first Brethren ministers to attain college degrees; in 1874 he organized the Plum Creek Normal School. J M Kimmel edited THE VINDICATOR and compiled the CHRONICLES OF THE BRETHREN. Theodore A. Kimmel died in an airplane accident in Madagascar 91965) while serving as a relief administrator. Kimmel family members have been prominent in several Brethren denominations. GFB" Citations include (yes, of course) Austin Cooper's Brothersvalley book; R B Strassburger and W J Hinke, eds., PIONEERS (1934) 1:457; COLONIAL AMERICA (1967) index; W. PENNSYLVANIA (1916); KANSAS (1922). Happy Sunday evening. Jan T

I see I sent a paragraph of Greek when I thought my fingers were on the right keys but weren't. My cat was helping me by pacing back and forth between me and the screen because her catfood was "dusty," having been exposed to the air for more than 15 minutes, and she wanted me to hurry up and earn my keep. I'll look back at BE and see what it REALLY said in those paragraphs about dividing.... Jan T

--part1_a4.a1fb71e.270922a2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Emmert Bittinger is a well established Brethren historian, and here is his response. However, I don't think it clarifies anything for me. Jan T --part1_a4.a1fb71e.270922a2_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <BRETHREN-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:01:55 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.123]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:01:12 -0400 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id e91Kxmu18817; Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:59:48 -0700 Resent-Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:59:48 -0700 X-Original-Sender: ebitting@bridgewater.edu Sun Oct 1 13:59:48 2000 Message-ID: <39D7A520.B61E22B5@bridgewater.edu> Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 16:57:05 -0400 From: Emmert Bittinger <ebitting@bridgewater.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Old-To: BRETHREN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: Two Centuries of Brothersvalley & query References: <74.37eeaa5.2708ccaf@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Resent-Message-ID: <1fThSC.A.1lE.EX615@lists5.rootsweb.com> To: BRETHREN-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: BRETHREN-L@rootsweb.com Reply-To: BRETHREN-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <BRETHREN-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/16042 X-Loop: BRETHREN-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: BRETHREN-L-request@rootsweb.com Reply from Bittinger: There is contradictory information about Philip Kimmel. 1) the Hist. of Bedford and Somerset Counties by Koontz (1906) in describing Kimmel families in Somerset Co., states that Philip Kimmel settled near New Market in Frederick Co., Md. where he died (p. 32). On the other hand, Baptist Historian Morgan Edwards states that Stoney Creek Brethren Settlement was founded in 1762 when G. A. Martin brought a group of Seventh Day Baptists (Ephrataites) to Stoney Creek. He provides a list of the people that came. It includes Philip Kimmel who had married a daughter of early Brethren pioneer William Knepper. This list of Colonial Brethren congregations has often been reprinted, and can be found in Durnbaugh, Brethren in the Colonial Period, p. 185. Emmert Bittinger ==== BRETHREN Mailing List ==== 6 ----------------------------------------------- This is the Brethren Genealogy and History Network we are sponsored by The Fellowship Of Brethren Genealogists You are invited to join the membership of FOBG For further information e-mail McAdams@udayton.edu ---------------------- --part1_a4.a1fb71e.270922a2_boundary--

I checked Brethren Encyclopedia for the earlier name for the congregation near Stonycreek. Here's what it says: "Brotherton, PA< Brothersvalley Church of the Brethren. The first Brethren reached the Glades, or Brudersthal, area in what became Somerset Co. ca. 1770. Seventeen members under the leadershipi of Elder George Adam Martin were organized as the Stony Creek congregation in 1770. Martin and several others in the group had close ties with the Ephrata Community. Members met in barns and homes, some of which, such as the Heinrich Roth (Rhoades) house, were constructed to accommodate meetings for worship. Some of the Stony Creek members maintain German Seventh Day Baptist sympathies for a time. Elders succeeding Martin included Michael Meyers, Peter Cober (1776-1854) and John Forney Sr. (1777-1846). "The STony Creek congregation built a number of meetinghouses and also used schoolhouses for places for meeting. The Pleasant Grove house, built in 1845, was a love feast house. The 1849 Annual Meeting held there divided Stony Creek into the Queamoahoning (Maple Spring)< Middle Creek, Elk Lick (Salisbury) and Berlin congregations. In turn, the Berlin congregation was divided om 199- omtp tje Ner;om. Sp,ersey Cpimtu. Nrptjersva;;eu amd Sypmu Creel cpmhrehatopms/ Yje Sp,ersey Cpimtu cpmhrehtopm ,erhed wotj Nrptjersva;;eu om 1993. amd tje Sypmu Creel cpmhrehatopm dod tje sa,e om 1990/ Heprhe Scjrpcl )1816-94) and William Sevits )1812-89) were elders at brothersvalley....." Citations include Cooper's Brothersvalley book; also W Pennsylvania (1916) 57-65 , (1953) 166-92; H. Miller, Record, (1882) 13; Gospel Messenger Nov 24 1962. p21'; Colonial America 1967. 185; ... Old Home Week, Berlin PA (1908); W H Welfley, "Berlin & brothersvalley" PG 10 (Oct 1909) 506-09, and History of Somerset Co. PA (1906) 2:48, 49, 118, 496-99. Interestingly enough, when I checked the ministerial lists volume in Brethren Encyclopedia, while there are a fair number of Kimmels listed, including John M. Kimmel and David Kimmel, Philip Kimmel's name does not appear. Often the names were simply gleaned from existing records, so some were bound to be missed, but the only source I'm aware of for Philip's being a minister is Cooper. Hmmm. Apparently something happened as a result of his part in the Whiskey Rebellion, but Cooper doesn't make it clear. I think the "training" he took was supposed to have been simply a Bible study class or something similar but don't recall where Cooper says it was. I could look that up. Sorry not to have found anything more helpful. I have to leave in a few minutes to go give keys to a new tenant who has transferred here from Kansas City. We finished installing blinds there after church so the family can move in. Happy Sunday.

Tim, I looked in Brethren Encyclopedia and didn't find any clarification under STONY CREEK BRETHREN CHURCH, PA: "Stony Creek brethren Church, PA, located in Somerset Co. It emerged from a german Baptist brethren congregation organized on Nov 13 1880. J L Kimmel and A J Miller were elected to the ministry at the meeting; they were ordained elders in Sept 1881. H R Holsinger was chosen as presiding elder; he was followed by Alvin Cober, J L Kimmel, A J Miller, S W Wilt, Silas Hoover, J H Knepper, B C Moomaw, J D McFaden, M C Meyers, and J L Bowman. In March, 1881, the congregation decided to mvoe its meetinghouse, the Kimmel House, two miles away to a site on the Stoystown Pike; there they enlarged it. The meetinghouse was then called the DOWNEY CHURCH or HOME CHURCH. Mosts of the members and officials of the Stony Creek congregation joined the Progressive Brethren movement in 1881. Those members wishing to stay with the German Baptist Brethren were reincorporated into the parent (Brotherton) Brothersvalley congregation. Stony Creek (Downey) was last listed on brethren Church rosters in 1911." Citations: H R Holsinger, Tunkers, (1901) 632-33; W. Pennsylvania )1016) 189-90, (1953) 180, 182-83; H. A. Cooper, Brothersvalley (1962) 300-307; Annual (BC) (1890, 1905-11); H. F Welfley, History of Somerset Co. (1906) 2:500. Since this is a later time period, I'll have to check some of the earlier names to see what they say. Of course, Austin Cooper is likely to be one of the references given. Jan T

I finally got around to getting a personal copy of H. Austin Cooper's "Two Centuries of Brothersvalley Church of the Brethren" to learn exactly what Philip Kimmel's involvement was in the Church of the Brethren. The book leaves me more puzzled each time I read it. In it, Cooper claims Philip Kimmel trained in Germantown, moved to Ephrata and then to Antrim Township. I can't find evidence of him being in any of these places -- in the book or elsewhere. He has Philip and other members of the Stonycreek congregation all being there by 1762 and yet Philip Kimmel is still living in Reading Township, York County in 1765 and other members are on the Antrim Township tax rolls. If there are no records before 1769 for Stonycreek Church, how did Cooper determine all of the ordinations in that congregation in 1764-1766? I can only find evidence of one of the original families being in Stonycreek by 1762 in his book. There appears to be a lot of counterdictions. Am I missing something? I've posted a list of events by date from the book at http://www2.fwi.com/~tkimmel/Spec-Stonycreek.htm . I'd like some help in determining when Stonycreek Church was organized (Cooper says 1762, but to me it appears to be around 1770), and figuring out when and where Philip Kimmel and Elder Martin lived in the 1760s. --Tim Kimmel ==============

I'm so glad to hear that it means fearless warrior. My first name means that in Teutonic, but I had thought it meant artificial earth satellite. So I am fearless warrior, fearless warrior -- but I wish I were young whenI

I

Thanks, Pamela... Kimmelweck makes sense: Kimmel (older form is Kümmel) is the German word for caraway. Weck is the German word for roll -- particularly a breakfast roll. A lot of foods like Kimmelkäse (cheese) or Kimmelbrot (bread) or drinks called Kimmel or Kummel simply mean they have caraway seeds or caraway extract in them. (Kimmel Bier may be an exception, if it is truly a brand name beer.) A lot of heraldry businesses say the name Kimmel means "one who harvests caraway plants" or some similar meaning. I doubt they really did any research. If it were true, the name would be Kimmelbauer or Kimmelpächter or, at the very least, Kimmler. The German word books I've gotten hold of say the name Kimmel and the word Kimmel evolved separately. It's only coincidence that at some point they became spelled the same way. The surname Kimmel means, roughly, "a brave and bold warrior." See the URL that Pamela suggested. --Tim Kimmel in Fort Wayne ===================== PamChowdr2@aol.com wrote: > I'm sure Tim will show up one of these days to discuss the origin and meaning > of "Kimmel", but until he does, here'e the link to his webpage that has his > "treatise" on the Kimmel name: > > For us AOL folks: <A HREF="http://www2.fwi.com/~tkimmel/Meaning.htm">Kimmel > Family Record -- Meaning of Name Kimmel</A> > > For the non-AOL folks: http://www2.fwi.com/~tkimmel/Meaning.htm > > (Same website. Just a different route to get there <g>). > > ~ Pamela (Kimmel) Westfall

I'm sure Tim will show up one of these days to discuss the origin and meaning of "Kimmel", but until he does, here'e the link to his webpage that has his "treatise" on the Kimmel name: For us AOL folks: <A HREF="http://www2.fwi.com/~tkimmel/Meaning.htm">Kimmel Family Record -- Meaning of Name Kimmel</A> For the non-AOL folks: http://www2.fwi.com/~tkimmel/Meaning.htm (Same website. Just a different route to get there <g>). ~ Pamela (Kimmel) Westfall

Thanks Dave. That was interesting.

I thought the name meant "seller of spices".

At 05:05 AM 9/13/00 EDT, you wrote: >Hi everyone. I was in Corning, NY last weekend and had lunch in a local >restaurant. On the menu, to my surprise, was Au Jus Beef on a Kimmelwick bun. >I asked the waiter if he knew what a Kimmelwick bun was but he didn't. >Needless to say, I ordered it. It was smaller than a kaiser roll and had >caraway seeds on it. Anyone out there every hear of it before? > I've never written to this group, but I'm a devoted lurker. In the Buffalo area, a famous bar food is wings and weck, which means buffalo wings (most people have heard of them) and beef-on-weck sandwiches. The bun is called Kimmelweck, from the German word for caraway seeds, Kummel. The word is often written Kimmelweck in that area, and I've seen those buns so advertised in stores there. Incidently, in Ohio there is a chain of restaurants called BW-3, which stands for Buffalo Wild Wings and Weck, so we're famous at least indirectly. I have to confess that I've never eaten the Weck at BW-3, 'cause I really don't care for a salt-and-carraway bun. Dave ____________________________________________ David Kimmel Assistant Professor of English Coordinator of Writing Across the Curriculum Heidelberg College ____________________________________________ Time flies when you're being stupid. Hwang, _M. Butterfly_

You probably know this, but Kimmel means those who love and grow caraway seeds in old German. There is even a caraway liqueur called Kumel (with dots, over the u I think).

Hi everyone. I was in Corning, NY last weekend and had lunch in a local restaurant. On the menu, to my surprise, was Au Jus Beef on a Kimmelwick bun. I asked the waiter if he knew what a Kimmelwick bun was but he didn't. Needless to say, I ordered it. It was smaller than a kaiser roll and had caraway seeds on it. Anyone out there every hear of it before?