Hi listers, I am looking for information for the men from Atholl in this last battle. Who went and who came back? Specifically those from Kynachan, Foss and Garth. Where can I find info for this area & time? Love/Peace Bruce M Stewart thebruce@sprintmail.com

My ancestor, John (or Joseph) MacKintosh was captured at Preston and was transported to Charles Town, South Carolina on the ship, Wakefield in 1716. He married Mary (Snipes) Perryman, widow, 5 Oct 1727 and died in 1731. Request a description of the forces and action at Preston. John Winskie Chewelah, WA

In the book "Jacobites of Perthshire 1745" by Frances McDonnell some of the men are described as having "paid listing money". Can someone please explain what this was? Many thanks. Sarah J MacDonald Surrey, England sjmacdonald@sjmacdonald.demon.co.uk Researching McBETH McBEATH and others in Perthshire

Is "Edgar" a Scottish origin surname" William Edgar Lockhart III

Does anyone have info from the 1700's on a GERALD BYRNE,b.ca.1751 or a JOHN, ALLEXANDER, THOMAS, or MARTIN McAVOY (any similar spelling!) who were both at some point charged with insurrection? Bonnie McVoy Treon mailto:gatreon@vnet.net

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Hi Paul and list and friends in the Brit Regiment list, I am no expert on all matters Jacobite or anything like it. However as I said, the one place they successfully recruited in England during the march to Derby, was in Lancashire, after they captured Carlisle. These recruits were assumed into the Manchester Regiment commanded by the brave, (but as history proved naive or foolish) Col. Francis Townley. It also "sucked up" the stragglers and deserters from the Regular army. Unfortunately Townley volunteered his regiment to hold Carlisle during the retreat and when he surrendered, he and his men were treated as traitors, rather than as prisoners-of-war. He and most of his Captains were among the last men in Britain to suffer the dreadful punishment of being hung, cut down just before they were dead, having their entrails removed while they were alive and then if they hadn't died with shock or loss of blood, watched as the axeman put them out of their misery. This was the execution William Wallace faced 450 years earlier. We weren't that terribly much more civilised almost half a millennium later!! Anyway I am not sure about all the sources of Muster Rolls in England and hopefully Iain Kerr will see this posting and give a far more eloquent answer than I ever can. Iain as you read this along with all the other Brit Regiment "troops", don't blush because you will probably forget more about British military history than most of the rest of us will ever learn. Regards to all from the Jacobite list. Mark Genealogist: Clan Sutherland Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Dwerryhouse <Paul.Dwerryhouse@tesco.net> To: <JACOBITES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 28 October 1999 19:51 Subject: Edgar > Dear all > > I have been searching steadily backwards in the Wrightington, Mawdesley and > Parbold area of Lancashire for my Edgar lineage. I am now in the second half > of the 1700s and looking for the parents of Thomas Edgar who was born 1774. > The only local candidates are John Edgar who married Mary Bennet in 1771. > The prime candidates for their parents are John Edgar who married Jane Woods > in 1749 in next door Standish. But then the name Edgar drops out the local > parish records for this area. I have checked back to the early 1600s with no > luck. > > One theory is the army of Charles Edward Stewart as it passed just a few > years before 1749. Does any information exist on the possible inclusion of > an Edgar presence in the army. However, I do realise that the family might > have migrated regardless of the army. > > Any views most welcome. > > Regards > > Paul Dwerryhouse > Hawarden, Flintshire, UK. > >

We are researching a couple who were married in 1739 in Perth. His name was John Sabine, a soldier of this parish, and Ann Deer, of this parish. Since he was listed as soldier, we are presuming he was of the regular army such as the Black Watch. Any ideas on how to trace him and what happened to him? I also have a unique situation that brings up the subject of the Highland migration south. My grandmother was a Meikle, and the family immigrated to the USA around 1875. I have them traced in Lanark, technically a lowland county. The more I learn about Lanark the more I realize how it became the melting pot of Scotland. My grandmother spoke Gaelic as well as English, and had in her possession a set of bagpipes and a blue/green tartan (well worn). It has puzzled me how a Lanark family would be speaking Gaelic and have such things as bagpipes and tartans. We recently took the Meikle line back to a marriage in Perth in 1750 between James Meikle, of Lesmahagow and Janet Taylor of Perth. Janet was the daughter of George Taylor and Janet Stirling. Would like some suggestions on where to go from here to uncover the Gaelic in this family. Don and Mary in Wyoming

Dear all I have been searching steadily backwards in the Wrightington, Mawdesley and Parbold area of Lancashire for my Edgar lineage. I am now in the second half of the 1700s and looking for the parents of Thomas Edgar who was born 1774. The only local candidates are John Edgar who married Mary Bennet in 1771. The prime candidates for their parents are John Edgar who married Jane Woods in 1749 in next door Standish. But then the name Edgar drops out the local parish records for this area. I have checked back to the early 1600s with no luck. One theory is the army of Charles Edward Stewart as it passed just a few years before 1749. Does any information exist on the possible inclusion of an Edgar presence in the army. However, I do realise that the family might have migrated regardless of the army. Any views most welcome. Regards Paul Dwerryhouse Hawarden, Flintshire, UK.

Hi Philip and list, I may have news for you!! As you may know, the army of Charles Edward Stewart was very unsuccessful at recruiting as it marched south to Derby, the main reason why the rebellion was doomed, English Jacobites having failed to rally to "their Prince". However one exception applies and that was in Lancashire. After taking Carlisle, many men from that county (now part of Cumbria) enlisted in what became the Manchester Regiment. It suffered the most of all. It's Colonel, Francis Townley volunteered to stay with his regiment and hold Carlisle to delay the advancing army of Prince William Augustus of Cumberland. After the surrender, Townley's men were treated like traitors rather than prisoners-of-war. Townley and most of his Captains were subjected to the gruesome execution specially kept for traitors, that of being hung, drawn and quartered. A barbaric way of killing a man, experienced of course 450 years earlier by William Wallace. One of the Captains who did not suffer this fate was Captain John Saunderson, who was described as an Overseer from Northumberland. He was taken prisoner and then banished. He must have had important friends or been very lucky. In addition, serving in the other ranks was John Saunderson, a Labourer from Lancs. and who after capture was pardoned when he then enlisted in the regular army, just as happened to my 5x great grandfather George Smith or Gow. Therefore I can't see any connection with the MacDonnells' but there were two Sandersons (don't worry about the variation in spelling) at least, serving in the Jacobite army. Hope this gives you something to think about. Regards, Mark Genealogist: Clan Sutherland Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Hood <philip@pjhood.freeserve.co.uk> To: <JACOBITES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 26 October 1999 22:52 Subject: Sanderson > I have only just subscribed to this newsgroup (hope that I won't be shot > down in flames) but I would like to ascertain the connection between the > McDonnells of Glengarry and my mother's maiden name of Sanderson. > I have been researching my family history for some time now, and have been > advised by one or two elderly relatives that there is such a connection. > I have been reading a biography of Bonnie Prince Charlie, which contains a > map showing his route down to Derby in 1745; this shows a route passing > through Preston and onwards to Wigan; my great great grandfather Daniel > Sanderson was born in 1798 in Eccleston by Chorley which lies on the route > between the two towns, giving some possible credence to this claim. > If anyone would be kind enough to give me any help, advice or suggestions, I > would be very grateful. > Thanks > > Philip Hood > Tollerton > Nottingham. > > >

I have only just subscribed to this newsgroup (hope that I won't be shot down in flames) but I would like to ascertain the connection between the McDonnells of Glengarry and my mother's maiden name of Sanderson. I have been researching my family history for some time now, and have been advised by one or two elderly relatives that there is such a connection. I have been reading a biography of Bonnie Prince Charlie, which contains a map showing his route down to Derby in 1745; this shows a route passing through Preston and onwards to Wigan; my great great grandfather Daniel Sanderson was born in 1798 in Eccleston by Chorley which lies on the route between the two towns, giving some possible credence to this claim. If anyone would be kind enough to give me any help, advice or suggestions, I would be very grateful. Thanks Philip Hood Tollerton Nottingham.

Hi Donna and troops, I have checked Dobson's Jacobites of the '15 and found the following: John, son of Robert Hepburn of Keith, prisoner at Preston and London Alexander born 1657 in Buchan, Minister of St. Fergus, deposed 1716, died Peterhead 1737 Robert Hepburn of Keith, prisoner at Preston and London William Hepburn, vintner and merchant in Aberdeen. His colleague Frances MacDonnell in her book of the same name says that the Rev. Alexander Hepburn, Episcopal Minister of St. Fergus and Peterhead was a native of Buchan, married Eliza Clark who died 1703 and had 2 sons and 3 daughters. when he died in 1737 he was aged about 81. Can't see any mention of Rev. John Hepburn. Have you checked the fasti? Regards, Mark Genealogist: Clan Sutherland Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Donna Lykens <dlyk@clearnet.net> To: <JACOBITES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: 26 October 1999 02:51 Subject: Rev. John Hepburn of Keith > Dear Listers > > I have been looking for any information on the family of Rev. John Hepburn of Keith. In 1715, Rev. John was attempting to join the detachment of the Highland army of the Earl of Winton. There was a skirmish with some of his "neighbors" and his youngest son Robert was killed. He supposedly had a large family but the names of those children was unknown by my source, although it also mentions he had a son known as James the Scottish patriot. > > Any info would be appreciated. > > Donna Hepburn Lykens > >

Hi Mark, I heard this from a Doctor friend of mine near Cawdar. He had two cousins growing up by the name of Gow. One was a Thomas Gow, and the other was Andrew Gow(father and son. Do not know which was which) of Auchvaich, Kiltarlity, Inverness-shire. My friend told me they were Frasers but had taken the Gow name because of all the Frasers in the area. He said that the elder could recite twelve or more generations from memory. The elder erected a stone at Tomnacross across from the school with his kin on the stone. When I looked up the Gows at the Family History Center I found in the OPR microfilm many people by the name of Gow. I also found the Christening of Archibald Fraser the son of Simon Fraser(The Old Fox). He and some friends skipped school. Hiding in the Heather on the North Slope and watched the Battle of Culloden. Archibald was close to ten years of age at that time. Regards, Bob At 02:47 PM 10/26/99 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Bob, >Thanks for getting in touch. I am hoping that we can have a good rip-roaring >discussion on the '45 as the list develops. There isn't a day passes but I >learn something about the Jacobite era and I consider myself a good >Hanoverian (Sutherland blood prevails!!). I have never heard the suggestion >that Gows were ever Frasers and of course Gow is the Gaelic name for Smith. >Certainly the Smiths were in that part of Morayshire and Banffshire which >was almost half way between the two sets of Fraser lands, most people >forgetting that the Frasers of Lovat were and are effectively a "clan within >a clan" and that the Frasers are also based in north-east Aberdeenshire. >Regards, >Mark >Genealogist: Clan Sutherland >Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie >see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk http://thefrasers.com This site is dedicated to all people of the name Fraser!! Please join in The Fraser Discussion Forum

I was referred to this list because of my ORKNEY ancestor involvement in the Jacobite movement. The following information, I believe, came from a book. Late 1745 John ORKNEY was a known Jacobite and with two others piloted or guided French ships up the River South Esk to Montrose Harbour. The Royal Navy sent a sloop with 16 guns and 80 men to Montrose to teach the townspeople a lesson. The sloop arrived in the harbour on the 13th of November, 1745 and fired on Montrose for days and 3 nights before it's captain discovered there were no Jacobite troops in the town. When the captain found out what John ORKNEY had been up to, he burned Orkney's ship in the harbour. John ORKNEY was later arrested for his part on the 21st of July, 1746 and was imprisoned for 9 months. He was later released with other Montrose merchans in 1747. Does anyone have any other knowledge of this event? Betty Wintersteen, Ipswich, Massachusetts http://bawwyn@webtv.net - ------------------------------------ As guardians of our family history, it is up to us to pass it on to future generations. - ------------------------------------ Searching ORKNEY-Montrose; Margaret (Maggie) Potter; John Potter, Elsie Potter, Frances Potter, Mary Potter, Mabel Potter of Bents Row, Montrose, circa early 1900's. Family of Jessie Thompson nee Orkney, Massachusetts. Family of Isabella Lowe nee Orkney, Montreal, Canada - -------------------------------------- http://community.webtv.net/BAWWYN/OURFAMILYROOTS

Hi Bob, Thanks for getting in touch. I am hoping that we can have a good rip-roaring discussion on the '45 as the list develops. There isn't a day passes but I learn something about the Jacobite era and I consider myself a good Hanoverian (Sutherland blood prevails!!). I have never heard the suggestion that Gows were ever Frasers and of course Gow is the Gaelic name for Smith. Certainly the Smiths were in that part of Morayshire and Banffshire which was almost half way between the two sets of Fraser lands, most people forgetting that the Frasers of Lovat were and are effectively a "clan within a clan" and that the Frasers are also based in north-east Aberdeenshire. Regards, Mark Genealogist: Clan Sutherland Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Fraser Andrews <fraser2@fls.infi.net> To: Mark Sutherland-Fisher <mark@highland-family-heritage.co.uk> Sent: 26 October 1999 01:07 Subject: Re: George Smith born c 1720 > Hi Mark, > > Thanks for the new forum. > > I have been over the Kiltarlity Parish records many times. The name Gow is > one of the earliest entries(early 1700's). It was my understanding that the > Gow's were actually Fraser's. > > Bob > > At 09:29 PM 10/25/99 +0100, you wrote: > >Hi folks and welcome to this new list. To kick it off, I am trying to find > >out more about my 5x great grandfather George Smith or Gow, who fought at > >Culloden on the Jacobite side, was captured, enlisted in order to receive > >a Royal Pardon, like so many others and then served under General Wolfe in > >Canada and was at the Battle of the Heights of Abraham, the day before > >Quebec was taken and at which battle Wolfe was killed. George later served > >under Robert Clive in India before returning to Knockando in Morayshire. > >His great grandsons included Sir Donald Alexander Smith and Sir George > >Stephen, afterwards 1st Baron Strathcona and Mount Royal and 1st Baron > >Mountstephen, respectively. We know George served in the 78th, the > >regiment which Simon, Lord Lovat raised in order to get back in the "good > >books" after his father was beheaded for his part in the '45 and the > >family estates were temporarily forfeited. > >Anyone have Muster Rolls which include George. The book on the Muster > >Rolls of the Army of Prince Charles Edward Stuart excludes many of the > >North-east Clans, concentrating on the West-coast Clans. > >Mark > >Genealogist: Clan Sutherland > >Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie > >see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk > > > http://thefrasers.com > > > This site is dedicated to all > people of the name Fraser!! > > > Please join in The Fraser Discussion Forum > >

Hi Charles, Thanks for your message. I am copying this to the list just in case it interests any of the other Jacobite scholars. I know that my George had a grandson Alexander born in 1780, this was Lord Strathcona's father. Alexander was the son of John Smith or Gow who as far as I have been able to establish had at least two brothers, Alexander Smith or Gow and David Smith or Gow (my 4x great grandfather). For those who don't know it, Gow is the Gaelic version of the name Smith and you find in Morayshire and Banffshire the two are completely interchangeable, hence the tag of "Smith or Gow" in the OPR records. I don't think your Alexander would be a son of George but he could very well be a nephew or cousin. Regards, Mark Genealogist: Clan Sutherland Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: CHARLES F LARIMER <CLARIMER@prodigy.net> To: Mark Sutherland-Fisher <mark@highland-family-heritage.co.uk> Sent: 25 October 1999 22:38 Subject: Re: George Smith born c 1720 > Hi, > Do you have a list of the children and grandchildren of your George Smith? > My Smith/Gow line is from the Gask/Dunlichity area, south of Inverness about > 10 miles. My g g g grandfather was Alexander Smith, married to Catherine > Rose. Alexander was born in 1771. I don't have anything going back further > on my Smith/Gow line. I had guessed that those on that line, preceding > Alexander Smith, may have used the last name Gow, but it was just a guess. > > Charlie Fraser Larimer > clarimer@prodigy.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mark Sutherland-Fisher <mark@highland-family-heritage.co.uk> > To: <JACOBITES-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 3:29 PM > Subject: George Smith born c 1720 > > > > Hi folks and welcome to this new list. To kick it off, I am trying to find > out more about my 5x great grandfather George Smith or Gow, who fought at > Culloden on the Jacobite side, was captured, enlisted in order to receive a > Royal Pardon, like so many others and then served under General Wolfe in > Canada and was at the Battle of the Heights of Abraham, the day before > Quebec was taken and at which battle Wolfe was killed. George later served > under Robert Clive in India before returning to Knockando in Morayshire. His > great grandsons included Sir Donald Alexander Smith and Sir George Stephen, > afterwards 1st Baron Strathcona and Mount Royal and 1st Baron Mountstephen, > respectively. We know George served in the 78th, the regiment which Simon, > Lord Lovat raised in order to get back in the "good books" after his father > was beheaded for his part in the '45 and the family estates were temporarily > forfeited. > > Anyone have Muster Rolls which include George. The book on the Muster > Rolls of the Army of Prince Charles Edward Stuart excludes many of the > North-east Clans, concentrating on the West-coast Clans. > > Mark > > Genealogist: Clan Sutherland > > Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie > > see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk > > > >

Dear Listers I have been looking for any information on the family of Rev. John Hepburn of Keith. In 1715, Rev. John was attempting to join the detachment of the Highland army of the Earl of Winton. There was a skirmish with some of his "neighbors" and his youngest son Robert was killed. He supposedly had a large family but the names of those children was unknown by my source, although it also mentions he had a son known as James the Scottish patriot. Any info would be appreciated. Donna Hepburn Lykens

Mark, Do you have a list of the children and grandchildren of your George Smith? My Smith/Gow line is from the Gask/Dunlichity area, south of Inverness about 10 miles. My g g g grandfather was Alexander Smith, married to Catherine Rose. Alexander was born in 1771. I don't have anything going back further on my Smith/Gow line. I had guessed that those on that line, preceding Alexander Smith, may have used the last name Gow, but it was just a guess. Charlie Fraser Larimer clarimer@prodigy.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Sutherland-Fisher <mark@highland-family-heritage.co.uk> To: <JACOBITES-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 3:29 PM Subject: George Smith born c 1720 > Hi folks and welcome to this new list. To kick it off, I am trying to find out more about my 5x great grandfather George Smith or Gow, who fought at Culloden on the Jacobite side, was captured, enlisted in order to receive a Royal Pardon, like so many others and then served under General Wolfe in Canada and was at the Battle of the Heights of Abraham, the day before Quebec was taken and at which battle Wolfe was killed. George later served under Robert Clive in India before returning to Knockando in Morayshire. His great grandsons included Sir Donald Alexander Smith and Sir George Stephen, afterwards 1st Baron Strathcona and Mount Royal and 1st Baron Mountstephen, respectively. We know George served in the 78th, the regiment which Simon, Lord Lovat raised in order to get back in the "good books" after his father was beheaded for his part in the '45 and the family estates were temporarily forfeited. > Anyone have Muster Rolls which include George. The book on the Muster Rolls of the Army of Prince Charles Edward Stuart excludes many of the North-east Clans, concentrating on the West-coast Clans. > Mark > Genealogist: Clan Sutherland > Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie > see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk >

Hi folks and welcome to this new list. To kick it off, I am trying to find out more about my 5x great grandfather George Smith or Gow, who fought at Culloden on the Jacobite side, was captured, enlisted in order to receive a Royal Pardon, like so many others and then served under General Wolfe in Canada and was at the Battle of the Heights of Abraham, the day before Quebec was taken and at which battle Wolfe was killed. George later served under Robert Clive in India before returning to Knockando in Morayshire. His great grandsons included Sir Donald Alexander Smith and Sir George Stephen, afterwards 1st Baron Strathcona and Mount Royal and 1st Baron Mountstephen, respectively. We know George served in the 78th, the regiment which Simon, Lord Lovat raised in order to get back in the "good books" after his father was beheaded for his part in the '45 and the family estates were temporarily forfeited. Anyone have Muster Rolls which include George. The book on the Muster Rolls of the Army of Prince Charles Edward Stuart excludes many of the North-east Clans, concentrating on the West-coast Clans. Mark Genealogist: Clan Sutherland Co-genealogist: Clan Mackenzie see my web-site: http://www.highland-family-heritage.co.uk