Hi list I am looking into DNA testing and would like to know the best sites to read up on it all. Does anyone know if this can be done here in Australia or do I have to send to Uk or America? Any information on how to go about this would be greatly appreciated. Aussie Di

I just received my Glamorgan County, Wales Family History Society newsletter. Thought I'd share this info from pages 28-29... James JAMES the composer of the music for "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau" Son of Evan JAMES. He was born on 4th November 1832 at the ancient Druid Inn, Argoed (which was kept by his father) in Bedwellty. He assisted his father in the weaving at Pontypridd and later, in 1873, became land lord of the Colliers Arms Mountain Ash and died at Aberdarte on 11th Jan 1902. Evan JAMES, Author of the words for "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau" was born in Caerphilly in 1809. A weaver and wool merchant by trade, he moved to Pontypridd in 1844 and became the owner of small woollen factory in Mill Street where he resided until his death on 30th Sept 1878. (Below these two paragraphs it lists: Acknowledgements: Old Pontypridd in Photographs - Stewart Williams - Pontypridd Library Local Studies Dept.) Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau [Welsh language], usually translates The Land of My Fathers, but literally 'old country of my father,' is by tradition the national anthem of Wales. The words were written by Evan James and the tune composed by his son, James JAMES, both residents of Ponypridd, in January, 1856. The earliest written copy survives and is part of the collections of the National Library of Wales. The song, or Glan Rhondda (The banks of Rhondda river) as it was known when first composed was performed for the first time in the vestry of Capel Tabor chapel, Maesteg, in either January or February 1856, by a singer called Elizabeth John from Pontypridd, and it soon became popular in the locality. The popularity of the song increased after the Llangollen Eisteddfod of 1858. Thomas Llewelyn of Aberdare won a competition for an unpublished collection of Welsh airs with a collection that included Glan Rhondda. The adjudicator of the competition, Owain Alaw (John Owen, 1821 - 1883) asked for permission to include Glan Rhondda in his publication, Gems of Welsh Melody (1860-64). This volume gave Glan Rhondda its more famous title, Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, and was sold in large quantities and ensured the popularity of the national anthem across the whole of Wales. Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau was also one of the first Welsh songs recorded when Madge Breese sang it on 11 March 1899, for the Gramophone Company. This was the first recording in the Welsh language. There are photos of both James JAMES and Evan JAMES in the newsletter. If any of you would like to have a copy, email me privately and I will send it as a jpeg attachment to an email. Elaine Powell 7th G Grandfather: John James 1688 - 1725 6th G Grandfather: Christopher James 1720 - 1779 5th G Grandfather: John James 1750 - 1819 4th G Grandfather: William (Billy) Samuel James 1780 - 1840 3rd G Grandmother: Sarah Ann "Sally" James 1825 - 1880 2nd G Grandmother: Evelyn Hobdy 1846 - 1938 GGrandfather: Alexander Arthur Warren 1868 - 1947 Grandmother: Catherine Evelyn Warren 1895 - 1983 Elaine Powell President, Central Florida Genealogical Society, Inc. www.cfgs@cfgs.org

Hi Di: I hope you will join the James DNA test at Family Tree DNA. You can read all about it at their website: http://www.familytreedna.com The James DNA website is at: http://www.jamesdna.net I don't know any testing companies in Australia, but we would love to compare your results with the 57 James members that we now have in the James DNA group. It would be great to get more men from England and Australia to join the test. Gwen Boyer Bjorkman gwenbj@seanet.com -----Original Message----- From: Coorparoo Marine [mailto:diandbrett@ecn.net.au] Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 6:24 PM To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [JAMES-L] DNA help please Hi list I am looking into DNA testing and would like to know the best sites to read up on it all. Does anyone know if this can be done here in Australia or do I have to send to Uk or America? Any information on how to go about this would be greatly appreciated. Aussie Di

SURPRISE!! Here come those long awaited 67 marker results for our intrepid leader, David Mitchell James and for Doyle Roland James. We don't have anything to compare them with now and David will have to expand his test page in order to get all of these new markers listed. Wonder If I can send them in plain text? No I can't, so I will have to send them in html to the James DNA Group. I think the best thing will be for you to check the James DNA webpage when David gets them up there. I see they are all blue markers and none are the red fast moving markers. http://www.jamesdna.net I'll just include those 30 new markers here. They certainly don't match, but they didn't match before. Well, actually I think I only count 8 markers different! 24887 David Mitchell James 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 20 21 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 22 20 15 12 11 13 10 11 11 12 25727 Doyle Roland James 11 9 15 16 8 10 11 8 10 10 12 21 21 16 10 12 12 14 8 11 24 20 14 12 11 13 10 11 12 12 Gwen Boyer Bjorkman gwenbj@seanet.com -----Original Message----- From: info@familytreedna.com [mailto:info@familytreedna.com] Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 2:30 PM To: jamesdm49@aol.com; gwenbj@seanet.com Subject: New DNA Test Results Posted for a Group Member in Group James New Y-DNA37-67 results have been posted for Kit 24887, a member of your Family Tree DNA James group. Please note that the FTDNATiP for the 67-marker comparison will be available on 6/13/06. Family Tree DNA

Hi all....I have been watching the list and take interest ...... I have only a few males left in our James line and would dearly love to have one of them take the DNA test to establish where we all hail from..... my grandparents kept this all a secret when they immigrated to Australia in the 1920's they where James's. We know very little about our James's and know even less about any possible living rellies which is very sad. My aunts and uncles growning up with out aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins..... I think that would have been awful. But the cost of such tests is out of our reach and not all of my family are keen to know their parents/ grandparents past. Hopefully one day someone will connect with us or maybe the cost of these DNA tests becomes more affordable. Aussie Di James - James - Bishop - Harper - HACKNEY, MIDDLESEX, STRATFORD, LONDON, EVERYWHERE

Hi all....I have been watching the list and take interest ...... I have only a few males left in our James line and would dearly love to have one of them take the DNA test to establish where we all hail from..... my grandparents kept this all a secret when they immigrated to Australia in the 1920's they where James's. We know very little about our James's and know even less about any possible living rellies which is very sad. My aunts and uncles growning up with out aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins..... I think that would have been awful. But the cost of such tests is out of our reach and not all of my family are keen to know their parents/ grandparents past. Hopefully one day someone will connect with us or maybe the cost of these DNA tests becomes more affordable. Aussie Di James - James - Bishop - Harper - HACKNEY, MIDDLESEX, STRATFORD, LONDON, EVERYWHERE

PLEASE TAKE THIS OFF LIST. THANK YOU. Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric James" <ericjames@ericjames.org> To: <JAMES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:30 PM Subject: RE: [JAMES-L] Re: DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches > Certainly genealogy should be fun. However, when one plunks down $200-$500 > for dna testing it's reasonable to assume an individual does so with a > different expectation other than just having fun. > > Without breaching any confidentiality in our own James dna test study, it > repeatedly has shown that where the genealogy exists the dna has proven > consistent. Where the genealogy doesn't exist, the dna is proved not to be > consistent with the results of others. Then again, our study is more > narrowly focused on specific objectives. It is not broad based, shot gun > approach of dna collection by the commercial testing companies. > > The biggest disappointment in any dna test is not to match with anyone at > all. All of a sudden one is defined publicly as being alone in the world. > An > outsider. At least until someone else can come along with matching dna. I > wonder, how does that makes one feel? How demoralizing it that for the > individual? Is it like becoming an orphan? Does it inhibit or erase the > desire to research further to establish one's authentic genealogy? How > stigmatized does when become when one doesn't match anyone else? > > I imagine the result is akin to the old days when one was found to be > orphan > and no one talked further about it. In dna testing, when one is found to > be > an orphan, no one addresses the issue of why or how, except to make an > effort to find other prospective orphans to join in. > > When there follows no explanation or no further investigation or no > further > research as to why one stands alone or with very few others, then it's > easy > to become cynical in ascribing other motives to the testing program, be it > defined for fun or profit. That's when dna testing ceases to serve the > purposes of genealogy. > > Since dna is one's most personal identifier, it seems the subject would > deserve more respect, more analysis, more reporting, and more > investigation. > Instead, promoters simply move on to getting the next test subject to sign > up. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Rosine [mailto:S.JAMES.CLARK@prodigy.net] > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:01 PM > To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [JAMES-L] Re: DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches > > The plea for more James men to take the test is to HELP everyone. I will > give one example. Three men match who have traced their line back to David > James > 1669-1739 using traditional genealogical research methods. The DNA > testing > basically proved scientifically that these men all share a common > ancestor--most likely David James, since they all independently traced > their > lineage back to him. Now, a fourth man came along and matched those three > men. > He has not yet traced his line back as far as David James, yet obviously > because of his perfect DNA match, he comes from the same line of James. > How > WONDERFUL FOR HIM THAT HE HAS THREE MATCHES!!!! Now he has a direction to > go in his research--he was "stuck" before- -now he has ideas about where > to > search for the "missing links". The whole concept of the DNA project is > to > find matches. It's worthless if you don't match anyone. > > I've already discussed before on this List the FUN of finding new cousins > and SHARING your information with each other. The FTDNA project is yet > another way to do that. Genealogy is supposed to be FUN, it's a HOBBY. If > you don't enjoy it, don't do it!!! > > As Linda mentioned, the JAMES name is very common and has many origins. I > would expect a wide variety of origins to show up via the DNA project, > just > as it does in standard research methods. Many surnames should have a > variety of DNA results. Even Luter/Lewter, an uncommon name except in the > Southern United States, should have several different origins, since many > black slaves took the name Lewter after they were freed. The Luter/Lewter > name has several different origins in Europe as well. And that is just > ONE > example. We won't even go into Smith or Jones!! > > If you MATCH someone with a JAMES Welsh origin, and you have not yet > traced > your line back to Wales, then you have now benefited from MATCHING > someone's > DNA results. You can now confirm through your own research that your line > came from Wales. > > Eric, you asked "Why is there such a wide variety? Is the wide variety of > results for the James surname appearing in the tests of one company only, > or > in results of other testing companies as well? How many more varieties of > James dna exist?" > > Why don't you share the results of the testing company you use, and then > we > would all know the answers to some of the questions you ask. > Sorry, but I've heard your side about "commercialism" > many times in the past, and I just don't buy it. Let us have our fun with > our FTDNA project, and you can have your fun with your project. Maybe we > should all stop attacking each other; it's not getting us anywhere. > > IT'S A HOBBY, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!! > > Susan > > > > ==== JAMES Mailing List ==== > The JAMES Surname homepage! > http://www.rootsweb.com/~daisy/jameskin.htm > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.3/358 - Release Date: 6/7/2006 >

Certainly genealogy should be fun. However, when one plunks down $200-$500 for dna testing it's reasonable to assume an individual does so with a different expectation other than just having fun. Without breaching any confidentiality in our own James dna test study, it repeatedly has shown that where the genealogy exists the dna has proven consistent. Where the genealogy doesn't exist, the dna is proved not to be consistent with the results of others. Then again, our study is more narrowly focused on specific objectives. It is not broad based, shot gun approach of dna collection by the commercial testing companies. The biggest disappointment in any dna test is not to match with anyone at all. All of a sudden one is defined publicly as being alone in the world. An outsider. At least until someone else can come along with matching dna. I wonder, how does that makes one feel? How demoralizing it that for the individual? Is it like becoming an orphan? Does it inhibit or erase the desire to research further to establish one's authentic genealogy? How stigmatized does when become when one doesn't match anyone else? I imagine the result is akin to the old days when one was found to be orphan and no one talked further about it. In dna testing, when one is found to be an orphan, no one addresses the issue of why or how, except to make an effort to find other prospective orphans to join in. When there follows no explanation or no further investigation or no further research as to why one stands alone or with very few others, then it's easy to become cynical in ascribing other motives to the testing program, be it defined for fun or profit. That's when dna testing ceases to serve the purposes of genealogy. Since dna is one's most personal identifier, it seems the subject would deserve more respect, more analysis, more reporting, and more investigation. Instead, promoters simply move on to getting the next test subject to sign up. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Rosine [mailto:S.JAMES.CLARK@prodigy.net] Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 1:01 PM To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [JAMES-L] Re: DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches The plea for more James men to take the test is to HELP everyone. I will give one example. Three men match who have traced their line back to David James 1669-1739 using traditional genealogical research methods. The DNA testing basically proved scientifically that these men all share a common ancestor--most likely David James, since they all independently traced their lineage back to him. Now, a fourth man came along and matched those three men. He has not yet traced his line back as far as David James, yet obviously because of his perfect DNA match, he comes from the same line of James. How WONDERFUL FOR HIM THAT HE HAS THREE MATCHES!!!! Now he has a direction to go in his research--he was "stuck" before- -now he has ideas about where to search for the "missing links". The whole concept of the DNA project is to find matches. It's worthless if you don't match anyone. I've already discussed before on this List the FUN of finding new cousins and SHARING your information with each other. The FTDNA project is yet another way to do that. Genealogy is supposed to be FUN, it's a HOBBY. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it!!! As Linda mentioned, the JAMES name is very common and has many origins. I would expect a wide variety of origins to show up via the DNA project, just as it does in standard research methods. Many surnames should have a variety of DNA results. Even Luter/Lewter, an uncommon name except in the Southern United States, should have several different origins, since many black slaves took the name Lewter after they were freed. The Luter/Lewter name has several different origins in Europe as well. And that is just ONE example. We won't even go into Smith or Jones!! If you MATCH someone with a JAMES Welsh origin, and you have not yet traced your line back to Wales, then you have now benefited from MATCHING someone's DNA results. You can now confirm through your own research that your line came from Wales. Eric, you asked "Why is there such a wide variety? Is the wide variety of results for the James surname appearing in the tests of one company only, or in results of other testing companies as well? How many more varieties of James dna exist?" Why don't you share the results of the testing company you use, and then we would all know the answers to some of the questions you ask. Sorry, but I've heard your side about "commercialism" many times in the past, and I just don't buy it. Let us have our fun with our FTDNA project, and you can have your fun with your project. Maybe we should all stop attacking each other; it's not getting us anywhere. IT'S A HOBBY, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!! Susan

The plea for more James men to take the test is to HELP everyone. I will give one example. Three men match who have traced their line back to David James 1669-1739 using traditional genealogical research methods. The DNA testing basically proved scientifically that these men all share a common ancestor--most likely David James, since they all independently traced their lineage back to him. Now, a fourth man came along and matched those three men. He has not yet traced his line back as far as David James, yet obviously because of his perfect DNA match, he comes from the same line of James. How WONDERFUL FOR HIM THAT HE HAS THREE MATCHES!!!! Now he has a direction to go in his research--he was "stuck" before- -now he has ideas about where to search for the "missing links". The whole concept of the DNA project is to find matches. It's worthless if you don't match anyone. I've already discussed before on this List the FUN of finding new cousins and SHARING your information with each other. The FTDNA project is yet another way to do that. Genealogy is supposed to be FUN, it's a HOBBY. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it!!! As Linda mentioned, the JAMES name is very common and has many origins. I would expect a wide variety of origins to show up via the DNA project, just as it does in standard research methods. Many surnames should have a variety of DNA results. Even Luter/Lewter, an uncommon name except in the Southern United States, should have several different origins, since many black slaves took the name Lewter after they were freed. The Luter/Lewter name has several different origins in Europe as well. And that is just ONE example. We won't even go into Smith or Jones!! If you MATCH someone with a JAMES Welsh origin, and you have not yet traced your line back to Wales, then you have now benefited from MATCHING someone's DNA results. You can now confirm through your own research that your line came from Wales. Eric, you asked "Why is there such a wide variety? Is the wide variety of results for the James surname appearing in the tests of one company only, or in results of other testing companies as well? How many more varieties of James dna exist?" Why don't you share the results of the testing company you use, and then we would all know the answers to some of the questions you ask. Sorry, but I've heard your side about "commercialism" many times in the past, and I just don't buy it. Let us have our fun with our FTDNA project, and you can have your fun with your project. Maybe we should all stop attacking each other; it's not getting us anywhere. IT'S A HOBBY, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!! Susan --- Original Message --- From: "Eric James" <ericjames@ericjames.org> To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches >I truly question the repeated postings such as this: "We need to recruit >some more James men to have the test so that we can find more matches." The >appeal appears more as commercial hucksterism than as bone fide interest in >addressing the dna results being generated. > >If there is a wide variety of results being generated for the James surname, >the more important appeals might be, Why is there such a wide variety? Do >results for other surnames evidence the same wide variety? Is the wide >variety of results for the James surname appearing in the tests of one >company only, or in results of other testing companies as well? How many >more varieties of James dna exist? If the wide variety of results applies to >the James surname only, why is this so? > >Stating more test subjects are needed solely for the purpose of making >matches is like the erroneous genealogical attempts to produce a "fit" or a >"link" simply because the subject name or individual is known to exist. Bone >fide genealogy research starts with the name and follows where it leads. >Evidently, the test results of one dna testing company indicates there is a >wide variety of James dna that exists. Where do those results lead? >The answer is not to the production of more dna test candidates alone.

Linda, What's clear from your posting is that you have an abundance of personal issues with me, as well as an abundance of other dna issues, that do not appear to be relevant to the issue I raised. Did I miss something in your post that addresses the variety of dna results to be found among James test subjects? -----Original Message----- From: lthank [mailto:lthank@turboisp.com] Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:31 AM To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [JAMES-L] DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches Dear Eric, I don't think your comment is fair to the genealogist of today. Not only that, you also offer DNA testing as a genealogical tool. To say that the JAMES DNA Project is a commercial adventure by "calling for more men (believe me, if women were good candidates, we would "sock it to you" fellows!) is outrageous and if you feel so strongly about it, why are you involved in such an "outrageous adventure"? Do you not with your wonderful collections articles on family roots, western stories, historical photos, and historical "digs" {including digging up graves to DNA test for proof} , also have other commercial "gains" on your website selling JAMES family history? After all, any type of project costs something to run, including a mere Family DNA Test Project from Sponsorships. Donations come from the general public, commercial businesses, and many other avenues of access including government grants and civic groups. Most of us are frustrated, stymied, or extremely interested in our backgrounds and family history. To not encourage people to use every avenue of possible gain (and by "gain" I mean personal not monitorial) is a sin. To share our knowledge is also not for personal gain. Rootsweb is about the best tool that most of the "below middle income, working man or woman, poverty level genealogists have for helping to locate documents that prove or disprove their family research. It would appear that there are many web sites on the internet that feature more commercial gain items which try to pursue the dollar of the amateur as well as the professional genealogist for personal gain rather than documentation. Not many of them offer any courthouse, any census view, or anything else that is classified as documentation in the field of genealogy. They rank, according to the dollars invested by the builder, owner, corporate boards, etc., from top to bottom in quality and content. Perhaps the quest of the unknown and the frustration of the missing documentations is the driving force behind DNA. Extracting promises of "do not tell", or "do not look in other places for a match", or any other types of "mental extortion" (intentional or not) are anti-progressive in anyone's search for roots, history, or any other purpose which leads people into genealogy, including the results of DNA tests. Why does anyone have the right to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with the material, real or artificial, that they pay for? If someone has no interest in publishing their own DNA, they should make that decision on their own and chose the programs they wish to become involved in with a good feeling. The real problem comes when those very persons do not understand the opposite side of the test results, are not able to gain the results they are expecting. Perhaps they expected visual comparison with other participants, names of possible links, what that level of a match means, and many other kinds of expectations, including contact with matches. The very nature of "matches" is misleading when people fail to realize that for every percentage of chance of a match there is a corresponding percentage of NO match. Thus, the higher the marker test the less risk of those famous notes in your mail box about matches [the ones that say Joe Blow or John Doe matches your 12 market test results and your surname is WILSON]. One has to chose the best RESULTS desired test kit for their dollar. You are correct in that it is a costly adventure. There are many things in life that are costly. Including one's car that wears out, one's clothes that wear out, and food that is consumed and eliminated. DNA is not worn out or eliminated. It is always there, solid, dependable, and documental. HOW to document is the question. What's to hide: Mass murderer, a patriot, buccaneer, bonded slave, afraid of a skeleton or mixed race? What's to gain: common goals with other researchers of all levels, friends, helping hands, knowledge possible ethnic background, history of our great country. Is there some kind of a contest here to see who can "out-gun who"? Jesse vs. Jessie? Frank vs. Frances? Clyde vs. Cloyde? William vs. William? There are over known 200 "founding JAMES" families in America. The surname is in the top 100 in the list of names in America. To date, I see less than a dozen of those immigrant founding family lines that are targets in the DNA program. The Family Tree Maker project is an open book. It is worthy and there's is nothing wrong with trying to involve more people in the testing provided they feel they are comfortable with the projects purpose. You should be ashamed. Linda M. Thank __________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric James To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 5:53 AM Subject: [JAMES-L] DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches I truly question the repeated postings such as this: "We need to recruit some more James men to have the test so that we can find more matches." The appeal appears more as commercial hucksterism than as bone fide interest in addressing the dna results being generated. If there is a wide variety of results being generated for the James surname, the more important appeals might be, Why is there such a wide variety? Do results for other surnames evidence the same wide variety? Is the wide variety of results for the James surname appearing in the tests of one company only, or in results of other testing companies as well? How many more varieties of James dna exist? If the wide variety of results applies to the James surname only, why is this so? Stating more test subjects are needed solely for the purpose of making matches is like the erroneous genealogical attempts to produce a "fit" or a "link" simply because the subject name or individual is known to exist. Bone fide genealogy research starts with the name and follows where it leads. Evidently, the test results of one dna testing company indicates there is a wide variety of James dna that exists. Where do those results lead? The answer is not to the production of more dna test candidates alone. ==== JAMES Mailing List ==== Visit the JAMES Surname homepage! http://www.rootsweb.com/~daisy/jameskin.htm Including: JAMESON, JAMIESON, JANESON, GUNNISON, GUNN, GEMISON,GAMES, HAMES,HUMES, IAMES ==== JAMES Mailing List ==== Jesse and Frank have their own mailing list! Friends, family and other MO Outlaws, the era and the area will be the topic! Hope to see you on the list! ******************************************* Visit Frank and Jesse James on-line! http://www.rootsweb.com/~daisy/jamesged.htm

Hi Sara, Here is the rest of the listings for any Thomas JAMES in the 1775-1785 tax lists of Virginia, reconstructed. ****************** 1785 Thomas JAMES in Pittsylvania County tax lists: 10 white souls and no dwelling but 4 other buildings. Again, no residential setting but a plantation of work at this particular location. This Thomas may or may not have owned the lands. ******************** 1785 Norfolk County tax lists: description: "District from Borough of Norfolk to Willis Care and to Princess Anne, including the southside of Tanner's Creek, lists of Matthew Godfrey". Thomas JAMES/ 4 white souls and 1 dwelling. This is residential with no outbuildings. IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD: Christopher JAMES with 2 white souls and a dwelling with no outbuildings,. John JAMES with 10 white souls with 3 dwellings and 2 outbuildings. It might be that this John is the principal planter of the family which might include Christopher and Thomas. Worth investigating in the records of Norfolk and Princes Anne counties for land, etc. Because this list is alphabetical, it is not possible to distinguish the proximity of the neighbors using this list. ************************* 1784 Northumberland County tax lists: Thomas JAMES/ 10 white souls 1 Dwelling and two outbuildings. This appears to be a working plantation and has crop storage outbuildings or for other use. Neighbors: Because this list is alphabetical it is hard to tell about neighbors. However, there is another JAMES: William JAMES who is taxed with only 1 white soul and no dwelling and no outbuildings. ***************************** 1784 Gloucester County tax lists: Thomas JAMES is listed in Kingston Parish taxes in the lists of Thomas SMITH.. Thomas has 3 white souls and 1 dwelling but no out buildings. As this list is not in alphabetical order the neighbors can be listed: NEIGHBORS: Hilliagn and Isaac DAVIS, George FOSTER and James TRICE. Elias and William PUGH, Robert MATTHEWS, Going DUNBARR, Peter SMITH, and the John ARMISTEAD, dec'd estate. Another JAMES is also in the parish list of Thomas Smith but is listed somewhat distant from Thomas:: Walter JAMES has 10 white souls and 1 dwelling and 1 outbuilding. ******************************* 1783 Shenandoah County tax lists. these lists are only listed by Whites and Blacks. Mr. Alexander HITE lists seem to be broken into many groups of alphabetical listings which seem to indicate separate areas of the county. Unfortunately there are no "location" identities. If one has knowledge of family history it may be possible to use these lists for other surname links. There are family names here that relate to some Botetourt, Augusta, and Rockbridge county later JAMES research. Thomas JAMES. 4 Whites. This is the only JAMES in the tax lists for Shenandoah County in 1783. Others familiar to the research into the genealogy of Troy JAMES roots search for John JAMES of Botetourt County who married into the SMITH family: SMITH, PETERSON, BROWN, BEAR Names who seem to have an association: CIRCLE, WOOD, HARSHBARGER, KNISELY, MESSERSMITH. Perhaps there are some I have no knowledge of. ******************************* 1783 Essex County tax lists: This list is titled :District No. 2-list of Newman BROCENBOUGH. and is alphabetical. Thomas JAMES / has 4 Whites only. ******************************** 1782 Pittsylvania County tax lists: This list is by order of visitation and has neighbors to see. Only one JAMES listed for tax purposes. Thomas JAMES. has 7 Whites and no Blacks. NEIGHBORS: Joseph TERRY, Ben. BRAWNER, Jeremiah ELLINGTON, John MARTIN, John OWEN, John and Martha STEWART, Francis HOWARD, John WATKINS ****************************** 1782 Northumberland County tax lists: this is a Neighbor-friendly list but only one JAMES in the lists for taxes. Thomas JAMES. has 10 Whites in his household tax lists. He is listed in the tax lists of William NUTT. NEIGHBORS: George GOODRICH, Lewis LAMPKIN, William and Sarah FALLIN, John KIRK, George GRIFFIS, Thomas and Enoch POTTS, Moses SUTTON, John GIBBONS, Benjamin CUNDIFF, William MOORE, Sarah DAVIS

I truly question the repeated postings such as this: "We need to recruit some more James men to have the test so that we can find more matches." The appeal appears more as commercial hucksterism than as bone fide interest in addressing the dna results being generated. If there is a wide variety of results being generated for the James surname, the more important appeals might be, Why is there such a wide variety? Do results for other surnames evidence the same wide variety? Is the wide variety of results for the James surname appearing in the tests of one company only, or in results of other testing companies as well? How many more varieties of James dna exist? If the wide variety of results applies to the James surname only, why is this so? Stating more test subjects are needed solely for the purpose of making matches is like the erroneous genealogical attempts to produce a "fit" or a "link" simply because the subject name or individual is known to exist. Bone fide genealogy research starts with the name and follows where it leads. Evidently, the test results of one dna testing company indicates there is a wide variety of James dna that exists. Where do those results lead? The answer is not to the production of more dna test candidates alone.

Seeing that you wish to make this a public rebuttal (after which I will not demean the public readers with further comments upon the subject: "As I only had contact with you in 2000 when I sent you the copy of the papers from the Texas Rangers archives for a JAMES ranger, I doubt I have much issue with you personally but do object to your off-hand pokes at genealogy in general by bad comments upon other activities Sorry to offend you but I am sure you are big enough to handle most anything. About the grist of our past contact was the discovery that our supposed Harry JAMES who had a son also nick-named his son "Buddy"......" __________________ Linda M. Thank lthank@turboisp.com __________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric James To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:05 AM Subject: [JAMES-L] DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches Linda, What's clear from your posting is that you have an abundance of personal issues with me, as well as an abundance of other dna issues, that do not appear to be relevant to the issue I raised. Did I miss something in your post that addresses the variety of dna results to be found among James test subjects? -----Original Message----- From: lthank [mailto:lthank@turboisp.com] Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 10:31 AM To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [JAMES-L] DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches Dear Eric, I don't think your comment is fair to the genealogist of today. Not only that, you also offer DNA testing as a genealogical tool. To say that the JAMES DNA Project is a commercial adventure by "calling for more men (believe me, if women were good candidates, we would "sock it to you" fellows!) is outrageous and if you feel so strongly about it, why are you involved in such an "outrageous adventure"? Do you not with your wonderful collections articles on family roots, western stories, historical photos, and historical "digs" {including digging up graves to DNA test for proof} , also have other commercial "gains" on your website selling JAMES family history? After all, any type of project costs something to run, including a mere Family DNA Test Project from Sponsorships. Donations come from the general public, commercial businesses, and many other avenues of access including government grants and civic groups. Most of us are frustrated, stymied, or extremely interested in our backgrounds and family history. To not encourage people to use every avenue of possible gain (and by "gain" I mean personal not monitorial) is a sin. To share our knowledge is also not for personal gain. Rootsweb is about the best tool that most of the "below middle income, working man or woman, poverty level genealogists have for helping to locate documents that prove or disprove their family research. It would appear that there are many web sites on the internet that feature more commercial gain items which try to pursue the dollar of the amateur as well as the professional genealogist for personal gain rather than documentation. Not many of them offer any courthouse, any census view, or anything else that is classified as documentation in the field of genealogy. They rank, according to the dollars invested by the builder, owner, corporate boards, etc., from top to bottom in quality and content. Perhaps the quest of the unknown and the frustration of the missing documentations is the driving force behind DNA. Extracting promises of "do not tell", or "do not look in other places for a match", or any other types of "mental extortion" (intentional or not) are anti-progressive in anyone's search for roots, history, or any other purpose which leads people into genealogy, including the results of DNA tests. Why does anyone have the right to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with the material, real or artificial, that they pay for? If someone has no interest in publishing their own DNA, they should make that decision on their own and chose the programs they wish to become involved in with a good feeling. The real problem comes when those very persons do not understand the opposite side of the test results, are not able to gain the results they are expecting. Perhaps they expected visual comparison with other participants, names of possible links, what that level of a match means, and many other kinds of expectations, including contact with matches. The very nature of "matches" is misleading when people fail to realize that for every percentage of chance of a match there is a corresponding percentage of NO match. Thus, the higher the marker test the less risk of those famous notes in your mail box about matches [the ones that say Joe Blow or John Doe matches your 12 market test results and your surname is WILSON]. One has to chose the best RESULTS desired test kit for their dollar. You are correct in that it is a costly adventure. There are many things in life that are costly. Including one's car that wears out, one's clothes that wear out, and food that is consumed and eliminated. DNA is not worn out or eliminated. It is always there, solid, dependable, and documental. HOW to document is the question. What's to hide: Mass murderer, a patriot, buccaneer, bonded slave, afraid of a skeleton or mixed race? What's to gain: common goals with other researchers of all levels, friends, helping hands, knowledge possible ethnic background, history of our great country. Is there some kind of a contest here to see who can "out-gun who"? Jesse vs. Jessie? Frank vs. Frances? Clyde vs. Cloyde? William vs. William? There are over known 200 "founding JAMES" families in America. The surname is in the top 100 in the list of names in America. To date, I see less than a dozen of those immigrant founding family lines that are targets in the DNA program. The Family Tree Maker project is an open book. It is worthy and there's is nothing wrong with trying to involve more people in the testing provided they feel they are comfortable with the projects purpose. You should be ashamed. Linda M. Thank __________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric James To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 5:53 AM Subject: [JAMES-L] DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches I truly question the repeated postings such as this: "We need to recruit some more James men to have the test so that we can find more matches." The appeal appears more as commercial hucksterism than as bone fide interest in addressing the dna results being generated. If there is a wide variety of results being generated for the James surname, the more important appeals might be, Why is there such a wide variety? Do results for other surnames evidence the same wide variety? Is the wide variety of results for the James surname appearing in the tests of one company only, or in results of other testing companies as well? How many more varieties of James dna exist? If the wide variety of results applies to the James surname only, why is this so? Stating more test subjects are needed solely for the purpose of making matches is like the erroneous genealogical attempts to produce a "fit" or a "link" simply because the subject name or individual is known to exist. Bone fide genealogy research starts with the name and follows where it leads. Evidently, the test results of one dna testing company indicates there is a wide variety of James dna that exists. Where do those results lead? The answer is not to the production of more dna test candidates alone. ==== JAMES Mailing List ==== Visit the JAMES Surname homepage! http://www.rootsweb.com/~daisy/jameskin.htm Including: JAMESON, JAMIESON, JANESON, GUNNISON, GUNN, GEMISON,GAMES, HAMES,HUMES, IAMES ==== JAMES Mailing List ==== Jesse and Frank have their own mailing list! Friends, family and other MO Outlaws, the era and the area will be the topic! Hope to see you on the list! ******************************************* Visit Frank and Jesse James on-line! http://www.rootsweb.com/~daisy/jamesged.htm ==== JAMES Mailing List ==== List problems? First, read the Welcome Message that you received when you subscribed to this list. Feel free to contact Yvonne James-Henderson,list administrator mailto:daisysroots@yahoo.com with questions concerning this list! Visit the JAMES Surname homepage! http://www.rootsweb.com/~daisy/jameskin.htm

Hi Sara, In case you don't have this information, I extracted these Thomas' from the Virginia Tax lists before 1890: Taxed 1785 in Princes Ann County: Thomas James/ no dwellings one white person 2 other buildings. This looks like a plantation where there was storage for crops and Thomas was likely the "overseer" but not living on the place. These are deductions by the reading of the taxes and how they were made off the tax roll list. Often sons or relatives did these things for family for a living. If Thomas was young he would likely have been given the responsibility but not married yet. The interesting thing is the NEIGHBORS! WOODHOUSE! This is a genealogy which is available on line and has a JAMES marriage of the same circa "in general". The links can be found in the LDS site FamilySearch.com Neighbors list: Jonathan jr. WOODHOUSE, John jr JAMES , Pembrook JAMES (we had this DNA ancestral target in the James DNA Project lists), William sr. JAMES, Elizabeth JAMES, and John sr JAMES. Also, for background research of other neighbors: Joshua LAMOUNT, Solomon MALBONE, Moses jr. McCLALIN, Jonathan FENTRESS., Francis WOODHOUSE, Henry MOORE, John jr. and Willoughby DYER, and Thomas and Jonathan WARD. Remember, surname spellings are not always correct due to the speller who did the writing for the event! The records in Princess Anne are quite compatible with Culpeper, Spotsylvania, and Fauquier County including many who migrated to Kentucky and Tennessee. Boundary re-sets also moved people from one county to another. __________________ Linda M. Thank lthank@turboisp.com __________________

Dear Eric, I don't think your comment is fair to the genealogist of today. Not only that, you also offer DNA testing as a genealogical tool. To say that the JAMES DNA Project is a commercial adventure by "calling for more men (believe me, if women were good candidates, we would "sock it to you" fellows!) is outrageous and if you feel so strongly about it, why are you involved in such an "outrageous adventure"? Do you not with your wonderful collections articles on family roots, western stories, historical photos, and historical "digs" {including digging up graves to DNA test for proof} , also have other commercial "gains" on your website selling JAMES family history? After all, any type of project costs something to run, including a mere Family DNA Test Project from Sponsorships. Donations come from the general public, commercial businesses, and many other avenues of access including government grants and civic groups. Most of us are frustrated, stymied, or extremely interested in our backgrounds and family history. To not encourage people to use every avenue of possible gain (and by "gain" I mean personal not monitorial) is a sin. To share our knowledge is also not for personal gain. Rootsweb is about the best tool that most of the "below middle income, working man or woman, poverty level genealogists have for helping to locate documents that prove or disprove their family research. It would appear that there are many web sites on the internet that feature more commercial gain items which try to pursue the dollar of the amateur as well as the professional genealogist for personal gain rather than documentation. Not many of them offer any courthouse, any census view, or anything else that is classified as documentation in the field of genealogy. They rank, according to the dollars invested by the builder, owner, corporate boards, etc., from top to bottom in quality and content. Perhaps the quest of the unknown and the frustration of the missing documentations is the driving force behind DNA. Extracting promises of "do not tell", or "do not look in other places for a match", or any other types of "mental extortion" (intentional or not) are anti-progressive in anyone's search for roots, history, or any other purpose which leads people into genealogy, including the results of DNA tests. Why does anyone have the right to tell someone else what they can or cannot do with the material, real or artificial, that they pay for? If someone has no interest in publishing their own DNA, they should make that decision on their own and chose the programs they wish to become involved in with a good feeling. The real problem comes when those very persons do not understand the opposite side of the test results, are not able to gain the results they are expecting. Perhaps they expected visual comparison with other participants, names of possible links, what that level of a match means, and many other kinds of expectations, including contact with matches. The very nature of "matches" is misleading when people fail to realize that for every percentage of chance of a match there is a corresponding percentage of NO match. Thus, the higher the marker test the less risk of those famous notes in your mail box about matches [the ones that say Joe Blow or John Doe matches your 12 market test results and your surname is WILSON]. One has to chose the best RESULTS desired test kit for their dollar. You are correct in that it is a costly adventure. There are many things in life that are costly. Including one's car that wears out, one's clothes that wear out, and food that is consumed and eliminated. DNA is not worn out or eliminated. It is always there, solid, dependable, and documental. HOW to document is the question. What's to hide: Mass murderer, a patriot, buccaneer, bonded slave, afraid of a skeleton or mixed race? What's to gain: common goals with other researchers of all levels, friends, helping hands, knowledge possible ethnic background, history of our great country. Is there some kind of a contest here to see who can "out-gun who"? Jesse vs. Jessie? Frank vs. Frances? Clyde vs. Cloyde? William vs. William? There are over known 200 "founding JAMES" families in America. The surname is in the top 100 in the list of names in America. To date, I see less than a dozen of those immigrant founding family lines that are targets in the DNA program. The Family Tree Maker project is an open book. It is worthy and there's is nothing wrong with trying to involve more people in the testing provided they feel they are comfortable with the projects purpose. You should be ashamed. Linda M. Thank __________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric James To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 5:53 AM Subject: [JAMES-L] DNA results & the Need to Produce Matches I truly question the repeated postings such as this: "We need to recruit some more James men to have the test so that we can find more matches." The appeal appears more as commercial hucksterism than as bone fide interest in addressing the dna results being generated. If there is a wide variety of results being generated for the James surname, the more important appeals might be, Why is there such a wide variety? Do results for other surnames evidence the same wide variety? Is the wide variety of results for the James surname appearing in the tests of one company only, or in results of other testing companies as well? How many more varieties of James dna exist? If the wide variety of results applies to the James surname only, why is this so? Stating more test subjects are needed solely for the purpose of making matches is like the erroneous genealogical attempts to produce a "fit" or a "link" simply because the subject name or individual is known to exist. Bone fide genealogy research starts with the name and follows where it leads. Evidently, the test results of one dna testing company indicates there is a wide variety of James dna that exists. Where do those results lead? The answer is not to the production of more dna test candidates alone. ==== JAMES Mailing List ==== Visit the JAMES Surname homepage! http://www.rootsweb.com/~daisy/jameskin.htm Including: JAMESON, JAMIESON, JANESON, GUNNISON, GUNN, GEMISON,GAMES, HAMES,HUMES, IAMES

Hi James List: Troy James received his 25 marker results tonight and he does not have any matches in the James DNA group. We need to recruit some more James men to have the test so that we can find more matches. Linda has been trying to recruit someone to join in the test that will match Troy. So if you know any Rockbridge or Botetourt Co, VA James, please let us know. Everyone be sure and check our James DNA test webpage at: http://www.jamesdna.net Our group has 58 members and 57 kits have been returned. We are presently waiting for the results from two new tests and from two 37 marker upgrades and from three 67 marker upgrades! TROY STEPHEN JAMES #45580 E-mail: Troy James tiago1@sbcglobal.net E-mail: Linda Thank lthank@turboisp.com Jesse Frank JAMES 1892 Garvin Co. IT (OK)-1976 Oklahoma Co. OK/Della SEWELL Charles Lewis JAMES 1852 Botetourt Co, VA-1942 Murray Co. OK/Katherine (Kate) Brown SEARCY Robert JAMES 1824 Botetourt Co,VA-1866 Botetourt Co,VA/Malinda BROWN John JAMES 1780/1785 MD or PA-aft 1839 Rockbridge Co. VA/Lavinia SMITH 45580 Troy James R1b1 13 23 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 29 15 16 17 18 Gwen Boyer Bjorkman gwenbj@seanet.com -----Original Message----- From: info@familytreedna.com [mailto:info@familytreedna.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 6:43 PM To: jamesdm49@aol.com; gwenbj@seanet.com Subject: New DNA Test Results Posted for a Group Member in Group James New Y-DNA13-25 results have been posted for Kit 45580, a member of your James group. Please remind your Group member to add his results at www.Ysearch.org, the FTDNA sponsored public database. When going to the Y-DNA Matches tab at his personal page, he will see an explanation and a link for the upload. Family Tree DNA

Hi James List: We have some new 12 marker DNA results today for Charles Olan Damron. He has a unique James Line in being from the Haplogroup K2. K2 The K lineage is an old lineage presently found only at low frequencies in Africa, Asia, and in the Middle East. This specific line is found at low frequency in southern Europe, Northern Africa, and the Middle East. You can read all about Haplogroups on the FTDNA webpage or on your own test page: "Haplogroups represent fractures in the tree and are tied to deep ancestry (think 10,000 or 10's of 1000's of years) and are shown in the human Phylogenetic tree. Please note that countries in this database are listed by the place one came from or currently lives. The value therefore is that it tells researches about migratory patterns, and gives information about the age of the ‘group’ of people -- after all, everyone on the tree that isn’t in Haplogroup A and B have lived outside of Africa for at least 60,000 years - and the story is how you got where you live now." CHARLES OLAN DAMRON #60784 E-mail: Charles Damron charlie@ballardelectric.com Charley James 1888- /Myrtle Carver in Malvern, Hot Spring Co, AR ca 1910 60784 Charles Damron K2 13 23 15 10 14 16 11 12 11 14 13 32 Gwen Boyer Bjorkman gwenbj@seanet.com -----Original Message----- From: info@familytreedna.com [mailto:info@familytreedna.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:56 PM To: jamesdm49@aol.com; gwenbj@seanet.com Subject: New DNA Test Results Posted for a Group Member in Group James New Y-DNA1-12 Markers DNA test results have been posted for Kit# 60784, a member of your Family Tree DNA James Project. Please remind your group member to upload his results at www.Ysearch.org, the FTDNA sponsored public database. He will find the upload link at his Y-DNA Matches tab, where there is an explanation and a link for the upload. Family Tree DNA Notifications Center http://www.FamilyTreeDNA.com "History Unearthed Daily" Family Tree DNA

Rich, Was James James, son of Howell, the one who became a Baptist (previously was a Quaker)? I have some info on him, and a little bit on Samuel James as well. Do you know if Samuel was Quaker or Baptist? Wasn't Iron Hill in the area of PA that became Delaware? Thanks, Susan --- Original Message --- From: "RICHARD JAMES" <rjas@cableone.net> To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Information on Sanuel James b, abt 1700 or so. >Hi, List > > >received land for his father James, James in Chester County, Penn. in 1723 . >Started a business in 1725 in Iron Hill. Ended is Iron Hill business in >1734 . His grandfather was Howell James. Thank you for your time. > >Rich James > >______________________________

Hi Rich: If you are from the Howell James line, we would love to have you sign on for the James DNA test. We have one man from this line who has been tested but he is not exactly sure of one of his links in his line. Maybe you can help us with that link. This is the way we have his line on the James DNA webpage. http://www.jamesdna.net WILLIAM HARVEY JAMES #49832 E-mail: William James wmandirby@webbtv.net John Robert James 1878 KY-/Nora Harper Robert Cook James 1848-1914 KY/Martha Keesee William James 1810-1904 KY/1)Nancy 2)Parmelia Russell Gideon James 1762-65 SC-1835 Union Co, KY/Katherine Baker [Big ] Benjamin James 1735 PA-1797 Jefferson Co, GA/Jean [prove connection?] Abel James early 1700's PA-/Sarah James James bef 1660 Wales-ca 1737 prob. SC/ Howell James from Monmouthshire, Wales to PA 1684-1717 New Castle Co, DE 49832 William James I 12 22 16 10 12 14 11 13 11 12 11 29 Can you tell us if that connection from Benjamin James to Abel James is a good connection? You can sign on for a DNA test right from the James DNA webpage. We would sure be glad to have you join us. Gwen Boyer Bjorkman gwenbj@seanet.com -----Original Message----- From: RICHARD JAMES [mailto:rjas@cableone.net] Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:55 PM To: JAMES-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [JAMES-L] Information on Sanuel James b, abt 1700 or so. Hi, List received land for his father James, James in Chester County, Penn. in 1723 . Started a business in 1725 in Iron Hill. Ended is Iron Hill business in 1734 . His grandfather was Howell James. Thank you for your time. Rich James

Hi, List received land for his father James, James in Chester County, Penn. in 1723 . Started a business in 1725 in Iron Hill. Ended is Iron Hill business in 1734 . His grandfather was Howell James. Thank you for your time. Rich James