I don't recall the baseball team ever having a horse as a mascot but that doesn't mean they didn't. I usually say, "What Playoffs?" when sports is mentioned. I do know that a horse named Warpaint was the Chief's mascot for a number of years. Much (maybe all?) of that time Bob Johnson was his rider. In 2002 Bob was elected to the Missouri House of Representatives, District 47 (R). His legislative bio doesn't mention his equestrian "career" but a recent photo is online, and it's the same person that I knew 'way back when. Wiki to the rescue again - _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warpaint_(horse_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warpaint_(horse) ) takes you to the article about the horse and says that Bob was his rider, but doesn't give any more information about Bob. I was thinking there were two Warpaints, and that is correct. No. 2 is buried at Benjamin Stables. Vanette

Thank you Pat...always wondered about this and now at 82 I have found the answer to one more of my questions. Vivian James **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

I may be wrong but I think a royals Mascot was SCOUT the horse. Bud. Scout and end of the trail are two different statues. My minds eye has SCOUT pointing to the Northwest but then I think again and it is south east but that is not logical to me as it was from the westward movement. Indeed "How legends start". Bud. y of the message

The best place to time travel is in history books. I am not being fallacious but start in the children's books some of these are the best most direct accounts Sometime back I needed the location of a historic site, knew the approximate name , broused shelving, and Saw a county title. It turned out to be a book prepared by a historical society for fourth grade students. Not only did it have my site and location and drawing of by a capsule history of a very interesting county.. So "try It you may like it". Bud. PS this is the best place to start also for How this work. Once you have the basics it is easier to find the concise. B. -----Original Message----- From: kansascity-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:kansascity-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of VanetteHobbs@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:47 PM To: kansascity@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [KANSASCITY] Question - Origin of name of Penn Valley Park? John, That is a good pic, better than the one on Wiki. I notice the caption says the viewer is looking northeast, not the statue. :-) Penn Valley ravine - that is interesting. There must have been a stream, at least an intermittent one, at some time to have created the ravine. But at least that explains the name of the park. Folks in the shanties would have needed a water supply. Probably from wells. Sometimes I wish I could go back to say, 1800 or 1850 and roam what is now the metro area. It would be a "nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there." Vanette ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KANSASCITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Be interesting to be a mouse in a house back then.Just remember you get your skirts dirty back then especially when it rains. No wonder the men stuffed their pants into their boots. In a message dated 1/13/2009 11:48:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, VanetteHobbs@aol.com writes: John, That is a good pic, better than the one on Wiki. I notice the caption says the viewer is looking northeast, not the statue. :-) Penn Valley ravine - that is interesting. There must have been a stream, at least an intermittent one, at some time to have created the ravine. But at least that explains the name of the park. Folks in the shanties would have needed a water supply. Probably from wells. Sometimes I wish I could go back to say, 1800 or 1850 and roam what is now the metro area. It would be a "nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there." Vanette ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KANSASCITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

In a message dated 1/13/2009 2:11:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, JohnOBrien@kc.rr.com writes: Vanette, have you seen the "Then and Now" books of Kansas City? If not, it's a must see. No, I haven't seen them. I'm sure Columbia has ILL with KC and/or Mid-Continent. Or I could wait until I'm going to be in KC for a few days and check them out to look at while I'm there. I usually stay with a friend who grew up in Liberty. We could spend hours looking at them together - more fun that way. Thanks for the tip! V

hi All It was designed by George E Kessler, who transformed the 176 acre Penn Valley site from a slum area known as Vingar Hill into the attrctive park, the prototype for the city's park system. The park contains an Indian memorial, " The Scout", a statue of the "Pioneer Mother" and a lake. This is from my AAA tour book 1997 Pat in Utah **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)

They might have named it Vinegar Park! And we'd have Vinegar Community College instead of Penn Valley . . . Thanks for the additional input!

John, That is a good pic, better than the one on Wiki. I notice the caption says the viewer is looking northeast, not the statue. :-) Penn Valley ravine - that is interesting. There must have been a stream, at least an intermittent one, at some time to have created the ravine. But at least that explains the name of the park. Folks in the shanties would have needed a water supply. Probably from wells. Sometimes I wish I could go back to say, 1800 or 1850 and roam what is now the metro area. It would be a "nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there." Vanette

The area was also known as "Vinegar Hill" in the late 1800s and was a shanty town settled primarily by Irish immigrants. (Book "Kansas City An American History" by John Montgomery and Shirl Kasper) Jeanne Delaney Hubbard ----- Original Message ----- From: "John O'Brien" <JohnOBrien@kc.rr.com> To: <kansascity@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [KANSASCITY] Question - Origin of name of Penn Valley Park? > According to the book: "At the River's Bend, an Illustrated History" > > Back in the 1880s-1890s, the area was known as Penn Valley ravine and had > a > cluster of shanties. >

In a message dated 1/13/2009 1:19:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, Hawkshaw1927@aol.com writes: No, I'm wrong- I just googled up a large Texas company who sells Remington Bronzes by the dozen, all sizes, from need a magnifying glass to ones fit to put in a park setting, and my vision was End of the Trail...what they call Scout is not one I am thinking of...huge list.. and are not cheap....and I think I always got the statues mixed up when I was a child.. In a message dated 1/13/2009 8:14:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, VanetteHobbs@aol.com writes: I was guessing on the artist...still think my William Penn idea is possible. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

Vanette, have you seen the "Then and Now" books of Kansas City? If not, it's a must see. If your library doesn't have them (Vol 1 and Vol 2) see if they can get them via inter-library loan. "Kansas City Then and Now" published by Kansas City Star Books If you grew up in KC, you will enjoy ....... guaranteed!!! (I didn't grow up here & I think they're great books!) I own vol 1. The book is all pictures. It'll show you a picture of Third street in 1867 and then a picture taken at the same exact spot in 2000. The Gayety Theater in 1935, etc. In vol 1, all the "current" pictures were taken in 2000. The old pictures are: 19th century 1900-1919 1920-1929 1930-1939 1940-1959 1960-2000 The Mid-Continent Library and the Kansas City Library have both volumes. Get it!!! John ----- Original Message ----- From: <VanetteHobbs@aol.com> To: <kansascity@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:46 PM Subject: Re: [KANSASCITY] Question - Origin of name of Penn Valley Park? > John, > > That is a good pic, better than the one on Wiki. I notice the caption > says > the viewer is looking northeast, not the statue. :-) > > Penn Valley ravine - that is interesting. There must have been a stream, > at > least an intermittent one, at some time to have created the ravine. But > at > least that explains the name of the park. > > Folks in the shanties would have needed a water supply. Probably from > wells. > > Sometimes I wish I could go back to say, 1800 or 1850 and roam what is now > the metro area. It would be a "nice place to visit but I wouldn't want > to > live there." > > Vanette > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KANSASCITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I had found the Wikipedia article too, John. I found a glaring error in it which is obvious from looking at the picture if you know the orientation of the statue in relation to downtown. It does NOT point toward the east, but toward the northwest looking out over the valley of Turkey Creek, which is pretty much invisible except when it floods Southwest Boulevard. I don't recall whether the Scout has his right arm pointing eastward (which would look really awkward, because he's not looking that direction) and you can't tell from the picture in Wikipedia, but it does say "the two statues point towards each other" which implies that they mean the horse's nose, not the rider's arm. Another urban legend in the making. And Wiki says nothing about the name of the park, unfortunately.

Here's a good pic for those who haven't seen the Scout http://www.kchistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/Montgomery&CISOPTR=2751&CISOBOX=1&REC=14 ----- Original Message ----- From: <VanetteHobbs@aol.com> To: <kansascity@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [KANSASCITY] Question - Origin of name of Penn Valley Park? >I had found the Wikipedia article too, John. > > I found a glaring error in it which is obvious from looking at the > picture > if you know the orientation of the statue in relation to downtown. It > does > NOT point toward the east, but toward the northwest looking out over the > valley > of Turkey Creek, which is pretty much invisible except when it floods > Southwest Boulevard. I don't recall whether the Scout has his right arm > pointing > eastward (which would look really awkward, because he's not looking that > direction) and you can't tell from the picture in Wikipedia, but it does > say "the > two statues point towards each other" which implies that they mean the > horse's nose, not the rider's arm. > > Another urban legend in the making. > > And Wiki says nothing about the name of the park, unfortunately. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KANSASCITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

According to the book: "At the River's Bend, an Illustrated History" Back in the 1880s-1890s, the area was known as Penn Valley ravine and had a cluster of shanties. In 1893 the park board presented a plan to remove the shanties and create Penn Valley Park. It's not clear when the Park came about, probably between 1897 and 1915. It doesn't say how Penn Valley ravine got it's name. But probably after Pennsylvania ave as M suggested. John ----- Original Message ----- From: <VanetteHobbs@aol.com> To: <kansascity@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:10 AM Subject: [KANSASCITY] Question - Origin of name of Penn Valley Park? > Hi, everyone, > > Today I was writing a friend out of state about The Scout statue in Penn > Valley Park when I began to wonder - how did the park get its name? So > far as I > know there isn't/wasn't? a Penn Creek, to form 'Penn Valley' -- or maybe > there was in the early years? Anyone know? I tried a web search but > got > nowhere. > > Vanette > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > KANSASCITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Kansas City Scout statue is a famous icon in Kansas City, Missouri. The statue is more than 10 feet tall, and depicts a Sioux Indian on a horseback pointing East returning from a hunting trip. There is an almost identical statue in Kansas City's first sister, Seville, Spain pointing to the direction of Kansas City. (The two statues point towards each other). The Scout was conceived in 1915 by Cyrus E. Dallin (1861-1944) for the Panama Pacific Exposition in San Francisco, where it won a gold medal. On its way back east, the statue was exhibited on a temporary basis in Penn Valley Park. The statue was so well received that $15,000 was raised in nickels and dimes through a campaign called The Kids of Kansas City. The statue was dedicated in 1922 as a permanent memorial to local Indian tribes. It is currently located in Penn Valley Park, which is just south of the Liberty Memorial in downtown Kansas City. Several area attractions have been named after the iconic statue, most notably, Kansas City Scout, which is the Kansas City Metroplitan Area's electronic traffic alert system. Kansas City's short-lived NHL team was named the Kansas City Scouts, after the statue.

No, I'm wrong- I just googled up a large Texas company who sells Remington Bronzes by the dozen, all sizes, from need a magnifying glass to ones fit to put in a park setting, and my vision was End of the Trail...what they call Scout is not one I am thinking of...huge list.. and are not cheap....and I think I always got the statues mixed up when I was a child.. In a message dated 1/13/2009 8:14:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, VanetteHobbs@aol.com writes: In a message dated 1/13/2009 10:06:56 A.M. Central Standard Time, Hawkshaw1927@aol.com writes: And I can just see a tired looking old Indian sitting half nude on his horse in winter in KC, can't you?? I am thinking of the right statue, aren't I???? Yes, you are. I've seen the poor fellow with icicles hanging off him and his horse. I think any scout worth the name would have sense enough to wrap up in buffalo robes in winter. Maybe we should take up a collection to make sure someone clothes him in the winter in perpetuity . . . 13 degrees in KC right now. I bet you are right about the name origin. I should have thought about Pennsylvania Ave. being so close. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to KANSASCITY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)

In a message dated 1/13/2009 10:14:32 A.M. Central Standard Time, VanetteHobbs@aol.com writes: In a message dated 1/13/2009 10:06:56 A.M. Central Standard Time, Hawkshaw1927@aol.com writes: And I can just see a tired looking old Indian sitting half nude on his horse in winter in KC, can't you?? I am thinking of the right statue, aren't I???? Yes "The Scout"....the twin to that one was "The End of the Trail". I believe they were Remington's and maybe they both should have been there. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)

In a message dated 1/13/2009 10:06:56 A.M. Central Standard Time, Hawkshaw1927@aol.com writes: And I can just see a tired looking old Indian sitting half nude on his horse in winter in KC, can't you?? I am thinking of the right statue, aren't I???? Yes, you are. I've seen the poor fellow with icicles hanging off him and his horse. I think any scout worth the name would have sense enough to wrap up in buffalo robes in winter. Maybe we should take up a collection to make sure someone clothes him in the winter in perpetuity . . . 13 degrees in KC right now. I bet you are right about the name origin. I should have thought about Pennsylvania Ave. being so close.

In a message dated 1/13/2009 9:10:41 A.M. Central Standard Time, VanetteHobbs@aol.com writes: Today I was writing a friend out of state about The Scout statue in Penn Valley Park when I began to wonder - how did the park get its name? So far as I know there isn't/wasn't? a Penn Creek, to form 'Penn Valley' -- or maybe there was in the early years? Anyone know? I tried a web search but got nowhere. Vanette Maybe it was for William Penn whose vision was for a Land of Promise. After all were we not the gateway to the west and in some cases the phrase "the promised land" came into play. Just a guess of course. Vivian **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62)