Thank you Mary, I did not know about another daughter Ann,  the rest of the children were all baptised at The Union House of Wickhambreaux so they seem to have had quite an attachment to the workhouse both Bridge and Wickhambreaux. I can confirm that the Sophia in the workhouse at Shoreditch is not the one from this family,  I have found the owner. I am also pretty sure that the Charles 1861 is the right one at this stage. With thanks,  Sylvia. ________________________________ From: Helen Whapshott <helen.whapshott@ntlworld.com> To: sylvia thomas <boxstaffy@yahoo.com.au> Sent: Tue, 19 January, 2010 5:50:35 PM Subject: RE: [KENT-ENG] HOLNESS death. Hi Sylvia Had a quick look at the Wickhambreaux PRs - Looks as if the Thomas who died at Bridge Union is the right one - he was buried at Wickhambreaux on 20th October 1867 aged 77 and described as being of Wickhambreaux.  Ann is also there buried 24th August 1885 aged 77.  I also found another Ann, daughter of Thomas and Ann, baptised at Wickhambreaux on 5th July 1835.  She died 1840, buried Wickhambreaux 9th March 1840 aged 4. I have found Sophia in the 1881 census in the district workhouse, Shoreditch, laundress and unmarried with a baby aged 1 month, Maggie born in Shoreditch. Charles is in Bridge union in 1861 census Like you, can't find any more at the moment but can send pages if you do not have Ancestry. Hope this helps Helen -----Original Message----- From: kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of sylvia thomas Sent: 19 January 2010 00:15 To: KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com Subject: [KENT-ENG] HOLNESS death. Hi Everyone, This may sound stupid,  but how do you know when you have the right death? This family is the bane of my life and may or may not be mine. The family 1851 is at Wickhambreaux consisting of Thomas HOLNESS father, mother Ann, sons Thomas, William, Charles and daughter Sophia. Thomas snr birthplace is said to be Whitchurch, Hants. Ann, Canterbury. This had me stumped fo some time as I could find neither 1861. In the end I decided the birthplaces were swapped. Ann appears 1861 birthplace, Hants.says she is a widow. Thomas along with the rest of the family vaporise. No show for Ann 1871,  1881 she is at Bridge as a Nurse pauper, born, Hants. Ann died at Bridge Union Workhouse.1885 age 77 widow of Thomas HOLNESS .  So far this looks promising. There are 4 Thomas Holness deaths between 1851 and 1861. One of them a 3 week old, 1854.. That leaves 3. An email way back on the Holness list (not to me) said that the  Thomas Holness death 1867 was the husband of Ann. and they were both buried at Bridge. (This person is not on the list now) So, I ordered this cert.,  it says Thomas Holness age 77 farm labourer, died Bridge Union Workhouse. the age fits with 1851 census. I'm still not totally convinced that this is the right one. So,  other than ordering the other three, bearing in mind that this family do not seem to know where they were born,  if they were born or where they were at any time other than the 1851 census. I still have no proof that they are mine, but keep plugging along just in case something comes up. I realise the obvious is to just order ther othere three certs.,  but are thy going to tell me any more than the 1867 one. Unlike a female death cert that tells you if she was a widdow and who her husband was. Any ideas anyone? Regards Sylvia in Aus. ____________________________________________________________________________ ______ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au..movies.yahoo.com/session-times/

I'm guessing that you know about Jane Tingley in the 1841 census living with a James and Ann. Following that - there is a birth in the IGI of Jane Barns Tingley born 30 DEC 1827 Worth, Sussex, England. Her mother is listed as Sarah Tingley (no father listed). This would fit with the marriage in 1798. Hope this helps. Terry

Hi again, Another 3 marriages for James Tingley, although the last 2 may be the same (? A correction of name). Was James unlucky with his wives or are there more than one James"? MARY DENMAN Family Marriage: 23 APR 1807 Worth, Sussex, England MARY LINDFIELD Family Marriage: 16 JUL 1837 Worth, Sussex, England MARY VERGER Family Marriage: 09 JUL 1837 Worth, Sussex, England Terry, Oakville, Ontario

Hi Ann, I have found a marriage for James Tingley of Worth, Sussex in 1807 but it is to mARY. Could he have been married twice? Here is the link: _http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/frameset_search.asp_ (http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/frameset_search.asp) Regards Diana Re: Hi everybody I am hoping somebody might be able to help identify the wife of James Tingley, or variation of name, who I believe married Ann in Kent approximately 1797 when their first child was born. James was from Worth in Sussex and there is no record of a marriage in the surround parishes. The 1851 census gives his wife Ann's birthplace as Wrotham, Kent, and I am hoping/assuming they were married somewhere in the vicinity. I would be grateful if some kind person who has access to a Kent marriage index or other records could do a lookup for me. Thank you. Helen

Hi Helen, Family Search - IGI gives this marriage of a James Tingley in 1798: Spouse: SARAH SIMMONDS Family Marriage: 13 FEB 1798 Banstead, Surrey, England Is it possible he married Sarah who then died and he then married Ann ? Terry, Oakville, Ontario >I am hoping somebody might be able to help identify the wife of James >Tingley, or variation of name, who I believe married Ann in Kent >approximately 1797 when their first child was born.

Hi John I would be very interested to see what correspondence you have from this school. I was going to send you the picture which someone else has kindly provided but can also send a current picture. I used to play in this building when at primary school. There was a beautiful ballroom and we would take our socks off and slide across it. It had just been converted into flats in the 1980's, previously having been a large hotel called the Granville Clifton. In the 1990's it was a snooker club, but now its private flats again. So, still standing! It was built c.1872 along with the rest of this side of Dalby Square and started its school life named Palmer House School. By 1886 it had become New College when the Jones family took over. The Rev George Hugh Jones was Headmaster then. He was the son of J H Jones of Trinity College who made a reputation in tutorial work in his university, and whose pupils rose to the highest positions in the Church and at the Bar. The Rev George Hugh Jones started his academical career at Christ's Hospital and at King's College London. When he took over, the school was classes as being in one of the healthiest locations in Margate, although in Cliftonville.  From an 1896 Guide "The school and class rooms, as well as the dormitories, dining hall and other domestic apartments are spacious, well furnished and faultless from a hygienic point of view, and the domestic arrangements, which are under the special personal supervision of Mrs Jones, are of a very superior class". "Technical education also receives the attention its importance deserves, and in addition to the well appointed physical and Chemical Laboratories, there are well equipped Carpenters and Pattern Maker's shops and a Mechanic's shop etc presided over by experienced, practical craftsmen. The general course includes Latin, Greek, German, French, Mathematics, Natural Science, English Grammar, Composition, Literature etc, Drawing, Vocal Music and many other branches; but of course, the curriculum is adapted to the special powers and requirements of each boy" Boys were sent up for the Public School various higher examinations, such as the University of London Matriculation, the South Kensington Science and Art, College of Preceptors, Oxford and Cambridge Locals etc.  The Boys were also taught to swim (and would use the Clifton Baths which later became the Lido), Book keeping, Banking operations, invoices, laws and customs of Bills of Exchange, every principle of Banking really. The Rev George Hugh Jones had a daughter Ethel Ann Walton nee Jones who, after teaching at New College, set up her own school at 9-10 Dalby Square in 1899, called the Queen's School and my mother attended there in the 1950's. New College closed after WW1, whether it moved to another location out of town like many other schools in the area I'm not sure. By 1930 it was known at the Cliftonville Club, a gentlemans club. I believe the East Kent Archives has a few notes on the school. I can look up the reference numbers for you should you wish to delve into this deeper. Reagrds Suzannah   ________________________________ From: John Newport <john.newport1@ntlworld.com> To: KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 18 January, 2010 19:29:43 Subject: [KENT-ENG] New College, 16 Dalby Square, Cliftonville, Margate Back in 1890, my grandfather was a young teacher at New College, 16, Dalby Square, Cliftonville, Margate. I have some of his correspondence and would love to know more about the school. Looking at the Internet, however, it seems that this area is, now, quite run down and may be rebuilt, so the school has definitely gone. Is there anywhere I can go or anyone I contact to find out more? Is there, possibly, a records office I can contact? I've looked for photos or postcards that might show the building but with no luck. I have many names of pupils, and some teachers, but need to put a bit more flesh on the bones. I'd be grateful for any help, please. John ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sylvia The one thing that has helped me be sure of a death is to see who was present at the death..This is usually a member of the family or the next door neighbour..This helped me when I thought a daughter of a family had died but she was present at her mothers death so I realised that she was alive and well and solved 2 problems with the one cert.. Go on live dangerously and order the 3 cert.. Mary Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "sylvia thomas" <boxstaffy@yahoo.com.au> To: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 11:14 AM Subject: [KENT-ENG] HOLNESS death. Hi Everyone, This may sound stupid, but how do you know when you have the right death? This family is the bane of my life and may or may not be mine. The family 1851 is at Wickhambreaux consisting of Thomas HOLNESS father, mother Ann, sons Thomas, William, Charles and daughter Sophia. Thomas snr birthplace is said to be Whitchurch, Hants. Ann, Canterbury. This had me stumped fo some time as I could find neither 1861. In the end I decided the birthplaces were swapped. Ann appears 1861 birthplace, Hants.says she is a widow. Thomas along with the rest of the family vaporise. No show for Ann 1871, 1881 she is at Bridge as a Nurse pauper, born, Hants. Ann died at Bridge Union Workhouse.1885 age 77 widow of Thomas HOLNESS . So far this looks promising. There are 4 Thomas Holness deaths between 1851 and 1861. One of them a 3 week old, 1854. That leaves 3. An email way back on the Holness list (not to me) said that the Thomas Holness death 1867 was the husband of Ann. and they were both buried at Bridge. (This person is not on the list now) So, I ordered this cert., it says Thomas Holness age 77 farm labourer, died Bridge Union Workhouse. the age fits with 1851 census. I'm still not totally convinced that this is the right one. So, other than ordering the other three, bearing in mind that this family do not seem to know where they were born, if they were born or where they were at any time other than the 1851 census. I still have no proof that they are mine, but keep plugging along just in case something comes up. I realise the obvious is to just order ther othere three certs., but are thy going to tell me any more than the 1867 one. Unlike a female death cert that tells you if she was a widdow and who her husband was. Any ideas anyone? Regards Sylvia in Aus. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello John, These links should give you photographs of the school - http://www.myhometown-schools.co.uk/thephoto.aspx?photoid=1165 http://www.myhometown-schools.co.uk/thephoto.aspx?photoid=1166 There is a website for old schoolmates, perhaps you could try posting a message to see if anyone knows more? http://www.myhometown-schools.co.uk/school_members.aspx?schoolid=52845 Cheers Trish Nowra NSW > Back in 1890, my grandfather was a young teacher at New College, 16, Dalby > Square, Cliftonville, Margate. I have some of his correspondence and would > love to know more about the school. Looking at the Internet, however, it > seems that this area is, now, quite run down and may be rebuilt, so the > school has definitely gone. > John

Thanks everyone who responded to my request for information. As a result of which I have now, as they say, moved on Thanks Vera Lennard g3vps@tinyworld.co.uk 2009: A year in review - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/2009

Back in 1890, my grandfather was a young teacher at New College, 16, Dalby Square, Cliftonville, Margate. I have some of his correspondence and would love to know more about the school. Looking at the Internet, however, it seems that this area is, now, quite run down and may be rebuilt, so the school has definitely gone. Is there anywhere I can go or anyone I contact to find out more? Is there, possibly, a records office I can contact? I've looked for photos or postcards that might show the building but with no luck. I have many names of pupils, and some teachers, but need to put a bit more flesh on the bones. I'd be grateful for any help, please. John

Hi Everyone, This may sound stupid,  but how do you know when you have the right death? This family is the bane of my life and may or may not be mine. The family 1851 is at Wickhambreaux consisting of Thomas HOLNESS father, mother Ann, sons Thomas, William, Charles and daughter Sophia. Thomas snr birthplace is said to be Whitchurch, Hants. Ann, Canterbury. This had me stumped fo some time as I could find neither 1861. In the end I decided the birthplaces were swapped. Ann appears 1861 birthplace, Hants.says she is a widow. Thomas along with the rest of the family vaporise. No show for Ann 1871,  1881 she is at Bridge as a Nurse pauper, born, Hants. Ann died at Bridge Union Workhouse.1885 age 77 widow of Thomas HOLNESS .  So far this looks promising. There are 4 Thomas Holness deaths between 1851 and 1861. One of them a 3 week old, 1854. That leaves 3. An email way back on the Holness list (not to me) said that the  Thomas Holness death 1867 was the husband of Ann. and they were both buried at Bridge. (This person is not on the list now) So, I ordered this cert.,  it says Thomas Holness age 77 farm labourer, died Bridge Union Workhouse. the age fits with 1851 census. I'm still not totally convinced that this is the right one. So,  other than ordering the other three, bearing in mind that this family do not seem to know where they were born,  if they were born or where they were at any time other than the 1851 census. I still have no proof that they are mine, but keep plugging along just in case something comes up. I realise the obvious is to just order ther othere three certs.,  but are thy going to tell me any more than the 1867 one. Unlike a female death cert that tells you if she was a widdow and who her husband was. Any ideas anyone? Regards Sylvia in Aus. __________________________________________________________________________________ See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/

Firstly many thanks to all the people who responded to my request for a look up in Elham PRs. Your help is greatly appreciated. This is just really a follow up message. I've since looked a lot more closely at this line of the family and noticed one or two niggling discrepancies which together with the lack of info on the Elham PRs has led me to believe I've been searching in the wrong direction. The result of which I've demolished half my tree (keeping a copy of course) and started out on a much more logical branch.. I have no idea where or when my Frances was born now. She probably died in or shortly after childbirth around 1840 as her husband James Adley and two young children are living with her father in Dunkirk. James remarried in the 1850's (after census date) in Boughton. So its back to the drawing board.

Hi Listers Years and years of research and I still cannot find my 3 x great grandmother or her parents !! Jane Amelia Browning (known as Amelia) was baptised on 12 Sep 1817 at Weslyan White Chapel Sheerness. Her parents are noted as John and Peggy Browning. Does anyone have PR's for the area that might show a marriage for John and Peggy?? Browning please? Does it mean that BOTH parents were Weslyan or maybe just the mother?? Jane Amelia ended up in London she 'married' Robert Pilkington sometime 1841-1844. I have found him alone and boarding in 1841 census but no sign of her. I would very much appreciate any help in placing Jane (Amelia) prior to 1844 OR her marriage which seems to be non existant also. Do you think my problem in finding her parents and perhaps Jane's marriage is that they were non conformists???? I have two brick walls and this is one of them many thanks from downunder Patsy

Either that or he was a glutton for punishment. Bob in Spain On 14/01/2010 11:30, Mary Paterson wrote: > Dennis I agree,, I have one that married 5 times..in Scotland...Must be > something in the water... > > Mary > Sydney

>From Ipswich Journal, Saturday, April 26, 1817; Issue 4180. A few days since, the Rev. John Ash STURGIS, Curate of Snargate, was fully committed to Maidstone Gaol, for trial at the next Assizes for Kent on a charge of bigamy. He was married about 12 months ago to Miss HOWLAND of Canterbury.

Answered off list Pam from Adelaide Australia > Ruth. It did that to me yesterday..I forget what I did...try logging in > with the website addy... > www.ancestry.co.uk I didnt have much trouble if I remember...its ok > today... > > Mary > Sydney > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ruth Rathbone" <ruthrath@gmail.com> > To: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM > Subject: [KENT-ENG] Ancestry > > >> Hi, >> >> Off topic and I apologise but how long would it take to get a reply from >> the company when you guys are so great! >> >> Have any other Australian members with subscriptions to Ancestry.co.uk, >> found that logging in this morning is defaulting to Ancestry.com.au. >> >> Have you found a way round it? >> >> :) >> Ruth >> Australia >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ruth. It did that to me yesterday..I forget what I did...try logging in with the website addy... www.ancestry.co.uk I didnt have much trouble if I remember...its ok today... Mary Sydney ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth Rathbone" <ruthrath@gmail.com> To: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM Subject: [KENT-ENG] Ancestry > Hi, > > Off topic and I apologise but how long would it take to get a reply from > the company when you guys are so great! > > Have any other Australian members with subscriptions to Ancestry.co.uk, > found that logging in this morning is defaulting to Ancestry.com.au. > > Have you found a way round it? > > :) > Ruth > Australia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Kent FHS CD Rom 17 has the PRs for Elham, and whilst several KEELERs were baptised there I can't find Frances amongst them. Best wishes, Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Whitehouse" <barbara.whitehouse@yahoo.co.uk> To: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 8:31 AM Subject: [KENT-ENG] KEELER and Elham PRs > Further to a post I made yesterday. My elusive Frances KEELER was > according to census born around 1806 in Elham. > > I've been unable to find PRs for Elham on the net and a trip to LDSFHC is > not feasible for me being a plane journey away. Does anyone have access to > these PRs who may be able to do a lookup for me. > > Thanks > Barbara > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Further to a post I made yesterday. My elusive Frances KEELER was according to census born around 1806 in Elham. I've been unable to find PRs for Elham on the net and a trip to LDSFHC is not feasible for me being a plane journey away. Does anyone have access to these PRs who may be able to do a lookup for me. Thanks Barbara

Berry, My understanding is that the Poor in each parish were helped out by the parish, Poor Relief, under the provisions of the Poor Laws. Applicants for relief were assessed, examined, to see whether they qualified for aid. Poor relief was administered through the vestry management committees of the parish churches. From 1572, 2 members of the vestry were elected annually to act as Overseers of the Poor. The system lasted upto 1837, after which the Workhouses wer in place to deal with the Poor. The Poor Law and settlement records which susrvive are usually held at local Local Hisotry Cebntres / Archives. For a full and accurate description of the system follow this link. http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?sLeafletID=167 Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 17:08:36 +0000 From: Berry Wraight <berry.wraight@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] Greenwich History (Helen Carlisle) Hi Richard Following your point about the poor laws, can you tell me when the settlement exam stopped being the norm and, what prompted such an examination? This may help me to pin point my Gx3 grandfather - at last!!! - assuming I can find him in the settlement records if they still exist. Many thanks Berry