Hi List Thanks I hadn't thought of this:= the cause of the haemorrhaging could well be due to the toxic fumes your blacksmith was breathing in on a daily basis. It's a pity the certificates didn't give more information including how long he suffered. I have other death certificates more information is given eg. 'influenza 8 days, heart failure'. One from 1860 that advises 'Decay of nature 4 months' we see that as meaning 'old age'. 1880 = Phthisis, 6 months, asphyxia, aged 32yrs. Kind regards Ann Spiro research@sbse.net.au

Jackson Day wrote: > Please let me put in a vote for document + comment, not document alone. > Documents are often created in a hurry by people who don't know what is > going on. My father's death certificate shows that he died of Alzheimer's > disease. No one ever diagnosed him with that while he was alive, and the > family is angry at the doctor who didn't know him and just put that down > because it was easy. He was almost 95, and it's too bad no-one is willing > to simply diagnose "old age". So the document is the document, but the > record would be incomplete without adding the conclusions of those who knew > him! One of the key points here is that you knew the deceased because he was your father. The same can't be said of someone who died 150 years ago. I think if it was my father, I'd have challenged the cause of death if I was sure it was wrong. I don't think, in England, "old age" is a valid cause of death, but I sit to be corrected on that. It has been given as a CoD on 19th century death certs though. I found out my disabled son had a diagnosis I knew nothing about and was quite cross about it. However, his paediatrician explained the reasoning behind it. > And if anyone responds, "well, that was in New Jersey, things like that > don't happen in England or Australia," I'd have to just say, "how > wonderful, my experience on this is restricted to New Jersey! It certainly can happen in England. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

HI folks, many thanks for your emails but I do know about thrombocytopenic purpura etc., I have done extensive reading on the subject over the last 2 years. One article I saw 2 days ago did give an indication that Cholera 'might' cause the purpura, otherwise I would not have mentioned it. It's a pity the doctor didn't write the cause of the purpura on the death certificate. This may be off topic so I won't say anymore. Thanks again for you emails. Kind regards Ann Spiro research@sbse.net.au

HI Nothing has been changed, he is on the family tree as 'purpura/haemorrhage'. I have already done a large amount of research and as an RN I do understand more than some when reading. I did say ?cholera (question mark) but have listed other illness than can cause purpura. Regards Ann Spiro Perth, Western Australia research@sbse.net.au http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~blacksmiths/ Hi, Please - ONLY put his cause of death - as it is shown on his Death Certificate - don't make guesses. If the cause was Cholera - that would have been stated. Purpura/Haemorrhage - is caused by Many reasons - don't change history with a guess. Whenever doing any research - No guesses - they could be wrong - only information that is stated on documents. Cheers, Stella At 11:13 PM 07/02/2010, SBS Engineers Genealogy wrote: >Hi List > >I have a great-great grandfather Thomas Briggs (a blacksmith) who died >9th August 1854 in Blue Town (Sheerness). His death certificate says >cause of death 'purpura/haemorrhage'....after doing a lot of reading on >'purpura' and it's different causes - I think I will put his >haemorrhaging down to Cholera????? He was only 24yrs old and had been >married only 3 months - to the day (8th May 1854). He was buried 12th >August but don't know where. > ge

Stella, You are right.  State the facts.  However I would like to add a proviso, based upon what genealogy programmes have to offer in logging references, notes etc against various facts, such as BMD events. There is normally the facility to quote a source.  Some programmes will offer standard references to sources which is OK to a point. There should be a system where you can specify the way in which you record sources.  For example, I have the UK censuses listed as: Census - 1841, Census - 1851, etc up to Census - 1911.  I have used a standard method for recording headings, and then when I want to add a census as the source of a particular find, I will call up the heading, and enter the detail, such as the Film  / page / folio number for that particular find.  I have tried to work out a consistent approach to building up source headings, and this has paid off quite well.  Now, I will transcribe information from the find in the standard fields offered up by the programme for the source, exactly as written down. My programme has a field which states "Text as written" into which I will transcribe the information about the item. Now, if I want to speculate, or add in snippets from finds from reference books etc, I will  place this information into the Notes field which is attached to the event.  I am very careful in stating where I got the snippet from, or to state "Information word of mouth from ..."  or "My analasys and conclusions..." I hope this inforamtion helps.  If what I have said is hard to follow, then open up your genealogy programme and explore what it has on offer to record sources, notes, etc - aloongside my expalnation. In brief, careful research and planning  - write down how you wish to record things, read the programme help pages, or check the on-line help & message boards for the programme - will hopefully lessen yopur headaches in recoding things correctly and with honesty. Cheers  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K.   ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:17:55 -0800 From: Stella Stanger <sstanger@sfu.ca> Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] Cholera Deaths 1854 Hi,  Please - ONLY put his cause of death - as it is shown on his Death Certificate - don't make guesses. If the cause was Cholera - that would have been stated. Purpura/Haemorrhage - is caused by Many reasons - don't change history with a guess. Whenever doing any research - No guesses - they could be wrong - only information that is stated on documents. Cheers, Stella :=>< SNIP cause of death 'purpura/haemorrhage'....after doing a lot of reading on 'purpura' and it's different causes - I think I will put his haemorrhaging down to Cholera?????  He was only 24yrs old and had been >married only 3 months - to the day (8th May 1854).  :=>< SNIP Ann Spiro Perth, Western Australia

Please let me put in a vote for document + comment, not document alone. Documents are often created in a hurry by people who don't know what is going on. My father's death certificate shows that he died of Alzheimer's disease. No one ever diagnosed him with that while he was alive, and the family is angry at the doctor who didn't know him and just put that down because it was easy. He was almost 95, and it's too bad no-one is willing to simply diagnose "old age". So the document is the document, but the record would be incomplete without adding the conclusions of those who knew him! And if anyone responds, "well, that was in New Jersey, things like that don't happen in England or Australia," I'd have to just say, "how wonderful, my experience on this is restricted to New Jersey! Jackson H. Day, M. Div, MPH 410-303-8213 Executive Director International Conference of War Veteran Ministers http://www.warveteranministers.org Consultant, Addictions and Health Care Program United Methodist General Board of Church and Society http://www.umc-gbcs.org   -----Original Message----- From: kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of SteadeC@aol.com Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 10:55 PM To: sstanger@sfu.ca; kent-eng@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] Cholera Deaths 1854 In a message dated 2/8/2010 6:37:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, sstanger@sfu.ca writes: Hi, Please - ONLY put his cause of death - as it is shown on his Death Certificate - don't make guesses. If the cause was Cholera - that would have been stated. Purpura/Haemorrhage - is caused by Many reasons - don't change history with a guess. Whenever doing any research - No guesses - they could be wrong - only information that is stated on documents. Cheers, Stella At 11:13 PM 07/02/2010, SBS Engineers Genealogy wrote: >Hi List > >I have a great-great grandfather Thomas Briggs (a blacksmith) who died >9th August 1854 in Blue Town (Sheerness). His death certificate says >cause of death 'purpura/haemorrhage'....after doing a lot of reading on >'purpura' and it's different causes - I think I will put his >haemorrhaging down to Cholera????? He was only 24yrs old and had been >married only 3 months - to the day (8th May 1854). He was buried 12th >August but don't know where. > >KInd regards >Ann Spiro >Perth, Western Australia >research@sbse.net.au >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~blacksmiths/ >I have the surname BASKETT registered with GOONS >http://www.one-name.org/ >Rootsweb surname list for NUTTY. > >--------------------------------------- >Recent postings on the Kent list about hospital ships being used during >Cholera epidemics either to supplement or replace use of workhouses >during >epidemics trigger several questions. >Many Thanks Dick Fowler > > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message I concur....A blacksmith in those days could have been breathing substantial amounts of toxic funes, especially from coal fires. Steade ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Richard How very kind of you to look for a match for the photograph, I will check them out right now, handy to use other terms, I had tried all the obvious ones (to me) but not 'rampart'. So it just proves more heads are better than one. I had not thought of sending the photo to National Monuments, so that is a good thought. Many thanks for your input, it is very much appreciated. Cathy South Africa "Hi Listers I wonder if anyone can help me identify this photo of a battlemented wall, with mural tower, I think!! it is in Yorkshire, but don't think it is York.? I would really appreciate your input. The photo can be seen at http://www.picturesofengland.com/England/Oxfordshire/Oxford/pictures/1108221 it is only sitting in "oxford" until the correct place has been identified Many thanks for any assistance Cathy South Africa"

In a message dated 2/8/2010 6:37:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, sstanger@sfu.ca writes: Hi, Please - ONLY put his cause of death - as it is shown on his Death Certificate - don't make guesses. If the cause was Cholera - that would have been stated. Purpura/Haemorrhage - is caused by Many reasons - don't change history with a guess. Whenever doing any research - No guesses - they could be wrong - only information that is stated on documents. Cheers, Stella At 11:13 PM 07/02/2010, SBS Engineers Genealogy wrote: >Hi List > >I have a great-great grandfather Thomas Briggs (a blacksmith) who died >9th August 1854 in Blue Town (Sheerness). His death certificate says >cause of death 'purpura/haemorrhage'....after doing a lot of reading on >'purpura' and it's different causes - I think I will put his >haemorrhaging down to Cholera????? He was only 24yrs old and had been >married only 3 months - to the day (8th May 1854). He was buried 12th >August but don't know where. > >KInd regards >Ann Spiro >Perth, Western Australia >research@sbse.net.au >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~blacksmiths/ >I have the surname BASKETT registered with GOONS >http://www.one-name.org/ >Rootsweb surname list for NUTTY. > >--------------------------------------- >Recent postings on the Kent list about hospital ships being used during >Cholera epidemics either to supplement or replace use of workhouses >during >epidemics trigger several questions. >Many Thanks Dick Fowler > > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message I concur....A blacksmith in those days could have been breathing substantial amounts of toxic funes, especially from coal fires. Steade

Hi List I have a great-great grandfather Thomas Briggs (a blacksmith) who died 9th August 1854 in Blue Town (Sheerness). His death certificate says cause of death 'purpura/haemorrhage'....after doing a lot of reading on 'purpura' and it's different causes - I think I will put his haemorrhaging down to Cholera????? He was only 24yrs old and had been married only 3 months - to the day (8th May 1854). He was buried 12th August but don't know where. KInd regards Ann Spiro Perth, Western Australia research@sbse.net.au http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~blacksmiths/ I have the surname BASKETT registered with GOONS http://www.one-name.org/ Rootsweb surname list for NUTTY. --------------------------------------- Recent postings on the Kent list about hospital ships being used during Cholera epidemics either to supplement or replace use of workhouses during epidemics trigger several questions. Many Thanks Dick Fowler

Hi Cathy, I have just searched the Images of England (IOE) website - using the term Bastion, and with a building type of Defence.  I came up with 85 hits.  The following are possibilities: - 1. GARDEN WALLS SURROUNDING FEATHERSTONE CASTLE, WITH GATEHOUSE, GATEWAYS, BASTIONS, BEEBOLE AND MAUSOLEUM, HALL BANK (south off) 2. GATEHOUSE AND BOUNDARY WALL WITH BRIDGE OVER MOAT, BISHOP'S PALACE   WELLS, MENDIP, SOMERSET  The picture very roughly tallies with yours.  The search term RAMPART throuws up different results: - Chester looks a likely candidate. Try:  SPUR WALL AND WATER TOWER, CITY WALLS CHESTER, CHESTER, CHESHIRE York includes:  CITY WALL FROM LENDAL HILL HOUSE TO THE LODGE, MUSEUM STREET   YORK, YORK, NORTH YORKSHIRE       also  CITY WALL FROM THE RED TOWER TO FISHERGATE POSTERN TOWER, CITY WALLS This will take you to the IOE web-site.  http://www.imagesofengland.org.uk/default.aspx I would also suggest you email the National Monuments Record at Swindon with the photograph and query which you have put up on the "Oxfordshire" web-site.  The National Monuments Record hosts the IOE website.  Richard Brown Bromley, Kent U.K. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:09:38 +0200 From: "Cathy Longley" <clongley@mweb.co.za> Subject: [KENT-ENG] Fw: off topic - identifying a place on a     photograph Hi Listers I wonder if anyone can help me identify this photo of a battlemented wall, with mural tower, I think!! it is in Yorkshire, but don't think it is York.  I would really appreciate your input. The photo can be seen at http://www.picturesofengland.com/England/Oxfordshire/Oxford/pictures/1108221 it is only sitting in "oxford" until the correct place has been identified Many thanks for any assistance Cathy South Africa

Hi, Please - ONLY put his cause of death - as it is shown on his Death Certificate - don't make guesses. If the cause was Cholera - that would have been stated. Purpura/Haemorrhage - is caused by Many reasons - don't change history with a guess. Whenever doing any research - No guesses - they could be wrong - only information that is stated on documents. Cheers, Stella At 11:13 PM 07/02/2010, SBS Engineers Genealogy wrote: >Hi List > >I have a great-great grandfather Thomas Briggs (a blacksmith) who died >9th August 1854 in Blue Town (Sheerness). His death certificate says >cause of death 'purpura/haemorrhage'....after doing a lot of reading on >'purpura' and it's different causes - I think I will put his >haemorrhaging down to Cholera????? He was only 24yrs old and had been >married only 3 months - to the day (8th May 1854). He was buried 12th >August but don't know where. > >KInd regards >Ann Spiro >Perth, Western Australia >research@sbse.net.au >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~blacksmiths/ >I have the surname BASKETT registered with GOONS >http://www.one-name.org/ >Rootsweb surname list for NUTTY. > >--------------------------------------- >Recent postings on the Kent list about hospital ships being used during >Cholera epidemics either to supplement or replace use of workhouses >during >epidemics trigger several questions. >Many Thanks Dick Fowler > > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks all for the responses on and off line and for the info and links . It does seem that our ancestors did their best to get organised to deal with and record epidemics even if they could not treat the disease itself. There is no sign on the Ships List of George Robert Fowler having emigrated. I must try other emigration sites and the Navy. He has become more important as his sisters line seems to have died out. Jemima Fowler bc 1854 Ramsgate m Alfred Pay in London in 1877 but it seems that Alfred and their one son Herbert, (believed unmarried) were dead by 1923 and Jemima died back in Thanet in 1930. I will get the death Cert just in case the informant is a relative. Just to complicate things George Robert Fowler shares birth year etc with another George Fowler. Dick Fowler .

Hello All. I have just displayed 21 maps of London 1578-1817 on the MAPCO website. As there are too many titles to include here, please take a look at the complete list on the MAPCO 'News' page: http://archivemaps.com/mapco/news.htm#latest The 'London Maps' page has also been completely revised, and now has a vastly improved format: http://archivemaps.com/mapco/london.htm The 21 new London maps have the flashing 'New' sign above them, so will be easy to find on the 'London Maps' page. Some of these maps include extremely high quality enlarged views, with file sizes up to 6.7MB. Enjoy these beautiful rare maps! Kind regards, David Hale, Adelaide, South Australia. MAPCO : Map And Plan Collection Online http://archivemaps.com Map of London 1851 http://london1851.com Map of London 1868 http://london1868.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Listers I wonder if anyone can help me identify this photo of a battlemented wall, with mural tower, I think!! it is in Yorkshire, but don't think it is York. I would really appreciate your input. The photo can be seen at http://www.picturesofengland.com/England/Oxfordshire/Oxford/pictures/1108221 it is only sitting in "oxford" until the correct place has been identified Many thanks for any assistance Cathy South Africa

Hello from New Zealand Can anyone help here please?? Ruth Annie Louisa AKEHURST - B May 1901 - Croydon Ruth Annie Louisa AKEHURST was the youngest of our AKEHURST / KELLY / SAWYERS family and born into a strange situation......she might have been fostered / adopted / gone to Canada as a very small girl.... Her father Edward AKEHURST was a C of E clergyman - amongst many other aliases and occupations....... Her mother Alice AKEHURST (nee SAWYERS) died..... Deaths Sep 1902 - Akehurst Alice - 30yrs Croydon - 2a 144 After that - the children were left fairly much to "whatever luck held" Kind regards from Maree S. Gordon, Matamata, New Zealand <tappets@clear.net.nz> ===================================================================

Hi If you suspect an ancestor was an orphan or foundling sent to Canada try Perry Snow's excellent site with a datadase. _http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~britishhomechildren/_ (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~britishhomechildren/) Best regards Lozzie T

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but that's fully correct. Quite a few years ago, I got my gg grandad's birth cert & found that it had the time of birth on it. I actually phoned the register office to ask if he was a twin, they searched the index & found that he wasn't. The man I spoke to said that SOME registrars put everything they could think of on a certificate, whereas others just put the minimum. So - the time of birth does not always indicate a multiple birth. Pat.xxx :o)) A Maid of Kent This info is from Barbara Dixon's Certificate Tutorials - If there is a time against the date of birth then there was more than one child born alive at the birth. If one was alive and one stillborn, then the live twin will not have a time against the date. It is possible to check for twins by looking for identical or consecutive GRO references in the indexes. If the child lived for only seconds, there should still be a register of the birth and the death, though this was not always done.

Daur (daughter) Visitin(g) Marriages Jun 1879 Brann Albert Romney M. 2a 1461 PAINE Oranda Burgess Romney M. 2a 1461 Anne South Australia Peter Ryan wrote: > Hi All, > I was wondering if someone could translate the relationship to the head of > the household, William Burgess on an 1881 census for Lydd: > RG 11/1016; folio55, page 10 in respect of Oranda Brann. > Is the address: Denge Marsh? > Thanks for any assistance, > Best wishes, > Peter, Melbourne, Australia > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It's Cole Harbour Road but should possibly be Cold Harbour Road as there doesn't seem to be a Cole Harbour road in Benenden http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&safe=off&num=100&q="cold harbour road benenden"&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl Anne South Australia Peter Ryan wrote: > Hi All, > I was wondering if someone could translate an address on an 1881 census for > Benenden: > RG 11/938; folio76, page 1 in respect of William Austen. > Address is ?? Harbour Road, > Thanks for any assistance, > Best wishes, > Peter, Melbourne, Australia > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Found it peter It cole Harbour road Cheers Pam from Adelaide Australia > Hi All, > I was wondering if someone could translate an address on an 1881 census > for > Benenden: > RG 11/938; folio76, page 1 in respect of William Austen. > Address is ?? Harbour Road, > Thanks for any assistance, > Best wishes, > Peter, Melbourne, Australia > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message