Thanks to Sue and Yvonne, Well you may be right and they never married. I am doing this for someone else, and I wanted to be sure before suggesting the possibility to this man. Thank you all for all the lookups. May I ask for just one more. Is it possible to find a birth for John William Williams Sr. who may or may not have married Bertha? He would have been born in the early 1860s possibly in Kent. Bertha was born 1866 and very young so he was likely a few years older than she. I will now check ancestry for a John William Williams in a later census living alone or with someone else. Again thanks, Joan Definitely Bertha was born in Ipswich bur living in Chelmsford with her family in 1881. Although she says she is married in 1888, she probably was just living with John Williams but said she was married, People often lied on the census if they were not married, There is no record of a marriage, and she would only have been eighteen in 1888, and possibly only sixteen when she met John Williams, Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:04 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Thanks Yvonne, I understood that Chelmsford is the Civil Parish for Ipswich? Is this wrong? Also, you will see that thanks to Jennifer's lookup I now know they were married and living at "Navy Arms", Ivy in 1888. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Yvonne Harris Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 5:03 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hello Joan. I have found Rose Williams b 1890 in Sheppey and John Stanford Williams b 1887 Canterbury. On 1901 census Bertha says she was born in Ipswich, in 1911 she says she was born in Chelmsford. 1881 She was born 1871 Ipswich but living in Chelmsford., So she must have moved to Kent probably did not put her name on the 1891 census because she was not married, 1901 There is a John Williams a prisoner in Canterbury Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 6:55 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888 withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hi All, I have just joined. I am searching for the birth of John William Williams b 1887-89 in Canterbury. Can anyone help me find this birth? I have found him in 1901 with only his mother who has by then remarried a Geo. Richardson. That is where I learned John’s birth date. I have been unable to find John William b 1888 living with his father John William Williams and mother Bertha (nee Welham), before she remarries. John and Bertha (Welham) Williams married after the 1881 census and don’t seem to appear in 1891. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Joan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Joan, Found John William Williams born Stepney 1864. 1871 Living with grandparents in Holborn Cannot find him 1881 or 1891 1901 in prison in Canterbury Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:47 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams livinginCanterbury1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Thanks to Sue and Yvonne, Well you may be right and they never married. I am doing this for someone else, and I wanted to be sure before suggesting the possibility to this man. Thank you all for all the lookups. May I ask for just one more. Is it possible to find a birth for John William Williams Sr. who may or may not have married Bertha? He would have been born in the early 1860s possibly in Kent. Bertha was born 1866 and very young so he was likely a few years older than she. I will now check ancestry for a John William Williams in a later census living alone or with someone else. Again thanks, Joan Definitely Bertha was born in Ipswich bur living in Chelmsford with her family in 1881. Although she says she is married in 1888, she probably was just living with John Williams but said she was married, People often lied on the census if they were not married, There is no record of a marriage, and she would only have been eighteen in 1888, and possibly only sixteen when she met John Williams, Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:04 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Thanks Yvonne, I understood that Chelmsford is the Civil Parish for Ipswich? Is this wrong? Also, you will see that thanks to Jennifer's lookup I now know they were married and living at "Navy Arms", Ivy in 1888. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Yvonne Harris Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 5:03 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hello Joan. I have found Rose Williams b 1890 in Sheppey and John Stanford Williams b 1887 Canterbury. On 1901 census Bertha says she was born in Ipswich, in 1911 she says she was born in Chelmsford. 1881 She was born 1871 Ipswich but living in Chelmsford., So she must have moved to Kent probably did not put her name on the 1891 census because she was not married, 1901 There is a John Williams a prisoner in Canterbury Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 6:55 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888 withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hi All, I have just joined. I am searching for the birth of John William Williams b 1887-89 in Canterbury. Can anyone help me find this birth? I have found him in 1901 with only his mother who has by then remarried a Geo. Richardson. That is where I learned John’s birth date. I have been unable to find John William b 1888 living with his father John William Williams and mother Bertha (nee Welham), before she remarries. John and Bertha (Welham) Williams married after the 1881 census and don’t seem to appear in 1891. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Joan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message