1858-March 5 Columbia Co AR:Three Creeks Ark: Hon David Kilgore, Dear Sir: recd a note from Hon. E. A. Warrne from yourself to him making inquiries for the purpose of ascertaining whether we were of the same family. I know that my great grandfather came from Ireland about 200 years ago with four sons and settled in Penna or Maryland. The names of his sons were Ralph, William, Charles and Thomas. The last name was my grandfather who settled in an early day in North Carolina, from whence he, in company with my father, then quite a youth, removed to Tennessee, immediately after the Revolutionary War. Tennessee was then an unbroken wilderness and they were forced to build and live in a fort as a protection aginst the Indians. This fort was called Killgore's Station and was situated near where Nashville now stands. My grandfather died since my recollection at the advance age of 110 years. My fathers name was also Thomas.My father had three brothers, all of whom were active! ly engaged in the Revolutionary War and one of them was shot through at the battle of Kings Mountain. If you are a relative to us, you will have no cause to blush on account of those four then young men as they all fought and shed their blood freely in battling for the liberty we now enjoy. We have relations in Indiana and Kentucky. I remember having seen at my father's house in Tennessee, many years ago, four men of our name whose given names were John, Huey, David and Charles. I have heard my father speak of an Obed Kilgore who was a relation. Where he lived I do not know. The name James was a common one in our family. I recollect hearing my grandfather say that all of the names were related, which must necessarily be true according to the legend. I think sir, we have the right to be proud of the name as I have never yet seen it associated with crime or infamy. So may it ver be. I enclose you a short obituary notice of my father who recently died at the age of 9! 4 years, I close sir! With the request that you will let me know the history of your immediate family which I will take as a great favor. Respectfully yours, etc. G. L. Kilgore -Thompson Journals V.20 p150-152 (re:Lee Bartos internet contact). So if we just go with the flow here-we've got: Great-Grandfather (name unknown) who came to America about 1658 give or take 4 sons: Thomas died 1822 Robertson Co TN Ralph died c1783 Augusta Co GA William died c1791 Augusta Co GA Charles died 1823 Greene Co TN then Thomas born c1759 died 1857 was at King's Mountain with 3 brothers then Gabriel Lea Kilgore s/o Thomas & Phoebe Lea Kilgore (named after mother's brother, Gabriel Lea) born c1798 died 1872. The brothers of Thomas Kilgore b c1759 who fought at King's Mountain. It states that he had 3 brothers who fought there. We don't have a completer roster of names of those who fought there. G. W. Kilgore's list: James, William, Robert, Charles & Hiram. It further states that Robert Kilgore was shot through the body but survived, Charles was wounded and Hiram killed. Considering that there were specific actions prescribed to at least 3 of the names on the list (whether or not they were actually brothers) it suggests that there was some fairly accurate source for these names. This letter speaks of a brother who was shot through the body-but doesn't say it caused the death of this brother-this conforms to info concerning Robert. We always presume that it was Robert Kilgore died 1782 who was shot because of Judge G. W. Kilgore's brother list; however, there was a Bob Kilgore who was listed in "Cherokee" Co TN in 1797 which is close in proximity to Thomas Kilgore of Robertson Co TN. What if he was the Robert Kilgore who was shot and survived? Also there some persistant beliefs of Indian blood in some TN Kilgores-could this Bob be the source???? **D. L. Killgore physician, represented Columbia Co in General Assembly of AR b Robertson Co TN 1823, second child of Gabriel & Matilda (Moore) Killgore natives of NC. Gabriel moved to TN where he m 1819. A planter and slave owner and a resident of AR after 1850 until his death at 78, representative of Union Co in State Legislature, but in 1860, until his death in 1872, a resident of Columbia Co. Gabriel's father was Thomas Killgore Revolutionary Soldier, in Battle of King's Mountain where his brother was killed by his side. Gabriel's wife Matilda's father was Rev. William Moore of the Old School Presbyterian Church. Matilda d 1876 at 82 years. D. L. Killgore attended school TN, and at 21 years began study of medicine at Holly Springs MS where his father had moved in 1823, graduated from medical college Memphis, TN 1848-49, settled at Three Creeks, Union Co AR until 1803, (??) moved to Magnolia until after the war, to a farm six miles from Magnolia where he practiced u! ntil 1883, after which he lived in Magnolia. Joined Confederate Army in 1861, Captain of Columbia Guards, 6th Ark Reg of Infantry, later Major. In 1862 he resigned and returned home, raising Sec Ark Volunteers, elected Lieut Col was in battles of Farmington and Poison Springs, Mark's Mill and other battles, surrendered his command at Magnolia. After the war to purchase medicine he sold his gold watch in Shreveport La. Political career followed. He m Mary Pearce of Ripley MS 1847. she was d/o Joseph Pearce of Weakley Co TN. Children of D L and Mary: Pearce Killgore physician; Dawson L. Killgore physician d 1866; Albert S. Killgore atty of Magnolia. Pearce Killgore m Miss Bettie Farr of Magnolia. D. L. & Mary were Methodists 1 7/27 The entry above was made by Dawson Lea Kilgore s/o Gabriel-note that it is slightly different from above 1858 letter. This time it states that Thomas Kilgore's brother was killed by his side. Do the two entries refer to the same brother? Or does one happen to mention the shot brother and the other the killed brother? This one seems to refer to Hiram Kilgore. So that now makes it: Thomas Kilgore born c1759 Hiram Kilgore died 1780 Bob Kilgore died after 1797 Charles Kilgore married 1796 Unice Lea Johnson Kilgore born c1765 Is one of the latter two the 3rd brother? Or is the 3rd brother the Matthew Kilgore listed in this abstract ?: 1783-Tennessee:list of Commissioners traveling through TN looking over land: Thomas Kilgore (Quarter master); Mathew Kilgore (chain carrier) (p4 8 2/3) cont'd

Ok now I am totally lost! I am from Robert and winney through Lewis green and Easter Kilgore so what is the real line??? I have also seen Kilgore as a sept of Douglas and of Mcduff I would like to know just what my family line is.thank you Jim Foley -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vickie Miller Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:45 PM To: Kilgore Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers I strongly believe that there is something to the story of the Kilgore brothers. Both the Russell Co VA Kilgores and the Robertson Co TN Kilgores have an oral tradition of Kilgore brothers. The fact that both lines have a tradition of brothers does support the supposition that the two lines were somehow closely related-we just haven't been able to determine quite how. I'm more inclined to go with the Robertson Co TN tradition as closer to fact than G. W. Kilgores supposition; which is precisely what I think his was at least in regards to their identity. I think that bearing in mind that there was a tradition of brothers in G. W. Kilgore's line, he was on the lookout for brothers and when he came across the book that listed a roster of soldiers who served at King's Mountain; he saw 5 men listed with the name Kilgore and said "Bingo" or "Eureka" or "Hallelujah" or whatever "I've found them -these must be the brothers our family history speak of." He then listed them as ! brothers and we've contended with those names since; which means to some extent those of us concerned with these lines keep trying to put them together and slice and dice to make things work-when they might not necessarily fit. When it comes to "family tradition", I always keep in mind what I read in a book about beginning genealogy written by an accredited genealogist (no I don't remember his name or his book-just that I read it about 15 years ago)-be wary of "family history & traditions" because facts change with each telling and re-telling of the story. Use them as guidelines-absolutely-but don't accept them as gospel truth until or unless you can independently verify them and better yet-document them. Due to space considerations-I'll continue this on another email Vickie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

1858-March 5 Columbia Co AR:Three Creeks Ark: Hon David Kilgore, Dear Sir: recd a note from Hon. E. A. Warrne from yourself to him making inquiries for the purpose of ascertaining whether we were of the same family. I know that my great grandfather came from Ireland about 200 years ago with four sons and settled in Penna or Maryland. The names of his sons were Ralph, William, Charles and Thomas. The last name was my grandfather who settled in an early day in North Carolina, from whence he, in company with my father, then quite a youth, removed to Tennessee, immediately after the Revolutionary War. Tennessee was then an unbroken wilderness and they were forced to build and live in a fort as a protection aginst the Indians. This fort was called Killgore's Station and was situated near where Nashville now stands. My grandfather died since my recollection at the advance age of 110 years. My fathers name was also Thomas.My father had three brothers, all of whom were active! ly engaged in the Revolutionary War and one of them was shot through at the battle of Kings Mountain. If you are a relative to us, you will have no cause to blush on account of those four then young men as they all fought and shed their blood freely in battling for the liberty we now enjoy. We have relations in Indiana and Kentucky. I remember having seen at my father's house in Tennessee, many years ago, four men of our name whose given names were John, Huey, David and Charles. I have heard my father speak of an Obed Kilgore who was a relation. Where he lived I do not know. The name James was a common one in our family. I recollect hearing my grandfather say that all of the names were related, which must necessarily be true according to the legend. I think sir, we have the right to be proud of the name as I have never yet seen it associated with crime or infamy. So may it ver be. I enclose you a short obituary notice of my father who recently died at the age of 9! 4 years, I close sir! With the request that you will let me know the history of your immediate family which I will take as a great favor. Respectfully yours, etc. G. L. Kilgore -Thompson Journals V.20 p150-152 (re:Lee Bartos internet contact). As long as we're having a discussion-why don't we rehash this letter and maybe come at from a fresh perspective. For instance, just for the sake of argument-let's drop G. W. Kilgore's 5 brothers for a moment. Also we should keep in mind that this letter is based on oral traditions and that the "facts" it contains may lack accuracy. First: it states that Gabriel Lea Kilgore listed age 62 on 1860 Census Columbia Co NC claims that his great-grandfather came over from Ireland about 200 years ago with 4 sons and settled in PA or MD. Well, I don't think we need consider abt 200 years ago a precise number-it should more likely be 200 years ago give or take some. Note that the great-grandfather was supposed to have come from Ireland. Both the Robertson & Russell Co Kilgores have a tradition that the first ancestor came from Ireland-not Scotland. This says that the great-grandfather had 4 sons who accompanied him and that they were Ralph, William, Charles & Thomas. Well for the sake of argument, lets presume that Ralph & William are the ones in Augusta District GA, Charles is the one who died in Greene Co TN in 1823 and Thomas the one who died in Robertson Co TN in 1822. There's no mention of a Robert Kilgore although he's the earliest known Kilgore listed in the Orange Co NC area where Thomas Kilgore died 1822 came from. Was he the unnamed great-grandfather? What about Robert married Winnie Clayton-he's believed though not proved to be the b/o Charles Kilgore-and if he was in fact Charles' brother-that makes him a brother of Gabriel's grandfather, Thomas who died in 1822. So the question is: Was Robert (M: Winnie) not included in the list of brothers because he was forgotten? Or because he wasn't the brother of these men? Descendants of William Kilgore list his birth as about 1726 -we know that he was married with 3 children when he applied for a land grant in 1755 Augusta District GA (presuming that he was the same William Kilgore listed in Orange Co -and now we know he was listed there (actually Granville Co) as early as 1751 when he appears on a tax list along with "Robbard Kilgore" hey are separated by 14 names but listed in the same list. Charles Kilgore was born in 1740 making him abt 14 years older than William. I don't have a birth date for Ralph-his date of death was about 1783 and William died about 1791. Thomas Kilgore, f/o of Gabriel Lea Kilgore was born c1759 NC according to 1850 census record & he died in 1857 Columbia Co AR. Note that he is the soldier listed in the above letter with the THREE brothers who fought in the battle. This makes Thomas about 21 years old at the time the Battle of King's Mountain occurred in Oct 1780. This Thomas Kilgore married Phoebe Lee in 1786 Orange Co NC. He's listed as having a brother named Charles who married Unice Lea in 1796 Orange Co NC and is believed to be one of the two males listed under the age of 21 on 1786 Orange Co NC census in the household of Lydia Kilgore (who's listed as head of household) the other male is supposed to be Johnson Kilgore who was born about 1765 NC and died in Warren Co MO after 1850. The father of Thomas Kilgore born c1759 is the Thomas Kilgore who died in Robertson Co TN in 1822. His birth is listed as 1712-1715-in one account he's 110 years old and in another he's 108 years old. A newspaper entry in the "Knoxville Register" published in 1822 stated that he died at the age of 110 years old-but provided no additional details. I personally have a problem with this age-I just can't wrap my head around it. I think that it must be off by at least 10-20 years. (Just because it was printed in a newspaper doesn't make it true). We can be reasonably sure that he was born before 1738 because he was likely at least 21 years old (and probably older) when his son, Thomas was born. If we presume that the parents of Thomas Kilgore married when they were both of legal age -21 as most did in those days-though not all women were 21 and some were older-then Thomas' mother was born c1691 or earlier making her 49 years old or so when Charles was born. It doesn't rule her out-but it's pushing the envelope. It's also possible that these men were half-brothers-although there is no oral tradition of that. Personally, I think that if you knock off about 10 years from Thomas' age you get a birth date of c1722 to 1725 making it more likely that he could be William & Ralph's brother and Charles' too -that would make their mother in her late 30s or early 40s-quite acceptable age range now. -I'd better continue this again-it seems Rootsweb bounce long messages these days

I knew the "real" truth would finally come out - and now it has... It helps to explain so many things .... or does it??   %-)      Cousin Nina in Texas - waiting for the hurricane (Ike). --- On Tue, 9/9/08, D Rennow <[email protected]> wrote: From: D Rennow <[email protected]> Subject: [KILGORE] Randy's Version of the Kilgore Family History To: "Kilgore" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 9:43 AM OK I didn't want to reveal this, as some people are very sensitive and get real defensive when faced with the truth. So instead of all that, just be glad that Randy shared his research with me. Thank you Randy. You're a good man. In the mid 1700's, in what is now Poland, thirteen odd men escaped from the central insane asylum. They joined a circus, which traveled across Europe. After a long year, three of the men decided they had had enough of scooping elephant poop. Upon reaching the coast, they joined a band of pirates, specifically the Dread Pirate Robert. [Yes, it was the same Pirate Robert made famous by the Princess Bride movie.] One of the insane pirates was not happy. He complained, "If I have to experience any more gore, I'll kill myself." No need said Pirate Robert. Get off my ship. Then Robert kicked him over board. Splash. He swam to shore past hungry sharks. Even though he was covered in blood, he smelled so bad that they rejected him as lunch. Apparently, he had not bathed in years. A young woman saw him lying on the beach. She asked him his name. He mumbled something about gore, kill, gore, blood, kill--gore, pirate, Robert, kill... She asked, "You are Robert Kilgore?" He moaned which she took as an affirmation. From then on the insane pirate, elephant attendant, Franco Subalasky, was known as Robert Kilgore. He settled in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Yes, he had family in both places. He didn't do it on purpose. Although undiagnosed as such, he obviously suffered from multi personality disorder. Also one personality thought he was born 30 years after the other, which confused friends and family. His Virginia family consisted of 5 sons. They were all big talkers and even the ones who slept through the Revolution, boasted of fighting at Kings Mountain. Once the emails were sent, it was accepted as fact. Any questions? Cousin Dennie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well Randy, if nothing else you ALWAYS put a smile on our faces and make us stop and think. You are a treasure and a keeper!! Gail On 9/9/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > ...of the pickle flute brigade, that is. > > Wow, we haven't seen this kind of emailing since the early days, when Jerry > had to referee while the various lines duked it out online...while > maintaining > a level of jocularity, familiarity and familial concern not experienced on > most such lists. > > I, of course, was the resident fruitcake, launching pickle flute brigades, > port-a-potty-singing groups, tin foil howls at the moon, etc. > > Meanwhile, a tiny band of secret genealogists infiltrated the group and > steered us away from the myths and lore to the sturdy feel of > paper proofs. What > a service they render(ed); nailing down what could be known for certain so > that the areas where we have to guess (5 brothers or 3?) could be guessed > at > cordially but without planting flags of certainty on because the paper > didn't > prove it. > > For my money, if Vickie says it, then even the DAR is wrong if they > contradict her, and Dennie is a close second. And while I'm at it, I > guess I should > acknowledge, too, that the same fear I had of Jerry when he spoke > now rests > with Gail. She's the boss of me and this list too; she has the innate > ability > to tell me when to kid and when to be quiet without making me pout, > secrets > I'm willing to pay her dearly not to sell to my wife! > > At any rate, this ramble does have a point. One day while researching > one of > my books, I got bored at the Boston library and started hunting down > references to the Kilgores at King's Mountain. I found one book that > was listed as > no longer in print, but which was available in microfiche; it was > a narrative > of King's Mountain and Cowpens. That book made reference to three > Kilgores > only at King's Mountain, serving with John Sevier, and then mentioned only > one Kilgore at Cowpens. I should hurry up and add that the book only > mentioned > individuals who had committed a notable act, so it wasn't a roster, merely > a > narrative. It made no reference to relationships between the Kilgores at > all. Now here's the sorry news: I've since moved three times and the > notes I > took that day (copied the microfiche) are buried somewhere in boxes in the > basement, so what I just told you is hearsay. I'll find it someday, I'm > sure, > though with my health it's not likely to be soon. That said, it would > probably > be easier for me to trek back to the Boston library again. > > I also remember seeing convincing arguments when Jerry was with us against > the 5 brothers theory, and the only place I've ever seen anyone say there > were > 5 Kilgores at King's Mountain was on this list in reference to the > now-proven-as-best-guesses book that judge did. I was also once told by an > Irish > researcher that Kilgore in Ireland is MacGillivray, and that that > strain were > really transplanted Scots...and that the Kilgore name comes from words > that mean > "people who live by the woods where goats are kept." I have no reason to > give what they told me any credibility at all, but the wide range > of stories > makes me happy for the Vickie and Dennie's of the world; they make it okay > for > writers like me to drift off into dreamland...(since Randall means "wolf", > then that must make me the wolf who's hovering around the people who live > by the > woods where goats are kept." > > By the way, literally right after I typed this "goats" thing, DHL delivered > the very first copy of my book off the press!! Yippee! In two weeks, > you > can find it at Target, Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc. It's already up at > Amazon.com. Oops, that was off-topic again... > > Bob, we're glad to have new blood; you'll find this the wildest group of > cousin-chasers anywhere in genealogy, and as long as you can laugh (at us > AND > yourself) you'll be glad you joined. The archives are incredibly > stuffed with > accurate info, and if you start your search by using these four > terms, you'll > find more than you can ever find elsewhere on the Kilgores: "vickie" > "dennie" "gail" "jerry". > > Always remember, though, that for the really important matters, everyone on > this board always puts their purple boxers on, covers their left fingers in > tin foil, and emails the list looking for me. I'm known to the > long-termers as > Wikimiki, which is Cherokee for handsome-dude-who-is-always-right. > > The-still-not-all-there-cousin, > Randy > > > > > > > > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Wow, really interesting, thanks so much for sharing. Gail On 9/9/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > FWIW...My family and I were in Ireland and Scotland this summer. The > following is the

I strongly believe that there is something to the story of the Kilgore brothers. Both the Russell Co VA Kilgores and the Robertson Co TN Kilgores have an oral tradition of Kilgore brothers. The fact that both lines have a tradition of brothers does support the supposition that the two lines were somehow closely related-we just haven't been able to determine quite how. I'm more inclined to go with the Robertson Co TN tradition as closer to fact than G. W. Kilgores supposition; which is precisely what I think his was at least in regards to their identity. I think that bearing in mind that there was a tradition of brothers in G. W. Kilgore's line, he was on the lookout for brothers and when he came across the book that listed a roster of soldiers who served at King's Mountain; he saw 5 men listed with the name Kilgore and said "Bingo" or "Eureka" or "Hallelujah" or whatever "I've found them -these must be the brothers our family history speak of." He then listed them as brothers and we've contended with those names since; which means to some extent those of us concerned with these lines keep trying to put them together and slice and dice to make things work-when they might not necessarily fit. When it comes to "family tradition", I always keep in mind what I read in a book about beginning genealogy written by an accredited genealogist (no I don't remember his name or his book-just that I read it about 15 years ago)-be wary of "family history & traditions" because facts change with each telling and re-telling of the story. Use them as guidelines-absolutely-but don't accept them as gospel truth until or unless you can independently verify them and better yet-document them. Due to space considerations-I'll continue this on another email Vickie

Define FULL. Some of the ships were supply ships with only a few passengers. I was bragging that I have 2 ancestors that came over on the Mayflower. My wife said that hers were already over here waiting on them. She was right. One of her ancestors came over on a ship in 1608. I think there are books you can purchase with passemger lists of later dates? > My mother's paternal family came over on their own ships. They owned a > big shipping company. > But I digress... > Were the 53 ships full of pilgrims? > > Bob Shaw wrote: >> Yes there is a list of ships and passengers for the early pilgrims from >> 1608 >> to about 1635. >> I have a copy of those. >> Did you know there were 53 ships that came over before the Mayflower?? >> >> Charles R. (Bob) Shaw >> 2425 Sherwin Dr. >> Twinsburg Ohio 44087 >> fax 330 963 6858 >> cell 330 247 8543 >> phone 330 425 8819 >> [email protected] >> [email protected] >> www.engineeredspecialproducts.com >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Vickie Miller" <[email protected]> >> To: "Sherry Arnold" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:33 AM >> Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 >> >> >> >>> In the time that these Kilgores or earlier ones came to America, it >>> wasn't >>> required that ships maintain passenger lists. It was the discretion of >>> the ship's captain to keep them or not-this was especially true in >>> Southern ports. That's why passenger lists as a source are hit and >>> miss. >>> Until they actually became required, most persons coming to America >>> weren't listed on any passenger lists or in any ports or any that >>> survived >>> until today. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Sherry Arnold<mailto:[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:09 PM >>> Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 >>> >>> >>> Vickie, thank you for taking your time to catch us new comers up on >>> past >>> research, I certainly appreciate it. >>> >>> Has anyone ever found any of these early Kilgores on a ship's passenger >>> list? >>> And do we have access to a record of departure lists from Ireland??? >>> >>> Sherry >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Gail Kilgore" >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:30 PM >>> Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 >>> >>> >>> > Bob and others, >>> > >>> > Please remember that back when Addington wrote his book, >>> documentation >>> was >>> > not as readily available as it is today. >>> > >>> > This book has been picked apart by this group searching the Kilgore >>> name >>> > and >>> > have proven the information invalid. >>> > >>> > This is what Vicky is trying to say. >>> > >>> > This is also why the wrong information keeps getting printed as valid >>> > solid >>> > documentation when, in fact, it is wrong. >>> > >>> > Not to start an argument but to try and settle the truth, Bob what do >>> you >>> > have as solid in hand documentation of what you have found rather >>> than >>> > what >>> > some other researcher has said? >>> > >>> > Heck, I can say that my husband's line of Kilgore's were first >>> cousins >>> of >>> > Mary Queen of Scots but saying it and proving it is totally two >>> different >>> > things. >>> > >>> > I can also say, any new shred of information found on any of the >>> lines >>> > finds >>> > it way to this list, so this group of researchers can almost call >>> their >>> > work >>> > the "Gospel". >>> > >>> > Gail >>> > >>> > ------------------------------- >>> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>> with >>> the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with >>> the >>> word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My mother's paternal family came over on their own ships. They owned a big shipping company. But I digress... Were the 53 ships full of pilgrims? Bob Shaw wrote: > Yes there is a list of ships and passengers for the early pilgrims from 1608 > to about 1635. > I have a copy of those. > Did you know there were 53 ships that came over before the Mayflower?? > > Charles R. (Bob) Shaw > 2425 Sherwin Dr. > Twinsburg Ohio 44087 > fax 330 963 6858 > cell 330 247 8543 > phone 330 425 8819 > [email protected] > [email protected] > www.engineeredspecialproducts.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vickie Miller" <[email protected]> > To: "Sherry Arnold" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:33 AM > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 > > > >> In the time that these Kilgores or earlier ones came to America, it wasn't >> required that ships maintain passenger lists. It was the discretion of >> the ship's captain to keep them or not-this was especially true in >> Southern ports. That's why passenger lists as a source are hit and miss. >> Until they actually became required, most persons coming to America >> weren't listed on any passenger lists or in any ports or any that survived >> until today. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Sherry Arnold<mailto:[email protected]> >> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 >> >> >> Vickie, thank you for taking your time to catch us new comers up on past >> research, I certainly appreciate it. >> >> Has anyone ever found any of these early Kilgores on a ship's passenger >> list? >> And do we have access to a record of departure lists from Ireland??? >> >> Sherry >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gail Kilgore" >> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> >> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 >> >> >> > Bob and others, >> > >> > Please remember that back when Addington wrote his book, documentation >> was >> > not as readily available as it is today. >> > >> > This book has been picked apart by this group searching the Kilgore >> name >> > and >> > have proven the information invalid. >> > >> > This is what Vicky is trying to say. >> > >> > This is also why the wrong information keeps getting printed as valid >> > solid >> > documentation when, in fact, it is wrong. >> > >> > Not to start an argument but to try and settle the truth, Bob what do >> you >> > have as solid in hand documentation of what you have found rather than >> > what >> > some other researcher has said? >> > >> > Heck, I can say that my husband's line of Kilgore's were first cousins >> of >> > Mary Queen of Scots but saying it and proving it is totally two >> different >> > things. >> > >> > I can also say, any new shred of information found on any of the lines >> > finds >> > it way to this list, so this group of researchers can almost call their >> > work >> > the "Gospel". >> > >> > Gail >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with >> the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the >> word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thanks. This is most interesting. "associated with" sounds like a band of bank robbers or something sneaky. Oh and the American Kilgores associated with this board have a coat of arms. If you need a copy, just email me privately and I shall send it to you. Cousin Dennie Member in good standing of the Purple Shorts & Pickle Flute Kilgore Clan [email protected] wrote: > FWIW...My family and I were in Ireland and Scotland this summer. The following is the information we received from the Scots Heritage Society in Edinburgh. They told us that we were actually more often associated with the MacDuff Clan (note "associated with" not "a part of"). The Irish Heritage Center in County Wexford, IR also backed up the story that Kilgours arrived in County Ulster, Ireland from Scotland. We were also able to find the Kilgour family tartan. > Jennifer Kilgore Jerome > > The tale of the name Kilgour begins with a family who lived in Kilgour, which is located near Falkland in the county of Fife. The surname Kilgore belongs to the category of habitation names, which are derived from pre-existing names for towns, villages, parishes, or farmsteads. The ancient family name Kilgour is believed to be originally of the Pictish race. Legend relates this founding race as being settled in North-Eastern Scotland, coming originally from the shores of Brittany about the 5th century B.C. Migrating, they sailed northward to Ireland where the Kings of Ireland refused them permission to land and settle, but they were allowed to settle in the eastern part of Scotland on the condition that all Pictish Kings marry an Irish Princess, thus assuring the Irish of a colony which would always be a part of the Irish royal court. According the the Venerable Bede, England's oldest historian born in 673 A.D., this Pictish settlement established a matriarchal hierarchy! > which > was unique in the annals of British history. > One Pictish King shown in documented history was Nechtan, in about 724 A.D. There had been many who had fought valiantly at Hadrian's Wall against the Roman invasion many centuries before. Rivals of the Picts to the west were the Dalriadans or the Highlanders of the Western Isles, who were their constant foes in the battle for supremacy for power over all Scotland, known then as Alba, or Caledonia. > Nechtan was finally expelled from Pictland by Alpin, half Dalriadan, half Pict, the result of a political marriage. Alpin's son, Kenneth MacAlpine son of Alpin, became the first recorded King of Scotland as we know it today. The Picts, compressed by the northern invasion of the Orcadian Vikings who penetrated as far south as Caithness, sometimes even to Edinburgh, were left with a territory on the eastern coast of Scotland from Inverness, south to Edinburgh. > >From some of the many early records, researchers examined such records as the Inquisitio, 1120 A.D., the Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, The Ragman Rolls, the Chronicles of the Picts and Scots, and various other cartularies of parishes in Scotland. From these archives they produced the early records of the name Kilgour in Fifeshire where they were seated from very ancient times, some say well before the Norman Conquest and the arrival of Duke William at Hastings in 1066 A.D. > The surname Kilgour was found in many different forms. In the archives researched the earliest spelling of the name bore little resemblance to the one now used but the genealogical connections have been established by experienced historical scholars. Although your name Kilgour occurred in many references, from time to time the surname was spelt Kilgour, Kilgore, and some of these versions are still used today. These changes in spelling frequently occurred, even between father and son. Preferences for spelling variations usually either came from a division of the family, or had religious reasons, or sometimes patriotic reasons. Scribes and church people frequently selected their own version of what they thought the spelling should be. > The family name Kilgour emerged as that of a Scottish Clan or family in this territory. More specifically they developed from their original territories of Fifeshire where they held the territories of Kilgour near Falkland. The first on record was Sir Thomas Kilgour who was Chaplain of the Palace of Falkland. The family flourished on their estates and by the year 1600 another Sir Thomas Kilgour was Chief of the Clan. Alexander Kilgour , his successor had a son, David. John Kilgour was sacristar of the Aberdeen Cathedral. Henry Kilgour was Chief of the Clan territories in 1644. Notable amongst the Clan at this time was Kilgour of Fife. > During the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, Scotland was ravaged by religious conflict. The newly found passionate fervour of Presbyterianism and the Church of Scotland rejected all who could not pass "The Test" of taking an oath of belief in the Church. Those failing the "Test" were frequently hanged in the High Street, or, more kindly, banished to the Colonies, to Australia, the Carolinas of the Islands. > Meanwhile, the Roman Church still fought to retain its status. Many Clansmen were freely "encouraged" to migrate to Ireland. From 1603 to 1790, Scottish Clans and families were recruited from the English-Scotish border and north of Edinburgh to populate northern Ireland with Protestant stock faithful to the crown. Many heads of families migrated from Scotland to Ireland during this period. They became known as the "Scotch/Irish." The name Kilgour may well have arrived in Ireland early in the 17th century during the reign of James I of Britain, when six counties in Ulster were confiscated and settled by the Protestant Planters" or "Undertakers, as these settlers were known. > The migration or banishment to the New World also continued, some went voluntarily from Ireland, but most come directly from Scotland, their home territories. Some also moved to the European continent. They sailed to the New World across the stormy Atlantic aboard the small sailing ships known as the "White Sails," ships such as the Hector, the Rambler or the Dove. These overcrowded ships sometimes spending two months at sea, were racked with disease, frequently landing with only 60% of their original passenger lists. > In North America, early immigrants bearing the Kilgour surname Kilgour, or a spelling variation of this family name included Francis Kilgore settled in Virginia in 1761; Joseph and Martha Kilgour settled with their four children in Barstable Mass, in 1822; George Kilgour arrived in San Francisco in 1850. > The coat of arms found for a bearer of the Kilgour surname did not include a motto. Under most heraldic authorities, a motto is an optional component of the coat of arms, and many families have chosen not to display a motto. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for sharing this. This is new information for me. I've seen the association with the county of Fife. The earliest Kilgore I've been able to find was Peter Kilgore who was listed in Lancaster Co VA in 1678. He (or another Peter Kilgore) died in 1709 Lancaster Co VA. In 1706 he made a will naming children, John, Peter, Anne & Margaret. In 1713 Peter s/o Peter died 1709 made a deed: 1713-January 1 Lancaster Co VA: Deed of Peter Kilgore mentions land devised to him from his mother, Anne Reed d/o Alexander Reed (LW&T 22 Feb 1669). Anne Reed M: Peter Kilgore f/o this Peter. This Peter's wife's name was Elizabeth according to deed dated Jan 8, 1713. And a Robert Kilgore who was transported to Maryland in 1675. When I looked up the name in the Scottish Registry of names (I think that's what it was called). It gave the story of the foundling with the name Kilgore derived from the church-so I don't know what to think; but your info suggests that the name has been around for quite a while before 1644. Vickie ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas FWIW...My family and I were in Ireland and Scotland this summer. The following is the information we received from the Scots Heritage Society in Edinburgh. They told us that we were actually more often associated with the MacDuff Clan (note "associated with" not "a part of"). The Irish Heritage Center in County Wexford, IR also backed up the story that Kilgours arrived in County Ulster, Ireland from Scotland. We were also able to find the Kilgour family tartan. Jennifer Kilgore Jerome The tale of the name Kilgour begins with a family who lived in Kilgour, which is located near Falkland in the county of Fife. The surname Kilgore belongs to the category of habitation names, which are derived from pre-existing names for towns, villages, parishes, or farmsteads. The ancient family name Kilgour is believed to be originally of the Pictish race. Legend relates this founding race as being settled in North-Eastern Scotland, coming originally from the shores of Brittany about the 5th century B.C. Migrating, they sailed northward to Ireland where the Kings of Ireland refused them permission to land and settle, but they were allowed to settle in the eastern part of Scotland on the condition that all Pictish Kings marry an Irish Princess, thus assuring the Irish of a colony which would always be a part of the Irish royal court. According the the Venerable Bede, England's oldest historian born in 673 A.D., this Pictish settlement established a matriarchal hierarchy! which was unique in the annals of British history. One Pictish King shown in documented history was Nechtan, in about 724 A.D. There had been many who had fought valiantly at Hadrian's Wall against the Roman invasion many centuries before. Rivals of the Picts to the west were the Dalriadans or the Highlanders of the Western Isles, who were their constant foes in the battle for supremacy for power over all Scotland, known then as Alba, or Caledonia. Nechtan was finally expelled from Pictland by Alpin, half Dalriadan, half Pict, the result of a political marriage. Alpin's son, Kenneth MacAlpine son of Alpin, became the first recorded King of Scotland as we know it today. The Picts, compressed by the northern invasion of the Orcadian Vikings who penetrated as far south as Caithness, sometimes even to Edinburgh, were left with a territory on the eastern coast of Scotland from Inverness, south to Edinburgh. >From some of the many early records, researchers examined such records as the Inquisitio, 1120 A.D., the Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, The Ragman Rolls, the Chronicles of the Picts and Scots, and various other cartularies of parishes in Scotland. From these archives they produced the early records of the name Kilgour in Fifeshire where they were seated from very ancient times, some say well before the Norman Conquest and the arrival of Duke William at Hastings in 1066 A.D. The surname Kilgour was found in many different forms. In the archives researched the earliest spelling of the name bore little resemblance to the one now used but the genealogical connections have been established by experienced historical scholars. Although your name Kilgour occurred in many references, from time to time the surname was spelt Kilgour, Kilgore, and some of these versions are still used today. These changes in spelling frequently occurred, even between father and son. Preferences for spelling variations usually either came from a division of the family, or had religious reasons, or sometimes patriotic reasons. Scribes and church people frequently selected their own version of what they thought the spelling should be. The family name Kilgour emerged as that of a Scottish Clan or family in this territory. More specifically they developed from their original territories of Fifeshire where they held the territories of Kilgour near Falkland. The first on record was Sir Thomas Kilgour who was Chaplain of the Palace of Falkland. The family flourished on their estates and by the year 1600 another Sir Thomas Kilgour was Chief of the Clan. Alexander Kilgour , his successor had a son, David. John Kilgour was sacristar of the Aberdeen Cathedral. Henry Kilgour was Chief of the Clan territories in 1644. Notable amongst the Clan at this time was Kilgour of Fife. During the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, Scotland was ravaged by religious conflict. The newly found passionate fervour of Presbyterianism and the Church of Scotland rejected all who could not pass "The Test" of taking an oath of belief in the Church. Those failing the "Test" were frequently hanged in the High Street, or, more kindly, banished to the Colonies, to Australia, the Carolinas of the Islands. Meanwhile, the Roman Church still fought to retain its status. Many Clansmen were freely "encouraged" to migrate to Ireland. From 1603 to 1790, Scottish Clans and families were recruited from the English-Scotish border and north of Edinburgh to populate northern Ireland with Protestant stock faithful to the crown. Many heads of families migrated from Scotland to Ireland during this period. They became known as the "Scotch/Irish." The name Kilgour may well have arrived in Ireland early in the 17th century during the reign of James I of Britain, when six counties in Ulster were confiscated and settled by the Protestant Planters" or "Undertakers, as these settlers were known. The migration or banishment to the New World also continued, some went voluntarily from Ireland, but most come directly from Scotland, their home territories. Some also moved to the European continent. They sailed to the New World across the stormy Atlantic aboard the small sailing ships known as the "White Sails," ships such as the Hector, the Rambler or the Dove. These overcrowded ships sometimes spending two months at sea, were racked with disease, frequently landing with only 60% of their original passenger lists. In North America, early immigrants bearing the Kilgour surname Kilgour, or a spelling variation of this family name included Francis Kilgore settled in Virginia in 1761; Joseph and Martha Kilgour settled with their four children in Barstable Mass, in 1822; George Kilgour arrived in San Francisco in 1850. The coat of arms found for a bearer of the Kilgour surname did not include a motto. Under most heraldic authorities, a motto is an optional component of the coat of arms, and many families have chosen not to display a motto. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes there is a list of ships and passengers for the early pilgrims from 1608 to about 1635. I have a copy of those. Did you know there were 53 ships that came over before the Mayflower?? Charles R. (Bob) Shaw 2425 Sherwin Dr. Twinsburg Ohio 44087 fax 330 963 6858 cell 330 247 8543 phone 330 425 8819 [email protected] [email protected] www.engineeredspecialproducts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vickie Miller" <[email protected]> To: "Sherry Arnold" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:33 AM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 > In the time that these Kilgores or earlier ones came to America, it wasn't > required that ships maintain passenger lists. It was the discretion of > the ship's captain to keep them or not-this was especially true in > Southern ports. That's why passenger lists as a source are hit and miss. > Until they actually became required, most persons coming to America > weren't listed on any passenger lists or in any ports or any that survived > until today. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sherry Arnold<mailto:[email protected]> > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:09 PM > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 > > > Vickie, thank you for taking your time to catch us new comers up on past > research, I certainly appreciate it. > > Has anyone ever found any of these early Kilgores on a ship's passenger > list? > And do we have access to a record of departure lists from Ireland??? > > Sherry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gail Kilgore" > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:30 PM > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 > > > > Bob and others, > > > > Please remember that back when Addington wrote his book, documentation > was > > not as readily available as it is today. > > > > This book has been picked apart by this group searching the Kilgore > name > > and > > have proven the information invalid. > > > > This is what Vicky is trying to say. > > > > This is also why the wrong information keeps getting printed as valid > > solid > > documentation when, in fact, it is wrong. > > > > Not to start an argument but to try and settle the truth, Bob what do > you > > have as solid in hand documentation of what you have found rather than > > what > > some other researcher has said? > > > > Heck, I can say that my husband's line of Kilgore's were first cousins > of > > Mary Queen of Scots but saying it and proving it is totally two > different > > things. > > > > I can also say, any new shred of information found on any of the lines > > finds > > it way to this list, so this group of researchers can almost call their > > work > > the "Gospel". > > > > Gail > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

As long as we're on the subject of the Charles & Robert Kilgore lines; I thought I'd let you know that there is a new supposed lineage out there that's been posted to Rootsweb and is starting to make the rounds. It goes: Robert Kilgore born c1716 Christening 18 Mar 1716 Kilmany, Fife, Scotland Marriage Margaret Spencer b c1721 or 2 Apr 1721 in Echt, Aberdeen, Scotland Children: Elizabeth Kilgore b. c1743 Thomas Kilgore b. c1744 Charles Kilgore b. 18 Jan 1744 Hiram Kilgore b. c1745 Robert Kilgore b. c1746 Drumoak, Aberdeen, Scotland William Kilgore b.c1747 James Kilgore b. c1748 Source listed is LDS: Ancestral File #: 10TG-D1S I encountered this about a year ago and now after checking up on it again-I see there are several more entries with this info-so it's really starting to get around. I don't remember who first posted it-but I wrote that person and I asked them to please revise this info as there are errors -but to no avail. I pointed out that Charles Kilgore's birth date according to his son's Bible records was 1740. While I haven't proved it, Robert Kilgore shows every indication of having been born prior to 1740. Look at the math-Charles Kilgore who married Avarilla Simpson stated that he was born 1764 or 1764 (he couldn't remember which-he was also illiterate). He is believed and accepted to be the son of Robert & Winnie Clayton Kilgore although it hasn't been documented. This would mean that Robert was all of 17 or 18 when Charles was born-this simply doesn't work. Most of the additional names are obviously meant to be the so-called 5 Kilgore brothers -plus one. The William Kilgore referred to here is probably the William Kilgore who was born c1726 and was listed in 1755 with a wife and 3 children in Augusta District Georgia. I pointed this out too-also the fact that no proof has ever been found to document that James, William, Robert, Hiram & Charles were brothers. This lineage has this Robert Kilgore born 1716 as the son of John Kilgore who died in 1731 Chester Co PA-this would be the John Kilgore who died virtually a penniless pauper and was not the father of James Kilgore who married Elizabeth Jack. This then ties into the James Kilgore line of both PA & Scotland-that this Robert was James of PA's brother and that James was the s/o John who died in 1731 and that John was the s/o James-all of which has been proven false-so here we go again. Amazing how persistent this stuff is!!! I just looked at another of these entries and it lists Robert, Charles, Elizabeth, Thomas, Hiram, William, Ralph & James (some with different birth dates now) and they have my Charles listed as ADOPTED!!!! All are sons of Robert & Margaret Spencer Kilgore and he's the son of John Kilgore & Elspeth Howeson and though this one doesn't list the date of death for John-this is the same John others list as dying in Chester Co PA in 1731.

I don't know about all the southern bound ships, but the ones that landed in Savannah apparently had detailed records. The problem with the Savannah records is that you must go to Savannah to see them. They haven't been copied for the Georgia archives and they are not online. The Savannah authorities want tourist. They apparently have no interest in preserving history. Think of the potential loss if a Hurricane Hugo hits them dead on? Or a fire, like the ones that have destroyed so many of our court houses. It really is absurd in this day and age that they would even consider this policy. And although I have relatives there I need to research, I have delayed going. I really hate to encourage their behavior. If you have tried documenting poor people or Indians, then you know how nearly impossible it is. A professor in Canada gave me an idea. There was virtually nothing about her ancestor who was a Tory private in the American Revolution. So she researched his commanding officer, who was a famous Tory spy. She assumed her ancestor was tagging along. So if I can track them to a group of people, I do a history of that group. Sometimes that is the best you can do. I was asked to write a family history for a county history book. Honestly, I fudged it a bit. For example, I did not include any of my paternal half siblings that have been mean to sweet little ole me. And as for where my ancestor came from... I wrote, "He was dropped off by the mother ship shortly after 1850..." [See, there is no real need for documentation!] Cousin Dennie //

Well, as I said-it's hit or miss. I'm surprised some local historical chapter hasn't begun transcribing those lists. If they publish them, they can make some money for their local societies. That's surprising. That's a good idea about the Tory private. Thanks to the British burning the War Office-so many of the southern Rev. War records were lost so much invaluable info. Sigh. That was a good one about the mother ship. Loved it. Vickie ----- Original Message ----- From: D Rennow<mailto:[email protected]> To: Kilgore<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:53 AM Subject: [KILGORE] ship documentation I don't know about all the southern bound ships, but the ones that landed in Savannah apparently had detailed records. The problem with the Savannah records is that you must go to Savannah to see them. They haven't been copied for the Georgia archives and they are not online. The Savannah authorities want tourist. They apparently have no interest in preserving history. Think of the potential loss if a Hurricane Hugo hits them dead on? Or a fire, like the ones that have destroyed so many of our court houses. It really is absurd in this day and age that they would even consider this policy. And although I have relatives there I need to research, I have delayed going. I really hate to encourage their behavior. If you have tried documenting poor people or Indians, then you know how nearly impossible it is. A professor in Canada gave me an idea. There was virtually nothing about her ancestor who was a Tory private in the American Revolution. So she researched his commanding officer, who was a famous Tory spy. She assumed her ancestor was tagging along. So if I can track them to a group of people, I do a history of that group. Sometimes that is the best you can do. I was asked to write a family history for a county history book. Honestly, I fudged it a bit. For example, I did not include any of my paternal half siblings that have been mean to sweet little ole me. And as for where my ancestor came from... I wrote, "He was dropped off by the mother ship shortly after 1850..." [See, there is no real need for documentation!] Cousin Dennie // ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Bob wrote: I am trying to trace the linage backwards from Lord Douglas Kilgore 1650-1720. His wife was Margaret Low? Okay, as they say in the movies-show me the money. Show me a primary source that this man actually lived. Show me a deed record, tax record, marriage record, court record, birth register, death register, census, church record or any other type of primary source in Scotland that this man lived. Please do not show me anything based on the presumptions of the book "Charles Kilgore of King's Mountain" -that is not a primary source and neither Addington nor G. W. Kilgore actually traced the family step by step back to any Kilgore in either Ireland or Scotland. Do not show me any submitted information to either the LDS or Rootsweb unless it provides an actual primary source about this man. If you can do that-then I'll accept that there was a man named Lord Douglas Kilgore. I'm sorry-but I like my facts. Sincerely, Vickie

The information you speak of was the letter printed in the Thompson Journals: 1858-March 5 Columbia Co AR:Three Creeks Ark: Hon David Kilgore, Dear Sir: recd a note from Hon. E. A. Warrne from yourself to him making inquiries for the purpose of ascertaining whether we were of the same family. I know that my great grandfather came from Ireland about 200 years ago with four sons and settled in Penna or Maryland. The names of his sons were Ralph, William, Charles and Thomas. The last name was my grandfather who settled in an early day in North Carolina, from whence he, in company with my father, then quite a youth, removed to Tennessee, immediately after the Revolutionary War. Tennessee was then an unbroken wilderness and they were forced to build and live in a fort as a protection aginst the Indians. This fort was called Killgore's Station and was situated near where Nashville now stands. My grandfather died since my recollection at the advance age of 110 years. My fathers name was also Thomas.My father had three brothers, all of whom were actively engaged in the Revolutionary War and one of them was shot through at the battle of Kings Mountain. If you are a relative to us, you will have no cause to blush on account of those four then young men as they all fought and shed their blood freely in battling for the liberty we now enjoy. We have relations in Indiana and Kentucky. I remember having seen at my father's house in Tennessee, many years ago, four men of our name whose given names were John, Huey, David and Charles. I have heard my father speak of an Obed Kilgore who was a relation. Where he lived I do not know. The name James was a common one in our family. I recollect hearing my grandfather say that all of the names were related, which must necessarily be true according to the legend. I think sir, we have the right to be proud of the name as I have never yet seen it associated with crime or infamy. So may it ver be. I enclose you a short obituary notice of my father who recently died at the age of 94 years, I close sir! With the request that you will let me know the history of your immediate family which I will take as a great favor. Respectfully yours, etc. G. L. Kilgore -Thompson Journals V.20 p150-152 (re:Lee Bartos internet contact) This letter was written by Gabriel Lea Kilgore in 1858. He was the son of Thomas Kilgore & Phoebe Lea and named after his uncle Phoebe's brother Gabriel Lea. When Lee Bartos made contact (she's a descendant of these Kilgores) she provided the letter and it then made the rounds of the list. I think Jerry thought he was on to something and kind of promised a breakthrough using the letter and then it kind of fizzled-and he didn't really get back to it. I think he looked at this and he knew it was important and that the answer is probably staring us in the face-but we can't see the forest for the trees so to speak. I think we need to think outside the box and put aside our preconceived notions and that's a little hard to do. I know everytime I look at it-I still have the 5 Kilgore brothers in the back of my mind and I view it from that point of view-even though I don't think that the 5 men listed on G. W. Kilgore's list were brothers-I do believe that there were some brothers somewhere-too many of these stories have a tradition of brothers. I do take somewhat more stock in this letter than anything that I consider "tainted" by G. W. Kilgore's presumptions (no offense). This letter predates that. ----- Original Message ----- From: D Rennow<mailto:[email protected]> To: Kilgore<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 8:36 PM Subject: [KILGORE] Documentation Before Jerry died there was talk of a mysterious piece of documention that would link the PA and VA Kilgores. Then more talk of documenting showing the original Kilgores date of arrival. Did anyone ever see either of them? I prefer documented sources, although the old stories can be interesting. For example: In the mid 1900s some Hardwicks hired a genealogist to track their family in KY. He came back with this story. Mary Ann "Polly" Hardwick was born in 1813 in England in the Hardwick castle. She was a princess. As a teenager she became pregnant. Her family was so embarrassed that they shipped her off to the new world. She made her way to Pulaski County KY where she gave birth to a baby boy in 1828. She married a man with the same last name, Hardwick, probably a distant cousin, and they had four children. The truth was this. John and Agness Hardwick, living in KY, had at least 5 children, one being Mary. Then the parents disappeared or died. Two of the kids were taken by wagon to IN as servants. Mary and one of her sisters became prostitutes. She never married. She lived until 1881 and was totally blind in her old age. So how do I know she was a prostitute? One of her great granddaughters was told that by her mother. AND many years ago I spoke with two very old women in the Pulaski County Historical Society library who actually knew the people she lived with in her old age. It was an accepted fact that she had been a prostitute. Personally, I have to respect the fact that the kids all survived. Can you imagine being an orphan in the wilds of KY in the 1820s? I was impressed that she made it at all. And then she also had to take care of her son. Tough and resourceful. What a woman. I am proud to be her descendant and I am glad to know the truth. Cousin Dennie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In the time that these Kilgores or earlier ones came to America, it wasn't required that ships maintain passenger lists. It was the discretion of the ship's captain to keep them or not-this was especially true in Southern ports. That's why passenger lists as a source are hit and miss. Until they actually became required, most persons coming to America weren't listed on any passenger lists or in any ports or any that survived until today. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sherry Arnold<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 Vickie, thank you for taking your time to catch us new comers up on past research, I certainly appreciate it. Has anyone ever found any of these early Kilgores on a ship's passenger list? And do we have access to a record of departure lists from Ireland??? Sherry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail Kilgore" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] part 3 > Bob and others, > > Please remember that back when Addington wrote his book, documentation was > not as readily available as it is today. > > This book has been picked apart by this group searching the Kilgore name > and > have proven the information invalid. > > This is what Vicky is trying to say. > > This is also why the wrong information keeps getting printed as valid > solid > documentation when, in fact, it is wrong. > > Not to start an argument but to try and settle the truth, Bob what do you > have as solid in hand documentation of what you have found rather than > what > some other researcher has said? > > Heck, I can say that my husband's line of Kilgore's were first cousins of > Mary Queen of Scots but saying it and proving it is totally two different > things. > > I can also say, any new shred of information found on any of the lines > finds > it way to this list, so this group of researchers can almost call their > work > the "Gospel". > > Gail > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Before Jerry died there was talk of a mysterious piece of documention that would link the PA and VA Kilgores. Then more talk of documenting showing the original Kilgores date of arrival. Did anyone ever see either of them? I prefer documented sources, although the old stories can be interesting. For example: In the mid 1900s some Hardwicks hired a genealogist to track their family in KY. He came back with this story. Mary Ann "Polly" Hardwick was born in 1813 in England in the Hardwick castle. She was a princess. As a teenager she became pregnant. Her family was so embarrassed that they shipped her off to the new world. She made her way to Pulaski County KY where she gave birth to a baby boy in 1828. She married a man with the same last name, Hardwick, probably a distant cousin, and they had four children. The truth was this. John and Agness Hardwick, living in KY, had at least 5 children, one being Mary. Then the parents disappeared or died. Two of the kids were taken by wagon to IN as servants. Mary and one of her sisters became prostitutes. She never married. She lived until 1881 and was totally blind in her old age. So how do I know she was a prostitute? One of her great granddaughters was told that by her mother. AND many years ago I spoke with two very old women in the Pulaski County Historical Society library who actually knew the people she lived with in her old age. It was an accepted fact that she had been a prostitute. Personally, I have to respect the fact that the kids all survived. Can you imagine being an orphan in the wilds of KY in the 1820s? I was impressed that she made it at all. And then she also had to take care of her son. Tough and resourceful. What a woman. I am proud to be her descendant and I am glad to know the truth. Cousin Dennie

I didn't see it Dennie unless it was trying to figure out how pauper John Kilgore of Chester Co. fit into the puzzle but as far as connecting the north and south Kilgore's.. I didn't read anything. Gail On 9/8/08, D Rennow <[email protected]> wrote: > > Before Jerry died there was talk of a mysterious piece of documention > that would link the PA and VA Kilgores. Then more talk of documenting > showing the original Kilgores date of arrival. Did anyone ever see > either of them? > > I prefer documented sources, although the old stories can be interesting. > > For example: > > In the mid 1900s some Hardwicks hired a genealogist to track their > family in KY. He came back with this story. Mary Ann "Polly" Hardwick > was born in 1813 in England in the Hardwick castle. She was a > princess. As a teenager she became pregnant. Her family was so > embarrassed that they shipped her off to the new world. She made her > way to Pulaski County KY where she gave birth to a baby boy in 1828. > She married a man with the same last name, Hardwick, probably a distant > cousin, and they had four children. > > The truth was this. John and Agness Hardwick, living in KY, had at > least 5 children, one being Mary. Then the parents disappeared or > died. Two of the kids were taken by wagon to IN as servants. Mary and > one of her sisters became prostitutes. She never married. She lived > until 1881 and was totally blind in her old age. > > So how do I know she was a prostitute? One of her great granddaughters > was told that by her mother. AND many years ago I spoke with two very > old women in the Pulaski County Historical Society library who actually > knew the people she lived with in her old age. It was an accepted fact > that she had been a prostitute. > > Personally, I have to respect the fact that the kids all survived. Can > you imagine being an orphan in the wilds of KY in the 1820s? I was > impressed that she made it at all. And then she also had to take care > of her son. Tough and resourceful. What a woman. I am proud to be > her descendant and I am glad to know the truth. > > Cousin Dennie > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >