Thanks Yvonne, I understood that Chelmsford is the Civil Parish for Ipswich? Is this wrong? Also, you will see that thanks to Jennifer's lookup I now know they were married and living at "Navy Arms", Ivy in 1888. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Yvonne Harris Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 5:03 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hello Joan. I have found Rose Williams b 1890 in Sheppey and John Stanford Williams b 1887 Canterbury. On 1901 census Bertha says she was born in Ipswich, in 1911 she says she was born in Chelmsford. 1881 She was born 1871 Ipswich but living in Chelmsford., So she must have moved to Kent probably did not put her name on the 1891 census because she was not married, 1901 There is a John Williams a prisoner in Canterbury Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 6:55 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888 withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hi All, I have just joined. I am searching for the birth of John William Williams b 1887-89 in Canterbury. Can anyone help me find this birth? I have found him in 1901 with only his mother who has by then remarried a Geo. Richardson. That is where I learned John’s birth date. I have been unable to find John William b 1888 living with his father John William Williams and mother Bertha (nee Welham), before she remarries. John and Bertha (Welham) Williams married after the 1881 census and don’t seem to appear in 1891. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Joan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Joan As I understand, Jennifer's lookup was for John William Williams' baptism in Canterbury. Although it says he is the son of John and Bertha William, as Bertha appears to have married George Richardson under the name of Welham it does suggest that she was not married to John Williams (or she committed bigamy). They appear to have moved about a bit (I see that their daughter Rose was born in Sheerness according to the 1901 census) so the vicar would not necessarily have known their marital status. I can find no marriage on FreeBMD for Bertha Welham and John Williams. There is a Rose Eliza Williams reg on FreeBMD Sep Qtr. 1890 who might fit the bill but I can't positively identify John William Williams birth registration although there is one reg Dartford district Mar 1888 (not a million miles from Sheerness). I have looked up the Navy Arms in Ivy Lane and the publican from 1874 to 1891 was John Wilson so they were not running the pub. John Williams was possible working there but not at the 1891 census when John Wilson's widow Elizabeth was running it. Regards Sue -----Original Message----- From: kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Joan Rooney Sent: 13 November 2013 23:05 To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Thanks Yvonne, I understood that Chelmsford is the Civil Parish for Ipswich? Is this wrong? Also, you will see that thanks to Jennifer's lookup I now know they were married and living at "Navy Arms", Ivy in 1888. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Yvonne Harris Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 5:03 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hello Joan. I have found Rose Williams b 1890 in Sheppey and John Stanford Williams b 1887 Canterbury. On 1901 census Bertha says she was born in Ipswich, in 1911 she says she was born in Chelmsford. 1881 She was born 1871 Ipswich but living in Chelmsford., So she must have moved to Kent probably did not put her name on the 1891 census because she was not married, 1901 There is a John Williams a prisoner in Canterbury Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 6:55 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888 withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hi All, I have just joined. I am searching for the birth of John William Williams b 1887-89 in Canterbury. Can anyone help me find this birth? I have found him in 1901 with only his mother who has by then remarried a Geo. Richardson. That is where I learned John’s birth date. I have been unable to find John William b 1888 living with his father John William Williams and mother Bertha (nee Welham), before she remarries. John and Bertha (Welham) Williams married after the 1881 census and don’t seem to appear in 1891. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Joan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I have found one possible John Williams b c. 1859 in Canterbury who might fit the bill, but I haven't found him in any census later than 1881. In 1881 he is an ag. Lab. living with his widowed Mother The initial S. is wrong, but in 1861 this same boy was John L. Any thoughts from you helpful listers? Thanks, Joan 1871 census John S Williams Age: 12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859 Relation: Son Father's Name: Alexander Williams Mother's Name: Charlotte Williams Gender: Male Where born: Canterbury, Kent, England Civil Parish: St Mildred Ecclesiastical parish: Canterbury County/Island: Kent Country: England Registration District: Canterbury Sub-registration District: Canterbury ED, institution, or vessel: 15 Household Schedule Number: 30 Piece: 968 Folio: 55 Page Number: 5 Household Members: Name Age Alexander Williams 44 Charlotte Williams 37 John S Williams 12 Charlotte E Williams 9 Alexander Williams 4 Annie

Hello Joan, Definitely Bertha was born in Ipswich bur living in Chelmsford with her family in 1881. Although she says she is married in 1888, she probably was just living with John Williams but said she was married, People often lied on the census if they were not married, There is no record of a marriage, and she would only have been eighteen in 1888, and possibly only sixteen when she met John Williams, Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:04 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Thanks Yvonne, I understood that Chelmsford is the Civil Parish for Ipswich? Is this wrong? Also, you will see that thanks to Jennifer's lookup I now know they were married and living at "Navy Arms", Ivy in 1888. Joan -----Original Message----- From: Yvonne Harris Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 5:03 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hello Joan. I have found Rose Williams b 1890 in Sheppey and John Stanford Williams b 1887 Canterbury. On 1901 census Bertha says she was born in Ipswich, in 1911 she says she was born in Chelmsford. 1881 She was born 1871 Ipswich but living in Chelmsford., So she must have moved to Kent probably did not put her name on the 1891 census because she was not married, 1901 There is a John Williams a prisoner in Canterbury Yvonne -----Original Message----- From: Joan Rooney Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 6:55 PM To: kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: [KENT-ENG] John William Williams living in Canterbury 1888 withwife Bertha Welham and Son John William b 1888 Hi All, I have just joined. I am searching for the birth of John William Williams b 1887-89 in Canterbury. Can anyone help me find this birth? I have found him in 1901 with only his mother who has by then remarried a Geo. Richardson. That is where I learned John’s birth date. I have been unable to find John William b 1888 living with his father John William Williams and mother Bertha (nee Welham), before she remarries. John and Bertha (Welham) Williams married after the 1881 census and don’t seem to appear in 1891. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Joan ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message