Were you accepting the story or questioning it as you read? My guess is questioning, thus the lightening. It was a warning. Don't question Randy! Gail you must be careful. Randy is very powerful. Gail Kilgore wrote: > In reply to your email Dennie, I got as far as the elephant poop and a bolt > of lightening hit and knocked out the power. I mean I saw fire dancing > outside. That puppy hit real close by. > > I have two poodles who are not leaving my side. Was that bolt of lightening > a sign??? ;-))) > > It is not wonder that things are so messed up with these interesting story > tellers. > > Gail > > > On 9/9/08, D Rennow <[email protected]> wrote: > >> OK I didn't want to reveal this, as some people are very sensitive and >> get real defensive when faced with the truth. So instead of all that, >> just be glad that Randy shared his research with me. Thank you Randy. >> You're a good man. >> >> In the mid 1700's, in what is now Poland, thirteen odd men escaped from >> the central insane asylum. They joined a circus, which traveled across >> Europe. After a long year, three of the men decided they had had enough >> of scooping elephant poop. Upon reaching the coast, they joined a band >> of pirates, specifically the Dread Pirate Robert. [Yes, it was the same >> Pirate Robert made famous by the Princess Bride movie.] >> >> One of the insane pirates was not happy. He complained, "If I have to >> experience any more gore, I'll kill myself." No need said Pirate >> Robert. Get off my ship. Then Robert kicked him over board. Splash. >> >> He swam to shore past hungry sharks. Even though he was covered in >> blood, he smelled so bad that they rejected him as lunch. Apparently, >> he had not bathed in years. >> >> A young woman saw him lying on the beach. She asked him his name. He >> mumbled something about gore, kill, gore, blood, kill--gore, pirate, >> Robert, kill... She asked, "You are Robert Kilgore?" He moaned which >> she took as an affirmation. From then on the insane pirate, elephant >> attendant, Franco Subalasky, was known as Robert Kilgore. >> >> He settled in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Yes, he had family in both >> places. He didn't do it on purpose. Although undiagnosed as such, he >> obviously suffered from multi personality disorder. Also one >> personality thought he was born 30 years after the other, which confused >> friends and family. >> >> His Virginia family consisted of 5 sons. They were all big talkers and >> even the ones who slept through the Revolution, boasted of fighting at >> Kings Mountain. Once the emails were sent, it was accepted as fact. >> >> Any questions? >> >> Cousin Dennie >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

The story that Betsy Culbertson related had to do with the aftermath of the Battle of King's Mountain-when her mother, Mary Kilgore then 13 accompanied her mother Martha Kilgore to the battlefield and recovered the wounded Charles Kilgore. This is the story she told-no Kilgore brothers just how her mother camped out at night in great fear of the Indians and how they brought Mary's father, Charles Kilgore, wounded in battle home. This is the version printed in "Charles Kilgore of King's Mountain". ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail Kilgore<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers This is not our line but again, isn't this hearsay? She had to hear it from someone and added her own words. It is not documented. Is anyone else interested in doing DNA for the Kilgore's? Gail On 9/9/08, Bob Shaw <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Vickie, > the 5 brother story was confirmed by ms Cuthberton in an interview to a > Kilgore ancestor of John Evans. > > Charles R. (Bob) Shaw > 2425 Sherwin Dr. > Twinsburg Ohio 44087 > fax 330 963 6858 > cell 330 247 8543 > phone 330 425 8819 > s[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > www.engineeredspecialproducts.com<http://www.engineeredspecialproducts.com/> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vickie Miller" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:43 PM > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > > > > At this time, the parents of Robert Kilgore & Winnie Clayton are > > unknown-or I should say unproved. It's believed he was the s/o the > Robert > > Kilgore listed on 1750, 1751 & 1755 tax list in Orange Co NC as well as > > deeds and a couple of court records there-wife unknown. Researchers of > > the Douglas family haven't found a connection between Kilgores and the > > Douglas's referred to as the "Black Douglas" or any earlier Douglas'. > > This is based on the foundling story that Judge G. W. Kilgore obtained > > when he wrote to the Scottish Historical Society asking about the Kilgore > > name. > > Jennifer Jerome shows that according to her research the Kilgore name as > a > > sept is connected to MacDuff family-as you must have seen when you read > > her message-thanks again Jennifer. > > > > Note: We have not yet directly linked our American Kilgores with any in > > either Scotland or Ireland-please do not think that the Robert Kilgore > > married 1743 Margaret Spence info is correct-it is not!! It would seem > > likely that our Kilgores were linked to those in County Fife-as that > seems > > to be the strongest concentration of Kilgores in Scotland-but no direct > > link has been made-and you must draw your own conclusions. > > Vickie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Foley, James D (Penske)<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3Cmailto:[email protected]>> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > > > > > > Ok now I am totally lost! I am from Robert and winney through Lewis > > green and Easter Kilgore so what is the real line??? > > I have also seen Kilgore as a sept of Douglas and of Mcduff I would like > > to know just what my family line is.thank you > > Jim Foley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3Cmailto:[email protected]>> > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > On Behalf Of Vickie Miller > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:45 PM > > To: Kilgore > > Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > > > > I strongly believe that there is something to the story of the Kilgore > > brothers. Both the Russell Co VA Kilgores and the Robertson Co TN > > Kilgores have an oral tradition of Kilgore brothers. The fact that both > > lines have a tradition of brothers does support the supposition that the > > two lines were somehow closely related-we just haven't been able to > > determine quite how. I'm more inclined to go with the Robertson Co TN > > tradition as closer to fact than G. W. Kilgores supposition; which is > > precisely what I think his was at least in regards to their identity. > > I think that bearing in mind that there was a tradition of brothers in > > G. W. Kilgore's line, he was on the lookout for brothers and when he > > came across the book that listed a roster of soldiers who served at > > King's Mountain; he saw 5 men listed with the name Kilgore and said > > "Bingo" or "Eureka" or "Hallelujah" or whatever "I've found them -these > > must be the brothers our family history speak of." He then listed them > > as ! > > brothers and we've contended with those names since; which means to > > some extent those of us concerned with these lines keep trying to put > > them together and slice and dice to make things work-when they might not > > necessarily fit. > > > > When it comes to "family tradition", I always keep in mind what I read > > in a book about beginning genealogy written by an accredited genealogist > > (no I don't remember his name or his book-just that I read it about 15 > > years ago)-be wary of "family history & traditions" because facts change > > with each telling and re-telling of the story. Use them as > > guidelines-absolutely-but don't accept them as gospel truth until or > > unless you can independently verify them and better yet-document them. > > > > > > Due to space considerations-I'll continue this on another email Vickie > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3Cmailto:[email protected].com>> with > > the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3Cmailto:[email protected]>> with > the > > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm not trying to combine lines-just sort things out; but instead of clearing things up-I seem to only be muddying the waters more. I think I've thrown too many names at you all at once and you can't sort them out and I apologize for that-also you will not let go of the information in "Charles Kilgore of King's Mountain" or the Kilgore Book as gospel. If you only knew how hard we worked to sort out the old Charles & Winnie mess-you'd understand that while "Charles Kilgore of King's Mountain" is a great resource for the descendants of Robert Kilgore & Jane Porter, Charles Kilgore & Avarilla Simpson, Hiram Kilgore and Rebecca Renfro, William Kilgore and Virginia Osborne, & Ralph Kilgore and Elizabeth Gray (all presumed children of Robert & Winnie-although only Robert & Hiram are actually documented) as well as Mary Kilgore & James Culbertson (Mary d/o Charles & Martha NOT McIlhaney Kilgore) because it documents their lines from as late as Hugh Addington was able to take them (up to 1935) back to these people-the info he had about Charles Kilgore was in fact large misinformation-which means that he and his uncle Judge G. W. Kilgore are not considered reliable sources for information. I call into question, Judge G. W. Kilgore's assertion that the 5 Kilgore men listed in his source were brothers. The letter written in 1858 which predates Judge Kilgore's "research" clearly casts doubt on this premise. It was Thomas Kilgore born 1759 Orange Co NC who was at the battle of King's Mountain-it was him who lost a brother there and seems to have had a brother shot through. We know that this Thomas was not the b/o Charles Kilgore (D:1823) who was also present at the battle-therefore, it would appear that it was Judge Kilgore's assumption that the men listed in the book were brothers and not just 5 men named Kilgore who happened to be at the same place at the same time and who appeared on a roster and that roster was published in the book that Judge Kilgore found-although he neglected to list either it's title or it's author. I don't refute that there were Kilgore brothers in early America-both lines (Thomas D:1822 and Russell Co VA Kilgores) have a strong tradition about early Kilgore brothers-I just think that when Judge Kilgore read the names of the 5 Kilgore in the book-he jumped to the conclusion that he'd found those long-lost brothers of the family tradition. Sincerely, Vickie ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Shaw<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] From the commander... What have I started? I thought I asked a simple question. If you think this is confusing consider my Bartlett ancestry. There were 12 different lines from across the pond. Jim Bartlett did the dna to decipher the 12 lines. My guess is that you are trying to combine too many different lines. Some of my info is from John Evans who interviewed Ms Cuthberton before she died. Charles R. (Bob) Shaw 2425 Sherwin Dr. Twinsburg Ohio 44087 fax 330 963 6858 cell 330 247 8543 phone 330 425 8819 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> www.engineeredspecialproducts.com<http://www.engineeredspecialproducts.com/> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail Kilgore" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] From the commander... > Well Randy, if nothing else you ALWAYS put a smile on our faces and make > us > stop and think. > > You are a treasure and a keeper!! > > Gail > > > On 9/9/08, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> ...of the pickle flute brigade, that is. >> >> Wow, we haven't seen this kind of emailing since the early days, when >> Jerry >> had to referee while the various lines duked it out online...while >> maintaining >> a level of jocularity, familiarity and familial concern not experienced >> on >> most such lists. >> >> I, of course, was the resident fruitcake, launching pickle flute >> brigades, >> port-a-potty-singing groups, tin foil howls at the moon, etc. >> >> Meanwhile, a tiny band of secret genealogists infiltrated the group and >> steered us away from the myths and lore to the sturdy feel of >> paper proofs. What >> a service they render(ed); nailing down what could be known for certain >> so >> that the areas where we have to guess (5 brothers or 3?) could be >> guessed >> at >> cordially but without planting flags of certainty on because the paper >> didn't >> prove it. >> >> For my money, if Vickie says it, then even the DAR is wrong if they >> contradict her, and Dennie is a close second. And while I'm at it, I >> guess I should >> acknowledge, too, that the same fear I had of Jerry when he spoke >> now rests >> with Gail. She's the boss of me and this list too; she has the innate >> ability >> to tell me when to kid and when to be quiet without making me pout, >> secrets >> I'm willing to pay her dearly not to sell to my wife! >> >> At any rate, this ramble does have a point. One day while researching >> one of >> my books, I got bored at the Boston library and started hunting down >> references to the Kilgores at King's Mountain. I found one book that >> was listed as >> no longer in print, but which was available in microfiche; it was >> a narrative >> of King's Mountain and Cowpens. That book made reference to three >> Kilgores >> only at King's Mountain, serving with John Sevier, and then mentioned >> only >> one Kilgore at Cowpens. I should hurry up and add that the book only >> mentioned >> individuals who had committed a notable act, so it wasn't a roster, >> merely >> a >> narrative. It made no reference to relationships between the Kilgores >> at >> all. Now here's the sorry news: I've since moved three times and the >> notes I >> took that day (copied the microfiche) are buried somewhere in boxes in >> the >> basement, so what I just told you is hearsay. I'll find it someday, I'm >> sure, >> though with my health it's not likely to be soon. That said, it would >> probably >> be easier for me to trek back to the Boston library again. >> >> I also remember seeing convincing arguments when Jerry was with us >> against >> the 5 brothers theory, and the only place I've ever seen anyone say there >> were >> 5 Kilgores at King's Mountain was on this list in reference to the >> now-proven-as-best-guesses book that judge did. I was also once told by >> an >> Irish >> researcher that Kilgore in Ireland is MacGillivray, and that that >> strain were >> really transplanted Scots...and that the Kilgore name comes from words >> that mean >> "people who live by the woods where goats are kept." I have no reason >> to >> give what they told me any credibility at all, but the wide range >> of stories >> makes me happy for the Vickie and Dennie's of the world; they make it >> okay >> for >> writers like me to drift off into dreamland...(since Randall means >> "wolf", >> then that must make me the wolf who's hovering around the people who >> live >> by the >> woods where goats are kept." >> >> By the way, literally right after I typed this "goats" thing, DHL >> delivered >> the very first copy of my book off the press!! Yippee! In two weeks, >> you >> can find it at Target, Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc. It's already up at >> Amazon.com. Oops, that was off-topic again... >> >> Bob, we're glad to have new blood; you'll find this the wildest group of >> cousin-chasers anywhere in genealogy, and as long as you can laugh (at us >> AND >> yourself) you'll be glad you joined. The archives are incredibly >> stuffed with >> accurate info, and if you start your search by using these four >> terms, you'll >> find more than you can ever find elsewhere on the Kilgores: "vickie" >> "dennie" "gail" "jerry". >> >> Always remember, though, that for the really important matters, everyone >> on >> this board always puts their purple boxers on, covers their left fingers >> in >> tin foil, and emails the list looking for me. I'm known to the >> long-termers as >> Wikimiki, which is Cherokee for handsome-dude-who-is-always-right. >> >> The-still-not-all-there-cousin, >> Randy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion >> blog, >> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. >> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014>) >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Vickie, the 5 brother story was confirmed by ms Cuthberton in an interview to a Kilgore ancestor of John Evans. Charles R. (Bob) Shaw 2425 Sherwin Dr. Twinsburg Ohio 44087 fax 330 963 6858 cell 330 247 8543 phone 330 425 8819 [email protected] [email protected] www.engineeredspecialproducts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vickie Miller" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:43 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > At this time, the parents of Robert Kilgore & Winnie Clayton are > unknown-or I should say unproved. It's believed he was the s/o the Robert > Kilgore listed on 1750, 1751 & 1755 tax list in Orange Co NC as well as > deeds and a couple of court records there-wife unknown. Researchers of > the Douglas family haven't found a connection between Kilgores and the > Douglas's referred to as the "Black Douglas" or any earlier Douglas'. > This is based on the foundling story that Judge G. W. Kilgore obtained > when he wrote to the Scottish Historical Society asking about the Kilgore > name. > Jennifer Jerome shows that according to her research the Kilgore name as a > sept is connected to MacDuff family-as you must have seen when you read > her message-thanks again Jennifer. > > Note: We have not yet directly linked our American Kilgores with any in > either Scotland or Ireland-please do not think that the Robert Kilgore > married 1743 Margaret Spence info is correct-it is not!! It would seem > likely that our Kilgores were linked to those in County Fife-as that seems > to be the strongest concentration of Kilgores in Scotland-but no direct > link has been made-and you must draw your own conclusions. > Vickie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Foley, James D (Penske)<mailto:[email protected]> > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:13 PM > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > > > Ok now I am totally lost! I am from Robert and winney through Lewis > green and Easter Kilgore so what is the real line??? > I have also seen Kilgore as a sept of Douglas and of Mcduff I would like > to know just what my family line is.thank you > Jim Foley > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Vickie Miller > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:45 PM > To: Kilgore > Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > > I strongly believe that there is something to the story of the Kilgore > brothers. Both the Russell Co VA Kilgores and the Robertson Co TN > Kilgores have an oral tradition of Kilgore brothers. The fact that both > lines have a tradition of brothers does support the supposition that the > two lines were somehow closely related-we just haven't been able to > determine quite how. I'm more inclined to go with the Robertson Co TN > tradition as closer to fact than G. W. Kilgores supposition; which is > precisely what I think his was at least in regards to their identity. > I think that bearing in mind that there was a tradition of brothers in > G. W. Kilgore's line, he was on the lookout for brothers and when he > came across the book that listed a roster of soldiers who served at > King's Mountain; he saw 5 men listed with the name Kilgore and said > "Bingo" or "Eureka" or "Hallelujah" or whatever "I've found them -these > must be the brothers our family history speak of." He then listed them > as ! > brothers and we've contended with those names since; which means to > some extent those of us concerned with these lines keep trying to put > them together and slice and dice to make things work-when they might not > necessarily fit. > > When it comes to "family tradition", I always keep in mind what I read > in a book about beginning genealogy written by an accredited genealogist > (no I don't remember his name or his book-just that I read it about 15 > years ago)-be wary of "family history & traditions" because facts change > with each telling and re-telling of the story. Use them as > guidelines-absolutely-but don't accept them as gospel truth until or > unless you can independently verify them and better yet-document them. > > > Due to space considerations-I'll continue this on another email Vickie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

What have I started? I thought I asked a simple question. If you think this is confusing consider my Bartlett ancestry. There were 12 different lines from across the pond. Jim Bartlett did the dna to decipher the 12 lines. My guess is that you are trying to combine too many different lines. Some of my info is from John Evans who interviewed Ms Cuthberton before she died. Charles R. (Bob) Shaw 2425 Sherwin Dr. Twinsburg Ohio 44087 fax 330 963 6858 cell 330 247 8543 phone 330 425 8819 [email protected] [email protected] www.engineeredspecialproducts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gail Kilgore" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] From the commander... > Well Randy, if nothing else you ALWAYS put a smile on our faces and make > us > stop and think. > > You are a treasure and a keeper!! > > Gail > > > On 9/9/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> ...of the pickle flute brigade, that is. >> >> Wow, we haven't seen this kind of emailing since the early days, when >> Jerry >> had to referee while the various lines duked it out online...while >> maintaining >> a level of jocularity, familiarity and familial concern not experienced >> on >> most such lists. >> >> I, of course, was the resident fruitcake, launching pickle flute >> brigades, >> port-a-potty-singing groups, tin foil howls at the moon, etc. >> >> Meanwhile, a tiny band of secret genealogists infiltrated the group and >> steered us away from the myths and lore to the sturdy feel of >> paper proofs. What >> a service they render(ed); nailing down what could be known for certain >> so >> that the areas where we have to guess (5 brothers or 3?) could be >> guessed >> at >> cordially but without planting flags of certainty on because the paper >> didn't >> prove it. >> >> For my money, if Vickie says it, then even the DAR is wrong if they >> contradict her, and Dennie is a close second. And while I'm at it, I >> guess I should >> acknowledge, too, that the same fear I had of Jerry when he spoke >> now rests >> with Gail. She's the boss of me and this list too; she has the innate >> ability >> to tell me when to kid and when to be quiet without making me pout, >> secrets >> I'm willing to pay her dearly not to sell to my wife! >> >> At any rate, this ramble does have a point. One day while researching >> one of >> my books, I got bored at the Boston library and started hunting down >> references to the Kilgores at King's Mountain. I found one book that >> was listed as >> no longer in print, but which was available in microfiche; it was >> a narrative >> of King's Mountain and Cowpens. That book made reference to three >> Kilgores >> only at King's Mountain, serving with John Sevier, and then mentioned >> only >> one Kilgore at Cowpens. I should hurry up and add that the book only >> mentioned >> individuals who had committed a notable act, so it wasn't a roster, >> merely >> a >> narrative. It made no reference to relationships between the Kilgores >> at >> all. Now here's the sorry news: I've since moved three times and the >> notes I >> took that day (copied the microfiche) are buried somewhere in boxes in >> the >> basement, so what I just told you is hearsay. I'll find it someday, I'm >> sure, >> though with my health it's not likely to be soon. That said, it would >> probably >> be easier for me to trek back to the Boston library again. >> >> I also remember seeing convincing arguments when Jerry was with us >> against >> the 5 brothers theory, and the only place I've ever seen anyone say there >> were >> 5 Kilgores at King's Mountain was on this list in reference to the >> now-proven-as-best-guesses book that judge did. I was also once told by >> an >> Irish >> researcher that Kilgore in Ireland is MacGillivray, and that that >> strain were >> really transplanted Scots...and that the Kilgore name comes from words >> that mean >> "people who live by the woods where goats are kept." I have no reason >> to >> give what they told me any credibility at all, but the wide range >> of stories >> makes me happy for the Vickie and Dennie's of the world; they make it >> okay >> for >> writers like me to drift off into dreamland...(since Randall means >> "wolf", >> then that must make me the wolf who's hovering around the people who >> live >> by the >> woods where goats are kept." >> >> By the way, literally right after I typed this "goats" thing, DHL >> delivered >> the very first copy of my book off the press!! Yippee! In two weeks, >> you >> can find it at Target, Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc. It's already up at >> Amazon.com. Oops, that was off-topic again... >> >> Bob, we're glad to have new blood; you'll find this the wildest group of >> cousin-chasers anywhere in genealogy, and as long as you can laugh (at us >> AND >> yourself) you'll be glad you joined. The archives are incredibly >> stuffed with >> accurate info, and if you start your search by using these four >> terms, you'll >> find more than you can ever find elsewhere on the Kilgores: "vickie" >> "dennie" "gail" "jerry". >> >> Always remember, though, that for the really important matters, everyone >> on >> this board always puts their purple boxers on, covers their left fingers >> in >> tin foil, and emails the list looking for me. I'm known to the >> long-termers as >> Wikimiki, which is Cherokee for handsome-dude-who-is-always-right. >> >> The-still-not-all-there-cousin, >> Randy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion >> blog, >> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. >> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

OK I didn't want to reveal this, as some people are very sensitive and get real defensive when faced with the truth. So instead of all that, just be glad that Randy shared his research with me. Thank you Randy. You're a good man. In the mid 1700's, in what is now Poland, thirteen odd men escaped from the central insane asylum. They joined a circus, which traveled across Europe. After a long year, three of the men decided they had had enough of scooping elephant poop. Upon reaching the coast, they joined a band of pirates, specifically the Dread Pirate Robert. [Yes, it was the same Pirate Robert made famous by the Princess Bride movie.] One of the insane pirates was not happy. He complained, "If I have to experience any more gore, I'll kill myself." No need said Pirate Robert. Get off my ship. Then Robert kicked him over board. Splash. He swam to shore past hungry sharks. Even though he was covered in blood, he smelled so bad that they rejected him as lunch. Apparently, he had not bathed in years. A young woman saw him lying on the beach. She asked him his name. He mumbled something about gore, kill, gore, blood, kill--gore, pirate, Robert, kill... She asked, "You are Robert Kilgore?" He moaned which she took as an affirmation. From then on the insane pirate, elephant attendant, Franco Subalasky, was known as Robert Kilgore. He settled in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Yes, he had family in both places. He didn't do it on purpose. Although undiagnosed as such, he obviously suffered from multi personality disorder. Also one personality thought he was born 30 years after the other, which confused friends and family. His Virginia family consisted of 5 sons. They were all big talkers and even the ones who slept through the Revolution, boasted of fighting at Kings Mountain. Once the emails were sent, it was accepted as fact. Any questions? Cousin Dennie

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: VICKIE7293 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.kilgore/477.484.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I have your Craven Kilgore as son of Alexander Kilgore & Nancy Elizabeth. Dennie Rennow also researches these Kilgores. My email address is [email protected] Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

FWIW...My family and I were in Ireland and Scotland this summer. The following is the information we received from the Scots Heritage Society in Edinburgh. They told us that we were actually more often associated with the MacDuff Clan (note "associated with" not "a part of"). The Irish Heritage Center in County Wexford, IR also backed up the story that Kilgours arrived in County Ulster, Ireland from Scotland. We were also able to find the Kilgour family tartan. Jennifer Kilgore Jerome The tale of the name Kilgour begins with a family who lived in Kilgour, which is located near Falkland in the county of Fife. The surname Kilgore belongs to the category of habitation names, which are derived from pre-existing names for towns, villages, parishes, or farmsteads. The ancient family name Kilgour is believed to be originally of the Pictish race. Legend relates this founding race as being settled in North-Eastern Scotland, coming originally from the shores of Brittany about the 5th century B.C. Migrating, they sailed northward to Ireland where the Kings of Ireland refused them permission to land and settle, but they were allowed to settle in the eastern part of Scotland on the condition that all Pictish Kings marry an Irish Princess, thus assuring the Irish of a colony which would always be a part of the Irish royal court. According the the Venerable Bede, England’s oldest historian born in 673 A.D., this Pictish settlement established a matriarchal hierarchy! which was unique in the annals of British history. One Pictish King shown in documented history was Nechtan, in about 724 A.D. There had been many who had fought valiantly at Hadrian’s Wall against the Roman invasion many centuries before. Rivals of the Picts to the west were the Dalriadans or the Highlanders of the Western Isles, who were their constant foes in the battle for supremacy for power over all Scotland, known then as Alba, or Caledonia. Nechtan was finally expelled from Pictland by Alpin, half Dalriadan, half Pict, the result of a political marriage. Alpin’s son, Kenneth MacAlpine son of Alpin, became the first recorded King of Scotland as we know it today. The Picts, compressed by the northern invasion of the Orcadian Vikings who penetrated as far south as Caithness, sometimes even to Edinburgh, were left with a territory on the eastern coast of Scotland from Inverness, south to Edinburgh. >From some of the many early records, researchers examined such records as the Inquisitio, 1120 A.D., the Exchequer Rolls of Scotland, The Ragman Rolls, the Chronicles of the Picts and Scots, and various other cartularies of parishes in Scotland. From these archives they produced the early records of the name Kilgour in Fifeshire where they were seated from very ancient times, some say well before the Norman Conquest and the arrival of Duke William at Hastings in 1066 A.D. The surname Kilgour was found in many different forms. In the archives researched the earliest spelling of the name bore little resemblance to the one now used but the genealogical connections have been established by experienced historical scholars. Although your name Kilgour occurred in many references, from time to time the surname was spelt Kilgour, Kilgore, and some of these versions are still used today. These changes in spelling frequently occurred, even between father and son. Preferences for spelling variations usually either came from a division of the family, or had religious reasons, or sometimes patriotic reasons. Scribes and church people frequently selected their own version of what they thought the spelling should be. The family name Kilgour emerged as that of a Scottish Clan or family in this territory. More specifically they developed from their original territories of Fifeshire where they held the territories of Kilgour near Falkland. The first on record was Sir Thomas Kilgour who was Chaplain of the Palace of Falkland. The family flourished on their estates and by the year 1600 another Sir Thomas Kilgour was Chief of the Clan. Alexander Kilgour , his successor had a son, David. John Kilgour was sacristar of the Aberdeen Cathedral. Henry Kilgour was Chief of the Clan territories in 1644. Notable amongst the Clan at this time was Kilgour of Fife. During the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries, Scotland was ravaged by religious conflict. The newly found passionate fervour of Presbyterianism and the Church of Scotland rejected all who could not pass “The Test” of taking an oath of belief in the Church. Those failing the “Test” were frequently hanged in the High Street, or, more kindly, banished to the Colonies, to Australia, the Carolinas of the Islands. Meanwhile, the Roman Church still fought to retain its status. Many Clansmen were freely “encouraged” to migrate to Ireland. From 1603 to 1790, Scottish Clans and families were recruited from the English-Scotish border and north of Edinburgh to populate northern Ireland with Protestant stock faithful to the crown. Many heads of families migrated from Scotland to Ireland during this period. They became known as the “Scotch/Irish.” The name Kilgour may well have arrived in Ireland early in the 17th century during the reign of James I of Britain, when six counties in Ulster were confiscated and settled by the Protestant Planters” or “Undertakers, as these settlers were known. The migration or banishment to the New World also continued, some went voluntarily from Ireland, but most come directly from Scotland, their home territories. Some also moved to the European continent. They sailed to the New World across the stormy Atlantic aboard the small sailing ships known as the “White Sails,” ships such as the Hector, the Rambler or the Dove. These overcrowded ships sometimes spending two months at sea, were racked with disease, frequently landing with only 60% of their original passenger lists. In North America, early immigrants bearing the Kilgour surname Kilgour, or a spelling variation of this family name included Francis Kilgore settled in Virginia in 1761; Joseph and Martha Kilgour settled with their four children in Barstable Mass, in 1822; George Kilgour arrived in San Francisco in 1850. The coat of arms found for a bearer of the Kilgour surname did not include a motto. Under most heraldic authorities, a motto is an optional component of the coat of arms, and many families have chosen not to display a motto.

Vickie, Let me throw something out for you all to discuss. Got this off a blog recrntly. There is more but it is too long to send. The first part is what I wanted you to see. Nell The Kilgours The oldest Kilgour I have researched is James Kilgour who was married to Isabelle Steele. He was born in Balbeggie, Fife, Scotland. They had at least two sons, James and William. James used the spelling Kilgore. He was born in Donagheady, Down, Ireland. He married Margaret Low. They had at least one son, John Kilgore. John Kilgore was also born in Donadheady, Ireland. He was married to Elpeth Howeson. They were married on July 9, 1713 in Fife, Scotland. John and Elpeth came to America. John died May 7, 1731 in Chester, Pennsylvania. They had at least two children: Robert & Jonathan. Robert Kilgore was born in 1715 in Ireland. He married Margaret Spencer. He died in North Carolina. They had at least three children: Robert, Elizabeth and William. Robert married Winifred "Milly Clayton. He fought in the Revolutionary War and was at the battle of King's Mountain. Robert died on December 31st, 1782 and died as a result of an Indian attack in Wise County, Virginia. Robert and Winny had at least five sons: Ralph, Robert "Robin", Hiram, Charles and William. Ralph married Nancy Gray in Russell County, Virginia. They had at least three children: Ralph "Rafe", Sarah and John. Rafe married Amelia "Milly" Wheatley. They had 10 children: Nancy Ann, Elizabeth, Sena, Nelson, Susannah, Esther Jane, Johnston, George, Mary "Polly", and Ira H.

Ditto, Vickie ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail Kilgore<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:15 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] From the commander... Well Randy, if nothing else you ALWAYS put a smile on our faces and make us stop and think. You are a treasure and a keeper!! Gail On 9/9/08, [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > ...of the pickle flute brigade, that is. > > Wow, we haven't seen this kind of emailing since the early days, when Jerry > had to referee while the various lines duked it out online...while > maintaining > a level of jocularity, familiarity and familial concern not experienced on > most such lists. > > I, of course, was the resident fruitcake, launching pickle flute brigades, > port-a-potty-singing groups, tin foil howls at the moon, etc. > > Meanwhile, a tiny band of secret genealogists infiltrated the group and > steered us away from the myths and lore to the sturdy feel of > paper proofs. What > a service they render(ed); nailing down what could be known for certain so > that the areas where we have to guess (5 brothers or 3?) could be guessed > at > cordially but without planting flags of certainty on because the paper > didn't > prove it. > > For my money, if Vickie says it, then even the DAR is wrong if they > contradict her, and Dennie is a close second. And while I'm at it, I > guess I should > acknowledge, too, that the same fear I had of Jerry when he spoke > now rests > with Gail. She's the boss of me and this list too; she has the innate > ability > to tell me when to kid and when to be quiet without making me pout, > secrets > I'm willing to pay her dearly not to sell to my wife! > > At any rate, this ramble does have a point. One day while researching > one of > my books, I got bored at the Boston library and started hunting down > references to the Kilgores at King's Mountain. I found one book that > was listed as > no longer in print, but which was available in microfiche; it was > a narrative > of King's Mountain and Cowpens. That book made reference to three > Kilgores > only at King's Mountain, serving with John Sevier, and then mentioned only > one Kilgore at Cowpens. I should hurry up and add that the book only > mentioned > individuals who had committed a notable act, so it wasn't a roster, merely > a > narrative. It made no reference to relationships between the Kilgores at > all. Now here's the sorry news: I've since moved three times and the > notes I > took that day (copied the microfiche) are buried somewhere in boxes in the > basement, so what I just told you is hearsay. I'll find it someday, I'm > sure, > though with my health it's not likely to be soon. That said, it would > probably > be easier for me to trek back to the Boston library again. > > I also remember seeing convincing arguments when Jerry was with us against > the 5 brothers theory, and the only place I've ever seen anyone say there > were > 5 Kilgores at King's Mountain was on this list in reference to the > now-proven-as-best-guesses book that judge did. I was also once told by an > Irish > researcher that Kilgore in Ireland is MacGillivray, and that that > strain were > really transplanted Scots...and that the Kilgore name comes from words > that mean > "people who live by the woods where goats are kept." I have no reason to > give what they told me any credibility at all, but the wide range > of stories > makes me happy for the Vickie and Dennie's of the world; they make it okay > for > writers like me to drift off into dreamland...(since Randall means "wolf", > then that must make me the wolf who's hovering around the people who live > by the > woods where goats are kept." > > By the way, literally right after I typed this "goats" thing, DHL delivered > the very first copy of my book off the press!! Yippee! In two weeks, > you > can find it at Target, Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc. It's already up at > Amazon.com. Oops, that was off-topic again... > > Bob, we're glad to have new blood; you'll find this the wildest group of > cousin-chasers anywhere in genealogy, and as long as you can laugh (at us > AND > yourself) you'll be glad you joined. The archives are incredibly > stuffed with > accurate info, and if you start your search by using these four > terms, you'll > find more than you can ever find elsewhere on the Kilgores: "vickie" > "dennie" "gail" "jerry". > > Always remember, though, that for the really important matters, everyone on > this board always puts their purple boxers on, covers their left fingers in > tin foil, and emails the list looking for me. I'm known to the > long-termers as > Wikimiki, which is Cherokee for handsome-dude-who-is-always-right. > > The-still-not-all-there-cousin, > Randy > > > > > > > > **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, > plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014<http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014>) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Something occurred to me while I was typing up my earlier messages and I was trying to think outside the box-then I got sidetracked and forgot to include it. We're so immured in thinking that the Robert Kilgore shot through the body was Robert M: Winnie-and I don't say it wasn't-just that there is a new possible candidate-that we forget to look at it possibly from their perspective. We know that Charles D:1823 and Robert Kilgore D:1782 were both in VA in 1780. They lived within a mile of each other and probably travelled there together from NC-we also know that Robert's widow & children spent at least some time in Greene Co TN c1787- which supports the notion they were brothers. Now think that in 1780 when the call came to join up and stop Tarleton-not every able man would have left the settlement and gone-someone had to stay behind to guard against possible Indian attacks and such (a very real possibility)-we can't forget Robert was killed by Indians just two years later. What if the two brothers got together and who knows flipped a coin and said one of us goes and one of us stays to guard our families? That's very likely. What if the one who stayed (IF that happened) was Robert while Charles went ahead -may be they went by age and he was the younger one?? I think that this was a very real possibility. It would also explain why there doesn't seem to be any evidence that Winnie Clayton Kilgore ever applied for a widow's pension-even though she was forced to bind out at least one son, Hiram and probably a daughter, Nancy as well-meaning she could have used any extra income she could get. Of course, she may have and that evidence burned up with the War Office-but we do know that she was still living as late as 1813. The men at King's mountain came out of TN, VA & SC (I'm not sure about NC-I think some came from there too). Charles Kilgore didn't necessarily have brothers there-that's G. W. Kilgore's supposition based on the names in the book. He could have had nephews there-if he was Thomas Kilgore's (D:1822) brother. Vickie

...of the pickle flute brigade, that is. Wow, we haven't seen this kind of emailing since the early days, when Jerry had to referee while the various lines duked it out online...while maintaining a level of jocularity, familiarity and familial concern not experienced on most such lists. I, of course, was the resident fruitcake, launching pickle flute brigades, port-a-potty-singing groups, tin foil howls at the moon, etc. Meanwhile, a tiny band of secret genealogists infiltrated the group and steered us away from the myths and lore to the sturdy feel of paper proofs. What a service they render(ed); nailing down what could be known for certain so that the areas where we have to guess (5 brothers or 3?) could be guessed at cordially but without planting flags of certainty on because the paper didn't prove it. For my money, if Vickie says it, then even the DAR is wrong if they contradict her, and Dennie is a close second. And while I'm at it, I guess I should acknowledge, too, that the same fear I had of Jerry when he spoke now rests with Gail. She's the boss of me and this list too; she has the innate ability to tell me when to kid and when to be quiet without making me pout, secrets I'm willing to pay her dearly not to sell to my wife! At any rate, this ramble does have a point. One day while researching one of my books, I got bored at the Boston library and started hunting down references to the Kilgores at King's Mountain. I found one book that was listed as no longer in print, but which was available in microfiche; it was a narrative of King's Mountain and Cowpens. That book made reference to three Kilgores only at King's Mountain, serving with John Sevier, and then mentioned only one Kilgore at Cowpens. I should hurry up and add that the book only mentioned individuals who had committed a notable act, so it wasn't a roster, merely a narrative. It made no reference to relationships between the Kilgores at all. Now here's the sorry news: I've since moved three times and the notes I took that day (copied the microfiche) are buried somewhere in boxes in the basement, so what I just told you is hearsay. I'll find it someday, I'm sure, though with my health it's not likely to be soon. That said, it would probably be easier for me to trek back to the Boston library again. I also remember seeing convincing arguments when Jerry was with us against the 5 brothers theory, and the only place I've ever seen anyone say there were 5 Kilgores at King's Mountain was on this list in reference to the now-proven-as-best-guesses book that judge did. I was also once told by an Irish researcher that Kilgore in Ireland is MacGillivray, and that that strain were really transplanted Scots...and that the Kilgore name comes from words that mean "people who live by the woods where goats are kept." I have no reason to give what they told me any credibility at all, but the wide range of stories makes me happy for the Vickie and Dennie's of the world; they make it okay for writers like me to drift off into dreamland...(since Randall means "wolf", then that must make me the wolf who's hovering around the people who live by the woods where goats are kept." By the way, literally right after I typed this "goats" thing, DHL delivered the very first copy of my book off the press!! Yippee! In two weeks, you can find it at Target, Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc. It's already up at Amazon.com. Oops, that was off-topic again... Bob, we're glad to have new blood; you'll find this the wildest group of cousin-chasers anywhere in genealogy, and as long as you can laugh (at us AND yourself) you'll be glad you joined. The archives are incredibly stuffed with accurate info, and if you start your search by using these four terms, you'll find more than you can ever find elsewhere on the Kilgores: "vickie" "dennie" "gail" "jerry". Always remember, though, that for the really important matters, everyone on this board always puts their purple boxers on, covers their left fingers in tin foil, and emails the list looking for me. I'm known to the long-termers as Wikimiki, which is Cherokee for handsome-dude-who-is-always-right. The-still-not-all-there-cousin, Randy **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

This is not our line but again, isn't this hearsay? She had to hear it from someone and added her own words. It is not documented. Is anyone else interested in doing DNA for the Kilgore's? Gail On 9/9/08, Bob Shaw <[email protected]> wrote: > > Vickie, > the 5 brother story was confirmed by ms Cuthberton in an interview to a > Kilgore ancestor of John Evans. > > Charles R. (Bob) Shaw > 2425 Sherwin Dr. > Twinsburg Ohio 44087 > fax 330 963 6858 > cell 330 247 8543 > phone 330 425 8819 > [email protected] > [email protected] > www.engineeredspecialproducts.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vickie Miller" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 2:43 PM > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > > > > At this time, the parents of Robert Kilgore & Winnie Clayton are > > unknown-or I should say unproved. It's believed he was the s/o the > Robert > > Kilgore listed on 1750, 1751 & 1755 tax list in Orange Co NC as well as > > deeds and a couple of court records there-wife unknown. Researchers of > > the Douglas family haven't found a connection between Kilgores and the > > Douglas's referred to as the "Black Douglas" or any earlier Douglas'. > > This is based on the foundling story that Judge G. W. Kilgore obtained > > when he wrote to the Scottish Historical Society asking about the Kilgore > > name. > > Jennifer Jerome shows that according to her research the Kilgore name as > a > > sept is connected to MacDuff family-as you must have seen when you read > > her message-thanks again Jennifer. > > > > Note: We have not yet directly linked our American Kilgores with any in > > either Scotland or Ireland-please do not think that the Robert Kilgore > > married 1743 Margaret Spence info is correct-it is not!! It would seem > > likely that our Kilgores were linked to those in County Fife-as that > seems > > to be the strongest concentration of Kilgores in Scotland-but no direct > > link has been made-and you must draw your own conclusions. > > Vickie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Foley, James D (Penske)<mailto:[email protected]> > > To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > > > > > > Ok now I am totally lost! I am from Robert and winney through Lewis > > green and Easter Kilgore so what is the real line??? > > I have also seen Kilgore as a sept of Douglas and of Mcduff I would like > > to know just what my family line is.thank you > > Jim Foley > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > [mailto:[email protected]] > > On Behalf Of Vickie Miller > > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:45 PM > > To: Kilgore > > Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers > > > > I strongly believe that there is something to the story of the Kilgore > > brothers. Both the Russell Co VA Kilgores and the Robertson Co TN > > Kilgores have an oral tradition of Kilgore brothers. The fact that both > > lines have a tradition of brothers does support the supposition that the > > two lines were somehow closely related-we just haven't been able to > > determine quite how. I'm more inclined to go with the Robertson Co TN > > tradition as closer to fact than G. W. Kilgores supposition; which is > > precisely what I think his was at least in regards to their identity. > > I think that bearing in mind that there was a tradition of brothers in > > G. W. Kilgore's line, he was on the lookout for brothers and when he > > came across the book that listed a roster of soldiers who served at > > King's Mountain; he saw 5 men listed with the name Kilgore and said > > "Bingo" or "Eureka" or "Hallelujah" or whatever "I've found them -these > > must be the brothers our family history speak of." He then listed them > > as ! > > brothers and we've contended with those names since; which means to > > some extent those of us concerned with these lines keep trying to put > > them together and slice and dice to make things work-when they might not > > necessarily fit. > > > > When it comes to "family tradition", I always keep in mind what I read > > in a book about beginning genealogy written by an accredited genealogist > > (no I don't remember his name or his book-just that I read it about 15 > > years ago)-be wary of "family history & traditions" because facts change > > with each telling and re-telling of the story. Use them as > > guidelines-absolutely-but don't accept them as gospel truth until or > > unless you can independently verify them and better yet-document them. > > > > > > Due to space considerations-I'll continue this on another email Vickie > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with > > the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with > the > > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I figured Randy sent the bolt of lightening...he sent me a warning not to believe everything you read...;-))) Gail On 9/9/08, D Rennow <[email protected]> wrote: > > Were you accepting the story or questioning it as you read? My guess is > questioning, thus the lightening. It was a warning. Don't question Randy! > Gail you must be careful. Randy is very powerful. > > Gail Kilgore wrote: > > In reply to your email Dennie, I got as far as the elephant poop and a > bolt > > of lightening hit and knocked out the power. I mean I saw fire dancing > > outside. That puppy hit real close by. > > > > I have two poodles who are not leaving my side. Was that bolt of > lightening > > a sign??? ;-))) > > > > It is not wonder that things are so messed up with these interesting > story > > tellers. > > > > Gail > > > > > > On 9/9/08, D Rennow <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> OK I didn't want to reveal this, as some people are very sensitive and > >> get real defensive when faced with the truth. So instead of all that, > >> just be glad that Randy shared his research with me. Thank you Randy. > >> You're a good man. > >> > >> In the mid 1700's, in what is now Poland, thirteen odd men escaped from > >> the central insane asylum. They joined a circus, which traveled across > >> Europe. After a long year, three of the men decided they had had enough > >> of scooping elephant poop. Upon reaching the coast, they joined a band > >> of pirates, specifically the Dread Pirate Robert. [Yes, it was the same > >> Pirate Robert made famous by the Princess Bride movie.] > >> > >> One of the insane pirates was not happy. He complained, "If I have to > >> experience any more gore, I'll kill myself." No need said Pirate > >> Robert. Get off my ship. Then Robert kicked him over board. Splash. > >> > >> He swam to shore past hungry sharks. Even though he was covered in > >> blood, he smelled so bad that they rejected him as lunch. Apparently, > >> he had not bathed in years. > >> > >> A young woman saw him lying on the beach. She asked him his name. He > >> mumbled something about gore, kill, gore, blood, kill--gore, pirate, > >> Robert, kill... She asked, "You are Robert Kilgore?" He moaned which > >> she took as an affirmation. From then on the insane pirate, elephant > >> attendant, Franco Subalasky, was known as Robert Kilgore. > >> > >> He settled in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Yes, he had family in both > >> places. He didn't do it on purpose. Although undiagnosed as such, he > >> obviously suffered from multi personality disorder. Also one > >> personality thought he was born 30 years after the other, which confused > >> friends and family. > >> > >> His Virginia family consisted of 5 sons. They were all big talkers and > >> even the ones who slept through the Revolution, boasted of fighting at > >> Kings Mountain. Once the emails were sent, it was accepted as fact. > >> > >> Any questions? > >> > >> Cousin Dennie > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Well that gibes with the foundlng story about the child given the name Kilgore after the Church whose doorstep he (presumedly he) was found on-no proof this was the ancestor of any living Kilgore today. No proof he was a Douglas either-at least not a legitimate one. Vickie ----- Original Message ----- From: J Jerome<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore-Douglas I forgot to mention that, while in Scotland and Ireland, we were also told that the name Kilgour could have originated from a place/locality. The spelling likely changed, but it was apparently common to establish names from towns and villages which had also been named based on Gaelic terms for local landmarks. In Gaelic "Kill/Kil/Gil" is commonly used to refer to a church. The Irish city of Kilkenny was named when St. Canice established a church there, thus the city name means "church of Canice." Jennifer ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is the Robert Kilgore & Margaret Spencer info that is starting to make the rounds. Note: The John Kilgore who died in 1731 Chester Co PA has been listed as the f/o James Kilgore (M: Elizabeth Jack) by early researchers who presumed he was James' father- Later researchers no longer believe this. This John Kilgore was nearly penniless when he died. His landlord requested that his few belongings be sold to pay his lodging debts and for his burial-this is why his meager estate was inventoried by the court-in order to satisfy the landlord's claim. This strongly suggests that this John Kilgore was a single man as no heirs are mentioned-it also suggests that perhaps he had only recently arrived in America and perhaps contracted an illness during or after the crossing to which he succumbed. He could have been related to the other Kilgores of Chester Co PA-but it doesn't seem likely that James Kilgore would have allowed his father to be buried by someone else etc. It could be that he was a cousin or somesuch who wasn't able to track down his relatives before he died or just didn't have time enough to make the attempt. Remember he couldn't have just phoned them up when the ship docked. That's speculation-the important fact here is that descendants of this line-namely Rita Davis who used to be a member of this list and was an outstanding researcher no longer believe he was the f/o James Kilgore. We don't have a birth date for Robert Kilgore M: Winnie Clayton-but since his first known child was born c1763 or 1764-he was probably born prior to 1743. (I think more likely 1735-1740). Vickie ----- Original Message ----- From: Nell Blumel<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers cont'd Vickie, Let me throw something out for you all to discuss. Got this off a blog recrntly. There is more but it is too long to send. The first part is what I wanted you to see. Nell The Kilgours The oldest Kilgour I have researched is James Kilgour who was married to Isabelle Steele. He was born in Balbeggie, Fife, Scotland. They had at least two sons, James and William. James used the spelling Kilgore. He was born in Donagheady, Down, Ireland. He married Margaret Low. They had at least one son, John Kilgore. John Kilgore was also born in Donadheady, Ireland. He was married to Elpeth Howeson. They were married on July 9, 1713 in Fife, Scotland. John and Elpeth came to America. John died May 7, 1731 in Chester, Pennsylvania. They had at least two children: Robert & Jonathan. Robert Kilgore was born in 1715 in Ireland. He married Margaret Spencer. He died in North Carolina. They had at least three children: Robert, Elizabeth and William. Robert married Winifred "Milly Clayton. He fought in the Revolutionary War and was at the battle of King's Mountain. Robert died on December 31st, 1782 and died as a result of an Indian attack in Wise County, Virginia. Robert and Winny had at least five sons: Ralph, Robert "Robin", Hiram, Charles and William. Ralph married Nancy Gray in Russell County, Virginia. They had at least three children: Ralph "Rafe", Sarah and John. Rafe married Amelia "Milly" Wheatley. They had 10 children: Nancy Ann, Elizabeth, Sena, Nelson, Susannah, Esther Jane, Johnston, George, Mary "Polly", and Ira H. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At this time, the parents of Robert Kilgore & Winnie Clayton are unknown-or I should say unproved. It's believed he was the s/o the Robert Kilgore listed on 1750, 1751 & 1755 tax list in Orange Co NC as well as deeds and a couple of court records there-wife unknown. Researchers of the Douglas family haven't found a connection between Kilgores and the Douglas's referred to as the "Black Douglas" or any earlier Douglas'. This is based on the foundling story that Judge G. W. Kilgore obtained when he wrote to the Scottish Historical Society asking about the Kilgore name. Jennifer Jerome shows that according to her research the Kilgore name as a sept is connected to MacDuff family-as you must have seen when you read her message-thanks again Jennifer. Note: We have not yet directly linked our American Kilgores with any in either Scotland or Ireland-please do not think that the Robert Kilgore married 1743 Margaret Spence info is correct-it is not!! It would seem likely that our Kilgores were linked to those in County Fife-as that seems to be the strongest concentration of Kilgores in Scotland-but no direct link has been made-and you must draw your own conclusions. Vickie ----- Original Message ----- From: Foley, James D (Penske)<mailto:[email protected]> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers Ok now I am totally lost! I am from Robert and winney through Lewis green and Easter Kilgore so what is the real line??? I have also seen Kilgore as a sept of Douglas and of Mcduff I would like to know just what my family line is.thank you Jim Foley -----Original Message----- From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Vickie Miller Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:45 PM To: Kilgore Subject: [KILGORE] Kilgore brothers I strongly believe that there is something to the story of the Kilgore brothers. Both the Russell Co VA Kilgores and the Robertson Co TN Kilgores have an oral tradition of Kilgore brothers. The fact that both lines have a tradition of brothers does support the supposition that the two lines were somehow closely related-we just haven't been able to determine quite how. I'm more inclined to go with the Robertson Co TN tradition as closer to fact than G. W. Kilgores supposition; which is precisely what I think his was at least in regards to their identity. I think that bearing in mind that there was a tradition of brothers in G. W. Kilgore's line, he was on the lookout for brothers and when he came across the book that listed a roster of soldiers who served at King's Mountain; he saw 5 men listed with the name Kilgore and said "Bingo" or "Eureka" or "Hallelujah" or whatever "I've found them -these must be the brothers our family history speak of." He then listed them as ! brothers and we've contended with those names since; which means to some extent those of us concerned with these lines keep trying to put them together and slice and dice to make things work-when they might not necessarily fit. When it comes to "family tradition", I always keep in mind what I read in a book about beginning genealogy written by an accredited genealogist (no I don't remember his name or his book-just that I read it about 15 years ago)-be wary of "family history & traditions" because facts change with each telling and re-telling of the story. Use them as guidelines-absolutely-but don't accept them as gospel truth until or unless you can independently verify them and better yet-document them. Due to space considerations-I'll continue this on another email Vickie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

1858-March 5 Columbia Co AR:Three Creeks Ark: Hon David Kilgore, Dear Sir: recd a note from Hon. E. A. Warrne from yourself to him making inquiries for the purpose of ascertaining whether we were of the same family. I know that my great grandfather came from Ireland about 200 years ago with four sons and settled in Penna or Maryland. The names of his sons were Ralph, William, Charles and Thomas. The last name was my grandfather who settled in an early day in North Carolina, from whence he, in company with my father, then quite a youth, removed to Tennessee, immediately after the Revolutionary War. Tennessee was then an unbroken wilderness and they were forced to build and live in a fort as a protection aginst the Indians. This fort was called Killgore's Station and was situated near where Nashville now stands. My grandfather died since my recollection at the advance age of 110 years. My fathers name was also Thomas.My father had three brothers, all of whom were active! ly engaged in the Revolutionary War and one of them was shot through at the battle of Kings Mountain. If you are a relative to us, you will have no cause to blush on account of those four then young men as they all fought and shed their blood freely in battling for the liberty we now enjoy. We have relations in Indiana and Kentucky. I remember having seen at my father's house in Tennessee, many years ago, four men of our name whose given names were John, Huey, David and Charles. I have heard my father speak of an Obed Kilgore who was a relation. Where he lived I do not know. The name James was a common one in our family. I recollect hearing my grandfather say that all of the names were related, which must necessarily be true according to the legend. I think sir, we have the right to be proud of the name as I have never yet seen it associated with crime or infamy. So may it ver be. I enclose you a short obituary notice of my father who recently died at the age of 9! 4 years, I close sir! With the request that you will let me know the history of your immediate family which I will take as a great favor. Respectfully yours, etc. G. L. Kilgore -Thompson Journals V.20 p150-152 (re:Lee Bartos internet contact). We're so conditioned to thinking that the Robert Kilgore was Robert M: Winnie and that Charles Kilgore had brothers at the battle of King's mountain-we can't make headway with this. I think this is what tripped up Jerry Penley when he was trying to sort this out. Now who are the other names listed who visited Thomas Kilgore born 1759 in TN: John, Huey, David & Charles-these names are found in KY records as well as Obed Kilgore. The first 4 names are believed to be connected to the James Kilgore-Elizabeth Jack line-if memory serves me. 1820 census Kentucky lists all of these names with the exception of Obed Kilgore who was listed in Harrison Co KY in 1810. Can anyone shed light on these Kilgores? 1820 Anthony Kilgore Mason Co Benjamin Kilgore Campbell Chas Kilgour Mason David Kilgore Caldwell David Kilgore Caldwell Hugh Kilgore Caldwell Jemison Kilgore Campbell John Killgore Henderson John W. Kilgore Caldwell Jonathan Kilgore Caldwell Joseph Kilgour Mason Robert Kilgour Mason Saml Kilgore Caldwell Thos Killgore Henderson Widow J. Kilgore Caldwell Wm Kilgore Caldwell

It would be very interesting if we did a Kilgore DNA... very interesting indeed... Gail On 9/9/08, Bob Shaw <[email protected]> wrote: > > What have I started? I thought I asked a simple question. > If you think this is confusing consider my Bartlett ancestry. There were > 12 > different lines from across the pond. Jim Bartlett did the dna to decipher > the 12 lines. > My guess is that you are trying to combine too many different lines. > > Some of my info is from John Evans who interviewed Ms Cuthberton before > she > died. > > Charles R. (Bob) Shaw > 2425 Sherwin Dr. > Twinsburg Ohio 44087 > fax 330 963 6858 > cell 330 247 8543 > phone 330 425 8819 > [email protected] > [email protected] > www.engineeredspecialproducts.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gail Kilgore" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:15 PM > Subject: Re: [KILGORE] From the commander... > > > > Well Randy, if nothing else you ALWAYS put a smile on our faces and make > > us > > stop and think. > > > > You are a treasure and a keeper!! > > > > Gail > > > > > > On 9/9/08, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> ...of the pickle flute brigade, that is. > >> > >> Wow, we haven't seen this kind of emailing since the early days, when > >> Jerry > >> had to referee while the various lines duked it out online...while > >> maintaining > >> a level of jocularity, familiarity and familial concern not experienced > >> on > >> most such lists. > >> > >> I, of course, was the resident fruitcake, launching pickle flute > >> brigades, > >> port-a-potty-singing groups, tin foil howls at the moon, etc. > >> > >> Meanwhile, a tiny band of secret genealogists infiltrated the group and > >> steered us away from the myths and lore to the sturdy feel of > >> paper proofs. What > >> a service they render(ed); nailing down what could be known for certain > >> so > >> that the areas where we have to guess (5 brothers or 3?) could be > >> guessed > >> at > >> cordially but without planting flags of certainty on because the paper > >> didn't > >> prove it. > >> > >> For my money, if Vickie says it, then even the DAR is wrong if they > >> contradict her, and Dennie is a close second. And while I'm at it, I > >> guess I should > >> acknowledge, too, that the same fear I had of Jerry when he spoke > >> now rests > >> with Gail. She's the boss of me and this list too; she has the innate > >> ability > >> to tell me when to kid and when to be quiet without making me pout, > >> secrets > >> I'm willing to pay her dearly not to sell to my wife! > >> > >> At any rate, this ramble does have a point. One day while researching > >> one of > >> my books, I got bored at the Boston library and started hunting down > >> references to the Kilgores at King's Mountain. I found one book that > >> was listed as > >> no longer in print, but which was available in microfiche; it was > >> a narrative > >> of King's Mountain and Cowpens. That book made reference to three > >> Kilgores > >> only at King's Mountain, serving with John Sevier, and then mentioned > >> only > >> one Kilgore at Cowpens. I should hurry up and add that the book only > >> mentioned > >> individuals who had committed a notable act, so it wasn't a roster, > >> merely > >> a > >> narrative. It made no reference to relationships between the Kilgores > >> at > >> all. Now here's the sorry news: I've since moved three times and the > >> notes I > >> took that day (copied the microfiche) are buried somewhere in boxes in > >> the > >> basement, so what I just told you is hearsay. I'll find it someday, I'm > >> sure, > >> though with my health it's not likely to be soon. That said, it would > >> probably > >> be easier for me to trek back to the Boston library again. > >> > >> I also remember seeing convincing arguments when Jerry was with us > >> against > >> the 5 brothers theory, and the only place I've ever seen anyone say > there > >> were > >> 5 Kilgores at King's Mountain was on this list in reference to the > >> now-proven-as-best-guesses book that judge did. I was also once told by > >> an > >> Irish > >> researcher that Kilgore in Ireland is MacGillivray, and that that > >> strain were > >> really transplanted Scots...and that the Kilgore name comes from words > >> that mean > >> "people who live by the woods where goats are kept." I have no reason > >> to > >> give what they told me any credibility at all, but the wide range > >> of stories > >> makes me happy for the Vickie and Dennie's of the world; they make it > >> okay > >> for > >> writers like me to drift off into dreamland...(since Randall means > >> "wolf", > >> then that must make me the wolf who's hovering around the people who > >> live > >> by the > >> woods where goats are kept." > >> > >> By the way, literally right after I typed this "goats" thing, DHL > >> delivered > >> the very first copy of my book off the press!! Yippee! In two > weeks, > >> you > >> can find it at Target, Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc. It's already up > at > >> Amazon.com. Oops, that was off-topic again... > >> > >> Bob, we're glad to have new blood; you'll find this the wildest group of > >> cousin-chasers anywhere in genealogy, and as long as you can laugh (at > us > >> AND > >> yourself) you'll be glad you joined. The archives are incredibly > >> stuffed with > >> accurate info, and if you start your search by using these four > >> terms, you'll > >> find more than you can ever find elsewhere on the Kilgores: "vickie" > >> "dennie" "gail" "jerry". > >> > >> Always remember, though, that for the really important matters, everyone > >> on > >> this board always puts their purple boxers on, covers their left fingers > >> in > >> tin foil, and emails the list looking for me. I'm known to the > >> long-termers as > >> Wikimiki, which is Cherokee for handsome-dude-who-is-always-right. > >> > >> The-still-not-all-there-cousin, > >> Randy > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion > >> blog, > >> plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. > >> (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In reply to your email Dennie, I got as far as the elephant poop and a bolt of lightening hit and knocked out the power. I mean I saw fire dancing outside. That puppy hit real close by. I have two poodles who are not leaving my side. Was that bolt of lightening a sign??? ;-))) It is not wonder that things are so messed up with these interesting story tellers. Gail On 9/9/08, D Rennow <[email protected]> wrote: > > OK I didn't want to reveal this, as some people are very sensitive and > get real defensive when faced with the truth. So instead of all that, > just be glad that Randy shared his research with me. Thank you Randy. > You're a good man. > > In the mid 1700's, in what is now Poland, thirteen odd men escaped from > the central insane asylum. They joined a circus, which traveled across > Europe. After a long year, three of the men decided they had had enough > of scooping elephant poop. Upon reaching the coast, they joined a band > of pirates, specifically the Dread Pirate Robert. [Yes, it was the same > Pirate Robert made famous by the Princess Bride movie.] > > One of the insane pirates was not happy. He complained, "If I have to > experience any more gore, I'll kill myself." No need said Pirate > Robert. Get off my ship. Then Robert kicked him over board. Splash. > > He swam to shore past hungry sharks. Even though he was covered in > blood, he smelled so bad that they rejected him as lunch. Apparently, > he had not bathed in years. > > A young woman saw him lying on the beach. She asked him his name. He > mumbled something about gore, kill, gore, blood, kill--gore, pirate, > Robert, kill... She asked, "You are Robert Kilgore?" He moaned which > she took as an affirmation. From then on the insane pirate, elephant > attendant, Franco Subalasky, was known as Robert Kilgore. > > He settled in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Yes, he had family in both > places. He didn't do it on purpose. Although undiagnosed as such, he > obviously suffered from multi personality disorder. Also one > personality thought he was born 30 years after the other, which confused > friends and family. > > His Virginia family consisted of 5 sons. They were all big talkers and > even the ones who slept through the Revolution, boasted of fighting at > Kings Mountain. Once the emails were sent, it was accepted as fact. > > Any questions? > > Cousin Dennie > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >