Greetings All, I have also heard that a suicide had a stake driven through the heart before burial. Regards, Anne Vinnicombe ======================================== Message Received: May 16 2008, 04:08 AM From: "Alison Baker" To: "Isle of Wight Mailing List" Cc: Subject: Re: [IoW] Sep 1867 Snippet Hi, In the middle of the 19th century suicide was still considered a criminal act. In fact it didn't become illegal until 1961. Suicide was also considered by some to be an act of evil, and usually the deceased person had been driven by Satan to perform the act on themselves. Suicides were buried quickly and usually in unconsecrated ground. Quite often at a crossroads as it was believed that the crossroads would help diffuse the evil influence of the body in different directions, making it less harmful to the living. I couldn't find a reference to why the burial was done after midnight, but I think it was actually a law. The following reference from a book by Clare Gittings on Google books mentions the law: "........must have been one of the last carried out before the Act was passed allowing suicides to be buried in the churchyard between the hours of nine and twelve at night......." Some suicides were also buried within the churchyards, but in the northern corners where they also buried unbaptised infants etc. I think the speediness of the burial was probably a spiritual thing. They may have been scared of the body and thought it evil? I'm not sure. It's interesting though. Not much comes up on Google about it. Hope this helps. Cheers, Alison Baker, Sunny Melbourne, Australia. Researching on the IOW: ATTRILL, BOURNE, PAIN Peter & Angela McMurtry wrote: > Can anyone tell me why suicide victims had to be buried so quickly and after midnight? > > ************************************** You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I live in a parish just outside of Southampton on the mainland. There is a spot on the corner of our parish boundary which is known as Woolls Grave. Tradition has it that a man named Wooll hung himself in the neighbouring parish and he was buried on the parish boundary with a stake through his heart. Unfortunately there is no documentation for this as far as I know, but it must have taken place at least 250 years ago as the place is marked as Woolls Grave on an 18th century map. Sandra ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: "Alison Baker" <[email protected]>; "Isle of Wight Mailing List" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 4:00 PM Subject: Re: [IoW] Sep 1867 Snippet > Greetings All, > I have also heard that a suicide had a stake driven > through the heart before burial. > Regards, > Anne Vinnicombe > > > > > > ======================================== > Message Received: May 16 2008, 04:08 AM > From: "Alison Baker" > To: "Isle of Wight Mailing List" > Cc: > Subject: Re: [IoW] Sep 1867 Snippet > > Hi, > > In the middle of the 19th century suicide was still considered a criminal > act. In fact it > didn't become illegal until 1961. Suicide was also considered by some to > be an act of > evil, and usually the deceased person had been driven by Satan to perform > the act on > themselves. Suicides were buried quickly and usually in unconsecrated > ground. Quite > often at a crossroads as it was believed that the crossroads would help > diffuse the evil > influence of the body in different directions, making it less harmful to > the living. > > I couldn't find a reference to why the burial was done after midnight, but > I think it was > actually a law. The following reference from a book by Clare Gittings on > Google books > mentions the law: > > "........must have been one of the last carried out before the Act was > passed allowing > suicides to be buried in the churchyard between the hours of nine and > twelve at night......." > > Some suicides were also buried within the churchyards, but in the northern > corners where > they also buried unbaptised infants etc. > > I think the speediness of the burial was probably a spiritual thing. They > may have been > scared of the body and thought it evil? I'm not sure. It's interesting > though. Not much > comes up on Google about it. > > Hope this helps. > Cheers, > Alison Baker, > Sunny Melbourne, Australia. > Researching on the IOW: ATTRILL, BOURNE, PAIN > > Peter & Angela McMurtry wrote: >> Can anyone tell me why suicide victims had to be buried so quickly and >> after midnight? >> >> > > ************************************** > You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ************************************** > You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1445 - Release Date: 15/05/2008 19:25

Hi Beki, Those 3 names are of women that married into the YELF family. Anne MIDLANE was born Brading IOW 1735,the daughter of James MIDLANE and Grace LAKE. She married James YELF son of Robert YELF and Elizabeth BOOKER July 22nd 1764 They are both buried at Newport, Anne died 1813 and James in 1807. Elizabeth GROVES married John YELF (brother of James) in Newport 1805. While there seems to be a question as to which John YELF he is??(note on document) The "note" on Elizabeth says" marr Newport 1805 burr Newport age 73 17th Oct 1834,she was a maid with Eliz WALLBRIDGE at Mr ROT(L)STONE'S,South Ventnor.Converted at same time". As the following entry is for Robert YELF's wife Sophia DENTON and as he was a Wesleyan preacher and Elizabeth WALLBRIDGE was known as the "Dairyman's Daughter" I am assuming that the conversion was to that church!!. Sophia DENTON born 1784-died 1870 Carrisbrooke(I have another notation that says Calbourne dist IOW but that could be her death dist.in 1870),married Robert YELF on June 8th 1832 he was bapt.Newport 1778, School Master and Wesleyan Preacher and died in 1855. Freshwater IOW "in the fifties,lived in Church at Freshwater" To date I have never found any children for this couple but they could have had a family!! Carole. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beki" <[email protected]> To: "'Carole Cumber'" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 4:53 AM Subject: RE: [IoW] Island names.. > Hi Carole > > I've spotted three surnames that link into both my parent's and my > husband's > families. They are MIDLANE, GROVES, and DENTON. I haven't got much on the > first two but do have some photos of DENTON's as they seem to have come > from > Southampton, Isle of Wight and Channel Islands which my mum's cousin sent > me > a few years back. > > The main surnames I'm researching are ANDREWS, DENTON, HASTE, > LALE/LEAL/LEALE, PRICE, RENOUF, RICHARDS, TUNGATE. Then there's all the > married-ins families..... > > I have just found out that the RICHARDS are linked to both my fathers' > tree > and my husbands' but I have to go back a little further to prove the > LALE/LEAL/LEALE link as I have different families from the same village in > both trees but with the same surname. If any of the DENTON's appear in > both > our trees I am more than happy to email you copies of the photos that I > have > of them. > > I look forward to hearing from you. > > Beki Lale IOWFHS Member 1390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Carole Cumber > Sent: 15 May 2008 19:30 > To: Isle of Wight > Subject: [IoW] Island names.. > > Several years ago I received a copy of a "YELF family tree" from an > elderly > lady in New Zealand who was trying to find her families connection to > Susannah HENTON and Thomas YELF m. 1816. She had a researcher make it up > for > > her back in the 1980's when on a visit to the IOW. As this lady was in her > 80's when she contacted me and as I have not heard from her for several > years despite my letters to her, I assume that she has passed away or is > in > a nursing home. > I have checked out most of the connections and the ones I have checked > correspond with what I have in my research files. Many of the surnames and > dates etc:of people who married into the family are given and I am > wondering > > if a list of these names may be helpful to other listers as well as > helping > me find links that can be confirmed!. > The hand written "tree" is a bit difficult to read but so far I have a > list > containing the following surnames. If anyone would like me to give the > details on any of the names included please let me know, > > Carole. IOWFHS # 1966 > > BOOKER > HOLT > WALLBRIDGE > MIDLAND/MIDLANE > KING > ASHWOOD > HENTON > ATKEY > GOODALL > WAVELL > GROVES > WHEELER > DENTON > TRAFALGAR GRAPES > STEAN > MEW > SAVELL KEATLEY > KELLAWAY > SHOCKLEY > BEATER > CARD > > > > ************************************** > You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1434 - Release Date: > 5/15/2008 7:24 AM > >

Hi, In the middle of the 19th century suicide was still considered a criminal act. In fact it didn't become illegal until 1961. Suicide was also considered by some to be an act of evil, and usually the deceased person had been driven by Satan to perform the act on themselves. Suicides were buried quickly and usually in unconsecrated ground. Quite often at a crossroads as it was believed that the crossroads would help diffuse the evil influence of the body in different directions, making it less harmful to the living. I couldn't find a reference to why the burial was done after midnight, but I think it was actually a law. The following reference from a book by Clare Gittings on Google books mentions the law: "........must have been one of the last carried out before the Act was passed allowing suicides to be buried in the churchyard between the hours of nine and twelve at night......." Some suicides were also buried within the churchyards, but in the northern corners where they also buried unbaptised infants etc. I think the speediness of the burial was probably a spiritual thing. They may have been scared of the body and thought it evil? I'm not sure. It's interesting though. Not much comes up on Google about it. Hope this helps. Cheers, Alison Baker, Sunny Melbourne, Australia. Researching on the IOW: ATTRILL, BOURNE, PAIN Peter & Angela McMurtry wrote: > Can anyone tell me why suicide victims had to be buried so quickly and after midnight? > >

Evelyn I can't be sure but would suggest "pock" in this sense means a "pocket" of land. Chipperwell is an old brick-making site and is located somewhere along Burnt House Lane (between Shide and Downend). Its given as a location on the Old-Maps site but I cannot actually locate it on the large map. Presumably the amounts were tithes or some similar tax in the 17th C which Widow Smith paid because she owned these properties. Hope that helps Jon Baker -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Evelyn Smith Sent: 16 May 2008 10:43 To: [email protected] Subject: [IoW] FW: Ship Money 1637 Dear Listers, I posted the following a couple of months ago but did not get any interest. I would be grateful if anyone could solve this puzzle for me. I discovered the following clearly written on the Record Office Card Index SMITH, Widow Whippingham Parish For (Shide) Mill & ground 2/4d For a pock called Chipperwell 8d I understand that Ship Money was a tax for warships, but have been unable to discover the meaning of 'pock'? If anyone could tell me the meaning of 'pock' I would be grateful. Thank you, Evelyn ************************************** You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

1842 Henry COLENUT & Henry CORNEY - fined 20s including costs for stealing turnips near Ventnor Frederick ASH - fined 40s for trespassing in pursuit of game, it was his second offence Thomas PAGE, the woodman of Parkhurst, was fined 10s and 5s costs for assaulting Mary HOLBROOK Oh look one of mine (John Brown & his brother was serving on the 'Rose' would have made interesting dinner conversation :-) Thomas GILBERT & William KELLEWAY of Freshwater and John BROWN of Yarmouth, were placed before the bar charged with having on the 31st October, on the high seas, within 100 leagues of the British Coast on board a certain vessel, the cargo thereof, being thrown overboard to prevent seizure. A second account charged with having five casks of spirits containing less than 4 gallons each lashed to the vessels quarter, each pleaded not guilty. John MacBonoky, commander of the 'Rose', revenue cutter, stated that on the Monday last as he was cruising in the Channel, at a quarter past 12 it was reported there was a suspicious sail in view over our bow, we were about 7 leagues of St Catherine's Point; I then bore up and steered S. E to meet her, I disguised the cutter. She made two three tacks towards us to ascertain who we were, we came up within a mile and a half of her, she then suddenly, bore up, and steered south, I steered after her. I saw some tubs attached to the harboured quarter, I fired a shot and she came too, I sent the gunner and boxswain to board it was a fore and rigged vessel, about 12 or 14 tons , half decked her name was the 'Fox' but it is now the 'William Chiverton'. Other witnesses examined corroborated the Captains evidence, all were found guilty and fined 100/ each or if in default 6 months hard labour in prison. Vessel was forfeited. Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. All mail scanned with AVAST 2008 No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

Can anyone tell me why suicide victims had to be buried so quickly and after midnight? Suicide 25 Sep 1867 Henry KIRKBY Age 20, a coachman to Rev Wilson, hanged himself the previous evening He was found in his masters harness room at the Rectory. Rev Wilson often thought the deceased 'was not quite right', and he had heard him say that he would kill himself. He had frequently complained of the cook for telling the Rev Wilson things that were not true. He left papers which stated he destroyed himself owing to the enmity of the cook and stated where he should be buried. He told several people he was going to kill himself , including Amelia CAVE, land lady of the Blacksmith Arms and James MILLER who he ad been drinking with in the Sun Inn on the previous evening neither believed him. 'Verdict ' Strangulation from hanging' Deputy Coroner said that the inquest must stand adjourned till Saturday evening for the purpose of formerly recording the verdict. The law required in such a case , burial of the body without religious ceremony in the churchyard, within a given time after midnight, and within 24 hours after recording a verdict. They could hardly comply with the law that night, and hence the adjournment. Henry JAMES of Newbridge - charged with trespassing in pursuit of game 5s and costs or 14 days in prison with hard labour I thought this was quite funny.. Henry RASHLEY and William SPRACK, labourers charged with wilful damage. Complainant was Frank GRINHAM of Palmers Farm. He said he had a daughter who was getting married and had some friends there. About 10pm he heard gun shots outside and 30 mins later another and a few minutes later more, 2 panels of glass were broken in the room where the party was, and he found the two defendants in the front of his garden. SPRACK had the barrel of a gun in his hand and RASHLEY was lying down amongst the shrubs. His wife told them to go away and they both left. No one offered to pay for the damages. William WOOLDRIGE, labourer and witness - I heard a gun and saw the two defendants outside. Frank SHEATH said he heard reports of 2 guns about half past eleven and 2 panes of glass were broken. He saw the flash of gun in the room. He had previously taken out some beer, but he did not ask them to fire off a round on account of the wedding. Rashley discharged, SPRACK fined 1s for the offence and 10s for the damages . Paid. Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. All mail scanned with AVAST 2008 No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

In a magazine here in OZ yesterday where was a lovely old photo taken in the late 1800's of a readers great great grandparents.......they had 6 sets of twins. One set died but all the others have gone on to have their own twins. The wife must have dreaded falling pregnant, wonder if they held the Guinness Book Of Records for the most number of multiple births. Would be a hard act to follow. Angela

This page on Google doesn't actually tell you why the burial had to be after midnight but it does give some interesting information about suicide burials in that time period. This custom in Scotland might have something to do with the burial custom of burying after midnight on unconsequated land. This page also contains some very interesting birth, marriage and death customs in Scotland that made very interesting reading so I am posting the addy here for you all to look at. http://www.fife.50megs.com/birth-customs.htm Here is the paragraph about the suicidal burial. Newburgh Towards the end of the last century the corpse of a suicide had to be lifted over the walls of the churchyard in Newburgh; the superstitious belief being that if it was permitted to enter by the gate, the next child that was carried to the Church for baptism would end its days by self-destruction. This superstition died out by slow degrees. Scarcely fifty years ago, two old women remembering what they had seen in their youth, watched with eager curiosity the funeral procession of a suicide in Newburgh, as it approached the churchyard porch, where a very slight accidental stoppage took place. Imagining that the old superstitious practice was to be put in force, they immediately set off to see the end, exclaiming, “They’re no gaun to let her in yet”; but they had not run many paces when the whole procession disappeared within the churchyard gate, and this form of superstition was for ever extinguished amongst us. Enjoy Judi in Tacoma, WA, USA From: "Peter & Angela McMurtry" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 09:54:29 +1000 Subject: [IoW] Sep 1867 Snippet Can anyone tell me why suicide victims had to be buried so quickly and after midnight ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Judi McRae, a Proud Canadian living in the Glorious Pacific Northwest (Tacoma,WA, USA) Please NOTE*** I am NOT researching the McRae name. Nothing attached to this letter is from me unless specifically mentioned in the body of the letter. FIGHT SPAMMERS: Please remove all previous addressees before forwarding this material. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .

Hello Everyone, I am prompted to write today because I see that the Island is having a Walking Festival so I suppose you will all be out on the Mill Trail Town Walk soon! I have just discovered that our g.g.grandfather, John Adams, was a miller at "Westminster" in Newport in 1841 and great grandfather, Henry, was there too as a baby of 3 months. I see that the Westminster Mill was a fulling mill so I guess he wasn't working there - perhaps he was at the Home Mill. Several of his neighbours were millers also. In 1851 he was a miller and maltster and the address was House & Mill, Hearn St - could this be the same mill, I wonder? Our 3xgreat grandfather was also a miller and baker in Town Lane. So, if anyone is passing any of these sites do give them a nod from me. And for Saturday's FA Cup Final - GO POMPEY!!! Good luck ............. Ros.

Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle etc (Portsmouth, England), Saturday, October 20, 1860 . >From Winchester Sessions Emma Elkins, charged with stealing boots, at Carisbrooke; As a point of interest wonder how much a pair of boots cost & how much he had to pay for the company of Emma ? ------------------------------------------------------- 25 Aug 1860 Emma ELKINS , a common prostitute charged with robbing an elderly man names Jacob DENNES resisiding at Rookley, of a pair of boots, a joint of mutton , a piece of bacon and 2 handkerchiefs. It appeared by the evidence of the prosecutor, that he came in to town at 4pm and made his purchased, and that having had a bint of beer at one place, and another at some other place, besides other liquids at other places, the precise selection of which he could not describe, but at each it appears the prisoner was present, he found himself at 2am in the morning near the old burying ground, on his way home, with the prisoner hanging on to one of his arms and the two bundles hanging on to the other. Her loving endearments caused him to deposit the latter on the ground at his feet. Then the prisoner gave the alarm that a soldier was coming and speedily decamped, the old man looking about for his bundles found them to his great astonishment that they had vanished with the prisoner, who was ! apprehended the next morning in a common brothel in Cosham St, his boots were found but not one ounce of the eatables could be discovered. Committed to the quarter sessions Best wishes Ann

Hi Ross I don't know if it would help, or if you already have a copy, but the Home Mill appears on the very edge of the Newport 1903 map produced by 'Alan Godfrey Maps' ( http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/acatalog/ ) If you haven't got a copy, then let me know and I'll scan the relevant bit and send it off list. There doesn't appear to be a mill on Hearn St (in 1903) it is lined with terrace houses, which I would guess are the same ones that are there today (looking at Google Earth). The area on the corner, where there is now a car park is also clear in 1903, so I suppose this could have been a mill at one time, although it's not near to any mill stream. Hoem Mill appears to be bounded by Westminster Lane and Petticoat Lane. Don't know if this will help at all :-) Kate -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ros Fletcher Sent: 15 May 2008 13:49 To: IOW list; Henry Adams Subject: [IoW] Mill Trail Hello Everyone, I am prompted to write today because I see that the Island is having a Walking Festival so I suppose you will all be out on the Mill Trail Town Walk soon! I have just discovered that our g.g.grandfather, John Adams, was a miller at "Westminster" in Newport in 1841 and great grandfather, Henry, was there too as a baby of 3 months. I see that the Westminster Mill was a fulling mill so I guess he wasn't working there - perhaps he was at the Home Mill. Several of his neighbours were millers also. In 1851 he was a miller and maltster and the address was House & Mill, Hearn St - could this be the same mill, I wonder? Our 3xgreat grandfather was also a miller and baker in Town Lane. So, if anyone is passing any of these sites do give them a nod from me. And for Saturday's FA Cup Final - GO POMPEY!!! Good luck ............. Ros. ************************************** You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: [email protected] ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HO107/1922 Taunton St.Mary, Som. CENSUS 9 Page 12/F684 Henry BERKELEY, visitor, 51, Pipe Maker, b. Isle of Wight head: Mary Brawley, Grocer

Several years ago I received a copy of a "YELF family tree" from an elderly lady in New Zealand who was trying to find her families connection to Susannah HENTON and Thomas YELF m. 1816. She had a researcher make it up for her back in the 1980's when on a visit to the IOW. As this lady was in her 80's when she contacted me and as I have not heard from her for several years despite my letters to her, I assume that she has passed away or is in a nursing home. I have checked out most of the connections and the ones I have checked correspond with what I have in my research files. Many of the surnames and dates etc:of people who married into the family are given and I am wondering if a list of these names may be helpful to other listers as well as helping me find links that can be confirmed!. The hand written "tree" is a bit difficult to read but so far I have a list containing the following surnames. If anyone would like me to give the details on any of the names included please let me know, Carole. IOWFHS # 1966 BOOKER HOLT WALLBRIDGE MIDLAND/MIDLANE KING ASHWOOD HENTON ATKEY GOODALL WAVELL GROVES WHEELER DENTON TRAFALGAR GRAPES STEAN MEW SAVELL KEATLEY KELLAWAY SHOCKLEY BEATER CARD

Hi, I have a copy from the newspaper,if you would like me to send it. Best wishes Ann ----- Original Message ----- From: "pauline" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:51 PM Subject: [IoW] (no subject) > Sorry to be ignorant, where would I read further reports on the Whitworth > family and the other families mentioned in the snippets? > > > > Kind regards > > Pauline > > > ************************************** > You can contact the Isle of Wight List Administrator by emailing: > [email protected] > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Sorry to be ignorant, where would I read further reports on the Whitworth family and the other families mentioned in the snippets? Kind regards Pauline

HO107/1923 Taunton St.James, Som. CENSUS 5 Page 46/F132 Mary WEAVER, widow, 35, Fund Holder, b. Isle of Wight Ellen, 10, scholar at home, b. Barnstaple Eliza, 8, do do John, 6, do do George, 4, do Mary Ann, 2, do Jane Huxtable, svt, 22, House Servant, b. Devon

Thought this was an interesting site......Lesley http://vcp.e2bn.org/search/search_Isle-of-wight.html

I made an error it wasn't a sword which was used but rather a jagged edge razor, although the sword was also found in the room with the bodies. There does appear to be another child who was not home on that night -wonder what happened to him / her. One of the witnesses called was Captain John DAISH the staff sergeant in the IOW Militia Artillery stationed at Sandown. Angela Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. All mail scanned with AVAST 2008 No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced

Found the deaths for the WHITWORTH family. I really felt quite ill whilst reading the article yesterday , it was horrendous even by our standards. 1860 Martha Whitworth , no age , Reg Ryde Mary Ann " Age 11 Elizabeth Age 9 Fred Age 5 Ellen Age 4 William Age 2 Robert Age 13 m All hacked to death with a blunt sword by their father who tried to blame an intruder. Angela Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. All mail scanned with AVAST 2008 No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced