Ramble on Vickie, I love all these stories. The story I read was "kill and gone" was Kilgore in gailec(Irish). Can anyone conform the translation? See if you can find The first Kilgore in Ireland? The Black Douglas was not necessarily a person but a linage. There were also the Red Douglas's James the 9th earl of Douglas was supposedly the last Black Douglas. The next Earl was a red Douglas It gets so confusing. The 5 great-grandsons of Lord Douglas Kilgore (1650-1720) of Scotland fought in the Rev. War. Hiram was killed in the war. Cousin Bob Charles R. (Bob) Shaw 2425 Sherwin Dr. Twinsburg Ohio 44087 fax 330 963 6858 cell 330 247 8543 phone 330 425 8819 [email protected] [email protected] www.engineeredspecialproducts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vickie Miller" <[email protected]> To: "Kilgore" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas > Recently the Douglas question has been raised again regarding the Kilgore > family. To refresh the memories of those who may not be acquainted with > this question, early Kilgore researchers made the assertion published in > 1935 in the book "Charles Kilgore of King's Mountain" by Hugh Addington > that the Kilgores were descended from Lord Douglas of Scotland-the > so-called "Black Douglas" which meant that the Kilgore name had originally > been Douglas. If you look up the name in the Scottish registry of names > you'll find this info: The earliest written record of the Kilgore name is > this entry: John Kilgour's wife, Janet December 14, 1690, had a child > baptized named Mar---Witnesses: Tom Pierce, George Tasker & etal From > (Baptisms of November-December 1690 for the earliest Coupar Angus Parish > Register. Reproduced by courtesy of the Church of Scotland) also > included in the book Thomas Kilgore 1712-1822 and his Descendants" by > Evelyn Yates Carpenter. The enrtry also states that th! > e first known use of the name Kilgore was in connection to a child found > on a doorstep of a church and given the NAME of the Church and that local > tradition claimed that the child was a junior member of the local powerful > Douglas family who'd been recently outlawed and that the child (presumedly > male) was left behind to protect it as 'such things were known to happen.' > NOTE: the Historical society makes no claim as to the validity of local > tradition-merely includes it in their info. > This is the same information that Judge G. W. Kilgore received when he > also wrote the Scottish Historical Society inquiring about the origin of > the Kilgore name. Since there might have been validity to the local > tradition, Jerry Penley (who is now sadly deceased and who was the founder > of the Kilgore list on Rootsweb) made a point of pursuing this matter. > Jerry Penley was an outstanding and thorough researcher as any of those > who ever had the privelege of working with him can attest. He made > contact with Douglas researchers whose research he found to be sound. The > response was that all members of the Douglas family were accounted for and > their lines can be traced which means that our little foundling was NOT a > legitimate member of the Douglas family and also explains why our new > member Bob Shaw has been unable to make a connection to the Douglas > family-it doesn't exist. It's entirely possible that the child was born > out of wedlock to a member of the Douglas family and ! > left on the doorstep; but he was not a legitimate scion of the family. > Jerry's findings can be found by searching the Kilgore list archives > at:http://boards.rootsweb.com/surname.aspx. Type in the name Kilgore and > it should take you to the list. The entries should be found around > 1995-1996. Sorry, I'm not more specific than that-but I'm still on pokey > old dial-up because of our location and am just not inclined to search > through the Archives. If anyone wishes to find them-type in the word > Douglas and sooner or later, Jerry's info he obtained from the Douglas > researchers should be found. As to the assertions by early Kilgore > researchers, it seems they took "local tradition" one step further and > made it fact. Jerry Penley later took that "fact" and made it an unproven > assertion. It should be noted that there is absolutely no proof that the > foundling child was in fact the ancestor of the Kilgores of America. > Note: that the Historical society included only the fir! > st known instance of the name-it doesn't list any possible subsequent > findings of the name (nor did it give a location of the church). > Considering that Kilgore wasn't a preeminent name in Scotland -such as > Stuart, Hamilton etc; it may be that researchers simply didn't look all > that hard into the origin of the name Kilgore. > > While we're on the subject of early assertions made by Kilgore > researchers, we might as well tackle the "Kill" and "Gore" question. > Judge G. W. Kilgore claimed that the name Kilgore was derived from the > habit of the "Black Douglas" to scream the words Kill and Gore at his > enemies in the heat of battle. Note that the historical society claimed > that the child (if indeed he was our ancestor) was given the name of the > church. Note too-that the Black Douglas would almost certainly have been > screaming his war cry in Scottish Gaelic-not the King's English. So I > wouldn't place much faith in this origin story either. > > More to follow in later messages. Apparently I rambled too much and > there's a size limit these days-so I'm breaking my rambling up. > > Vickie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ok all, You all peaked my interest. So I had to open two of my favorite books to see if there was an answer. The Surnames of Ireland by Edward MacLysaght says; (Mac) Kilgore; the Irish form of the name of this North-west Ulster family is probably Mac Giolla Ghearirr, as Kilgar. Woulfe suggests Mac Giolla Ghairbh (garbh, rough) hence Kilgarraf also, which is conjectural. He gives this conjecturally also for Kilcourse. Since there was a question as to what KIll and Gore would be in the Irish here they are. The Irish-English Dictionary by Geddes and Gosset; Kill; maraigh Gore; saigh These definitions do not add a lot of credence to Kill and Gore being the battle cry and name. Not a lot of help but the name does seem to be of Scottish derivation as are a lot of Ulster names. The hard "G" in the Irish has a "K" sound. I would love to see if anyone else has a dictionary that would give a different definition, or a Scottish dictionary of surnames of language. Ron Myatt > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected]> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:06:59 -0400> Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas> > Ramble on Vickie, I love all these stories.> The story I read was "kill and gone" was Kilgore in gailec(Irish). Can > anyone conform the translation?> See if you can find The first Kilgore in Ireland?> The Black Douglas was not necessarily a person but a linage. There were > also the Red Douglas's> James the 9th earl of Douglas was supposedly the last Black Douglas. The > next Earl was a red Douglas> It gets so confusing.> The 5 great-grandsons of Lord Douglas Kilgore (1650-1720) of Scotland fought > in the Rev. War.> Hiram was killed in the war.> Cousin Bob> > Charles R. (Bob) Shaw> 2425 Sherwin Dr.> Twinsburg Ohio 44087> fax 330 963 6858> cell 330 247 8543> phone 330 425 8819> [email protected]> [email protected]> www.engineeredspecialproducts.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vickie Miller" <[email protected]>> To: "Kilgore" <[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 11:26 AM> Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas> > > > Recently the Douglas question has been raised again regarding the Kilgore > > family. To refresh the memories of those who may not be acquainted with > > this question, early Kilgore researchers made the assertion published in > > 1935 in the book "Charles Kilgore of King's Mountain" by Hugh Addington > > that the Kilgores were descended from Lord Douglas of Scotland-the > > so-called "Black Douglas" which meant that the Kilgore name had originally > > been Douglas. If you look up the name in the Scottish registry of names > > you'll find this info: The earliest written record of the Kilgore name is > > this entry: John Kilgour's wife, Janet December 14, 1690, had a child > > baptized named Mar---Witnesses: Tom Pierce, George Tasker & etal From > > (Baptisms of November-December 1690 for the earliest Coupar Angus Parish > > Register. Reproduced by courtesy of the Church of Scotland) also > > included in the book Thomas Kilgore 1712-1822 and his Descendants" by > > Evelyn Yates Carpenter. The enrtry also states that th!> > e first known use of the name Kilgore was in connection to a child found > > on a doorstep of a church and given the NAME of the Church and that local > > tradition claimed that the child was a junior member of the local powerful > > Douglas family who'd been recently outlawed and that the child (presumedly > > male) was left behind to protect it as 'such things were known to happen.' > > NOTE: the Historical society makes no claim as to the validity of local > > tradition-merely includes it in their info.> > This is the same information that Judge G. W. Kilgore received when he > > also wrote the Scottish Historical Society inquiring about the origin of > > the Kilgore name. Since there might have been validity to the local > > tradition, Jerry Penley (who is now sadly deceased and who was the founder > > of the Kilgore list on Rootsweb) made a point of pursuing this matter. > > Jerry Penley was an outstanding and thorough researcher as any of those > > who ever had the privelege of working with him can attest. He made > > contact with Douglas researchers whose research he found to be sound. The > > response was that all members of the Douglas family were accounted for and > > their lines can be traced which means that our little foundling was NOT a > > legitimate member of the Douglas family and also explains why our new > > member Bob Shaw has been unable to make a connection to the Douglas > > family-it doesn't exist. It's entirely possible that the child was born > > out of wedlock to a member of the Douglas family and !> > left on the doorstep; but he was not a legitimate scion of the family. > > Jerry's findings can be found by searching the Kilgore list archives > > at:http://boards.rootsweb.com/surname.aspx. Type in the name Kilgore and > > it should take you to the list. The entries should be found around > > 1995-1996. Sorry, I'm not more specific than that-but I'm still on pokey > > old dial-up because of our location and am just not inclined to search > > through the Archives. If anyone wishes to find them-type in the word > > Douglas and sooner or later, Jerry's info he obtained from the Douglas > > researchers should be found. As to the assertions by early Kilgore > > researchers, it seems they took "local tradition" one step further and > > made it fact. Jerry Penley later took that "fact" and made it an unproven > > assertion. It should be noted that there is absolutely no proof that the > > foundling child was in fact the ancestor of the Kilgores of America. > > Note: that the Historical society included only the fir!> > st known instance of the name-it doesn't list any possible subsequent> > findings of the name (nor did it give a location of the church). > > Considering that Kilgore wasn't a preeminent name in Scotland -such as > > Stuart, Hamilton etc; it may be that researchers simply didn't look all > > that hard into the origin of the name Kilgore.> >> > While we're on the subject of early assertions made by Kilgore > > researchers, we might as well tackle the "Kill" and "Gore" question. > > Judge G. W. Kilgore claimed that the name Kilgore was derived from the > > habit of the "Black Douglas" to scream the words Kill and Gore at his > > enemies in the heat of battle. Note that the historical society claimed > > that the child (if indeed he was our ancestor) was given the name of the > > church. Note too-that the Black Douglas would almost certainly have been > > screaming his war cry in Scottish Gaelic-not the King's English. So I > > wouldn't place much faith in this origin story either.> >> > More to follow in later messages. Apparently I rambled too much and > > there's a size limit these days-so I'm breaking my rambling up.> >> > Vickie> >> > -------------------------------> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message> > > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ronald When you say Irish, do you mean Gaelic(sp)? What is the Gaelic word for "gone", not gore. There was a Douglas of the Black "tribe" and his nickname in English was "Kill and Gone". He might be the 9th Earl of Douglas ,1426-1488, the last of the Black Douglas's, whose property was confisticated by the crown in 1454 and he was exiled.. The Kilgore linage I traced back to about 1650 in Down Ireland., but if the story is true, I still need 200 years of Kilgore linage I am trying to trace the linage backwards from Lord Douglas Kilgore 1650-1720. His wife was Margaret Low? I am beginning to understand the importance of documenting where you get the information. I was not really concerned before. Now I can't find my book on the Kilgore's, from whence I found this story. Charles R. (Bob) Shaw 2425 Sherwin Dr. Twinsburg Ohio 44087 fax 330 963 6858 cell 330 247 8543 phone 330 425 8819 [email protected] [email protected] www.engineeredspecialproducts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "RONALD K MYATT" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas > Ok all, > > You all peaked my interest. So I had to open two of my favorite books to > see if there was an answer. > > The Surnames of Ireland by Edward MacLysaght says; > > (Mac) Kilgore; the Irish form of the name of this North-west Ulster family > is probably Mac Giolla Ghearirr, as Kilgar. Woulfe suggests Mac Giolla > Ghairbh (garbh, rough) hence Kilgarraf also, which is conjectural. He > gives this conjecturally also for Kilcourse. > > Since there was a question as to what KIll and Gore would be in the Irish > here they are. > > The Irish-English Dictionary by Geddes and Gosset; > > Kill; maraigh > Gore; saigh > > These definitions do not add a lot of credence to Kill and Gore being the > battle cry and name. Not a lot of help but the name does seem to be of > Scottish derivation as are a lot of Ulster names. The hard "G" in the > Irish has a "K" sound. > > I would love to see if anyone else has a dictionary that would give a > different definition, or a Scottish dictionary of surnames of language. > > Ron Myatt > > > > > > >> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]; >> [email protected]> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:06:59 -0400> Subject: Re: >> [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas> > Ramble on Vickie, I love all these stories.> >> The story I read was "kill and gone" was Kilgore in gailec(Irish). Can > >> anyone conform the translation?> See if you can find The first Kilgore in >> Ireland?> The Black Douglas was not necessarily a person but a linage. >> There were > also the Red Douglas's> James the 9th earl of Douglas was >> supposedly the last Black Douglas. The > next Earl was a red Douglas> It >> gets so confusing.> The 5 great-grandsons of Lord Douglas Kilgore >> (1650-1720) of Scotland fought > in the Rev. War.> Hiram was killed in >> the war.> Cousin Bob> > Charles R. (Bob) Shaw> 2425 Sherwin Dr.> >> Twinsburg Ohio 44087> fax 330 963 6858> cell 330 247 8543> phone 330 425 >> 8819> [email protected]> [email protected]> >> www.engineeredspecialproducts.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: >> "V! > ickie Miller" <[email protected]>> To: "Kilgore" > <[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 11:26 AM> > Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas> > > > Recently the Douglas question > has been raised again regarding the Kilgore > > family. To refresh the > memories of those who may not be acquainted with > > this question, early > Kilgore researchers made the assertion published in > > 1935 in the book > "Charles Kilgore of King's Mountain" by Hugh Addington > > that the > Kilgores were descended from Lord Douglas of Scotland-the > > so-called > "Black Douglas" which meant that the Kilgore name had originally > > been > Douglas. If you look up the name in the Scottish registry of names > > > you'll find this info: The earliest written record of the Kilgore name is > > > this entry: John Kilgour's wife, Janet December 14, 1690, had a child > > > baptized named Mar---Witnesses: Tom Pierce, George Tasker & etal From > > > (Baptisms of November-December 1690 for the earliest Coupar Angus Pa! > rish > > Register. Reproduced by courtesy of the Church of Scotland) a > lso > > included in the book Thomas Kilgore 1712-1822 and his Descendants" > by > > Evelyn Yates Carpenter. The enrtry also states that th!> > e first > known use of the name Kilgore was in connection to a child found > > on a > doorstep of a church and given the NAME of the Church and that local > > > tradition claimed that the child was a junior member of the local powerful > > > Douglas family who'd been recently outlawed and that the child > (presumedly > > male) was left behind to protect it as 'such things were > known to happen.' > > NOTE: the Historical society makes no claim as to > the validity of local > > tradition-merely includes it in their info.> > > This is the same information that Judge G. W. Kilgore received when he > > > also wrote the Scottish Historical Society inquiring about the origin of > > > the Kilgore name. Since there might have been validity to the local > > > tradition, Jerry Penley (who is now sadly deceased and who was the founder > > > of the Kilgore list on Rootswe! > b) made a point of pursuing this matter. > > Jerry Penley was an > outstanding and thorough researcher as any of those > > who ever had the > privelege of working with him can attest. He made > > contact with Douglas > researchers whose research he found to be sound. The > > response was that > all members of the Douglas family were accounted for and > > their lines > can be traced which means that our little foundling was NOT a > > > legitimate member of the Douglas family and also explains why our new > > > member Bob Shaw has been unable to make a connection to the Douglas > > > family-it doesn't exist. It's entirely possible that the child was born > > > out of wedlock to a member of the Douglas family and !> > left on the > doorstep; but he was not a legitimate scion of the family. > > Jerry's > findings can be found by searching the Kilgore list archives > > > at:http://boards.rootsweb.com/surname.aspx. Type in the name Kilgore and > > > it should take you to the list. The entries should be fo! > und around > > 1995-1996. Sorry, I'm not more specific than that-but I > 'm still on pokey > > old dial-up because of our location and am just not > inclined to search > > through the Archives. If anyone wishes to find > them-type in the word > > Douglas and sooner or later, Jerry's info he > obtained from the Douglas > > researchers should be found. As to the > assertions by early Kilgore > > researchers, it seems they took "local > tradition" one step further and > > made it fact. Jerry Penley later took > that "fact" and made it an unproven > > assertion. It should be noted that > there is absolutely no proof that the > > foundling child was in fact the > ancestor of the Kilgores of America. > > Note: that the Historical society > included only the fir!> > st known instance of the name-it doesn't list > any possible subsequent> > findings of the name (nor did it give a > location of the church). > > Considering that Kilgore wasn't a preeminent > name in Scotland -such as > > Stuart, Hamilton etc; it may be that > researchers simply didn't look all > > that hard into th! > e origin of the name Kilgore.> >> > While we're on the subject of early > assertions made by Kilgore > > researchers, we might as well tackle the > "Kill" and "Gore" question. > > Judge G. W. Kilgore claimed that the name > Kilgore was derived from the > > habit of the "Black Douglas" to scream > the words Kill and Gore at his > > enemies in the heat of battle. Note > that the historical society claimed > > that the child (if indeed he was > our ancestor) was given the name of the > > church. Note too-that the > Black Douglas would almost certainly have been > > screaming his war cry > in Scottish Gaelic-not the King's English. So I > > wouldn't place much > faith in this origin story either.> >> > More to follow in later messages. > Apparently I rambled too much and > > there's a size limit these days-so > I'm breaking my rambling up.> >> > Vickie> >> > > -------------------------------> > To unsubscribe from the list, please > send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubs! > cribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the messa > ge> > > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the > list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Bob, Yes I meant Gaelic but the term Irish is used to distinguish Irish Gaelic from the Welsh and Scottish. The roots are the same and much of the stock but you will never convince an Irishman and a Scot they speak the same language. I can read a little of the Gaelic I lived a couple of years in Ireland, the grammar structure and pronunciation is very similar to German. My little pocket dictionary of Irish did not have the word gone in it. I forgot to include that in the email, sorry. I found the following site on line with gone in Irish www.irishdictionary.ie/dictionary that should help all of us. "Gone" does not seem to have a direct translation into Irish, but is a suggested using the past tense of other words... Since there is a church in Scotland with the Kilgore name I would think that would be the area to search for the meaning of the name. The only reason as far as I can speculate the Kilgore name ended up in Ireland was as part of the great Plantation of the 1600's when the English broke the clans by transporting the troublemakers to Northern Ireland and displacing the Irish catholics of the region. County Down is Part of the Northern counties where the Scots were transplanted, as is county Derry where the surname book indicates the name originates. But I also take this with a grain of salt, the book is only as good as the researchers. I have not researched what records are available on the "Plantation" to see if individuals or even clans are listed. i will try to delve into that in the next few days. I tie into the Robert and Winnie Kilgore line through the Martin line in eastern Tennessee and have not yet reached the other side of the ocean on that line. > From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]; [email protected]> Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 20:04:48 -0400> > Ronald> When you say Irish, do you mean Gaelic(sp)?> What is the Gaelic word for "gone", not gore. There was a Douglas of the > Black "tribe" and his nickname in English was "Kill and Gone". He might be > the 9th Earl of Douglas ,1426-1488, the last of the Black Douglas's, whose > property was confisticated by the crown in 1454 and he was exiled.. The > Kilgore linage I traced back to about 1650 in Down Ireland., but if the > story is true, I still need 200 years of Kilgore linage> > I am trying to trace the linage backwards from Lord Douglas Kilgore > 1650-1720. His wife was Margaret Low?> > I am beginning to understand the importance of documenting where you get > the information. I was not really concerned before. Now I can't find my > book on the Kilgore's, from whence I found this story.> > Charles R. (Bob) Shaw> > 2425 Sherwin Dr.> Twinsburg Ohio 44087> fax 330 963 6858> cell 330 247 8543> phone 330 425 8819> [email protected]> [email protected]> www.engineeredspecialproducts.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RONALD K MYATT" <[email protected]>> To: <[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:39 PM> Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas> > > > Ok all,> >> > You all peaked my interest. So I had to open two of my favorite books to > > see if there was an answer.> >> > The Surnames of Ireland by Edward MacLysaght says;> >> > (Mac) Kilgore; the Irish form of the name of this North-west Ulster family > > is probably Mac Giolla Ghearirr, as Kilgar. Woulfe suggests Mac Giolla > > Ghairbh (garbh, rough) hence Kilgarraf also, which is conjectural. He > > gives this conjecturally also for Kilcourse.> >> > Since there was a question as to what KIll and Gore would be in the Irish > > here they are.> >> > The Irish-English Dictionary by Geddes and Gosset;> >> > Kill; maraigh> > Gore; saigh> >> > These definitions do not add a lot of credence to Kill and Gore being the > > battle cry and name. Not a lot of help but the name does seem to be of > > Scottish derivation as are a lot of Ulster names. The hard "G" in the > > Irish has a "K" sound.> >> > I would love to see if anyone else has a dictionary that would give a > > different definition, or a Scottish dictionary of surnames of language.> >> > Ron Myatt> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: [email protected]> To: [email protected]; > >> [email protected]> Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 17:06:59 -0400> Subject: Re: > >> [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas> > Ramble on Vickie, I love all these stories.> > >> The story I read was "kill and gone" was Kilgore in gailec(Irish). Can > > >> anyone conform the translation?> See if you can find The first Kilgore in > >> Ireland?> The Black Douglas was not necessarily a person but a linage. > >> There were > also the Red Douglas's> James the 9th earl of Douglas was > >> supposedly the last Black Douglas. The > next Earl was a red Douglas> It > >> gets so confusing.> The 5 great-grandsons of Lord Douglas Kilgore > >> (1650-1720) of Scotland fought > in the Rev. War.> Hiram was killed in > >> the war.> Cousin Bob> > Charles R. (Bob) Shaw> 2425 Sherwin Dr.> > >> Twinsburg Ohio 44087> fax 330 963 6858> cell 330 247 8543> phone 330 425 > >> 8819> [email protected]> [email protected]> > >> www.engineeredspecialproducts.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: > >> "V!> > ickie Miller" <[email protected]>> To: "Kilgore" > > <[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 11:26 AM> > > Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas> > > > Recently the Douglas question > > has been raised again regarding the Kilgore > > family. To refresh the > > memories of those who may not be acquainted with > > this question, early > > Kilgore researchers made the assertion published in > > 1935 in the book > > "Charles Kilgore of King's Mountain" by Hugh Addington > > that the > > Kilgores were descended from Lord Douglas of Scotland-the > > so-called > > "Black Douglas" which meant that the Kilgore name had originally > > been > > Douglas. If you look up the name in the Scottish registry of names > > > > you'll find this info: The earliest written record of the Kilgore name is > > > > this entry: John Kilgour's wife, Janet December 14, 1690, had a child > > > > baptized named Mar---Witnesses: Tom Pierce, George Tasker & etal From > > > > (Baptisms of November-December 1690 for the earliest Coupar Angus Pa!> > rish > > Register. Reproduced by courtesy of the Church of Scotland) a> > lso > > included in the book Thomas Kilgore 1712-1822 and his Descendants" > > by > > Evelyn Yates Carpenter. The enrtry also states that th!> > e first > > known use of the name Kilgore was in connection to a child found > > on a > > doorstep of a church and given the NAME of the Church and that local > > > > tradition claimed that the child was a junior member of the local powerful > > > > Douglas family who'd been recently outlawed and that the child > > (presumedly > > male) was left behind to protect it as 'such things were > > known to happen.' > > NOTE: the Historical society makes no claim as to > > the validity of local > > tradition-merely includes it in their info.> > > > This is the same information that Judge G. W. Kilgore received when he > > > > also wrote the Scottish Historical Society inquiring about the origin of > > > > the Kilgore name. Since there might have been validity to the local > > > > tradition, Jerry Penley (who is now sadly deceased and who was the founder > > > > of the Kilgore list on Rootswe!> > b) made a point of pursuing this matter. > > Jerry Penley was an > > outstanding and thorough researcher as any of those > > who ever had the > > privelege of working with him can attest. He made > > contact with Douglas > > researchers whose research he found to be sound. The > > response was that > > all members of the Douglas family were accounted for and > > their lines > > can be traced which means that our little foundling was NOT a > > > > legitimate member of the Douglas family and also explains why our new > > > > member Bob Shaw has been unable to make a connection to the Douglas > > > > family-it doesn't exist. It's entirely possible that the child was born > > > > out of wedlock to a member of the Douglas family and !> > left on the > > doorstep; but he was not a legitimate scion of the family. > > Jerry's > > findings can be found by searching the Kilgore list archives > > > > at:http://boards.rootsweb.com/surname.aspx. Type in the name Kilgore and > > > > it should take you to the list. The entries should be fo!> > und around > > 1995-1996. Sorry, I'm not more specific than that-but I> > 'm still on pokey > > old dial-up because of our location and am just not > > inclined to search > > through the Archives. If anyone wishes to find > > them-type in the word > > Douglas and sooner or later, Jerry's info he > > obtained from the Douglas > > researchers should be found. As to the > > assertions by early Kilgore > > researchers, it seems they took "local > > tradition" one step further and > > made it fact. Jerry Penley later took > > that "fact" and made it an unproven > > assertion. It should be noted that > > there is absolutely no proof that the > > foundling child was in fact the > > ancestor of the Kilgores of America. > > Note: that the Historical society > > included only the fir!> > st known instance of the name-it doesn't list > > any possible subsequent> > findings of the name (nor did it give a > > location of the church). > > Considering that Kilgore wasn't a preeminent > > name in Scotland -such as > > Stuart, Hamilton etc; it may be that > > researchers simply didn't look all > > that hard into th!> > e origin of the name Kilgore.> >> > While we're on the subject of early > > assertions made by Kilgore > > researchers, we might as well tackle the > > "Kill" and "Gore" question. > > Judge G. W. Kilgore claimed that the name > > Kilgore was derived from the > > habit of the "Black Douglas" to scream > > the words Kill and Gore at his > > enemies in the heat of battle. Note > > that the historical society claimed > > that the child (if indeed he was > > our ancestor) was given the name of the > > church. Note too-that the > > Black Douglas would almost certainly have been > > screaming his war cry > > in Scottish Gaelic-not the King's English. So I > > wouldn't place much > > faith in this origin story either.> >> > More to follow in later messages. > > Apparently I rambled too much and > > there's a size limit these days-so > > I'm breaking my rambling up.> >> > Vickie> >> > > > -------------------------------> > To unsubscribe from the list, please > > send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubs!> > cribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the messa> > ge> > > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the > > list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message> >> > -------------------------------> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message> > > >