I'm a 71 year old newcomer to the list, also fairly new at this genealogy thing, and I am looking for an indian ancestor on my mother's side. Unfortunately, the only information I have is that Mom was 1/16th indian through her father, John Franklin Downey. There is a story from John's wife, after he died, that the indians were those from Oklahoma. There is also a theory, by another family researcher, that the Downey who married the indian, married a daughter of a Chief Polly, tribe unknown. For these reasons, I am primarily looking for the indian as the father or mother of the following (My GGGrandfather or GGGrandmother): George W. Downey, born 1800 in Kentucky married Sycena Polly, born Mar 17, 1796. Children: Polly Downey, born Jul 7, 1817 Elizabeth Downey, born Sept 15, 1820 Crysteene Downey, born Feb 29, 1824 John Downey, born Jun 16, 1825, died Oct 6, 1903 Henry Downey, born Sep 22, 1827 James Asbrock Downey, born Dec 6, 1829 George Michael Downey, born Jun 4, 1831 William Seward Downey, born Jan 19, 1833, died Mar 24, 1922 Samuel Downey, born Sep 2, 1836 Charles W. Downey, born Nov 13, 1837 in Indiana, died May 17, 1915 in Mt Moriah, MO. Sycena Catherine Downey, born Jul 9, 1842 My line is through Charles W Downey, my GGrandfather, and father of John Franklin. George W, Sycena and an unknown number of their children were in Kentucky in the early 1800s, then were in Indiana before 1837. Family members moved on to Coles County, Illinois and some on to Harrison and Mercer Counties, Missouri by the late 1860s. I have searched the Guillon-Miller Roll and the Dawes Roll. Are there any other such lists that exist. And where could I find leads on individuals that did not stay with the tribes. Thanks in advance for any help.

List subscribers, I apologize for my clumsy fingers while sending my first message. Really makes for a good impression, I don't think. The first line, the one that disappeared, went something like this---- Hello List Subscribers, I welcome this new list. I already subscribe to so many lists that I have trouble keeping them straight. Anyway, I am sorry for my being so clumsy that I erased a part of the original message and will sign off as--- Fumble Finger Don

that I have trouble keeping them straight, but I subscribe to each new one in the hope that I might get lucky and find someone who can tell me more about my ancestors. Can anyone out there help?? I would certainly appreciate any/all information that would point me in the right direction to further my search!! This is what I have so far---------- G-g-grandfather Joe (Joseph?) RIDENS *****No further information on Joe or spouse G-grandfather Benjamin Franklin "Frank" RIDENS *****b. 1851 in TN., d. 1932 in Madill, Marshall Co., OK. *****m. (#1) Georgia ESTER (E-STER, EASTER) ca. 1871 at unknown location. *****Georgia was possibly a full blood Native American of unknown tribe. *****m. (#2) Nancy CARR (?) ca. 1900 at unknown loc, possibly OK. *******Known children of marriage #1-- *********Docia Ellen b. 1872 in TX *********Joseph Jackson b. 1878 in TX *********Benjamin Franklin "Frank" (Jr.) b. 1880 in TX *********Arthur Robert (my grandfather) b. 1882 (location unknown) *******Children of marriage #2, as per 1910 Miracode (OK census)-- *********Cara b. ca. 1901 in OK. *********Earl b. ca. 1904 in OK. *********Goldie b. in OK. (no age given) There are indications of other children born to either/both unions, but I have nothing to substantiate the births. In 1910 "Frank" RIDENS (Sr.) and his family were in Marshall Co., OK. and my grandfather Arthur Robert RIDENS and his family (wife Minnie Lee PECK, and children Willie (d), Della (d), and Clide (s) were in Caney, Atoka Co., OK. Some of the listed info is documented, but most of it is just gathered from family sources. I will, however, be happy to share anything I have to anyone connected to this line. Sooooo, many thanks to any/all who can provide any additional information on my line, no matter the amount, and thanks to all on the list for assisting those that you can help. All take care and stay safe and well. Don Hutchins Murrieta, CA.

I am really enjoying this list. I already feel like I can ask anything about genealogy--- or any other subject and still be welcomed. I have had people email me privately telling me about this new list and I am very happy that they did. Thanks to all of you for your hard work to put it together and to all the others who have joined. Julia On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 23:18:19 EST [email protected] writes: > > In a message dated 2/15/01 8:08:17 PM, [email protected] writes: > > << Right now I am all teeth considering two years ago I didn't know > how to > turn a computer on , all the instructions said was "turn computer > on" but > didn't say how....LOL!!!! >> > > Dear Victoria: > > I had to giggle over that as I have only been on the net since April > of 1998 > and I AM still learning! If you don't believe that, there is one on > our new > lists who can email you privately to let you know! He knows who he > is. > > I use to email this good friend all the time saying "How to I do > this? How > do I do that?" Well, I STILL do! I think he has the patience of > JOB! > > But, THERE IS NOBODY on these new lists to ambush you, believe me. > We are > really starting to have a lot of fun with queries and sharing. And, > we are > ALL considering all as good friends. > > Smiles, Sandi > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the > #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > >

In a message dated 2/15/01 8:08:17 PM, [email protected] writes: << Right now I am all teeth considering two years ago I didn't know how to turn a computer on , all the instructions said was "turn computer on" but didn't say how....LOL!!!! >> Dear Victoria: I had to giggle over that as I have only been on the net since April of 1998 and I AM still learning! If you don't believe that, there is one on our new lists who can email you privately to let you know! He knows who he is. I use to email this good friend all the time saying "How to I do this? How do I do that?" Well, I STILL do! I think he has the patience of JOB! But, THERE IS NOBODY on these new lists to ambush you, believe me. We are really starting to have a lot of fun with queries and sharing. And, we are ALL considering all as good friends. Smiles, Sandi

Victoria: THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing! That's what doing genealogy is all about! Best, Sandi Carter

Subject : My New Site About Oklahoma Dear List, For those of you that might be looking for family members between 1917-1918 that were in Oklahoma here is my new site as of a few hours ago. It is Miami and Commerce Oklahoma CITY directory with a directory of permanent residents of Century, Pitcher , Quapaw and Tar River. It also lists the wifes names with I know will help several. http://brittainsbookbarn.homestead.com/ With Best Regards Victoria Brittain Allen

Seeking info on Jose Mancha, son of Juan Mancha. Jose either lived with the Comanches or was a Comanche. This was in the Frio River/Medina County or surrounding area in late 1800s. Any leads greatly appreciated. Mona

Hi All: First, WELCOME to all new people. We have been listing queries, especially of the BRICK WALL type we all, unfortunately, are blessed with! LOL So, go for it! Also, I would love for you all to go to the below web site that belongs to a friend and see the information posted there. I have posted some of my information and if you have any you think Jacque could use, please give her an email. The information doesn't have to be from Indian Territory days or Oklahoma. This site is growing and is a really great research tool. http://www.genealogy4all.com/index.html <A HREF="http://www.genealogy4all.com/index.html">Jacque's Genealogy World! </A> Best, Sandi Carter

Hi List, I'm looking for info on my gggrandmother, Eva Odom Young,( Feb 1884-Aug 1933) and her side of the family. She was married to Thomas Henry Young, who was a deputy to his brother Nat after the land rush. Their daughter, Willie Velma Young was born in 1898 in McGee, Chickasaw Territory. Eva was listed as Chickasaw in the 1910 Garvin Co census, but I havan't been able to find a roll # or a marriage record. Any help much appreciated. Thanks, Shandy Voyles

Am looking for information on the following family: Edward N. SHEPPARD b abt 1815 in AL. married 25 Apr 1848 to Sara Jane Johnston b abt 1830 in IL. They had the following children: Jeramiah ( Jerry Miah) b 9 Feb 1851 Sevier County, AR. d 21 Mar 1921 Yell County, AR. Mary b 1856 Sevier County, AR. Henry (Harry) Edward b 22 Mar 1857 Sevier County, AR. d 17 Jan 1931 Johnston County, OK. James William b 1859 Sevier County, AR. This family left Sevier County, AR. after the 1860 census and moved to IT just south of Tishomingo. Jeramiah or Jerry Miah spelled both ways on different documents married on 17 Oct 1877 in IT to Mary (Mollie) McVey b 1866 headstone date census date 1861 d 21 Dec 1917 Yell County, AR. Henry or Harry Edward married 7 Oct 1876 in IT to Mary Ann Gardner b 15 Nov 1852 Cuyahoga County, OH. d 28 Apr 1898 Johnston County, IT. Second marriage maybe to an Indian Lady. It is unknown if they was married or just a common law relationship. They Lady bore Henry/Harry a son born May 1905 she died May, Jun, or Jul 1906 in Tishomingo. The son name was Hester B. Sheppard. Any information on any of these people would be greatly appreciated or if someone knows where I might locate some information on them my email address is in my signature block. Many thanks. Samuel Weldon 9344 Lait Dr. El Paso, TX. 79925-6639 915-592-6935 Email [email protected] http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~weldonfamily

The 1885 Gaines County Census of the Choctaw Nation has been added to the Choctaw-Web.com site. http://www.choctaw-web.com/gaines.htm <A HREF="http://www.choctaw-web.com/gaines.htm">Click here: GAINES </A> Choctaw-Web now includes 1885 Choctaw Nation Census for counties of ATOKA , BLUE , BOKTOLO, CEDAR, EAGLE, JACKS FORK, TOWSON, WADE, KIAMITIA, SAN BOIS, SUGAR LOAF, SKULLYVILLE, TOBUCKSY; plus 1929 Restricted Census. Census for Nashoba and Red River Counties are in the works. If you find your ancestors on these census rolls, please thank Arlene Johnson at [email protected] for transcribing the 700-plus names; and Sharron Jo Ashton at [email protected], for loaning the microfilm http://www.choctaw-web.com/census.htm Choctaw-web.com is proudly sponsored by Many Cats Trading Co. See the unusual and unique handmade jewelry at www.barkingwaters.com Rusty Lang, Yellowfeather Choctaw-Web owner --- [email protected] wrote: > ATTACHMENT part 1 message/rfc822 > > IT-INDIAN-D Digest Volume 01 : Issue 1 > > Today's Topics: > #1 [IT-INDIAN] Fwd: Reminder - Book s > [[email protected]] > #2 [IT-INDIAN] THE USAGE OF MRS. WAY > [[email protected]] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from IT-INDIAN-D, send a message to > > [email protected] > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, > but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, > too. > > To contact the IT-INDIAN-D list administrator, send > mail to > [email protected] > > ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:48:59 EST > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [IT-INDIAN] Fwd: Reminder - Book sale ends > Feb 28 > > --part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > In a message dated 2/12/01 11:53:31 AM, [email protected] > writes: > > << Folks - Just a reminder - My prepow-wow book > sale ends at the end of > February. > Terms were 15% off the cover price, with free > shipping for orders over $50. A > list of the books, all Indian related, over 300 > titles, was e-mailed out to > many > of you. If you need the list or more info, please > let me know. > > Jim Landmesser -- Indian Creek Trading > Post > 3165 Shiloh Road-SW, Corydon, IN > 47112 > \/ URL= http://members.aye.net/~ictp > E-mail= [email protected] > I /\ C Phone: 812-738-1258 > //\\ Am.Indian/Nat.Am Music, Books, Craft > Supplies > <A HREF="http://members.aye.net/~ictp"> Click here > for Website</A> >> > > > --part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > Content-Disposition: inline > > Return-Path: <[email protected]> > Received: from rly-yb01.mx.aol.com > (rly-yb01.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.1]) by > air-yb03.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Mon, > 12 Feb 2001 14:53:31 -0500 > Received: from phoenix.aye.net (phoenixint2.aye.net > [198.7.192.21]) by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) > with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:53:26 1900 > Received: (qmail 13009 invoked from network); 12 Feb > 2001 19:51:40 -0000 > Received: from dial2-192.aye.net (HELO ictp) > (198.7.196.192) > by phoenix.aye.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:51:40 > -0000 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > From: "Jim Landmesser" <[email protected]> > To: "NDN BOOK FAN" <[email protected]> > Subject: Reminder - Book sale ends Feb 28 > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:50:51 -0500 > Organization: Indian Creek Trading Post - Corydon IN > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="Windows-1252" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE > V5.00.2919.6600 > > Folks - Just a reminder - My prepow-wow book sale > ends at the end of February. > Terms were 15% off the cover price, with free > shipping for orders over $50. A > list of the books, all Indian related, over 300 > titles, was e-mailed out to many > of you. If you need the list or more info, please > let me know. > > Jim Landmesser -- Indian Creek Trading > Post > 3165 Shiloh Road-SW, Corydon, IN > 47112 > \/ URL= http://members.aye.net/~ictp > E-mail= [email protected] > I /\ C Phone: 812-738-1258 > //\\ Am.Indian/Nat.Am Music, Books, Craft > Supplies > <A HREF="http://members.aye.net/~ictp"> Click here > for Website</A> > > > --part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary-- > > ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:15:06 EST > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [IT-INDIAN] THE USAGE OF MRS. WAY BACK WHEN > > Hi All: > > I found the below of a great deal of interest and > asked the poster if I could > send it on as she has the copyright on rootsweb, by > sending it in. She said > to go for it! > > This will explain, in some cases, why we researchers > have not been able to > find the first husband of an old female relative. > > =============== > > Last week I noted the following entries in the > "History and Antiquities of the > County of Dorset."The three entries are found > together in Vol. II, on p. 20 > and are placed in an isolated listing with the title > "The Register of > Marriages begins 1539." > > These are transcripts from the Piddlehinton, Dorset > marriage register. The > entries are: > > Mr. Robert Swain and Mrs. Eleanor Churchill - 1656 > (year) > Mr. Henry Churchill and Mrs. Hannah Galler - 1661 > Mr. Henry Churchill and Mrs. Elizabeth Cheek - 1682 > > I have seen the Henry and Galler/Cheek marriages > from other sources but > without the use of Mr. for Henry. I had always > assumed that the use of Mrs. > simply indicated that Henry had married widows. > However, I knew that THIS > Eleanor Churchill WAS unmarried, so the use of > Mistress for Eleanor could not > be an > indicator of her marital status. > > After a bit of research and confirming queries from > individuals knowledgeable > on the subject, I discovered the true meaning of the > above entries. So others > don't jump to the same conclusions I initially made, > here is the meaning of > the > entries. > > In the 17th and 18th century Mrs. (a contraction of > Mistress) was a prefix > used > ONLY for unmarried ladies or girls. It was > equivalent to the modern use of > MISS but was applied only to gentlewomen, that is to > say women of gentry > class. > > The Oxford dictionary says about the use of Mrs: > > " Originally distinctive of a gentlewomen, the use > of the prefix has > gradually extended downwards; at the present time, > every married woman who > has no superior title is styled 'Mrs.' even though > her husband is of so > humble a > position as not ordinarily to be referred to as > 'Mr.'. . . " > > The use of Mr. indicates gentry status for the men. > Mr places them at the > social level immediately below a titled individual > and generally tells you > they were not titled -- but I understand that Mr > could be applied to a knight. > > The consensus from my queries is that John Hutchins, > the author of the > "History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset" > extracted the above three > marriage entries and placed them in an isolated > grouping simply to emphasize > that the families were prominent. A distinction > that escapes us today. > > The actual individual parish marriage entries would > have been written over > time by (probably) the rector(s). In their use of > Mr. and Mrs. the rectors > were > saying about each couple that they were of gentry > class and that the women > were never previously married. This intended > information about the martial > status of the women is in stark contrast to our > modern times. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

The 1885 Gaines County Census of the Choctaw Nation has been added to the Choctaw-Web.com site. http://www.choctaw-web.com/gaines.htm <A HREF="http://www.choctaw-web.com/gaines.htm">Click here: GAINES </A> Choctaw-Web now includes 1885 Choctaw Nation Census for counties of ATOKA , BLUE , BOKTOLO, CEDAR, EAGLE, JACKS FORK, TOWSON, WADE, KIAMITIA, SAN BOIS, SUGAR LOAF, SKULLYVILLE, TOBUCKSY; plus 1929 Restricted Census. Census for Nashoba and Red River Counties are in the works. If you find your ancestors on these census rolls, please thank Arlene Johnson at [email protected] for transcribing the 700-plus names; and Sharron Jo Ashton at [email protected], for loaning the microfilm http://www.choctaw-web.com/census.htm Choctaw-web.com is proudly sponsored by Many Cats Trading Co. See the unusual and unique handmade jewelry at www.barkingwaters.com Rusty Lang, Yellowfeather Choctaw-Web owner --- [email protected] wrote: > ATTACHMENT part 1 message/rfc822 > > IT-INDIAN-D Digest Volume 01 : Issue 1 > > Today's Topics: > #1 [IT-INDIAN] Fwd: Reminder - Book s > [[email protected]] > #2 [IT-INDIAN] THE USAGE OF MRS. WAY > [[email protected]] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from IT-INDIAN-D, send a message to > > [email protected] > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, > but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, > too. > > To contact the IT-INDIAN-D list administrator, send > mail to > [email protected] > > ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:48:59 EST > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [IT-INDIAN] Fwd: Reminder - Book sale ends > Feb 28 > > --part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > In a message dated 2/12/01 11:53:31 AM, [email protected] > writes: > > << Folks - Just a reminder - My prepow-wow book > sale ends at the end of > February. > Terms were 15% off the cover price, with free > shipping for orders over $50. A > list of the books, all Indian related, over 300 > titles, was e-mailed out to > many > of you. If you need the list or more info, please > let me know. > > Jim Landmesser -- Indian Creek Trading > Post > 3165 Shiloh Road-SW, Corydon, IN > 47112 > \/ URL= http://members.aye.net/~ictp > E-mail= [email protected] > I /\ C Phone: 812-738-1258 > //\\ Am.Indian/Nat.Am Music, Books, Craft > Supplies > <A HREF="http://members.aye.net/~ictp"> Click here > for Website</A> >> > > > --part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary > Content-Type: message/rfc822 > Content-Disposition: inline > > Return-Path: <[email protected]> > Received: from rly-yb01.mx.aol.com > (rly-yb01.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.1]) by > air-yb03.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Mon, > 12 Feb 2001 14:53:31 -0500 > Received: from phoenix.aye.net (phoenixint2.aye.net > [198.7.192.21]) by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) > with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:53:26 1900 > Received: (qmail 13009 invoked from network); 12 Feb > 2001 19:51:40 -0000 > Received: from dial2-192.aye.net (HELO ictp) > (198.7.196.192) > by phoenix.aye.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:51:40 > -0000 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > From: "Jim Landmesser" <[email protected]> > To: "NDN BOOK FAN" <[email protected]> > Subject: Reminder - Book sale ends Feb 28 > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:50:51 -0500 > Organization: Indian Creek Trading Post - Corydon IN > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="Windows-1252" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE > V5.00.2919.6600 > > Folks - Just a reminder - My prepow-wow book sale > ends at the end of February. > Terms were 15% off the cover price, with free > shipping for orders over $50. A > list of the books, all Indian related, over 300 > titles, was e-mailed out to many > of you. If you need the list or more info, please > let me know. > > Jim Landmesser -- Indian Creek Trading > Post > 3165 Shiloh Road-SW, Corydon, IN > 47112 > \/ URL= http://members.aye.net/~ictp > E-mail= [email protected] > I /\ C Phone: 812-738-1258 > //\\ Am.Indian/Nat.Am Music, Books, Craft > Supplies > <A HREF="http://members.aye.net/~ictp"> Click here > for Website</A> > > > --part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary-- > > ______________________________ > ATTACHMENT part 3 message/rfc822 > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:15:06 EST > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [IT-INDIAN] THE USAGE OF MRS. WAY BACK WHEN > > Hi All: > > I found the below of a great deal of interest and > asked the poster if I could > send it on as she has the copyright on rootsweb, by > sending it in. She said > to go for it! > > This will explain, in some cases, why we researchers > have not been able to > find the first husband of an old female relative. > > =============== > > Last week I noted the following entries in the > "History and Antiquities of the > County of Dorset."The three entries are found > together in Vol. II, on p. 20 > and are placed in an isolated listing with the title > "The Register of > Marriages begins 1539." > > These are transcripts from the Piddlehinton, Dorset > marriage register. The > entries are: > > Mr. Robert Swain and Mrs. Eleanor Churchill - 1656 > (year) > Mr. Henry Churchill and Mrs. Hannah Galler - 1661 > Mr. Henry Churchill and Mrs. Elizabeth Cheek - 1682 > > I have seen the Henry and Galler/Cheek marriages > from other sources but > without the use of Mr. for Henry. I had always > assumed that the use of Mrs. > simply indicated that Henry had married widows. > However, I knew that THIS > Eleanor Churchill WAS unmarried, so the use of > Mistress for Eleanor could not > be an > indicator of her marital status. > > After a bit of research and confirming queries from > individuals knowledgeable > on the subject, I discovered the true meaning of the > above entries. So others > don't jump to the same conclusions I initially made, > here is the meaning of > the > entries. > > In the 17th and 18th century Mrs. (a contraction of > Mistress) was a prefix > used > ONLY for unmarried ladies or girls. It was > equivalent to the modern use of > MISS but was applied only to gentlewomen, that is to > say women of gentry > class. > > The Oxford dictionary says about the use of Mrs: > > " Originally distinctive of a gentlewomen, the use > of the prefix has > gradually extended downwards; at the present time, > every married woman who > has no superior title is styled 'Mrs.' even though > her husband is of so > humble a > position as not ordinarily to be referred to as > 'Mr.'. . . " > > The use of Mr. indicates gentry status for the men. > Mr places them at the > social level immediately below a titled individual > and generally tells you > they were not titled -- but I understand that Mr > could be applied to a knight. > > The consensus from my queries is that John Hutchins, > the author of the > "History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset" > extracted the above three > marriage entries and placed them in an isolated > grouping simply to emphasize > that the families were prominent. A distinction > that escapes us today. > > The actual individual parish marriage entries would > have been written over > time by (probably) the rector(s). In their use of > Mr. and Mrs. the rectors > were > saying about each couple that they were of gentry > class and that the women > were never previously married. This intended > information about the martial > status of the women is in stark contrast to our > modern times. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Hi all and WELCOME: I'm thrilled to see the two new lists growing so much in only two days! Since we do have more than enough people to start introductions and queries and/or brick walls, please give forth and hopefully there will be someone on this lists with at least a clue for you. Also, this list is yours to enjoy and I want it to be relaxed. One thing I do ask is that all show respect to others. Just remember, we all want to be treated with respect and so must remember to do the same to others. Teasing is allowed in your genealogy postings. But, lets try to keep away from the one liners. A thank you to someone for posting information you can use should be sent to that person. If you slip and send it to the list people know how to use "delete" and should do so rather than complain. Also, and I'm one of them people <BFG>, let's try to keep the subject line updated to what is in the context of emails. Sit back, put your feet up and enjoy friends! Best, your friend, Sandi Carter If you find any web sites you think would be of interest to the group please post them.

--part1_95.6dc09a1.27bb1735_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/13/01 2:08:31 PM, [email protected] writes: << I DO NOT KNOW WHICH OF THESE I'M SUPPOSED TO BE ON,BUT IF D STANDS FOR DEAD I'M ON THE RIGHT ONE. MY GREAT GRANDMOTHER WAS ANNA BELL BOGLE. SHE MARRIED i'm not for sure if name spelled with an a or an e ALEXANDER DANGERFIELD WILSON. BOTH DIED IN 1885 AND ARE BURIED IN BOGGY DEPOT,BUT I CANNOT FIND A SINGLE THING TO DOCUMENT THIS. ALL I HAVE IS MY MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER'S WORD.MY GRANDMOTHER MINNIE OLA WILSON WAS BORN SEPT.3,1876 IN MANNSVILLE,I.T.SHE DIED JAN.15,1943 DEVOL,COTTON CO. OK. I DO HAVE DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS.I WOULD DESPERATELY LIKE TO DOCUMENTANNA BELL BOGLE'S PARENTS AND ALEXANDER'S ALSO.IF I'VE POSTED TIH WRONG SORRY. BUT LET ME KNOW MINNIE LOU WATSON WHITTINGTON >> --part1_95.6dc09a1.27bb1735_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (rly-yd05.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.5]) by air-yd04.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:08:31 -0500 Received: from lists2.rootsweb.com (lists2.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.32]) by rly-yd05.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:08:08 -0500 Received: (from [email protected]) by lists2.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1DM84427425 for [email protected]; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:08:04 -0800 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:08:04 -0800 X-From_: [email protected] Tue Feb 13 14:08:04 2001 Received: from newmail.rootsweb.com (newmail.rootsweb.com [63.92.80.103]) by lists2.rootsweb.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f1DM84U27408 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:08:04 -0800 Received: from ns4.pldi.net (ns4.pldi.net [208.223.196.131]) by newmail.rootsweb.com (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f1DM7tb08603 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:07:55 -0800 Received: (qmail 2759 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 22:08:02 -0000 Received: from 63-71-44-80.du.pldi.net (HELO default) (63.71.44.80) by ns4.pldi.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 22:08:02 -0000 Message-ID: <[email protected]> From: "Kenneth Whittington" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: I DON'T KNOW WHAT D OR L STANDS FOR Old-Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:15:33 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Diagnostic: Unprocessed X-Envelope-To: IT-INDIAN-D-request I DO NOT KNOW WHICH OF THESE I'M SUPPOSED TO BE ON,BUT IF D STANDS FOR DEAD I'M ON THE RIGHT ONE. MY GREAT GRANDMOTHER WAS ANNA BELL BOGLE. SHE MARRIED i'm not for sure if name spelled with an a or an e ALEXANDER DANGERFIELD WILSON. BOTH DIED IN 1885 AND ARE BURIED IN BOGGY DEPOT,BUT I CANNOT FIND A SINGLE THING TO DOCUMENT THIS. ALL I HAVE IS MY MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER'S WORD.MY GRANDMOTHER MINNIE OLA WILSON WAS BORN SEPT.3,1876 IN MANNSVILLE,I.T.SHE DIED JAN.15,1943 DEVOL,COTTON CO. OK. I DO HAVE DOCUMENTATION FOR THIS.I WOULD DESPERATELY LIKE TO DOCUMENTANNA BELL BOGLE'S PARENTS AND ALEXANDER'S ALSO.IF I'VE POSTED TIH WRONG SORRY. BUT LET ME KNOW MINNIE LOU WATSON WHITTINGTON --part1_95.6dc09a1.27bb1735_boundary--

Hi All: I found the below of a great deal of interest and asked the poster if I could send it on as she has the copyright on rootsweb, by sending it in. She said to go for it! This will explain, in some cases, why we researchers have not been able to find the first husband of an old female relative. =============== Last week I noted the following entries in the "History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset."The three entries are found together in Vol. II, on p. 20 and are placed in an isolated listing with the title "The Register of Marriages begins 1539." These are transcripts from the Piddlehinton, Dorset marriage register. The entries are: Mr. Robert Swain and Mrs. Eleanor Churchill - 1656 (year) Mr. Henry Churchill and Mrs. Hannah Galler - 1661 Mr. Henry Churchill and Mrs. Elizabeth Cheek - 1682 I have seen the Henry and Galler/Cheek marriages from other sources but without the use of Mr. for Henry. I had always assumed that the use of Mrs. simply indicated that Henry had married widows. However, I knew that THIS Eleanor Churchill WAS unmarried, so the use of Mistress for Eleanor could not be an indicator of her marital status. After a bit of research and confirming queries from individuals knowledgeable on the subject, I discovered the true meaning of the above entries. So others don't jump to the same conclusions I initially made, here is the meaning of the entries. In the 17th and 18th century Mrs. (a contraction of Mistress) was a prefix used ONLY for unmarried ladies or girls. It was equivalent to the modern use of MISS but was applied only to gentlewomen, that is to say women of gentry class. The Oxford dictionary says about the use of Mrs: " Originally distinctive of a gentlewomen, the use of the prefix has gradually extended downwards; at the present time, every married woman who has no superior title is styled 'Mrs.' even though her husband is of so humble a position as not ordinarily to be referred to as 'Mr.'. . . " The use of Mr. indicates gentry status for the men. Mr places them at the social level immediately below a titled individual and generally tells you they were not titled -- but I understand that Mr could be applied to a knight. The consensus from my queries is that John Hutchins, the author of the "History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset" extracted the above three marriage entries and placed them in an isolated grouping simply to emphasize that the families were prominent. A distinction that escapes us today. The actual individual parish marriage entries would have been written over time by (probably) the rector(s). In their use of Mr. and Mrs. the rectors were saying about each couple that they were of gentry class and that the women were never previously married. This intended information about the martial status of the women is in stark contrast to our modern times.

--part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/12/01 11:53:31 AM, [email protected] writes: << Folks - Just a reminder - My prepow-wow book sale ends at the end of February. Terms were 15% off the cover price, with free shipping for orders over $50. A list of the books, all Indian related, over 300 titles, was e-mailed out to many of you. If you need the list or more info, please let me know. Jim Landmesser -- Indian Creek Trading Post 3165 Shiloh Road-SW, Corydon, IN 47112 \/ URL= http://members.aye.net/~ictp E-mail= [email protected] I /\ C Phone: 812-738-1258 //\\ Am.Indian/Nat.Am Music, Books, Craft Supplies <A HREF="http://members.aye.net/~ictp"> Click here for Website</A> >> --part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <[email protected]> Received: from rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (rly-yb01.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.1]) by air-yb03.mail.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:53:31 -0500 Received: from phoenix.aye.net (phoenixint2.aye.net [198.7.192.21]) by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.21) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:53:26 1900 Received: (qmail 13009 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:51:40 -0000 Received: from dial2-192.aye.net (HELO ictp) (198.7.196.192) by phoenix.aye.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:51:40 -0000 Message-ID: <[email protected]> From: "Jim Landmesser" <[email protected]> To: "NDN BOOK FAN" <[email protected]> Subject: Reminder - Book sale ends Feb 28 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:50:51 -0500 Organization: Indian Creek Trading Post - Corydon IN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Folks - Just a reminder - My prepow-wow book sale ends at the end of February. Terms were 15% off the cover price, with free shipping for orders over $50. A list of the books, all Indian related, over 300 titles, was e-mailed out to many of you. If you need the list or more info, please let me know. Jim Landmesser -- Indian Creek Trading Post 3165 Shiloh Road-SW, Corydon, IN 47112 \/ URL= http://members.aye.net/~ictp E-mail= [email protected] I /\ C Phone: 812-738-1258 //\\ Am.Indian/Nat.Am Music, Books, Craft Supplies <A HREF="http://members.aye.net/~ictp"> Click here for Website</A> --part1_70.7c6f0e5.27b9b44b_boundary--

Hi All, Hope someone knows more about this fellow than I do. He was my great-grandfather. Louis Armstrong Ford - Born 29 Nov 1875 Married Leona (Lee) Wilson - About 1908 Died in Albuquerque, NM - 30 March 1945 Thanks for the help ahead of time. Redonna Guthrie

Hi, Do you have Guthrie names on your Chickasaw line? We have Jesse James Guthrie born 29 Sept 1889 in Chicasaw County, Indian Territory, OK. His wife was Rennie/Renna Ross. Jesse's parents wereJames Doake Guthrie born 1868 in Dallas, TX or in Tenn and his mom was Hattie L. Scruggs. Her death certificate says she was born on 10 Jan 1869 in Joplin Jasper County, Missouri. No parents listed. Hattie dead ends here.Jesse's grandparents were Samuel William Guthrieborn 1639 in Tennessee and Margaret Carr born 1932? Jusat wondered if our brick walls might meet in a corner somewhere. Thanks. Redonna Guthrie [email protected] wrote: > Hi All: > > Since there are some on the list looking for Johnsons, below is one of my > Johnson family lines. The other Johnson line is Chickasaw if anyone is > interested in viewing it. > > Best, Sandi Carter > > Descendants of James Burr Johnson > > 1 James Burr Johnson Abt 1795 - > . +Nancy Parish Abt 1807 - Abt 1849 > ........ 2 Allen Johnson Abt 1826 - Abt 1860 > ........ 2 Wiley Johnson Abt 1828 - Abt 1890 > ............ +Amanda Holloway > ................... 3 Mary J. Johnson 1860 - > ....................... +John Ireton > .............................. 4 David Rufus Ireton Abt 1878 - > .................................. +Minnie A. Johnson > ......................................... 5 Hattie Emeline Ireton 1901 > - > ......................................... 5 Child Ireton 1903 - > .............................. 4 Amanda E. Ireton Abt 1884 - 1902 > .............................. 4 Ben Ireton 1886 - > .............................. 4 Joel C. Ireton 1888 - > .............................. 4 V. George Ireton Abt 1890 - 1899 > .............................. 4 Mamie Ireton 1893 - > .............................. 4 Joseph Francis Ireton 1895 - > .............................. 4 Julia Ireton 1897 - > .............................. 4 Thomas V. Ireton 1900 - > ................... 3 Rebecca Johnson 1863 - > ....................... +Husband Hayes > ................... *2nd Husband of Rebecca Johnson: > ....................... +William Guthrie > .............................. 4 Mary B. Guthrie 1884 - > .............................. 4 John Guthrie 1886 - > .............................. 4 Will Guthrie 1888 - > .............................. 4 Susie Guthrie 1891 - > .............................. 4 V. Charley Guthrie 1895 - > .............................. 4 Edgar Guthrie 1897 - > .............................. 4 Mattie Guthrie 1897 - > .............................. 4 Rachel Guthrie 1902 - > .............................. 4 Gertie Guthrie Abt 1905 - > ................... 3 Julia Johnson 1867 - > ....................... +W. C. Gray > .............................. 4 Effie Pearl Gray 1885 - > .................................. +Gilbert M. Benton > ......................................... 5 Ola May Benton 1902 - > .............................. 4 Millie Gray 1886 - > .................................. +George W. English > ......................................... 5 Willie Cecil English 1905 > - > .............................. 4 Willie M. Gray 1888 - > ................... *2nd Husband of Julia Johnson: > ....................... +Rufus F. Benton > .............................. 4 Rufus Elmer Benton 1893 - > .............................. 4 Osa Benton 1898 - > .............................. 4 Amanda J. Benton 1899 - > ........ *2nd Wife of Wiley Johnson: > ............ +Frances Jones Abt 1848 - 1932 > ................... 3 Ida Belle Johnson 1870 - 1944 > ....................... +Elzey B. Lynn > .............................. 4 Wiley Ulysses Lynn Abt 1886 - > .............................. 4 William Andrew Lynn 1890 - 1966 > .............................. 4 Worlie Lynn Abt 1890 - > .............................. 4 Laura Belle Lynn Abt 1892 - > .............................. 4 Durley Elvie Lynn Abt 1894 - > .............................. 4 Purley Houston Lynn Abt 1896 - > .............................. 4 E. E. Lynn Abt 1898 - > .............................. 4 Ada Winnie Lynn Abt 1901 - > ................... 3 Minnie Lee Johnson 1875 - > ....................... +Charley S. Cummings > .............................. 4 Vera Cummings 1894 - > .............................. 4 Loveda Cummings 1897 - > .............................. 4 Dawes Bixby Cummings 1899 - > .............................. 4 Ermer Vam Cummings 1901 - > ................... *2nd Husband of Minnie Lee Johnson: > ....................... +Henry Lee Lynn > .............................. 4 Adley Vy Lynn 1904 - > ................... 3 Laura Lee Johnson Abt 1879 - > ....................... +George Ernest Lynn > .............................. 4 Tamsberry Lynn 1901 - > .............................. 4 Maggie Tammie Lynn 1902 - > ........ 2 John Johnson 1829 - > ........ 2 Zacariah Johnson Abt 1830 - Bef 1901 > ........ 2 David Rufus Johnson 1830 - Abt 1901 > ............ +Margaret Sterrett Abt 1841 - Abt 1897 > ................... 3 Martha Adaline Johnson Abt 1857 - > ....................... +George Washington Gordon > .............................. 4 John R. Gordon Abt 1873 - > .............................. 4 Imar Gordon Abt 1885 - > .............................. 4 Ethel Gordon Abt 1888 - > .............................. 4 Leo Bennett Gordon Abt 1890 - > .............................. 4 V. Elbert Gordon Abt 1893 - > .............................. 4 George Lawrence Gordon Abt 1895 - > ................... 3 Jane Johnson 1857 - > ....................... +John Brooks > .............................. 4 Isabella Brooks 1871 - > .................................. +Woodson A. Stone > ......................................... 5 Henry Luther Stone 1897 - > ......................................... 5 Albert Monroe Stone 1901 - > ................... 3 Felix Berry Johnson 1875 - > ....................... +Hattie May > .............................. 4 Mollie Johnson Abt 1895 - > .............................. 4 May Johnson Abt 1897 - > .............................. 4 Margaret Johnson Abt 1898 - > ................... 3 Alfred Joe Johnson 1860 - 1929 > ....................... +Jane Fitzpatrick 1871 - 1938 > .............................. 4 Felix Bradley Johnson 1891 - 1965 > .................................. +Ethel A. Dewey > .............................. 4 Ida Johnson 1893 - 1961 > .................................. +James Roger Snell 1890 - 1949 > .............................. 4 Maria Johnson 1895 - > .................................. +Husband Ermel > .............................. 4 William Patrick Johnson 1897 - > .............................. 4 David R. Johnson Abt 1899 - > .............................. 4 Mary Ann Johnson 1901 - > .............................. 4 John A. Johnson > ........ 2 Ethan Johnson Abt 1834 - Abt 1863 > ........ 2 Malvinia Johnson Abt 1836 - > ........ 2 Malvern Johnson Abt 1836 - 1861 > ........ 2 Beaden Johnson Abt 1838 - Abt 1900 > ................... 3 James L. Johnson Abt 1854 - > ....................... +Ludie Howard > ........ 2 Mary Johnson Abt 1840 - > ........ 2 Joseph B. Johnson 1840 - 1914 > ............ +Mary Mona Henley > ................... 3 John S. Johnson 1866 - 1944 > ....................... +Nora Franklin 1876 - > .............................. 4 Rosa Elma Johnson 1895 - > .............................. 4 John Lee Johnson 1898 - > .............................. 4 Sterling Elbert Johnson 1900 - > .............................. 4 Homer Johnson Abt 1902 - > .............................. 4 Ruby Johnson Abt 1904 - > .................................. +Greeley Mar > .............................. *2nd Husband of Ruby Johnson: > .................................. +Coy Henson > ............................. 4 Ruth Johnson Abt 1906 - > .............................. 4 Tillman Johnson Abt 1908 - > .............................. 4 Paul Johnson Abt 1910 - Abt 1960 > .................................. +Anna > .............................. 4 Howard Johnson Abt 1912 - > .............................. 4 Nolan Johnson Abt 1914 - > .............................. 4 David Johnson Abt 1916 - > ................... 3 Joseph E. Johnson 1869 - 1950 > ................... 3 David M. Johnson 1871 - 1947 > ....................... +Pink Johnson > ................... 3 William Johnson 1873 - 1947 > ....................... +Dora Johnson > .............................. 4 Bryan Johnson Abt 1910 - > ................... 3 Monroe Soloman Johnson 1874 - 1910 > ....................... +Blanche Shearin > .............................. 4 Roy Samuel Johnson 1899 - 1967 > .................................. +Beulah Palmer > ......................................... 5 Fay Lee Johnson 1925 - 1984 > ............................................. +Jack Shoemaker > .............................. 4 Everett Robinson Johnson 1906 - 1979 > .................................. +Lorraine Greenwood > ................... 3 Lee M. Johnson 1874 - Aft 1947 > ....................... +Pearl > ................... *2nd Wife of Lee M. Johnson: > ....................... +Marie > ................... 3 Maude Irene Johnson 1877 - Abt 1955 > ....................... +James F. Long > .............................. 4 Evelyn Long 1900 - 1902 > .............................. 4 Wilhema Long Abt 1902 - > .............................. 4 Wineta Long Abt 1904 - > ................... 3 Ada Elizabeth Johnson 1879 - Aft 1947 > ....................... +Hiram Seeds > .............................. 4 Cleatus Seeds 1896 - Abt 1970 > .................................. +Doc Antonelli > .............................. 4 Clyde Seeds 1898 - > .................................. +Martha > .............................. 4 Henry S. Seeds 1901 - Abt 1974 > ................... *2nd Husband of Ada Elizabeth Johnson: > ....................... +Thomas P. Lindsay > .............................. 4 Bernard Lindsay Aft 1910 - > .............................. 4 Darlene Lindsay Aft 1910 - > .............................. 4 Fran Lindsay Aft 1910 - > .................................. +Rufus Holmes > ................... 3 Etta Mary Johnson 1882 - 1950 > ....................... +B. A. Howell > .............................. 4 Leta Mona Howell 1902 - 1987 > .................................. +Edward Claude Brown > ................... *2nd Husband of Etta Mary Johnson: > ....................... +William H. Sartin > .............................. 4 William H. Sartin Abt 1908 - > .................................. +Jo > ................... 3 Annie May Johnson 1883 - Abt 1969 > ....................... +Tom Davis > .............................. 4 Feraby May Davis Abt 1907 - > .............................. 4 Neva Davis Abt 1909 - > ................... *2nd Husband of Annie May Johnson: > ....................... +Edgar C. Blankenbeckler > ................... 3 Everett Gutherie Johnson 1884 - 1943 > ....................... +Minnie Clark > ................... *2nd Wife of Everett Gutherie Johnson: > ....................... +Lola Claudine O'Dell > .............................. 4 Everett T. Johnson 1927 - > .................................. +Georgia M. Rirdt > .............................. 4 Joe T. Johnson 1928 - > .................................. +Anna May Moody > .............................. 4 Virginia Rose Johnson 1929 - > .................................. +Henry Norman > .............................. 4 Jackie Leeroy Johnson 1934 - 1981 > .................................. +Barbara Savage > ................... 3 Samuel Talmadge Johnson 1888 - 1908 > ........ 2 Sarah Johnson Abt 1844 - > ........ 2 Alfred Johnson Abt 1846 - 1867 > ........ 2 William Johnson Abt 1847 - > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

You're hooked. Join the crowd. :) Redonna [email protected] wrote: > In a message dated 5/23/01 5:06:21 PM, [email protected] writes: > > << I read them as he publishes. His work is so interesting. We pass them > through the family too. :-) >> > > Sue: > > I feel like Tony's main characters are real. Hated it when Emma Leaphorn > died and Joe retired. But am glad to see Joe and Jim Chee working together > now. Am I hooked, or what? > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com