>From The Morning Chronicle ( London, England ), Thursday, April 16, 1857; Issue 28179. DEATH. On the 31st of January, at Melbourne, in his 22d year, two days after his arrival from England, William Challineor, the eldest son of the Rev. William Francis SIMMS, M.A., incumbent of Christ Church, Lee, Kent.

Dennis, I have to respectfully disagree with you there - maybe you have been lucky in the registers you have been reading. I have been browsing through images on the Ancestry/LMA/Guildhall database (not all from the same church, either) and it is amazing how many slips of paper have been interleaved in the registers; how many annotations there are, some many years later, about 'forgotten' or 'missed' baptisms and how many have been inserted in tiny script between existing entries. Some entries have obviously beeen made by the parish clerk at the same time and with the same pen and ink, others are entered piecemeal in different hands. Marriage entries, as you say, are different, as they had to be signed at the time by the parties concerned and their witnesses, but baptisms and burials were often entered much later. Anne South Australia dennis bramble wrote: snip > As to the 2nd.part of your answer it is not nor was the custom to make > entries into the registers some time after the events took place nor was it > the custom to write details on scraps of paper and enter later. It possibly > did happen occasionally and possibly for a good reason. But why should it > have been anything but rare? After all, almost all the events took place in > church and that is where the registers are kept. So why not enter the > details once only and at the time of the event? In the case of marriage the > register entry is in fact the certificate and has as such to be signed by > bride and groom ,witnesses and the officiating clergy. snip

Evelyn Leslie Redgrave 1849-1932 was an artist and the younger daughter of Richard Redgrave, RA. You can get her family tree by googling her full name. She apparently died unmarried so she doesn't appear to be your E L S Bensted, but some of her works are listed on Google. ----- Original Message ----- From: Luned James <lunedjames@yahoo.com> Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:06 am Subject: [KENT-ENG] Bensted, Street Farm, Ulcombe > Hi Fellow Listers, I am new to the Kent list but an old resident of > St Mary in the Marsh, Kingsnorth, Warehorne & Ashford, now living > in Tasmania. Yes, I get about. > I am interested in finding out more about an E. L.S.Bensted, who > later married, I believe, a Redgrave. > I have a small watercolour of Street Farm, Ulcombe, dated 1914 with > the initials E.L.S.B. and a later watercolour of the older building > (I believe 17th century) dated 1921 with the signature > E.L.Redgrave. On the back is the name M.Bensted. Also a photo of > the same building circa 1900. > I've done a little research and found a reference, by a Friend > Chapman born 1849 who wrote down his/her memories of the village > and its people in 1930, to a James Bensted and his son G. Bensted > and Street Farm. > I'd be very interested if anyone can shed any light on E. L > Bensted/Redgrave and her art. I believe she may have been a minor > watercolourist.kind regards > Luned in Tasmania > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Fellow Listers, I am new to the Kent list but an old resident of St Mary in the Marsh, Kingsnorth, Warehorne & Ashford, now living in Tasmania. Yes, I get about. I am interested in finding out more about an E. L.S.Bensted, who later married, I believe, a Redgrave. I have a small watercolour of Street Farm, Ulcombe, dated 1914 with the initials E.L.S.B. and a later watercolour of the older building (I believe 17th century) dated 1921 with the signature E.L.Redgrave. On the back is the name M.Bensted. Also a photo of the same building circa 1900. I've done a little research and found a reference, by a Friend Chapman born 1849 who wrote down his/her memories of the village and its people in 1930, to a James Bensted and his son G. Bensted and Street Farm. I'd be very interested if anyone can shed any light on E. L Bensted/Redgrave and her art. I believe she may have been a minor watercolourist. kind regards Luned in Tasmania

dennis bramble wrote: > Your reply to my posting today. First I must apologise fo my > mistake in typing CMB. It should have been as you stated BMD. Umm, sorry but you stated BMD when it should have been CMB. > As to the 2nd.part of your answer it is not nor was the custom to > make entries into the registers some time after the events took > place nor was it the custom to write details on scraps of paper and > enter later. Again, sorry, the registers weren't made up at the time of the events, with the exception obviously of the marriages. It's very clear from the consistency of the writing that the registers were made up periodically and not on the day. > It possibly did happen occasionally and possibly for a good reason. > But why should it have been anything but rare? It wasn't a rare occurrence. It doesn't seem to be an especially rare occurence now from the modern registers (up to 1992) that I've seen. > After all, almost all the events took place in church and that is > where the registers are kept. So why not enter the details once > only and at the time of the event? You'd have to ask long dead clergymen, their parish clerks or those who made up the registers why they didn't do it at the time. Just because events (mostly) took place in the church and where the registers were usually kept, it doesn't mean the entries were made straight into the registers. It is quite clear they weren't. In fact, if you have a look on Ancestry's London Parish database (which also covers a number of parishes in Kent) you will find a number of examples of what are known as "Day Books", where details of events were noted before being written up in the registers themselves. Then you've got the discrepencies between the parish registers and the Bishop's Transcripts. They should be the same but there are frequently differences found between the two. > In the case of marriage the register entry is in fact the > certificate and has as such to be signed by bride and groom > ,witnesses and the officiating clergy. Obviously the marriages had to be done at the time. They couldn't not be. > Previous to the 1837 legal requirement to record birth, marriage > and death, the only standard document to be found is the record of > baptism, marriage and burial. Nobody is disputing that. > That is a legal requirement placed on the Anglican Church, (C of E) > and of no other organisation although some other religious > organisations did voluntarily keep such records. Sorry, but you're wrong. Jews and Quakers were allowed to maintain their own records because they were deemed to keep proper records. Other faiths, religions, denominations, etc didn't voluntarily keep such records. They maintained their own in accordance with their rules. Such records just weren't recognised as being "legal". Many non conformist families would baptise their children in their own church or chapel, then have another baptism in the local CoE church. A CoE baptism could be a condition of marriage in the CoE because only such a marriage was legal and prevented the couple from being decried as "living in sin" even though they may have been married in their own church/chapel. Employers might ask for a copy of a baptismal certificate, as my grandmother was and also my great grandfather. > For over 20 years I have been reading parish registers both here in > the West Country and particularly in Kent. This has involved many > visits to record offices including The National Archives and it is > from this experience that I have given this opinion. My comments are based on my experience since 1968 of a great many parish registers in a wide number of record offices doing research on some 30 of my own family lines, my experience as an OPC, as a transcriber for the LDS transcription project and FreeREG, as well as doing regularly doing look ups for others. I also proof read for other transcribers. A little while ago on one list, I offered an opinion about man based solely on his signature. I drew on my experience of reading signatures in a vast number of marriage registers. How accurate was my opinion? Almost spot on and the man in question was nothing to do with me or with any of my family lines! -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Hello Charani, Your reply to my posting today. First I must apologise fo my mistake in typing CMB. It should have been as you stated BMD. As to the 2nd.part of your answer it is not nor was the custom to make entries into the registers some time after the events took place nor was it the custom to write details on scraps of paper and enter later. It possibly did happen occasionally and possibly for a good reason. But why should it have been anything but rare? After all, almost all the events took place in church and that is where the registers are kept. So why not enter the details once only and at the time of the event? In the case of marriage the register entry is in fact the certificate and has as such to be signed by bride and groom ,witnesses and the officiating clergy. Previous to the 1837 legal requirement to record birth, marriage and death, the only standard document to be found is the record of baptism, marriage and burial. That is a legal requirement placed on the Anglican Church, (C of E) and of no other organisation although some other religious organisations did voluntarily keep such records. For over 20 years I have been reading parish registers both here in the West Country and particularly in Kent. This has involved many visits to record offices including The National Archives and it is from this experience that I have given this opinion. Kind regards, Dennis Bramble. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" <charani.b@gmail.com> To: "dennis bramble" <d.bramble@mypostoffice.co.uk> Cc: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] RECORDS > dennis bramble wrote: >> Your best chance is to find the parish register of the parish where >> Leonard was buried.These parish registers record the b.m.d's of the >> parish where each event occourred. > > The parish registers have a record of the CMBs for the parish, not the > BMDs although some baptism (christening) registers do give the date of > birth and some burial registers do give a cause of death but not usually > the date of death. The additional information wasn't required by law and > is only included at the whim of the incumbent or parish clerk or whoever > made up the registers. > > The registers weren't made up at the time of the event but were done once > a week, once a month or even one a quarter or longer. In the interim, the > baptisms and burials were noted on scraps of paper or, worse, committed to > memory with the result that some events were missed out of the registers > altogether. For that reason it's always worth checking the Bishop's > Transcripts (BTs)as well because sometimes an event missed from the > registers is included in the BTs. > > -- > Charani (UK) (who's currently working in a record office) > OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM > Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM > http://wsom-opc.org.uk > > ______________________________________________ This email has been > scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email > ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email

>From Colonial Times ( Hobart, Tas.: 1828-1857 ) ( Australia ) Saturday 3 January 1857. Page 2 of 4. DIED. At Dover, England, on the 1st of September, 1856, Ann, wife of John HODGKINSON, Esq., formerly of the Broad Marsh, Tasmania.

Hi, would like to get in touch with any list members who are descendents of Isaac Dobell of Cranbrook. My family descend from Edward Dobell, possibly born out of wedlock, in Cranbrook in the early 1800s; no baptisms known. Edward Dobell abruptly changed his surname to Rummens around 1851; possibly he had to enquire about his birthplace and parents to fill in the census and found that he was actually descended from John Rummens and Abigail Dobell, daughter of Isaac. Given that there are no records and no way except for DNA testing to confirm if Edward was Abigail's son, I would very much like to get in touch with other members of Isaac or Abigail's family (including those further back and those descended from other children of the marriage of John Rummens and Abigail Dobell) and see if we can establish any links via DNA. Keen to chat to anyone with links or info! thanks.

dennis bramble wrote: > Your best chance is to find the parish register > of the parish where Leonard was buried.These parish registers record the > b.m.d's of the parish where each event occourred. The parish registers have a record of the CMBs for the parish, not the BMDs although some baptism (christening) registers do give the date of birth and some burial registers do give a cause of death but not usually the date of death. The additional information wasn't required by law and is only included at the whim of the incumbent or parish clerk or whoever made up the registers. The registers weren't made up at the time of the event but were done once a week, once a month or even one a quarter or longer. In the interim, the baptisms and burials were noted on scraps of paper or, worse, committed to memory with the result that some events were missed out of the registers altogether. For that reason it's always worth checking the Bishop's Transcripts (BTs)as well because sometimes an event missed from the registers is included in the BTs. -- Charani (UK) (who's currently working in a record office) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Linda Lambkin wrote: > Hi Could some one please tell me were to send for Death record. > I found Leonard Lamkin Bur 9 July 1763 Horsmonden. Would like to > send for it. I keep getting my emails back. I found him on the > Family search pilot when looking up for info for someone else > And the cost I'm afraid you won't be able to get a death record for your man. The best you'll be able to do is get a copy of the *burial* entry from the burial register which, as you'll have found, doesn't give much information at all, just name and date of burial usually. The registers are held at the record office and the charge can be quite high. You'd have to contact them for their fees. Death records (registrations) didn't start until 1 July 1837, some 74 years later. Likewise, birth and marriage registration didn't start until the same date. Who are you trying to email? What's the reason they are being bounced back to you? -- Charani (UK) OPC for Walton, Greinton and Clutton, SOM Asst OPC for Ashcott and Shapwick, SOM http://wsom-opc.org.uk

Hi Thank you all for your help You are great Linda

Hi Linda, The burial in 1763 took place before registration, so you will probably find the only record is the burial in the parish register. Usually its just the date and the name of the person buried. There may be a headstone in the churchyard. If he lived in the area for some time, then you may find a marriage and children on the same film. You can order the film in for the parish records through your nearest Latter Day Saints Family History Centre - Film Number - FHL BRITISH Film 963000 Item 2 http://www.familysearch.org/eng/library/fhlcatalog/supermainframeset.asp?display=titledetails&titleno=125229&disp=Horsmonden%2C++Kent++County%2C++England% &columns=*,0,0 You can find your nearest research centre at the bottom of the homepage on www.familysearch.org Cheers Trish Nowra NSW > Hi Could some one please tell me were to send for Death record. > I found Leonard Lamkin Bur 9 July 1763 Horsmonden. Would like to send for > it. I keep getting my emails back. I found him on the Family search pilot > when looking up for info for someone else And the cost Thanks Linda

Hello Linda, The only LAMKIN headstone in Horsmonden at the time of Leland Duncan's transcripts during 1922 was the following: "151. John LAMBKIN [sic - note variant spelling] of this parish died 29 August 1859 aged 78. Upwards of 50 years servant in General Goldsmid's family. Honesty is the best policy" So, it is unlikely that your fellow's monument has survived, or if it has, that it's readable. I see that you are in Canada, so you should acquaint yourself with your local LDS Family History Centre through which the parish registers for Horsmonden can be rented on the following films - you would be interested initially in #1, below: 1. Baptisms, marriages, and burials, 1558-1732. - Film #0992521 Item 2 2. List of rectors, 1542-1866. Baptisms, 1733-1850, 1785-1813. Burials, 1733-1839. Burials in wool, 1678-1749, 1784-1813. Marriages, 1733-1876. Banns, 1754-1812, 1823-1856. - Film #0992522 3. Baptisms, 1850-1876. Banns, 1856-1876. - Film #0992523 Item 1 4. Burials, 1813-1873. Marriages, 1876-Aug. 1888. - Film #02354813 Items 14 - 15 5. Marriages, June 1888-1893. Baptisms, 1876-1886. Banns, 1856-1908 (titleboard incorrect). Baptisms, 1886-1930. Marriages, 1893-1951. Burials, 1874-1958. - Film #2354814 Items 1 - 8 Other Monumental Inscriptions at Horsmonden can be accessed via the Kent OPC project, Horsmonden parish page at http://www.kent-opc.org/Parishes/Horsmonden.html or directly on the Kent Archaeological Society's website at http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Libr/MIs/MIsHorsmonden/01.htm If you need help locating a Family History Centre, visit this page http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp Yours sincerely, Susan D. Young County Administrator, Kent OPC administrator@kent-opc.org www.kent-opc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Lambkin" <lclambkin@shaw.ca> To: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 7:58 PM Subject: [KENT-ENG] RECORDS Hi Could some one please tell me were to send for Death record. I found Leonard Lamkin Bur 9 July 1763 Horsmonden. Would like to send for it. I keep getting my emails back. I found him on the Family search pilot when looking up for info for someone else And the cost Thanks Linda

Hello Linda Your wish to get a certificate for the death of Leonard Lamkin for the year 1763 is destined to fail. Ceretificates came in with the start of the registrations in July 1837. Your best chance is to find the parish register of the parish where Leonard was buried.These parish registers record the b.m.d's of the parish where each event occourred. The sad thing about these registers is that some have vanished for one reason or another and some are damaged with parts being unreadable. Other places to look are probate records and family documents if there are any. Probate offices provide free access and the records are very easy to use. If you are not a member of your local family history society you should consider joining as they are a great help in researching family history. Regards, Dennis Bramble. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Lambkin" <lclambkin@shaw.ca> To: <KENT-ENG@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 12:58 AM Subject: [KENT-ENG] RECORDS > Hi Could some one please tell me were to send for Death record. > I found Leonard Lamkin Bur 9 July 1763 Horsmonden. Would like to send for > it. I keep getting my emails back. I found him on the Family search pilot > when looking up for info for someone else And the cost Thanks Linda > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ______________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by Netintelligence > http://www.netintelligence.com/email > ______________________________________________ This email has been scanned by Netintelligence http://www.netintelligence.com/email

Hello Geoff, Many thanks for the Website, there are a lot of my Kent families on there, all I need to do is fit them together. Anne AUSTEN born 1645 Goudhurst married to Nichols DADSON baptised 6 December 1640 Goudhurst my 8 x great grandparents, still looking for their marriage date about 1668 Goudhurst. Where do your AUSTEN family come from in Kent. Kind regards Barbara Lewis Mallyon Basingstoke, Hants. UK BarbaraMallyon@lewmal.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Genealogy" <geneal.eg@btinternet.com> To: "'george pickering'" <sapper393@hotmail.co.uk>; "'KENT Family History'" <kent-eng@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:57 PM Subject: Re: [KENT-ENG] ANNIE ELIZABETH CRADDOCK b1884 - MARDEN > Hi, > Marden History Group will do look-ups, and provide copies of > registers. > See http://www.mardenhistory.org.uk/2lev_archives.htm > > Geoff Underhill > Primary families: > AUSTEN, BEE/ACH, BUGDEN, BUTLER, HICKMOTT, KING, LAWRENCE, > UNDERHILL, AVERY > from Kent & Sussex, UK > > Rainham, Kent.

Hi Could some one please tell me were to send for Death record. I found Leonard Lamkin Bur 9 July 1763 Horsmonden. Would like to send for it. I keep getting my emails back. I found him on the Family search pilot when looking up for info for someone else And the cost Thanks Linda

Hi all I was browsing in the Holy Trinity Dartford Pr's on CityArk, and came across the 1821 census if it is called that, and there are about 25 pages with names on from each household, that being the head of that house, I have managed to find 6 of my ancesters there, so I thought I would tell you about it. Scroll down until you see the 1801 census and the 1821. Lynne Berntsson Sweden

Hi, Marden History Group will do look-ups, and provide copies of registers. See http://www.mardenhistory.org.uk/2lev_archives.htm Geoff Underhill Primary families: AUSTEN, BEE/ACH, BUGDEN, BUTLER, HICKMOTT, KING, LAWRENCE, UNDERHILL, AVERY from Kent & Sussex, UK -----Original Message----- From: kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kent-eng-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of george pickering Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 7:33 PM To: KENT Family History Subject: [KENT-ENG] ANNIE ELIZABETH CRADDOCK b1884 - MARDEN Dear List, I am trying to find the parents of Annie Elizabeth CRADDOCK, born Sep quarter of 1884 MARDEN, Kent. I believe she was baptised in St Michael's and All Saints parish church Marden in 1884. Hopefully this should give me her parent's name, if the records still exist. I have found her in the 1901 census, unfortunately she is away from home working as a servant in YALDING. I cannot find her in the 1891 census as a 7 year old where I had hoped to find her with her parents. Can anyone who may have access to Marden's baptismal records assist me? Regards George Rainham, Kent. _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello George, I think I might have found Annie and her parents in the 1891 - they have been transcribed as Cradduck and Annie's place of birth is given as Goudhurst but the family is resident in Marden. Father given as John W,mother Annie Elizabeth and there is a little brother - Charles William aged 2 Hope this helps, Sarah At 19:33 13/06/2010 +0100, george pickering wrote: Dear List, I am trying to find the parents of Annie Elizabeth CRADDOCK, born Sep quarter of 1884 MARDEN, Kent. I believe she was baptised in St Michael's and All Saints parish church Marden in 1884. Hopefully this should give me her parent's name, if the records still exist. I have found her in the 1901 census, unfortunately she is away from home working as a servant in YALDING. I cannot find her in the 1891 census as a 7 year old where I had hoped to find her with her parents. Can anyone who may have access to Marden's baptismal records assist me? Regards George Rainham, Kent. _________________________________________________________________ [1]http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KENT-ENG-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/

Dear List, I am trying to find the parents of Annie Elizabeth CRADDOCK, born Sep quarter of 1884 MARDEN, Kent. I believe she was baptised in St Michael's and All Saints parish church Marden in 1884. Hopefully this should give me her parent's name, if the records still exist. I have found her in the 1901 census, unfortunately she is away from home working as a servant in YALDING. I cannot find her in the 1891 census as a 7 year old where I had hoped to find her with her parents. Can anyone who may have access to Marden's baptismal records assist me? Regards George Rainham, Kent. _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ We want to hear all your funny, exciting and crazy Hotmail stories. Tell us now