-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] christian name Mercy Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 15:54:24 +0100 Francesco Acciarito wrote: > I have found a possible ancestor with the christian name of Mercy > (female) but when looking for her name in the IGI, it often comes up as > Mary. Question is, are the two names interchangeable, entirely seperate > names or is Mercy a 'nick-name' for Mary??? Mary and Mercy were two distinct names. It's quite possible that someone unfamiliar with Mercy has misread it as Mary or, more likely, the writing was poor and caused the misreading. Mercy is an old Puritan name. Other Puritan names include Joy, Prudence, Sufferance, Obedience, Faith, Hope, Charity amongst others. Some fell by the wayside but others have continued down to modern times. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] Use IGI with great care Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 09:17:09 +0100 EVELYN WALLACE wrote: > I have volunteered for quite a few years at a large LDS Family > History Center. I have learned that there are great many flaws in > the IGI and, even worse, in Ancestral File. Ancestral Files can be wonderful works of fiction but can also be completely accurate. The one thing I would point out is that Ancestral Files are NOT always the work of the submitter so contacting that person won't always be useful in identifying the sources of information simply because the submitter won't know where the original researcher found the data. > I suggest researchers use this website www.familysearch.org, not > only for the great catalog but also for *Guidance*. Agreed. When I first started using the IGI is was an excellent resource but over the decades more and more patron submissions have been included which can range from complete accuracy to pure fantasy. > However, unless the batch number which is given to an entry in IGI > has a letter attached to it, such as capital C or capital M--or > similar--the information is probably highly unreliable. > C=christening; M=marriage; W=will. You will not find Deaths > listed. There ARE deaths listed but not very many. I've come across a few. Extractions are generally regarded as being accurate but even these can go astray at times for one reason or another: bad handwriting in the original register, misreading lines (eg name from line 10 of the register "matched" with data from line 11 which is easy done). There are two other letters I've found used for batch numbers: 'P' and 'I'. > I suggest the submitter try to find whether any parish records are > on the internet for her parish. If not, it may well pay to ask the > county record office for Kent [which one for Easterling?] to do > some research for her. The main record office is in Maidstone (IIRC) but there is a local studies library in Rochester and no doubt in other places as well. > > I have not had the county record office [I believe there are > two--am I right?] in Kent do research for me, but I have used such > offices in Bedfordshire and in Suffolk, and have been most pleased > with the results. When one doesn't live near UK, this is a most > satisfactory method for doing English family history, I have found. There's more and more becoming available online now through such resources as CityArk, Ancestry (some Kent parishes are included in the London Parishes section), FreeREG as well as record offices themselves. > And learn to use google.com Do place searches, name searches, > etc. I agree, search engines can produce surprising results from unexpected sources. I'd also suggest not limiting use of a search engine to just Google. There are others and they can produced hits Google doesn't. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] change of occupation Goldsmith/Waterman Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 09:47:09 +0100 Judith Akhurst wrote: > Hi Robin, > > Further to Stella's email, would suggest contacting the Worshipful > Company of Goldsmiths ( www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk ) ; see > http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/contact/ - The Library, and The > Curator may be your best bet. > > Companies' and Guilds' records go back centures. I don't have the original mail nor Stella's reply, so apologies if I'm repeating something that's already been said. The Watermen and Lightermen have similar records so a check can be made there as well to see if a James CARTER is listed who fits the OP's man. I agree it would be unlikely for a time served goldsmith to then become an apprentice again as a waterman. Unfortunately CARTER is a common (occupational derived) surname and James was also a popular name so it's very likely there'd be a number of men called James CARTER in the same area and of a similar age. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Robin, Some dates (and the name of his father) would be helpful but looking at the apprenticeship details for Thames watermen there are only two James Carter (assuming you think he followed his father) listed, one in 1702 and one in 1706 the former is the Master's name as Carter. Peter -----Original Message----- From: kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stella Stanger Sent: 26 May 2010 1:32 AM To: Robin Carter; KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] change of occupation.Goldsmith/Watermen Hi Robin, A GOLDSMITH - would work with gold, jewellery etc From: Old Occupations: Goldsmith 1) Banker 2) Worker in gold Watermen (specifically Thames) The Company of Watermen and Lighterman was established by Act of Parliament in 1555 to control the Watermen on the River Thames responsible for the movement of goods and passengers. Indeed it remains the only ancient City Guild to he formed and controlled by Act of Parliament. Even today it still licences the Watermen and Lighterman working on the River Thames, the former being concerned with passenger transport and the latter with the carriage of goods. The young Freemen of the Company are eligible to participate in the Doggett's Coat and Badge Race, which has been held annually since 1715. This gruelling boat race is held each July and goes along the river from London Bridge to Chelsea. The winner has the honour of wearing the scarlet coat, breeches and silver arm badge that are based on the original costume of an eighteenth century Watermen. http://www.watermenshall.org/ Cheers,Stella At 03:33 PM 25/05/2010, Robin Carter wrote: >Dear Listers, > >I have a James Carter, who on his marriage details lists his father >as a goldsmith. I am unable to find his father listed as anything >other than a waterman[ presuming I am following the right track. >] Was it easy to change occupations ? Does goldsmith carry more >class than waterman? Any opinions would be welcome . > >Robin. > >Canada > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2895 - Release Date: 05/25/10 07:26:00

Hello Andy, The original wills from the series in which this particular Will appears (registered Wills of the Archdeaconry Court of Canterbury) is kept at the Kent County archives, the Centre for Kentish Studies, at Maidstone. It is to that office you would have to go or write for a copy. However, you can also obtain a microfilm of the Will via your local LDS Family History Centre on film number 0189012, in vol. 111, on folio 137. To find a centre near you go to www.familysearch.org and on the opening page towards the middle bottom is a search box for finding centres. Alternatively, you could order a copy by mail from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. Cost is US$2.00 per page with a minimum order of US$4.00. You will have to estimate the number of pages to order - a basic Will without a large family to consider as beneficiaries might run 4 pages, taking into account the beginning and ending of a Will may be on partial pages. A large number of beneficiaries or a lot of land to distribute could run the Will over 8 to 10 pages. There are also services that can obtain copies of the Will for you. Some are very reasonable but others are not. Sincerely, Susan D. Young, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada County Administrator, Kent OPC www.kent-opc.org Chief Executive, Ancestry Solutions www.ancestrysolutions.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Claxton" <familysearch@f2s.com> To: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:00 AM Subject: [KENT-ENG] Obtaining copy of a pre 1858 Will and Probate >I have found a distant relative listed on the East Kent Wills web site and > would be interested in obtaining a copy of the Will and Probate. I have > checked the NA and Canterbury Archive web sites but neither seems to list > the individual concerned. Russell Whitbread Lavender died in April 1844 > at > Canterbury. > > Grateful for a pointer as to where would be the best place to obtain a > copy > of the documents? > > Regards > > Andy Claxton > > >

Judith Akhurst wrote: > Hi Robin, > > Further to Stella's email, would suggest contacting the Worshipful > Company of Goldsmiths ( www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk ) ; see > http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/contact/ - The Library, and The > Curator may be your best bet. > > Companies' and Guilds' records go back centures. I don't have the original mail nor Stella's reply, so apologies if I'm repeating something that's already been said. The Watermen and Lightermen have similar records so a check can be made there as well to see if a James CARTER is listed who fits the OP's man. I agree it would be unlikely for a time served goldsmith to then become an apprentice again as a waterman. Unfortunately CARTER is a common (occupational derived) surname and James was also a popular name so it's very likely there'd be a number of men called James CARTER in the same area and of a similar age. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Hi Robin, Further to Stella's email, would suggest contacting the Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths ( www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk ) ; see http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/contact/ - The Library, and The Curator may be your best bet. Companies' and Guilds' records go back centures. Your email gives no dates, but if you provide them with factual information about James Carter - eg. date of birth, place of birth, marriage details etc, this would help them search their records eg. apprenticeship records, members of the Company plus other records that have survived. There may be a charge for a full search ie. the supply of copies of records, but they might tell you, for free, if James is listed. Do ask them about changing professions - it may seem unlikely, but you never know. Good luck, Judith

Jeanne, Not sure what the "E L Dir" might refer to but the listing for James certainly appears in the Pigot's Directory of Kent, Surry and Sussex of 1839 so I suspect this is the source. Peter Subject: [KENT-ENG] Millers in Kent I found a list of Miller's (Mill owners /workers) and my family were on it E.Clemetson 1837 then James Clemetson from 1839.Brenchley. Source was E L Dir. Does anyone know what this is please? This I am hoping is my break been trying to find my James for years my earliest sighting is 1827 in Tenterden when he married. I am hoping E Clemetson is a close relation to James. Have tried the 1841 census James and family are there but no E, also look for a death but no luck. James was born in London according to the census. Thank you Jeanne

Hi Jeanne: Watermills and Windmills by William Coles Finch includes this info about Brenchley: "Mr. T. Else of Paddock Wood, also writes: My father occupied the Brenchley Mill about 1840 and I believe hired it from Mr. E. Clemetson of Goudhurst. It was pulled down soon after that date, but the old Mill House is still standing (half timber built) and in part of this Fairman is living, who, you say, worked in the mill... Mr. E. Clemetson, of Hope Mill (watermill) Goudhurst, tells me that his grandfather came to Goudhurst from Brenchley in 1837." No info is listed in the book about E. Clemetson under Goudhurst. A listing at the back for Piggot's 1839 doesn't list Clemetson at Goudhurst as miller (although he could have been the owner) but lists James Clemetson at Brenchley as miller. Cheers Janis London, Ontario -------------------------------------------------- From: "J POTTER" <j.potter1@btopenworld.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 2:42 AM To: <KENT-ENG-L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [KENT-ENG] Millers in Kent > I found a list of Miller's (Mill owners /workers) and my family were on it > E.Clemetson 1837 then James Clemetson from 1839.Brenchley. Source was E L > Dir. Does anyone know what this is please? This I am hoping is my break > been trying to find my James for years my earliest sighting is 1827 in > Tenterden when he married. I am hoping E Clemetson is a close relation to > James. Have tried the 1841 census James and family are there but no E, > also look for a death but no luck. James was born in London according to > the census. > Thank you > Jeanne > >

I found a list of Miller's (Mill owners /workers) and my family were on it E.Clemetson 1837 then James Clemetson from 1839.Brenchley. Source was E L Dir. Does anyone know what this is please? This I am hoping is my break been trying to find my James for years my earliest sighting is 1827 in Tenterden when he married. I am hoping E Clemetson is a close relation to James. Have tried the 1841 census James and family are there but no E, also look for a death but no luck. James was born in London according to the census. Thank you Jeanne  

Hi Another page added today http://www.fadedgenes.co.uk/JohnSAWKINS.html Dave Dixon BA (hons) - Economic & Social History - University of Kent - Canterbury 1997 www.fadedgenes.co.uk

Hi Robin, A GOLDSMITH - would work with gold, jewellery etc From: Old Occupations: Goldsmith 1) Banker 2) Worker in gold Watermen (specifically Thames) The Company of Watermen and Lighterman was established by Act of Parliament in 1555 to control the Watermen on the River Thames responsible for the movement of goods and passengers. Indeed it remains the only ancient City Guild to he formed and controlled by Act of Parliament. Even today it still licences the Watermen and Lighterman working on the River Thames, the former being concerned with passenger transport and the latter with the carriage of goods. The young Freemen of the Company are eligible to participate in the Doggett's Coat and Badge Race, which has been held annually since 1715. This gruelling boat race is held each July and goes along the river from London Bridge to Chelsea. The winner has the honour of wearing the scarlet coat, breeches and silver arm badge that are based on the original costume of an eighteenth century Watermen. http://www.watermenshall.org/ Cheers,Stella At 03:33 PM 25/05/2010, Robin Carter wrote: >Dear Listers, > >I have a James Carter, who on his marriage details lists his father >as a goldsmith. I am unable to find his father listed as anything >other than a waterman[ presuming I am following the right track. >] Was it easy to change occupations ? Does goldsmith carry more >class than waterman? Any opinions would be welcome . > >Robin. > >Canada > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Listers, I have a  James Carter, who on his marriage details lists his father as a goldsmith.   I am unable to find his father listed as anything other than a waterman[ presuming I am following the right track. ]  Was it easy to change occupations ?  Does goldsmith carry more class than waterman?  Any opinions would be welcome . Robin. Canada

EVELYN WALLACE wrote: content snipped > However, unless the batch number which is given to an entry in IGI has a letter attached to it, such as capital C or capital M--or similar--the information is probably highly unreliable. C=christening; M=marriage; W=will. You will not find Deaths listed. > > Look at the "Messages" section at the bottom of the IGI Individual Record. If the entry is an extracted entry from a parish register ("Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date"), then it is more likely to be correct than if it is a patron submission ("record submitted by a member of the LDS Church") - some of those are pure fantasy (eg entries for "Mrs Joe Blow" or "born about 1600" "of London" etc.). Not all extracted entries have a C or an M in the batch number, there are other letters used as well ('I' is one that springs to mind, I think it usually indicates a mixed batch) Even in the case of an extracted parish record, it is still advisable to order the film from your local Family History Centre and sight the actual entry - transcriptions are only as good as the transcribers and some of the handwriting is vile. Anne South Australia

EVELYN WALLACE wrote: > I have volunteered for quite a few years at a large LDS Family > History Center. I have learned that there are great many flaws in > the IGI and, even worse, in Ancestral File. Ancestral Files can be wonderful works of fiction but can also be completely accurate. The one thing I would point out is that Ancestral Files are NOT always the work of the submitter so contacting that person won't always be useful in identifying the sources of information simply because the submitter won't know where the original researcher found the data. > I suggest researchers use this website www.familysearch.org, not > only for the great catalog but also for *Guidance*. Agreed. When I first started using the IGI is was an excellent resource but over the decades more and more patron submissions have been included which can range from complete accuracy to pure fantasy. > However, unless the batch number which is given to an entry in IGI > has a letter attached to it, such as capital C or capital M--or > similar--the information is probably highly unreliable. > C=christening; M=marriage; W=will. You will not find Deaths > listed. There ARE deaths listed but not very many. I've come across a few. Extractions are generally regarded as being accurate but even these can go astray at times for one reason or another: bad handwriting in the original register, misreading lines (eg name from line 10 of the register "matched" with data from line 11 which is easy done). There are two other letters I've found used for batch numbers: 'P' and 'I'. > I suggest the submitter try to find whether any parish records are > on the internet for her parish. If not, it may well pay to ask the > county record office for Kent [which one for Easterling?] to do > some research for her. The main record office is in Maidstone (IIRC) but there is a local studies library in Rochester and no doubt in other places as well. > > I have not had the county record office [I believe there are > two--am I right?] in Kent do research for me, but I have used such > offices in Bedfordshire and in Suffolk, and have been most pleased > with the results. When one doesn't live near UK, this is a most > satisfactory method for doing English family history, I have found. There's more and more becoming available online now through such resources as CityArk, Ancestry (some Kent parishes are included in the London Parishes section), FreeREG as well as record offices themselves. > And learn to use google.com Do place searches, name searches, > etc. I agree, search engines can produce surprising results from unexpected sources. I'd also suggest not limiting use of a search engine to just Google. There are others and they can produced hits Google doesn't. -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Hi Robyn, When checking the censuses for Newington-next-Hythe, in Kent, I found: On the 1851, a Mercy Maycock, age 3. On the 1861, no Mercy, but there was a Matilda, age 13. On the 1871, no Mercy, but Matilda again, aged 23. On the 1881 and thereafter, neither of them. Problem solved by finding a gravestone, in Newington churchyard, for Matilda Mercy Maria Maycock, died 1872. Sometimes people, or their families, just get tired of one forename and use another, especially if they have plenty to choose from, as above. Rgds, John ------------------------------- > Hi listers, > I have found a possible ancestor with the christian name of Mercy > (female) but when looking for her name in the IGI, it often comes up as > Mary. Question is, are the two names interchangeable, entirely seperate > names or is Mercy a 'nick-name' for Mary??? > Her surname is unkown, but she married Charles MILLER and had a son > George MILLER c1787, possibly in Eastling. The only entry I could find > for a George was with parents Charles and Mary Colcot. > Any help appreciated. > Robyn of Oz.

I haven't got any specific information about William and Mary Ann, but maybe one day the following database I've created on the Packham/Peckham name with possible variations may prove useful. Check out www.jpackham.co.uk and then click on Packham under Resources in the left margin. I do have close relations with the Packham name in NZ (aunt, cousins etc) but only since the early 70's. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce and Gloria Moore" <bgrmoore@xtra.co.nz> To: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:00 AM Subject: [KENT-ENG] Peckham/Packham to New Zealand Looking for information about William and Mary Ann Peckham from Staplehurst, Kent who came to New Zealand in 1840. Gloria

Thank you Karen they are probably the ones I have from All Saints church and I found a Marraige for William Packham and Mary  Gransbury and I think they are the same family. I just cant get the positives I need. Gloria

Hi Les, Thank you yes they are the same family. Are you a descendant? Gloria

Francesco Acciarito wrote: > Hi listers, > I have found a possible ancestor with the christian name of Mercy > (female) but when looking for her name in the IGI, it often comes up as > Mary. Question is, are the two names interchangeable, entirely seperate > names or is Mercy a 'nick-name' for Mary??? > Her surname is unkown, but she married Charles MILLER and had a son > George MILLER c1787, possibly in Eastling. The only entry I could find > for a George was with parents Charles and Mary Colcot. > Any help appreciated. > Robyn of Oz. I have volunteered for quite a few years at a large LDS Family History Center. I have learned that there are great many flaws in the IGI and, even worse, in Ancestral File. I suggest researchers use this website www.familysearch.org, not only for the great catalog but also for *Guidance*. I believe the familysearch.org staff are now building familysearch.wiki [or some such URL] and posting their Research Outlines on that. I just learned about this new feature recently and have not had occasion to use it a great deal. If not, just use the URL given and click on the tab labeled Guidance. See if there is a Research Outline for IGI [International Genealogical Index]. However, unless the batch number which is given to an entry in IGI has a letter attached to it, such as capital C or capital M--or similar--the information is probably highly unreliable. C=christening; M=marriage; W=will. You will not find Deaths listed. I suggest the submitter try to find whether any parish records are on the internet for her parish. If not, it may well pay to ask the county record office for Kent [which one for Easterling?] to do some research for her. I have not had the county record office [I believe there are two--am I right?] in Kent do research for me, but I have used such offices in Bedfordshire and in Suffolk, and have been most pleased with the results. When one doesn't live near UK, this is a most satisfactory method for doing English family history, I have found. I do love to come to UK, but it is not currently possible. Anyway, learn with the help of the professional staff at Family History Library in Salt Lake City--perhaps an e-mail--how to use the IGI to best advantage. As stated, much of it is highly unreliable. And learn to use google.com Do place searches, name searches, etc. E.W.Wallace California